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tutorboy
I'm just speculating. If it was true, then would it has something to do with the recession gene of the Caucasian features that some Hmong inherited? As recorded by the Chinese, some Miao were sent to Gansu to fight against the Western tribal people.

QUOTE
After the loss of war, Chiyou was decapitated by the Yellow Overlord. The succeeding southerners recorded in Chinese history would be called San-miao. At the times of Lords Yao-Shun-Yu, the 'Sanmiao' (Three Miao) people had been living in the middle Yangtze River, taking Lake Dongting as their very homeland. The middle Yangtze River would remain marshlands and lakes till the time of the Chu State of the Warring States period (403-221 BC). The State of Chu, 1500 years after Xia Dynasty was first established, would still belong to an alien ethnical group, and they were the first group of people to reject the overlordship of the Zhou Dynasty by declaring themselves as a king of equal footing. Historic annals repeatedly claimed SanMiao people were mostly exiled to San-Wei-Shan Mountain in Gansu Province's Dunhuang to counter the Xirong or Western Rong people. Today's Miao-zu minority, numbering 5 million per 1982 census, are said to be descendants of ancient Lord Chiyou who headed the Nine Li[2] tribes, i.e., ancestors of SanMiao people. Miao-zu's epic talked about "westward migration", which pointed to the fact that they had probably dwelled more to the center and east of China in ancient times. Mainly in today's Guangdong and Hunan provinces would exist Zhuang-zu and Yao-zu minorities, and mainly in today's Guizhou and Guangxi provinces would exist Miao-zu, Zhuang-zu, and Yao-zu minorities. Miao-zu, Zhuang-zu, and Yao-zu, living more closer to central China, should have closer affiliations with ancient San-Miao people, with the same character 'miao' embedded.

However, should we buy Luu Simian's research, then San-miao people would have shared the same origin as ancient Chinese. In accordance with Luu Simian dissertation, San-Miao, with 'miao' meaning descendants, could point to three ancient clans and tribes of Dihong-shi, Jinyun-shi, Shaohao-shi as their ancestors. After San-miao, history recorded extensively the people that would come to be known as 'Man[2]' or 'Nan [southern] Man2 [barbarian]'. Scholar Luo Xianglin stated that five tribal groups of Xia, Qiang, Di[1], Yi, and Man[2] shared the same origin.

source: http://www.republicanchina.org/Vietnamese.html


From a Hmong, who went on a fieldwork to study in China.
QUOTE
Hmong people are telling the stories from both our ancient European maternal lineage and ancient Asian paternal lineage. In pre-Chinese text the earliest people in western China did had the blending of San-Miao people. Lord Shun previous relocated the Hmong to western China to guard against the western nomads (2357-2258 BC) . This is a possibility these western nomads were a branch of nomadic Indo-European people who intermixed with the San Miao people ( 2258 BC-)


Maybe one of our maternal lineages would be European-like.





note: I know how ALBINO kids look like. These Hmong children as well as the adult are healthy just like their Mongoloid-counterparts. I've seen Hmong who have this features and continue to notice the growing features.

GANSU PROVINCE
lilasiankid
Should do some testing and comparison.
Manleow
so some of your ancient ancestry breaded with some white ppl? nothing to be proud of. They did fine white european settlements in Western China why in ancient times, it was on the discovery channel.

The Lao ppl descend from different ancient asian tribes.

as for the recessive gene, i think someone showed pictures of Aboriginal ppl from Australia with the same recessive gene that made some ppl have blonde hair. I wonder if they mixed with some white ppl in ancient times? i dought it

Genetics DNA testing shows that East Asian and Western Europeans descend from the same family tree or group of ppl who left africa. We seperated from our Europeans counterparts around 50,000 years ago in upper Central Asia, one group went west and became the Europeans and the other group went east and became the East Asians.

an earlier group traveled along the indian ocean and became the indians and SEA asian indiginous ppl.
samnang
Blonde hair isn't limited to Europeans or people with European ancestry. Australian aboriginals have blondes too.

Blonde hair results from a gene mutation that shut off hair melanin production. Such a mutation can pop up anywhere.


tutorboy
QUOTE (Manleow @ Oct 29 2009, 07:57 PM) *
so some of your ancient ancestry breaded with some white ppl? nothing to be proud of. They did fine white european settlements in Western China why in ancient times, it was on the discovery channel.


Who said I was proud of it? I'm just trying to answer the questions to why Hmong have the caucasian features.
Now that I got the possible answer, it may be correct to say that some Hmong may have carried the European genes from the Ancient Xirong of western China.

KojTusMeHavnim
Why are we even talking about being proud here or not, people?
Does it matter? If it does then there's something racist going on here.
tutorboy
QUOTE (KojTusMeHavnim @ Oct 29 2009, 09:11 PM) *
Why are we even talking about being proud here or not, people?
Does it matter? If it does then there's something racist going on here.


I don't know why Manleaw brought it up.
Of course, we are proud of who we are. Doesn't anyone?

Anyways, still don't know how this thread has anything to do with Samnang posting aboriginese people.
Yes Samnang, I do know that some pacific islanders/aboriginese have blond hair and blue eyes.

In the case of Hmong, it's different if you know our history and migration route.
hmooblis
check out my gene thread in the hmong serious talk section. should answer your questions.
tutorboy
Other theories are not important to me.

This is a new theory. If the San Miao, as indicated in Chinese history that some of them were sent to Gansu province to fight against the Rong people, then probably this might has something to do with the traits.

This might as well be a possible theory.

