http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=157006

Korea is divided because US and Japan want to sell weapons. Sure

South Koreans so brainwashed by a liberal media and blinded by arrogant nationalist delusions of grandeur.

A whole generation of Che Guevara brainwashed sheep.

Koreans are individuals. Everyone have different views in the matter. If everyone followed same thing they would be sheep but they do not.

Korea is divided because USA wants to control Korean peninsula and eventually take over China and Russia if they have the chance but mostly a pipe dream because you and I know Americans smoke lot of that $hit is really been effecting their brains.

NK single handily pushed back US forces all the way to Pusan until McArther landed on Inchon. That's how strong Korean ground forces really is. Koreans will cut through American ground forces like butter if they ever went into war.

Real Koreans (sarcasm) support Kim Jong Ill. Othewise they are Uncle Tom American puppets. Right?

Individual my eye. South Korean liberals (or whatever you want to call them) don't care about individual thought. They control the whole media and education system and produce clones of themselves.




What in the crap would the USA do with Chinese and Russian territory? Move settlers there? I'm sure there is room in China. Perhaps Siberia if they can stand the cold.

Should we take over North Korea. Yeah, because they're evil. They should have took them over in the Korean war. Either that or not got involved in the war.



Oh those brave North Koreans. We must "make the world safe for gulags".

That shows US forces eventually won (until China came in). They could have took them on too if the US chose to use full force.



Who are Koreans? A coalition of Communists and Korean liberals.

Americans. Those black and white skinned devils. Right? They're capitalist too. That really makes Koreans angry.

Face it. Korean liberal's (and NK communists) main motivation is racial hatred.




More like Kim Jong Ill is smoking something when he orders nuclear tests. More like South Korean liberals (which probably is most of em) who think:

1. North Korea is their friend even when they threatened to turn Seoul into a "Sea of Fire". It was during the Clinton not Bush administration.

2. North Korea's huge army will not hurt them or destroy their easy middle class capitalist lifestyle.

3. North Korea doesn't have gulags or starving people.

Not exactly. I don't support Kim Jong Il. He's a piece of $hit dictator. Korean people never appointed him leader.

But what I do support is real Korean people to have the same freedom as white Americans.





Go ask 100 Korean liberals and ask them what they think about the war. You would get many different answers.





With Chinese and Russians gone there would be no challenge to their supremacy.




Look how much resources Koreans had in those days. It was very little with only small armed forces. Now NK has million man army with nukes to boot. Who the fu-k is going to mess with NK? Even almighty USA do not want to fu-k with Koreans. they know what's good for them.





Koreans fight for freedom not some ideology you Americans have been feeding your children with.

Hitler is nobody to me as some mid-westerner who lives in a trailer park.

Then why do you defend him?



Yes, but they all hate American troops (Yankees as they call them). They also hate many normal Americans and insult them

Some examples:

fu-k you Miguk

Bin Laden praising

9/11 praising

Talking about Ohno whenever "America" is brought into the conversation. You know that was an Australian judge who made that decision.




Why not? Who needs communists? It's an evil ideology and hurts many people. I'm sure the USA couldn't manage an army to occupy Russia and China? What are Koreans smoking when they think such silly ideas? I'm the USA would kick the commies out and leave.



Oh, please stop with the hate. I'm sure Koreans are blaming Americans now and probably insulting American civilians.

America isn't scared of North Korea and all their racist / nationalist rabble rousing. Of course we all know that the real source of hatred against the west is racial not economic.



What is that ideology? Capitalsim. Progressives always equate imperalism with capitalism. Therefore, all capitalism is bad even when it makes South Korea prosperous.



Bad example. However, a democracy is a dangerous concept in South Korea because it leads to a North Korean takeover. The South Koreans are fooled into a false sense of security and ignore obvious evil.



America haters love to point out poor, criminal or handicapped Americans and mock them. Of course, if white Americans mocked poor Koreans then that would be politically incorrect and racist. Of course, I believe all mockery of the poor anywhere is bad.

I guess it gives America haters satisfaction to know that the rich USA isn't so rich after all HA HA Look at the poor freaks that live there.

I don't but I rather support my people then be slaves of white American system.




What do Americans do? They call us g@@k, make fun of our people and so on. Perhaps if you behaved in a way you were respected nobody would disrespect you.




1 world power is a stupid idea how stupid you capitalists think communists are. You don't need an army to occupy but enforce your american puppets in to their govt.




America is a big hairy pussay. That's why they only invade much smaller countries without nuke capabilities.




