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Fictionicon
I would like to know if we even had any ancient ruins in the Philippines? I was doing some research on this topic, and to no avail i couldn't find any Pre-Spaniard ruins. The only thing that is celebrated are the Old Catholic churches that stand there. It just don't sense since we had old kingdoms in the Phil like: Kingdom of Namayan, Kingdom of Tondo,...etc. we even had sultans and datus. I even know as a fact that we had Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim before the colonizers arrived. We had our own writing system based on Indian Sanskrit, we also have these things called Surigao treasures that had Hindu styles on gold jewelry that is only unique to the P.I.


If we are capable of having this in our Pre-Spanish civilization, then it should mean that we should also be capable building kingdoms out of stone. What happen to it? there is a hint in this video and pretty sure we have more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVwErDFfRno starting at 1:37 of the video.



anyway, i am becoming to "speculate" that with the lack of knowing and limited resources about the ancient civilization of Philippines is the reason why "some" Fil-Ams are ashamed to be Filipinos and why a colonized mentality still prevails in the P.I. is mainly the reason of our "deleted" history of 400 years of rule.

have you ever wonder when you type Philippine heritage sites, ruins, .etc..etc ..spanish churches shows up?
have you ever wonder tinikling has Spanish music but the dance is purely southeast Asian. Don't we have something that is purely and distinctively Asian that does not have Spanish influence? Like Pangalay, Bantugan, Kandingan, Sagayan, Tahing Baila, and Lunsay. Although these are all muslim culture dances from the south, it is no denying its filipino cutlure with out the "filipino" brand.

We have a rich culture before the Spanish arrived, but where is our ancient ruin monuments? what happen?
Suzuka00
QUOTE (Fictionicon @ Sep 20 2009, 12:46 AM) *
I would like to know if we even had any ancient ruins in the Philippines? I was doing some research on this topic, and to no avail i couldn't find any Pre-Spaniard ruins. The only thing that is celebrated are the Old Catholic churches that stand there. It just don't sense since we had old kingdoms in the Phil like: Kingdom of Namayan, Kingdom of Tondo,...etc. we even had sultans and datus. I even know as a fact that we had Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim before the colonizers arrived. We had our own writing system based on Indian Sanskrit, we also have these things called Surigao treasures that had Hindu styles on gold jewelry that is only unique to the P.I.


If we are capable of having this in our Pre-Spanish civilization, then it should mean that we should also be capable building kingdoms out of stone. What happen to it? there is a hint in this video and pretty sure we have more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVwErDFfRno starting at 1:37 of the video.



anyway, i am becoming to "speculate" that with the lack of knowing and limited resources about the ancient civilization of Philippines is the reason why "some" Fil-Ams are ashamed to be Filipinos and why a colonized mentality still prevails in the P.I. is mainly the reason of our "deleted" history of 400 years of rule.

have you ever wonder when you type Philippine heritage sites, ruins, .etc..etc ..spanish churches shows up?
have you ever wonder tinikling has Spanish music but the dance is purely southeast Asian. Don't we have something that is purely and distinctively Asian that does not have Spanish influence? Like Pangalay, Bantugan, Kandingan, Sagayan, Tahing Baila, and Lunsay. Although these are all muslim culture dances from the south, it is no denying its filipino cutlure with out the "filipino" brand.

We have a rich culture before the Spanish arrived, but where is our ancient ruin monuments? what happen?

It is because we are more simple living than the other civilizations around us,we would prefer living in huts rather than large houses.
kalulua
Check out the link below, I just came across it earlier today. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but what I have read so far has been interesting.

Philippines History, Culture, Civilization (Asia Pacific Universe)
taolander
maybe somebody with lots of time & money could map out the former coastlines of the philippines (these change, and so changes the settlement area). and maybe make some radar-mapping of the places where there could have been likely ports & settlement. that's where the great ruins should be, if our ancestors didn't only rely on making jewelry. It's all Lemuria, i.e underwater laugh.gif
trismegistos
Maybe some can be found in under 'centuries old' lahar in Sambalic areas. The penultimate Pinatubo eruption was I think before or about the same time was happening the invasions to Datu Gambang's Luzon Kingdom by the Bisayan Sultan Bolkeiah of Brunei, Sulu and Maguindanao also known as the singing captain, Nakhoda Ragam(ancestor of Lakandula and Soliman) who btw bragged that his rule extends from Malacca, Brunei, Sulu, Mindanao to Manila.

Or in the subterranean tunnels In Cavite on which urban legend tells was made by Japanese. But the extent and the huge undertakings to built it would require great time and manpower and technology the Japanese could have not possibly done. The tunnels are deep and wide and could have been Lemurian. he he. I remember some Psychic from America once remarked that the coming lowering of sea levels would uncover artifacts of Lemurian antiquities beneathe the shorelines of the Philippines. Lemurian structures tend to be subterranean as according to the revelations of the mystics. This is for the books of Ripley's Believe It or Not. he he

Some speculations, that old masonworks or stones used in the building of various Spanish churches including the walled city of Intramuros came from Prehispanic stone structures. Some says since Prehispanic Philippines abound with wood construction materials and being a tropical archipelago visited by ravaging typhoons and raging floods, it would be impractical to build stone monuments unlike in south of Mindanao, areas like in Java where they have the Borubodor stone complex built by the Sailendra branch of the srivijayas. Interestingly the orientation of the various stone structures in Java point to the direction of the Philippines. Likewise for the temple/palace of the ancient Hawaiins was oriented to the west while the Chinese Imperial palace is oriented south.

