Ps 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The "FOOL" hath said in his/her heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Meanings of a FOOL

AV-fool 9, foolish 5, vile person 2, foolish man 1, foolish women 1; 18

1) foolish, senseless, fool

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…The atheist, that makes him inseparable from what is called nature, and binds him to its laws by an insurmountable necessity; that deprives him of will, and wisdom, and power, as a distinct and independent Being…

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Theological Dictionary quote below:

…ATHEIST, in the strict and proper sense of the word, is one who does not believe in the existence of a God, or who owns no being superior to nature. It is compounded of the two terms, a negative, God, signifying without God. Atheists have been also known by the name infidels ; but the word infidel is now commonly used to distinguish a more numerous party, and is become almost synonymous with Deist.

He who disbelieves the existence of a God, as an infinite, intelligent-, and a moral agent, is a direct or speculative Atheist ;

he who confesses a Deity and providence in words, but denies them in his life and actions, is a practical Atheist.

That Atheism existed in some sense before the flood….as it is observed by Dean Sherlock, "The universal deluge, and the confusion of languages, had so abundantly convinced mankind of a divine power and providence, that there was no such creature as an Atheist, till their ridiculous idolatries had tempted some men of wit and thought, rather to own no God than such an the Heathens worshipped."

…Atheistical principles were long nourished and cherished in Greece, and especially among the atomical, peripatetic, and skeptical philosophers ; and hence some have ascribed the origin of Atheism to the philosophy of Greece…



These principles, with the other improvements of Greece, were transferred to Rome ; and, excepting in Italy, we hear little of Atheism, for many ages after the Christian œra. " For some ages before the Reformation," says Archbishop Tillotson, " Atheism was confined to Italy, and had its chief residence at Rome.



But, in this last age, Atheism has travelled over the Alps and infected France, and now of late it hath crossed the seas, and invaded our nation, and hath prevailed to amazement.

However, to Tillotson, and other able writers, we owe its suppression in this country ; for they pressed it down with a weight of sound argument, from which it has never been able to raise itself. For although in our time, in France and Germany a subtle Atheism was revived, and spread its unhallowed and destructive influence for many years throughout the Continent, it made but little progress in this better-instructed nation.

Atheism, in its primary sense, comprehends, or at least goes beyond, every heresy in the world ; for it professes to acknowledge no religion, true or false.

The two leading hypotheses which have prevailed, among Atheists, respecting this world and its origin, are, that of Ocellus Lucanus, adopted and improved by Aristotle, that it was eternal and that of Epicurus, that it was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms.

That the soul is material and mortal, Christianity an imposture, the Scripture a forgery, the worship of God superstition, hell a fable, and heaven a dream, our life without providence, and our death without hope, like that of asses and dogs, are part of the glorious gospel of our modern Atheists."

The being of a God may be proved from the marks of design, and from the order and beauty visible in the world ; from universal consent ; from the relation of cause and effect; from internal consciousness ; and from the necessity of a final as well as an efficient cause.

Of all the false doctrines and foolish opinions that ever infested the mind of man, nothing can possibly equal that of Atheism, which is such a monstrous contradiction of all evidence, to all the powers of understanding, and the dictates of common sense, that it may be well questioned whether any man can really fall into it by a deliberate use of his judgment.

All nature so clearly points out, and so loudly proclaims, a Creator of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, that whoever hears not its voice, and sees not its proofs, may well be thought wilfully deaf, and obstinately blind.

If it be evident, self-evident, to every man of thought, that there can be no effect without a cause, what shall we say of that manifold combination of effects, that series of operation?, that system of wonders, which fill the universe, which present themselves to all our perceptions, and strike our minds and our senses on every side ?

Every faculty, every object of every faculty, demonstrates a Deity.

The meanest insert we can see, the minutest and most contemptible weed we can tread upon, is really sufficient to confound Atheism, and baffle all its pretensions.

How much more that astonishing variety and multiplicity of God's works with which we are continually surrounded !

Let any man survey the face of the earth, or lift up his eyes to the firmament; let him consider the nature and instincts of brute animals, and afterward look into the operations of his own mind, and will he presume to say or suppose that all the objects he meets with are nothing more than the result of unaccountable accidents and blind chance ?

Can lie possibly conceive that such wonderful order should spring out of confusion ? or that such perfect beauty should lie ever formed by the fortuitous operations of unconscious, unactive particles of matter ?

As well, and more easily, might he suppose that an earthquake might happen to build towns and cities ; or the materials carried down by a flood fit themselves up without hands into a regular fleet.

For what are towns, cities, or fleets, in comparison of the vast and amazing fabric of the universe !

In short, Atheism offers such violence to all our faculties, that it seems scarce credible it should ever really find any place in the human understanding.

Atheism is unreasonable, because it gives no tolerable account of the existence of the world.

This is one of the greatest difficulties with which the Atheist has to contend.

For he must suppose either that the world is eternal, or that it was formed by chance and a fortuitous concourse of the parts of matter.

That the world had a beginning, is evident from universal tradition, and the most ancient history that exists ; from there being no memorials of any actions performed previously to the time assigned in that history as the birth of the creation ; from the origin of learning and arts, and the liability of the parts of matter to decay.

