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galvatron
QUOTE
Fort Hood shooting: Woman police officer who brought down Muslim major Nidal Malik Hasan after he shot dead 13 at Texas army base


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/...-army-base.html
The heroic policewoman who shot an army psychiatrist during a murderous gun rampage at an army base was today named as Sergeant Kimberly Munley.

She had been on routine traffic patrol when Major Nidal Malik Hasan entered a medical centre at Ford Hood, Texas, shouted 'Allahu Akbar' (God is greatest) and opened fire.

It took just three minutes for the slightly built mother-of-one to get to the scene, engaging the killer in a gun battle which ended with him being shot four times.

In the course of the cross-fire, Sgt Munley, who has a daughter, was shot in the leg. Hasan had managed to kill 13 and wound 30 others before she got there.

Lt. Gen. Bob Cone described her actions as 'amazing and aggressive'.

'She was quite effective, one of our most impressive young policemen,' he added. 'She walked up and basically engaged him. I think, certainly, this could've been far worse.'

Hasan, who was furious about US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, is also in a stable condition in hospital and under armed guard.

At the time of the shooting he was facing an FBI investigation for expressing sympathy with suicide bombers.

The major, 39, had allegedly posted a series of comments on a website which drew parallels between terrorists and a US soldier who sacrificed himself to save his comrades.

Investigators were tipped off six months ago by the devout Muslim's worried colleagues.

His behaviour was particularly alarming as he was responsible for the psychological well-being of many vulnerable soldiers returning from Afghanistan and Iraq.

'If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory,' he is said to have written.

'Their intention is not to die because of some despair. Their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam.'

A well-known opponent of the war on terror, Hasan yesterday armed himself with two handguns before bursting into a medical centre at Fort Hood in Texas and spraying the room with bullets.

Witnesses described the carnage as the senior officer entered the Soldier Readiness Facility, where troops receive final check-ups before being deployed overseas, and opened fire at around 1.30pm.

George Stratton said his son George Stratton III was just five feet from the gunman and dived behind a desk to escape a hail of bullets.

'Around 15 rounds went off and people started dropping to the floor,' he said. 'My son peeked up over the desk and that was when he got shot.

'He said he saw one of the NCOs get badly shot. He told me "Dad, I got up, held my arm and took off running."'

Some victims were women. Amber Bahr, 19, had been on the phone to her mother before being shot in the stomach.

'She said "Hi Mommy, how are you doing?," Lisa Pfund said. 'All of a sudden, she said, "I gotta go."'

A short time later, Mrs Pfund received a phone call from the hospital confirming her daughter was injured.

Another of the injured was Private Keara Bono, 21. In a desperate phone call to her husband, she said: 'They shot me. And I'm still here in this country.'

He heard shots and shouting before the line went dead. She had been shot in the back.

In the aftermath of the shooting, soldiers rushed to treat their injured colleagues by ripping their uniforms into makeshift bandages.

The mayhem and terror at the scene was so great that officials have not ruled out the possibility that some casualties may have been victims of 'friendly fire', shot by authorities amid the confusion, said a senior US military source.

Of the 13 killed, 12 were soldiers and one was a civilian. Another 30 were injured, of which half needed surgery.

First reports said Hasan, who was wearing his uniform, had been killed. But early this morning it was revealed that he had been wounded and was in a stable condition on a ventilator.

'I would say his death is not imminent,' said Fort Hood military spokesman Lt. Gen. Bob Cone.
Investigators said Hasan had used two pistols, one a semi-automatic. Neither of the weapons was military issue. Soldiers at the base only carry weapons during training exercises.

The shooting took place just 50 yards from the Howze Theatre where a graduation ceremony for soldiers who had finished college courses was due to take place.

There were 600 people inside the auditorium at the time but soldiers managed to close the doors, averting a potentially worse tragedy.
Hasan is described as:

* Single with no children. He was born in America but gave his nationality as Palestinian
* A devout Muslim who had frequent arguments with military colleagues who supported the war on terror
* Desperate to avoid deployment to Iraq at the end of the year. He claimed to have been harassed by colleagues for his religious beliefs
* Educated at Virginia Tech, where 32 people were killed by student Seung-Hui Cho in 2007


Retired Colonel Terry Lee who worked with the major said: 'He was so outspoken I once said to him, "Look, you got to cool it."

