How do u think about Garuda n its problems such as the small amount of fleet, pilots quitting, and its bad service (delays, etc) especially on its domestic flights. The route network is now very small and I don't find the entertainment on board amusing (maybe I said too much since i'm comparing with SIA)


Garuda Indonesia


Merpati Nusantara


The popular LCC, Lion Air.

And what do u think about those new LCC such as AdamAir, Batavia Air, and many more

Many people actually think that garuda is improving lho. I personally think they are the best in indonesia. Garuda also have new fleets but not as many as SIA. Planes like the airbus A330, boeing 735 and other next generations are among those they have They are also phasing out the lovely DC-10 replacing with B777, install PTV to aircrafts (dont know if it finished) and more asian flights. I dont know about other airlines though, but i heard that lion is making so much profit though im a bit curious about their safety. They used old planes and etc...

Pic1
The beutiful and mengkilat A330 my fav plane.

Pic2
Very sad that they are phasing out this classic DC-10

Pic3
B 735, 737 next generation.

My dad works for them actually ! And i have first hand experiance with the staff directly related to garuda, whenever they come to australia i always take them around to see the sites specially the ones i know, love it when i see them, both pilots and pramugari's and they always speak about these things.

From my observations I think the reason why alot of the employees are leaving is that many of the staff arent taken care of like some of the other airlines. simple example. I was at sukarno hatta couple months back and there was a garuda staff member who had just been to training in jakarta and wanted to go back to surabaya, season was packed because this was basically the beginning of ramadan and obviously everyone wants to visit makam, go back to home town whatever.

He was actually working at the time in jakarta but because of this ID ticket he actually had to wait for an empty seat on the airplane before he could actually get on. How shocking is that, i mean i excepted the fact that i had to wait because i was not on work leave like he was i was on holidays but he was working and he was waiting with me at the airport for almost 4 flights before there was a seat, this was almost a 6 hour wait !


If you look at qantas staff for example, if they are sent to melbourne or sydney to do training, their ticket has the same privlages as a normal passenger and that is the way it should be, because they are sent because of the company so the company should compansate, the company needs them, company should repay them.

Also obviously piolts and the pramugari's get paid alot less at garuda to lets say qantas or singapore airlines and many of them just try to rackup the hours at garuda and leave at the first chance they get. Its because Again Garuda is not taking care of its staff and giving them the deserved attention they should get.

Regarding the service, i remeber once i flew from jakarta - bali right, lots of japanese tourists on the plane, when they speak about the saftey issues or when statments are made they usually say them in english, indonesian and depending on where they are japanese also, i remeber that at this particualr time the japanese spoken was so terrible (mean i dont even speak japanese but noticed from the faces of the tourists) it was shocking.

Garuda should correctly train up the staff to be able to speak well enough to get the message across. Even the english sometimes is very difficult to understand, i mean so many of you guys here speak awesome english, its just a matter of correct funding for the staff but its just not done, and thats seen i guess by people as a lack of service.

The final thing is this kind of thing.
Computers at the garuda office where damaged and old, 486's. Can you believe where still being used, my dad was using one and could hardly get on the internet, and this is whilst all other airline company ground staff are using new PC's.

Eventually garuda decide to upgrade and i make a suggestion as to how to proceed with an upgrade in the most effective way, i dont even work for them but i just wanted to help.

I come back a few weeks later and all the computers are replaced, i was like kool , but i wanted to know if they got a good deal, what i found out was that the computers where on lease and it was like a 4-5 year contract, so they are bound to it, service/ replacment parts everything from the company they are leasing from. After i asked the cost i found out that after a year of renting, they could have owned the computers if they had bought it using the suggestion that i gave them.

After i heard i just hung my head and thought, OK bad choice but if thats there decision then thats their decision ... BUT what got me most annoyed is the fact that the computers where being leased from a company, who's owner BTW is the financial manager of Garuda's friend ! and get this, he's not even indonesian , i guess though dia tau sifat kita ya, jadi tau kalo mau mainin kita to gimmana.

I can almost be certain that some of the other managers where given a cut just so they could accept this contract !! But its these kinds of moves that are made that is costing not just garuda but indonesia as a whole.

I mean if the money was spent wisley maybe on training up staff, giving staff the deserved recognition they should get when the company sends them of to work elsewhere then all the problems would just fix themselves cause everyone will be happy, our top pilots wont be looking for opportunities elsewhere, we would be able to communicate with our customers better etc, it would be just better as a whole.

