How true do you think this is about Islam?

Sounds very scary and evil here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781
But how accurate do you think this documentary actually is? I seriously hope not.

Do you guys really believe that Muslims (who were made to believe in their religion due to the family which they are born into) who later converted to other religion or become agnostic deserve to be punish by death? And the other barbaric and brutal laws practised in some fundamentalistic non-secular countries where Islamic laws is the law of the state and everyone has to follow it even if they don't believe in Islam.

Do you guys believe that Islam should take over the world, and that non-secular "religious" states where everyone are forced to believe in Islam or otherwise will be treated as second-class citizens are just and a moral thing to do? Or do you agree that religious-states of any religion is unjust and that people have the right and freewill to make up their mind on what they want to believe without being prosecuted or treated differently?

That Islam should be integrated into politics, that religion and state should not be separate (and that "religion" can only be Islam)?

Do you guys believe that non-Muslims should have less rights than Muslims?

That people should be brutally murdered or punish in any way by the state-laws simply for speaking their thoughts which happens to be against Islam, while certain more extreme Imans freely and violently criticises other believe systems.

...etc etc.

Sorry if I sound ignorant, but I just hope to learn if this is the same type of Islam which is believed in Malaysia, or is the Malaysian's Islamic faith practised more moderate and progressive (compatible with modern-day philosophy of ethics). In the early days, Christianity also has a reputation of being violent, however they are now pretty much reformed and compatible with modern day send of human-ethics.
Malaysian muslims, please enlighten me on this.

Not accurate. Pure Slander!

Why listen to non Muslim in your effort to understand what Islam is?

Do you belief in the "SWORD"?
Islam ruled stretches from west coast of Africa to foothills of the Himalaya to west border of China for over 1000 yrs (700 - 1921AD) with TRUTH not "swords".

Yo see even with the tanks and the machine guns, the USA still cannot control Iraq. "You rule with TRUTH....and not guns".

Uhm, some of those interviewed are Islamic Scholars and Ex-Muslims.

But I'm glad to know that the Islam practised in Malaysia isn't like that.

So, I take it that you disagree with the idea of non-secular Islamic States and agree that people should be free to follow their own believes? That if a Muslim chooses to convert to another religion or renounces his faith (which he might simply be born into), they should have the freedom to do so according to their own free will?
And that you disagree with all the questions that I've listed?

In doubt that they really are scholars???

Ex-Muslims? or more likely are/were just Christian Arabs?
Beside their shallow & skewed Islamic knowledge, I doubt they are sincere....even to themselves?

Just the same....you are Buddhists, you are indoctrinated by your parents. You are an Atheist, you are indoctrinated by people around you. Those who were punished are the slanderers. If you just convert to other religion and just practicing it within yourselves no problem. How many non-Muslims being killed in Malaysia compared to other reverted Muslims in foreign countries say Germany.

Selimah Mat - a Malay-Muslim origin of Perlis, converted to Theravada Buddhism when married to a Thai Buddhist when she was kidnapped to Thailand while she was 16. Her grave is in Kok Khlang buried according to Buddhist rites, she died in her 70's. Not killed by any Shariah Law.







What kind of view-point you people always use beside of using Human-Rights issue to actually reverse-oppressing others?

On the contrary, Marwa el-Sherbini a Muslim Pharmacist of Egypt, stabbed to death in front of Judges in Germany by a Pro-Nazi jobless Russian just because she wear headscarves and orally abused as Terrorist-Whore. Is Islam = Terrorism? Why? Just because few people who bombed themselves in Indonesia and several places, then you say that Islam = Terrorism, Violence. What about Tamil Eelam? Is it representing Hindu Shaivaites = Terrorism?

Late Marwa with husband and kid



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marwa_El-Sherbini

How far can everyone accept different views? Muslim or non-Muslim alike?

Tamil Eelam/Hindu Terrorism/Non-Muslim Terrorism in Sri Lanka

A 20-days old baby succumbed to injuries of Sri Lanka Army (SLA) shelling on Sunday in the makeshift hospital at Puthumaaththa’lan within the safety zone. Recently, a pregnant mother whose abdomen was torn open and in the condition of the hand of the foetus coming out was admitted to the hospital, after the SLA shelling.

Meanwhile, as a result of the food shortage, children were seen standing in a long queue to receive gruel from a distribution centre run by the Tamils Rehabilitation Organisation on the Easter Sunday noon. The photos published here are self explanatory, but we caution readers of their strong content.



source: www.sibernews.com

Why not echo, Hindu Terrorist or Buddhist Terrorist or Taoist Terrorist instead of only Islam Terrorist? They were only mentioned as Sri Lankan Tamil Terrorist, while their terrorism also touching several religious areas.

So, you believe that people who criticises Islam ought to be murdered? What about Islamic Imans openly slandering other religions? Are you equally against that too?

Babies are born without knowledge of the existance any type of Gods of any religion. They have to be indoctrinated into believing in any type of Gods.
A lack of believe in the existence of any gods == Atheism simple as that. There is no doctrine to follow, just a disbelieve; very much like your disbelieve in Hindu gods, hence you're an Atheist with respect to Hindu gods.

I've already acknowledged that Malaysian Islamic practices isn't like those backward and disgusting and more extreme form of Islam which gives Muslims a bad image. If I'm not mistaken, disbelievers of the existance of a god named Allah isn't made to pay tax or treated as second class citizens just because they do not practice the faith.



Of course there are atrocities committed by people who believe in all kinds of ideology of believes. I'm not disputing that. I'm also against the idea of a Jewish state like Isreal, and they harsh and brutal take against the Palestinian people.

What I'm arguing is the kind of Islam practised in some of the more extreme Islamic nations like the Taliban where evil and babaric practices such as stoning or cutting off opposite limbs still exist as punishments. And it is irrespective of the few examples that you've provided as what's going in with people practising other religions, the argument still stands. Extreme version of Islamic practice exists, as depicted by that documentary, and that is a fact that can be easily seen in some parts of the world and migrated Muslims from those parts of the world into other countries who still hold onto those dark-aged mentality and has been a growing concern in Europe. Of course I'm not referring to Malaysian Muslims who are more educated and modern in their practice of Islam.

Please do not echo "western media" propaganda about the "Taliban" (actually just meant "student movement" in Arabic). Have you actually seen with your very own eyes that the "Taliban" actually practices stoning & cutting of people limbs?

Try walk into a Taliban community, and I won't be surprise if you came back very impressed....or even be back like Yvornne Ridley, http://www.muslimchannels.tv/component/opt...ideodirectlink/
http://www.counterpunch.org/dillon1.html

or join then as the American Taliban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh

or the Aussie Taliban.
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/200...date=2007-12-21

.....and there are many more German, French, Americans, British, Russian Talibans not captured and still currently fighting there in Afghanistan......
...and did you wonder why would they do that....and abandon their comfort livings in the west to stay hungry and dusty in Afghanistan deserted mountains?

have you heard of the word "Khorasan"? ....& the "non-Jewish" lost 10 tribes of Israel? ....and the Muslim Phattans (Pashtuns) Israeli traditions. .....and our prophet Muhammad prophecies about "Khorasan"?