You might want to ask your mommy and daddy.




Then take your troops and get out of Korea.




Koreans do not live in trailer parks. You Americans do.

What system? The white American system that made South Korea prosperous.



Only idiots make fun of Asians etc.. It's a very small probably tiny percentage of the population.

On the other hand, most Korean schoolchildren know little about American culture (at least the racism part). Nonetheless, it doesn't stop them from insulting regular Americans.
Your typical kid who mentions "Ohno" doesn't know anything about American racial history. He's just picking on Americans.

Do you think most ESL teachers are racist and look down on Koreans. Maybe some but how can you tell you is and who isn't?



What? Communists don't have puppets? How about all of the former Soviet bloc? Everybody knows that China backs up NK.

I thought you said you didn't like Kim Jong Ill. You sure don't sound like it.



It's because Kim Jong Ill is a mad dog. I wouldn't say that "pussy" or weak but heroic. Were helping to ease the suffering of all those North Koreans. Because North Korea is a poor tyrannical state.



They would probably tell me that South Korea is prosperous and NK is a poor, backward and tyrannical state that oppresses it's people.



Sure, why not? NK can invade SK. Unless you guys think you can fight them. But of course, NK would NEVER do any harm to South Koreans. They would NEVER destroy the prosperous capitalism there (sarcasm).

Bottom line. Korean nationalists hate white Americans. That's the source of all the hate and anger.

Here is why Korean nationalists hate you, because you are just here to make fun at Koreans here.

South Korea became prosperous not because of America, because South Koreans worked hard.

America was way richer than South Korea before, they had all the resources they need, now bankrupt and begging money from China and Asia.

I'm not making fun of Koreans. I'm know Koreans worked hard. However, if South Korea was communist then the hard work wouldn't have payed off. Under Communism you work hard and gain nothing. Am I not right? But sure I agree that people should be paid a fair wage which they are not in China etc.

I'm not racist. I don't hate Koreans (north or south) and I don't want war between the USA and North Korea (or south).

If South Korea was communist then we there wouldn't be divided Korea.
Look at China and Russia? do you think they are failed communist state to you?

Communism failed but capitalism strive.

I'm no pro-communist myself but I don't know if US actually helped Korea?
More like US was protecting its own self interest in NE Asia.

Believe or not, more than 50% of South Koreans are Pro-America, I think that's fair.

Do you think Japan is Pro-America when their homeland was A-bombed twice?
I think America have to worry about Japanese than Koreans.

I don't think Koreans hardly be threat to USA.

Capitalism is thriving because USA keeps invading other countries to take resources while Russia or China did not.

Bottom line. Get out of Korea. We don't want to hear your BS how NK is going to invade us. If you were are friends I suggest you treat us like one by leaving and help if we are in need.

You got me there. capitalist nations often take resources by force. Nonetheless, the conditions in Communist nations are terrible. Therefore, most people would prefer to live in a capitalist nation despite the fact that capitalists are often unfair and greedy.

I see capitalism as the lesser of two evils in many cases. If people are paid a fair wage and no resources are stolen then capitalism is good otherwise it's bad (but still better than a Communist system). Therefore, the cold war was in defense of the lesser of two evils.



So that justifies disrespecting American soldiers and American civilians now? People in 1950 didn't know that China or Vietnam would adopt a free market system. Anyhow would they risk going thru Communist slavery for 20 odd years until free market reforms came (assuming they had some kind of crystal ball where they could see the future).

Anyways, how do you know a unified Communist Korea would have adopted the free market system? Kim Jong Ill or his father never adopted such system. Why? Because North Korea is a different sort of communist nation. It's more like a xenophobic racist kingdom.

Such a nation is not in it's right mind. That's why the USA and many other nations don't respect North Korea or it's desire to have nukes. It's a mad dog. A small mad dog but dangerous nonetheless. They would attack the south. You can count on it.

Finally, Vietnam and China might have free market economies but they are NOT democracies. They still have harsh governments with no freedom. South Korea has freedom. I admit it had a some undemocratic governments before. It's because there was a big NK threat. You know just like now America is threatened by terrorists. Therefore, we have to give up a lot of our freedom.

Of course, life in undemocratic South Korea was still better than life in North Korea. Otherwise, South Koreans would have migrated to North Korea during the 1970's etc.. Though I do admit North Korea's economy was better in the 1970's.

Its always funny when white foreigners especially ESL teachers believe
they know something about Korea, Korean culture and what Koreans are thinking.

