All the Chinese ruled countries and regions forming a collective organization.
This would include China, Hongkong, Macau, Taiwan, Singapore.

Singapore is pragmatic. They don't have some romantic notions where they'd give up their independence to join some "chinese union". The west provides them with open economic lifelines, so they love that and defend just that.

Macao and hK are already PRC, so that leaves Taiwan. Well, first the political systems have to come closer, then I could imaging a 25 year federation, with a blueprint towards full union.

Did France and Germany give up some independence when they joined the European Union? Chinese Union is more of economic collaboration so it can keep those peripheral blood suckers out of them.

Franco German union had a strong political backdrop. Economic integration is the "rational benefit" part, the other part is to put an end to centuries of antagonism and war. Their idea was to promote a common european vision based on european values, create an economic block with high trade efficiency, and make sure war can never happen again in europe.

I don't see any of this applying to China-Singapore relationship. It's like asking Finland to join CIS. It might satisfy megalomania in the big guy, but nothing to gain for the small guy.

I disagree with that. At this globalization, economic factor is > than political factor. Not the mention Singapore share the same ethnics back ground. During this economic crisis, Both Singapore and Taiwan suffered alot and will need to integrate with CHina more in the future.
Not less.

Lee Guan Yew , former president of Singapore, as an ethnic chinese, strongly defended the Chinese Unity , he came out and said China doesn't need Dalai Lama as mediator, China can wait it out and with new generation of chinese speaking tibetans , the problem will be solved.
Now , that comment doesn't seem to be came out of typical democratic countries leader, does it? No it doesn't , because Lee , himself is an ethnic chinese.

I've never heard him make biased statements for china, he only said what was accurate regarding tibet.

I do feel he is sentimental towards china, HIMSELF. Singaporeans? They speak English, didn't you know?
They have their own culture, their way of doing things. What would they get from joining china? China will not give them massive subsidies. The economies are already quite open. Singapore is small, they have all the markets open to them that they could use. They care about developing their people, let the big brothers handle the global system. With China and USA in balance, Singapore can ensure small nation rights are maintained. That is their worldview, as far as I can tell.

It'd be nice to get some Singaporean viewpoints here.

With this strong collaboration, Chinese Union can have strong technology base, can surpass the likes of Japenis.

Taiwan's the biggest asian investor in China with $100 billion whereas Japan only $60 billion, Korea only $30billion.

Another case, Sinaporean based company (AMEC) started a leading edge semiconductor fab equipments making , It doing all it's R&D in Shanghai.

You don't see Japan and South Korea willing to put that type of leading edge tech company in China.
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China's Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment (AMEC) has cut into the supply chain of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company's (TSMC's) 12-inch fabs, with its 45nm etcher, which is in the process of verification, with volume shipments expected in the second half of this year, industry sources have revealed.

AMEC has recently set up a branch office in Hsinchu, Taiwan.

Company general manager Michael Chu has said that AMEC has secured equipment orders for 65nm and 45nm production from first-tier semiconductor players, and its equipment for 32nm node has been under development with customers.

AMEC reportedly has supplied 12-inch equipment to Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC), China's largest wafer foundry house. AMEC, considered to be one of China's fastest growing equipment suppliers, has drawn investment from Qualcomm and KLA-Tencor, as well as venture capital firms Walden International, Lightspeed Venture Partners and Redpoint Venture.

AMEC raised US$58 million in Series C funding in October 2008, according to the company.

All I know is almost all the non-chinese people in democratic countries feel China ought to be out of tibet.
I don't think you can dispute that.

The Singaporeans do think like Chinese. Chinese go for accuracy, not advocacy. What Lee said was extremely accurate. The non-chinese either have their own agenda, or they have no grasp of the situation in China.

It still doesn't tell me Singapore needs or wants to give up its independence in any way to achieve their goals. I've never heard a Singaporean express desires to be part of china.


The only way I see union happening, is if there was disaster in SEA, economic or political. If Singapore is invaded, China might step in and inspire Singaporean desires to be protected. But that seems so unrealistic. Singapore is actually the most powerful SEA military itself

That's Why I use the term Chinese Union, not China Union. It has differences. Like Chinese Taipei , which is the offical name for Taiwan under WHO.

I just don't see China ready to accept an equal status in such a union. in EU there are balancing powers with close economy size and population size. China will be the behemoth. Will China accept one country one vote? Will Singapore accept one man one vote?

not quite, EU has accepted those poor eastern bloc countries as members.

Also concentrate on economic and technology collaboration and development first. (at least equal to Japan in terms of technology level)

leave political aspects out of it for now.