Prehispanic Philippine societies prior to Islamization were said to be Feminine or Matriarchal and so not interested in stone building or use of architectural 'Phallic' designs like Pointed sturctures like dolmens, obelisks, pyramidal structures, castles, towers, etc. What could have been found were not much unlike the Dayak long houses if our rulers fleeing from the Conquistas didn't have a propensity of razing to ashes their own villages and houses just like what the Raja Muda/Raja Soliman did. OT:Pahabol lang(he he). Raja Mura btw was said to be different from the valiant youth named Bambalito Tarik Soliman who died in the decisive Battle of Bangkusay. But lots of current history textbooks confused Raja Muda as the one who died in that battle and yet some muslim annals said that Raja Muda died in Brunei.
Suzuka00
QUOTE (trismegistos @ Sep 20 2009, 06:08 AM) *
Maybe some can be found in under 'centuries old' lahar in Sambalic areas. The penultimate Pinatubo eruption was I think before or about the same time was happening the invasions to Datu Gambang's Luzon Kingdom by the Bisayan Sultan Bolkeiah of Brunei, Sulu and Maguindanao also known as the singing captain, Nakhoda Ragam(ancestor of Lakandula and Soliman) who btw bragged that his rule extends from Malacca, Brunei, Sulu, Mindanao to Manila.

Or in the subterranean tunnels In Cavite on which urban legend tells was made by Japanese. But the extent and the huge undertakings to built it would require great time and manpower and technology the Japanese could have not possibly done. The tunnels are deep and wide and could have been Lemurian. he he. I remember some Psychic from America once remarked that the coming rising sea levels would uncover artifacts of Lemurian antiquities beneathe the shorelines of the Philippines. Lemurian structures tend to be subterranean as according to the revelations of the mystics. This is for the books of Ripley's Believe It or Not. he he

Some speculations, that old masonworks or stones used in the building of various Spanish churches including the walled city of Intramuros came from Prehispanic stone structures. Some says since Prehispanic Philippines abound with wood construction materials and being a tropical archipelago visited by ravaging typhoons and raging floods, it would be impractical to build stone monuments unlike in south of Mindanao, areas like in Java where they have the Borubodor stone complex built by the Sailendra branch of the srivijayas. Interestingly the orientation of the various stone structures in Java point to the direction of the Philippines. Likewise for the temple/palace of the ancient Hawaiins was oriented to the west while the Chinese Imperial palace is oriented south.

Prehispanic Philippine societies prior to Islamization were said to be Feminine or Matriarchal and so not interested in stone building or use of architectural 'Phallic' designs like Pointed sturctures like dolmens, obelisks, pyramidal structures, castles, towers, etc. What could have been found were not much unlike the Dayak long houses if our rulers fleeing from the Conquistas didn't have a propensity of razing to ashes their own villages and houses just like what the Raja Muda/Raja Soliman did. OT:Pahabol lang(he he). Raja Mura btw was said to be different from the valiant youth named Bambalito Tarik Soliman who died in the decisive Battle of Bangkusay. But lots of current history textbooks confused Raja Muda as the one who died in that battle and yet some muslim annals said that Raja Muda died in Brunei.

Of all the subtribes of Luçoes,visayans did not have enough land in luzon when they started but they managed to get land in mindanao and the whole visayas,The mindanao tribes are actually Luçoes as well.

Luçoes or Mainstream Filipinos are disliked by the Dayaks but liked by the Malays,their old friends..

Gaddangs and Kabalens share the same legend of people from the sea getting to rule them...
QUOTE
The epic of Biwag and Malana presents two of the Gaddang's greatest culture heroes, who after crossing the seas from Sumarta (probably Sumatra) with their mothers, landed in Faru (Aparri, Cagayan). In this tale, Biwag and Malana are sons of the earth god Bunag and the sea god Limat by Beling and Casta, daughters of the Queen of Sumatra.

http://litera1no4.tripod.com/gaddang_frame.html
The will of Pansonum is a similar legend

Perhaps this tells about the Bolkeiah invasion.
trismegistos
QUOTE (Suzuka00 @ Sep 20 2009, 07:14 AM) *
Of all the subtribes of Luçoes,visayans did not have enough land in luzon when they started but they managed to get land in mindanao and the whole visayas,The mindanao tribes are actually Luçoes as well.

Luçoes or Mainstream Filipinos are disliked by the Dayaks but liked by the Malays,their old friends..

Gaddangs and Kabalens share the same legend of people from the sea getting to rule them...

http://litera1no4.tripod.com/gaddang_frame.html
The will of Pansonum is a similar legend

Perhaps this tells about the Bolkeiah invasion.