That the world was not produced by chance, is also evident.

Nothing can be more unreasonable than to ascribe to chance an effect which appears with all the characters of a wise design and contrivance.

Will chance fit means to ends, over in ten thousand instances, and not fail in a single one ?

How often might a man, after shaking a set of letters in a bag, throw them on the ground, before they would become an exact poem, or form a good discourse in prose ?

In short, the arguments in proof of Deity are sо numerous, and at the same time so obvious to a thinking mind, that to waste time in disputing with an Atheist, is approaching too much toward that irrationality, which may be considered as one of the most striking characteristics of the sect.

The more noted Atheist, since the Reformation, are Machiavel, Spinoza, Hobbes, Blount, and Vanini.

To these may be added Voltaire the coryphaeus of the sect, and the great nursing father of that swarm of them which has appeared in those last days.

Dr. Samuel Clarke, in his " Demonstration of the Being of a God," says, that Atheism arises either from stupid ignorance, or from corruption of principles and manners, or from the reasonings of false philosophy ; and he adds, that the latter, who are the only Atheistical persons capable of being reasoned with at all, must of necessity own that, supposing it cannot be proved to be true, yet it is a thing very desirable, and which any wise man would wish to be true, for the great benefit and happiness of man, that there was a God, an intelligent and wise, a just and good Being, to govern the world.

Whatever hypothesis these men can possibly frame, whatever argument they can invent, by which they would exclude God and providence out of the world ; that very argument or hypothesis, will of necessity lead them to this concession.

If they argue, that our notion of God arises not from nature and reason, but from the art and contrivance of politicians ; that argument itself forces them to confess, that it is manifestly for the interest of human society, that it should be believed there is a God, if they suppose that the world was made by chance, and is every moment subject to be destroyed by chance again ; no man can be so absurd as to contend, that it is as comfortable and desirable to live in such an uncertain stale of things, and so continually liable to ruin, without any hope of renovation, as in a world that is under the preservation and conduct of a powerful, wise, and good God.

If they argue against the being of God, from the faults and defects which they imagine they can find in the frame and constitution of the visible and material world ; this supposition obliges them to acknowledge that it would have been better the world had been made by an intelligent and wise Being, who might have prevented all faults and imperfections.

If they argue against providence, from the faultiness and inequality which they think they discover in the management of the moral world ; this is a plain confession, that it is a thing more fit and desirable in itself, that the world should be governed by a just and good Being, than by mere chance or unintelligent necessity.

Lastly, if they suppose the world to be eternally and necessarily self-existent, and consequently that every thing in it is established by a blind and eternal fatality; no rational man can at the same time deny, but that liberty and choice, or a free power of acting, is a more eligible state, than to be determined thus in all our actions, as a stone is to move downward, by an absolute and inevitable fate.

In a word, which way so ever they turn themselves, and whatever hypothesis they make, concerning the original and frame of things, nothing in so certain and undeniable, as that man, considered without the protection and conduct of a superior Being, is in a far worse case than upon supposition of the being and government of God, and of men's being under his peculiar conduct, protection, and favor.



[size="4"]Atheist, The Fool L.A.M. Norman Oetker Missionary "The Light Amidst the Mong" Hmong Thailand, Reynosa Mexico, English Class, St. Charles Missouri US.

Preachers are what turn your average, mild mannered atheist into anti-theist.

T.H. Horne Vol. 1

God's great plan of Salvation faces the..

….the four great moral evils: atheism, skepticism, immorality, and vice….

If you must prop up your faith with quotes of others and of the bible
then you lessen its value and your faith is diminished.

God doesn't need you to repeat words from thinkers.
The world needs the action and words that come straight from deep inside your faith
Then the truth comes out and the words will truly touch the heart
Look to the teaching of Jesus and see ....

Sorry, but if you must quote from others then you might as well be a book of foreign words.
Now, if you lose that crutch, how will you stand?
Will you reach the heart of others or will you have them turn you away????

I remember in one of Norman's post that he confessed that he was an atheist once in his life.

Many atheist scientists especially in the field of genetics became believers in the end.
http://www.signatureinthecell.com/

No, never, see my homepage for further details normanoetker.spaces.live.com

You are quite correct, all need to read the Christian Bible, and practice the teaching of Christ, in their everyday life.

Again you are blinded by your own thoughts to understand.

If you preach or teach then do this from a living heart. Not books.
I used Jesus as an example so you may see the truth ...
Obviously you can not ... you are stuck with dead words.

I have read your post again, and...well...you seem to be... well... in..... This topic is about Atheists.

So, if you have some thoughts on Atheists please chime in.

If you desire to have a another topic opener, please open a new topic heading.

ps. Thanks for your interests in reaching the world for Jesus, continue in your postings, to direct the lost to "Jesus."

I have posted on this forum many times my views, now all one needs to to do is to look in the headings "Would you like to ask a Missionary a question..." I have two topics- with similar headings,- on different subjects.

