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DutchEastIndiesMan
So i heard another bombing ? targeting hotels ?

QUOTE
Fatal blasts hit Jakarta hotels


Deadly explosions hit Jakarta hotels

At least nine people including some foreigners have been killed in two bomb blasts at luxury hotels in the Indonesian capital Jakarta, police say.

One explosion hit the Ritz-Carlton, ripping off its facade, and the other the Marriott Hotel. At least 48 people were injured.

No group has yet claimed responsibility for the blasts.

The BBC's Karishma Vaswani says security is extremely tight around the two hotels.

There were reports of a third explosion in northern Jakarta a few hours later but it was not immediately clear what the cause was.

The blasts occurred at about 0730 local time (0030 GMT).

"I heard two sounds like 'boom, boom' coming from the Marriott and the Ritz-Carlton. Then I saw people running out," security guard Eko Susanto told AFP.

Geoffrey Head, on business in the city, told the BBC he did not hear the blast but that his colleagues had called him after it happened to tell him to leave the building.

"I looked out of the window - I could see down to ground level and I saw there was a lot of broken glass. I thought it was time to actually get out."

Mr Head said there had been no warning to evacuate the building.

"The surreal thing was going down in the elevator and walking through the lobby and looking across to my left and noticing the cafe was completely blown out," he said.

Myra Junor, who witnessed the blasts from a nearby building, told Reuters windows on the lower floors of the Ritz-Carlton had shattered.

Ambulances raced to the scene and there is a heavy police presence in the area, says our correspondent.

Finding the victims

Police said a number of foreigners were among those who died.

The president director of PT Holcim Indonesia, Tim Mackay, was among them, the company's marketing director Patrick Walser said.

Security Minister Widodo Adi Sucipt said a New Zealander was among the injured.

A 50-year-old South Korean man, Cho In-sang, was taken to hospital with minor injuries.

"I don't remember exactly but suddenly the ceiling is falling down and the sound was big," he said.

Consular staff are trying to track their nationals, and Australia issued a warning against unnecessary travel to Indonesia.

An Australian man told local radio in Australia that his son had been hurt at the Marriott and was being taken to hospital.

The man, who identified himself only as Jim, said his son had telephoned him from Jakarta to say his leg was wounded and he had lost hearing in one ear in an explosion.

"He's on his way to hospital. He's OK," Jim said.

Manchester United football team was due to arrive in Indonesia on Saturday and was booked to stay at the Ritz-Carlton. The blasts may raise doubts about the team's tour, PA news agency reported.

The two hotels are in Jakarta's central business district.

Past tensions

The attacks come just weeks after peaceful presidential elections, won by incumbent President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

The country of 240 million people has been praised in recent years for maintaining a pluralist democracy while finding and punishing radical Islamists responsible for a series of bombings five years ago.

Church bombings in 2000 killed 19 people.

Bomb attacks on two nightclubs in Bali in October 2002 killed 202 people, most of them Australian.

The Marriott Hotel was the target of a bomb attack in August 2003 in which 13 people were killed. A bomb outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta in 2004 killed nine people.

Since then, a combination of new laws, anti-terror training, international cooperation and reintegration measures have kept Indonesia peaceful, analysts have said.


lols.......When we thought terrorism is dwindling down the drain....they've come back. It just makes it feels that the effort and reputation Indonesia have been building is a waste of time. icon_neutral.gif
skyisdalimit
I heard Ritz Carlton is the hotel where Man Utd delegation will stay. Would the match between Man utd vs Indonesia All stars at 20th July be cancelled ? According to plan they will land at indonesia at saturday night.
flipcombatmedic
i fu-king hate Jemaah.
Ralf
More of this terror bull(edit)!
Sick of these c(edit)ts who prize their ideology higher than the lives of people.
I reckon that they are just hiding behind their ideology in order to vent their own personal pent up frustrations.
They just got the agro in them and use religion, or whatever ideology is handy, as an excuse to go for a thrill kill.

Man ! Just when Indonesia was looking so cool..... and now this.

Anybody know if these were triggered remotely or if it was another deluded martyr ?
The hotel where I am staying in Sydney does not get SBS TV, so I can't get any information, and this computer in the lobby keeps crashing.
furansizuka
$hit! I've to work overnight today cry2.gif daymn bombers!
Ralf, according to Sidney Jones, this is JI revenge over the execution of two Bali bombers recently. But president SBY accused Prabowo, that he is the master behind this, and that this tragedy is a personal attack against him. For the first time I feel regret not going Swiss.
Majapahitans
QUOTE (Ralf @ Jul 17 2009, 07:07 AM) *
More of this terror bull(edit)!
Sick of these c(edit)ts who prize their ideology higher than the lives of people.
I reckon that they are just hiding behind their ideology in order to vent their own personal pent up frustrations.
They just got the agro in them and use religion, or whatever ideology is handy, as an excuse to go for a thrill kill.

Man ! Just when Indonesia was looking so cool..... and now this.

Anybody know if these were triggered remotely or if it was another deluded martyr ?
The hotel where I am staying in Sydney does not get SBS TV, so I can't get any information, and this computer in the lobby keeps crashing.


The Police officer confirmed two suicide bombings.
One in Airlangga restaurant, Ritz Carlton, and one in Sailendra restaurant, JW Mariott...
The Ritz bomber's head still recognizeable, and the Mariott one is damaged, but the face skin is still can be identified... The sketch of suicide bombers probably will be released shortly, maybe tomorrow...

I'm went there and stuck since 9 AM outside the police line 200 metres from Mariott blast ... Now I'm workin on infographics... gotta work guys...

I HATE those Terrorist...! icon_confused.gif

Condolence for all victims and those whom suffer this horrible terror.... Rest In Peace....


QUOTE (furansizuka @ Jul 17 2009, 06:16 AM) *
$hit! I've to work overnight today cry2.gif daymn bombers!
Ralf, according to Sidney Jones, this is JI revenge over the execution of two Bali bombers recently. But president SBY accused Prabowo, that he is the master behind this, and that this tragedy is a personal attack against him. For the first time I feel regret not going Swiss.


SBY sounds ridiculous this time.... icon_confused.gif
DutchEastIndiesMan
The reputation we had build during the past years....all gone in a few hours.

Well Good luck guys to those who's working on it.
furansizuka
9 people killed including 2 bombers, 2 people have been identified. Both are the citizen of New Zealand and Australia. Deep condolence for the innocent victims. The executor pretended as the hotel guest and according to the security, they actually heard the beep sound when they checked his luggage but they just presumed the sound was coming from the notebook because he carried the bomb in a notebook bag. He checked in since 15 Jul.
XxRyoChanxX
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Jul 17 2009, 10:03 AM) *
9 people killed including 2 bombers, 2 people have been identified. Both are the citizen of New Zealand and Australia. Deep condolence for the innocent victims. The executor pretended as the hotel guest and according to the security, they actually heard the beep sound when they checked his luggage but they just presumed the sound was coming from the notebook because he carried the bomb in a notebook bag. He checked in since 15 Jul.