They even don`t speak Korean, are not assimiliated in Korea and will leave Korea in a couple of weeks.


They think dating a Korean Itaewon whore will offer them unique insights into Korea.

LOL

I can't understand where all this hate comes from. That's why I go on and on about Korea. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't talk about it. It's not really my business unless Koreans are talking trash about America. If Americans were talking trash about Korea or hating Koreans then probably Koreans want to know why.

But besides the nuke dispute I don't think Koreans hate Americans that much. Bush is gone so things mellowed out I think. Of course, being a good teacher usually makes a good impression with Koreans. But it's that dark mood which takes away the inner glow which bridges cultural gaps.



Actually, that's quite expensive and few ESL teachers probably do that. But Koreans visit them too so isn't that hypocritical?

Why should Koreans hate Americans beside the nuke dispute?

The only reason why Koreans hate Americans is because they and their culture is ugly
and out of selfishness they agreed to divide our (innocent) country.


On the one hand you say Koreans are such victims, in the next sentence you whine about how 15 year old boys are making fun of America.

Pathetic

Really?

World Book Encyclopedia Page 299 Volume 11





I could say the same about Korea but it would politically incorrect and racist. So I would never consider it though I would never do that because I won't stoop to the level of Korean hatemongers.

What is so bad about our culture? Sounds like some Koreans are snobs.

But I'm Canadians and Englishmen have a great culture. Don't they? Let me ask you some questions.

How can you expect an advanced nation with a lot of power to NOT have great military power and social problems (gangs etc..)? Sure, Canada doesn't because they're not powerful. But to socialists economic and military power is a great crime.

England? What in the crap is the difference between the USA and England (as far as social problems go).

Frankly, I have it up to here with snobby European / Canadian ESL teachers and snobby "victim" mentality Koreans.




Yeah, exactly Stalin should have felt really bad about what he did.

Finally, to sum it up, this board is controlled by anti-Americans too. There's no free speech. That's why I may have broken the rules and got another screenname which probably will be suspended.

O.K. "fu-king USA" songwriter. Why can't I be free to say what I want to say??

merica haters love to point out poor, criminal or handicapped Americans and mock them. Of course, if white Americans mocked poor Koreans then that would be politically incorrect and racist. Of course, I believe all mockery of the poor anywhere is bad.

I guess it gives America haters satisfaction to know that the rich USA isn't so rich after all HA HA Look at the poor freaks that live there.

Yeah, but let's stop talking about less obvious things and we move on to the more obvious things when you White people get picked on by Africans and other ethnic and always get accused of racism and have to bowl down to them right in your own country. Why don't you solve those problems first?

I hardly see any East Asian, especially North East Asian accusing a White person....ever

Perhaps, there has been a few cases recently in East Asia due to the fact that White people always look down and f'ck us up over and over

Yeah. Kind of like Koreans who think they know all about America because the school(s) they went to taught them some British style English...

The problem is that most South Koreans don't want American forces to leave. Not immediately anyway. Even the Roh government was against a reduction of US forces in South Korea.

So if South Koreans really want the US to pack up and leave all they need to do is elect a government that will ask them to go. SK is not an occupied country.

You are asking a puppet regime? They know what they are told. If you defy and that's the end of it.

I wouldn't say "the whole generation."

A democratically elected government.







Please provide an example of the above.

Do you actually believe that?




isn't it so obvious? Big country pushing around the little country.

Do you have evidence to the contrary.





I've asked you the same questions when you were using different user names and you still have not been able to give an answer. Troll.

You have a small problem there. Every time we have left a nation voluntarily or been evicted, we have just re-ordered our game plans factoring out the nation we left. So if we were to leave the peninsula and your blood brothers up north decided it was time to gobble up territory, you would likely be on your own. Don't believe me? Go ask some Philippinos or South Vietnamese how great it was to have us gone.

Oh, one other thing. If you're one of those who think everything would be just great under a united Korean nation which happens to be Communist just because you hate/oppose America, I suggest you do a little reading on what happened to Viet Cong leaders and other anti-RVN opposition leaders post April 1975. They were almost as likely to get a bullet in the head or a trip to the gulag as were South Vietnamese government/military leaders.

I hope the North Korean Kim regime will fall, a transition government installed for a two decade period to integrate the people into the greater economy and get them up to speed on technology and politics, and then a reintegration back to South Korea.

Then I hope the US will leave the united Korea. By the time all this happens, China should be the world's largest economy and will achieve technological parity with the US. It would be in Korea's greater interests to align with the new world power instead of the former world power.