The word "terrorist" , "evil" and Babaric was initially & historically referred by civilized mankind to the raiding nomadic tribes of Scythian grazing the Eurasian grassland up north the Kaukacus mountains range. Go back and study about them and tell where are they now?

"May God shows us all the right truthful path" .... Amen!!!

So are you saying that extreme form of Islam doesn't exist at all? That's really hard to believe.

What about the brutal and cruel murder of the Danish cartoonist for expressing his individual view OR the destruction of ancient massive Buddhist statues in Afgan, or the preaching of violence against Kaffirs by Imans migrated into western worlds caught in videos, and many protests with messages of violence like "kill those who insult Islam" and other uncivilised acts by those particular muslims, honour killings, murdering people (even their own blood) for converting or renouncing their faith in Islam, demand of imposing sharia laws by immigrated muslims in secular western states...etc. Do you dispute that something like that isn't happening at all but are all made-up by "western media" controlled by Jewish people (as I've frequently hear Muslim say) or other similar accusations? But that's besides the point, point is do you and majority of Malaysian muslims people condemn those backward and barbaric violent actions that some muslims are guilty of.

What about the massacre of 500,000 innocent Kurds, the historical Sunni-Shia conflict that has devoured millions lifes, the mass murder of 3 million Bangladeshi and raping of 250,000 innocent women during Paki-Bangla war? I can continue to discuss of the treatment of Christians, Qadiyani and Shia in Pakistan, Bahaai in Iran that is very tragic. Who invaded the Persian territory and destroyed the dazzling Persian civilization? Who initiate the invasion of India and decapitated the country? Who invaded Northern Africa and later Spain? History is in the open. Umar Al Khattab declare to exile all the Jews and Christians from Arabia and he was successful in his endeavour. Have you heard of Hajjaj Ibn Yusuf Assaqafi, Yazid Bin Muawiya? These people killed and murdered innocent people without pang of conscience. Have you heard of how the Abbasid under Abu Abbas As safah dealt with the Umayyads? They murdered them everywhere after assuming the caliphate. Your own history was full with murder and conspiracy to the hardcore. This is not a slander or Fitna fabricated by Jewish people that you people always like to put the blame on.

Just because a few Western people converted doesnt mean anything. Taliban's brutality is as obvious as the sun. They are racist Pashtun to the extremes , and look at what they have done with the minority Hazara people. Do you know the Hazara? I dont think so.

Please stop defending the indefensible.

Do you ever heard of tribal laws? Check Hindu laws and compare it with those people in Pakistan-Afghanistan and in certain places in India are practicing and they were claimed as Islamic law just because those who practiced those laws are now Muslim. Do you think it is easy for those tribes to leave their previous way of life, it took thousand years to change their mind-set. Culture and Religion is not the same thing, but those things are related.

I'm not supporting any massacring of human-being of any faith nor ethnics, but yet I'm still a Muslim. What's wrong with it? Just because we want to satisfy others we have to lose anything that we own? Go and check other threads in other forums how I wrote about other religions? It is more than pluralism I had practiced and I had been more open-minded even more open than an Atheist. I believe that Pluralism is not only not determined in Islam, but also in non-Muslim religion like Buddhist. How can I say this? I have many Buddhist friends, and they don't favor it when I talk about Vishnu Incarnation as Buddha. One of my auntie from South Thai too were threatened to be killed by her family member when she convert to Islam and she has to run to Malaysia side and seeking refuge from Muslim villagers in Malaysa. She was previously a Theravadin Buddhist. So, what people really scared of Islam is? And why people always magnify bad things about Islam when Muslim committing bad deeds? Aren't non-Muslim have religion and own values too?

Scholars sources please when you talk about invasions of India, Pakistan, and Iran? Also Shiites are considered as Muslim although there are certain bloody wars between them and Sunni. For me I don't like seeing Shiites and Sunnis killing each other or anyone. It is just like when I talk about Protestants being killed by Catholics? You will say that they are still Christians aren't you? Why is that so? It is because you want your ideology, understanding, and etc being implemented without any chance to others. Don't simply talk without written sources and documents. Talk step by step. What civilization came first and where? Then state those things above. War always happened in ancient times, but there is no CNN at that time to report. If Indians were forced to be Muslims how can the majority of that secular country today is still Hindus? They even succeed in demolishing the Babri Mosque of 15th C in Ayodhya, Gujarat as it was claimed being build over the site of god Rama nativity place.

In the same time an environment with multiple religion may also cause war in ancient time, it doesn't have to be on the base of racism. Buddhist monks were persecuted by Zoroastrians in Iran around the half of 3rd C when the high priest of Zoroastrian religion ordered the destruction of several Buddhist monasteries in Afghanistan, since the amalgam of Buddhism and Zoroastrianism mainfested in the form of a "Buddha-Mazda" deity appeared to him as heresy. So, are you going to accuse Islam for this too? Read it in Alexander Berzin, Historical Sketch of Buddhism and Islam in Afghanistan and Buddhists, November 2001, Online Article from the Berzin Archives.

Open up the whole history, no problem. From both side non-Muslim and Muslim sources.

Hev you ever did this to Islam? Like what I treat others\' faith?

From Thai Chat, how do you think as a Malaysian Muslim I am? Did I slander anyone in my posts as an example of a Muslim? How extreme I am can you see based from my writings? You can dig up my previous writings in previous threads about religion and racism. How do you define extremism? Just because I want to live my life as a person with faith I'm being accused as an extreme person, as an example? I don't say that anyone accuse me or anyone, it is just an example. Every people with a religion have their own "LAW." How do they define the LAW, is according to their scripture and tradition, like Hindus with their source of LAW in Dharmashastram and more discreetly came from Srutih (Chaturvedas/Vedas), Smartih (Puranas and Epics), and Atsharah (Practices). Two important sources of Hindu LAW or WAY OF LIFE is ManuSmartiH and YajnyavalkyaM, also AtmathushthiH (what is suitable for oneself).

Islam is also a WAY OF LIFE for those who live with it. It is not merely a philosophy... It is with scripture and also with Syariah (LAW). What is in Syariah? It is Aqeedah (Creed), Akhlak (Morality), Ibadah (Acts of Worship), Muamalah (Financial System), Munakahat (Matrimonial), and Jinayyah (Criminal). Syariah is Arabic term for "WAY OF LIFE," and it is synonymous to Deen which means "RELIGION," and Muslim religion is "ISLAM." I guess in Daoism also have that word from a character DAO, which means "THE WAY," so I guess it must be the way of life for Chinese. So, if you non-Muslim in Malaysia want us to leave any part in Syariah, you are actually asking us to leave our "WAY OF LIFE," on the other hand "Religion," just to satisfy you.

