I don't know if Indonesians are snobbish, but I know Singaporeans are tremendously snobbish but in a materialistic way, rather than cultural way. I suspect Indos are cultural snobs rather than material snobs.
What's your take?? Met any real Indo snobs??
Full Version: How snobbish are Indonesians?
Come to LA .... there's bunch of them >_<
Well I won't mention the name of my old boss at Kara Kelapa (ANDRE!!) and how he was too high class to slum it at our Indonesian Film Festival and I can't really believe he was in church during every single screening.....
Hey don't be so serious, just joking, come to the Indonesian Silver Screen opening night at Hoyts Melbourne Central this Saturday.
Hey don't be so serious, just joking, come to the Indonesian Silver Screen opening night at Hoyts Melbourne Central this Saturday.
QUOTE (Ralf @ Oct 1 2009, 07:45 AM) 
Well I won't mention the name of my old boss at Kara Kelapa (ANDRE!!) and how he was too high class to slum it at our Indonesian Film Festival and I can't really believe he was in church during every single screening.....
Hey don't be so serious, just joking, come to the Indonesian Silver Screen opening night at Hoyts Melbourne Central this Saturday.
Hey don't be so serious, just joking, come to the Indonesian Silver Screen opening night at Hoyts Melbourne Central this Saturday.
LOL... he goes to church? ohh geez!
QUOTE (XxRyoChanxX @ Oct 2 2009, 12:56 AM)
LOL... he goes to church? ohh geez!
Andre Untung is part of the Melbourne Indonesian Christian community and regularly goes to church...... I just wish he would regularly go to our screenings at the Capitol Theatre and support Indonesian Cinema. 
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Sep 30 2009, 08:46 AM)
I don't know if Indonesians are snobbish, but I know Singaporeans are tremendously snobbish but in a materialistic way, rather than cultural way. I suspect Indos are cultural snobs rather than material snobs.
What's your take?? Met any real Indo snobs??
What's your take?? Met any real Indo snobs??
Hmm.. dunno... most of Indonesian snob I've perceived is in materialistic way. The same as over there I think...
They like to brag or bul$hitting, try soo hard to impress people and love being admired by showing off about what expensive stuf they've bought, their car, where they go for vacation, this and that etc.
Cultural snob...? Is this that French thing...?
Or the Chinese ultranationalist cultural snob like some here in AF that believe everythings in Asia came from China...?
But wait... If you ask about cultural issue, I think some of Javanese "ningrat" or nobilities (especially those whom are rich) sometimes have this snobbish attitude like saying "I'm better than thou O' commoner Indonesians" in the matter of culture, manner, and refinement. They smile and hide it in polite manner, but sometimes secretly sneer at commoner's "coarse" attitudes. Also Javanese infatuation and obsession of status and refinement, sometimes irritate rest of Javanese villagers and marginal Javanese, Sundanese or Madurese in cultural way, because they like to comment: "Hey.., that language is 'rude'..." and so on. Their obsession for the concept of "halus" (refined) vs "kasar" (coarse/rude) is accute and sometimes ridiculous.
Hey... they must not always use their "pedestal" standard in this inter-cultural relations.
I suspect your question about this soo called "Indonesian cultural snob" is based on recent Indonesian-Malaysian rift and disputes about cultural issues (here we go again)...
I think Indonesian is humbled and never be a cultural snob in our relations towards older well-developed civilizations such as Indian culture, Chinese culture, even Japanese and Korean. Not to mention far older civilizations such as Egypt, Islamic civilization, and classical European Greece and Hellenistic culture, and European western civilization as a whole.
But yes.., in regional scope, there is a brewing sense (pumped by our national-pride and national identity building) that we have the oldest and the most refined culture of archipelagic Southeast Asia (with exceptions of ancient Cambodia, and to some degree; Thailand and Burma, that we consider as our equal in cultural way). While other younger or smaller states such as Malaysia, Singapore, and Brunei, to some degree Vietnam, and even Phillippines might be consider as.., no offense... "below" us in cultural matter... That doesn't means all Indonesian felt this way..., some Indonesian don't even care at all... but that is the perception I have. Malaysia and Singapore might be doing better and above us in economic and development issues, but somehow perceived as below us in cultural matter.