Baka pati ang Alamat ng Sampung Datu ng Borneo.

Si Bolkeiah ay tinatawag lamang bilang Gat Lontoc sa mga panulat ni Henson at Nick Joaquin. Si Pansonum aka Fernando Malang Balagtas ay nanalantay sa kanyang mga ugat ang naghalong dugong Majapahit via Prince Balagtas son of Emperor Angka Vijaya/Wijaya with Dayang Sasaban ng Sapa at dugong (Sri)Bisaya mula kay Bolkeiah.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/4059/ascend.htm

Si Bolkeiah o Ragam sinabi din niya na nanggaling ang pagkamaharlika ng kanyang lipi sa Sumatra o Menangkabau.

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/7446/Ragam.htm
QUOTE
Ako'y Si Ragam

Salin sa Pilipino ni Clodualdo del Mundo



Ako si sultan Bulkeiah sa Borneo, na naghahari mula sa lungsod ng kapayapaan, Dar es Salam, sa dalampasigan ng Brunei. Sa Magindanaw at sa Sulu, na kinakikitaan ng unang liwanag ng walang katulad kong asawa, Emperatris Lela Men Chanei, ay tinatawag akong Raha Baginda. At ngayon, dito sa Maynila ay ako ang Sultan at Emperador

Makalawang ulit nang sinalakay ng aking hukbong-dagat ang Selurung, na tinatawag ninyong Lusung, at ngayon ay ako ang nagwagi at nakapanakop. Ang mapanghamig na si Datu Gambang, ang inyong yumaong puno, ay wala na, at ang isang prinsesa mula sa kanyang angkan ay aking pinakasalan upang maipagpatuloy ang dinastiya ng Pasig. Ang magiging anak nami'y siya ninyong magiging maginoo, at dahil sa inyong pamimitagan sa kamaharlikaan ng lipi, alamin ninyo na ako'y kalipi ng dakilang Iskander, ang Alejandro ng malayong Europa, na ang reyna'y anak ni Porus, ang lalong matapang na Indyo, kahinlog ni Sang Sapurba na nagtawid-dagat sa Java at ang mga kaanak ay namuno sa Johore, pook na pinangyarihan ng pagkuha sa maharlikang prinsesa upang maging kaisangpuso ng aking kanunu-nunuan, Tuan alak ber Tatar. Sa aking mga ugat ay nananalaytay ang dugong Arabe ni Hassim, ang tunay na propeta na maawain at mapagpaumayang Allah. Nasa-akin din ang dugonf Intsik, dahil sa isang prinsesa ni Kina Balu, at sa loob ng limang daang taon ay laging suot ng mga hari ng Brunei ang dilaw na kasuutang imperyal bilang pagkilala ng emperador ng Tsina. Malaon na kaming nag-iingat ng mobat at mga batingaw mula sa Malaka at Menangkabaw, mga palamuting pangmaharlika ng mga Indiyo at Islam.

Nguni't higit sa aking pagiging hari ay ipinagmamalaki ko ang sa aki'y karapat-dapat na katawagang Nakoda, sapagka't sa pag-uugit sa isang sasakyang-dagat ay wala nang dadaig pa sa akin, at ang aking ga paraw ay nakasagupa na sa mga unos na namayani sa lalong nag-aalimpuyong dagat, at ikinararangal kong masabing sa aking mga ugat ay dumadaloy ang dugo ng isang Bisaya. Tuwing dadalaw sa aking kaharian ang mga sugong Intsik at Arabe, ang pinakamahalagang palamuti nila'y ang mahabang chawat, na laging itinataas sa harapan ko ng apatnapu katao. Kapag iyo'y ibinigkis ko sa aking baywang upang humanda sa pakikitalad, ang pagkakabigkis ay maayos at ang paghahamok ay laging pinagtatagumpayan.

Mula sa Malaka hanggang Maynila ay kilalaang lahat ang pangalang Nakoda Ragam na kanilang pinanganganinuhan, sa kabila ng aking pagiging maharlika. Kaya, mga tauhan sa kailugan ng Lusung , huwag kayong magkulang sa inyong tungkulin sa aking magiging anak, ang inyong raha, at huwag ninyong kaliligtaang magbuwis ng ginto taun-taun sa Brunei bilang panahon ito ang Pulo ng Ginto.
salamat
filipinos lived in bamboo houses on stilts at the time...we didn't have huge monuments

but we do have the banaue rice terraces...its like a thousand years old
trismegistos
QUOTE (salamat @ Sep 20 2009, 07:43 AM) *
filipinos lived in bamboo houses on stilts at the time...we didn't have huge monuments

but we do have the banaue rice terraces...its like a thousand years old

http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/tech.htm#arch
QUOTE
Architecture

The houses of chiefs and other ruler's in the Philippines was said to be impressive:

"They are built upon trees and thick arigues, with many rooms and comforts. They are well constructed of timber and planks, and are strong and large. They are furnished and supplied with all that is necessary , and are much finer and more substantial than the others." (Blair and Roberson, vol.xvi, p.84)

As stated earlier, the early Filipinos even went as far as to decorate their houses with gold. However, the Spanish soon put a halt to this practice. As is the case in Borneo, the use of timber in architecture has left few remains of even the most grand Raja's palaces. Only people in some of the far northern islands like the Ivatans build stone typhoon proof houses because of their geographical situation along the typhoon belt. However, everywhere in the Philippines all houses, stone or wood, chief or commoner, used thatch for roofs.