And about sales, dont even go there, i know couple of tour and travel companys that are just sick and tired of dealing with some garuda and now even though people want to fly to indonesia, these tours and travels company want to bypass all the crap and now just suggest their clients fly singapore and malaysia.

when i go to indo i see even more Lion airway checkin stations now, pretty soon its gonna be all lion checkin's and its going to be sad when that happens.

garuda indonesia has great service n generally on-time. i think its better than qantas. garuda's downfall is in the management, n the pilot's english is totally incomprehensible

Awesome, thats great to hear ! , the service when your onboard is great cause of the good work of the onflight staff, but i think thats cause we are indo and we can speak with them in indonesian, i could imagine though, if i couldnt speak indo and heard the english then i would be kinda frustrating.

The ontime issue, i guess thats subjective, depends on your luck, if your always there when its all smooth then thats great, but every person has a different point of view with this i've noticed.

Its funny though, you should see some of the reasons why the plane is late, sometimes its cause some idiot, has been sleeping in the waiting room and has missied the last call and the staff gotta run around looking for him to wake his sorry @$$ up, this can delay the plane by 20 minutes sometimes. 2 2

darn..that's embarassing...

Untill this summer I took 1 - 2 times a year Garuda from Solo via Cengkareng to Amsterdam, some 12 times to and fro the last 8 years. I always bought Premium Class tickets which could be called a bargain. I remember nearly all the time the
service was excellent, delays, maybe one time in Singapore for 2 hours, always on time. For me it was always the first choice. But they have ceased their flights to Europe, last month I took Singapore Airlines, that was good too, but for Economy seat the same price as Garuda Premium. SIA flies with Boeing 777, Garuda used 747-400. With GIA it took 22 hours from my door in Amsterdam to my Solo door. With SIA only 19 hours as they fly AMS - SIN directly and after 1 hour waiting SIN - SOC with Silk Air which usese Airbus 320 (??). I missed GIA, in future I will fly SIA to and from Europe because of he good connection.

I flew with many so called cheap Domestic Comp. like Jatayu, Mandala, Bouraq, Merpati (This is on myblacklist) and Lion Air. Lion is very populair because they are cheap. But they often fly on inconvienient hours. 6 o'clock in the morning from CGK to YOG or 19.00 from SOC to CGK. I aklso don't like their planes, MD 83 and 90, just like busses. They fly with Spanish pilots that are really "pirates" I remember one time the plane at CGK was delayed and the pilot became very angry, when he took off he flew straight to Yogya, without taking the route over the sea, took only 35 minutes, crazy. Also the staff of Lion Air is far from professional,because they grow so fast they have many untrained and unexperienced staff who make a lot of mistakes. Also the Lion passengers are the type who normally travelled by train, and come with their lugguage in Aqua,
Baygon and Indo Mie boxes,and take the first empty seat they see, not knowing the seats have numbers. For domestic I also always prefer Garuda, becuase one gets where one is paying for and good new planes, and no noisy planes from at least 15 years ago.

It is a pity that Garuda is slowly going bankrupt,sucked out. The future of flying in Indonesia might be cheap tickets but with passengers treated as cattle by non-professionals.

Londoh

I happened to miss my last call because of my too many imaginations and thoughts. When I realized it I ran as fast as I could on 5-CM heels shoes! And the stewardess looked angry at me and my face must be looked like a red shrimp! How embarrasing! I won't do that for twice.

About the fleet size, I read it in the paper and they said that they only have 3 B747s.
I don't know if it's just my bad luck or what but evrytime I use GA, the flight was delayed but some said that delays only occur in domestic flight.
And r they installing PTV now? That's good!
Did u know that Merpati just celebrated its 42nd b'day by selling tickets priced Rp42.000,00 and $42??

i remember this joke my mate had about garuda

G o
A nd
R elax
U r flight is
D elayed
A nyway

i thought that was quite original

^ hey.. that aint fair.. my garuda flights r on-time.. dunno about the overall performance, but this online review seems to suggest garuda indonesia has great service n generally on-time.

maybe the bad rep came from the 1990s during new order when the airline bcome kind of "cashcow" for corrupt officials like indon SOEs mostly at that time..

the worst delay i had was air new zealand when goin to auckland in 1997, the plane got technical problems we were delayed for 20 hours!

damn, that's pretty bad man..
My worst delay was on a flight form Jakarta to Bali.. the flight was delayed 4 hours! I ended up having a second lunch and drinkin lots of teh botol

My worst delay was with qantas from sydney to melbourne, about 4 hrs too. That was so tiring, they had to change gates or something so i first i walked to gate according to boarding pass then they said the plane changed to gate located at the other end of the pier. i enjoyed it though cuz i like walking around an airport 2

Sydney's airport isn't convenient. Especially for transfer between Int'l n domestic flight, got to use the bus n run if the time isn't much.

