From BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8046778.stm

Looks encouraging.

I hope so, that would be good for Japan. I wouldn't trust the Russians too much though, they're very aggressive and unapologetic when it comes to territorial claims. Look at the $hit they're pulling in Georgia...

I hope Japan does get those islands back. And I hope Korea and Japan can co-operate on Dokdo and sharing the economic zone in that region.

I don't understand why Japan is contesting that Island, its the stupidest thing they can do. I think Japan should declare the island of Dokdo to be Korean territory and ask permission for shipping routes near coast of island for truly necessary cases if there are any. That action alone would probably give the Russians more incentives to give back the Northern three islands than any other forms of negotiations.

Not really. The article explains that Japan is basically buying the islands from Russia if they are able to succeed.

fu-k RUSSIANS

In any event, some form of agreement with the Russians have to be made concerning the Volcanic Island chain to the North. Like Hawaii, the Southern Islands will sink into the sea to be replace by newer ones created in the North.

Outright buying/selling land is intolerable to anyone today, no matter if you're buying or selling. More likely case is that Japan will have a massive economic deal that is highly favorable to Russia. The article doesn't mention what technologies Japan is transferring. I'm curious what Russia might be looking for?

Probably high tech computer oriented electronics.

After all, have ya heard about any russian Hard Drives? Russian DDR3?

Map of the disputed islands



Japan claims Iturup, Shikotan, Habomai rocks and Kunashir.

In 1950's there was almost a done deal between the Soviets and Japan to return the rocks and Shikotan island to Japan but US got involved and deal fell through.

There are no Japanese left on those island. And they really should belong to the Ainu people who lived there before the Russians or Japanese.

This on the dispute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuril_Islands_dispute

Russian article from last year says:

It's not like they can just go ahead and build a competitive industry, just because you hand over some blueprints. Those techs are not useful in Russian hands.

Actually I don't know what Russia is commercially competitive in?? (well maybe spacelift and nuclear power) No doubt they could use new techs for their military, but I can't think of any tech transfers that can make a big economic difference.

Russia really don't need those Islands, Russia is huge. I think by the time Okinawa sinks into the sea, Japan would have world opinion on her side anyway.


The Islands mean nothing to the Russians but are vital in the long term existence of the Nation of Japan. Maybe an agreement based on latitude. Once an island sinks to a particular latitude, the Russians give it to Japan.

^ wtf? lol..

Sakhalin seems to be perfect expansion option for Japan

And actualy I have heard a lot of rummors about the transfer to happen near 2012-2014 due to some secret treaties which probably took place somewhere during 2004.

I'm fully agree with you

The Japanese island chains are all drifting south and sinking. It might take 5 to 10 thousand years to show, but it will happen. that's only 25 to 50 generations in the future.

That's why the islands ARE important to Japan. Otherwise, who gives a sh!t about three frozen islands!

in 5000 years you don't need kuriles, you need Siberia.

before that happens though, if global warming continues people will need to gang up on Russia to make them spit out some land.

I thought it said in the article it was nuclear power technology, and that Japan would buy fuel from Russia. Japan probably has way better power plants (Russian ones are really old and crappy and have a tendency to meltdown ie. Chernobyl).

The problem with Russia is its military. Russia is still the #2 military power on earth (with enough nukes to blow up most of the planet if they wanted to), even though their economy sucks. Russia has kind of fallen to the sidelines since the Soviet collapse, but it's still a dangerous, aggressive country and has been trying to reassert itself in recent years.

Russia is quite a beautiful place actually I've visited the country before including the islands they took from us during WW2.

I think Russia wouldn't mind because they did sell Alaska before.

I hope that this isn't the same thing you think about russians themselves.

shoo off troll.

Please don't turn this into a hate thread.

Why would Russians give islands to Japan?

Ha ha ha, it just land, Russia have too much politically defined physical region here with no one to physically populate it. I am guessing that they are saving it for the future here on Earth. It would be interesting if the human (ironic label) population of Russia grow to it current politically defined physical region, it not the physical genes that count more than the soul but you'll never know is what they say. There are so much people here don't know is not even funny, and I am only 27 years of age.

Edit: of course one should also consider the physical evolution of certain charateristics. Certainly, being a bird or a bug would not allow one to observablely work on, say, painting a picture or build something with the hands, or talk,... It come down to what does one values more than what is not. I value my physical existence, even though it is boring and I sense a certain unfairness.

Highly unlikely.

http://www.russiatoday.com/Politics/2009-0...ells_Japan.html






In today's age, no country will willingly cede part of it land, in dispute or not, to some other country unless it get some benefit for doing so.