'He was reacting with open glee at the death of some soldiers by a suicide bomber. I told him, "You might not agree with this but this is the army and we are here to serve the country.'

Mr Lee said Hasan repeatedly stated: 'Muslims should rise up against the aggressors.'

'He was very much against that and he was appealing through the channels for the deployment to be cancelled,' Mr Lee said.

However, Hasan's cousin Nader Hasan claimed he was a 'normal' American.

He said being deployed to Iraq was the major's 'worst nightmare.'

'I can't tell you why it happened,' Nader Hasan told Fox News. 'He's been making those requests (not to be deployed) since 9/11. He's been in military since right out of high school.

'Both his parents are American and I just want to make sure everyone understands he is a good American and we are shocked.'









sinraptor
they should really do a screening of who they let into the army, who knows maybe he could have done more damage if he had hi-jacked a tank
Atari400
QUOTE (sinraptor @ Nov 6 2009, 01:38 PM) *
they should really do a screening of who they let into the army, who knows maybe he could have done more damage if he had hi-jacked a tank


Everyone who goes into the Army gets a background check done through the FBI, and no, he probably wouldn't know what to do with a tank if he got one...Then again. icon_neutral.gif

One option is to ban all Arabs/Middle Easterners/Muslims from service in the U.S Military. Despite the whole illegality of that proposition, there are plenty of other problems with it. A lot of Arabs-Americans have/currently serve in the U.S military. Just look at General John Abizaid. Second, how do you define "Middle Easterner", and then what "Middle Easterners" get serve, and what don't. How many generations and how much ancestry is needed. Thirdly, anyone can be a damn Muslim psycho, including homegrown white-boys from the suburbs. So...We have a problem here.

On a side note, was this not like the highest scoring single Arab against the U.S Army, of all time? I mean, what is the kill ratio in Iraq between Arabs and Americans, fifty to one? This dough-boy just out did all his smelly cousins in the Arab Middle East!

If it matters at all, I was in the U.S Army, I am half-Iranian, and never saw any "anti-Middle Eastern" attitude at all. Never. Muslim, sure, but I have always believed that people should keep there damn f@cking religion to themselves. PLEASE!!!! beerchug.gif
pun187
QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 7 2009, 01:05 AM) *
Everyone who goes into the Army gets a background check done through the FBI, and no, he probably wouldn't know what to do with a tank if he got one...Then again. icon_neutral.gif

Oh, so that's why they have a lot of US Army gang bangers serving in Iraq I guess...

QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 7 2009, 01:05 AM) *
One option is to ban all Arabs/Middle Easterners/Muslims from service in the U.S Military.

Aren't we a little racist, Atari? Why not go ahead and also propose to put a checkmark on every Arab like the Nazis did in the good old days with Jews, except that back then some Jews were still serving in the Reichs Army, but that's another story.

QUOTE
Muslims at Fort Voice Outrage and Ask Questions


Sgt. Fahad Kamal participated in Friday prayers at the mosque of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen outside Fort Hood.

KILLEEN, Tex. — Leaders of the vibrant Muslim community here expressed outrage on Friday at the shooting rampage being laid to one of their members, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who had become a regular attendee of prayers at the local mosque.

But some of the men who had befriended Major Hasan at the mosque said the military should examine the policies that might have caused him to snap.

“When a white guy shoots up a post office, they call that going postal,” said Victor Benjamin II, 30, a former member of the Army. “But when a Muslim does it, they call it jihad.

“Ultimately it was Brother Nidal’s doing, but the command should be held accountable,” Mr. Benjamin said. “G.I.’s are like any equipment in the Army. When it breaks, those who were in charge of keeping it fit should be held responsible for it.”

The mosque, the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, sits off Highway 195, near Fort Hood. Major Hasan began attending prayers about two months ago.

The mosque has about 75 families who have lived peacefully with their Christian neighbors.

“After 9/11, nothing happened here,” said Ajsaf Khan, who owns three convenience stores with his brother, Abdul Khan. “We are very cooperative.”

A mosque leader, Dr. Manzoor Farooqi, a pediatrician, when asked if he feared retribution for the shootings, said he hoped good relations would prevail.

Major Hasan was one of about 10 men from Fort Hood who attended prayers in their uniforms, Dr. Farooqi said, and he was shocked to see the major’s face on television identified as that of the gunman. “He is an educated man. A psychiatrist,” he said. “I can’t believe he would do such a stupid thing.”