What I like from GA is the staff n the food. Basically, it's better than Qantas.

I never experience very bad delay with garuda, but 15 minute to half an hour delay is normal every airflight did the same.
I always choose garuda if they are available on the route, garuda is very generous regarding service, basically you can get your own drink by yourself as much as you want if the route are long trip/international. I hope garuda will be always on top bcoz it more represent indonesia and always keep their generous service.

hehehe i prefer garuda cuz they use better planes to australia. more quite and wider. also the younger flight attendants

Only flew Qantas AGGESSS ago so i wouldnt know about what they are like now, i only know that the staff of qantas get a better deal then our staff.

I have flown singapore and malaysian and their economy class is much better i felt, i never went on singapore or malaysias business class so i wouldnt know but the garuda's business is pretty good.

The food is also good on garuda but thats cause im indo and i like that stuff, no need to worry about getting a pork steak or bacon and eggs for breakfast halal all the way I have heard alot of comments to the contrary though

OHH and dont even talk about the flight attendents they are awesome, very good looking, polite . Best thing about flying garuda for me is when i see some of the inflight staff that i know, they sit and chat for a couple of minutes, makes the flight so much better.

I hope garuda never go out of business ! Hopefully them stupid corrupt bean counters dont stuff up indonesia's flag ship !

Well.. I think Garuda still the best compare to new airline in Indonesia. (I never fly abroad :p). Once....I used Lion Air and a lil bit traumatic..... when it take off and landing.... u can feel the wheel... gosh!!!!! but garuda.....it was smooth

Well, Garuda should renew itself to acommodate passenger's needs. For food n staff, they're good but for the entertainment --> Where r the PTVs?!?!?

btw, I like MAS' new TV commercial (the one in the park with a girl riding a bike) It's very unique

Ever since BA pulled out of KL, I fly via Schiphol quite frequently and there are always many Indonesians transitting there. Can't help but notice a trend that more and more Indonesians are flying MAS on its codeshare with KLM to KL.

MAS and Garuda have pretty good codeshares on many flight sectors. Add to that the fact that MAS are KLM's main codeshare partner to Australia, which all indicate that there are even more room for co-operation between MAS and Garuda.


(I'll have both the sambal udang and tempe, please!)

An old news clipping:

Garuda Indonesia and Malaysian Airline System Expand their code-share Agreement

Garuda Indonesia (GA) and Malaysian Airline System (MH) agreed to expand their cooperation operationally and commercially to grab market in Europe and Australia. This expansion is the development of previous code-share agreement signed by two airlines which originally intended to grab the market in Indonesia and Malaysia. The purpose of this "code-share" is to maintain and to strengthen the market - share of both airlines specifically in Europe after Bali tragedy, Iraq war and SARS issue as well as to create more competitive product especially at complementary service between Europe and Australia.

GA and MH, at first step, will work on routes Kuala Lumpur - London v.v, Kuala Lumpur - Frankfurt v.v. and Denpasar - Darwin v.v. Then step into Kuala - Lumpur - Rome v.v, Kuala Lumpur - Amsterdam v.v and other destinations in Europe and Australia.

The code-share will take effect on July 1, 2003 as "block seat arrangement" where Garuda can sell 60 seats of MH per flight to its passenger on Kuala Lumpur - London v.v. and Kuala Lumpur Darwin v.v, while MH can sell 35 seats of GA per flight to its passenger on Denpasar - Darwin v.v.

Previously, Garuda and MH have been working on Jakarta - Kuala Lumpur v.v, Surabaya - Kuala Lumpur v.v, Denpasar - Kuala Lumpur v.v, Kuala Lumpur - Medan v.v, and Penang - Medan v.v.