Again, if you have a general question in regards to the faith, and want to ask? please use the appropriate topic mentioned above.


pss aviator, I'm right here...you need to try and focus your comments and thoughts to me, my name is Norman.

If when you begin to write, and you are disturbed, stop, and try to analyze why? I'm sure you will see that your anger (or what ever you like to term it) isn't because of what is written so much by others, as your own resentments and hostility within. There are techniques that one can use to learn control.

It's in those control moments, that your allowing self growth.

You give the impression that you're trying to persuade others, in your style of writing to them, your Internet audience.

I can handle you, I'm not going anywhere. If you want to communicate good! Kind of face to face.

I have stated before on this very forum, that it is very difficult to really open up, and asked question in regards to one's faith.

The most vocal here are those in all likelihood are the most insecure. There communications skills demonstrate that they really don't have much of a life.

Continual criticism is old and boring.

However, a thoughtful conversation is great! however, it's difficult on this forum, for most are insecure, and would rather just go along with the crowd.

The most vocal topic writers here, again, are controllers, they want to control the group, they say go to the left, and most turn, they don't agree with someone, others will follow suit.

Maybe, there a chance you will listen and move ahead in communicating, or continue in the same old same old. We'll see. Norman

This has nothing to do with anything but Norman advertising and selling his religion. Plain and simple. Why do you think an old white guy is on an Asian forum filled with insecure people and those who have no clue about science? All he does is quote the bible, direct people to his bible link and demonize free thought. I think I have personally confirmed this to be a fact about Norman and his occupation in the asian forums. So it's like feeding a troll after the fact. Only talk back to it if a young naive person attempts to take his bait. Otherwise, just let his petty posts die off---like they were before boredom took over you guys. Just look at his last reply---we all know how sad it is so stop beating him over the head about it--he doesn't get it and doesn't want to--. Just ignore the salesman.



---Norman's other uniform---

I have read your post...thinking possibly you had changed...however, you haven't. Your just one angry person, unable to accept anyone or anything, that is different from what you want all to be.

Your on the ignore list again.

....to avistor


""Maybe, there a chance you will listen and move ahead in communicating, or continue in the same old same old. We'll see. Norman ""
avistor, you have given your answer.


I have stood and talked, before so many different types of people of the world.

Many times I asked them, in a question form, of how they would like for me to talk them?

Would they prefer, I talk in a way of avoiding hard questions? or would they want to hear the adult truth of things?

Needless to say, they all want the adult truth.

You all here haven't asked, yet, I would want you to hear the adult truth.

….

My name is Norman Oetker
And, I'm a Christian Missionary.

I'm 63 years old
I'm the founder of L.A.M. "Light Amidst the Mong/MEO."
Currently serving in Reynosa Mexico.
….

I've made the decision to be involved in the global exchange of religious thoughts.
…

The promotion of Missionary Norman Oetker is necessary, for the skeptics of the world.
I'm a real person, a Christian missionary, and have been for 34 years.

…
Now serving In Mexico, the Mexican police know where I live, and routinely patrol here.

The US. Border Patrol, knows of my Christian volunteer work here.

I've had criminal background checks.

Presently, preparing to volunteer in the prison here, where among others, the zetas and other mexican gangs are imprisoned.

I make know secret to anyone of who I am, and my purposes.
…

I've suffered for Jesus, my Lord. I've been exposed to the horrendous actions of sin, both physically and emotionally.
….

I've decided not to hide- by some alias name- in an obscure chat program.


…

For the most part I've worked with hardcore Asians, have lived in the Himalayan Mountains, in the heart of the Golden Triangle Heroin Production To the World. I lived in the center of the southeast Asian gang area of southeast Fresno Ca.

AND THERE, AS IN THE GOLDEN TRIANGLE, I WAS THE ONLY WHITE GUY.

The same violence, is aptly demonstrated in this chat room, the verbal, sexist, age, racists based attacks, in this chat room, is simply racism disguised.

They difference here in the chat room is, they-for the most part- have allowed themselves to be deceived, by educational achievements, in the masking of their atheist, racist based lifestyle beliefs against other cultures, particularly the White in a authority positions.

……

Likewise,
Working with the hardened criminal, within the Penal institutions, in the states, and Asia.

People are all the same basically, the anger, variance, strife, racist, and sexists thoughts, are those of the typical frustrated person.

…

The western Asian's proclivity to be the domineering male role in life here, is for the most part, a complicated, introverted, unfulfilled lifestyle.

.
Missionary Norman Oetker, I can do nothing, in the changing of one's mentality.


Yet, there is a way to freedom from the guilt, shame, and condemnation, that the Asian, as well as the; White, Black And Red, and all Others in between, try and hide. Trying earnestly, to hide, that which is deep within themselves, some try and submerge it, in the artful skill of education's or Works deceptions.


Yet, this guilt, with it's shame, it's condemnation, bubbles to the surface in their lives, over, and over. It's hid deep within their heart. Their heart, which is exceedingly wicked (says the Bible), this, that they hide, so masterfully, comes through to their minds, then to be verbalize, their inward guilt, shame, condemnation, resentment, anger, pours forth, from this vile, filthy heart of man,

This animosity is further demonstrated, as those words change and become actualized, into physical actions, taken against those who don't hold to the party, the group, or race line. Demonstrated on many levels, to the base in society, their violence, then becomes the breaking of laws, which results in incarceration, and rightly so.