Of course, that's not to say that America won't be important to Korea. It will be, China will be Korea's neighbour. Sitting beside the world's largest economy means you have to somewhat align with them. Same with Canada and the US. No matter what government (Liberal or Conservative), they will more or less align with US policy, because the US has much influence in Canada. Same with the China-Korea situation. China will have a lot of influence in Korea by that time.

You can say I'm wrong or what not, but it's simple geo-economics and politics.

^ North Korea will eventually fall, they don't have much hope if they continue the way they manage now.
NK economy is shrinking and their leadership is in bungle. Another Sign of collapsing I guess.

Even US troops leaves South Korea, US troops will remain in Japan.
Beside US doesn't need to have troops in SK, they have Japan, Philippine, Australia and pacific islands like Saipan which they can always relocate their camps if they needed.

Well, if you put it that way, then yes - if China becomes the world's largest economy and achieves technological parity with the US, then obviously it will also have the capability to build the world's greatest military, in which case not siding with China would be suicidal. But that's the equivalent of begging the question. It's like saying America will always be there to police East Asia, because the US will definitely be the world's sole superpower forever.

There is an alternate scenario: China collapses or declines due to instabilities inherent in its system. A power vacuum is created, and regional powers contend for dominance. In this case, the future is full of uncertainty and chaos.

China may become a new world power but it's also surrounded by very powerful countries. Looking from how things are going, it's far more likely that China will be surrounded by rival states than friendly ones. Unlike the US., China is very much distruted and hated by the neighboring states, many of which are significantly powerful.

Also, you are gravely mistaken if you believe China will have much soft power in Korea in the near or the far future without drastic change. China's very existense, an imperialist state that occupies conquered territories such as Tibet, is antithetical to Korean nationalism.

The US is not distrusted and hated by their neighbors? South American regime is not very keen on the US.

I'm not as informed in Asia's situation as you do, but do you honestly believe China is looking for an expansion? From my view, China only wants Taiwan to be reunited with the mainland and stability in the region. I honestly don't believe China will be looking for expansion nor do I believe China will be as aggressive as the USA.
Besides having 2 or 3 world powers is better than having 1. China will not be as influential as the USA because the US has Europe to back them up and I don't see the Chinese government be very active in world's politic as the US has been the last 50 years.

I believe every asian wants the korean to re-united and prosper it will help asia's economy growing, the only thing that the s. korea has to do is not to provoke the north, what need to do is to gain trust with each other and gain respect, the north and the south need to open up little by little

no one in asia wants the region to turn into another middle east, so don't be stupid, use your brain stop spreading hatred, don't let anybody use you for their interest, everybody will loose

The US is not nearly as distrusted and hated by their neighbors as China. For instance, in this informative survey, 36% of Mexicans believe American foreign policy is morally good, and 26% believe it's about average. Only 28 percent believe American foreign policy is morally evil. On the other hand, only 6% of Koreans believe Chinese foreign policy is morally good. 37% believe it's about average, and 53% believe Chinese foreign policy is morally evil.

The rise of China is a serious threat to the region, and its very existence is manifestation of imperialist expansion. In the process of justifying its very existence, China went on to steal history and the cultural heritage of other peoples, such as Koreans, Mongolians and Tibetans.




Actually, the situation in the Korean peninsula began to improve dramatically only after China succumbed to international pressure and began to limit its disruptive involvement in Korean affairs.

It's not our loss if we let those with mutual interests make use of us, as we make use of them. Mutual interests like dealing with the rising threat from China.

Mexico is kinda befriended with the US. I was talking about countries like Venezuela, Cuba and other South American countries.


China's existence is a manifestation of imperialist expansion? What kind of manifest is the US's existence then?
What did the Americans steal and murder in their history. Biggest crimes in human history can be found in the "land of freedom".

But no need to drag ancient history into this discussion.
To my knowledge recent China has been in armed conflicts in Vietnam and Korea. Both neighboring states. The US however has been in how many armed conflicts??
And I believe current Chinese regime is different than the communist regime of Mao.

Honestly I don't really see why you see China as a threat, I may be biased since I'm a Chinese. But I believe China has no intention to expand it's borders.

PKRussel: China will probably not fight to expand its borders, but it will fight to keep what it has. The problem there is that, at least from SantaKlaws's camp, what China has is an empire. He is not wrong. I have spoken at lengths about the empire-nation that comprises modern China, and the fact that China is nothing without its empire - it is, and was, an imperial existence. Koreans, however, hate empires - they believe that such states are unnatural and evil. This creates an existential conflict between the two camps, to the extent that some would observe that modern China and Korea cannot coexist in the long-term - one must fall.