Nice retro in-flight mags

JAdi takut naik pesawat...............


www.astaga.com

Warta Nasional
Kecelakaan Pesawat Lion Air di Solo
Jumlah Korban Tewas 26 Orang
01 Des 2004 17:27 WIB

Astaga!Warta-Jumlah korban tewas akibat tergelincirnya pesawat MD 82 JT 0538 di bandara Adi Sumarmo, Solo, Selasa pukul 18:15 WIB dipastikan sebanyak 26 orang tewas. Demikian penjelasan Manajer Humas Lion Air Hasyim Arsal Al Habsi kepada pers, Rabu (1/12) di Jakarta.

"Dari jumlah itu satu orang belum bisa diidentifikasi. Data ini kami peroleh dari laporan resmi yang dihimpun petugas Lion Air dan pihak terkait dari beberapa Rumah Sakit di Solo," kata Hasyim Arsal Al Habsi.

Dijelaskan oleh Hasyim, jumlah total penumpang pesawat tersebut sebanyak 163 orang dengan rincian 140 dewasa, lima anak-anak, 10 balita termasuk delapan orang kru.

Korban luka luka dalam insiden tersebut mencapai 60 orang. Sedangkan Kapten Pilot Dwi Mawastoro jasadnya baru ditemukan disekitar pesawat sekitar pukul 07:35 WIB.

Pria kelahiran 10 Juni 1972, yang mengantongi 5.800 jam terbang ini merupakan lulusan dari sebuah Akademi di Shanghai Cina. Sedangkan Co Pilot, Steven Liesdek yang merupakan warga negara Belanda, kondisinya saat ini dirawat di ICU salah satu rumah sakit di Solo.

Sedangkan, mekanik Teguh Purwanto dan seorang Pramugari Dewi Suryani dipastikan tewas. Pramugari lain yang mengalami luka dan harus menjalani perawatan di ICU adalah Eva Novianti, Herlina Sofia, Laura Lazarus dan Karlina Hurst.

Komite Nasional Keselamatan Transportasi (KNKT) yang saat ini sudah berada di lokasi, masih mencari penyebab kecelakaan tersebut, dari kotak hitam yang telah ditemukan.

"Saat ini dugaan kuat penyebab kecelakaan ini adalah cuaca yang sangat buruk yang terjadi secara simultan dengan puncak beberapa detik setelah pesawat landing yang ditandai dorongan angin dari arah ekor yang sangat kuat." jelas Hasyim.(esb)

Lion Air uses old airplanes (ex-Garuda) 1982!!! And I heard that old crack planes fly for 100 routes. Hiyyyy...syerem!

I wonder about londoh one of indonesian forumer from solo, he likes to travel around indonesia using lion air?
I hope he can tell us the story of heavy rain lead to accident or perhaps the age of airplane bcoz they were too old used by lion air.

we gotta doubt safety from lion air.look at that,using some old 80's plane.never go with the cheap flights.safety comes first!

it was Lion air bad luck i think....cos many other planes "tergelincir" lately.... at the same day with lion tragedy, bouraq's plane also "tergelincir" in makassar(20 meters from the runway while Lion is 200 meters..). and in the next day, Indon Navy's F-16 also "tergelincir"( only 2 meters from the runway ).....

Hi Nusantara,
I was travelling for 10 days indeed, but in the old fashioned way, from Solo by bus to Cilacap, then by bus to Tasikmalaya from Tasik I took the Lodaya train to Yogya yesterday and after meeting some expat friends I went by taxi to Solo. The main reason for this crash was very bad wheater, it is the beginning of the rainy season so lots of rain.

The planes from Jakarta have to fly near the Merapi vulcano, and in the afternoon the wheather can be terrible there. I have may flown about 15 times from Jakarta to Solo and often seen near Merapi the passengers with chalkwhite faces praying to Allah, I always pray the pilot doesn't think this way. The plane landed too far on the strip and because of hydroplaning could not break and went 500 meters over the landing stripthrough the fences into a cementary. There were heavy rains, lightning and tailwind. Actually the Solo Airport landing strip is very good, quite new, 2,6 km long, 45 meters wide, fairly big planes can use the airport. maybe 10 years old because they use it for Haji transportation. What furansizuka is saying about the planes is pure nonsense. The Lion Air planes come from the Americas, all the notifications inside are in Spanish and English so they might have been used South/Central America. These MD-82 Lion Air uses are build between 1982 and 1992, not too old for these planes, as they are top class products build for a long life if the mantainance is OK. Garuda never used MD-82, they had a few MD-11 till some years ago. Lion leased the first plane 3 years ago, and when they receive these one can be sure they are in top condition. The age of a plane is also not measured in years but in flying hours. If a plane is used for 3-4 flights a day it is actually in the air for 5 hours or so. These planes are not used in the West anymore because they give more polution than is allowed by law. So it was an accident, no use for crazy speculation.