I did promote other's faith in several posts in basic form so that no one misunderstand it and at least gaining knowledge about them and as a sign of non-selfishness. How about you non-Muslims in Malaysia? Do you help promote Islam in a proper way or having right basic knowledge about Islam? Never seen that, except what had been portrayed by Western medias implanted in your minds more than your experiences in approaching Muslims of different background and racial identities.

How did I introduce Orthodox Hinduism in Thai Chat for ignorants? Did I slander Hindus? How do you people introduce Islam to others? Islam = Terrorism? Muslim = Killers, Bombers, Murderers? Wearing Veil Women = Islamic Whore?







http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...p;#entry4315363

If Datuk Nik Aziz is an extremist, do you think non-Muslim could live in his state? For 15 years he had administered his state, how is that this statue is still in Kelantan? Nobody bombs it, nor demolished it...



Wat Pothiviharn, Kampong Tok Bali, Kelantan





The symbol of Buddhism in Kelantan



Buddha in Lotus Posture in Kelantan, the largest statue in Kelantan



Do you think Muslim could have the same religious freedom in other countries administered by Communists, Socialists, Secular, Germany, France, Singapore or others? If so, can you provide us some pictures where is the biggest and largest mosque in non-Muslim majority countries, any place? Can they call for prayers loudly so that other Muslims who heard the calling can go to the mosque and pray in congregation? What about in China, will there be any Batu Caves and largest Golden Murugan Kartigeya statue and a quite big religious celebration or procession during Thaipusam like in Selayang and Thaipusam being declared state holiday? Will China government tolerate say, if Hindus were quite a number in China even if China is a Communist country? We need to compare it with Kelantan state, no need to look in the whole Malaysia. The state government of Kelantan too had contributed and involved in the development of the statue and temples.

Like I've already said, the Islam practices in Malaysia is generally more progressive compared to some of the non-secular Islamic states and some of those more backward Muslims migrating into Western countries from those Islamic states, with their honour killings, etc.

This is similar to the case of Christianity where it was a rather brutal religion until the more evil scriptures within the old-testaments were rejected.

Did you mean that the Taliban is practising Hindu law now? You never failed to surprise me. According to the Islamic law, even if you steal half a dinar worth of goods or money, the hand will be amputated. This is not Hindu tribal law, there are hadiths supported by Quranic verses that narrate about this. However, later Islamic scholars put certain limitations and restrictions on the limit due to impracticality and abdurdity of such cruel injunctions. The Ottoman generally discontinue this hand mutilation law.



A typical Muslim way of argumentation. First, critisize the previous culture and traditions as pagan or Jahiliyya, then claim that Islam is the best way. That is why Islam has swept away all the beautiful cultures of ancient Persian such as child adoption. Are you saying that the highwaymen that called themselves as "Assasin" of "Hashhashin" that existed in 9th century in the fortress of Alamut under the leadership of Hassan Sabbah were following tribal law instead of Islam? Just because the lenient version of Islam practiced in Malaysia is tolerant, that does not mean the non existent of harsh and barbaric version of it in other part of the world. By the way, Hassan Sabbah belonged to the Ismaili Shia that most Sunni branded as heretic or apostate. You cant even reach consensus in your religion, how to guide others?



Of course you are a good human. Most human abhor massacre and killing. This is natural innate behaviour of every human. As for Islam, it is sufficient for you to read the Siraa Ibn Ishak, At- Tabari and Hadith of Bukhari, Muslim plus the rest of Kutub Sittah to generate the actual picture of Islam.

“I said (would you attack) my prisoners? But... The people formed a ring around us as I was protecting him. Then a man drew his sword and cut off his son’s foot so that he fell down and Umayya [the boy’s father] let out a cry such as I have never heard… They hewed them to pieces with their swords until they were dead.” (Ibn Ishaq 449)

I can provide more examples about killing of prisoner of wars in Islam. Dont you know that the original intention was to kill the all the captives in the Badr battle? Then the ransom idea came to the rescue though many Muslims at that time in favour of the killing, check out this Quranic verse: “It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land.” (8:67)

Surprise?



What do you mean? What's satisfying others have to do with the true nature of Islam? You can still be a good and moral human without religion come to the play. Have you heard of the saying: " For a good people to commit atrocities, it takes religion."


I will continue later.

I have no doubt about your peaceful and tolerant nature. However, there is no pluralism or open mindedness in Islam. You acquired these habits as a result of being exposed to the freethinking nature of modern Western society. There is no denial but this concept is very alien to Islam. There is no freedom of thought or freedom of expression in Islam, it comes to subjugate and impose its own so called superior way of life and thinking to the masses. Islam regards all other non believers or Kaafir as bound to hell due to their "ignorance" of the God and last prophet. Islam looked down upon idol worshipping and label the worshipper as stupid. One quick question, do you eat animal slaughter by the idol worshipper? If the answer is no, then why? How come you differentiate yourself as "us" and "them" attitude? We are all human right? Do you have the option to choose being borned with the right belief? Then why condemn them to hellfire? Quranic verses and the Hadiths are full with condemnation against unbelievers as dweller of hell fire. Please do not say all these are referring merely to the enemy of Islam, you are casting the other portion of humanity to hell fire. This is the real teaching of Islam. Ask any Muslims, what's the consequence and fate of Chinese or Thai Kaafir? the answer is: Hell.

Why take pride being more open minded than an Atheist? Is it because the Atheists are more open minded and the result of our progress are thanks to this freethinking spirit? I dont think that the Wright Brothers will be inventing the aeroplane if they were Muslims, nor do I want to see the whole country of Japan to become Islamised. We will be regressing backward and before anything, Muslims will initiate fighting among themselves. The Sunni Japanese and the Shia Japanese



Buddhism is peaceful by nature and advocate non-violent and non-killing attitude. Though in the context of real world, it may seems to be impractical, but such philosophy deserve admiration. Any Buddhists who eat meat and kill other human knows that they are violating the Buddhist teaching. In contrast to this, the Muslim suicide bomber really believe that by killing innocent people, they will be rewarded with 72 virgins in paradise. That's the difference.



Do you find anywhere in Buddhist scripture that condone the killing of apostate? Any evidence during the lifetime of Buddha which he specifically instructed to end the life of apostate? To a lesser degree, the Bible may have this injunction as substantiated in the period of Dark Ages in Europe with its "Inquisition". Leter, the free thinking people manage to limit the power of the Church and progress commence. This indirectly prevent the people from resorting to such illogical violence of murdering someone just because he or she decided to shift religion. It's fortunate that in the West, many converts to Islam are not assasinated. Nevertheless, Islam resisted free thinking and open-mindedness by clearly advocate the killing of apostate in general. The fate of Christians and apostates in Pakistan and Iran testify to this fact.



