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rhmntk
Qory Sandioriva, a 18 y.o. student of French Literature in University of Indonesia, has been crowned as the new Putri Indonesia 2009 (Miss Indonesia Universe) last Friday (9th October 2009) and she will represent Indonesia in the miss Universe 2010.

However, She has been critized by many for her decision to take off her hijab/jilbab during the competition and she was representing Aceh province that has implemented strict shariah Law.

Do you think she would have had the chance to win if she had kept wearing the hijab?








XxRyoChanxX
I love those Kebaya they wear at those Miss Indonesia event...
HangPC2
Kerana Wang (Money) , Kejayaan (Fame) ?


I have no respect for this women (Qory Sandioriva)
Majapahitans
QUOTE (HangPC2 @ Oct 12 2009, 04:31 AM) *
Kerana Wang (Money) , Kejayaan (Fame) ?


I have no respect for this women (Qory Sandioriva)


^^^Save me your personal value and sensibilities....

Maybe she never really want to wear jilbab/tudung at the first place.
But since Aceh had adopted sharia laws including enforcing women to use jilbab/tudung. She have to wear it in Aceh.
I don't believe in "forcing" women to wear something that they don't want to wear.
There's tons of Aceh origin women here in Jakarta that starring in film and sinetrons and not wearing hijab/tudung. Cut Sarah, Cut Mini, Cut Keke, etc.
IMO that didn't make them less woman or less human than yo momma... icon_confused.gif
Grandmaster C
abg banget...
elleX0
Should this beauty have worn a veil for the contest?
QUOTE
Monday, 12 October 2009 11:36 UK

Aceh outrage over Miss Indonesia

By Karishma Vaswani
BBC News, Jakarta



More controversy is expected when Ms Sandioriva takes part in Miss Universe
Clerics in Indonesia's conservative Muslim province of Aceh say they are outraged that an Acehnese woman has won the title of Miss Indonesia.
Qori Sandioriva, 18, won the Miss Indonesia title on Friday, beating 37 other contestants for the crown.
The clerics say that by failing to wear a veil during the competition she has betrayed her Acehnese roots and brought shame to the province.
Aceh has special autonomy in Indonesia and has implemented partial Sharia law.
It is the only province in Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, that follows these laws.
Qori Sandioriva was born in Jakarta but has an Acehnese mother. Thanks to her mother's connection to the province she was able to enter the competition as Miss Aceh.
But Islamic clerics in Aceh say she has misrepresented her region.
They say she should have worn a veil during the competition, in keeping with the traditions of her mother's province.
Teung-ku Faisal Ali, the secretary general of Aceh's Ulama Association, told the BBC that anyone who represents Aceh must uphold the province's values.
He said Qori Sandioriva did not wear a veil during the competition and therefore did not represent the Acehnese people, who have strong Islamic faith and values.
When asked about not wearing a veil during the competition, Ms Sandiorova said she believed hair is beauty, and that she is proud of beauty.
The controversy is likely to return next year when she goes on to compete in the Miss Universe contest where she will have to don a swimsuit as part of the pageant.
Ralf
Hmm... the picture did not turn out, a grammatical error and we already have this topic in our forum.
Can we merge it ?
elleX0
No objections.
Ralf
QUOTE (Majapahitans @ Oct 12 2009, 10:42 PM) *
.... There's tons of Aceh origin women here in Jakarta that starring in film and sinetrons and not wearing hijab/tudung. Cut Sarah, Cut Mini, Cut Keke, etc.
Cut Mini is from Aceh ? I saw her in that comedy film you sent me. She is funny.
Hey we have also got Faranissa Hamzah from Aceh, and you can see her playing a badass bass in this Mulan version of the Guns'n'Roses song Sweet Child O'Mine.
No veil in sight.

Followers of fashion in Aceh may have noticed Aheda Zanetti's new range of joyful jilbab.
XxRyoChanxX
QUOTE (Grandmaster C @ Oct 12 2009, 09:07 AM) *
abg banget...


your random comment always makes me laugh
jrockerz
oh men ,why her? cant we get someone cuter? ....


