Of Allah and the holy cow

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

The severed head of a cow was recently the center of attention in Malaysia as a group of more than 50 Muslim men gathered outside a state mosque and marched to a government office proudly carrying a cow's head as a symbol of protest while chanting the world-famous praise "Allahu akbar." The subject of the protest was as strange as the symbol called upon to represent it: The Muslim group was against the construction of a Hindu temple in their district. "I challenge the state to go on with the temple construction. I guarantee bloodshed and the state will be held responsible. Allahu akbar!" said the group's spokesman.

"With a temple in our area, we cannot function properly as Muslims The temple would disrupt our daily activities," said another. It is difficult to imagine how a Hindu place of worship could prevent Muslims from functioning properly. More so when such temples do not blare out calls to prayer five times a day beginning at dawn, as is done by mosques across the nation.

The motivation behind parading a cow's head for their cause was obvious: Hindus deem the cow a sacred animal. The Muslim protesters spat at the cow's head and took turns stepping on it as if to display the superiority of their faith. The subject of the protest, and the symbol chosen to represent it, reinforced a common fear among non-Muslim minorities: that religious intolerance is becoming increasingly entrenched in Malaysian society.


IN NOVEMBER 2007, some 30,000 Hindus marched the streets of Kuala Lumpur to protest against discrimination and alleged systematic demolition of Hindu temples by the state.

The protesters met the full force of the state's chemical-laced water cannons and tear gas canisters. Thirty-one protesters who threw the canisters back at the officers were arrested and questionably charged with attempted murder. The five organizers of the protest were detained without trial for some 18 months. In stark contrast, the cow-head protest went ahead without any police intervention.

Malaysia is a nation of contradictions: Secular in constitution, Islamic in practice, its portrayal of racial tolerance is belied by an apartheid-like policy against its non-Muslim minorities . At the heart of these contradictions lies a nostalgic pull away from the secular to emulate life at the time of the prophet. The battle cry of the fundamentalists' cause is heard everywhere, with the nation's voices of reason forced to turn to the Internet.


Religious rows dominate national media: Students arrested for handing Christian pamphlets to Muslims; protests outside churches suspected of facilitating Muslim apostasy; a ban prohibiting non-Muslims from using the word "Allah"; Islamic rehabilitation centers "persuading" Muslims against conversion; a Muslim mother sentenced to be caned for consuming beer, with the woman's father urging the authorities to cane his daughter in public to make her an example. What might be deemed lunacy in the modern world pervades life in Malaysia, troubling its non-Muslim minorities as well as its liberal Muslims.

MALAYSIA STRUGGLES to separate Islam and state governance. The young nation, however, does not stand alone at such a crossroad. Many others are seeing a resurgence of religion, prompting calls for national identity along lines of faith. States that identify with a particular faith face the challenge of religious tolerance - an idea which usually contradicts the assumed faith.


While religion can be a positive influence, when taken to extremes, it can enshrine ignorance, placing unwarranted parameters in the minds of the faithful. It can also sow seeds of prejudice against nonbelievers, as demonstrated in Malaysia.

The religious often fail to appreciate that faith is not fact, and that people can find spirituality in more ways than one, regardless of faith. Amid universal belief by all faiths that there is a higher power; if someday God revealed Himself, the irony is that God would likely be rejected by the respective religious groups if the message He conveyed did not conform to their expectations and received teachings from holy books and texts.

Hehehehe .... trust me that there will be many Malays will condemn jews.

They (mostly malays who have been brainwashed by UMNO) will deny the content of this article and will say that the Jerusalem Post has a "hidden agenda" to discredit Malaysia ....

Lol....the constitution was drafted by Lord Reid ..aka Illuminati agent.

How come we practice Islam went the enforcing power is secular?

"With a temple in our area, we cannot function properly as Muslims The temple would disrupt our daily activities," said another. It is difficult to imagine how a Hindu place of worship could prevent Muslims from functioning properly. More so when such temples do not blare out calls to prayer five times a day beginning at dawn, as is done by mosques across the nation.