^ so it could've been prevented!!!!!!!!!! bawling.gif bawling.gif

this is really a setback for Indonesia, we were just celebrating with the recent election... I just feel really sad right now bawling.gif
tangawizi
this suxx big time...!

majjy, furan... sad to know u hv to cover this tragic outrage of a news

hope u guys keep yr selves safe!! i bet gc's @$$ must be shaken!!
FutureMan
Hopefully there will be no more terrorist attacks this year. Hmm, but you never now. I don't remember the one in 2005, only the 2002 Bali and 2003 Hotel attacks. Security is good there as I remembered back in 2006. It could be an inside job as these hotels and security teams check your cars and use metal detectors. Something must have slipped through the detectors. A bad day, but not as bad as last year Mumbai, India or terrorist attacks /war in Pakistan. Hopefully this wont deter a possible later year visit in Jakarta by President Obama icon_neutral.gif .
DutchEastIndiesMan
^You're trying to focus your criticisms on the security of the hotels...but at the end of the day they are there only to provide minimal security and maintain law and order in the hotels.
We can't really say that it was their fault. It's BIN who we should be asking, how could they not see this threat ? Last time i heard they got it under control and yesterday we were taken completely by surprise.

I hope it won't deter Obama to come....since it had already deterred ManU......

I agree with Majy SBY does sound ridiculous claiming that it was Prabowo. Prabowo would be a leading candidate for 2014 why would he risked that for losing the 2009 one.

rasibiduk
Prabowo has always a shady side of him. I remember when I witnessed the 98 riot, there were so many questions about the incident esp. who brought all these hoodlums from Lampung by the drove in trucks? These are the people who actually pillaged, raped and burned malls. Who are these people? Who paid them? Well..the whispers around town at the time, it was Prabowo who mastermind everything for the same reason: to distract the public and brings back a strong military government under a strong leadership (just like Soeharto did in '66). But his plan backfired, the people (students) demanded Soeharto to step down instead and handing the power to Habibie. Thus Prabowo left the country (Jordan) soon afterward.

Fast forward to 2009, Indonesian people mostly forgive or forget, the coast is clear. And now this bombing happened, and the election just finished. Who are the losing candidate? When I heard the bombing- I actually thought: Prabowo!

Of course, these are all just talk of the town, no one actually knows what happened at the time. Like so many episodes of modern Indonesian history. We will probably hear Jamaah Islamiyah or the outlaw Malaysian bomber Dr. Azahari mentioned too in the coming days.
materialgurl
http://www.saigon-gpdaily.com.vn/International/2009/7/72602/

INTERNATIONAL

Saturday ,Jul 18,2009, Posted at: 13:02(GMT+7)

Indonesia attacks 'clearly linked' to Malaysian extremist: official

The twin suicide bombings of luxury hotels in Jakarta were "clearly linked" to Malaysian-born extremist Noordin Mohammed Top, the man believed behind the 2002 Bali bombing, a senior counter-terrorism official said Saturday.


Indonesia's President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono holds up pictures released by the Indonesian intelligence agency as he speaks during a news conference at the presidential place in Jakarta 17, 2009.

"From the modus operandi, this is clearly linked to Noordin M. Top," the security ministry's anti-terror desk chief, Ansyaad Mbai, was quoted as saying by state-run Antara news agency.

At least nine people were killed and up to 50 were injured in Friday's attacks on the JW Marriott and the Ritz-Carlton hotels in downtown Jakarta.

No group has claimed responsibility but police have said the home-made bombs were identical to those used in previous attacks linked to Noordin, a master bomb-maker and leader of a splinter group of the Jemaah Islamiyah network.

The former accountant and violent Islamist has been on the run since allegedly masterminding the 2002 bombings on the resort island of Bali, which killed more than 200 people.

Mbai said Friday's attacks proved that Noordin's group was still capable of sophisticated operations despite a major crackdown by Indonesian police on violent extremists over the past decade.

"Before, suicide bombings took place outside, at a hotel compound or something. But this, in the middle of a tight security system, shows they can penetrate to reach their prime target," he said.

"This incident proves that they are still strong and it should be a priority to capture the principal actor, that is Noordin M. Top. As long as the actor isn't caught, all efforts to anticipate anything are in vain."

Local media in March reported Noordin narrowly evaded capture in East Java after seeking treatment for a liver illness.

Police said the bombs used Friday were the same as devices discovered at an Islamic boarding school in Central Java last week during a raid that was reportedly part of the ongoing search for Noordin.
materialgurl
Georgia Tech has an expert on terrorism currently in Jakarta - Justin Hastings, assistant professor at the Sam Nunn School of International Affairs at Georgia Tech talks about recent bombings in Jakarta.

Hastings is an expert on rogue states and security issues in Asia, including nuclear weapons doctrine, counter-proliferation issues and state involvement with criminal activities. He is also an expert on non-military actors in military conflict, such as terrorist and insurgent groups, smugglers and pirates.

Hastings has conducted field research in China and Southeast Asia. He has previously worked for the U.S. Department of Defense, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and the Institute for Defense Analyses. He has also been affiliated with the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies in Singapore and was a Public Policy and Nuclear Threats Fellow at the University of California's Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation.

Here's a sample of what he has to say:

“The explosions in Jakarta on Friday morning targeted top-end hotels frequented by westerners, including the JW Marriott Hotel, which was attacked in 2003 by an informal faction of Jemaah Islamiyah led by Noordin Top. Given the repeat attack on the same location, it is certainly possible that Noordin Top’s faction is responsible, but other groups in Indonesia, such as various elements of Darul Islam, are certainly capable of it. It would not be surprising if the actual bombing network turns out to be composed of people drawn from various organizations brought together by ideology, kinship and/or training ties. If Noordin Top was involved, it is likely he found a new bomb maker, since his specialty is in recruitment and motivation, not bombmaking, as some reports claim.

"The checkpoints at hotels and malls in Jakarta are security theater to an even greater extent than the largely useless TSA in the United States. Guards routinely allow people through who have set off the metal detector, do not pat down anyone (thus allowing suicide vests through), give cursory checks of only one compartment in bags, and do not give any indication that they know what to look for when using the X-ray machines.

"With enough surveillance and attention to detail, terrorists could easily get through the security, assuming they even bothered to come through the entrance, and did not simply smuggle people or bombs in by bribing or otherwise compromising hotel employees. Attacking hotels that do have such elaborate security set-ups is a good way to demonstrate that the terrorists are evolving tactically. This stands in opposition to the 2004 attack on the Australian embassy nearby, where Noordin’s faction placed a car bomb outside the gates without penetrating the complex, and hoped that the size of the explosion would kill a large number of people."
theLost_chnBoy
I really hate those people who have ill intention, after 4 years of free bombs/terrorist and its suddenly takes place, 2 days before Manchester united have a match in Jakarta. There is no better timing, isn't it? They got the attention, and Indonesian looks bad again in international affair. Hate to answer my colleagues question about this bombing -_-;
skyisdalimit
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Jul 17 2009, 07:16 PM) *
$hit! I've to work overnight today cry2.gif daymn bombers!
Ralf, according to Sidney Jones, this is JI revenge over the execution of two Bali bombers recently. But president SBY accused Prabowo, that he is the master behind this, and that this tragedy is a personal attack against him. For the first time I feel regret not going Swiss.


actually, I thought of one of the losing capres-es to be responsible for the bombing. Of course, I suspect the terorrist group too. And yeah~~~ neighboring country(s) too. All the hard work to recover Indonesia image went down to drain just like that. sigh~~~~

we did it once, we will recover again. I believe in the fighting spirit of the Indonesians. Even if the bombings take place 10,000; 100,000,000, or 1,000,000,000,000 times, Indonesians will stand up again and again until peace and harmony are restored back on our beloved Tanah air.
skyisdalimit
man utd edited pic.

firdausj
Kali ini masyarakat Indonesia, khususnya yang tinggal di Jakarta, nggak terepengaruh sama terror terakhir ini ... mereka bersikap biasa-biasa saja dan tetap melanjutkan kegiatan rutin seperti biasa ..

