Each US F-22 cost $300 millions and $50,000 per hour to fly. Not to mention millions millions of dollars will be spent just on maintenance per year for one. It is a heck of expensive jet fighter. China's fifth-generation fighter will probably be no different. It will cost a lot to build and maintain. Not to mention billions and billions of dollars have already spent on R&D. Despite its costs, China’s jetfighter might have a chance to challenge the US air supreme in the Pacific Ocean.

There has been too much publications about China's fifth gen fighters. Nothing to show for it as of yet. I won't believe its coming until I actually see REAL pictures of it. Same goes for the carrier.

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Dude the plane does exist. Thanks to Bill Clinton who gave up some specs of the F22 to China in order to secure more loans from China (the US is in the poor house without China propping it up), there are some pics of the plane online, it does look like an F22 rip off. Rumors has it that Obama is now on the verge to decide to give up more military technology in exchange of China not collapsing the dollar as early as the end of the month. September 30 is the key date right now for the US to secure $9 trillion dollars from its creditors (china isnt budging unless US gives up military technology, leaves Okinawa and pay debts in Yuan going forward), the collapse is predicted to happen sometime in November to early January 2010. If nothing happened during this period that means China got what it wants, see this J-X fighter flying soon using blueprints of the F22.

Be serious. This is Chinese Serious Talk.

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This is true, how do you think the US deficit could climb to $2 Trillion in current account in 1999. Now it is $11 Trillion. The overall government liability totals $54 Trillion. Not counting this year's bail outs of $23.7 Trillion. Oh yeah they are asking China for $9 Trillion more to fund the fiscal year of 2010. Yes the US is so broke, their consumers are so tapped out. They need to borrow from China in order to get their GDP up. 70% of their GDP is made up consumption, all of it is via Credit.

Of course none of those come for free, the F22 specs were handed out by Bill Clinton during 1999. Google it and while you are googling look at the pics of the J-X how similar it is to the F22.

one, they are fake pictures and two you need to turn out some real proof cos this is not a war-gaming or imagination forum.

Source please.

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Stop being lazy and google it on your own next time...

Clinton Gave China Chips for Nuclear War

Charles R. Smith
Wednesday, Oct. 1, 2003

Newly declassified documents show that President Bill Clinton personally approved the transfer to China of advanced space technology that can be used for nuclear combat.

The documents show that in 1996 Clinton approved the export of radiation hardened chip sets to China. The specialized chips are necessary for fighting a nuclear war.

"Waivers may be granted upon a national interest determination," states a Commerce Department document titled "U.S. Sanctions on China."

"The President has approved a series of satellite related waivers in recent months, most recently in November, 1996 for export of radiation hardened chip sets for a Chinese meteorological satellite," noted the Commerce Department documents.

These special computer chips are designed to function while being bombarded by intense radiation. Radiation hardened chips are considered critical for atomic warfare and are required by advanced nuclear tipped missiles.

Judicial Watch obtained the documents through the Freedom of Information Act, a Washington-based political watchdog group.

Several documents were withheld from release by the U.S. Commerce Department for commercial and personal privacy exemptions, but none of the documents were withheld for national security reasons. Judicial Watch is expected to appeal the withholdings.

Decade of Betrayal

U.S. intelligence sources stated that the newly released documents illustrate the extent to which the Clinton White House placed trade – and trade with China specifically – above national security.

"In all likelihood we will be glowing in the dark before we discover the true extent of the Clinton decade of betrayal," stated Rick Fisher, Asian Security Fellow at the Center for Security Policy.

"If it was indeed intended for a new PRC weather satellite, then it is possible that it was used for their new polar orbit weather satellites. This is significant because the Chinese themselves acknowledge that their polar orbit weather satellites directly contribute to their long-range missile targeting capability. This becomes even more important for their new smaller but more accurate warheads, used on their new DF-31, DF-31A, DF-5 Mod2 and JL-2 missiles. If they encounter significant weather, warhead accuracy degrades, reducing their utility," stated Fisher.

"Inasmuch as similar U.S. military weather satellites perform the same missions, the Clinton Administration had to have known they were assisting a PLA strategic military capability," concluded Fisher.

In addition, the Chinese military is clearly interested in acquiring advanced radiation hardened computer chips for its strategic nuclear arsenal.

U.S. Chips for PRC Nukes

Currently, China has only liquid fueled, long-range missiles, and the majority of them are based inside underground silos. These long-range rockets are reported to be "bore-sighted" – meaning the underground silos are aimed directly at target cities inside the United States.

The Chinese army is now attempting to shift its strategic nuclear arsenal to a solid-fuel "launch on command" capability. These new missiles are rail- and road-mobile and require sophisticated electronic guidance systems to accurately strike their intended targets.