“I have no words to explain what happened yesterday,” Dr. Farooqi said at Friday afternoon prayers, in which about 40 men were led by the mosque’s imam, Syed Ahmed Ali. “Let’s have a moment of silence to bless those who lost their life.”

“The Islamic community strongly condemns this cowardly attack, which was particularly heinous in that it was directed at the all-volunteer army that protects our nation,” Dr. Farooqi said.

Nihad Awad, the national executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said, “We reiterate the American Muslim community’s condemnation of this cowardly attack. Right now, we call on all Americans to assist those who are responding to this atrocity. We must ensure that the wounded are treated and the families of those who were murdered have an opportunity to mourn.”

Among those attending Friday prayers at the Killeen mosque was Sgt. Fahad Kamal, 26, an Army medic who wore his Airborne uniform, and later he said he was angered on several levels. “I want to believe it was the individual, and not the religion, that made him do what he did,” said Sergeant Kamal, who returned to the United States last year after a 15-month tour in Afghanistan. “It’s an awful thing. I feel let down. We’re better than this.”

It was Major Hasan, though, who increasingly felt let down by the military, and deeply conflicted by his religion, said those who knew him through the mosque. Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old substitute teacher whose parents worked at Fort Hood, said Major Hassan was told he would be sent to Afghanistan on Nov. 28, and he did not like it.

“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”

Mr. Benjamin, who worked as a private contractor in Iraq and Afghanistan after leaving the Army in 2000, said the military should have let Major Hassan resign. “They should take more consideration of the human beings in the uniform,” he said, “rather than simply say, ‘We invested our money in you and need to get our money’s worth.’”

Still, Mr. Benjamin added, Major Hassan had overlooked an important, and peaceable, tenet of Islam. “We do have the right to retaliate,” he said, “but he who does not is twice blessed.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07muslim.html?_r=2

sinraptor
so he snapped because of taunting?
Atari400
QUOTE (pun187 @ Nov 7 2009, 04:36 AM) *
Oh, so that's why they have a lot of US Army gang bangers serving in Iraq I guess...


No criminal record as adults. It is that simple. Stop talking like you ever served in anything but the Saudi boy scouts...Also known as Al-Qaeda.

This disgusting lard-body named "Nidal" was nearly 40. Even then, he managed not to commit any recorded crimes or warrant any real investigation until the day he went "Muslim". Still, he should have set off a lot of alarm bells in the last few years. I know when I was in, there were two groups I always kept a scrutinized eye on on. Evangelical Christians and Sunni Muslims. Both put their religion before nationality and all else, and both have tendencies to be prone to violence when they don't get their way.

I guess the good thing that will come out of all of this as well as all of the terrorist arrests over the last few weeks, is that Americans who were still willing to give "Muslims" in the U.S the benefit of the doubt since 9/11, have now had their eyes opened.

For that, I am grateful.

QUOTE
Aren't we a little racist, Atari? Why not go ahead and also propose to put a checkmark on every Arab like the Nazis did in the good old days with Jews, except that back then some Jews were still serving in the Reichs Army, but that's another story.


The only racist here is you, and that bigoted symbol in your avatar. It screams "kill or convert all the filthy Persians into Arabs"! embarassedlaugh.gif

I never said go after the "Arabs". In fact, if you actually read my post, you would see that I pointed out the absurdity of the notion. Most Arabs in this country are none Evangelical Christians, either Catholic or Orthodox. Most also are not very religious at all. This man cared more for being "Muslim", than being an Arab. That is where his perverse and flawed identity lay. As such, 13 of his fellow soldiers are dead, nearly 40 wounded, and Arabs, not Muslims, must be worried about true long term repercussions of racism. He was a traitor on many levels.

There is nothing "racist" when dealing with and singling out Muslims, or any proselytizing religion that seeks mass conversion. That is a question of belief, not race, and belief leads to action in many cases. Anyone can be a "Muslim", and anyone can quit being one any day of the week. I am "Middle Eastern"(pointless term) myself, and see no reason to scrutinize say Arabs, anymore than any other American of any ethnic background. It is Muslims, namely the Sunni Wahabi types, that are causing this mess in the modern world today, along with their Evangelical Protestant Christian cousins to a lesser extent. You, on the other hand, are trying to paint Muslims as some kind of ethnicity, which is not only silly and disingenuous, but ultimately and failed undertaking. Islam is a diverse religion, not a race, ethnicity, language or culture. That is all it is, and people who attempt to turn it into somehting it is not, suffer from mental illness, such as our friend "Nidal" here....And Osama Bin Laden.