MALAYSIA STRUGGLES to separate Islam and state governance.

Haha I like this part. I really like this part.




Sorry to say this Jerusalem Post, but there is no separation of church and state in Islam. Islam is a political religion, and aims to establish an Islamic government wherever the religion exists. Religion influences politics and politics influences the religion. Which is why you see Islamic militants working to overthrow the government in almost every Muslim nation - it is a universal aim in fundamentalist - or should I say 'true?' Islam. There is no room or reason for secularity in fundamentalist Islam.

That is why there was the Crusades - because Christianity allowed itself to be influenced by politics at that time. I hate to say this but this is what we are seeing in Islam today - Crusades applied in another more subtle but gradually prominent form. As long as I see this kind of news coming up I will never believe in that 'Islam is a religion of peace' talk. Unless of course, if it is a 'religion of peace' only if non-Muslims abide by its rules and biddings...

It should be the other way shouldn't it? The govnt allowing religion to dictate its decisions, something we are seeing more and more in Malaysia. Malaysia is supposed to be secular in nature, as its implied in the constitution. But sadly, it is not in practice.

The way Islam is being preached the way some feel it should be practiced, makes it impossible for Muslims to live peacefully with other religions. You can see it everywhere around the world. In every country where there is a significantly large Muslim population in existance with other religions, there is religious conflict(well except maybe Singapore). Even in Britain where there is a comparatively small Muslim population, there's conflict. In Malaysia, there's religious conflict between Muslims and Christians and Muslims and Hindu's but, no conflict between Christians and Hindu's. I do believe that Islam is a religion of peace but, it is not being preached as such and more importantly it is not being practiced as such.

For there to be religious tolerance, all religions must be seen and be treated as equals, one religion cannot be treated more favourably over another. Sadly, most imams and the like will never preach this, why becasue they fear that if all religions are equal, they will lose their followers and therefore their power and influence. Which is what this is really about, its not about life after death and going to heaven. its about power and influence here on earth.

@ the bolded part: And the nagging question is why is that, swingdoc? And why wouldn't the imams preach religious equality? Is it only because they are scared of losing followers? Or is it because there is no such thing in the Quran? I am not implying either, but it is something to think about.

I am aware of the verses promoting peace in the Quran. But there are also verses that completely contradict that. We cannot just quote the peaceful surahs and say Islam is a religion of peace and leave behind the less palatable one. Because if so then the Quran should might as well just do away with the 'unwanted' verses.

So which is the true Islam? The fundamentalist Islam or the moderate Islam? I think it's best we let the Muslims answer this for themselves. And the answer will probably determine Malaysia's course for the next coming years, as long as Muslims govern the country.

Even in the Bible there are apparent contradictions and that is why as I've said before it depends on which parts of the Bible/Quran people CHOOSE to emphasise. It would be very nieve, bordering on stupidity if a person believes that inter-religious peace and one religion ruling over another can exist simultaneously. So as I've said before, it is up to Muslims to decide which one God holds in higher importance, treating your fellowman fairly and living in peace or one religion ruling over another. I can't imagine either the Prophet Mohammed or Allah, would put peace ahead of anything else. But it still would depend on what Muslims CHOOSE isn't it? Often when looking at the fine print, people forget what the bigger picture is, and this is what is happening to Muslims. I still believe the choices made are very much for here, now and power, rather then what is truly God's will.

You have a good point... I'm sure many Muslims, or at least the Muslims we know like our friends, colleagues etc would prefer moderation. But why is it that moderate Islam is not taking as strong a stand as fundamentalist Islam (or at least that's how it appears to be)? Look at the so-called 'moderate' Muslims we have for ministers... it takes some pushing from the rakyat to get them into action against these cowhead protestors. It's not only cowhead protestors, it's many other things - militants overthrowing governments, Uighurs in China, etc. We don't hear as much as we should from the moderate Muslim world.