Hanya satu yang paling mengganggu .. komentar SBY yang yang emosional, ngawur, sembrono dan malah memperkeruh situasi karena membuat spekulasi adanya hubungan bom ini dengan masalah Pilpress. Tapi untungnya pernyataan ini kemudian dibantah oleh Kapolri dan Menko PolHukam,

QUOTE
Impressions on how Indonesia reacted to the bombings
July 18, 2009

Unspun penned this for Malaysian paper The Star last night. Its my impressions about the reaction to the Ritz-Carlton-JW Marriott bombings in Jakarta.Was told that they are using it today but haven’t been able to check.
If there is an overarching phrase to describe how Indonesians reacted to the bombings at the Ritz Carlton and JW Marriott hotels yesterday it would be “in stride”.


As can be expected of such a momentous and violent incident that saw at least eight people dead and dozens injured, there was a spectrum of reactions ranging from despair and sadness to defiance and anger. By and large, however, Indonesians, who have lived through a spate of bombings six years ago and before that riot and demonstrations when Suharto fell, took the bombings in stride.

To be sure, the bombings were a distraction. Office workers glued themselves to the TV to see the latest developments in the aftermath of the bombs, that took place just as the working day begun. The more tech savvy reached for their handphones, computers and Twitter and Facebook accounts. The result was a surprisingly rational appraising of the situation as it went as Twitterers regulated each other and the mainstream media.

Shortly after the explosions, for instance, the TV stations were already concluding that the explosions were the result of bombs. Twitterers roundly criticized the TV stations for coming to premature conclusions. At that time the only facts that were certain were that there had been two explosions, and nobody knew exactly what the causes were. The TV stations were also slow off the mark, showing Google Earth-type satellite photos of Mega Kuningan, a business district in downtown Jakarta where both the Ritz-Carlton and Marriott Hotels were located.

Some Indonesians said over Twitter that they were sad and angry at the perpetrators, other said they wanted to know who was behind this. Others were more nonchalant, wondering whether Manchester Untied, that was scheduled to land in Indonesia Saturday, would cancel their visit because of the bombing. They also wondered whether other international artistes woudl cancel their engagements in Indonesia. Others merely shrugged and said “here we go again…”

By mid-morning the television stations were already on the scene and provided live footage of the carnage. Indonesians saw the damage done to the hotels, police climbing into the hotels with surgical masks and rubber gloves to investigate the scene and, in a fit of tastelessness, graphic images of wounded victims.

By then there were also rumors swirling around Jakarta that there had been another explosion at Muara Angke, that a bomber was caught trying to enter FX, an entertainment-oriented mall near the Senayan Sports Complex; and that eight bombs will go off in Jakarta, mainly in malls. The rumors all turned out to be false but that didn’t deter many Jakartans from avoiding the shopping malls during lunch time, “just in case”. I passed by Pacific Place, a new shopping mall next to the Indonesia Stock Exchange and it was extremely quiet. Away from the malls, however, it was life as usual as the Friday lunch crowd carried on with life as if there had been no bombings.

After Friday Prayers President Susilo Bambang Yudhono addressed the nation live on national TV. He was visibly emotional and livid and demonstrated the most emotion since coming to power more than five years ago. He called the terrorists Dracula and said that by their act they had sought to destroy the past five years efforts at rebuilding Indonesia.

He then said some things that left many Indonesian observers puzzled. he aid that their has been a conspiracy against him being made president for a second term. It has been barely to weeks after the presidential elections in which SBY, according to all quick counts, won by a landslide. He then shoed screen grabs of a video where masked gunmen used his image for target practice. he said that he had been told by indonesian intelligence that there were forces conspiring against him being reinstalled as President, that these forces threatened to make Indonesia like Iran. He then went on to pledge that he would go all out in fighting against terrorism.

Some observers found his reference to forces against his reinstallation cryptic and confusing, wondering if this is a prelude to some sort of political putsch. Others said that they sympathized with him. He had been through a lot and had put in a lot of energy to getting Indonesia on track. For all the shortcomings of his speech, they said, their sympathies are with him. Besides he’s the only viable presidential candidate they’ve got.

By late afternoon some of that sympathy had turned to defiance and a need to unite. Indonesian Twitterers began changing their avatars to red and white, the colors of the Indonesian flag, and posting messages such as “you can bomb us all you want. we are not afraid. we will fight you.”Others said they were “disappointed and angry. Who’s behind this?” and “anger at the bombers who are spoiling Indonesia’s image”

No doubt over the next few days and weeks Indonesia and the world will be looking for answers behind the bombings. There will be displays of unity, defiance. There will be sorrow and mourning for the victims and commiserations with their families. But the important thing to note coming out of this incident is that the Indonesians are taking the bombings in stride and carrying on their lives as normally as they can. Thy have been through much, seen much and experienced much. This bombing this is but yet another challenge along the road. In taking things in stride, and refusing to be cowed or frightened by the bombings, the Indonesians are probably delivering the most potent blow against the terrorists.
Ralf
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Jul 18 2009, 02:39 AM) *
i bet gc's @$$ must be shaken!!
Has anybody heard from our long time member GC ? Is he OK ?

Thanks to everyone for info, opinions and news updates.... I can't get any news in this sports mad backwoods hotel.
materialgurl
this bombing thing doesn't affect Indonesian people in general. people still crammed in malls and streets today coz it's weekend. and this night the regional music award APM (indonesia-malaysia-singapore) is still going on in jakarta. if the terrorists goal is to make us afraid, they're wrong.
senyum
A friend of mine who just lives near the hotels felt her apartment shook..btw Joel Madden posted this on Twitter
"Don't get your impression of indonesia from the news, It is one of my favorite places in the world and the people there rule. Dumb terrorist"
JoelMadden: "Its sad news, but it wont scare me from going back to Jarkarta. That place is awesome, definitely going back this year or next and Bali 2..."

(http://twitter.com/JoelMadden)
JoeRagan
QUOTE (DutchEastIndiesMan @ Jul 18 2009, 12:55 AM) *
^You're trying to focus your criticisms on the security of the hotels...but at the end of the day they are there only to provide minimal security and maintain law and order in the hotels.
We can't really say that it was their fault. It's BIN who we should be asking, how could they not see this threat ? Last time i heard they got it under control and yesterday we were taken completely by surprise.

I hope it won't deter Obama to come....since it had already deterred ManU......

I agree with Majy SBY does sound ridiculous claiming that it was Prabowo. Prabowo would be a leading candidate for 2014 why would he risked that for losing the 2009 one.