Other might criticize this "overgrown" cultural sentiments as some kind of escapism to avoid dealing with our own economic failure to provide jobs and welfare for Indonesian. Or might viewed this as an effort to "save" our dignity and pride being defeated in economic progress by our neighbours by rallying our cultural prowess. I'm really afraid if Indonesia decreasing into this inferiority complex behavior by b!tching around about cultural issue rather than work to build our nation.
hey majjy, u shd become a teacher or professor of indo culture!! or even better, be the cultural attache for the indo embassies!!!!!!! 
i met someone who actually gv me the impression that he's got noble lineage n despite our country (singapore) wealth n progress, we are still kasar in manners, attire and dance of refinement... hehehe...
he was a nice guy ultimately, but i came away feeling that he had a hidden snobbisme which was kinda not offensive, but rather culturally refined and self assured.. abit like those old men in China still wearing Mao suits... you know what i mean? the cultured educated types who know and understand their class and roles in their society, and would never seek to imitate another culture
i met someone who actually gv me the impression that he's got noble lineage n despite our country (singapore) wealth n progress, we are still kasar in manners, attire and dance of refinement... hehehe...
he was a nice guy ultimately, but i came away feeling that he had a hidden snobbisme which was kinda not offensive, but rather culturally refined and self assured.. abit like those old men in China still wearing Mao suits... you know what i mean? the cultured educated types who know and understand their class and roles in their society, and would never seek to imitate another culture
I agree with Majapahitans 120%!
Indonesians are mostly high on branded items, social status etc etc.. I know a few people who would not reveal to their friends and family at home that they work in the service industry abroad for extra money... their excuse was of course PRIDE.. or 'apa kata orang..?!'.
Indonesians are mostly high on branded items, social status etc etc.. I know a few people who would not reveal to their friends and family at home that they work in the service industry abroad for extra money... their excuse was of course PRIDE.. or 'apa kata orang..?!'.
^Lol its not exclusively to Indo peeps
Snob is what snob does
Snob is what snob does
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 3 2009, 02:02 AM)
hey majjy, u shd become a teacher or professor of indo culture!! or even better, be the cultural attache for the indo embassies!!!!!!!
Aha ha ha... I'm really flaterred... Thank you...
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 3 2009, 02:02 AM)
i met someone who actually gv me the impression that he's got noble lineage n despite our country (singapore) wealth n progress, we are still kasar in manners, attire and dance of refinement... hehehe...
Typical Javanese ningrat (nobles)..., softly braggin about their linneage and at the same time criticize other's unrefined "coarse-ness"... Don't worry most of them are harmless, but sometimes they're quite annoying...
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 3 2009, 02:02 AM)
he was a nice guy ultimately, but i came away feeling that he had a hidden snobbisme which was kinda not offensive, but rather culturally refined and self assured.. abit like those old men in China still wearing Mao suits... you know what i mean? the cultured educated types who know and understand their class and roles in their society, and would never seek to imitate another culture
Yeah I know..., cultured-educated people tends to be somewhat arrogant in such subtle way... I admire those people who knows their roots and took pride in it (with minus arrogance and belittling others). Like those Japanese whom still proud of their noble samurai lineage, and took pride in their traditions, costumes, and ceremony.
QUOTE (miubabyxx @ Oct 3 2009, 09:27 AM)
I agree with Majapahitans 120%!
Indonesians are mostly high on branded items, social status etc etc.. I know a few people who would not reveal to their friends and family at home that they work in the service industry abroad for extra money... their excuse was of course PRIDE.. or 'apa kata orang..?!'.
Indonesians are mostly high on branded items, social status etc etc.. I know a few people who would not reveal to their friends and family at home that they work in the service industry abroad for extra money... their excuse was of course PRIDE.. or 'apa kata orang..?!'.
Apa kata dunia...?
(Nagabonar's quotes)
Are u a ningrat, Majjy?? Anybody here a Ningrat???
It's a cute word!!
It's a cute word!!
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 6 2009, 10:36 AM)
Are u a ningrat, Majjy?? Anybody here a Ningrat???
Erh.., since you asking.., I don't wanna sounds braggin but yes...