The stone walls, canals, dams and reservoirs of the Igorots can also be considered as type of architecture, or at least stone engineering. The amount of stones used by the Igorots in their hydraulic engineering works is estimated to far exceed in bulk those used in building the Pyramids or the Great Wall of China. Many of these walls and canals are thousands of years old and have withstood countless typhoons and the effects of Sun, wind and time.

One of the last examples of native wooden bridges met a natural end some time ago, but a photo of it is still available in Masferre's works.
salamat
QUOTE (trismegistos @ Sep 20 2009, 07:59 AM) *


oh pretty cool....Rajas were muslim right???
Jc2
There are mosques in Mindanao and Sulu archipelago that are still standing today and they were built before the Spaniards came. Here is an example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheik_Karimal_Makdum_Mosque

QUOTE (salamat @ Sep 20 2009, 12:58 PM) *
oh pretty cool....Rajas were muslim right???


No they're not, they are Hindus but the title was probably adopted by Muslims in some areas
martin_nuke
The Philippines is volcanic so many ancient ruins are now probably burried. Look what Mayon did to Cagsawa Church and Pinatubo did to Pampanga.

Here is an artifact that proved that the Philippines was Indianized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Copperplate_Inscription
http://www.bibingka.com/dahon/lci/lci.htm
Fictionicon
oh my bad, i what i really meant was some kind of palace like in the video link i provided. On 1:37 it shows one that's buried that belongs to the sultan of sulu and was wondering, shouldn't we have more?

if you think about it, even native Americans have Mesa Vere & the pueblo icon_smile.gif
flipcombatmedic
The Rice Terraces, well they're not ruined yet.
Suzuka00
QUOTE (trismegistos @ Sep 20 2009, 08:34 AM) *
Baka pati ang Alamat ng Sampung Datu ng Borneo.

Si Bolkeiah ay tinatawag lamang bilang Haring Arao ng Borneo sa mga panulat ni Henson at Nick Joaquin. Si Pansonum aka Fernando Malang Balagtas ay nanalantay sa kanyang mga ugat ang naghalong dugong Majapahit via Prince Balagtas son of Emperor Angka Vijaya/Wijaya with Dayang Sasaban ng Sapa at dugong (Sri)Bisaya mula kay Bolkeiah.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/4059/ascend.htm

Si Bolkeiah o Ragam sinabi din niya na nanggaling ang pagkamaharlika ng kanyang lipi sa Sumatra o Menangkabau.

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/7446/Ragam.htm

Philippine Visayans,I think were once called as the Suluk people because the Tausug are called as Suluk,Sug is actually present in the terms Sugbuanon(Cebuano) and Tausug.

Bolkeiah and co are known as a cultural hero by many Luzonians for some reason but known in different names...


QUOTE (martin_nuke @ Sep 20 2009, 09:06 PM) *
The Philippines is volcanic so many ancient ruins are now probably burried. Look what Mayon did to Cagsawa Church and Pinatubo did to Pampanga.

Here is an artifact that proved that the Philippines was Indianized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Copperplate_Inscription
http://www.bibingka.com/dahon/lci/lci.htm

Confucianism and Arabic influence actually influenced our archipelago.

Tagalog/Kumintang as it is did not exist in 900 bc it is still a part of the proto-bikol/Visayan/Kumintang language.
AzNboii
QUOTE (kalulua @ Sep 19 2009, 11:34 PM) *
Check out the link below, I just came across it earlier today. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but what I have read so far has been interesting.

Philippines History, Culture, Civilization (Asia Pacific Universe)


o $hit. good stuff. thanks for linkin bruh
Fictionicon
QUOTE (trismegistos @ Sep 20 2009, 07:34 AM) *
Baka pati ang Alamat ng Sampung Datu ng Borneo.

Si Bolkeiah ay tinatawag lamang bilang Haring Arao ng Borneo sa mga panulat ni Henson at Nick Joaquin. Si Pansonum aka Fernando Malang Balagtas ay nanalantay sa kanyang mga ugat ang naghalong dugong Majapahit via Prince Balagtas son of Emperor Angka Vijaya/Wijaya with Dayang Sasaban ng Sapa at dugong (Sri)Bisaya mula kay Bolkeiah.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/4059/ascend.htm

Si Bolkeiah o Ragam sinabi din niya na nanggaling ang pagkamaharlika ng kanyang lipi sa Sumatra o Menangkabau.