And yes choosing is one thing, but if one choice is closer to the true beliefs then one way or another I believe it will gradually be more prominent. I don't know if it is too early to say fundamentalist Islam is more prominent, I hope not, but the rise of fundamentalist Islam in Malaysia is certainly alarming. And are all imams fundamentalists? If not, then the moderate ones should do a more active job encouraging moderate Muslims to make a stronger stand, if they aren't already. If they are all fundamentalists, then why? I refer to imams as they are the ones who are supposed to be more versed in the Quran and they are the ones who are assigned to preach the truth about Islam to Muslims.

It is my prayer and my hope that Malaysia never becomes like those Middle Eastern countries. Unfortunately if fundamentalist Islam takes a stronghold in Malaysia we will see her going into that direction. Already PAS is making allegations that there are 'Muslim seats' in the Sarawakian parliament. For that to cross PAS' mind is, like Datuk Daud Abdul Rahman said, 'a bad omen' - regardless of whether or not PAS is right.

Although I would agree with you that fundamentalist Islam is growing in Malaysia, remember though that it is the noisy ones that make the most noise, having said that it is still concerning. What is more concerning though is that Muslims on the internet, what I would consider "educated" Muslims defend many fundamentalist views. If these Muslims who are supposed to be the moderate ones, feel this way, then what about your everyday Muslims? I know I sound like a snob but people who are educated are supposed to be less influenced by rhetoric and be more able to think for themselves. If they are either still influenced by arguments of superiority or truly believe that it is their right to rule over others, then what about the "common" people who are usually more easily influenced. Essentially, if this is a predominant opinion among Malays, Malaysia to put it bluntly is screwed.

A while ago there was the case of the 2 Muslim reporters who desecrated a Catholic ceremony, I was reading responses from Muslims in Malaysia on the internet. Not one criticised these reporters, in fact, Imams were defending their actions. Justifying, that any action in the "defence" of Islam regardless of how pathetic the evidence is nor the extent to which they can go to prove the accusation regardless of the evidence is justified. One even described non Muslims as "the enemy". I mean if there's a war on, let the rest of the world know, we certainly would like to treat Muslims here in Australia the same way non Muslims are treated in Malaysia.

The most disappointing thing personally is that when I first visited this site it was in the hope of finding a little bit of "home". Reliving my childhood and reconnecting with the country of my birth. When I started coming here, a small part of me still questioned the wisdom of my parents decision to migrate to Australia. Then I came here and realised that 50% of Malaysians saw me as a "Pendatang Asing", and literally believed that it was their right to rule over me and that they were more deserving then I was simply by the colour of my skin. This is discrimination at its worst, fundamentally no different to Apartheid nor America in the 1800's where a man is judged by the colour of his skin, rather then who he is. The worst thing is that rather then getting better, the mindset is getting worse.

You'd probably be surprised swingdoc to know what my friend has to say - she thinks that it is the kampung Malay Muslims who are more moderate, as the fact that they have greater needs than their city counterparts means they have to co-exist peacefully with their Chinese and Indian neighbours; go to a Chinese shop to get their daily providence, go the Indians for milk supply or other farm produce, etc. Basically it seems that the kampung Malays (I hope you don't mind me sounding a bit more ethnic-aware, as in Malaysia usually when one speaks of the Muslims one can't help but touch on the Malays who are predominently Muslim as well) are more practical than their city counterparts. Here in Sarawak things are still on the more 'practical' side - we even have Muslims buying food from non-Muslim stalls that are not guaranteed halal, basically the mindset is "as long as there is no pork in my food it's okay." Well frankly they do risk going against the teachings of Islam, but another part of you can't help but wish such a level of assurance and trust in each other still exists all over Malaysia.