However, it's in all levels of society, especially within the business world, where absolute violence is demonstrated over and over.

Internationality, those severely less fortunate, within their societies, are unable to stand against one's own people. This hardcore violence, and it's furtherance by those practitioners, are revealed, in the subtle, yet uncouth, violence with in business practices, to workman in all forms.

A total disregard, for mankind and his well being, furthermore, affecting the very earth that we live on.

….

Then there are those, that talk about Christ, and His goodness, and forgiveness. Those who aren't going to be intimidated, by the actual force and violence, that's to be perpetrated against them .

Why? for it was in their lives, that there was goodness, mercy, and strength, that one calls upon in the time of need, God! supplies Grace! and Mercy! to those in the time of need, during hunger, torture, imprisonment and death, during natural disasters, the loss of love ones, etc.

God's abundant Mercy! and Love! is their, to give the strength to continue, to move forward in the face of overwhelming odds. To be a concerted voice to the world, a voice crying out! to the lost of the world of God's love for them..

"THEIR CRY COMES FROM A HEART THAT HAS BEEN REGENERATED, HAS BEEN MADE ANEW!"

…..

Yet, the line is clear, that their are many so called gods, to call upon. History is replete with them.



Yet, There Is Only One True God. "The God of The Christian Bible."
……….

Returning…

If one wants to have an adult conversations about God, here in this forum under Religion, find, and that is good!


However, as I've told avistor, ….if your verbal violence is rearing it's ugly head again within your life, in wanting to attack- with your subtle hate and violence- through this chat program…. then go do a workout first, and work off your anger, and just think about your questions, you would like to asked ,of how are why? in regards to the Christian Religion.

In closing…

I have a message from God to all of you that will read this. This is no Joke or Trick. You that know, will know of it's truth.

The message is, "that the Holy Spirit of God, has been directing you to Christ, in your private life. You have been aware of it, it's not a coincidence, that these random things happening in your life, that have been pointing YOU to Christ!

It is the Holy Spirit of God calling to you, and yet, you have been refusing, I, missionary Norman Oetker say to you that He, God is sincere in His calling to you in your life.

'Stop, And Turn, And See! All That The Lords Has For You. God Created YOU For His Destined Purpose. Open Your Eyes!'

The way to God, and Christ hasn't changed in over a thousand years, a repentant heart before God, asking for His forgiveness, and the accepting of Christ into your heart, for the the forgiveness of YOUR SINs, those deeply buried, the wicked things along with those attitudes.

Reader, It's God calling to you! and remember it is God, not you! that does the new work in your life!

He, God, Gives You The Grace And Strength, To Go Forward In His Name."



Norman Oetker, And… I Am A Christian Missionary!

normanoetker.spaces.live.com

haha ok this made me laugh, but lets play. I'm not an atheist nor would i tell you what i believe in. But lets cut the bible quotes and be more philosophical then tell me with your own words how you define "God." In other words "Given the long evolutionary history of the universe and of life on earth, what would you conclude about the intelligence and power and goodness of God the Creator?"


My response to you is that assuming that God exists, and then we can assume that God had some purpose for creating us? correct? Why else would God create us being the omnipotent god he is? And from that purpose it gives us a kind of incentive to fulfill that purpose God has, either by faith or prayer for example. But with the all-knowing/omniscience God, why would he create human beings with the notion of freewill, yet expect us to be more than we are now? Why didn't god create perfect beings (always loyal and always good to god being the all powerful god he is). Through history there has been wars between religion and loss of faith and disbelief in God. We have good and bad morals, why did the all-powerful God give us this choice?

but if you can't respond in a philosophical way, you are definitely nothing but some forum troll and a fool blinded by faith, old man.

"I have read your post...thinking possibly you had changed...however, you haven't. Your just one angry person, unable to accept anyone or anything, that is different from what you want all to be."

I have very often thought the same about you.
So who do you think is right?
Do I need you to answer to know what you would say?

With all that you have suffered and learned, you put it all up to God.
God's will and God's purpose ... and this has given you reason to find peace and go on.
That's okay.

But, what you forgot is the difference between what the bible teaches and what Jesus taught ...
Do you know?

You are very strange in your approach to someone you don’t know, with YOUR mockery and insults.

So, I can only assume that it’s your best, in your communicating ability. Or, as I suspect, you are insecure, and want the approval of others on this site.

Your opening comments and further insults, are typical on this sight, insult upon insult. In the category of Religion.

What a waste.

Writer, if you are sincere about your enquiry? follow these simple steps 1. a sincere apology, to me. 2. rephrase your questions without your answers.

3. If your unable to do 1 and 2, please don’t respond.

Ok excuse me. I didn't know being formal on this forum was an issue here. I have read your previous posts and I can see how you normally respond to people. And honestly its you that lack the level of communication that most people have. If you cannot answer my question just say so. Don't be a baby and cry about a minor indirect insult.