What could have happened
Lion Air Crash

STRONG winds and a wet runway could have caused the Lion Air plane to skid off the runway in the Solo airport yesterday.

The plane could have been thrown off by a sudden change in wind speed and direction before landing, an aviation pilot told The New Paper this morning.

Known as wind shear, the unexpected - and drastic - changes in wind direction could have pushed the plane forward during landing.

If the pilot had been caught unaware or braked too hard during the landing, the aircraft would skid.

Wind shear happens when the plane is at a low altitude, especially when it is approaching the runway.

Another possible reason for the crash could have been due to crosswinds.

That's when strong winds cross the runway and push the plane laterally to the left or right side, away from the centreline of the runway.

A third possible reason is a strong tailwind, when the wind comes from the back of the plane, greatly affecting landing speed.

This affects the braking distance.

The fourth factor contributing to the crash is the wet runway, which can cause the aircraft to skid and lose control.

There are several things a pilot can do to combat the unfavourable conditions.

They can fly into the wind, which is the standard procedure, and approach the runway at an angle to control the crosswinds before touchdown.

If a pilot knows he can't control the plane, he can abort landing as long as the plane still airborne.

But once the aircraft has touched the runway, it's impossible. - RIANA ZAKIR

Good hearing your explanation londoh,
I noticed america made always come with english and spanish it does not mean it is being used in south/central america. It just the way it is, ithink it is bcoz large chunk of hispanic population in america.

Londoh, how's about the pilot, i recalled you have story with spanish pilot who get mad bcoz the plane was delayed so he just go stright forward from jakarta to solo not going the usual route. you described him as crazy pilot. so perhaps this pilot also in a hurry not waiting for the clear weather before land the plane or too much confidence want to show off to a lot of indonesian beautiful female aircrew that he is a cowboy can land the plane in the bad weather.

Most ppl who died in the Lion Air r ones who sit in the front n ppl who sit in the back but released their seatbelt during landing. I saw ppl who were going out of the plane without any scratch carrying their bags in the TV

Hi Nusantara,

If the pilots name had been Pedro or Juan I should have known what happened, but his name was Dwi Mawastro, the co-pilot was Dutch. Spanish people have a lot of temperament, when I saw that pilot being angry, playing the Spanish Jago (or Bull ? ) at nice small&beautifull Indonesian pramugari I had to laugh, as I know this does not work in Indo, as soon you turn your back they start to laugh. An angry Barat is like ketoprak humor to them.

In "Kompas" of today they write that the plane landed in the middle (on 1200-1300 meter) of the landing strip, that is too far as they need 1700-1800 meter to brake, the strip is 2600 meters long. When the plane crashed into the cementary one machine kept running so must have been terrible noisy. The investigation learned that one spoiler still was closed, so might be also a mechanical problem. But the investigation was done by an Indonesian team, I think it takes a lot of knowledge and experience to say if a spoiler was closed or not after a crash, the info will be in the Black Box

The box is sent to the US right?

Investigation of these Black Boxes is always done in the US.

there r another countries also can do this. it will take about a half or even a year to complete the investigation...and it needs lots of money

Here some links abt Black Boxes, which are actual orange (those for aircraft)

How they work

A site from a producer of aviation recorders

What is a black box ??

Abt aviation accidents and safety

Planecrash info

Interesting infos Londoh! Anyone here knows why the called it the black box though it is orange?

Hi Mama,

On one of the above mentioned sites one can read:

A black box is any device, sometimes highly important, whose workings are not understood by or accessible to its user. Perhaps because the metaphor is broadly applicable, black box is sometimes used to refer to anything that works without its inner workings being understood or accessible for understanding.

So the word Black stands not for a colour. The black boxes of aircraft are orange because it's easier to spot at the bottom of the sea and other difficult places.

Yes, I only knew the black box is orange when I saw it in the TV. Interesting.....^^
I heard that a Garuda plane accident's investigation that happened in 1997 was finished this year. It took 7yrs to complete it.