As far as the Jews are concerned, why bring them into this argument? We are not talking about your beloved Palestinians, so put down your copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion for a second. They did not serve in the Army's of the 3rd Reich. That is a flat out lie. If you had Jewish ancestry within Nazi occupied territory and they find out about it, you died. That simple. End of discussion.

You sound like some kind of sick holocaust denier. Get some help...Really.

QUOTE (sinraptor @ Nov 7 2009, 02:58 PM) *
so he snapped because of taunting?


He snapped like a lot of these relgious freaks do. He wore his religion on his sleeve, and couldn't stand the response he got...Shocking.
pun187
QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 7 2009, 10:12 PM) *
No criminal record as adults. It is that simple.

Funny, because the majority of the people who will join the US Army, will do that by the age of 18-19 i.e. people who just started being counted as legal adults. LOL

QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 7 2009, 10:12 PM) *
Stop talking like you ever served in anything but the Saudi boy scouts...Also known as Al-Qaeda.

embarassedlaugh.gif

Stop making a joker out of yourself with such comments. Just because I'm a Muslim I'm automatically AL-Qaeda? I'd expect such thinking from a Hick.

You might call Al-Qaeda "US Boy Scouts" though, since it's the CIA who funded Al-Qaeda at their very beginning with 6 billion dollars from 1989-92 , so that they can fight the evil Communists.

QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 7 2009, 10:12 PM) *
The only racist here is you, and that bigoted symbol in your avatar. It screams "kill or convert all the filthy Persians into Arabs"! embarassedlaugh.gif

The hatred for Arabs and Muslims in your posts is obvious dude, but whatever makes you sleep at night. If believing that I'm a racist makes you sleep good at night, than be it so. LOL
Atari400
QUOTE (pun187 @ Nov 8 2009, 04:13 AM) *
Funny, because the majority of the people who will join the US Army, will do that by the age of 18-19 i.e. people who just started being counted as legal adults. LOL


embarassedlaugh.gif

Stop making a joker out of yourself with such comments. Just because I'm a Muslim I'm automatically AL-Qaeda? I'd expect such thinking from a Hick.


It not just me, kiddo...The breathtaking actions of you "true believers" around the world has really set the wheels in motion.


QUOTE
You might call Al-Qaeda "US Boy Scouts" though, since it's the CIA who funded Al-Qaeda at their very beginning with 6 billion dollars from 1989-92 , so that they can fight the evil Communists.


They funded various Mujahideen factions during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Some went on to become "Al-Qaeda", your idols in life. The problem is, the so-called "Arab-Afghans" during the war, simply did not fight. They took the money, and took lots of pictures to send back to Saudi Arabia of themselves on "Jihad". They were not fighters, but rather spoiled-rotten brats like yourself.

Read this book, and learn a thing or two about the conflict to avoid further embarrassment on your part:

Amazon Book - Afghan Guerrilla Warfare




QUOTE
The hatred for Arabs and Muslims in your posts is obvious dude, but whatever makes you sleep at night. If believing that I'm a racist makes you sleep good at night, than be it so. LOL


Lets see...Arabs kill 1,000,000 Iranians in the 1980's for no reason. A war I lost family in. They even used chemical nerve agents any chance they could. In fact Saddam Hussein's, the Arab Nationalist himself, favorite quote was;

"Three Whom God Should Not have Created: Persians, Jews and Flies"

Muslim morons currently run Iran, and are a horrible embarrassment. From denying the holocaust and sending insane amounts of money to Palestinians, to the importation Arab thugs from Lebanon to crack down on "dissenters". Trying to wipe out the basic elements of Persian history, and reshape the country as something purely "Islamic", which in the modern world simply means Arab. After all, with the failure of Arab Nationalism in the 20th century, Arab funded Islamic fundamentalism has come to replace it. The result in a world-wide movement to "Islamify" all Muslims the world over, into an image better suited for people in Saudi Arabia. The list goes on, and on, and on...