I would not make such a grim prediction, however. There is some evidence that Korean public opinion is determined mostly by current events and the media. For example, before 2002, Koreans had a relatively positive view of China despite the fact that Tibet was no less of an issue then, and despite China's support for North Korea. An anti-China wave rippled across the peninsula for various reasons, not the least having to do with the Northeast China Project and deliberate retaliations by Korea's (and America's) media and intellectual establishment. What can be damaged, can also be repaired, though the latter process might take much more time and effort than the former. The question is under circumstances would the Korean (and American) media and intellectual establishment be willing to mend fences.

Of course, it might be too late for the current generation, who have been fundamentally colored against each other. But history is measured not in decades but in centuries: this is something that humans, short-sighted creatures that we are, seldom understand in full. For the most part, Tibet's long-term fate does not depend on Korea, but this fate will be resolved, sooner or later. The same is true of Xinjiang and Taiwan. Equilibrium cannot be maintained forever - these regions will become autonomous and/or independent, or they will be absorbed by China. In both cases, Koreans and Chinese of future generations will adjust. There is not much of a mental block about Europe's colonization of entire continents, now. Similarly, I do not expect these issues to dominate Korean-Chinese relations in perpetuity.

I don't think you knew anything about north korea at all, do you have any example or proof of china disruptive involvement that caused north behavior?

if you really read about n korea at all, your n korea didn't care about china one bit, its moody behavior caused solely by its relation with the USA

read the whole thing here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_%...tates_relations


your constant mumbling about n korea china thing without any substantial proof to back up your accusation makes me wonder if you have an agenda here

Cuba may be an exception, but Venenzuela and other not-so-friendly South American countries don't share borders with the United States.

China simply lacked the ability to project power, but China still managed to get involved in armed conflict plenty of times.

And lets not forget that Chian's existense is a manifestation of imperialist expansion that is still a live and on-going process, as we see in the continued oppression of Tibetans and Uighars. Most importantly, China, not America, attempted to steal Korean history and cultural legacy, as they did on Tibet and East Turkestan.




It's pretty much common sense now that China unconditional of the North Korean regime to exploit North Korean natural resources and keep North Korea as a buffer state. This point's been made numerous times on this board, and it has also been widely reported in the Korean media as well as the Western media. I know Chinese nationalists like to place the blame on the US or South Korea for North Korea's antics, but on the other side of the Great Wall of the Irreonciliable Impasse, China's the one getting blamed.

Guess what? If China is imperialistic, the first 2 nations would be removed from the earth are Koreas, both of them. Since both Koreas still exists today, China is not imperialistic. And come on, how plentifulis NK's natural resource? Its size is not as big as a Jiangsu province. Would China be unable to work if it scarce that tiny bit of resources? NO!

Thanks for your explanation.
I tried to do some research yesterday, but was too busy to read everything. I still have a question though, what were the Chinese flaming about Koreans?
Can answer in PB, so that this topic doesn't get too offtopic.

China tried several times, but was defeated.

NK is rich in mineral resources, and yeah China would stoop so low to get its hands on those resources.

When did China defeat? In Han dynasty korea was a part of its province. After that China had never try to invade Korea again. Although I don't accept Manchurian are Chinese, the current govn' says they are. The Qing also successfully invaded Korea. It didn't exactly annexed Korea, doesn't mean it is not able to do so. Did you forgot Sohyeon? Any historical war did Korea beat China? None. Even the most recent war, Korean War, Korea did not defeat China. China and US destoryed everything in Korea, and so funny that Korean themselves can not do anything about it.

And plus, NK is only rich in Uranium. Other than that, they can barely supply themselves. First of all, they don't know how to mine those resources. It is wasting anyway, so there should be no problem to develop those areas. On the other hand, China didn't drive in their troops to force the NK government to let the Chinese company to mine those resources. The government is actually happier since these company pay taxes or some sorts of tribute. So it is completely fair trade.

Finally,you are talking about China, the 3rd biggest country on the earth, how rich your natural resource is. So funny.

IMO,

Average South Koreans would think:

1. North Korea - bad government poor people

2. U.S.A - good government bad people

Han Dynasty's control over Korea was only partial, and in the end the commanderies were defeated by local resistance. China was defeated on numerous attempts to control Korea, such as the Sui Dynasty invasions.