Because Muslims are motivated by their religion when doing bad deeds such as honour killing, murdering apostate, suicide bombing, hating other religions, etc. Other people can gradually integrate into the society they live in while Muslims want to impose Shariah on Non Muslims as they claim to be very superior than man-made laws. The history of Islam proved to be contrary, the so called Golden Age Of Islam were brought forward by free thinkers such as Abu Bakar Zakariyya Ar Razi, Ibnu Sina, Ibn Rusyd, Umar Khayyam with the support from freethinker caliphs such as Al-Ma'mum who believed that Quran was created. Later, Al-Ghazali declared that all the freethinkers as apostates. Do you know this or you need sources?

Will continue later.

You mean you dont know? Do I need to inform you that there were two world wars before? The Muslims under Muhammad Ibn Qasim during the time of caliphate of Uthman Bin Affan send army to Sindh, which is situated in present day Pakistan and attack the Hindus there. Who initiate the aggression? Have you heard about the Persian commander by the name of Rustam who defended his nation from the barbaric Muslim invaders? These invaders sent letter of threat to Hurmuzan, the Emporer of Iran, calling him and his subjects to Islam or pay Jizya, failing to comply with either two options will cause the invaders to attack the Persian. The Persian was uninterested with the Arabs in Hijjaz, so did the Roman Byzantium. However, their neglect of these threats cost them their empires and civilizations. The Muslims appropriated all the beautiful things of Persian civilization such as Hammam( public bath), Rose garden and then claim as their own. Afterwards, they translated the Greek, HIndus and Chinese texts of science and philosophy and the result of this emerged those freethinkers of Islam that I mentioned before. When the orthodox witnessed the Muslims swerved from the "right way", they initiate the return to pure pristine Islam and cause the freethinkers in the Islamic world to be extinct. Regression begin afterwards. It's ironic that Muslims nowadays keep rehashing about the golden age of Islam while little do they know the real originator of the so called scientific age. Here's an excerpt from Muhammad Bin Abu Bakar Zakariyya Ar-Razi who was a freethinker apostate:

On what ground do you deem it necessary that God should single out certain individuals [by giving them prophecy], that he should set them up above other people, that he should appoint them to be the people's guides, and make people dependent upon them?[18]

If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.[18]

You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. ... By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it"?! [18]

Sources: Jennifer Michael Hecht, "Doubt: A History: The Great Doubters and Their Legacy of Innovation from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily d!ckinson", pg. 227-230

Cant you see how these great scientists and thinkers do not believe in Islam or its prophet?



Most Sunnis from the Salafi or Wahhabi branch declared Shia as Kaafir. Most Shias believed that the Sunnis are Nasibi, also Kaafir. But their Taqiyya or dissimulation prevented them from declared it openly.



This is the evidence of Tu Quoque logical fallacy. Protestants and Catholics had bloody history on their own, but how can this prove Islam to be a peaceful and tolerant religion? The Pope in the middle ages were a very controversial figure that assume their chairs through conspiracy and murder, so do the Islamic Caliphs such as Harun Ar Rashid that you boasted of being pious. If you read about the private harems or concubines of the Islamic caliphs, you will shudder at the thought that women's status were not as improved as Muslim apologist claim. By the way, do you know that the female captive of wars can be raped in Islam? Here the "pearl" for you:

Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150)

Refer to Siraa Ibn Ishak page 693, see how Muslims traded female slaves like they are nothing worth after having sex with them. Imagine If the USA who is the victor in Iraq war did the same thing with the Iraqi women, will you get enraged?

I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345

The burial of infant girls were an extreme case that was not prevalent among the Jahiliyya but the Muslims keep resounding and rehashing this phenomenon as if something rampant. By the way, Khadijah Binti Khuwailid was a very successful businesswoman during the Jahiliyya time but she eventually become penniless after marrying Muhammad because Muhammad was not fond of working, he spent his wife's wealth like a parasite sucking blood. He practiced monogamy during Khadijah's lifetime because Khadijah had authority over him. Umm Kirfa was another successful Jahiliyya woman who assume leadership of her tribe before she was brutally murdered by Muslims. Refer to Siraa Ibn Ishak again.

Will continue later.

You are attempting to evade the issues altogether by turning a blind eye. There was no CNN but there are Siraa and Hadiths that recorded many brutal acts of Muslim invaders. I personally recommend you to read Siraa Ibn Ishak and Al Waqidi, the complete version without filtering, censoring and whitewashing. Then you will know the bitter truth.



India is a big nation with high population. However, the whole area from Afghanistan to India was part of Indian Hindu civilization. When Timurlane, the famous conqueror ransacked India, do you know how many people were murdered? Do you know of Pakistani who has Sikh grandfather but were forced to convert due to environmental pressure? I personally know one of them and no CNN to record, aint it? Do you know how the Taliban treated the Hindus in Swat valley? They have to wear yellow badges and persecuted severely. You know why? Because they were filthy unbelievers according to Islam and hence, Najs, untidy, fit for hell fire. THis is the real idealogy of Islam. Here you goes:

Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (to fear) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. (3:28)

O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin (unbeleivers) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year (9:28)

Unbelievers are impure? Dirty?



The Muslims managed to destroy many ancient temples before erecting mosques on them. Do you know how many temples were destroyed during the rules of Moghul in India? Take for examples of Aya Sophia in Turkey, that was originally a church before being converted into mosque. The Hindus claim might not be unjustified either. They were the original inhabitant of India before being dominated and subjugated for 1000 years. As much as you hate the British or Dutch for their colonialistic endeavour, the Greek and Armenian too hated the Ottoman Turkish for their conquering of Eastern Europe. Dont be biased in your approach and legalized everything Muslims did against the Kuffar just because the latter are impure, dirty. Talking about Islamic Imperialism, Your double standard is appalling.



Totally irrelevant analogy. Zorostrians are virtually extinct nowadays except in certain part of India while Buddhism never claim to be a true religion. Buddha said: "Doubt Everything, find your own light." The burden is on those political idealogy that asserted to be a true way of life but when minutely scrutinized and bitter facts are divulged, we know that it is an Arabic Imperialistic weapon that aimed at making the world submit under the rule of an Arab Quraisy. Do you know that the criterion to become a caliphs as layed out in the hadith is being an Arab Quraisy? The famous hadith: "Caliphate should be among the Quraisy".

In other words, non Arab Muslims cant even be a caliph if the real and true teaching of Islam is followed. Who would want to follow at the first place? We will be moving towards 7th century Arabia with its ruthless and barbaric character.