My late grandfather from my father's side is came from a noble family of East Priangan region (Kuningan and Ciamis).
My late great-grandmother from my mother's side has to go out from Yogyakarta Kraton because her husband, my great grandfather (a lesser prince, sultan's sons from concubine) had passed away. Although she had been stay out of palace among commoners in the village, my mother said she never gave up her "ningrat" attittudes plus her elegant arrogance...
My family is not rich, now just living normally as any common Indonesian family, but yes we keep our grandfather's "trah" (linneage) name as our family name.
tangawizi: It is natural for Muslims to be snobbish (meaning they are better than others) because according to Islamic teachings, all non-Muslims are kafir. QED
Majapahitans, do you know how many aristocrats are still around ? Is there any online resource, like a peerage list or something ? 
QUOTE (elleX0 @ Oct 7 2009, 01:53 PM)
tangawizi: It is natural for Muslims to be snobbish (meaning they are better than others) because according to Islamic teachings, all non-Muslims are kafir. QED
Eh...?
I've read and learn muslim is taught to be humble... I think each religions promote themself as better than others... (that's the way they proselytize and sell their ideas)
In my case I'm not feeling snobbish towards other faiths... who are we ..., mere mortals, to judge others sprituality and faith..?!
QUOTE (taolander @ Oct 7 2009, 02:15 PM)
Majapahitans, do you know how many aristocrats are still around ? Is there any online resource, like a peerage list or something ?
Dunno..., quite a numbers perhaps. No online resource available, but usually you can sense aristocracy in their family name.
Aristocracy not only belongs to Javanese people..., Balinese, Sundanese, Madurese, Malay, Minangkabau, Batak, Aceh, Makassar, Bugis, each has their own aristocratic traditions.
QUOTE
Majapahitans:I've read and learn muslim is taught to be humble... I think each religions promote themself as better than others... (that's the way they proselytize and sell their ideas)
In my case I'm not feeling snobbish towards other faiths... who are we ..., mere mortals, to judge others sprituality and faith..?!
In my case I'm not feeling snobbish towards other faiths... who are we ..., mere mortals, to judge others sprituality and faith..?!
elle: But the Koran tells Muslims this:
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Allah has judged. He says, "Allah must have no rivals"
"Fight the infidels until there is no more Fitnah."
So Allah will not tolerate other gods, but Allah. I do not see that Allah has any tolerance. It is not humility, it is a matter of submission to the one and only Allah.
I think the case of Indonesian snobishness has more to do with perceived cultural status and materialistic cliques, than religious superiority.
QUOTE (elleX0 @ Oct 7 2009, 10:29 PM)
elle: But the Koran tells Muslims this:
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Allah has judged. He says, "Allah must have no rivals"
"Fight the infidels until there is no more Fitnah."
So Allah will not tolerate other gods, but Allah. I do not see that Allah has any tolerance. It is not humility, it is a matter of submission to the one and only Allah.
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Allah has judged. He says, "Allah must have no rivals"
"Fight the infidels until there is no more Fitnah."
So Allah will not tolerate other gods, but Allah. I do not see that Allah has any tolerance. It is not humility, it is a matter of submission to the one and only Allah.
I don't see any snobbishness from the above quotations.. what are u trying to do here Miss??? Stir up some anti-muslim sentiments unnecessarily??? Whassup with you???
QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Oct 7 2009, 08:22 PM)
Erh.., since you asking.., I don't wanna sounds braggin but yes...
My late grandfather from my father's side is came from a noble family of East Priangan region (Kuningan and Ciamis).
My late great-grandmother from my mother's side has to go out from Yogyakarta Kraton because her husband, my great grandfather (a lesser prince, sultan's sons from concubine) had passed away. Although she had been stay out of palace among commoners in the village, my mother said she never gave up her "ningrat" attittudes plus her elegant arrogance...
My family is not rich, now just living normally as any common Indonesian family, but yes we keep our grandfather's "trah" (linneage) name as our family name.
My late grandfather from my father's side is came from a noble family of East Priangan region (Kuningan and Ciamis).