North Korea is rich in iron and coal, but lacked the ability to efficiently mine these resources. China capitalized on this by buying up North Korea's largest mines. To do that, China offered the North Korean regime, the military in particular, with unconditional sponsorship, such as shipment of oil. Prior to the nuclear crisis in early 2000s, South Korea and Japan did much of the trade with North Korea. After the crisis, South Korean and Japanese trade with North Korea sharply declined, while Chinese trade with North Korea sharply increased.

Yes, I am talking about China, a greedy and ruthless state that would cause much suffering and misery on Korea just to exploit that "little amount" of natural resources.

The only "very" powerful nation near China is Russia. Now they seems have a great relationship, or let's say coorperation. Other nations are just powerless. India was beaten up by China 40 years ago, Vietnam 30 years ago. Both war, China did not use more than one division of army. Is Korea and Japan very powerful? Or let's say powerful enough to threaten China? Everyone knows the answer. Even all these country allies together, China only need no more than 1million Armed forces (maybe 40 thousand 40 years ago. One devision in China is about 10 thousand soilders). The standing army of China is currently 1.78 million. So why would China worry about its neighbors? Despite the military force, China economically controls all these countries' economy. If China sanction any of these nations, their economy would decline repidly. The only nation that qulify to threat China is USA. However, Uncle Sam is a business man. He cares only about money. China does not have any desire to fight US, and 1billion debt is not funny at all! So most likely, US would coorperate more with China.
The situation of the would is like the three kingdom era. China and Russia are the weakter ones, while US is the stronger one. And thus a balence is kept for the world.

On the contrary, Koreans perceived US as bad government and good people back when Bush was in power. Now with Obama, it's pretty much good government and good people. According to the latest poll, most Koreans have favorable view of the US(78%), Obama(81%) and Americans(83%).

http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/264.pdf

As for North Korea, South Koreans view the North Korean government very negatively. As for the people, I haven't seen any polls regarding this but I'm pretty sure it's generally positive.



You vastly underestimate the military strength of Korea and Japan, and vastly overestimate the military strength and economic clout of China. And I can tell you this, if India, Vietnam, Korea and Japan all ally together and attacks China, China doesn't stand a chance.

Who is not greedy? US is greedy, too. But they have the power to greedy. Others can only jealous. China offered the North Korean regime, the military in particular, with unconditional sponsorship, such as shipment of oil. Obviously it is fair trade. NK want the oil, China want the resources. SK and Japan cut trade with NK is their choice. China of course would catch the opportunity to fill in the vacum. In giving back, China feed the NK people. That is trade. One gets what they want, and offer supplies that others demand.

Yeah, that's why China was the crux of the problem in the international effort to dissuade North Korea from developing nuclear weapons. It was SK and Japan's choice to dissuade North Korea from developing nuclear weapons for the sake of regional stability, whereas it was China's choice to be the thug that helps North Korea continue to develop nuclear weapons and destablize the region and keep Korea divided.

India probably is a little bit tougher now because they have nuclear weapon now. But what about Vietnam, and Korea? How can they stand in front of the most powerful army in the world? Only the US M1A2 or Russian T90 can resist China's Type 99. China is building up its Air force and its navy. The new generation of jets of PLAF is superior than F16s. That's why US order F22 division to stay in Japan. China does not have a very powerful navy, but Japan does not have aircraft carriers either. So the submarine division can at least defend it's sea coast. I'm not underestimating the military strength of Korea and Japan. If US does not help, none of the nation can survive. I didn't even metion China's nuclear force. It is capable to blow up every inch of land Korea, Japan, and Vietnam combined.

China and Russia does help NK to build up its nuclear faculty in some way, but only to creat a more stable condition in Far East. Thus SK would not able to annex NK and thus would not threaten China's security (US still have military bases in SK). China is only teaching NK a way to protect themselves. I know that you were pretty upset about the Naro-1, which failed. SK don't even able to launch its own satellite

I won't get into the specifics because I'm not interested in d!ck swaggering, but Chinese weapons aren't exactly superior, if not inferior, compared to those of Korea and Japan. And if we are to exclude US involvement, we should assume Korea and Japan to be nuclear powers. Oh, and Korea doesn't need an aircraft carrier to make airstrikes in China. Beijing is within bombing range for Korean F-15Ks.



Russian involvement was rather minimal, and Russia was among the international powers that tried to dissuade North Korea from developing nuclear weapons. The main player in sponsoring NK nuclear development is China, and China alone.

And I'm not particularly upset about Naro-1, and I don't think it has any place in the current discussion at hand.