You are obviously one of these new age Muslim fundamentalists, who holds an ideology based off of the Islamic brotherhood in Egypt, regardless if you realize it or not. Putting that symbol in your avatar probably means you are Shia. Not Iranian, but Shia. After all, there is a large amount of Shia in Pakistan and India, as well as Iraq. What you don't realize or understand, is that you have no connection to the place. It's current government, like all governments and political movements, will only last a finite amount of time. Any notions you have of the place being "yours" on account of an ideology, will put you in position for a eventual rude awakening. The process began nearly 20 years, and make take another. Hell, I doubt there will ever be a revolution in the place, only gradual change. One day you wake up, and it is a different show all together.

Now, how about putting a sybol as your avatar, that more reflects your world view...


Jagger
QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 7 2009, 08:12 PM) *
No criminal record as adults. It is that simple. Stop talking like you ever served in anything but the Saudi boy scouts...Also known as Al-Qaeda.

This disgusting lard-body named "Nidal" was nearly 40. Even then, he managed not to commit any recorded crimes or warrant any real investigation until the day he went "Muslim". Still, he should have set off a lot of alarm bells in the last few years. I know when I was in, there were two groups I always kept a scrutinized eye on on. Evangelical Christians and Sunni Muslims. Both put their religion before nationality and all else, and both have tendencies to be prone to violence when they don't get their way.

I guess the good thing that will come out of all of this as well as all of the terrorist arrests over the last few weeks, is that Americans who were still willing to give "Muslims" in the U.S the benefit of the doubt since 9/11, have now had their eyes opened.

For that, I am grateful.

Nidal may have killed your fellow US soldiers, but the fact that he didn't go out targetting civilians makes me think he isn't such a 'terrorist' that Americans are making him out to be.

If the US Army does stop recruiting Muslims though, then that can only mean less soldiers to serve America in their 'War on Terror'.

QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 7 2009, 08:12 PM) *
The only racist here is you, and that bigoted symbol in your avatar. It screams "kill or convert all the filthy Persians into Arabs"! embarassedlaugh.gif

I never said go after the "Arabs". In fact, if you actually read my post, you would see that I pointed out the absurdity of the notion. Most Arabs in this country are none Evangelical Christians, either Catholic or Orthodox. Most also are not very religious at all. This man cared more for being "Muslim", than being an Arab. That is where his perverse and flawed identity lay. As such, 13 of his fellow soldiers are dead, nearly 40 wounded, and Arabs, not Muslims, must be worried about true long term repercussions of racism. He was a traitor on many levels.

Why should an individual's ethnicity/race, something which an individual has no control over, be a more important identity than their beliefs (whether moral, religious or philosophical), something that an individual does have control over? That's a perverse and flawed identity right there.

And why exactly should anti-Islamic attitudes worry non-Muslim Arabs more than non-Arab Muslims? That doesn't even make any sense. If anything, some non-Muslim Arabs themselves hold anti-Islamic attitudes, as do some non-Arab Muslims who hold anti-Arab attitudes.
Ralf
Lots of attitude and personal attacks here.

We had a young dude from the army going berserk and shooting people at random in the street.
He was a fan of shoot 'em up computer games.
.... still I am not going to throw away my zombie shoot 'em ups.

We had a stressed-out office worker blowing away his colleagues.
We had horny jilted teenager shooting tourists at a holiday destination.
We had a drunk biker with delusions of being an enforcer and blasting random commuters for jaywalking.
The story is always the same...... someone cracks the $hits and lashes out at the society which he perceives to be against him.

At some time we will no doubt have another aggro-head blowing his top, and if he happens to be Muslim, then it will certainly hit the headlines around the globe.
sinraptor
QUOTE (Ralf @ Nov 9 2009, 12:19 AM) *
Lots of attitude and personal attacks here.

We had a young dude from the army going berserk and shooting people at random in the street.
He was a fan of shoot 'em up computer games.
.... still I am not going to throw away my zombie shoot 'em ups.

We had a stressed-out office worker blowing away his colleagues.
We had horny jilted teenager shooting tourists at a holiday destination.
We had a drunk biker with delusions of being an enforcer and blasting random commuters for jaywalking.
The story is always the same...... someone cracks the $hits and lashes out at the society which he perceives to be against him.