As for your portrayal of Nik Aziz, the Kelantanese Minister, his softness and tolerance does not originate from Islam but by his very own nature. The Malays are generally soft and forgiving people as a result of being Asian and perhaps the credit should go to their ancient Buddhistic and Hinduistic traditions.

I rest my case.

Islam is about fundamentalism and "extreme"....that is total submission to Allah by strictly follow the Quran with the guidance and reference from the hadith.

Miss-interpretation of the Quran and the reference to unauthentic hadith are the cause of major problem today. While the Quran remains pure and authentic, hundred of thousands of fake hadiths were fabricate by the enemy of Islam were thrown into the pool.

"May Allah guide us all".

Sura - 109 The Disbelievers (Al-Kaaferoon)
Order Of Revelation 18, Verses: 6


[109:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[109:1] Say, "O you disbelievers.

[109:2] "I do not worship what you worship.

[109:3] "Nor do you worship what I worship.

[109:4] "Nor will I ever worship what you worship.

[109:5] "Nor will you ever worship what I worship.

[109:6] "To you is your religion, and to me is my religion."

This Meccan verse had been abrogated by the later Medinan verses that command war against disbelievers. Heard of the science of An- Nasikh- wal Mansukh? Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal wrote one book discussed about this science.

Here is the abrogating verses:

Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you. (9:123)
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off. (8:12)
Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him; in the next world he shall be among the losers." (3:85)

Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior (9:29)

When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives. (47:4)

I rest my case.

Murder????

What is the Arabic term for "murder"?

How come my translation reads.....

[9:123] O you who believe, you shall fight (combat) the disbelievers who attack you - let them find you stern - and know that GOD is with the righteous.

......sure I'll fight and combat those who attack me. ...and those who dump slanders blindly.

That is the problem when you try to re-write the Quran with your desire...

The translations I found from Muslim sites is"

[47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

so why I wanna listen the slander of muslim ?

stop telling the past, now everybody see muslim using bomb to attack those who are non-muslim, they use to say that non Islam believer are kafir and wanna help Allah to destroy evil

"Slander" of Muslims?

What are you referring to? I thought the topic and the subject being discuss here is "Islam in Malaysia"..... and not about idols worshiping Hindus

May be you meant "Claims" kut?

One of the meaning of the term "Muslim" mean 'one who submitted to Truth".......and naturally you should listen to such a person.

[quote name='kenmirzz' date='Aug 17 2009, 03:07 AM' post='4316533']

Dear Kenmirzz

I think you are a very intelligent handsome man .
I presumed you are now more than 20years of age and normally the most you can live is another 100 years or a bit more . We are all going to die and face the afterlife. If there is no afterlife then we all are safe , we all are going to rot away and be part of the nature`s cycle. Should there be truth in what the Quran says then you are to answer to all your accusations against Allah, his Prophet, the Quran. You may be an ex-Muslim or a non believer or a believer in other religions but You are a very knowledgeable person. Please contemplate on your believes , thoughts and actions vis a vis Islam.
If you happen to live in the west, I suggest you relay your hatred of Islam to the following guys, western intellectual Muslims .
1.Hamza Yusuf
Zaytuna Institute
Address: 2070 Allston Way, Suite 300; Berkeley, CA 94704
Phone: 510-548-1979
Fax: 510-549-1980
Email
info@zaytuna.org - General information
finance@zaytuna.org - Accounting division for tax receipts unitedkingdom@zaytuna.org - UK inquiries
&
2. Dr Abdul Hakeem Murad
Abu Bakr Siddiq Mosque
Mawson Road (off Mill Road)
Cambridge CB1 2DZ
Telephone: 01223 35013
Email: contact@CambridgeMuslimsOnline.info
sisters@CambridgeMuslimsOnline.info
WebMaster@CambridgeMuslimsOnline.info
CMO, PO Box 423, Cambridge CB5 8ZT, UK.

Thank you Mr tengkukuning, I appreciate your sincerity. I assume that as a Malay, you are a very honourable and tolerant race that cherish warrior spirit among yourselves. The Malays prior to Islam has built quite a dazzling civilizations. My humblest apology if whatever I wrote have touched your heart. Even your criticism of me is very lenient and soft, that's part of your culture that I admire. And one more thing, you people have much more superior culture than the violent Arabs.

I may disagree with many of you, but as a human, we are still one family ( If you consider so). As for your advice, I will take the matter seriously. I am a truth seeker, who believe in truth. I am not against God, but I am against those who claim to be messenger of God and then live unsaintly life deceiving credulous masses.

Yes, I know about those two converts. They belonged to the Imam Syafie school of thoughts. Many Muslim converts such as Sheikh Yusuf Estes and Sheikh Bilal Philips disagreed with them as the latter are Wahhabi/Salafi. You see Mr Tengkukuning,people can convert to any sect in Islam, even the Shia Islam gained many converts. Just googled their site and under the Revert sections, many stories about converts either from other religion, or from Sunnism to Shiasim. All these are not essential matter to me. People have their resons to convert.

Even Yusuf Islam aka Cat Stevens who maintained strict Islamic practice of non-singing in public because Islam clearly prohibited music, has now soften his stance, start singing again, even dueting with Coldplay group. Those two Western Converts are just not a prove for anything sir. They are fortunate that Christianity does not impose the death to apostate injunction against them or else, they will be hunted down. In contrast with this, Islam clearly sanctioned that those who convert to other religion should be executed. There's always double standard in Islam. Muslims migrated to the West and demanded equal rights with the natives, on the contrary, Non Muslim in Saudi Arabia was not even allowed to read their Bible. Why practice such obvious hypocrisy?

Humanity is but one family.

[quote name='kenmirzz' date='Aug 25 2009, 02:30 AM' post='4321647']
[quote name='kenmirzz' date='Aug 25 2009, 03:30 AM' post='4321647']


My Dear Brother in Humanity,

I grow up, educated and live in the West. My ancestors came from the Royal House of Patani/Yala, in what now known as Southern Thailand. Sometime in the past we were invaded (u can google search and read the history with many versions available ) and many of my close families (ANCESTORS) were slaughtered, some disappeared,some were made into slaves, some were made to convert to Buddhism and some escaped and dispersed throughout the world. Just because this happened to me and my family (ANCESTORS) that does not constitute/drive me to hate Buddhism or the Thais. In fact I have Thai friends who are Buddhists. Its just part of history and events sometime happen beyond our understanding,perception and control.

My elders used to relate to me stories of how our Royal House accepted Islam in the late 700`s AD or early 800`s AD:
We used to believed in Shamaism, just like the Inca`s of South America. One day
the Arab/Persian traders visited our port on their way home from China. The Sultannate Of Patani used to be a great trading nation in those days.
When they stayed in our city they showed us how honest in their dealings and they were praying to their God which we have not got any clue. My ancestors questioned them what religion they follow and why they are so honest in their dealing. My ancestors, the Sultan told the traders that he and his ministers wish to accept and follow this religion of Islam if it bring honesty and honour to us. This was how Islam was accepted in the Royal House of Patani. This is my elder`s and my ancestor`s version.