Agree, terrorist just have to be correct once while the hotel's satpam have to be correct all the time.
The hotels while they are among the most secure places in Jakarta it will not deter any motivated terrorists who have time and money in their disposal to do their dastardly act.
But in the grand scheme of things while the police round up the usual "suspects" -what we are all talking about so far is just addressing the symptoms, but not the cause- could it be all boil down to perebutan kekuasaan/wealth among the rouge elites, the power that be?
Nothing is what it seems.
XxRyoChanxX
QUOTE (senyum @ Jul 18 2009, 09:37 AM) *
A friend of mine who just lives near the hotels felt her apartment shook..btw Joel Madden posted this on Twitter
"Don't get your impression of indonesia from the news, It is one of my favorite places in the world and the people there rule. Dumb terrorist"
JoelMadden: "Its sad news, but it wont scare me from going back to Jarkarta. That place is awesome, definitely going back this year or next and Bali 2..."

(http://twitter.com/JoelMadden)


beerchug.gif
cheers to that! icon_wink.gif
skyisdalimit
Until now, is there any side who claim to be responsible for last friday bombings? cos normally terrorist groups would self-proclaim after they attacked their targets.
furansizuka
Kaka Slank on APM:


The video laugh.gif
http://www.skycrewz.net/blog/video-kaka-sl...ar-di-apm-2009/
DrGieL3
^^

Do you want to say that Malaysians are bombers and trouble makers in your country? icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif
firdausj
QUOTE (DrGieL3 @ Jul 20 2009, 04:12 PM) *
^^

Do you want to say that Malaysians are bombers and trouble makers in your country? icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif


Beredar Kabar Nurdin M Top Cs Adalah Intelijen Malaysia !!
Minggu, 19 Juli 2009, 06:33 WIB

Heboh di Internet kini dikatakan bahwa negara Malaysia secara sengaja menyelundupkan teroris ke Indonesia yang terbukti sejak paska reformasi menjadi momok sendiri soal peledakan bom di Indonesia.

Jelas kabar ini belum di ketahui secara pasti, karena isu ini beredar melalui Instant Messanger.

Dalam pesan yang diterima, Minggu (18/7) dini hari yang mulai beredar luas tersebut dikatakan bahwa para otak pelaku bom di BEJ, Bali 1-2 , JW Marriot 1-2, dan Ritz Carlton serta sejumlah ledakan bom di tempat lainnya adalah permainan intelijen pemerintah Malaysia yang secara sengaja dikirimkan ke Indonesia untuk menghancurkan negara RI dan menjatuhkan citra keamanan di Indonesia buruk.

Dalam aksinya kinerja para intelijen tersebut membuat sebuah jaringan yang dalam merekrut para anggotanya di Indonesia menggunakan kata JIHAD.

Soal tuduhan intelijen Malaysia tersebut cukup berlandaskan, bukti jika di telaah, Noordin M Top dan Dr. Azahari adalah warga asal Malaysia yang menjadi otak pelaku pemboman di Indonesia serta Zulkifli yang menjadi pembantu keduanya.

Dan dalam pesan Instant Messanger itu ketiga orang teroris tersebut merupakan intelijen Malaysia yang dekat dengan salah satu raja negara bagian.

Efek dari peledakan bom tersebut, salah satunya kini secara perlahan para wisman lebih sreg ke negeri yang dikatakan satu rumpun tersebut.(Fz/Int)

Berita8
furansizuka
QUOTE (DrGieL3 @ Jul 20 2009, 05:12 AM) *
^^

Do you want to say that Malaysians are bombers and trouble makers in your country? icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif

Nope. Why do you suddenly think that way? laugh.gif

kaka slank showing his anger to the bombers where ever they came from.




Hey guys, visit http://twitter.com/indonesiaunite biggthumpup.gif
Majapahitans
QUOTE (firdausj @ Jul 20 2009, 08:36 AM) *
Beredar Kabar Nurdin M Top Cs Adalah Intelijen Malaysia !!
Minggu, 19 Juli 2009, 06:33 WIB

Heboh di Internet kini dikatakan bahwa negara Malaysia secara sengaja menyelundupkan teroris ke Indonesia yang terbukti sejak paska reformasi menjadi momok sendiri soal peledakan bom di Indonesia.

Jelas kabar ini belum di ketahui secara pasti, karena isu ini beredar melalui Instant Messanger.

Dalam pesan yang diterima, Minggu (18/7) dini hari yang mulai beredar luas tersebut dikatakan bahwa para otak pelaku bom di BEJ, Bali 1-2 , JW Marriot 1-2, dan Ritz Carlton serta sejumlah ledakan bom di tempat lainnya adalah permainan intelijen pemerintah Malaysia yang secara sengaja dikirimkan ke Indonesia untuk menghancurkan negara RI dan menjatuhkan citra keamanan di Indonesia buruk.

Dalam aksinya kinerja para intelijen tersebut membuat sebuah jaringan yang dalam merekrut para anggotanya di Indonesia menggunakan kata JIHAD.

Soal tuduhan intelijen Malaysia tersebut cukup berlandaskan, bukti jika di telaah, Noordin M Top dan Dr. Azahari adalah warga asal Malaysia yang menjadi otak pelaku pemboman di Indonesia serta Zulkifli yang menjadi pembantu keduanya.

Dan dalam pesan Instant Messanger itu ketiga orang teroris tersebut merupakan intelijen Malaysia yang dekat dengan salah satu raja negara bagian.

Efek dari peledakan bom tersebut, salah satunya kini secara perlahan para wisman lebih sreg ke negeri yang dikatakan satu rumpun tersebut.(Fz/Int)

Berita8



^^^ Interesting conspiracy theory....
However it seems like just like another long-shot accusations.
Just like some Thailand accussations that Malaysian stood behind the unrest and revolt of their muslim majority southern provinces.
Still needs a lot of evidence... and I'm sure this will offended Malaysian Government...

Anyway... I find its fascinating: Why terrorist always targeted Indonesia as the very site to perform their sinister horrible deeds... icon_sad.gif

Indonesia is unique... we're the example of how democracy and majority Islamic faith can co-exist and thrive peacefully... Also the example of how plurality and diversity thrive. The very idea abhorred and detested by intolerance-monolithic-religious (in this case... Islamist) extremist and terrorist. They don't want Indonesia to become democratic and somehow secular modern country, they want Indonesia to be a theocratic country based on the Taliban or Iranian models (or to some extent, Malaysian model of how deeply Islamic faith has influenced laws and politics), they think it would be better than present secular-democratic Indonesia.

Since the reformation era in 1998, Indonesia is probably perceived as "the beacon" of freedom, the example of democracy for Asian countries. For neighboring regimes, the spirit of freedom and democracy ignited by Indonesian People Power "Reformasi" is a nightmare for the survival of their power.

Probably now Indonesia is viewed by its neighbour just like France in 18th century after the French Revolution. The idea of freedom and the abolition of dynastic royal houses is dangerous idea for European royalties and kingdoms at that time, therefore they united to contained, isolated, and try to destroyed this new republic.

The country that fear the spirit of "Indonesian Reformasi" spilled and infected their politics is..... no surprise... Malaysia. That's why somehow our neighbouring countries seems to fueled and nurtured suspicions among one another, and make your conspiracy theory somewhat.., interesting. To some degree..., probably other "proxy democracy" such as Singapore, Brunei, Myanmar, and Thailand also "fear" this people democratic revolution. That's why somehow Malaysia always nurtured "bad perception" on Indonesian reformation, freedom and democracy, and highlighted bad aspects of Indonesia such as poverty, corruption, etc...