At some time we will no doubt have another aggro-head blowing his top, and if he happens to be Muslim, then it will certainly hit the headlines around the globe.


good point.... i never even heard of the other stories
Atari400
QUOTE (Jagger @ Nov 9 2009, 12:31 AM) *
Nidal may have killed your fellow US soldiers, but the fact that he didn't go out targetting civilians makes me think he isn't such a 'terrorist' that Americans are making him out to be.


Well, he obviously had a targeted agenda. Whatever that was he wanted to accomplish, he did manage to fulfill and reinforce ever single possible negative notion and stereotype of the "psychopathic terrorist Muslim" that now exists in America, and pretty much the entire civilized world.

Shooting up his fellow soldiers is traitorous, regardless of your religion and background, or the Army you serve. This Army paid that fat slob to go though medical school. Even worse, he is a coward. It is not like he went to the local base MP station and picked a fight with the armed police. At least he would have had some respect for that, for being a "man". No, he chose to shoot up and kill unarmed men an women, who could never have expected such an attack to take place then and there. Same principle as 9/11. It fits the definition of terrorism perfectly. Need I really post the definition for you?


QUOTE
If the US Army does stop recruiting Muslims though, then that can only mean less soldiers to serve America in their 'War on Terror'.


So what.

The U.S is a country with a population of over 300 million. Practicing Muslims are but a minority within a minority. They are not needed. Waging war in places like Iraq and Afghanistan won't be effected. Plenty of people here in the U.S speak the native tongues of those lands, and do not consider themselves "Ummah Borthers" of any kind. Nothing will really change. If anything, the Army will be a safer place to be. More importantly, Americans will as a whole have much less sympathy for anything with the word "Islam" attached to it. The Iraq invasion could not have happened without 9/11, and whatever comes in the future will be that much easier to push forward because of morons like this "Nidal". He, and others like him, make it infinitely easier for the U.S to kill "Muslims" than any Islamophobe ever could. Go on guys, keep up lashing out with violence that has absolutely no purpose, objective or gain in any way. That will accomplish something! icon_twisted.gif


QUOTE
Why should an individual's ethnicity/race, something which an individual has no control over, be a more important identity than their beliefs (whether moral, religious or philosophical), something that an individual does have control over? That's a perverse and flawed identity right there.


Which is why I thought it silly to go after Arabs or other Middle Easterners in general. Unlike you, I am "Middle Eastern" myself. We are born what we are, and have no control over that. That is why racism is an ugly thing. If one is born of Arab, African or Chinese descent in America, they will have a "look" to them that they will carry their entire lives. No matter what they do, or how they act, it is the first thing most people will see when meeting you. This man Nidal was not just a "Muslim"...He was of Arab ethnicity, and of Middle Eastern background, as were many of the terrorist suspects arrested in the last few weeks, and all of the 9/11 hijackers. Americans of all backgrounds see this, and unfortunately associate Islam with all things Middle Eastern and Arabic. Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity or race. It is ultimately an ideology, and a choice. People choose to "be Muslim", and see the world trough that lens, as do Evangelical Christians, communists, and any other "ism" form of thought you can concoct. People put these notions first before all, and that was makes them so dangerous. We cannot chose our "race", but we can choose how we think, and that is the true perversion of Nidal. He does not see the world as an American, or even as an Arab, or even as a human. He sees himself as a Muslim first and foremost, and that is where his confusion began. Other human beings do not necessarily prescribe to that view, and more importantly, will not always act they way he would wish or demand. His response was to act out violently, as opposed to being a model American, and trying to make Americans actually think warmly of "Muslims" and Islam as a religion.

No, he like many is a "Muslim" first and foremost, the reality of the world be damned...

QUOTE
And why exactly should anti-Islamic attitudes worry non-Muslim Arabs more than non-Arab Muslims? That doesn't even make any sense. If anything, some non-Muslim Arabs themselves hold anti-Islamic attitudes, as do some non-Arab Muslims who hold anti-Arab attitudes.


Simple. The attacker(s) this last decade are/were mostly Arabs. Arabs are Middle Eastern. If you are or look Middle Eastern, you get targeted, regardless of how you dress or act. Most converts to Islam, or Southeast Asian Muslims, or Black Muslims...They just need only not wear the "dress" and tell everyone about their beliefs. For Middle Easter folks, it is a true battle against racism and hatred, and one they have no control over. There is simply nothing you can do. It is out of our hands.

You have the audacity to actually think this only effects your beloved "Muslims"...Please. icon_neutral.gif

QUOTE (Ralf @ Nov 9 2009, 03:19 AM) *
Lots of attitude and personal attacks here.