..
.
and smarter of course
elleX0
Should Muslim Men and Women enter any beauty contests as it seems to go against the codes of Modesty in Islam? And Aceh seems to be more orthodox regarding Islam.
purple
Have you ever posted about anything that is unelated to Islam whatsover? icon_smile.gif
elleX0
Is that against the rules? Better update the rules then.
elleX0
Purple, you are a very senior member here, but I hope you will not mind my asking you your views about Islam.

Did you know that in most blog sites, whenever there is a discussion about Islam, that thread becomes electric? People are very interested in Islam and it is one of the hottest topics in the Western media. Why? Because Islam today is involved in every aspect of life all over the world. Yet it is one of the least understood doctrines of all. Non-Muslims know very little about Islam and therefore cannot understand the causes and effects. Muslims themselves keep on pronouncing conflicting views of Islam either out of ignorance themselves or they could be using taqiyya. So it is a very confusing and mysterious religion not truly understood by the world. Americans, Chinese, Europeans, Indians, Australians, all do not understand Islam because of "political Correctness." Yet it is in the limelight all the time such as The Bali Bombings, the Marriot Hotel, the Palestinian problems, the Chechnya problems, the Afghanistan and Pakistan problems, the NY Twin Towers catastrophe on 9/11, the London Bombings of 7/7, and today Geert Wilders victory on the Freedom of Speech.

"Page last updated at 12:12 GMT, Friday, 16 October 2009 13:12 UK

Dutch MP hails UK visit 'victory'


Mr Wilders is to visit the House of Lords
Controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders has hailed his arrival in the UK as a "victory for freedom of speech".

Yes, Islam is a HOT TOPIC and Geert Wilders wants to speak about it. He is giving a press conference now as I write. And there is an anti-Geert Wilders demonstration against him and he has had to change the venue of his press release because of the demonstration. See what I mean about "Freedom of Speech" even in LONDON people want to stifle the Freedom of Speech? The police are protecting Geert Wilders as he moves about. I hope I don't need such protection to post here. (ha, ha, ha)

So why are you concerned that this topic is being freely brought up here? You cannot bury the topic because it will not go away. By not facing the problem, it will not go away. Malaysia, Indonesia is sitting on top of a "cultural earth quake" that could explode at any time and the people will not be prepared, like the last tsunami. So discussing it, at least, informs people of misconceptions and dissimulation's and prepares them to resolve their problems with understanding. (I hope!)

Let me say this as an educator, "If you do not understand the problem, how the hell are you going to resolve the problem?" "If you cannot even see the problem, because of dissimulation's or "denial" then you are blind to the problem." But if you see a tsunami coming, or are warned about it, you run for the hills.

I am not here to cause dissension, but to spread information and knowledge and maybe be the early warning signals of that tsunami. I happen to know a lot about cultures (including Asian cultures), and religions (including Islam and Buddhism an Christianity), and human psychology and so I have the knowledge to speak on this subject (if you doubt, Google mbplee.) If you or anyone else wants to exchange views on these subjects, and a lot do, why restrict the topic? If they do not, the thread will die out. I am known in many sites. I am also known in "Search Engines" like Google search and I have never been banned for violating any forum Terms and Conditions of Service. For your information, Purple, check me out, my usual screen name is "elle" aka "mbplee" on google and you can read what I have said and where I have said it, or if you want to see my publications, try: http://knol.google.com/k/mbp-lee/-/1l23x9udotn1a/0#knols

I am no half baked "investigative researcher." I am constantly looking to learn from anyone who can teach me more about philosophies (or Islam) or to discuss it intelligently without rancour. What better place than where most people are Muslims?
londoh
QUOTE (elleX0 @ Oct 16 2009, 08:04 AM) *
Dutch MP hails UK visit 'victory'

Mr Wilders is to visit the House of Lords
Controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders has hailed his arrival in the UK as a "victory for freedom of speech".