The other thing is... probably its convinience to target Indonesia: Indonesia is vast, large in area and population, somebody easily blend in and dissapear in the crowd...
Large populations also means hard to monitor and control. And also means a lot of uneducated, poor and fanatics souls that could be easily influenced and recruited by the terrorist mastermind...
On the other hand, I think the extremist viewed Malaysia as already "on the right track"... The example of how deeply Islamic-influenced their laws and politics are, the imposed rules of "modesty" and chastity in dress in the spirit of religious faith, the existance of "religious police" that meddling in domestic religious case, despite muslims only slightly majority in overall Malaysian population. etc... A little religious-led revolution (if not opposed by non-Muslim Chinese or Indian Malaysian) could change Malaysia into Iran or Afghanistan model of politics in no time.

There you got it... that's probably why the terrorist always targeted Indonesia rather than Malaysia.
Unlike the theory you've presented, I tend to separate the Terrorist with Malaysian authorities... But somehow they both shared common sentiments: "deteste and fear" of "Indonesian Reformasi" and our newly found democracy and freedom of speeches and expressions...
Just look how lame their comments on youtube about Kaka's performing his freedom of expression by flashing his underwear...: "Bomber Kiss My...." icon_smile.gif Kaka Slank Bukak Seluar di APM2009 (HQ)
Its too much for their "modest-pious" soul.... they are really miserable.... icon_smile.gif

But they couldn't do anything becoz it was held in Jakarta, Indonesia... I imagine Kaka would be arrested by their religious police if this show was held in Malaysia... icon_wink.gif
(God... I love Indonesian freedom...!)
galvatron
Other Conspiracy theory is Malaysia play Manchester United twice after this bombing ,if this bombing not happen ,Indonesia will play Manchester United today ,malaysia FA benefit from this bombing ,and the bomber happen to be malaysian.
Crystallised Dream
QUOTE (galvatron @ Jul 21 2009, 01:10 AM) *
Other Conspiracy theory is Malaysia play Manchester United twice after this bombing ,if this bombing not happen ,Indonesia will play Manchester United today ,malaysia FA benefit from this bombing ,and the bomber happen to be malaysian.


Wow, any conspiracy theory to put Malaysia in a bad light. You're like saying Manchester United is so easily goaded by cash and that's it. Unfortunately for these conspiracy theorists Australia has also offered MU a million dollars to play in their field instead and MU rejected it. How come no one says anything about Australia? These people actually offered MU the money in broad daylight shamelessly, I would think that this would've saved the conspiracy theorists wasted time from coming up with another bull-loaded story.

MU has a right to play wherever they wish. I understand Indonesia's plea for MU to continue playing as a show of defiance against the face of terrorism. But I also think MU players have the right to decide whether or not they should risk their lives for this cause. Wayne Rooney's wife is expecting, many of these players have families worried for them. Read UK's DailyMail and even readers are supportive of them not going to Indonesia.

I should think that the best people to show defiance against these bombings are the Indonesians and the Indonesian govt themselves.

--

edit:

And I like very much how for these bombings some Indonesians like to highlight the fact that it is a Malaysian behind these catastrophes. Like they can wash their hands over this issue and indirectly shift the blame to Malaysia, Malaysians, anything Malaysian - just to divert the attention from Indonesia. Sorry la, I've come across this mentality in way too many blogs and forums already. Inasmuch as I condemn the act of Noordin M Top the Malaysian, I feel kinda fed up with this blame-shifting.

They've never really bothered to ask themselves who were the founders of JI and why so many of their fellow Indonesians willingly offer themselves to cause such a scale of destruction to their own country.

furansizuka
^ Do you feel upset because of the article one has posted below?
QUOTE (materialgurl @ Jul 18 2009, 02:34 AM) *
http://www.saigon-gpdaily.com.vn/International/2009/7/72602/

INTERNATIONAL

Saturday ,Jul 18,2009, Posted at: 13:02(GMT+7)

Indonesia attacks 'clearly linked' to Malaysian extremist: official

The twin suicide bombings of luxury hotels in Jakarta were "clearly linked" to Malaysian-born extremist Noordin Mohammed Top, the man believed behind the 2002 Bali bombing, a senior counter-terrorism official said Saturday.


Personally, I never think that far who the bombers are or where they come from. I just think they're all the same: not humans but evils. And actually I don't believe that Nurdin Top is the part of Malaysian intelligent.
furansizuka
QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Jul 20 2009, 11:51 AM) *
Anyway... I find its fascinating: Why terrorist always targeted Indonesia as the very site to perform their sinister horrible deeds... icon_sad.gif

Indonesia is unique... we're the example of how democracy and majority Islamic faith can co-exist and thrive peacefully... Also the example of how plurality and diversity thrive. The very idea abhorred and detested by intolerance-monolithic-religious (in this case... Islamist) extremist and terrorist. They don't want Indonesia to become democratic and somehow secular modern country, they want Indonesia to be a theocratic country based on the Taliban or Iranian models (or to some extent, Malaysian model of how deeply Islamic faith has influenced laws and politics), they think it would be better than present secular-democratic Indonesia.

Since the reformation era in 1998, Indonesia is probably perceived as "the beacon" of freedom, the example of democracy for Asian countries. For neighboring regimes, the spirit of freedom and democracy ignited by Indonesian People Power "Reformasi" is a nightmare for the survival of their power.

Probably now Indonesia is viewed by its neighbour just like France in 18th century after the French Revolution. The idea of freedom and the abolition of dynastic royal houses is dangerous idea for European royalties and kingdoms at that time, therefore they united to contained, isolated, and try to destroyed this new republic.

The country that fear the spirit of "Indonesian Reformasi" spilled and infected their politics is..... no surprise... Malaysia. That's why somehow our neighbouring countries seems to fueled and nurtured suspicions among one another, and make your conspiracy theory somewhat.., interesting. To some degree..., probably other "proxy democracy" such as Singapore, Brunei, Myanmar, and Thailand also "fear" this people democratic revolution. That's why somehow Malaysia always nurtured "bad perception" on Indonesian reformation, freedom and democracy, and highlighted bad aspects of Indonesia such as poverty, corruption, etc...

The other thing is... probably its convinience to target Indonesia: Indonesia is vast, large in area and population, somebody easily blend in and dissapear in the crowd...
Large populations also means hard to monitor and control. And also means a lot of uneducated, poor and fanatics souls that could be easily influenced and recruited by the terrorist mastermind...
On the other hand, I think the extremist viewed Malaysia as already "on the right track"... The example of how deeply Islamic-influenced their laws and politics are, the imposed rules of "modesty" and chastity in dress in the spirit of religious faith, the existance of "religious police" that meddling in domestic religious case, despite muslims only slightly majority in overall Malaysian population. etc... A little religious-led revolution (if not opposed by non-Muslim Chinese or Indian Malaysian) could change Malaysia into Iran or Afghanistan model of politics in no time.