Clearly, right now, there is no benefits good enough for Russia to cede these islands to Japan.

TomAsia

^ talk about aggressive overreaction to Aso's simple factual statement...

How was it aggressive? Russia's FM only corrected what Aso said and in no way threaten Japan in anyway.

Openly judging the intentions of a prime minister, calling it unlawful and unacceptable, is pretty aggressive to me.

It is a reasonable, formal and diplomatic responses to other country trying to claim part of your land as theirs.

China and South Korea uses these type of diplomatic response all the time regarding Diaoyu Island and Dokdo.



TomAsia

^show me one exchange that's as intense and personal as this.

from mofa website


I am not going to serach the webs but any time there is land dispute between two nations governments will use these type of language.

The mere uses of the word "Unacceptable" and "Unlawful" is not aggressive. As in this case, Russia will not do anything illegally and forcefully to undermine Japan's current economic, political and sovereign rights. Also, what was said by Aso and what Russia's FM's response is not personal, it is political. They represents their nation, not their person.

In the end, I guess my perception of aggressiveness is a bit different than yours. For me, if Russia decleared war on Japan, recalled their diplomat, or imposed sanction then that would considered to be aggressive. But not Nesterenko diplomatic reply.


TomAsia

The chances of Russia giving back these islands is pretty low. And no, Russia isn't going after Japanese technology.



Russia sold Alaska because they were in some financial troubles and feared US and Canadian expansion. They don't have to worry about that in the modern world, especially from Japan.

I can't help TomAsia if he can't see that Russians specificly naming Mr. Aso and judging him to have bad intentions, is very personal and very aggressive.

Russian leadership and mentality of the 1800s and the Russian leadership and mentality today are totally different.

If Russia does "sell" some of those islands back to Russia, it will be at a price that will make Japan balk.

Why would those islands be so important to Russia as to sell them at a price Japan will obviously refuse? Those islands are extremely important to Japan in the very distant future but absolutely unimportant in the near future. Is Russia thinking they'll get a killer deal in 10 thousand years or more from now? There might not even be a Russia or Japan then.

Given Russia's current economy, one would think they would play their cards better.

As the old expression goes: 'land is the one thing they're not making any more of'. People kill and even die for land. This is why almost no country ever gives it up by choice or without a fight, even when it's the right thing to do. Of course those islands should belong to Japan, but the Russian government doesn't care about the feelings of the Japanese people. Sad to say there is rarely altruism among nations.

Hopefully the Japanese gov't will do its duty though and find a way to wrangle them back for the cheapest possible price. But they won't get them back for free, that's for sure.

If the Russians aren't smart enough to come to the table early, they'll get less of a deal centuries from now as world opinion slowly solidifies to our side. Japan has time on her side.

Japan should more strategic in its alliance with USA.
support for USA = support for Kuriles

For superpower games, a few islands is nothing. Considering USA invaded Russian allies Iraq, bombed Serbia, separated Kosovo, armed Georgia, brought NATO to the gates of Leningrad, USA should have been able to get those islands back for Japan during the 90's when Russia was in a mess and dependent on the west. I feel Japan did not press their American partner to take a side, that was the problem.

Japan should not offer herself for so little. During the next showdown, say over NMD, Japan should tie its future American alliance with American support for Kuriles.

True, a relationship should be two ways and the USA probably could negotiate with the Russians on a playing field that the Japanese can't.

China could also act as a go between but Its probably too early in modern Japan-China relations for something like that.
Maybe in the future, its all in the future.

It's just amazing to me in the mid of 19th century, with such backward communications, Russians were able to project power 8000km from their capital, right up to China and Japan. I don't understand how they achieved. Maybe the Asians just didn't see any use for empty, cold lands, and Russians just rided on their expansionist instinct.

russia can selll everything

They achieve it with 20000 nukes.

^ clueless

The answer is in this book which you can buy on ebay. Its really good and informative.
Russias expanded into territory no one wanted at the time. Must remember the majority of Russia is above the Cold 49 Parallel. US and Canada border is the 48 parallel.

Books called:
"Eastern Destiny" - Russia in Asia and the North Pacific" by G. Patrick March


This is an excerpt of the book.: http://books.google.com.pr/books?id=ujht5Y...esnum=1#PPP1,M1

Russians first got to the Imperial Capital of China in 1618 via overland route.
This is an internet source on Russia and China. http://www.koreanhistoryproject.org/Ket/C16/E1603.htm