Maybe Thailand also can join since alot of them has chinese blood in them. Get more mandarin schools there to train them to speak and write.

if you don't have politics, then you just have what we have today,

what about a common currency for starter?

Singapore and China do not have the kind of daily border crossing and trade like France and Germany, so I imagine the benefits are not great. US Canada have huge trade volume, and they seem to do fine with separate currencies.

Asking Singapore to use common currency is like asking them to use Chinese currency. They'll lose all control over their monetary policy.

Singapore has a highly developed workforce. Part of the reason for this is they don't have to put up with the bull$hits in China. Unification is satisfying from an ethnic point of view, but I feel independence is actually good for some individual societies.

Yuan is quite stable internationally, it wouldn't be bad if Singapore adopt it.
If Singapore is part of the Union, then it could have bigger stakes of things in China. The benefits would outweight the shortcomings.
It's role is really to help China innovate and be more competitive. not much border trade is fine.

I don't think you quite get it. Right now, China is the rich daddy, have tons of cash to burn and huge market , that's why Taiwan's Ma group is all over China for the economic intergration.

maybe before that happens we should ask why Hong Kong is still keeping their "dollar"

If the Singapore wanted us, I'd love to have them. They are in a great strategic spot, and China can help them get some land from Indonesia but I highly doubt they want us



The difference is Taiwan is currently closed to mainland investment, now they are opening. Singapore was never closed. In any case the Taiwanese are over hyping the impact.

To help those ethnic Chinese to win and control power in Indonesia, Malayisa, thailand ...etc Then they all could become part of Chinese Union. You have Rose revolution, then you have Chinese Revolution.

U want to 1998 happen once again?
But I think china should seek back kokang of myanmar...

This idea is stupid.



Why? Just because there is a large Han Chinese population? There is no reason to do so.

BTW, if anything Singapore is more "related" to Malaysia than anything. The current president isn't even Chinese. I'm so sick of people making up unions or unities because of ethnicities or language. Unions are made for common interests that affects all the countries under the union. Just because there is a large population of Chinese, a union should be made up?



These Chinese in these countries look in to the interests of their own countries and becoming part of a Chinese Union is worthless. If the Chinese in these countries become politicians, I highly doubt they moved up the political ladder because they look in to the interests of China. Especially the Chinese in Thailand which has throughly been assimilated.

Stupid idea.

wtf lol. whats the point. theres already ASEAN+3 and SCO.

Because those are loose elements bundled together.

referring to this post...


somethings you can ponder about in the mind, but you just don't say out loud because it sounds so god damn stupid. Doesn't matter what ethnicity because i can guarantee that no one not even us chinese think its going to be beneficial for singapore.

Singapore Chinese is more trouble then TW.

Unless their economy is hard struck, or if they are under attack from a 3rd power, they wont beg for Chinese help.

They dont even regard themselves as Chinese.

because those kokang chinese even do not get a formal ID provided by their government. And most of them are extremely poor.

I wish the British never liberated some of its colonies like Burma. If they still held them, we could negotiate to get them back like we negotiated HK It's easier to muscle with an imperial rival, than to bully a small, independent country

Taiwan must merge in the future with PRC mainland. A modality and path must be found, and preferably utmost patience and sacrifice is given to forge a peaceful solution that is acceptable to Taiwan.
But Taiwan must eventually be unified.

Singapore is a different case, some kind of cooperation is enough. To establish some kind of label or make a name, or federation, might be just complicating and over-politicizing the relationship. It will create unnecessary problems and complexities.

I believe the current relations is already intensive enough, and is bound to get even more intensive in the future. A kind of treaties can be established (free trade treaty, no visa treaty, etc) which can facilitate and promote further cooperation. To make a name or no name is not much different, in fact it might be better not to make a name on it.

As to other countries like Thailand, etc, I dont think it's a good idea to make any kind of federation with them. Basically I support more East Asia federation (with the Koreans and Japanese) rather than federation with SEA nations. Thailand is not a Chinese-majority country. Neither is Indonesia, Malaysia, or any other countries. The Chinese population there in those countries are minorities, they are not majority, so I dont think there can be found a way to establish a political relations only with Chinese population there, bypassing the majority ethnic.

At most what can be done is to establish more contacts with them, give preferential treatment to them ("overseas Chinese" term), cultural contact, trade contact, and so on. But I dont think it is possible to establish political relations only with those Chinese people while separating and bypassing the majority ethnic, such a modality will be very hard to be found. Meanwhile to establish the "federation" with the whole country altogether, such as Thailand, Malaysia, etc, is unappetizing and unattractive to me, since that would mean a close relation with non-Chinese nation. In this case, I think it is better to pursue the federation with closer East Asia nations, Koreans, Japanese, and possibly Vietnamese.