Your excused, don't insult and then you don't have to apologize.
.... tell me with your own words how you define "God." “Love, Mercy, Forgiveness, Protection, (not in the sense as you understand it.) He’s GREAT!

...In other words "Given the long evolutionary history of the universe and of life on earth, what would you conclude about the intelligence and power and goodness of God the Creator?"

A day to Lord is as a 1000 years, or a 1000 years is as a day to the Lord. Look in the Mirror, for His conclusion's to this point.

...My response to you is that assuming that God exists, and then we can assume that God had some purpose for creating us? correct? Yes.

...Why else would God create us being the omnipotent god he is? OK.

...And from that purpose it gives us a kind of incentive to fulfill that purpose God has, either by faith or prayer for example. No, you’re fundamentally in error. Your assumptions are the faults. Man alone is in ignorance of God. Man hasn’t got a clue about the things about God. Man knows nothing that God requires.

But with the all-knowing/omniscience God, why would he create human beings with the notion of freewill, yet expect us to be more than we are now? Free-will in the beginning, is not the same as we now experience free-will.

...Why didn't god create perfect beings (always loyal and always good to god being the all powerful god he is).

God did create 3 perfect free will beings, Adam and Eve and then Christ.

...Through history there has been wars between religion and loss of faith and disbelief in God. I have toched on this topic many times and it bears repeating again. Their are many that killed in the name of religion, however, these weren’t Christians, they were, and even are today, religionists, not Christians.

...We have good and bad morals, why did the all-powerful God give us this choice? We did not have this in our original make up, this was added to us, as a reult of disobedience.

It really isn't actually.

In any discussion, a little decorum is necessary to have a debate.

And insulting or demonizing your opponent is a poor tool for winning arguments

I didn't know it was possible to actually debate with Norman. He just says the same thing over and over again.

What do you mean by 'the atheist explained'? What is it you want to explain about the atheist? Is it what an atheist is? Is it how moral/immoral an atheist is? Is it that the atheist is wrong? You start off with no introduction or explanation at all and with the caps lock on, it's as if you're shouting at me. Whether or not you have a point I don't know, but I suggest you work on your delivery.

While Norman maybe hostile and robotic in his responses,
It doesn't excuse you from being a decent person .. with whom to have a conversation with???

Sorry, just thought that I should mention it.
No offense is meant (intended or otherwise).

Personally, I don't expect much from an online forum on a daily basis. It would be nice and good to have it, but naive to expect and demand it. And in Norman's case, no one is really converting over and agreeing with Norman on much at all. I find it as no surprise that he's come to demanding 'blind respect' and courtesy on a forum to feel some kind of power or prestige...all of which is quite lacking or non-existent for him here.

His last post is yet again very revealing to his psyche.

[god's] GREAT!

Look in the Mirror, for His conclusion's to this point.

Man hasn’t got a clue about the things about God.

God did create 3 perfect free will beings, Adam and Eve and then Christ.

We have good and bad morals, why did the all-powerful God give us this choice? We did not have this in our original make up, this was added to us, as a reult of disobedience.

Pretty much, he's saying "Go read the Bible." Notice his total lack of knowledge of other religions or other philosophies. It's a good retail push....a passive aggressive sale. You don't know you need religion until you have it. It's no better than an infomercial. It's there to tell you to buy; not question the product. The Bible is a global best seller! And if you're not satisfied within the next 30 days, you're money back.

What do you mean by 'the atheist explained'?...

I can assume that English isn’t your first language, the answer is self evident.

What is it you want to explain about the atheist?...

Same answer as above.

Is it what an atheist is? ...

Again, same as above.

Is it how moral/immoral an atheist is?...

Another repeat of above.

Is it that the atheist is wrong?...

hmmm please read above.

You start off with no introduction or explanation at all and with the caps lock on, it's as if you're shouting at me. ...

The statement is self evident. Whether or not you have a point I don't know, but I suggest you work on your delivery.

Again, reread the subject matter, it’s self evident.

The atheist explained. What does that mean? It's bad english. I'm not sure what it means at all. It's like saying 'the tiger explained'. What is explained? Is it the tigers size? It's hunting habits? What?
No, what is evident is that I don't get your point. Saying to me that it is obvious does not magically make me understand that which you think is obvious. Well clearly it's not evident to me or else I wouldn't have asked the questions. Maye you didn't get that. That's alright because I've just explained it to you instead of slapping a 'it's self evident' into your face. You could have just said yes or no to the last couple of questions. And yet - you didn't. So I ask you again. What is it that you're trying to get across?

Oh, and you told me to work on my delivery? Was there something about my former post that you did not understand? What was it? I'll explain it to you.
I've re-read your first post. It has no structure or arguments at all. It's like noise from a radio. I really think you should work on your delivery. Here's a little help: start by stating the point of your post. And you're right. English is not my first language. It's my third.

Since English is your third language, read slowly, and use a dictionary to help you along, or maybe, have someone explain what the followings is about.

Possibly, there is something wrong with your puter there, and your not reciving all of the info.

However, if that's not the case, please don't reply, with the same redundant questions.