I know Yusuf Islam personally, and have met and talk to Abdul Hakeem Murad. Have not met Hamza Yusuf but have read
some of his titles( I suggest if you have the energy and time to read his book e.g.
Purification of the Heart
ISBN: 1929694156
Author: Imam al-Mawlud; Hamza Yusuf Hanson (translator)
Publisher: Starlatch Press (June 2004)
Pages: 268 Binding: Paperback ). I did suggested those two as I think you are a highly educated,intelligent and knowledgeable person and come from a respectable family hence you need to talk to someone of your level . I think you will waste your energy and time thinking and pondering intellectually what the uneducated masses believes and practice. I think Saudi Arabia is not the best example. I have in my immediate family in Europe of mixture of whites, Jews etc and seen all sides of the equations i.e religions, west,east believes and practices.

If you happen to be in London, there is a gathering normally every Sunday of people from different walk of life , religions including atheist gathered to talk & discuss about God,religions etc. Normally its being held after Noon prayer in one of the lecture room in the Central London Mosque or The Regents Park Mosque, on Park Road . You can walk from the Baker Street Tube Station towards the Lords Cricket Ground in St. Johns Wood. Ask the receptionist for the direction of the room.


GOOD LUCK IN YOUR SEEKING FOR TRUTH. MAY GOD BE WITH YOU ALWAYS.

The Srivijaya Civilization was founded with basic Buddhist tenets. ....but how sure are we that early Buddhism was not "Islam".

Islam came with Adam, Noah, Abraham AS .....and 144,000 prophets.

Islam came from God not Arabs.

My Dear Brother in Humanity,

I grow up, educated and live in the West. My ancestors came from the Royal House of Patani/Yala, in what now known as Southern Thailand. Sometime in the past we were invaded (u can google search and read the history with many versions available ) and many of my close families (ANCESTORS) were slaughtered, some disappeared,some were made into slaves, some were made to convert to Buddhism and some escaped and dispersed throughout the world. Just because this happened to me and my family (ANCESTORS) that does not constitute/drive me to hate Buddhism or the Thais. In fact I have Thai friends who are Buddhists. Its just part of history and events sometime happen beyond our understanding,perception and control.


[/quote]

Slightly twisted but not too difficult actually.

British backed Alaungpaya to destroy Mons establishment and later to unite Burma for the British. After settling his scores in Burma, Alaugpaya then united with the sleeping Sukhothai kingdom to attack, destroy and burned down Siamese Ayuthiyya. But after just 6 months burnning down Ayuthiyya, the British back general Taksin counter-charge to destroy back the Burmese monster it help created...and colonized Burma to themselves.

Neither the original blood of Ayuthiyya nor Sukhothai descend the throne of the current Thailand. The current Chakya Dynasty that rule today Thailand is British proxy Vietnamese. All violence and wars on Muslims Mons, Siam and Malays at the hand of the Buddhist Thais were provoked by the Imperial British .

Hmmm. Of course not. Buddhism and Islam are far apart. The mentality of "every religion was right in the beginning, later, people tend to corrupt and interpolate the scriptures" can be applied to Islam as well. Look at this:

Sahih al-Bukhari 8:817:
“….'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said:….. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.
I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed…”

The verse are not there in the Quran now, could it be that the Quran has been tampered?

Sunan Ibn Majah [Arabic], Book of Suckling, # 2020]:"When the verse of stoning and verse of suckling descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad (S) a goat ate the piece of paper whilst we were mourning."

The statement from Aisha declared that a goat has eaten the piece of paper and cause the loss of many verses.

I can provide with many more documented examples. These two are suffice for now. How ironic to claim the Jews and Christians and even the pagan of tampering with their own scriptures while it's so obvious that Quran that we have nowadays is not protected as it claimed to be. The Mu'tazila even propagated the Quran to be created, not eternal.



Who claim that? Quran and Sunnah? The act of circumbulation of Ka'bah and the kissing of the black stone of Hajarul Aswad had pagan origin. Even the performance of pebbles throwing of Jumrah is not spiritual either. Before you claimed this tradition to be descended from Abraham, let me remind that the pagan Arab used to perform all these actions, but of course naked. Later, the practice was improved by the "Prophet" though still retaining the paganistic influence. The way Muslims touch the Ka'bah cube and seek blessing is quite similar with idol worshipper.

Of course Islam is from the Arabs, thus, there is blend of Arabic culture in it. Take for example wearing the long robe or Jubba, keeping beard and wearing the turban. All these are part of Arabic culture and clothing that becomes "sacred" and commendable to emulate. Even shaving beard is considered as heresy according to the most orthodox position of Islamic scholars of Ahlu Sunnah waljamaah. Heard of Indian Islamic scholars such as Sayyid Abdulah Dahlawi, Shah Waliullah Dahlawi, Sheikh Ahmad Rida Khan Barelwi, and the most accepted fatwa of Hanafi Ulama regarded shaving beard is sinful. Even if the majority of Malaysian who subscribe to the Syafie school of thought maybe different, most religious verdict discourage shaving beard. Just because there is different phenomenon in Malaysia does not mean that this illogical fatwa is non existent.

The 5 daily prayers of Namaaz or Salaat also have to be strictly in Arabic, this is another proof of arabization process. If you can give examples of English language being international mode of communication, I can say that the Japanese, French, Korean and many other nations do not feel the importance of English language in their daily life. By the way, by learning English, we are not praying in English but our mother tongue. Before you give this false analogy, I disprove it first. Some Islamic scholars opined that it is compulsory to learn Arabic, however, most Muslims ignore this kind of fatwa. Dont get me wrong, it is always beneficial to learn extra language as a human. It's the arabization of human that I dislike. Each race, tribe and nations have their own individual culture, tradition and way of life that are unique and demand admiration. Some people are being obsessed of the Caucassion white people and attempt to imitate them in clothing and appearance, we all aware that this is not a good behaviour and criticize such indulgence. On the contrary, when a Persian or Turk embrace Islam, they want to become more Arabs than the Arabs themselves taking pride in dressing arabic garb and robe. The Persian has lost much of their culture due to the arabization process. Though a few attempts were made to revive their long lost culture, such effort proved in vain. They forgot about their warriors such as Rustam and their kings, Yazdegard.