As part of this upgrade, the Chinese army is also modifying its nuclear warhead designs to arm new survivable missiles such as the DF-31 and JL-2. Chinese engineers are planning to equip these new missiles with MIRV technology, allowing each missile to carry multiple nuclear warheads.

Again, the U.S. radiation hardened computer chip technology is a logical addition to the reconfiguration and upgrade of Chinese nuclear weapons.

Stolen U.S. Chips

Another critical element of the Clinton-supplied waiver is the fact that it took place during an investigation of Chinese espionage into missing U.S. radiation hardened satellite chips.

In February 1996, a Chinese Long March rocket carrying a Loral Intelsat satellite failed and crashed on lift-off. The Loral Intelsat payload was badly damaged. The Chinese intended to launch the Loral satellite into deep space as they had been paid to do by Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz.

However, fate took a twisted path, and so did the Chinese rocket. The Long March rocket failed on launch and crashed into a nearby Chinese village, killing over 200 innocent civilians. The failure of the Long March allowed the U.S. to recover the sealed satellite guidance box, which revealed the control board of radiation-hardened chips was missing.

The missing board from the Loral Intelsat satellite is no mystery. It quickly became obvious that Chinese engineers removed the special electronics and kept the board for examination. The stolen Loral electronics consist of radiation hardened, encrypted telemetry chips, stored in a secure flight control box similar to those found on airliners. The NSA changed all U.S. satellite codes as a result of the stolen Loral chips, costing American taxpayers millions of dollars.

1996 Illegal Campaign Donations

Another factor involved in the November 1996 waiver issued by then-President Clinton is the fact that illegal money entered the U.S. elections from the Chinese army. The money was donated to the DNC from a variety of sources including convicted Chinagate figures John Huang, Charlie "Yah-Lin" Trie and Johnny Chung.

The 1996 Clinton-Gore campaign readily accepted much of the money from the Chinese army sources without question, and in some cases took these donations in cash. The allegations of Chinese espionage and illegal campaign donations were never investigated properly.

The successful effort by China to obtain U.S. microchip technology included espionage, sabotage and perhaps bribery. The red intelligence windfall freed the Chinese army to more accurately target American cities with atomic weapons using advanced U.S technology.

The legacy that President Clinton left for the 21st century is a modern Chinese army equipped for global nuclear war.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articl.../29/25139.shtml

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China also gave back to clinton's favor by helping in his campaign...

http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/h980618-prc8.htm

Here are some pics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtXpFWNZt_s

that article says nothing about F-22
it wouldn't make sense for Clinton to trade military technology for loans. the whole reason U.S. is still massing arms is so they can secure resources when they're bankrupt through brute force.

i don't trust newsmax as it is a republican biased website. You are better off trusting world weekly news...

Only in TylerDurden's mind does "Computer chips" = "F-22 Raptor aircraft."

First...There is no criteria that says 'fifth generation' design will have such-and-so features, 'sixth generation' design will have so-and-so features, 'tenth generation' will have death rays, ''fifteenth generation' will have faster than light engines, 'twentieth generation' can access alternate universes...and so on. No one is sitting around setting this list up and a committee vote to accept or reject it. What we do have is whenever a design is deployed as operational that is an evolutionary leap from the current designs, we simply place the new aircraft into a made up class and expect everyone else to emulate its features as much as possible. The F-22 has an AESA radar system, supercruise, very low radar observability, a relaxed stability airframe and thrust vectored engines. So in manner of speaking, these items are sort of the 'official' unofficial standards upon which all future designs must meet in order to qualify as 'fifth generation'. Today, not all airframes are relaxed stability, fly-by-wire and only a handful have some versions of electronic scan array radars, not a legitimate Active Elec Scan Array that is in the F-22 and is being retrofitted into the current F-15 and F-18. So the class 'fifth generation' is quite after the fact. That mean unless the new Chinese airframe has at the very least:

- Relaxed pitch axis stability,
- Full digital fly-by-wire flight control system for all three flight axis,
- An AESA radar,
- Thrust vectored engines.

This new aircraft cannot be classified as 'fifth generation'. Helmeted sighting/targeting system do not elevate the aircraft into this class since this system is only an augment to weapons delivery. A superior airframe that can enable the enemy pilot to get into a better position will render the helmet mounted sighting/targeting system useless. The ESA radar system cannot be Passive, as in PESA, but must be Active, as in AESA. To make it even more difficult, the AESA system must have subarray partitioning capability, turning the main single radar antenna into several smaller antennas for multiple uses, meaning one subarray is for volume search, one subarray for tracking of near threats, one subarray for data relay and another subarray for electronic countermeasures. Currently, the AESA system in the F-22 is capable of turning the main single antenna into nine subarrays, that is from one moment of being a single antenna, the pilot now has nine different antennas for use as the mission require. If the new Chinese fighter cannot meet this unofficial standard for 'fifth generation' design, except for propaganda purposes, it cannot be classify as 'fifth generation'.