7 years ......that long......wow.......

sekarang ada maskapai baru...Wings Air.... anak perusahaannya Lion Air. kabarnya mereka bakal jual tiket seharga Rp. 88.000,- tapi ngeri kalau liat pesawatnya......sdh tua.
Kemaren ada tamu dari Ghuang Zhou sama Henan ke sini, mereka pulangnya naik Winngs Air ke Jakarta....... padahal tu tamu Presdir di tempat asalnya tapi mau juga naik pesawat gitu.

How do you know a pesawat is "sudah tua" ? Age of an aircraft says nothing, the age of a plane is counted in flying hours and not according to the year of production.

In the USA many planes which are not used are stored in the desert, because it is very dry there, these planes have no user at the moment, the planes from LION AIR are from this stock. Every 4/5 years an Airplane is broken down into pieces and build up again, a plane is like new again then. In my opinion flying is he safest way of transport in Indonesia, dari pada bis PATAS malam dengan sopir seperti koboi ato beca, a member of the "mafia 3-roda" who never heard of traffic rules, and only thinks: the fastest wayfrom a to b is a straight line

Of course, i totally agree!!
Hmm yea, i dont get good impresions by those old flying birds (eg. 732, MD-82, etc) though. Maskapai in Indonesia (except Garuda) should consider buying newer aircrafts! What happened to those planes stored in the desert?? do some part rusted?

I have flown hundreds of times in Indonesia and have rarely met things that were "too much". One time with a Jatayu flight to Batam there were strange noises coming from under the floor, like a few things needed some oil badly, another time with a Garuda flight from Batam the front window broke right after taking off, so it had to fly back. Sometimes they land a little bit to rough, but that can happen, nice to have a boneshaker My nicest experiences were when flying in Papua province, with more than 30 year old Merpati Twin Otters, this is real flying according to me, 17 people cramped in children size seats together with lots of barang. I remember the airfield at Serui, which is even too bad to play soccer. These Merpati pilots are very experienced bush flyers, I rather have a good pilot in an old plane than a new plane with a pilot who is still learning how he has to handle the plane, which is different than a beca. The desert is a perfect place to store planes. There must be photo's on the internet of these places in the desert, very impressive to see hundreds of planes waiting to be used (in Indonesia?) again. There are too much planes in the world, especially the older ones, which cannot be used in the USA and Europe because of regulations according pollution. That is why they can be used cheaply in countries like Indonesia. People have to be happy with that, if you know how many train and car accidents happen on Java with 10-20 people dead, but when an airplane crashes everybody panicks, very strange.

Photo's of airplane storage

one

One more

And another one

Jatayu used 727 dont they? i saw some pics on the net and some of them have american airline style livery. pic
How did the window broke??? thats so horifying. if it happened at high altitude you would have been sucked out the plane londoh! did u have some time to put you head out of the window?? lol

here some pics of deser planes
pic1
pic2

The Jatayu plane was a 737 painted in the most eye-hurting pink I have ever seen, and so were the uniforms of the stewardesses.

The window that broke on that Garudaflight was the front window in the cockpit, so none of the passengers remarked anything it also happened during take off, maybe a collusion with a big bird or so

Geez, was the pilot and copilot alright then?? that must have been a big fat bird i believe. how come it wasnt on the news or maybe it was but i didnt know, hahaha.

the bird must be massive...

Because it is no news, like a car with a flat tire, one never hears of that.

haha i mean like its a uniqe thing that happened isnt it? btw glad to hear that you all safe!

Actually when a thing like this happens they won't tell the passengers, only afterwards one hears this news, so no need for cheap thrills. Actually I don't know what scare or panic is, I am quite cool. One time I flew with Air Lanka (in a nice Lockheed TriStar foto) from Abu Dhabi to Colombo whem the plane entered a heavy turbulance, just when they were serving food and drinks on board, what a mess that was. The Sri Lankan woman sitting next to me really panicked, she grabbed my shirt and started to shout and to cry, that is not so nice when one sees other people acting like that as they don't listen anymore, a nasty situation when something really happens. When I fly to Amsterdam sometimes people also get scared, in the Nethetlands it can be very windy and an airplane has to turn and turn to find the right angle to land (Schiphol Airport has 5 runways for different winddirections) A Boeing 747-400 departs from Singapore with lots of fuel (240.000 litres) but when it arrives near Amsterdam most of this fuel is used so the plane is much lighter, it sometimes moves like a kite, so it can be quite shaky inside. I like to watch the reactions and faces of other passengers in a situation like that.

Is Mojave desert the one u said used for keeping planes??