My late great-grandmother from my mother's side has to go out from Yogyakarta Kraton because her husband, my great grandfather (a lesser prince, sultan's sons from concubine) had passed away. Although she had been stay out of palace among commoners in the village, my mother said she never gave up her "ningrat" attittudes plus her elegant arrogance...
My family is not rich, now just living normally as any common Indonesian family, but yes we keep our grandfather's "trah" (linneage) name as our family name.
hahaha... somehow i knew u must be some kinda NingRat, too!! Mjjy!!!
i have a galfren from Solo who shared the same history as you, her grandmother was asked to leave the palace when her husband died, as a concubine, it seems u have no right to live in the palace after the prince dies... sad...
m/s tan, please visit my profile. I am not a miss, and I am not prying to pass myself off as one. Are you an ostrich by any chance?
^ no, but you are obviously one judging from the way your anti-muslim speech reeks of prejudice!
elleX0 is the PERFECT example of a british snob lol
Not ALL Indonesians are muslim. Geez you already have one thread in this section, another one in the 'Serious Talk' section, I'm not sure why you are trying to hijack this thread with the muslim subject too! Looks like an obsession to me lol
yes JoeRagan very true, its not exclusive to indo peeps. But thats mostly the attitude I noticed from my indonesian friends who live abroad.
tangawizi i know you are but what am I? lol jk hun!
Not ALL Indonesians are muslim. Geez you already have one thread in this section, another one in the 'Serious Talk' section, I'm not sure why you are trying to hijack this thread with the muslim subject too! Looks like an obsession to me lol
yes JoeRagan very true, its not exclusive to indo peeps. But thats mostly the attitude I noticed from my indonesian friends who live abroad.
tangawizi i know you are but what am I? lol jk hun!
see, Mr elleXo?? i am not the only one who thinks u are white-@$$ brown noser.... hahahah
Sometimes, I think Indochat is full of cultured and refined ningrats like Majjy cause you folks are so polite to @$$.holes like Mr elleXo who come here n talk $hit about the country and folks~!!
tangawizi: You are showing your prejudices and intolerance. You are attacking the messenger and not the subject matter and so far I have not said One Word against your person. Typical of your type! Bully the other guy if his views are different from your own. You are a fraud! You are kosong, and it shows. So start calling me names and be insulting to shut me up? What kind of person are you? You obviously know nothing about culture or Islam and that is obvious. Hellfires await such 1/2 a Muslim.
Bukhari:V8B76N547 "The Prophet said, 'All of you will be questioned by Allah on the Day of Doom. There will be no interpreter between you and Allah. And the Hell Fire will confront you. So, whoever among you can, save yourself from the Fire.'"
Qur'an 21:98 "Verily you (disbelieving Infidels), and the gods that you worship besides Allah, are the fuel for Hell, faggots for the fire! Certainly you will enter it! Had their (idols) been (real) alihah (gods), they would have kept them out of Hell. Therein, sobbing will be your lot. Breathing with deep sighs, roaring. You will hear nothing but wailing and groaning."
I suggest you learn from me how to be a good Muslim. And if you are not one, then Hellfire awaits you. Now refute those verses. show us what you know about Islam, if you do not know then you have no right to stop me talking about Islam.
إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ ]
(Verily, He, only He, is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower) [26:217-220]
Bukhari:V8B76N547 "The Prophet said, 'All of you will be questioned by Allah on the Day of Doom. There will be no interpreter between you and Allah. And the Hell Fire will confront you. So, whoever among you can, save yourself from the Fire.'"
Qur'an 21:98 "Verily you (disbelieving Infidels), and the gods that you worship besides Allah, are the fuel for Hell, faggots for the fire! Certainly you will enter it! Had their (idols) been (real) alihah (gods), they would have kept them out of Hell. Therein, sobbing will be your lot. Breathing with deep sighs, roaring. You will hear nothing but wailing and groaning."
I suggest you learn from me how to be a good Muslim. And if you are not one, then Hellfire awaits you. Now refute those verses. show us what you know about Islam, if you do not know then you have no right to stop me talking about Islam.
إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ ]
(Verily, He, only He, is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower) [26:217-220]
إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَالِمُ غَيْبِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ إِنَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِذَاتِ الصُّدُورِ (35:38)
Baset - Hussari - Minshawi
Inna Allaha AAalimu ghaybi alssamawati waalardi innahu AAaleemun bithati alssudoori
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Allah:knowledge of the heavens and the earth] [Allah:knows the secrets of hearts] [Allah's attributes:Knower of the hidden and open] [Allah's attributes:Knows all things]
35:38 (Asad) Verily, God knows the hidden reality of the heavens and the earth: [and,] behold, He has full knowledge of what is in the hearts [of men].
Baset - Hussari - Minshawi
Inna Allaha AAalimu ghaybi alssamawati waalardi innahu AAaleemun bithati alssudoori
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Allah:knowledge of the heavens and the earth] [Allah:knows the secrets of hearts] [Allah's attributes:Knower of the hidden and open] [Allah's attributes:Knows all things]
35:38 (Asad) Verily, God knows the hidden reality of the heavens and the earth: [and,] behold, He has full knowledge of what is in the hearts [of men].
dude, i am not even muslim... it's just that u have only been on AF a short time, and your posts have consistently shown u have an open agenda to discredit muslims and their kind.. i have read your posts on Debate forum too and i don't think it's right for you to come on this thread which has no religious bent to start yapping about muslims and quoting verses from the Qu'ran to back up your claims abt the origin of their snobbisme
that's why u deserved my unreserved condemnation... for having crossed the line
although i am not muslim, i have lived in a muslim environment for all my life in Asia and now in Africa.. so dont u start wagging your tongue abt what other people know or don't know...
u should apologise for your behavior on this Chat, honestly, u are PISSING PEOPLE OFF HERE
that's why u deserved my unreserved condemnation... for having crossed the line
although i am not muslim, i have lived in a muslim environment for all my life in Asia and now in Africa.. so dont u start wagging your tongue abt what other people know or don't know...
u should apologise for your behavior on this Chat, honestly, u are PISSING PEOPLE OFF HERE
That is what I thought. You know nothing about cultures and you are so superficial and you want to control what people say. You do not even know the way Indonesia is drifting in its religious beliefs. Are we not allowed to speak about that? Show me the terms and conditions of posting here that there should be no discussion of religion or culture or whatever? Why do you feel that you have the right to tell others what they can talk about? Show me the terms of conditions of participation. You are being too bossy. I have abided by all the rules here. Why are you bullying your way here?
tangawizi: Here are the terms and conditions of this site: Tell me whether you or I have violated the rules! show me which one you have violated? Could you have been misguided? I do not believe I have violated any of these conditions, so until I have, lay-off.
QUOTE
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hmmmm... sometimes i wish han2 was back and warn fu-ktards like this one ^ for going off-topic
Tang, you are so ignorant, immature and illiterate that you have to use "expletives" to express yourself? Which University was responsible for producing such a biased person as you? Why don't you grow up? If you are ignorant of a topic, just stay away from it and let others discuss it openly. You are obviously a very little read and narrow individual. Go learn some useful topic and be an expert on it. Maybe living in the Maldives, you should learn how to get along with people as top priority!!!!!!!!!!
elleXo Cool it down. You seem to have your agenda categorizing people and lumping them in one group and then creating friction and divisivness. Yeah maybe I could lump all bule's, white people, British people etc alike, but I am smarter than that. So check yourself in the mirror and see how you are a bit snobbish in your own postings .
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QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 9 2009, 12:14 AM)
hmmmm... sometimes i wish han2 was back and warn fu-ktards like this one ^ for going off-topic
because here ppl who just quoting verses in every unrelated conversation topic, consider a loser
cant u imagine in real world conversation ppl being off topic all the time? wont have second thought to tell that dude to fu-k off
^ i know what u mean... people who quote verses at length just sound so damn "preachy" u know?
i mean mr ellexo is trying to open our eyes to the origins or causes of a perceived growing fundamentalism in SE Asia, including perceived snobbism in ordinary muslim folks.... yet he can't seem to speak without quoting vast verses from the Qu'ran as if the immutable words of Allah backs up his claims about how snobbism is ingrained in the Qu'ran... when in fact, it is found in every part of the world, in every culture and faith ...