There you got it... that's probably why the terrorist always targeted Indonesia rather than Malaysia.
Unlike the theory you've presented, I tend to separate the Terrorist with Malaysian authorities... But somehow they both shared common sentiments: "deteste and fear" of "Indonesian Reformasi" and our newly found democracy and freedom of speeches and expressions...
Just look how lame their comments on youtube about Kaka's performing his freedom of expression by flashing his underwear...: "Bomber Kiss My...." icon_smile.gif Kaka Slank Bukak Seluar di APM2009 (HQ)
Its too much for their "modest-pious" soul.... they are really miserable.... icon_smile.gif

But they couldn't do anything becoz it was held in Jakarta, Indonesia... I imagine Kaka would be arrested by their religious police if this show was held in Malaysia... icon_wink.gif
(God... I love Indonesian freedom...!)


Majjy, I love your thought. I think you should write it in KOMPAS, page 1 laugh.gif kiss.gif
Crystallised Dream
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Jul 21 2009, 11:11 AM) *
^ Do you feel upset because of the article one has posted below?


Personally, I never think that far who the bombers are or where they come from. I just think they're all the same: not humans but evils. And actually I don't believe that Nurdin Top is the part of Malaysian intelligent.


No, not that article. The laughable one that firdausj posted. Upset's not the word... more like fed up. It's like with every bombing in Indonesia there'd be people suspecting it's because Malaysia has a grudge against Indonesia or something. embarassedlaugh.gif
Majapahitans
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Jul 20 2009, 11:15 PM) *
Majjy, I love your thought. I think you should write it in KOMPAS, page 1 laugh.gif kiss.gif


Thank You....! icon_smile.gif Oh I'm soo flatered... icon_redface.gif
You just made my day... beerchug.gif

Majapahitans
QUOTE (Crystallised Dream @ Jul 20 2009, 09:00 PM) *
Wow, any conspiracy theory to put Malaysia in a bad light. You're like saying Manchester United is so easily goaded by cash and that's it. Unfortunately for these conspiracy theorists Australia has also offered MU a million dollars to play in their field instead and MU rejected it. How come no one says anything about Australia? These people actually offered MU the money in broad daylight shamelessly, I would think that this would've saved the conspiracy theorists wasted time from coming up with another bull-loaded story.

MU has a right to play wherever they wish. I understand Indonesia's plea for MU to continue playing as a show of defiance against the face of terrorism. But I also think MU players have the right to decide whether or not they should risk their lives for this cause. Wayne Rooney's wife is expecting, many of these players have families worried for them. Read UK's DailyMail and even readers are supportive of them not going to Indonesia.

I should think that the best people to show defiance against these bombings are the Indonesians and the Indonesian govt themselves.

--

edit:

And I like very much how for these bombings some Indonesians like to highlight the fact that it is a Malaysian behind these catastrophes. Like they can wash their hands over this issue and indirectly shift the blame to Malaysia, Malaysians, anything Malaysian - just to divert the attention from Indonesia. Sorry la, I've come across this mentality in way too many blogs and forums already. Inasmuch as I condemn the act of Noordin M Top the Malaysian, I feel kinda fed up with this blame-shifting.

They've never really bothered to ask themselves who were the founders of JI and why so many of their fellow Indonesians willingly offer themselves to cause such a scale of destruction to their own country.


I think MU can get their cowering asses back to rainy-cold british isle as if I care... (Hmmph those coward football club) icon_confused.gif
By not going to Indonesia under the fear of bombings, its not supporting Indonesia on fighting terrorism at all...
Their cowering act has gave the terrorist what they want: FEAR...
I hope ('curse') MU will no longer be the strongest football club in Europe.... icon_twisted.gif

Don't worry Crystal.. most of us are not that shallow and silly enough on putting blame on other countries (Malaysia) on this bombings...
We blame terrorism... But the fact that this bombings is masterminded by Malaysian Noordin M Top is not helping the promoting good sentiments about Malaysia on our side either...

The conspiracy theory is fueled by this suspicions... Many of circulating "political analysis" also highlighting about our countries somewhat troubled bilateral diplomacy. Teritorial disputes, migrant worker problem and abuses, etc. And some analyst says, indeed present Malaysian regime "doesn't appreciate" the democracy development in Indonesia and fear it will fueled and spill upon their domestic politics and menacing their power. So the govt controled media always do their best to higlighting the bad aspects of Indonesian political reformation, chaotic politics, poverty, corruptions, and terrorism. Its important for us to be well-informed, open-minded but remains sceptical and critical on the same time...
londoh
QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Jul 21 2009, 05:54 AM) *
I think MU can get their cowering asses back to rainy-cold british isle as if I care... (Hmmph those coward football club) icon_confused.gif
By not going to Indonesia under the fear of bombings, its not supporting Indonesia on fighting terrorism at all...
Their cowering act has gave the terrorist what they want: FEAR...
I hope ('curse') MU will no longer be the strongest football club in Europe.... icon_twisted.gif



38 postings, a lot of opinion about the bombers, even thoughts about the quality of MU but very little attention for the victims, strange icon_sad.gif
Majapahitans
QUOTE (londoh @ Jul 21 2009, 09:36 AM) *
38 postings, a lot of opinion about the bombers, even thoughts about the quality of MU but very little attention for the victims, strange icon_sad.gif


Actually Indonesian media coverage about victims are quite frequent... for example featuring a twice times bombing victim of Marriott I and Marriott II...
Also a news about New Zealand nationals Holcim director that dies in the hospital...
Enough to put shame on us and incite anger of people towards terrorist...
But maybe yes... its a cruel fact... we're more fixated and interested on venting our anger towards terrorist, speculating about the origin, motives, and conspiracy theory, or even criticizing MU rather than contemplating about the victim's fate...
tangawizi
Hahaha.... i was predicting when the Indonesia-Malaysia Rivalry will break out, and I can see it's starting... and guess what???

ITS STARTED BY MALAYSIANS AS USUAL..... icon_rolleyes.gif
materialgurl
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/07...y-forgives.html

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:18 AM

Amid bereavement, a family forgives

The Jakarta Post , Jakarta | Tue, 07/21/2009 2:30 PM | Headlines

Silence fell on South Jakarta's Tanah Kusir cemetery when Victor Mocodompis said he hoped the mastermind of Friday's bombings would be nabbed soon and that justice would be upheld.

The 70-year-old tried hard to be strong as the body of his 33-year-old son, Evert Mocodompis, was buried on Monday afternoon. Evert was working in the restaurant of the JW Marriott Hotel when a terrorist detonated a bomb there on Friday morning.

"We forgive them. The crime shall not be repaid with crime. Don't keep your anger until the sun sets!" Victor said loudly, his voice trembling, his eyes unable to hide the sorrow.

Evert is survived by his wife Ratna, a five-year-old daughter and son born just a day after the tragedy.

Shirley Latuihamallo, a senior official of the Christian Church in Western Indonesia (GPIB), said Ratna and the newborn baby were healthy in hospital.

"Ratna knows and is fully aware that her husband is being buried today. But the doctor suggested that she rest, so she could not attend the service," she explained.

"We haven't even chosen a name for the baby," Mona said, adding that the whole family felt a big loss over the death.

Shirley said the church had assigned its members to assist at home, at the funeral and in the hospital where Ratna was being treated.

The church, she said, would miss Evert, who was known as a calm man who took the time to get involved in events amid his busy schedule at home and in the work place.

"He was a bit quiet but very sociable. He was keen and had actively participated in church events ever since he was a teenager. He chaired the first youth movement organization at the church in the 1990s," Shirley said of Evert.