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/7446/Ragam.htm



thanks for that link, i really learn alot from that. also check out this ruin

http://ifoundme.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/t...ain-by-request/ its definitely a ruin but not pre-spanish icon_smile.gif
trismegistos
QUOTE (martin_nuke @ Sep 20 2009, 08:06 PM) *
The Philippines is volcanic so many ancient ruins are now probably burried. Look what Mayon did to Cagsawa Church and Pinatubo did to Pampanga.

Here is an artifact that proved that the Philippines was Indianized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Copperplate_Inscription
http://www.bibingka.com/dahon/lci/lci.htm

Come to think of it, could the language used in the Laguna copperplate inscription could be the lingua franca of the royals, scholars or traders throughout maritime southeast asia back then when the Buddhist SriVijayas' might was at its peak?

QUOTE
Line 1:
swasti shaka warshatita 822 waisakha masa ding jyotisha. chaturthi krishnapaksha so-

Line 2:
mawara sana tatkala dayang angkatan lawan dengannya sanak barngaran si bukah

Line 3:
anakda dang hwan namwaran di bari waradana wi shuddhapat(t)ra ulih sang pamegat senapati di tundu-

Line 4:
n barja(di) dang hwan nayaka tuhan pailah jayadewa. di krama dang hwan namwaran dengan dang kaya-

Line 5:
stha shuddha nu di parlappas hutangda wale(da)nda kati 1 suwarna 8 di hadapan dang hwan nayaka tuhan pu-

Line 6:
liran ka sumuran. dang hwan nayaka tuhan pailah barjadi ganashakti. dang hwan nayaka tu-

Line 7:
han binwangan barjadi bishruta tathapi sadanda sanak kaparawis ulih sang pamegat de-

Line 8:
wata [ba]rjadi sang pamegat medang dari bhaktinda di parhulun sang pamegat. ya makanya sadanya anak

Line 9:
chuchu dang hwan namwaran shuddha ya kaparawis di hutangda dang hwan namwaran di sang pamegat dewata. ini gerang

Line 10:
syat syapanta ha pashchat ding ari kamudyan ada gerang urang barujara welung lappas hutangda dang hwa ...

QUOTE
Phrase 1:
Blessings, Shaka-related year 822, Waisakha month, by astronomy.

Phrase 2:
Fourth day of dark half of the moon, Monday, there at that time Lady Angkatan together with her relative named Bukah, children of the honorable Namwaran are given a wish, a gift of full clearance document by the chief, commander-in-chief at Tundun, who is the honorable minister lord Pailah, Jayadewa.

Phrase 3:
By order, the honorable Namwaran through the scribe is cleared and forgiven of his debt and his arrears of 1 kati and 8 suwarnas in front of the honorable minister lord Puliran, Ka Sumuran.

Phrase 4:
The honorable minister lord Pailah is source of authority.

Phrase 5:
The honorable minister lord Binwangan, who is famous, looked attentively at all his (Namwaran's) living relatives all gotten by chief Dewata, who is chief Medang, on account of his devotion as subject of the chief.

Phrase 6:
Yes, therefore all living descendants of the honorable Namwaran are cleared, yes, of all debts of the honorable Namwaran to the chief Dewata.

Phrase 7:
This, in case who will say in future day, sometime, there will perhaps be a man who says not yet cleared is debt of the honorable ...
trismegistos
QUOTE (salamat @ Sep 20 2009, 11:58 AM) *
oh pretty cool....Rajas were muslim right???

Rajas was originaly an Indio or Sanskrit term. For e.g the Tondo ruler in the Laguna Copperplate Inscription was addressed as the Sanskrit title "Senapati" meaning admiral or accdg to some as 'commander in chief'.
I think the ancient rulers at those times tend to tolerate religious beliefs. Many of their subjects for e.g. remained in their shamanistic belifs despite they might profess Hinduism, Buddhism or Islam religion. But the ruler of the latter religion seemed to be becoming a little aggressive in enforcing the state religion. The rulers were addressed in different titles or names or pseudonyms depending to the locality, culture or religion of their subjects. For e.g Sultan Bolkeiah was known as Raja Baguinda in Sulu and Maguindanao was also known as Nakoda Ragam, etc.
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/7446/Ragam.htm


QUOTE (Fictionicon @ Sep 21 2009, 03:53 PM) *
thanks for that link, i really learn alot from that. also check out this ruin

http://ifoundme.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/t...ain-by-request/ its definitely a ruin but not pre-spanish icon_smile.gif

No problem. Thanks for that link too.



QUOTE (martin_nuke @ Sep 20 2009, 08:06 PM) *
The Philippines is volcanic so many ancient ruins are now probably burried. Look what Mayon did to Cagsawa Church and Pinatubo did to Pampanga.

Here is an artifact that proved that the Philippines was Indianized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Copperplate_Inscription
http://www.bibingka.com/dahon/lci/lci.htm

Come to think of it, could the language used in the Laguna copperplate inscription could be the lingua franca of the royals, scholars or traders throughout maritime southeast asia back then when the Buddhist/Hindu SriVijayas alliance of rajanates was at its peak?