Atheist explained:
Ps 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The “FOOL” hath said in his/her heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Meanings of a FOOL

AV-fool 9, foolish 5, vile person 2, foolish man 1, foolish women 1; 18

1) foolish, senseless, fool

T.H. Horne Vol. 1God’s great plan of Salvation faces the..

….the four great moral evils: atheism, skepticism, immorality, and vice….

…ATHEIST, in the strict and proper sense of the word, is one who does not believe in the existence of a God, or who owns no being superior to nature. It is compounded of the two terms, a negative, God, signifying without God. Atheists have been also known by the name infidels ; but the word infidel is now commonly used to distinguish a more numerous party, and is become almost synonymous with Deist.

He who disbelieves the existence of a God, as an infinite, intelligent-, and a moral agent, is a direct or speculative Atheist ;

he who confesses a Deity and providence in words, but denies them in his life and actions, is a practical Atheist.

That Atheism existed in some sense before the flood….as it is observed by Dean Sherlock, "The universal deluge, and the confusion of languages, had so abundantly convinced mankind of a divine power and providence, that there was no such creature as an Atheist, till their ridiculous idolatries had tempted some men of wit and thought, rather to own no God than such an the Heathens worshipped."

…Atheistical principles were long nourished and cherished in Greece, and especially among the atomical, peripatetic, and skeptical philosophers ; and hence some have ascribed the origin of Atheism to the philosophy of Greece…

These principles, with the other improvements of Greece, were transferred to Rome ; and, excepting in Italy, we hear little of Atheism, for many ages after the Christian era. " For some ages before the Reformation," says Archbishop Tillotson, " Atheism was confined to Italy, and had its chief residence at Rome.

But, in this last age, Atheism has travelled over the Alps and infected France, and now of late it hath crossed the seas, and invaded our nation, and hath prevailed to amazement.

However, to Tillotson, and other able writers, we owe its suppression in this country ; for they pressed it down with a weight of sound argument, from which it has never been able to raise itself. For although in our time, in France and Germany a subtle Atheism was revived, and spread its unhallowed and destructive influence for many years throughout the Continent, it made but little progress in this better-instructed nation.

Atheism, in its primary sense, comprehends, or at least goes beyond, every heresy in the world ; for it professes to acknowledge no religion, true or false.

The two leading hypotheses which have prevailed, among Atheists, respecting this world and its origin, are, that of Ocellus Lucanus, adopted and improved by Aristotle, that it was eternal and that of Epicurus, that it was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms.

That the soul is material and mortal, Christianity an imposture, the Scripture a forgery, the worship of God superstition, hell a fable, and heaven a dream, our life without providence, and our death without hope, like that of asses and dogs, are part of the glorious gospel of our modern Atheists."

The being of a God may be proved from the marks of design, and from the order and beauty visible in the world ; from universal consent ; from the relation of cause and effect; from internal consciousness ; and from the necessity of a final as well as an efficient cause.

Of all the false doctrines and foolish opinions that ever infested the mind of man, nothing can possibly equal that of Atheism, which is such a monstrous contradiction of all evidence, to all the powers of understanding, and the dictates of common sense, that it may be well questioned whether any man can really fall into it by a deliberate use of his judgment.

All nature so clearly points out, and so loudly proclaims, a Creator of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, that whoever hears not its voice, and sees not its proofs, may well be thought willfully deaf, and obstinately blind.

If it be evident, self-evident, to every man of thought, that there can be no effect without a cause, what shall we say of that manifold combination of effects, that series of operation?, that system of wonders, which fill the universe, which present themselves to all our perceptions, and strike our minds and our senses on every side ?

Every faculty, every object of every faculty, demonstrates a Deity.

The meanest insert we can see, the minutest and most contemptible weed we can tread upon, is really sufficient to confound Atheism, and baffle all its pretensions.

How much more that astonishing variety and multiplicity of God's works with which we are continually surrounded !

Let any man survey the face of the earth, or lift up his eyes to the firmament; let him consider the nature and instincts of brute animals, and afterward look into the operations of his own mind, and will he presume to say or suppose that all the objects he meets with are nothing more than the result of unaccountable accidents and blind chance ?

Can lie possibly conceive that such wonderful order should spring out of confusion ? or that such perfect beauty should lie ever formed by the fortuitous operations of unconscious, inactive particles of matter ?

As well, and more easily, might he suppose that an earthquake might happen to build towns and cities ; or the materials carried down by a flood fit themselves up without hands into a regular fleet.

For what are towns, cities, or fleets, in comparison of the vast and amazing fabric of the universe !

In short, Atheism offers such violence to all our faculties, that it seems scarce credible it should ever really find any place in the human understanding.

Atheism is unreasonable, because it gives no tolerable account of the existence of the world.

This is one of the greatest difficulties with which the Atheist has to contend.

For he must suppose either that the world is eternal, or that it was formed by chance and a fortuitous concourse of the parts of matter.

That the world had a beginning, is evident from universal tradition, and the most ancient history that exists ; from there being no memorials of any actions performed previously to the time assigned in that history as the birth of the creation ; from the origin of learning and arts, and the liability of the parts of matter to decay.