In the city however, one becomes involved in politics, are more aware of who apparently 'monopolises' the economy, etc. It seems that we often assume or expect the educated to be better behaved or more moderate, but I think we have to readjust our mindset and remember that the kampung folks, who we assume to be less educated, can actually also be more charming and practical in their ways. So I hope the next time you come across an 'educated' person, you'd be less disappointed with the reaction you get... and that includes here in Asiafinest.com.

Anyway I am still hopeful Malaysia can be a better place. Might take a long time or a short time I don't know, but personally I think a long battle fought is usually the one that is more appreciated.

When it comes to secularism and respecting everyone. Malaysia should learn from us singaporeans.

Seeing articles like these only serves to drive home the point.

The peoples of Malaysia (and Indonesia for that matter) were better off under the Majapahits and the Srivijaya.

Hoo-effing-ray!!!!

Really, how do you know this. Besides, although it was drafted by him, it was a committee that decided what should be in the constitution, including Malay representatives and seperate representatives of the Sultan, who are the highest power when representing Muslims, no other race or religion were represented in a similar manner.

Just to add some balance to the article above, please note that I have chosen a news source that has no political or religious interest in Malaysia.
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...lBrandChannel=0

Please also remember that the protests themselves though very concerning in terms of their nature and initial police response, were still "only" participated by 50 people and not necessarily a representation of the feelings of Malaysian Muslims at large.

Haha I like this part. I really like this part.




Sorry to say this Jerusalem Post, but there is no separation of church and state in Islam. Islam is a political religion, and aims to establish an Islamic government wherever the religion exists. Religion influences politics and politics influences the religion. Which is why you see Islamic militants working to overthrow the government in almost every Muslim nation - it is a universal aim in fundamentalist - or should I say 'true?' Islam. There is no room or reason for secularity in fundamentalist Islam.

You know when it was represented by only 50 odd people (that most probably were paid for and given nasi bungkus) ....and no spraying of pepper water canon guns....then these were high possibility been organized by UMNO

Seeing articles like these only serves to drive home the point.

The peoples of Malaysia (and Indonesia for that matter) were better off under the Majapahits and the Srivijaya.

Sure.

When the nation devoted itself to God or spiritual elements, they tend to seek for peace....all end up with erection of temples, tombs and place of worships as you'd see in the East.

When nations devoted themselves to Material stuffs; gold, silver, land, oil etc..etc.. all you see is erections of Castles and FORTS! ...as you see in Anglo Saxon lands.

But I don't think you or Swingdoctor got the content of my statement.

Sure.

When nations devoted themselves to Material stuffs; gold, silver, land, oil etc..etc.. all you see is erections of Castles and FORTS! ...as you see in Anglo Saxon lands.

"Malay representative" ? or "Malay Selective"?

Sultan of the People ? or the British backed & made Kings? Look at the Sultans of today....Pahang & Johor's especially. They are colonization agents. Drunk, Corruptions and Bribery.

What? Reuters have not politically interest in Malaysia? This is globalization, they created this nation and they sure interested that it remains secular.

You know when it was represented by only 50 odd people (that most probably were paid for and given nasi bungkus) ....and no spraying of pepper water canon guns....then these were high possibility been organized by UMNO

There is no separation of Church & State in Christianity either....and as a matter of fact anywhere in the history of mankind. Yet Muslims and Christians for most parts can stay in peace together.

Before Napoleon, all kings of Christian Europe were inaugurated by the Pope or their respective Church. All Kingdom were Devine. Even the Emperor of China, Kings of Assyrians, Babylonian, Pharaoh of Egypt or even the Kings of Sukhothai and Ayuttiya claimed Devine connections.

Separation of Divinity and State is something new, just upon 1920. Divide the 2 entities apart; and you worshiped both. Pray to God while salute, adore, obey (abd, yakbud) and go to war & sacrifice yourself in the honor of the State. This is SRK, not Shah Rukh Khan, but syrik in Islam.

Under Secularism, the world had witness more devastating (WW1 & 2) wars than ever before. Mankind put God aside...and obey the newly created demigods that clashes between one another.