QUOTE
Line 1:
swasti shaka warshatita 822 waisakha masa ding jyotisha. chaturthi krishnapaksha so-

Line 2:
mawara sana tatkala dayang angkatan lawan dengannya sanak barngaran si bukah

Line 3:
anakda dang hwan namwaran di bari waradana wi shuddhapat(t)ra ulih sang pamegat senapati di tundu-

Line 4:
n barja(di) dang hwan nayaka tuhan pailah jayadewa. di krama dang hwan namwaran dengan dang kaya-

Line 5:
stha shuddha nu di parlappas hutangda wale(da)nda kati 1 suwarna 8 di hadapan dang hwan nayaka tuhan pu-

Line 6:
liran ka sumuran. dang hwan nayaka tuhan pailah barjadi ganashakti. dang hwan nayaka tu-

Line 7:
han binwangan barjadi bishruta tathapi sadanda sanak kaparawis ulih sang pamegat de-

Line 8:
wata [ba]rjadi sang pamegat medang dari bhaktinda di parhulun sang pamegat. ya makanya sadanya anak

Line 9:
chuchu dang hwan namwaran shuddha ya kaparawis di hutangda dang hwan namwaran di sang pamegat dewata. ini gerang

Line 10:
syat syapanta ha pashchat ding ari kamudyan ada gerang urang barujara welung lappas hutangda dang hwa ...

QUOTE
Phrase 1:
Blessings, Shaka-related year 822, Waisakha month, by astronomy.

Phrase 2:
Fourth day of dark half of the moon, Monday, there at that time Lady Angkatan together with her relative named Bukah, children of the honorable Namwaran are given a wish, a gift of full clearance document by the chief, commander-in-chief at Tundun, who is the honorable minister lord Pailah, Jayadewa.

Phrase 3:
By order, the honorable Namwaran through the scribe is cleared and forgiven of his debt and his arrears of 1 kati and 8 suwarnas in front of the honorable minister lord Puliran, Ka Sumuran.

Phrase 4:
The honorable minister lord Pailah is source of authority.

Phrase 5:
The honorable minister lord Binwangan, who is famous, looked attentively at all his (Namwaran's) living relatives all gotten by chief Dewata, who is chief Medang, on account of his devotion as subject of the chief.

Phrase 6:
Yes, therefore all living descendants of the honorable Namwaran are cleared, yes, of all debts of the honorable Namwaran to the chief Dewata.

Phrase 7:
This, in case who will say in future day, sometime, there will perhaps be a man who says not yet cleared is debt of the honorable ...


Suzuka00
QUOTE (trismegistos @ Sep 21 2009, 09:25 PM) *
Rajas was originaly an Indio or Sanskrit term. For e.g the Tondo ruler in the Laguna Copperplate Inscription was addressed as the Sanskrit title "Senapati" meaning admiral or accdg to some as 'commander in chief'.
I think the ancient rulers at those times tend to tolerate religious beliefs. Many of their subjects for e.g. remained in their shamanistic belifs despite they might profess Hinduism, Buddhism or Islam religion. But the ruler of the latter religion seemed to be becoming a little aggressive in enforcing the state religion. The rulers were addressed depending on the religions and cultures depending to the locality, culture or religion of their subjects. For e.g Sultan Bolkeiah was known as Raja Baguinda in Sulu and Maguindanao.
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/7446/Ragam.htm



No problem. Thanks for that link too.




Come to think of it, could the language used in the Laguna copperplate inscription could be the lingua franca of the royals, scholars or traders throughout maritime southeast asia back then when the Buddhist SriVijayas' might was at its peak?

Do Ifugaos know about Bolkeiah?
trismegistos
QUOTE (Suzuka00 @ Sep 22 2009, 11:31 AM) *
Do Ifugaos know about Bolkeiah?

A possibility. For what I read from Willian Henry Scott's books that the son of Lakandula(a descendant of Bolkeiah) by the name of Dionisio Capulong was friendly with the Igorots.
Suzuka00
QUOTE (trismegistos @ Sep 28 2009, 10:32 PM) *
A possibility. For what I read from Willian Henry Scott's books that the son of Lakandula(a descendant of Bolkeiah) by the name of Dionisio Capulong was friendly with the Igorots.

but Gaddangs and Kabalens surely remember Bolkeiah by other names.....
flipcombatmedic
The question is, do we have to have 'monuments' to show that we have rich culture before the Spanish? I mean 'civilization' are defined by Western historians as having complex cities, but 'civilization' and culture don't always necessarily need 'monuments'. the fact that we have proof of complex societies, high sophistication (showed by Butuan finds), writings (Laguna copperplate etc.)...proving culture with ruins is almost vain, to a form we need to compete with others civilization to look good. I mean if creating agriculture in the mountains with sophisticated irrigation by hand thousands of years before others can carve mountains, isn't a form of sophistication i don't know what is.
taolander
QUOTE (flipcombatmedic @ Sep 29 2009, 02:29 PM) *
The question is, do we have to have 'monuments' to show that we have rich culture before the Spanish? I mean 'civilization' are defined by Western historians as having complex cities, but 'civilization' and culture don't always necessarily need 'monuments'. the fact that we have proof of complex societies, high sophistication (showed by Butuan finds), writings (Laguna copperplate etc.)...proving culture with ruins is almost vain, to a form we need to compete with others civilization to look good. I mean if creating agriculture in the mountains with sophisticated irrigation by hand thousands of years before others can carve mountains, isn't a form of sophistication i don't know what is.