Yes, Islam is a HOT TOPIC and Geert Wilders wants to speak about it. He is giving a press conference now as I write. And there is an anti-Geert Wilders demonstration against him and he has had to change the venue of his press release because of the demonstration. See what I mean about "Freedom of Speech" even in LONDON people want to stifle the Freedom of Speech? The police are protecting Geert Wilders as he moves about. I hope I don't need such protection to post here. (ha, ha, ha)

Let me say this as an educator, "If you do not understand the problem, how the hell are you going to resolve the problem?" "If you cannot even see the problem, because of dissimulation's or "denial" then you are blind to the problem." But if you see a tsunami coming, or are warned about it, you run for the hills.

Hi elleXO,
I have problems understanding what Geert Wilders has to do with Miss Indonesia 2009 but anyway one should be very cautious to bring up Mr. Wilders here. He is a man who has similar ideas like that German guy with the little moustache. Wilders is 200% anti-Islam and because of that he is very popular as people are dissatisfied with politics. I don’t think the Netherlands will be a better place without our imported Islam brothers and sisters. Many people are anti-Islam because it is foreign and are searching for a scapegoat for their uneasy feelings. As in many countries in the Netherlands there are problems with Islam because it is alien to our culture, especially with kerudung, burka a high criminality rates. Women can’t get a job because they wear a burka, but are receiving social security allowances. Also there are problems with youths from Northern Africa who are very criminal. No reason to say Islam is dangerous and what is worser people who follow Islam are dangerous and should return to their country of origin. Mr. Wilders is sawing hatred, people should be very aware of these demagogic leaders.. Fanatic anti Islam is actually the same as fanatic anti Western.



elleX0
londoh, (1) In case you missed the point, Geert Wilders case was brought up here to show that even in London we have a problem of deciding, "Who gets the Freedom of Speech." Because our ex-Home Office Minister decided he would cause unrest, his freedom to travel and use "Free Speech" was stifled. It took a ruling from "The Court of Human Rights" to rule that his, Geert Wilders, "Human Rights" were violated. That was my point!

(2) Whether you or anyone else agrees or disagrees with Geert Wilders' views about Islam is another issue all together. There will be many like you Londoh, who would disagree with Geert Wilders, but there will also be many who will support his cause. I am not here, to discuss his views as that is something he will do in the coming weeks.

(3) Regarding the understanding of the theology or ideology of Islam, it is discussed by millions of people all over the world. Islam needs to be understood. It is a very complex issue but it touches every aspect of life all over the world. To avoid discussing it is like being an ostrich. Avoiding it will not resolve the problem. People are dying in Palestine, Afghanistan, Pakistan today because Islam is misunderstood. To ban speaking about Islam comes back to, "The Freedom of Speech" again. To gloss over the problem, as you are doing, is denial.
londoh
QUOTE (elleX0 @ Oct 17 2009, 03:42 AM) *
londoh, (1) In case you missed the point, Geert Wilders case was brought up here to show that even in London we have a problem of deciding, "Who gets the Freedom of Speech." Because our ex-Home Office Minister decided he would cause unrest, his freedom to travel and use "Free Speech" was stifled. It took a ruling from "The Court of Human Rights" to rule that his, Geert Wilders, "Human Rights" were violated. That was my point!

Maaf, I just wondered if Geert and Miss Indonesia 2009 had a secret relationship. Mr. Wilders went to London 8 months ago as a provocation, this is a way he gets publicity. You should not take him too serious. At his arrival there was a demonstration of only 30 persons, and he held a press conference, and all the media were there of course, as it was about Islam, that was all. Anyway you seem to be quite concerned about Islam as you mention this religion in nearly every of your postings. You have someting of a person who thinks a lot and likes to look at the dark side of life. Up to you, I’d rather be on the bright side.

elleX0
londoh, I look at the root cause. You look at the superficial. That is the difference between us. I look for the basic psychological reasons for any reactions, you cannot see it because you either don't want to see it or you do not know. To each his own. You have your views as a Dutchman doing business in Indonesia (so you have an interest in Indonesia,) Geert Wilders' views are as a Dutchman who views the problems in Europe, not Indonesia. Geert Wilders is interested in how Islam will affect Europe not Indonesia. There is the difference. I am sure you see that not all of us have the same focus on life.