It is not about satu Malaysia, but satu Allah. One God and One Mankind for Him.

Sure.

When the nation devoted itself to God or spiritual elements, they tend to seek for peace....all end up with erection of temples, tombs and place of worships as you'd see in the East.

When nations devoted themselves to Material stuffs; gold, silver, land, oil etc..etc.. all you see is erections of Castles and FORTS! ...as you see in Anglo Saxon lands.

Secularism is a tool created by those who rejected Devine rule. The core group were the Lucifer worshiper themselves. They were rejecting Devine Laws since the days of the Assyrians extortion & deportation of the Israel lost 10 tribes.

Behind the Caucasus Mountain Ranges, they became barbarian tribes....that since the Assyrian days, they were at clashes with the history of civilizations of mankind They were the Gimmerian and the Scythian . The barbaric Scythian as the Persian reference as Sacae, Sakasina, Saksun, or Saxon. It was not Islam, but these too were the tribes that clashes with, defeated & ended the West Roman Empire. http://www.israelite.info/Source_Documents.../AngloSaxon.htm

With the fallen Roman West, and the shifting of Power to the Roman East Constantinople, the Scythian later migrated and settled in Europe and ended the nomadic way of life, but even with adopted civilization, their barbaric inner self are still prevailing strong among few of them. From England, Scotland, Holland etc., they force their barbaric way to the rest of the world. The cunning deception form of barbaric ac begin with Imperial Colonization that later gave way to Riba based Capitalistic Imperialism.

They champion the war on Devine Rule begin with their wasr on Torah Rule into Biblical Rule and now Islam. The term the "War on Terrorism" is a weird cunning deceptive war on Islam champion by the offspring of Barbaric Scythian themselves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMgGC9W-ks8...;fe%20ature=fvw

Well TAR(including UMNO and BN) was the ELECTED leader of Malaysia BEFORE he negotiated the independence of Malaysia from the British, including before being involved in the commitee that drew up the Constitution. So you tell me.

Well the Sultans existed before the British arrived, the Malay kingdoms were absolute monarchies, with the Malay Sultans being the prime defenders of Islam including ruling their subjects according to the Quran, how do you know they were any better back then? At least now they have some accountability, back then there were none. The fact is the Sultans existed before the British arrived, so its absolutely wrong for you to call then colonizing agents, if the Sultans sold out ther subjects for power and wealth, they are more to blame not the British. It is also a fact that the Sultans were the defenders of Islam and that they had representatives at the Reid Commision. No other racial group nor religion were similarly represented.

What a load of crap, when has Reuters ever influenced politics in Malaysia, come on give me just one example. Or are you into bull$hit conspiracy theories to suit YOUR political agenda rather then looking at the facts and then forming an opinion.

You really shouldn't be making accusations without and reasonable proof. I'm no fan of UMNO but neither will I simply accuse them of something when there is absolutely no proof that they are involved.

So tell me if you think UMNO is behind this, what is their objective?

Although many states have the basis of Christianity in some of their laws and customs, as you say there are no "Christian" govnts now, with the exception of the Vatican city. So there are no Christian religious states and neither are there calls for one. This is different in the Muslim world where there is regular calls for Muslim states even in countries where Islam does not dominate. Some religious leaders even justifying the use of violence to achieve this goal, this has happened even in Australia.

Just because seperation of state and religion is something new does not make it wrong. And just because WW1 and WW2 occured in countries that were "secular", does not mean that secularism is the cause of it. The only reason the wars were more deadly is because the world has had a larger population then ever before and the killing machines were much more efficient. Secularism is not the cause of it, PROGRESS was. Even so, Hitler used religion for his own political purposes. Through history the worst atrocities were commited in the name of God by both Christians and Muslims, like today those people were CHOOSING to interprete the holy books in a way that justified their POLITICAL AGENGA. Even today, look at the conflicts and atrocities commited world wide and name me just one that doesn't have a religious spin to it. So your argument that secularism is the cause of violence, is pure crap. Through history more people have been killed in the name of God then for any other reason. I dare you to prove me wrong.