We had a young dude from the army going berserk and shooting people at random in the street.
He was a fan of shoot 'em up computer games.
.... still I am not going to throw away my zombie shoot 'em ups.

We had a stressed-out office worker blowing away his colleagues.
We had horny jilted teenager shooting tourists at a holiday destination.
We had a drunk biker with delusions of being an enforcer and blasting random commuters for jaywalking.
The story is always the same...... someone cracks the $hits and lashes out at the society which he perceives to be against him.

At some time we will no doubt have another aggro-head blowing his top, and if he happens to be Muslim, then it will certainly hit the headlines around the globe.


You are half right.

In this case, we have a man who can be directly tied to a Mosque that the 9/11 hijackers attended, and an Imam who preached violent acts in the name of Islam. He can therefore be directly tied to an ideology that actually preaches this kind of behavior. An ideology created in and funded by Saudi Arabian money. An ideology that caused him to shout "Allah Akbar" as he shot and killed unarmed innocent people. An ideology that produces an seemingly endless number of psychos in the U.S and Europe, seemingly willing to due what he did. Is it Islam? It is a form of Islam. Late 20th century Sunni Islam, for sure. Wahabist Islam. Insane Islam. It is very real, and in the end has nothing to contribute to human civilization. In fact, it is self-defeating in nature. It will in fact run it's course in time, but not before many more people have suffered.

That is just reality. icon_neutral.gif
Jagger
QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 9 2009, 07:23 PM) *
Well, he obviously had a targeted agenda. Whatever that was he wanted to accomplish, he did manage to fulfill and reinforce ever single possible negative notion and stereotype of the "psychopathic terrorist Muslim" that now exists in America, and pretty much the entire civilized world.

Shooting up his fellow soldiers is traitorous, regardless of your religion and background, or the Army you serve. This Army paid that fat slob to go though medical school. Even worse, he is a coward. It is not like he went to the local base MP station and picked a fight with the armed police. At least he would have had some respect for that, for being a "man". No, he chose to shoot up and kill unarmed men an women, who could never have expected such an attack to take place then and there. Same principle as 9/11. It fits the definition of terrorism perfectly. Need I really post the definition for you?

Nope. This incident is of hardly any concern to the "entire civilized world" outside of America. In the British press, for example, more attention has been given to a similar story about British soldiers in Afghanistan being killed by Taliban who disguised themselves as Afghan police officers. This incident is more relevant to Afghanistan as well, as it has led to mistrust between Coalition soldiers and Afghan police.

Are you seriously comparing this incident to 9/11? How can an attack on US soldiers be the same as an attack on innocent US civilians? If that qualifies as terrorism, then all the Coalition soldiers who have ever killed "terrorists" in Iraq or Afghanistan are themselves "terrorists". I understand that you served in the US Army and therefore have more empathy for US soldiers, but extending the definition of "terrorism" to the killing of soldiers is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Most of those soldiers he killed/injured would have been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan at some point either way. By killing/injuring them before they could be deployed, as cowardly and traitorous as that may be, it would effectively be the same thing as killing those soldiers after they get deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan. In times of war, it's not uncommon for traitors to defect from one side to another. Although Nidal didn't actually join the Iraqi/Afghan resistance, he is pretty much contributing to their cause.

QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 9 2009, 07:23 PM) *
So what.

The U.S is a country with a population of over 300 million. Practicing Muslims are but a minority within a minority. They are not needed. Waging war in places like Iraq and Afghanistan won't be effected. Plenty of people here in the U.S speak the native tongues of those lands, and do not consider themselves "Ummah Borthers" of any kind. Nothing will really change. If anything, the Army will be a safer place to be. More importantly, Americans will as a whole have much less sympathy for anything with the word "Islam" attached to it. The Iraq invasion could not have happened without 9/11, and whatever comes in the future will be that much easier to push forward because of morons like this "Nidal". He, and others like him, make it infinitely easier for the U.S to kill "Muslims" than any Islamophobe ever could. Go on guys, keep up lashing out with violence that has absolutely no purpose, objective or gain in any way. That will accomplish something! icon_twisted.gif

If America is to fight the War on Terror, then it will need Muslim support. Why? Because most of the soldiers that are actually fighting the terrorists are Muslim troops from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other Muslim countries. Without their support, America has pretty much already lost the War on Terror.

QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 9 2009, 07:23 PM) *
Which is why I thought it silly to go after Arabs or other Middle Easterners in general. Unlike you, I am "Middle Eastern" myself. We are born what we are, and have no control over that. That is why racism is an ugly thing. If one is born of Arab, African or Chinese descent in America, they will have a "look" to them that they will carry their entire lives. No matter what they do, or how they act, it is the first thing most people will see when meeting you. This man Nidal was not just a "Muslim"...He was of Arab ethnicity, and of Middle Eastern background, as were many of the terrorist suspects arrested in the last few weeks, and all of the 9/11 hijackers. Americans of all backgrounds see this, and unfortunately associate Islam with all things Middle Eastern and Arabic. Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity or race. It is ultimately an ideology, and a choice. People choose to "be Muslim", and see the world trough that lens, as do Evangelical Christians, communists, and any other "ism" form of thought you can concoct. People put these notions first before all, and that was makes them so dangerous. We cannot chose our "race", but we can choose how we think, and that is the true perversion of Nidal. He does not see the world as an American, or even as an Arab, or even as a human. He sees himself as a Muslim first and foremost, and that is where his confusion began. Other human beings do not necessarily prescribe to that view, and more importantly, will not always act they way he would wish or demand. His response was to act out violently, as opposed to being a model American, and trying to make Americans actually think warmly of "Muslims" and Islam as a religion.

No, he like many is a "Muslim" first and foremost, the reality of the world be damned...

And how is identifying with a race/nation/ethnicity first and foremost any better than identifying with an ideology/religion/philosophy first and foremost?

QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 9 2009, 07:23 PM) *
Simple. The attacker(s) this last decade are/were mostly Arabs. Arabs are Middle Eastern. If you are or look Middle Eastern, you get targeted, regardless of how you dress or act. Most converts to Islam, or Southeast Asian Muslims, or Black Muslims...They just need only not wear the "dress" and tell everyone about their beliefs. For Middle Easter folks, it is a true battle against racism and hatred, and one they have no control over. There is simply nothing you can do. It is out of our hands.

You have the audacity to actually think this only effects your beloved "Muslims"...Please. icon_neutral.gif

Please... just because you are "Middle Eastern", that doesn't mean your beloved "Middle Eastern" people have suffered the most from the anti-Islamic backlash. If anything, it was the South Asian Sikhs that have had it worst when it came to anti-Islamic discrimination or anti-Arab racism, simply because they are brown and most of them wear turbans... and they are not even Muslim or "Middle Eastern".
Atari400
QUOTE (Jagger @ Nov 9 2009, 05:11 PM) *
Please... just because you are "Middle Eastern", that doesn't mean your beloved "Middle Eastern" people have suffered the most from the anti-Islamic backlash. If anything, it was the South Asian Sikhs that have had it worst when it came to anti-Islamic discrimination or anti-Arab racism, simply because they are brown and most of them wear turbans... and they are not even Muslim or "Middle Eastern".


Looks to me like you are putting race before religion...Hypocrite. embarassedlaugh.gif
Jagger
QUOTE (Atari400 @ Nov 10 2009, 06:35 AM) *
Looks to me like you are putting race before religion...Hypocrite. embarassedlaugh.gif

That doesn't even make any sense... I think you've really lost it this time, pops. munch.gif
Najjiah
allah hu akbar simply means god is great in arabic.
Ralf
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Nov 11 2009, 08:52 AM) *
allah hu akbar simply means god is great in arabic.
Aloha Najjiah.
Ya, it means God is great, and it is used by most folks as a form of praising God.
The trouble is that some fanatical folks take it to mean, "My God is greater than your god".
We have had the same thing throughout history, with various societies claiming that their religion is true and the others must be destroyed.
When you look at it from that angle, you can see why Richard Dawkins is so frustrated by faith-based dogma.

I agree that any belief system is bad, if it involves hurting people. I reckon just about everybody would agree on that point.
The problem is that Humans have aggressive instincts, and sometimes they will latch on to an ideology or religion in order to justify their violence.
Especially if an individual thinks that he has been hard done by, then he may react violently to his perceived enemy, and claim it is justified by his beliefs.

The flip side is that there will be a backlash against innocent people who follow the same faith, yet do not share in those violent delusions.
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