That the world was not produced by chance, is also evident.

Nothing can be more unreasonable than to ascribe to chance an effect which appears with all the characters of a wise design and contrivance.

Will chance fit means to ends, over in ten thousand instances, and not fail in a single one ?

How often might a man, after shaking a set of letters in a bag, throw them on the ground, before they would become an exact poem, or form a good discourse in prose ?

In short, the arguments in proof of Deity are so numerous, and at the same time so obvious to a thinking mind, that to waste time in disputing with an Atheist, is approaching too much toward that irrationality, which may be considered as one of the most striking characteristics of the sect.

The more noted Atheist, since the Reformation, are Machiavel, Spinoza, Hobbes, Blount, and Vanini.

To these may be added Voltaire the coryphaeus of the sect, and the great nursing father of that swarm of them which has appeared in those last days.

Dr. Samuel Clarke, in his " Demonstration of the Being of a God," says, that Atheism arises either from stupid ignorance, or from corruption of principles and manners, or from the reasoning's of false philosophy ; and he adds, that the latter, who are the only Atheistical persons capable of being reasoned with at all, must of necessity own that, supposing it cannot be proved to be true, yet it is a thing very desirable, and which any wise man would wish to be true, for the great benefit and happiness of man, that there was a God, an intelligent and wise, a just and good Being, to govern the world.

Whatever hypothesis these men can possibly frame, whatever argument they can invent, by which they would exclude God and providence out of the world ; that very argument or hypothesis, will of necessity lead them to this concession.

If they argue, that our notion of God arises not from nature and reason, but from the art and contrivance of politicians ; that argument itself forces them to confess, that it is manifestly for the interest of human society, that it should be believed there is a God, if they suppose that the world was made by chance, and is every moment subject to be destroyed by chance again ; no man can be so absurd as to contend, that it is as comfortable and desirable to live in such an uncertain stale of things, and so continually liable to ruin, without any hope of renovation, as in a world that is under the preservation and conduct of a powerful, wise, and good God.

If they argue against the being of God, from the faults and defects which they imagine they can find in the frame and constitution of the visible and material world ; this supposition obliges them to acknowledge that it would have been better the world had been made by an intelligent and wise Being, who might have prevented all faults and imperfections.

If they argue against providence, from the faultiness and inequality which they think they discover in the management of the moral world ; this is a plain confession, that it is a thing more fit and desirable in itself, that the world should be governed by a just and good Being, than by mere chance or unintelligent necessity.

Lastly, if they suppose the world to be eternally and necessarily self-existent, and consequently that every thing in it is established by a blind and eternal fatality; no rational man can at the same time deny, but that liberty and choice, or a free power of acting, is a more eligible state, than to be determined thus in all our actions, as a stone is to move downward, by an absolute and inevitable fate.

In a word, which way so ever they turn themselves, and whatever hypothesis they make, concerning the original and frame of things, nothing in so certain and undeniable, as that man, considered without the protection and conduct of a superior Being, is in a far worse case than upon supposition of the being and government of God, and of men's being under his peculiar conduct, protection, and favor.

Listen, if you want respect then you must give it also.
First you ask for respect and then given none.
Who the hell do you think you are?
Others here can see your bullying ways.

Cumulus asked a direct question on your topic.
You have yet to reply with an answer that doesn't confused and bewilder.
Bold and caps locked?
Again copying other's words and presenting them as your own ...
your words ring empty of truth and love.
Please go back to your roots and find that thing inside of yourself which made you real.

@CBW, thank you for your comments
@Mikekk86, reaching out ... starts with knowing your audience
Since you have already decided who your audience is ...
there is no need to beat a dead horse .. like Norman does.

Beating a dead horse would be me actually trying to discuss something with a one-way closed-mind like Norman. He's pretty much directing you to the Bible and has absolutely no mind of his own. I agree with Norman on one count: "please don't reply, with the same redundant questions." Norman obviously doesn't get it and in turn thinks you guys all don't get him. I already had my fun figuring Norman out. Now my fun lies in decoding his posts to their bare bone true meaning for $hits and giggles. I have chosen my audience, and it comes with better company.

It's like you people are going on Fox News to argue with Bill O Reilly; While I moved on to CNN.

I respect your views about atheism
and I understand Norman's desire to push his God like a drug dealer.

But, one's view is determined by one's experiences in life.
For example, Doctor Timothy Leary ... famous for taking LSD and leading a culture shock
His view is that there is so much more to our world than what we can see.

Baba Ram Dass ... a person who took LSD and then went searching for a guru in India.
He wrote such books as "Be Here Now"

And still another, Carlos Castaneda wrote books about his apprenticeship with a Yaqui mystic.

Listen, don't advocate drugs or LSD. Just that one's experiences determines one's view of the world.
My view is that theists and atheist are two sides of the same coin
And until one can dispose of the coin, one will never be open to the possiblities
that the universe has available to us. Namaste.