Clear as mud?

there was a rumour about a possible J-15 maiden flight last week but no pictures so far

theres a lot of rumors. Thats the problem. Too many rumors and too little actual results.

Rumors are good for keeping Western Imperial nations from even thinking of attacking China.

I think western defense intelligence relies on something more tangible then rumors.

Globalization is what keeps highly economically interdependent nations from fuggin' each other up and causing WW3. Even more so than "nuclear weapons".

It's is to everyone's benefit that America comes out of this recession alive. Especially from the Chinese point of view where American consumerism has taken a hit. This is primarily the reason why China is supporting America's extravant spending spree by financing US debt. China depends on US for it's exports (and vice versa for imports). So it makes sense to preserve American economic stability.... It's good business for the Chinese economy to keep US spending and loaning it more money to spend.

A brother helping another brother out (with a profit motive in mind... China obviously wants to keep US alive by loaning it money.... later to take that money back via business transactions and export related manufacturing later).... Clever chinese.

I was about to say........if China managed to make the U.S. back off by suggesting a rumor every time...........


yeah.

Did you know that Western Spies (Intelligence) have next to no chance for gathering info on what goodies China has ? So they just ASSUME that China has this and that and then rumors start spreading.....




"Clever" ???? Try the opposite !!! Would you call a person who keep lending money out to another person who will probably never pay back "Clever" ? China keep lending money to Uncle SAM and Uncle SAM hands China a roll of toilet paper called "US Treasury Bonds" but China is not allowed to use this roll of toilet paper to buy any US Assets.



Well the rumors are spread by Western Analysts themselves and not China. China hardly talks about what weapons she has...

And how do you know this? Do you work for MI-6 or the CIA on a top-secret clearance? How do you know how the inner workings of Western intelligence really operate? (And by the way, if you do, you're violating your clearance policies by releasing info like this...........)

Actually, they have many ways to gather info on China's capabilities. If it wasn't the case, China wouldn't have intercepted the "research" vessels "researching" near Hainan Island.

kinda liked that cox report that said PRC had neutron bombs a decade ago...

America has always paid back it's loans.

To question this Haziz... means you are an idiot.

America has always paid back it's US treasury bonds.

To question this Haziz... means you are an idiot.

US stimulus package is a mere 3-4% of GDP compared to WW2 spending of nearly 40% of GDP. America has gone through major spending periods like this before.

Plus, US has over $35 trillion dollars in Federal collateral (goods, services, equipment, buildings) to sell off to pay back US treasury bonds..

That means US will always back US treasury bonds... unless the Fed has nothing to sell off. Then China is fu-ked.

CHINA AND US ARE MAJOR EXPORT/IMPORT PARTNERS. It's to China's benefit to see American consumers buy MORE Chinese products and that the US keeps on spending. It helps drive the Chinese export oriented economy by keeping American economy alive by loaning out money of US gov't to revive it's economy.

China's leaders are not as dumb as you Hafiz.

Thus far, there is little evidence to show that China's 5th generation fighter will even be close to that of the F-22, or F-35.
There is also little evidence that it won't be.
because there is no Evidence for ANY claim, because there hasn't been ANY official, and credible claim.

the Chinese stealth program, J-xx, J-14, J-15, or w/e you call it, is all based upon rumors. Nobody knows what it is, or how it performs.

But there are 2 things you need to remember.

1. China JUST finished an aircraft that is comparable to the F-16C/D model.
2. F-22 is undergoing constant upgrades, like all airplanes, by the time the J-XX is rolled out, the F-22 will have vastly improved.

China should not worry too much about trying to develop its own F22 equivalent. These planes are expensive to build and maintain and require a lot of ground time between missions. This makes them highly unreliable in a prolonged air campaign and the US's decision to field them simply diverts resources away from more durable alternatives.

China should just continue with its 4th and 4+ programmes and ensure that low unit cost and reliability are uppermost in the design spec. Such aircraft in numbers, will be superior to anything else currently in the region and capable of neutralising any advantage that the few F22's capable of reaching Chinese controlled airspace at any one time, might otherwise enjoy.

by the time the JXX have come out, Washington might even have a sixth generation fighter.

Well, Mr. DUMB DUMB, if Uncle SAM has "tons" of money then why would Americans kneel in front of Chinese leaders begging them to lend USA money over and over again ???

well actually both need each other. China need Usa for export and USA need china to improve its economy (short term loan)