Religion is good and it helps us form morals and teaches us how to treat our fellow man. But to deny that practitioners of religions use it for their own selfish worldly desires is being nieve.

Again what alot of bull$hit. Fortifications were also built during Muslim and Christian empires. And just because a Kingdom had a religious "basis" does not mean they were free from greed and the deisre for power. And you don't have to look very far from home. Look at the Malay Kingdoms, they were fortified, had a religious slant to them yet they continually fought each other for power and influence. Many of then even took Orang Aslis's as slaves.

I suggest you read up on the Crusades and see the atrocities commited by both Muslims and Christians, particularly the Christians. People arond the world are the same and it doesn't matter if thy're Muslim or Christian, they will use everything at their disposal for their political agenda including religion.

What a load of crap, you have formed an opinion and then CHOOSEN to interpret historical facts to suit your opinion.

TAR as electe leader of just "Organised" Malays (not Malays as a whole)

Well... it is almost as saying that Hamid Karzai as the "chosen" people of Afghanistan.

Nope.

Malays have many local Raja and Sultans. Kedah for example have Raja di Kuala Muda, di Larut, di Kuala Kedah, di Jitra, di Perlis, di Satun etc. The Sultan by Malays tradition was by "bia'ah", rotation and seniority amongst the local Raja.

...but community power was in the hand of local Imam, the Sifu or the Tok Guru, who grouped people in cases when "bai'ah" to the Raja was deemed necessary.
The Imam or Ulama were the actual leaders who ule their respective subjects according to the Quran. not the Kings. Sultans received "bai'ah" from the Ulama as an intermediate to the "bai'ah" to the Caliphate in the Ottoman Empire.

Other racial groups were British coolies or corroborates.

Illuminati owns most Giant Media Corps. for the New World Order.

http://www.breakingnews.com/video/how-illu...ia-corporations

I am making hunches and not accusations. Thanks for corrections.
So weird that a small scale parade of 50 people was given highlighted not just by Jerusalem Post but by all local medias as well. They hide and belittled huge assembly of 500,000 people? Too obvious for not making hunches.

On second thought, the Local Medias and the Darulsalem Post was making plain report with multiple "implications" and questions of "who" and "why" that would be created poor deduction coming out from readers minds. Typical un-responsible media for political maneuvers.

No Christian Government and no Muslim Government and no Hindu government too for that matters. (Note: Mahatma Gandhi was a Hindu, Claimed Hindu and practice Hindu..... but Gov was given to Jawahalal Nehru; Claimed as Hindu, but Secular and practice Secularism)

Tried to build one in Afghanistan, but .......
Saudi Arabia is camouflaged Islamic State; actually owned by UK/US co-coagulates.

As for the azan..or call for prayers. Actually it is a no issue. The main issues is the "LOUD SPEAKER".

Religions have been Hijacked and altered...and let astray.......and that happens throughout the history of mankind.

So...Is the solution to removed religion altogether?

Simple to look at it.

If you removed God from our affairs,....It take out accountability altogether.

Even more dangerous....and this is what the current world is becoming....Godlessness.

The Crusades were not about Christianity. It was essentially European. Arab Christians, Egyptian Christians, Ethiopian Christians, Yamen Christians and Jews did not join them but prefer to stay amongst the Muslim until today. The Europeans were the linage of the Scythian..and had been at war with all nations. The Turk-Mongolian Scythian cousin of the Anglo Saxon even invade China.

...lol why not point to the GREAT WALL of China if you are referring to fortification?

...but the Wall was against Gog and Magog....but behind those walls....everything else is peace.

It may be crap to you, but I am putting it up for others to counter refer as well ...and get a head start. It took me 40yrs to wake up...and I sure hope some will take less time.

Sure it is an opinion I deduce from sincere studies. If any errors, please point them out.