nah, we still need a Great Wall of Luzon or the Pyramids of Cebu embarassedlaugh.gif


Suzuka00
QUOTE (taolander @ Sep 29 2009, 02:32 PM) *
nah, we still need a Great Wall of Luzon or the Pyramids of Cebu embarassedlaugh.gif

They are not practical in our country i believe....
taolander
QUOTE (Suzuka00 @ Sep 30 2009, 02:00 AM) *
They are not practical in our country i believe....



of course not, but monuments are mostly devoid of any function. i would rather see a great Filipino dike / flood barrier system instead of some giant Colossus standing near Manila Bay. embarassedlaugh.gif
philfighter
I guess the greatest treasures of our ancient past resides in our epics, music and art.
OneOrientalAsia
You forgot that there's more chinese and malay culture in the philippines than spanish. Today spanish culture is very small.
Chinese have been in the Philippines before 1500 for generations before Spain came and forcefully colonized the Philippines.
Today only 3% of filipinos has any amount of spanish blood. About 10-20% Chinese. 1% arab, american, black. The rest is malaysian, indonesian blood.
The only reason why filipinos have spanish last names is not because of intermarriage, it's because filipinos were forced to choose a spanish last name out of a book issued by the spanish government to organize the people. There were very few intermarriages in fact hence 3% and continuing to diminish this day.
There are more filipinos of chinese and korean descent in the Philippines.
philfighter
^^ I wonder why you said...

"The rest have Malaysian and Indonesian blood". Doesn't seem right.
taolander
it doesn't have much to do with ruins anyway icon_wink.gif
flipcombatmedic
QUOTE (philfighter @ Oct 5 2009, 05:02 PM) *
^^ I wonder why you said...

"The rest have Malaysian and Indonesian blood". Doesn't seem right.

Filipino ALWAYS think that we're someone else, always external. that's the reason why we can't OWN ourselves is because we think we're from somewhere else. Just look at this very post (how the fu-k can you say we have to prove ourselves with ruins to give us culture), and look how they treat other Filipinos. Almost every single thread in here you can sense it.
taolander
like an alter ego of mine once said, one could just abandon the nation, run away, go to the oh so mighty political & cultural powers of the moment, forget about "Maharlika", Lapu Lapu, Rizal, Marcos ripping off the rest of the world, People Power, Erap etc etc embarassedlaugh.gif
filipinoy
QUOTE (OneOrientalAsia @ Oct 5 2009, 12:41 PM) *
You forgot that there's more chinese and malay culture in the philippines than spanish. Today spanish culture is very small.
Chinese have been in the Philippines before 1500 for generations before Spain came and forcefully colonized the Philippines.
Today only 3% of filipinos has any amount of spanish blood. About 10-20% Chinese. 1% arab, american, black. The rest is malaysian, indonesian blood.
The only reason why filipinos have spanish last names is not because of intermarriage, it's because filipinos were forced to choose a spanish last name out of a book issued by the spanish government to organize the people. There were very few intermarriages in fact hence 3% and continuing to diminish this day.
There are more filipinos of chinese and korean descent in the Philippines.


i read that stanford university research everyone based their facts about

sampled only 28 people from the Philippines from an unknown location

we dont know if these 28 selected individuals accurately represents 100 million or so filipinos
Suzuka00
QUOTE (philfighter @ Sep 30 2009, 03:22 AM) *
I guess the greatest treasures of our ancient past resides in our epics, music and art.

Our own race's("mainstream filipino's") pride is the Luzon Tsubo that were once exported to other asian countries...
UnstoppableProphecy
embarassedlaugh.gif
Pink Cream
QUOTE (taolander @ Sep 30 2009, 06:32 AM) *
nah, we still need a Great Wall of Luzon or the Pyramids of Cebu embarassedlaugh.gif

well we can still have them =)

we just need to build the great wall jail of luzon and the pyramid casino of cebu embarassedlaugh.gif
vvincent

I have been looking into this as well, and found that the Chocolate hills of Bohol may be ancient pyramids. There are about 7000 of them. No scientific evidence to prove it but there are none to disprove it neither. A German geologist made the theory of rare geological formation, but it is found nowhere else on earth, from my point of view I think they were man made, and there creation would been the most extensive of its time and our time.

QUOTE (Fictionicon @ Sep 20 2009, 12:46 AM) *
I would like to know if we even had any ancient ruins in the Philippines? I was doing some research on this topic, and to no avail i couldn't find any Pre-Spaniard ruins. The only thing that is celebrated are the Old Catholic churches that stand there. It just don't sense since we had old kingdoms in the Phil like: Kingdom of Namayan, Kingdom of Tondo,...etc. we even had sultans and datus. I even know as a fact that we had Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim before the colonizers arrived. We had our own writing system based on Indian Sanskrit, we also have these things called Surigao treasures that had Hindu styles on gold jewelry that is only unique to the P.I.