and i am only trying to talk about Indonesian ningrats and their sweet tempered snobbishness here! And not launch a tirade about what makes fundamentalist snobs tick!!!!!!
people who quote verses at length just sound so damn "preachy" u know?i mean mr ellexo is trying to open our eyes to the origins or causes of a perceived growing fundamentalism in SE Asia, including perceived snobbism in ordinary muslim folks.... yet he can't seem to speak without quoting vast verses from the Qu'ran as if the immutable words of Allah backs up his claims about how snobbism is ingrained in the Qu'ran... when in fact, it is found in every part of the world, in every culture and faith ...
and i am only trying to talk about Indonesian ningrats and their sweet tempered snobbishness here! And not launch a tirade about what makes fundamentalist snobs tick!!!!!!
m/s Tang, you seem to want to lock horns with me(which I have tried to avoid) and you almost seem to be stalking my posts. So let me ask you this, since you are not a Muslim, how much about Islam do you understand? Is it an offence to quote passages from the Koran, or the Bible or any other source related to religion? It is Religion that formats a culture of a community, and that is what influences their laws, their cultural ways, and the beliefs. It is the essence of the community, even for atheists who believe in no god. So what have you against quoting from religious text?
For example, m/s Tang, did you know that the expression, "Islam means Peace" is a myth? No you did not know because you have not looked into it. So if someone tells me, "Islam means Peace" I know that is is dissimulation, but you are gullible and will regurgitate, "Islam means Peace." That m/s Tang is the difference between you and me. And why can't I be allowed to tell others about it? Why are you trying to censor such dissemination of information? Why in god's name? Why do you want everyone to be as ignorant as yourself? Fear? Fear of your neighbours? And do you know what fear is? Or who is promoting PC? Tell me! Or counter my statements and stop 'ad hominem.'
For example, m/s Tang, did you know that the expression, "Islam means Peace" is a myth? No you did not know because you have not looked into it. So if someone tells me, "Islam means Peace" I know that is is dissimulation, but you are gullible and will regurgitate, "Islam means Peace." That m/s Tang is the difference between you and me. And why can't I be allowed to tell others about it? Why are you trying to censor such dissemination of information? Why in god's name? Why do you want everyone to be as ignorant as yourself? Fear? Fear of your neighbours? And do you know what fear is? Or who is promoting PC? Tell me! Or counter my statements and stop 'ad hominem.'
he is probably priest or clerk of infamous scientology something,
he try to spread his own religion, Tanga ... :p
I wont be surprised he will come to :
Indonesian/asian game forum
Indonesian/asian kaskus forum
Indonesian/asian girl magazine or cosmetic forum,
or other wrong places. just to troll with [b] type
he try to spread his own religion, Tanga ... :p
I wont be surprised he will come to :
Indonesian/asian game forum
Indonesian/asian kaskus forum
Indonesian/asian girl magazine or cosmetic forum,
or other wrong places. just to troll with [b] type
elleX0 You don't seem to quit, in the Indian forum posts and here. What is your point/agenda as a non-Indoneisan white British guy? Are you married to an Indonesian female who saw a bule guy and wanted to escape that traditonal Indo Islamic life style. Some females are like that thinking every white Bule guy is gold. I saw some of this at the ambassador' house here at a Lebaran festivity in DC. Snobbish behavior leads to intolerance, prejudice, bigotry and racism. Every racial, ethnic, nationality and religion have those people and I see that here in multi-racial cultural America.
I don't agree with the behaviour of these hardliners. http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/10...-continues.html. They want to ban Japanese porn star Maria "Miyabi" Ozawa. Why the Jakartapost gives them press I don't know why as they are small group with intolerant Snobbish religious Islamic attitudes. If you want you can take your agenda to indonesianmatters.com where they debate this kind of stuff. I grew up here so I have a open outlook in this multi-racial, religous, cultural society
I don't agree with the behaviour of these hardliners. http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/10...-continues.html. They want to ban Japanese porn star Maria "Miyabi" Ozawa. Why the Jakartapost gives them press I don't know why as they are small group with intolerant Snobbish religious Islamic attitudes. If you want you can take your agenda to indonesianmatters.com where they debate this kind of stuff. I grew up here so I have a open outlook in this multi-racial, religous, cultural society
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