Mr Radzi, have you heard of the plight of Yazdegard III when defeated by the Arab invaders? He appealed to them not to kill and enslaved his people, in which they did in 651 A.D. They had no choice but to embrace Islam under heavy threat from Arabic invaders. Either convert, pay tithe jizya, or sword. Do you think I invented this? No my friend. Just read the letters of threatening sent by the "Prophet" to all sovereigns of surrounding area. As I said again and again, the Persian never intended to mess with the Arabs because they have their own high civilization to be proud of. Why under the pretext of spreading the religion, ruthless mean were applied? Dont they have right to live even if they were non muslim?


You said there were tolerance in Islamic Spain? Check out this book: A Golden Age - Life for non-Muslims in Islamic Spain . You may not want to believe the contents due to your distrust of Non-Muslim and orientalism. But I listed the regulations in Islamic Spain:

Almanzor looted churches and imposed strict restrictions.
The position of non-Muslims in Spain deteriorated substantially from the middle of the 11th century as the rulers became more strict and Islam came under greater pressure from outside.
Christians were not allowed taller houses than Muslims, could not employ Muslim servants, and had to give way to Muslims on the street.
Christians could not display any sign of their faith outside, not even carrying a Bible. There were persecutions and executions.
One notorious event was a pogrom in Granada in 1066, and this was followed by further violence and discrimination as the Islamic empire itself came under pressure.
restrictions on clothing and the need to wear a special badge
restrictions on building synagogues and churches
not allowed to carry weapons
could not receive an inheritance from a Muslim
could not bequeath anything to a Muslim
could not own a Muslim slave
a dhimmi man could not marry a Muslim woman (but the reverse was acceptable)
a dhimmi could not give evidence in an Islamic court
dhimmis would get lower compensation than Muslims for the same injury

Mr Radzi, tell me who raided the Buddhist Nalanda University in Bihar, India?

Humanity is but one family.

kenmirzz

View Member Profile Aug 13 2009, 02:37 AM Post #18


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Group: Members
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I am a Moghul and my wife is a Khalkha Mongol. You Mongolian are really a nice people and my admiration at your hospitality is tremendous.

Though the Moghul have Mongolian, Persian, Turkish and Indian blood within them, the name Mughal itself imply they have Mongol ancestry.

as for the Turk and Mongol, they are obviously cousin. Look at the Kazakh, Kyrghiz and Mongol, they can pass as each other because they look similar, their way of life and culture is also remarkably similar. The Kryghiz also love in Ger( not so different from Mongol), and drink horse milk. Only religion that set them apart.

Humanity is but one family. (IMG:http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile.gif)

So is Christianity! In Islam, we believe Jesus Christ (Isa Al-Masih AS) brought Islam...but someone later changed to Christianity. Emperor Constantine ensured that the Pagan Roman Catholic dominate over the earlier Christianity.

....Every things changes....even the books and the contents.

That was why they hide scrolls etc.

Religion vs. the Power center of the time; The Emperor! and Islam brought by Jesus became Cristianity

Yes...we have changed too in Islam. That is why Quran keep mentioning to the sahabi and the Salafi that they were the best of Ummah.

Quran[3:110]: 'You are the best community ever raised among the people: you advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and you believe in GOD. If the followers of the scripture believed, it would be better for them. Some of them do believe, but the majority of them are wicked'

...and hadith comfirm the deterioration of the quality: http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/display.a...eng&ID=1471
'Abdullah bin Mas'ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The best of my Ummah will be those of my century, then those who will come after them, then those who are next to them. Then people will come, whose witness will precede the oath and the oath will precede the witness.

At end of time: The ummah will be very weak...and with "Al-Wahn" decease as describe in the famous "buih" hadith.

Currently we have secular Islam in Malaysia....where besides Allah, we also adore the Nation and the salute flag. We pay tribute to statue too as adoration to the Nation as paying tribute to the "righteous" "perjuang tanah air" "perajurit" fighters.

This is analogy to what happened to the first idol worshiper from Noah AS time: http://www.realislam.com/noah.htm

We surely deviated when the Religion is versus the secular Power of today. Gone were the tussle between Islam vs. Hadhari. Now we will see how Islam of Satu Malaysia presenting itself?

But as long as the Quran remain unchanged...and there are few good scholars risking their life combating against "power backed" fake scholars, they are indeed "pewaris nabi-nabi".... and Allah will not send another prophet .....and Muhammad AS is indeed the seal of prophets.

Stoning or "Rajam" was the ruling for adultery in the Jewish scriptures, but in Islam flogging is the Koranic ruling.

Quran surah an-Nur: 24:2 The adulteress and the adulterer, flog each of them (with) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you from obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.

.....Thsu thus the "goat" hadiths were fabricate.

We believe in the Quran foremost!....even Shahih Bukhari is not Sahih if its contradict with the Quran.

You cannot tampered the Quran, but there were hundred and thousand of fake hadith fabricated by enemy of Islam to confused us Muslim, but as long as we hold on the Quran and the Nur of Allah.....we will be fine.

...I pray for us all...

ihdinâ s-sirât al-mustaqîm

ihdi-nâ = guide us, show us, lead us
ihdi: Root h-d-y: guide, show, direct, be made aware, to be led back, to be rightly led with kindness until one reaches the goal. This is also the root of al-Hâdî, the Guide, the Leader.
nâ: pronoun, referring to we, or us.

s-sirât = course, path, way
specifically, a path which is even, wide and can be easily followed to the goal.

al-mustaqîm = straight, shortest, smooth, exact, right
Root q-m: get up. stand up, stand erect: make straight, correct, reform, lift up, resurrect, appoint, arouse. This is also the root of al-Qayyûm, the Self-existing, the One who stands alone.

Some people study Islam for self betterment , but some study to slander. Some Roman Catholic Prients are scholars with PhD in Islamic studies for the very purpose.... Some Alhamdulillah revert to Islam and very active propagating truth.

[quote name='kenmirzz' date='Aug 25 2009, 02:30 AM' post='4321647']



........... I am not against God, but I am against those who claim to be messenger of God and then live unsaintly life deceiving credulous masses.

............Yes, I know about those two converts. They belonged to the Imam Syafie school of thoughts. Many Muslim converts such as Sheikh Yusuf Estes and Sheikh Bilal Philips disagreed with them as the latter are Wahhabi/Salafi. You see Mr Tengkukuning,people can convert to any sect in Islam, even the Shia Islam gained many converts. Just googled their site and under the Revert sections, many stories about converts either from other religion, or from Sunnism to Shiasim. All these are not essential matter to me. People have their resons to convert.

.......... Those two Western Converts are just not a prove for anything sir. ...........................