If we are capable of having this in our Pre-Spanish civilization, then it should mean that we should also be capable building kingdoms out of stone. What happen to it? there is a hint in this video and pretty sure we have more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVwErDFfRno starting at 1:37 of the video.



anyway, i am becoming to "speculate" that with the lack of knowing and limited resources about the ancient civilization of Philippines is the reason why "some" Fil-Ams are ashamed to be Filipinos and why a colonized mentality still prevails in the P.I. is mainly the reason of our "deleted" history of 400 years of rule.

have you ever wonder when you type Philippine heritage sites, ruins, .etc..etc ..spanish churches shows up?
have you ever wonder tinikling has Spanish music but the dance is purely southeast Asian. Don't we have something that is purely and distinctively Asian that does not have Spanish influence? Like Pangalay, Bantugan, Kandingan, Sagayan, Tahing Baila, and Lunsay. Although these are all muslim culture dances from the south, it is no denying its filipino cutlure with out the "filipino" brand.

We have a rich culture before the Spanish arrived, but where is our ancient ruin monuments? what happen?

Fictionicon
QUOTE (vvincent @ Feb 10 2010, 07:17 AM) *
I have been looking into this as well, and found that the Chocolate hills of Bohol may be ancient pyramids. There are about 7000 of them. No scientific evidence to prove it but there are none to disprove it neither. A German geologist made the theory of rare geological formation, but it is found nowhere else on earth, from my point of view I think they were man made, and there creation would been the most extensive of its time and our time.



that is interesting, it could be like that Chinese pyramid where they buried their first emperor. has there have been any archeology investigations on those chocolate mounds and what not? beerchug.gif


@flipcombatmedic

its not really about the ruins im trying to aim at, its about our civilization. there are two types of ancient filipinos specially when you try to research.

this one


and this one




its obvious that everyone here knows how the first one lived but i am interested in how the second one lived and their civilization. The second one is the missing gap in our history icon_smile.gif
kermit_criminal
QUOTE (taolander @ Sep 20 2009, 01:17 AM) *
maybe somebody with lots of time & money could map out the former coastlines of the philippines (these change, and so changes the settlement area). and maybe make some radar-mapping of the places where there could have been likely ports & settlement. that's where the great ruins should be, if our ancestors didn't only rely on making jewelry. It's all Lemuria, i.e underwater laugh.gif



something like this










slightly off topic







atlantis is in indonesia! VIVA SUNDALAND!
matigasngulo
^you have a date for the first map ? 10000 BC ?
trismegistos
QUOTE (matigasngulo @ Feb 13 2010, 02:58 AM) *
^you have a date for the first map ? 10000 BC ?

I have seen that image before. I think from a book published by a UP scientist explaining why the Philippines has one OR if not the GREATEST BIODIVERSITY IN THE PLANET.
From that website: http://www.fieldmuseum.org/Vanishing_Treasures/Origins_2.htm
and http://www.fieldmuseum.org/Vanishing_Treasures/Origins_1.htm

QUOTE
We now know that glaciers appeared at least 21 different times over the past several million years. This period of alternating glacial growth and melting is generally known as the Ice Age, or, more technically, as the Pleistocene Epoch...
When the ice sheets were at their peak in the most recent phase of glacial growth (15,000 to 20,000 years ago), sea level was 120 meters (400 feet) lower than it is today.

In Southeast Asia, where some seas are rather shallow—often less than 80 meters deep—the impact of this change in sea level was enormous. Borneo, Java, and Sumatra were merged with the Asian continent in a great peninsula, much of it a broad, fertile lowland plain...
The reasons for the odd patterns of distribution and diversity in the region now become clear. Land mammal faunas in northern Samar and Basilan are so similar because the animals were able to walk on dry land from one of these sites to the other. To go from northern Samar to the adjacent tip of Luzon, however, would have required that they cross a sea channel about ten kilometers wide. Mammals, frogs, and plants are able to spread across places with continuous habitat, even when thousands of kilometers are involved, but have great difficulty crossing even ten kilometers of sea water. The repercussions of this land distribution on BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY in Southeast Asia
During the recent Ice Age, sea level dropped to about 120 meters below the present level, exposing huge areas as dry land, but the Philippines remained isolated by deep channels.

The former riverbeds are still visible on the shallow sea-floor between Boneo and Java, Samatra, and the Malay Peninsula.
darren_simion
The ruins of the old castle of the Sultanate of Sulu but its hard for you to go there since its crawling with Islamic Extremists.
linnhi
we got this
I think It's good enough


other countries got their own but I don't think It looks like this
I wonder if modern structures or maybe roads can be built here

more pics





bay-yu Village
DramaInManila
Im suspecting there are underground maze complexes in Bataan and underneath Manila. AMIRIGHT?
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