I'm sure when one is drugged up on LSD, they have their own 'experience.' Just like if someone was raised to believe in the tooth fairy they will continue to believe in it until they rationalize otherwise or they blindly just have faith in the tooth fairy and keep believing---or even both. LSD is a hallucinogen after all. We should all be agnostic at the very least---which is why I stand by the term "agnostic atheist" to better illustrate where I come from. I'm open to that which can be proven or at least be on par of a theory. For why believe in the unproven? Someone, such as Norman, believes in the unproven and stands by it as if fact and backs it up with the Bible (shows how resourceful Norman is). Whatever you want to call it, 'experience' or whatever, it's still irrational and can be brushed aside as unfounded. Religion might as well be a hallucinogen.

I used LSD as a way .. some people used to have experiences out of the norm.
Those experiences dramatically changed the course of those people's lives.
There are other experiences you can have that will influence you

People aren't completely rationale and logical at all times.
After all, we're human .. with emotions and relationships.
If you want logic then two people would never fall in love and get married to have kids.
They would just donate their sperm and eggs and let some poor sap have the kids.
Who wants to spend that much time and effort and money into raising children????

What is it that drives daughter's crazy when their mom calls them?
Rationale?? Logic?? We are human and being human ... we need something else.
Some may call it intuition or leap of faith ... it is something you may only experience once
Not repeatable and therefore not scientific or logical.

Please don't forget that the whole is greater than the sum of our parts.

I only hope people are rationale and logical to improve their lives, not replace them. I disagree with your statement that to be rationale and logical is to not want to fall in love or not want children or a family. I think logic, rationality, love and a want of a family can all coexist. Your examples stating otherwise are only portraying the materialistic superficial reasons why starting a family is hard. It does not mention at all the human desire to start a family, to love and be loved, to care for others, to want to spend on others, to carry on the family lineage, to give the opportunity of life to one you can call your son or daughter, etc.

Humans do have a need to fill their curiosities or want to be ruled in some form of social structure. The universe is large and expansive. The micro world we can only see through microscopes are amazing. You need not look any further than reality to obtain something more. Something else. Or you can go watch Lord of the Rings, participate in cosplay or read some interesting fictional books if illusionist fantasy is what you desire.

People can be influenced by certain things....like a hallucinogen drug, but this is no excuse in justifications that require no such influence and where the influence hinders the conclusions rather than aid it or give it another relevant perspective.

Such is the case with homosexual rights (human rights, really). Many supported the sodomy laws, prohibiting sexual acts of anal or oral sex. This was a direct attack on the gay community. You can call that religious influence in law. I call it unfair and an irrational law. It's no wonder why that law didn't last. But it's condoning these "influences" and "majority is right" mentality that let's them almost get away with it.

What I'm saying is that we are much more than logic or rationale.
And if you use only that then love doesn't make sense ...
who the hell would subjugate themselves to another person?
For what reason? Understand? Humans are emotional and have instincts.
You can't base your life only on the logical and forget the rest of yourself.

Maybe god or religion or something about the universe fulfills this requirement in ourselves.
Buddha didn't exactly go looking for a god to solve his problems.
After enlightenment, he chose to help others .. why?
Does logic or rationale demand this?


We really are more than a simple sum of our parts

I don't really know anyone who just uses logic and rationale for absolutely everything, every time. You can rationalize that helping others is good thing to do and thus do it. That's what I do. Or you can rationalize that while it's good, you have something yourself very important you need to do as a first priority. Logic and rationality is not a religion. They are merely concepts and tools. Like I said earlier, "I only hope people are rationale and logical to improve their lives, not replace them."

Some people may use logic to say,"I don't want to put so much money, time and effort in raising a family." That is not the fault of rationality or logic---it's the person's choice alone and their personality which drives that conclusion. Rationality can conclude different decisions. I am sure you are aware of that. No one is arguing to just use logic and rationality for every aspect of life as there are diverse aspects of life. For the most part, I think your arguing your own questions I did not bring up or suggest but you seem to insinuate you are replying to me directly. You make it seem like I don't understand that humans have instincts and emotions...you're trying very hard to argue with me to the point where you're arguing things no one has even brought up or suggested. It intrigues me.

Guess it is when I read that you choose not to believe in a god cuz there has been no reason to ...
I tried to give you a reason. Because, you are more than flesh and bones.
Your mind gives rise to wants and desires ...
But, it is your spirit that lives beyond the flesh ...

Well, never mind the rantings of an old fart.
Cuz, I never asked anyone to believe in god ... only in themsleves??

If all the people in the world is logical and rational then the world would be dominated by Atheists but there are many people still want the unexplainable or the observable phenomenom to be what is is even if there is no scientific explanation. Even scientists like Enrico Fermi the inverntor or the Nuclear Reactor believes in God but he was still able to invent the greatest inverntion created by mankind. Things can be done and achieved even if you believe in God or not.

Yea, I just wish they didn't force their ideals on to all of society through politics, government decisions, law and public places. Plus many believe atheists are one of the most untrustworthy immoral people in the world....I don't ask for much. But when i do ask for it, many may complain I am infringing upon their religious rights to infringe upon my rights, lol.

And this is what the issue really is. Everything else is moot.

Agnosticism > Atheism