My dear brother in humanity

If you believe in God, then be honest to yourself and if you are really a traveller (seeking the truth) you must ask God to guide you to the truth. You must" open and clear your heart then you get Nirvana", you cannot have so much hatred in your heart. When you are interested to find out about Islam you cannot just do it by reading from books e.g hadiths,going on webs and Quran without a teacher of a respected muslim scholar, I don`t think you can go far.
Even a prodigy need to be taught. This business of understanding Quranic ayats need a lot of study including the Arabic Language. You cannot just pick and choose what you like and fancy. Remember my friend, Hadiths are not word from God, hence need careful scrutiny but not by Tom, d!ck and Harry. There were events related to each ayat and only to be explain in details by scholars who spend many years studying the religious science of the Quran. There are also deep meaning in the ayats of the Quran .No way you can understand over a glass/bottle of wine or vokha.

Just ponder, my dear friend, there must be some thruth if billions of mankind including many respected intellectuals and scholars of different background ,colours, race and creed worldwide who have taken and follow this religion of Islam. They can`t all be duped and deceived,can they?

With Islam I suggest you seek knowledge with respected scholars e.g if you are in India, there are so many respected Scholars at Aligarh University. If you happen to be
in Israel, go the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem and see Sheik Muhammad Al-Jamal Ar Rafai. If you happen to be in Malaysia, go to see The Chief Minister of Kelantan at his Mosque.You can go and get the info from his office in Kota Bharu Kelantan.In Canada, go and see

Dr. Jamal Badawi was born in Egypt where he completed his undergraduate education. He completed his Ph.D. from the Indiana University and subsequently joined the faculty of Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Canada.

If you are in Iran do go to Qom( see the English speaking Scholars) and if you are in Indonesia do go to Surabaya where the Arab (Shia & Sunni) community lives-see their Alims ....


Good Luck with your searching. May God guide you to the thruth.

To Mr Radzi and Mr Tengkukuning, thanks for your advice and suggestion. My deepest respect and admiration to both of you. Your patience and diligence in convincing me cause my heart to be humble towards you. You are really different from the abusive people that merely channel their anger without thinking.

May God/Burkan/Tengriin/Allah bless both of you with good life, happy family and healthy.

Humanity is but one family.

May Allah bless you too.

It is very easy to be vulgar and abusive behind PC screens.... but that is very cowardly.

I try to answer you as best and patience as I could since there will be many other passive readers reading what I wrote ....thus I will be answerable to Allah.

Islam is about Truth and Patience: "....bi al-haqqi wa tawâsaw bi as-sabr"

bismillâh ir-rahmân ir-rahîm

bismillâh = for the glory of Allâh, in the name of Allâh, by means of the Light of Allâh
Root: There are three parts to this beautiful phrase: (see also the bismillah web page)
1) bi : by, for, by means of, with the aid of, through (pointing towards the idea of what happens next)
2) ism : name, reputation, glory (root indicates light, vibration, essence)
3) Allâh

ir-rahmân = the beneficent, the merciful, the compassionate, the One who continually showers all of creation with blessings, nourishment and prosperity
Root r-h-m: womb, kinship, mercy, compassion, tenderness requiring the exercise of beneficence.

ir-rahîm = the compassionate, the merciful, the One who gives even more to those who live in loving harmony and righteousness
Root r-h-m: womb, kinship, mercy, compassion, tenderness requiring the exercise of beneficence.



wa al-'asri

wa = and, and also, while, whilst, but, together, with

al-'asr = time passing, time that cannot be recaptured, the flight of time, succession of the ages, the days of the Prophet, late in the day, afternoon



inna al-insâna la fî khusrin

inna = (introductory particle) behold, verily, truly, surely

al-insân = one having attachments, man, mankind, human being
Root a-n-s: to be sociable, familiar, polite, friendly, keep company, be on intimate terms

la = (intensifying particle) truly, verily

fî = (prep) in, at, on, near, by, within, concerning, regarding, according to

khusr = loss, damage, deception, straying from the right path, punishment for a sin
Root kh-s-r: to wander from the right path, to be deceived, to miss the right path, to err, to become lost, to suffer loss, lose, perish, suffer damage



illâ al-ladhîna âmanû wa 'amilû as-sâlihâti wa tawâsaw bi al-haqqi wa tawâsaw bi as-sabr

illâ = but, except, if not

al-ladhîna = those who, whoever

âmanû = they believe, they have trust in, they have confidence in
Root a-m-n: to trust, be secure, be in safety, have confidence in, believe in

wa = and, and also, while, whilst, but, together, with

'amilû = workers, doers
Root 'a-m-l: to make, work, operate, construct, practice

as-sâlihât = righteous deeds, good works
Root s-l-h: to be righteous, good, sound, upright

wa = and, and also, while, whilst, but, together, with

tawâsaw = they enjoin each other, urge one another, admonish each other
Root w-s-y: to enjoin, recommend, urge, advise, admonish, prescribe, direct, encourage

bi = by, for, by means of, with the aid of, through; also gives causative meaning to a verb

al-haqq = the truth, that which is real, proper and authentic
Root h-q-q: to be right, true, genuine, real, proper, suitable, authentic (see also al-Haqq)

wa = and, and also, while, whilst, but, together, with

tawâsaw = they enjoin each other, urge one another, admonish each other
Root w-s-y: to enjoin, recommend, urge, advise, admonish, prescribe, direct, encourage

bi = by, for, by means of, with the aid of, through; also gives causative meaning to a verb

as-sabr = patience, steadfastness, bearing calmly, perseverance
Root s-b-r: to be patient, enduring, steadfast, contented

There is no sect in Islam. Prophet Muhammad SAW brought only Islam with no sect... and any sects is indeed an innovation (Bida'ah). There is only relative opinions and understandings, but clearly no sect. There is also no Mazhab...but just the one Mazhab of Islam. You can cross study and take opinions and suggestions from all the great Imams of the past, but not to draw border amongst ourselves. Non Muslims may label us into sects as it fit their objective to divide Muslims, but we Muslims must not repeat and assume their words.

There may be "Syiah" inclined hadiths or "Sunni" inclined hadiths.....BUT there is only ONE version of the Quran. When Caliph Imam Mahadi come, he will abolish both sects and unite Muslim under one Islam. He will also brake the secular border that was drawn by the Capitalist Illuminati which are dividing Muslim into various secular nations.

Here is a question for non-Muslim and some not so good Muslim.
What do Judaism, Protestant, Catholic and Muslim have in common?
.
.
.
.
.
They ALL believe in the same, and only, God.
Among Muslim, Sunni and Shi'a believe in the same, and only, God.
This may shock some westerners since it's not well known to them.

Anyway, knowing this, one might ask, why the children of ONE GOD hates each others so much?

It's people, not religion.
Those people who read Bible or Qur'an as they please, not the way the original author, the one and only God, intended.

Those 4 religions probably make up 60-70% of all religious people in the world, and it's very sad and unfortunate that they don't get along.

All the issues claimed to be religious are, in fact, a misuse of their beliefs in the name of God to justify the terrible acts.

If you're one of them, the hell is waiting for you.