So in conclusion:

Taiwan must be unified.
HK and Macao should be further integrated.
Singapore just cooperation is enough.
Other overseas Chinese just cooperation is enough.
To make federation, pursue East Asia region instead.

I support finding some way to give the SEA ethnic Chinese dual citizenships.

I think it just bring them more trouble...

why should we be afraid of trouble?

if 1998 happens again, we just invade to protect our citizens, then we don't leave.

China is not super power till now.

the label doesn't really matter. look at each goal individually to see what can be accomplished. if it can be done, then just do it. the world doesn't really have such long memory like we might think. look at how long they remember when Dalai Lama makes a lie.

The way to fix these problems is not to take land because you're just bringing trouble to yourself (especially such land with no resources), but to pressure the Burmese government to do something about it. Thats something the Chinese government should do, to care more about overseas Chinese, especially since a lot of Chinese overseas send back money to or invest in China.

Dual citizenships means the both countries recognize dual citizenship status.

Not all countries have dual citizenship belief. Some countries just want to insist on single citizenship, so I dont think it is possible.

I think for overseas Chinese, it is hard to find any kind of political modality. After all, they are citizens and legal subjects of the countries they are residing in. It is enough to just have the usual contacts, like trade, business, cultural contact, and so on, like usual.

For Singapore I support a closer relations, just that the name maybe it is better not to give a name or a label, at least not now.

But for me it doesnt matter too much, because cultural contact is continuing, there are things like joint TV serials productions, things like this is more important and meaningful to me than a political union relation. I dont think at the moment it is possible to establish a kind of political union between China and Singapore, not sure about the future though. But it doesnt matter as long as the underlying underpinning social and cultural contact is continuing. I place more importance in people-to-people contacts.

Clever person never say but only do...
I think this thread do not have any meaning.

Whats the problem with Burma?
Some kind of problems in there?

I think it is quite dilemmatic also, I think no government can have such freedom or leeway to interfere and tell other countries what to do, after all they are sovereign governments and sovereign countries and they have the right to do what they want. In fact for things which are non-urgent and non-emergency (other than riots, killings, etc), for their own domestic policies, it is better for China to keep quiet and be more respectful and restrained.

talking is doing too. if you don't say it, the idea doesn't exist

talking in such a public area using english is not very clever....

Actually a respectable government cares about its own people whether they're a citizen of a different country or not. I'm going to assume that you're an overseas Chinese so you should not be supporting a quiet China. If there were any major laws or attacks against Chinese you would be in serious danger. In the past when the US put discriminatory laws against the Japanese in the US (during the time when many laws were placed against the Asian population in the US), the Japanese government actually said something about it. The Chinese government did nothing. Now considering that China was weak as a country back then, its somewhat understandable but now that China has more than enough power especially against a country like Burma, they should put pressure on the Burmese government. This is something you shouldn't be defending, because you yourself is at risk.

you may be right hehe..

anyway we have to learn to say what we want to say, without unnecessarily offending people.

but those SEA guys that think ethnic chinese can be abused as minorities, they need to think differently.

You know part of the reason why the Koreans in China are the most successful ethnicity in China is because of the South Korean government. And they weren't even at risk of discriminatory laws or attacks.

What is the thing that is happening in Burma...?

I am not familiar with it, thats why.

I think if there is emergency or urgent things, maybe the PRC government should, express its concern and persuade the other government to do certain things. However it is only for emergencies or other clear important matters, and should be used sparingly, otherwise it will be counter-productive and only create resentments.

I dont think I am in disagreement with you, I also have the same belief that China has a moral obligation to look out for Chinese people everywhere, but only, and only, if there are emergencies, or other urgent things.

I know that after 1998, Jiang Zemin did say some things to Indonesian president in subsequent meetings, and also the racial riot in Papua New Guinea recently prompted the Chinese ambassador to publicly issue some statements.

But for non-urgent, domestic policies, lets say, educational policies (insisting on local language as the medium), or other domestic policies, I think it is best for China to keep quiet and be more restrained.

how are they the "most successful ethnicity" in China? you do like to pull $hit out of nowhere

Nope. Koreans and Manchus as a whole are the most successful people in China. When I mean successful, I mean as in healthiest income and satisfaction in life. There are more rich Han people in China of course, but for every rich there are thousands that are dirt poor. This is based on an average. Not in the number of millionaires or what not.

how do you come to that conclusion without pulling it out from your @$$?

You don't have to believe me. I can try to look for a source but why should I do it for you anyway? You can stay ignorant if you want.