It's possible that some Mongol of Yuan that were sent to southern China might have blend in with the Hmong. It's possible that the Hui of western China, whom some are found in Yunnan today might have blend in with the Hmong. Possible guess.
lilasiankid
Possible..So many undocumented things from those times.
hmooblis
they're not theories, they're stated facts using genes. yours are.
Manleow
the point being, maybe some Hmong banged some white folks back in the day, and perhaps banged some mongols, some Manchu's, some han, some tibetians, etc, etc, etc.....

Its the same things as today, some Hmong are married to some white ppl, black ppl, Mexican ppl, etc, etc, etc.... 100 years from now are Hmong going to say they have some African or Mexican ancestories???

Hmong is Hmong, just because a few banged another group of ppl a thousand years ago doesnt make Hmong anything other then Hmong, with a few that banged some white folks. The few that banged some white ppl a thousand years ago doesnt make Hmong ppl as a whole anything other then being Hmong.

its like your saying when Marco Polo went into China and some of his men went and banged a few Chinese chicks, and those chinese whores had baby's with those europeans that came into china, so those descendants of those barstard kids have recessive European genese since the era of Marco Polo, who may infact number in the 10's of thousands today. So should Chinese then say, Chinese have recessive European genese because 1000 years ago a few chinese whores got banged and had babies with European traders?
BurdenOfAges
QUOTE (Manleow @ Oct 30 2009, 05:05 PM) *
the point being, maybe some Hmong banged some white folks back in the day, and perhaps banged some mongols, some Manchu's, some han, some tibetians, etc, etc, etc.....

Its the same things as today, some Hmong are married to some white ppl, black ppl, Mexican ppl, etc, etc, etc.... 100 years from now are Hmong going to say they have some African or Mexican ancestories???

Hmong is Hmong, just because a few banged another group of ppl a thousand years ago doesnt make Hmong anything other then Hmong, with a few that banged some white folks. The few that banged some white ppl a thousand years ago doesnt make Hmong ppl as a whole anything other then being Hmong.

its like your saying when Marco Polo went into China and some of his men went and banged a few Chinese chicks, and those chinese whores had baby's with those europeans that came into china, so those descendants of those barstard kids have recessive European genese since the era of Marco Polo, who may infact number in the 10's of thousands today. So should Chinese then say, Chinese have recessive European genese because 1000 years ago a few chinese whores got banged and had babies with European traders?


You just discovered the problem with treating people as groups, as opposed to individuals. The reality is that every person in this world has an unique identity, and this identity can be traced to the dawn of mankind, or even to the first single-cell organism, for that matter. Treating this heritage in terms of groups, while convenient, does not speak to its nuance. The essence of individualism is to respect and understand each person for their own sake, as opposed to from the perspective of ethnic groups or races. Only this model can accommodate the long history of genetic and cultural mixing that occurred.
Manleow
QUOTE (BurdenOfAges @ Oct 30 2009, 05:42 PM) *
You just discovered the problem with treating people as groups, as opposed to individuals. The reality is that every person in this world has an unique identity, and this identity can be traced to the dawn of mankind, or even to the first single-cell organism, for that matter. Treating this heritage in terms of groups, while convenient, does not speak to its nuance. The essence of individualism is to respect and understand each person for their own sake, as opposed to from the perspective of ethnic groups or races. Only this model can accommodate the long history of genetic and cultural mixing that occurred.

embarassedlaugh.gif No dummy we are talking about the Hmong ppl, their lineage and heritage, not Bob, Steve and their pet dog snoopy. Hope you understand? embarassedlaugh.gif

You seem to be clueless, my response is that so what if a handfull of hmong slept with a handful of white ppl in the past, their kids represent them and not the Hmong as a whole. It would be the same thing as if a Hmong girl married an African American, had a bunch of kids and those offspring ended up from generation to generation married other Hmong ppl instead of Africans, 2 hundred years from now their offspring still carry African genes. Those handful of kids with African genes dont represent Hmong ppl as a whole, they are individual, so would Hmong look at those recessive African genes the same way as they look upon the white genes? from generation to generation your going to have some Hmong kids with Nappy hair, being so no one is going to say Africans are apart of Hmong history and culture would they? embarassedlaugh.gif africans are africans, hmong are hmong, dont mix them up. Europeans are Europeans.
tutorboy
Hmong are diverse.

We have multiple maternal DNA.

This is why different Hmong groups in China have different styles of clothes.

Our mothers preserve our clothes and cultural identities.

Our fathers preserve our traditions, religious customs/rituals and history.
BurdenOfAges
QUOTE (Manleow @ Oct 30 2009, 11:09 PM) *
embarassedlaugh.gif No dummy we are talking about the Hmong ppl, their lineage and heritage, not Bob, Steve and their pet dog snoopy. Hope you understand? embarassedlaugh.gif

You seem to be clueless, my response is that so what if a handfull of hmong slept with a handful of white ppl in the past, their kids represent them and not the Hmong as a whole. It would be the same thing as if a Hmong girl married an African American, had a bunch of kids and those offspring ended up from generation to generation married other Hmong ppl instead of Africans, 2 hundred years from now their offspring still carry African genes. Those handful of kids with African genes dont represent Hmong ppl as a whole, they are individual, so would Hmong look at those recessive African genes the same way as they look upon the white genes? from generation to generation your going to have some Hmong kids with Nappy hair, being so no one is going to say Africans are apart of Hmong history and culture would they? embarassedlaugh.gif africans are africans, hmong are hmong, dont mix them up. Europeans are Europeans.


I don't think you understood what I was saying. I was cautioning against generalizations about groups. Even if a majority of group A is X, that does not make all of group A X. In that case, you have to ask yourself whether saying "group A is X" makes sense simply because you are talking about the majority. In my opinion, group generalization (stereotyping) has many harmful consequences in reality.
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