You are looking at the romantic history of Indonesia. I am looking at the future for Indonesia vis-a-vis south east Asia/Asia. You are concentrating on Indonesia, I am looking at Asia that is East of Suez involving the future of Malaysia, Australia, Thailand, Japan, China America west coast. So we do not have the same perspective or the same objectives. I do not criticise your posts or what you write about and I expect you to respect mine in the same way unless you can correct my analysis with facts.

londoh
QUOTE (elleX0 @ Oct 17 2009, 05:52 AM) *
londoh, I look at the root cause. You look at the superficial. That is the difference between us.

I’m sorry ElleXO, you came up with Wilders and that astonished me. Actually his parents lived in Sukabumi, West Java, so there is a link with Indonesia. What I said has also nothing to do with respect or not, I read your postings with great interest. But in my eyes you are a little obsessed with Islam, something that is quite common in Western Europe nowadays. I have been living for 19 years among the followers of this true religion. I already said a few things about that. However in my opinion a religion is not something to discuss as there will be no outcome in a discussion like that, it is about belief and little facts. Like Chelsea and ManU supporters discussing who’s club is the best.

Btw. I don’t see much romantic aspects in Indonesian history, not for the common man though. War and struggle until this very day
ataturk
I happen to know Qory personally, and she never wore the veil, so it is incorrect to say that she has "unveiled" herself for this pageant.

On Acehnese tradition, Mr Tengku Faisal Aly is wrong to say unveiled Acehnese women are disgrace. Traditionally, Acehnese women do not wear the veil, instead they have this imposing hairdo like so:



Even famous Acehnese heroine Cut Nyak Dhien did not wear the veil, will Tengku Faisal Aly said Cut Nyak Dhien is a disgrace to Aceh?



The veil is a recent foreign import from Middle East, Acehnese start wearing it in small numbers in 1980s and became mandatory after 2003 introduction of sharia in the province. Prior to 1980s, the veil is a rare thing in Aceh. It was even rarer to find veiled women in other parts of Indonesia back then.

elleX0
ataturk, you are right. As far as the veil is concerned, there is nothing in the Koran that imposes the veil on women. It is more of a tribal custom than a Koranic requirement. However, there are verses in the Koran about modesty, and again that is a matter for interpretation.
elleX0
londoh, "But in my eyes you are a little obsessed with Islam, something that is quite common in Western Europe nowadays. I have been living for 19 years among the followers of this true religion. I already said a few things about that. However in my opinion a religion is not something to discuss as there will be no outcome in a discussion like that, it is about belief and little facts."

I am no more obsessed with Islam than you are with Indonesian history. I do study Islamic history and Islamic literature and not from hearsay. When I refer to your vision of Indonesian in romantic aspects, I mean romantic in terms of portraying only the romantic aspects of that history (one sided), because Indonesian history is wrapped in folk-lore and mysticism and the shroud of different religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. And to air-brush this aspect out means to see a history through rose tinted glasses. I am attempting to analyse Indonesian culture through her culture, religions, and development. Religion is a major part in the development of Indonesian culture. To whitewash the role of religion in the study of any people's culture or history is disingenuous and is excluding 3/4 of the truth. Sorry to be so frank, but you are Dutch and so you should understand my stance.