Mona, Victor's cousin, said Farida Mocodompis, Evert's mother, was also unable to attend the funeral, as she had fainted earlier in the morning. Farida suffered from hypertension and was taken to the Sari Asih Hospital in Cileduk.

Vice president of the JW Marriott Hotel Jakarta, John Norton, said that Evert, the hotel's banquet chef, had always given his best during his tenure at the hotel.

"For seven years Evert always gave his best to the company, with high spirits and dedication. We feel a great loss," he said at Evert's wake, as quoted by Antara.

Evert is among the nine people confirmed dead after twin bombs hit the JW Marriott and Ritz-Carlton hotels in Mega Kuningan, South Jakarta, on July 17. To date, only five victims have been identified. Aside from Evert, the identified victims included three Australians and one New Zealander.
materialgurl
read: Australian Bomb Victim's Family Hold No Hatred For Indonesia
http://thejakartaglobe.com/home/australian...ndonesia/319344


also read interesting article from Erik Stern, one of the Ritz Charlton guests/bombing witnesses when the tragedy happened.

July 21, 2009

Erik Stern

In the Moments After Tragedy, Jakarta’s Response Was Mixed

First, I heard a piercing sound, reminding me of the 7.3-magnitude earthquake in 2007. Yet no one reacted. Five minutes later, I heard a thunderous boom, followed by silence, and the sound of bending and breaking, with a white wall of smoke blocking all view, racing outward and upward. There were a few screams, but mostly I heard the sound of destruction and saw what seemed like the building being obliterated before me. The only pathway and exit was behind me, and I followed the only other person that I could see down the stairs, out onto the street and then onto the field.

What was it? It seemed like another earthquake. Others said that it was a horrific construction accident and that the first sound was a car wreck. All of us were wrong. It was terror returning to Mega Kuningan.

At that point, I realized that I was without my wallet, passports, cell phone, Blackberry and jacket. I had no identification or way to contact anyone without assistance.

I will not further describe what you have watched on television. I prefer to write an account of those who deserve praise in the aftermath of the tragedy. For some, it was their finest hour, while for others it proved their incompetence, incoherence and apathy. You will read of few surprises. Reputations were enlarged rather than changed.

Take the emergency services. They displayed grand ineptitude. It was at least 20 minutes before they were on the scene, and they employed no helicopters or technology to speed their movement. The families of any injured who died deserve restitution. The listlessness of the response teams compares to the useless US reaction to the New Orleans tempest.

Compare the response of the US Embassy. Once we were safely in the Oakwood building’s dining room, the US Embassy’s vice consul was there asking each person if he or she was a US citizen, if we were OK, if we had contacted loved ones and how he could assist. He was a sympathetic and helpful voice. No other embassy sent a representative.

The Ritz-Carlton employees could have been forgiven for falling into introspection, but they displayed aplomb and caring for each other and guests. The management was organized, friendly and helpful despite the heat of the sun and of the moment. Neither earthquake nor terror shook their commitment to their fellow “ladies and gentlemen” or their guests. This was my 40th visit, and I look forward to returning. If we follow the poor example of Manchester United, the terrorists win.

What about the crime scene agents? One decided to take my jacket, with my cell phone and passport, as “state evidence.” My insurance company says terrorism is not covered. Is theft covered?

Singapore Airlines deserves applause. My entry visa was in what is now a crime scene agent’s British passport. I had no flight back to Britain, but an airline employee overcame the trials facing me, getting me through immigration and back home without a financial penalty. All she asked in return was for me to not forget Jakarta and to return. She was the best send-off that Jakarta could provide.

Going forward, Indonesians and visitors are looking to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono for protection and retribution. He must dramatically enhance security and bring creativity to the prediction of future attacks. He must severely punish miscreants: The frightening Saudi Shariah system is severe, swift and certain. He should add conservative Islamic politicians to his coalition despite their poor election showing. He should be a productive force in the Middle East peace process.

SBY must ensure that Islamic schools teach the correct version of jihad and encourage religious leaders to provide a narrative that can defeat the terrorists’ defamation of Islam. The front line is not between the West and the Islamic world or between secular Muslims and religious Muslims, but between religious, modern Muslims and those who prefer a medieval version; they forget the Prophet Muhammad wrote the following: Those that kill the innocent will spend 10,000 years in hell.

Ten thousand years is a long time. The next weeks will test the people of Jakarta. Fewer foreigners will visit, isolating Indonesia. The economy may suffer. Normality will include the fear of a repeat. Terror terrorizes. I feel for Jakarta’s residents, especially the hotel staff who must return to the buildings and to the place where their lives were momentarily shattered.

A distortion of Islam destroyed the Ritz-Carlton’s restaurant. The best way for Jakartans to protest the attack, and for Muslims to celebrate the liberal and modern Islam they profess, is to return to the scene of destruction upon renovation. Let the sounds not be of destruction but of song, dance and nourishment.



Erik Stern is president international and managing director of PT Stern Stewart Indonesia.
Crystallised Dream
QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Jul 21 2009, 05:54 PM) *
I think MU can get their cowering asses back to rainy-cold british isle as if I care... (Hmmph those coward football club) icon_confused.gif
By not going to Indonesia under the fear of bombings, its not supporting Indonesia on fighting terrorism at all...
Their cowering act has gave the terrorist what they want: FEAR...
I hope ('curse') MU will no longer be the strongest football club in Europe.... icon_twisted.gif

Don't worry Crystal.. most of us are not that shallow and silly enough on putting blame on other countries (Malaysia) on this bombings...
We blame terrorism... But the fact that this bombings is masterminded by Malaysian Noordin M Top is not helping the promoting good sentiments about Malaysia on our side either...


Despite what I said about the mentality of some people, I do agree that Noordin M Top's identity as a Malaysian is not helping. And no, I do not think most of you are that shallow to shift the blame - I was only addressing a certain group of people. I'm sorry if it offended any one of you!


QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Jul 21 2009, 05:54 PM) *
The conspiracy theory is fueled by this suspicions... Many of circulating "political analysis" also highlighting about our countries somewhat troubled bilateral diplomacy. Teritorial disputes, migrant worker problem and abuses, etc. And some analyst says, indeed present Malaysian regime "doesn't appreciate" the democracy development in Indonesia and fear it will fueled and spill upon their domestic politics and menacing their power. So the govt controled media always do their best to higlighting the bad aspects of Indonesian political reformation, chaotic politics, poverty, corruptions, and terrorism. Its important for us to be well-informed, open-minded but remains sceptical and critical on the same time...


Really? I must be ignorant on that one. I don't have much to comment about what these 'political analysts' say, but as a Malaysian I do and have always hoped that Indonesia will be able to rise over the problems that's plaguing it now. I'm sure other Malaysians hope the same for Indonesians - after all it's quite sad having to see the poor and jobless illegally entering our country for the search of a better life, only of course to have some of them mistreated. But like they say, what doesn't kill you only serves to make you stronger - maybe by going through all these trials Indonesia will be able to grow stronger as a country and as a society.


tangawizi
To be honest with you Crystal, u've always come across as a reasonable person on political debate, but this time, i think u have jumped the gun by being all defensive about Malaysia's reputation and all... when everyone on AF Indo are pissed off with the terrorists, and not the country where the mastermind hails from. You andn some other msians are trying to stir $hit here... and I say this as an objective bystander.

