This article was published back from 1997. I was wondering if anybody could find more recent sources and perhaps disprove/discredit or support this publication by Hmong scholar Yuepheng Xiong.

Remember, we cannot prove a theory; we could only disprove it over and over. Are there any recent archeological sources or written sources that can disprove this article's claim of Miao contact with Sinotibetan ancestors? If so, please link them and articulate anything to support or discredit the Hmong origin theory with Chiyou.

The publications from Dr. Gary Yia Lee doesn't seek to disprove these findings; his conclusion basically ruled out all other theories of Hmong origin and narrow it down to China.


Please keep this thread clean. I encourage and allow all inputs from all nationality/ethnicity/cultures.



The link to Yuepheng Xiong's article is here: http://www.hmongnet.org/hmong-au/chmong.htm

Man, it's kinda hard to find something, at least in English, that argues against these theories.

One of my close uncles was one of the 5 students on that trip. Very active guy at promoting Hmong culture and working around the community. Xeng, have you ever stopped by HMONGABC store to have a chat with Yupheng Xiong?

geez 1997 was 12 years ago!

Yes 12 years is a long time that is why i want members to post up more recent findings to disprove or support these theories.



No, i have not been to the HMONGABC.

You should drop by and have a chat. It's a nice little place. I know Jake Cutter would like it.

Not quite. Many if not most Western scholars regard Huangdi, Yandi, and Chiyou as "mythical" figures. If true, then most of the article is disproved as it bases early Hmong history on myth.

I can't stand the mythical figures, too much lies, good for a story but if you tell them to your daily scientists they will laugh at you for believing in fairy tales.

Therefore we shouldn't use the Shijing because it is basically poems and songs from the states and Zhou royals.

But it is also evident within those poems and songs of the Zhou movement and influence in China. Should we all simply disregard all these folktales and songs/poems as unreliable sources?

U can add up most chinese on this list....
It is myth which is said clearly by any chinese history book.

Shijing is the poems and songs. Has it ever said anything about Yellow emporer and so on?
U have mistaken Shiji for Shijing. One is a history book the other is a poem book.

No, not shiji but SHIJING the poem book. I'm not trying to disprove anything regarding the yellow emperor. I want to argue that since mythical stories are discredited, poems and songs should also be discredited too.

And the thing about the Yellow emperor, if he's merely but a myth did the Chinese fabricated his founding of music???

And what about all these other mythical beings? Great Yu? Hou Ji? All fabricated?

Let's just refer to it as the Classics.

I don't think legends are taken literally by historians. They are acknowledged however.

I wonder how reliable this is:

"One group cannot understand the other two's dialects. Fortunately, all three groups pay respect to the same ancestry, the legendary Chiyou. Legends, folk tales and folk songs are similar in many ways between the three groups"

So basically, I cannot understand you and you cannot understand I yet, both believe in same myth? Perhaps these people all shared the same myth before being separated.

I agree, no historian or scholar would take into account of mythical characters. But it is not about whether these mythical character actually existed or not, it's about the historical

connection between the group. Perhaps they were united at one point in history. Myths and folktales are only useful for making connections between groups. Otherwise they are

useless.

Further more,

"All of the different groups of the Hmong - in and out of China-have continued to practice the so-called showing the way or qhuab ke in Hmong, a funeral song sung to the deceased. Qhuab ke precisely guides the deceased individuals soul from his present location to the original homeland of his ancestors, tracing backward the migration route from village to village, city to city northeast towards the Beijing area"

So my understanding is that they all worship the same mythical ancestor AND all practice the same ritual despite the fact that they cannot communicate with each other. Therefore, they must stem from a common source.

Anwhere we can get down to the details of each of these rituals? Similarities and differences.

It was only briefly mentioned in the Yuepheng article. Not sure where he is getting his source. Wait, it's first hand source! ahaha.

I'll try to look more into this. But regarding the accuracy of this ritual song... Hmong people from Laos never knew of the Black River and this other place in North Vietnam yet, it

is mentioned in the ritual song. Therefore, supports the theory that this song retraces the migration of the people from Vietnam first, and then to Laos.

One thing, i'm highly skeptical of the Bejing thing. They claim (bay ching) as Bejing. Maybe it was fabricated. I don't buy this though...

Yeah, need to be Chinese history scholar and learn some Miao language to get down to it. Sounds like an interesting challenge for any young Hmongs to take up.