You are also making the assumption that as you have live there for 19 years that you have the monopoly of knowing peoples of S.E.Asia. What gives you the right to assume that am ignorant of the lives of Asians, including South East Asia? You, my son, are presumptuous and patronising. Read more and you might learn a thing or two form my postings.

galvatron
QUOTE
Miss Indonesia never wore a headscarf in her life eek.gif

http://www.divaasia.com/article/5616

The criticism she has received for “misrepresenting” her home province of Aceh has failed to discourage newly crowned Putri Indonesia 2009 Qory Sandioriva.

Qory, the first woman representing the strongly Islamic region of Aceh to win the title, made no apology for publicly rejecting the jilbab or Muslim headscarf during the pageant’s final night in Jakarta, playing it down as a “misunderstanding”.

“Perhaps it was a mistake to make such a statement, but honestly I have never worn a jilbab all my life,” the 18-year-old French literature student from the University of Indonesia told Waspada Online during a visit to Medan, North Sumatra, a few days after her win.

Her responses to the judges’ questions have upset many people, particularly religious leaders in her home province.

In the contest’s final stage, she was asked why she was not wearing a headscarf like previous contestants from Aceh.

Responding to the question, she argued that hair represented beauty, and thus should not be covered. Moreover, she said the Aceh governor had personally approved of her appearing without a headscarf.

Aceh is the country’s only province governed under Islamic sharia law, and in September the local legislature endorsed a set of strict Islamic codes, or qanun, including a controversial ruling allowing the caning and stoning to death of adulterers.

Qory insisted she was inspired by Acehnese heroine Cut Nyak Dien, a prominent figure in the resistance movement against Dutch colonial rule back in the 19th century. Aceh was the last territory in the archipelago to fall under Dutch rule.

“[Cut Nyak Dien] never wore a jilbab, but she defended Aceh and Islamic values,” icon_wink.gif said Qory, a former Jakarta champion of pencak silat, Indonesia’s traditional martial art. icon_smile.gif

She also played down arguments that not wearing a headscarf made her less Islamic.

“I know Islam is a tolerant religion,” Qory said.

During the final night of the pageant, she was posed with another tricky question: Was the caning and stoning law consistent with human rights and national laws?

This time around, Qory managed to skirt another minefield.

“The qanun should be accepted if that is the wish of the people,” she said.

She won the hearts of the judges with her answers, but more things lay in wait for her off the stage.

“Sandioriva challenged the qanun, therefore she could not have carried the title of Miss Aceh,” Tengku Faisal Aly, secretary of the religious group Aceh Dayah Ulema (HUDA), said as quoted by Waspada Online.

“We were very disappointed with her appearance.” thumbsdown.gif

More controversy stemmed from the fact that Qory was neither born in Aceh nor a resident of the province. She lives in Bekasi, just outside Jakarta.

Qory, however, claimed that her mother came from the Gayo region in Aceh. Besides, she’s not without any supporters from Aceh.

In backing up Qory, anthropologist Teuku Kemal Fasya from Malikus Shalih University in Lhokseumawe told Waspada that the clerics had overreacted.

“This is a beauty pageant,” he said. “She didn’t make any statement against the qanun.”

On her decision not to wear a headscarf, Teuku said it was a personal choice and did not matter whether this represented Aceh women or not. biggthumpup.gif

The controversy might not matter much anymore since Qory is now Putri Indonesia, a title that perhaps befits her birthday on Aug. 17, the same as Indonesia’s Independence Day.

“I know I’ve set off a controversy, but I’m really proud to be the first Acehnese contestant to win Putri Indonesia,” she said
.
Ralf
Can we merge this topic with our already existing topic about the same subject ?
Better than getting another warning for making duplicate topics, no worries I'm not going to be a Nazi mod, I talk to people first.


OK merged.
Sexysomchai
These old fashion muslim puppets are lame to the max ...... what matters most in Islam is your spiritual conduct, the purity of your heart, not a piece of cloth on your head. You are born in this world with nothing and leave this world with nothing too.

Is god going to penalise u for not having a piece of cloth over your head.
materialgurl
actually no one out there talks about this matter more than you all do on internet. meaning: we're not fussing about it.
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