Indonesians are entitled to be pissed off with the terrorists, but they don't blame the religion. They are entitled to be pissed off with the mastermind, but they don't necessarily blame the government of Malaysia.

I would have expected u to be embarassed that the mastermind hailed from malaysia, instead of coming on board here telling fellow indonesians what to do with their own country and their migrant workers blah blah blah.

Don't u think the fact that Noordin Top is the mastermind shows how dangerous Malaysia has become, how some elements in their society are leaning towards fundamentalist islam??

Don't apologise for haivng offended anyone here when your real intention is to offend in the first place...

my two cents worth here as a singaporean, u don't need to reply if u don't wish to offend any further with hypocritical posts ... icon_rolleyes.gif
materialgurl
Malaysia seems cannot handle Kaka Slank's Bombers Kiss My @$$ biggrin.gif too many condemn over the action but not a single one care to say sympathy toward the tragedy.
http://ohartis.com/apm-kaka-slank-bomber-kiss-my-@$$/

Crystallised Dream
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Jul 22 2009, 11:19 AM) *
To be honest with you Crystal, u've always come across as a reasonable person on political debate, but this time, i think u have jumped the gun by being all defensive about Malaysia's reputation and all... when everyone on AF Indo are pissed off with the terrorists, and not the country where the mastermind hails from. You andn some other msians are trying to stir $hit here... and I say this as an objective bystander.

Indonesians are entitled to be pissed off with the terrorists, but they don't blame the religion. They are entitled to be pissed off with the mastermind, but they don't necessarily blame the government of Malaysia.

I would have expected u to be embarassed that the mastermind hailed from malaysia, instead of coming on board here telling fellow indonesians what to do with their own country and their migrant workers blah blah blah.

Don't u think the fact that Noordin Top is the mastermind shows how dangerous Malaysia has become, how some elements in their society are leaning towards fundamentalist islam??

Don't apologise for haivng offended anyone here when your real intention is to offend in the first place...

my two cents worth here as a singaporean, u don't need to reply if u don't wish to offend any further with hypocritical posts ... icon_rolleyes.gif


Embarassed that the mastermind is from Malaysia? Of course I am! I never denied Noordin is a Malaysian or defended his act, in fact quite the contrary, as a Malaysian I'm disappointed that he and Azahari joined JI and masterminded these bombings.

I am not blind to the fact that Noordin and Azahari's involvement will put Malaysia into a bad light. I never tried to portray Malaysia as being all good and ignored the budding fundamentalists. In fact I'm perfectly aware of that, but if you want me to address the fundamentalists thoroughly then let's create a new topic where we can discuss this in a proper avenue. The budding of Fundamentalist Islam is a problem here as a region and is not only confined to certain countries, and so is its battle with Moderate Islam. I hope you also understand that most of my part about 'Malaysia's reputation' in the previous post was a response to galvatron instead of this topic as a whole.

And my whole quack about blame-shifting comes from browsing various forums and reading Indonesian blogs. Of course, I do not think they represent all Indonesians, which is why I used 'some' in my previous post. Maybe I have been a bit insecure, that I admit. But thank God for the Indonesian users here as I honestly find them a reasonable lot and easy to discuss with. Also how was I telling Indonesians what to do with their own country and how to deal with their migrant workers? I should think they know what's best for themselves. Pray tell.
tangawizi
Welll that's more like it .. a reasoned response to the tragedy at hand...

If I were Malaysian, I would be really worried about the problems at home (budding terrorism stemming from existing fundamentalism) instead of rubbing the indonesians up the wrong way..

I think those Msians and Indonesians who spend time stoking regional unstability through country rivalry are plain stupid! Our region doesn't need to play into the hands of terrorists by becoming petty and unstable thru such stupid quarrels and finger-pointing.

Fortunately on AF, I don't see many Indos, in fact, probably none who behave in such a way as to fan the anger... but on the Msian chat, ooooh... they are plenty over there... and I didn't consider u as one of them... so seeing u here on this thread, writing in such a tone of voice as to throw the ball back in the court of the Indonesians made me wonder why u had gone defensive on the folks here..

Other Indo chats may be fiesty full of hotheads, but not here... not unlesss... u are here to stoke the longstanding quarrel by citing other simmering problems like treatment of pembantus, national songs and folk dancing and some such $hit....

peace sista.. victory.gif
furansizuka
QUOTE (materialgurl @ Jul 21 2009, 01:29 PM) *
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/07...y-forgives.html

Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:18 AM

Amid bereavement, a family forgives



QUOTE (materialgurl @ Jul 21 2009, 01:40 PM) *
read: Australian Bomb Victim's Family Hold No Hatred For Indonesia
http://thejakartaglobe.com/home/australian...ndonesia/319344


also read interesting article from Erik Stern, one of the Ritz Charlton guests/bombing witnesses when the tragedy happened.

July 21, 2009

Erik Stern

In the Moments After Tragedy, Jakarta’s Response Was Mixed

The Ritz-Carlton employees could have been forgiven for falling into introspection, but they displayed aplomb and caring for each other and guests. The management was organized, friendly and helpful despite the heat of the sun and of the moment. Neither earthquake nor terror shook their commitment to their fellow “ladies and gentlemen” or their guests. This was my 40th visit, and I look forward to returning. If we follow the poor example of Manchester United, the terrorists win.

Singapore Airlines deserves applause. My entry visa was in what is now a crime scene agent’s British passport. I had no flight back to Britain, but an airline employee overcame the trials facing me, getting me through immigration and back home without a financial penalty. All she asked in return was for me to not forget Jakarta and to return. She was the best send-off that Jakarta could provide.

Erik Stern is president international and managing director of PT Stern Stewart Indonesia.


In hard times like this, somehow I'm glad that I'm Indonesian. I'm so proud of these people, the victims and et the heroes because they show us the strength, courage, mercy and forgiveness beerchug.gif Bless our country! If this happened some place else, do you think they would act the same way?

QUOTE (materialgurl @ Jul 21 2009, 11:54 PM) *
Malaysia seems cannot handle Kaka Slank's Bombers Kiss My @$$ biggrin.gif too many condemn over the action but not a single one care to say sympathy toward the tragedy.
http://ohartis.com/apm-kaka-slank-bomber-k...-@$$/


We don't need sympathy. It's enough to see Indonesians are very supportive of each other, and glad we can express our feelings free on our ways beerchug.gif

PS: no one discussing about Kaka's action in Indonesia n Singapore sites anyways..kekekekek.. biggrin.gif
Majapahitans
QUOTE (materialgurl @ Jul 21 2009, 11:54 PM) *
Malaysia seems cannot handle Kaka Slank's Bombers Kiss My @$$ biggrin.gif too many condemn over the action but not a single one care to say sympathy toward the tragedy.
http://ohartis.com/apm-kaka-slank-bomber-k...-@$$/


Yes.. their shallowness and "wrong put sensibility" astounds me... they condemned the mere undies-flash act by Kaka that meant to condemning the bomber, but none of them condemned the terrorist...
One of them said: "come on bombers! busted his @$$! kasi letop itu bontot mamat tuh sebab nak sangat!"
it shown their compassions and common sensibility is terribly poor... even celebrating the terror in Indonesia and rejoicing MU cancelation in Indonesian match... poor sick miserable souls... icon_sad.gif
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