QUOTE (Titanium @ Aug 3 2010, 11:59 AM)
Okay and just a second ago you were arguing that Chinese may be distorting history to benefit themselves, now you are in full support of their claims? Not advocating truth or false here, just questioning your agenda.
I didn't mean to say that ALL Chinese history books are fake. Not at all. I meant to say that NOT ALL Chinese books say should be regarded faithful to truth.
Really? Then why was Baekje only known for occupying the Korean peninsula and not known for carving out a major empire like the other nomadic tribes?
Because the first ever written Corean history book (SamGukSaGi: History of Three Kingdoms) was written by descendants of Silla people and that during Goryeo period (even after collapse of Silla people). Although Goryeo claimed its lineage towards Goguryeo, but that was only a strategic slogan to stand against the falling Silla kingdom, and the all political leaders of Goryeo, in fact, come from the Silla region. The founder, WangGeon himself, was a member of the Silla royal family.
In fact, the whole political hegemony of Corea, from Shilla, thru Goryeo, and to Joseon, and up until now, come from the GyeonSangDo region (South Eastern part of the Corean peninsula), the former Silla region, almost ALL of them. And there has been only one single person from the old region of Baekje (now called Jeolla-do) and he is Kim Dae Jung who was the president for five years, 2008-2003. Not a single high commanding politician, except him, came from that old Baekje region. Can you imagine how people in that region have had to suffer for so long years, up till now?
The hostility of WangGeon, founder of Goryeo, against Baekje people is even more dramatic that, at his dying bed, he asked cabinet people around them 'not to ever hire a person from the Jeolla-do (Baekje) region, they are not to be trusted'.
So, the history of Baekje was so much distorted by these Silla people, and at modern times, there are a lot of Coreans questioning the validity of this first and official history book.
In fact, Silla was the weakest country of the three. Goguryeo was a very strong one with major part of its land in Manchuria, not to be destroyed even by a series of whole-scale invasions by China (Sui and Tang). Baekje, on the other hand, changed their survival strategy from horse-riders (in Manchuria) to sea people (escaping the threat by Goguryeo) for trade in the Yellow sea and up to Japanese islands.
Being the weakest, Silla called in Chinese power, Tang, to sack/destroy Baekje first, and then Goguryeo(by Tang later). The SamGukSaGi is written to glorify the greatness of Silla (much fake) and picture Baekje as a negligible country. The Baekje history has never been dealt with fairness in Corea over the last thousand and three hundred years.
That's part of the reason why the records are rare even from Corean books.
People seem to forget that virtually every nomadic tribe that attacked China throughout history also invaded the Korean peninsula.
Yes, they did. But over those periods (Liao, Yuan, Qing), Corea (Goguryeo and Joseon) have been a vassal country of China, and they would regard their old brotherhoods in Manchuria as barbarians just as China did, and wouldn't listen to the horse-riding powers. The governments in the peninsula were so sinocized that they fought against their own bloods.
Mongols and Manchus would invade into Corea (Goryeo and Joseon) but would not kill the kings even though these Corean kings would repeatedly betray them and coalesce backdoors with China. Mongols and Manchus had the sense of brotherhood, but the bastards in the Corean peninsula, the governing political groups, would not.
An even better example are Koreans and Japanese who share obvious linguistic and cultural similarities as well yet again I highly doubt nationalists of either group would ever proudly claim kinship with one another.
Not, of course. For, in a nutshell, Corea now is continuation of Silla whereas Japan now is virtually continuation of Baekje. (Many of Japanese would not like theory, either).
Both Corean official history books and Japanese history books deny their blood lineage, out of mutual hatred and shame. Coreans (Silla-centric view) cannot acknowledge that Baekje was such a vast powerful country, for it had to be Silla that was great. And they claim that they fought for unification, when, in fact, they only betrayed their own blood brother countries with the help of foreign ethnic group China (who has been enemy of Goguryeo and all Corean kingdoms that once existed in Manchuria), the long-time enemy of their own bloodline. What Silla took, after collapse of the other two, is only half of the Corean peninsula, let alone the vast land of Goguryeo in Manchuria.
Baekje, officially, existed from 18BC to 660AD, but already from around 470AD, the emperor was in Japan (Asuka), not in Corea, and there'd be only kings in Gonju, Corean peninsula, and Liaodong peninsula. After collapse at 660AD, not only royal families but also most of Baekje people, if they can, fled (boat people) into Japanese islands to escape from slavery. At 663, the Yamato kingdom (as it is called in Japan; in fact, Baekje's central government) sent over 40,000 troops and 800 ships to revive the fallen Baekje, but only too late and strategically flawed to be sacked by Tang brutally.
In 721, the Japanese empire wrote its first official history book (Nihonshiki) and claimed Japanese people came from the ocean led by a Sun Goddess. They totally deny their lineage back to the continent, because, if they do, they then have to explain why there lost their land in the peninsula and Liaodong. So shameful of them.
And such denial of lineage was also the demand of Tang and Silla, the war winners, to Japan, not to ever try to reclaim its old land in the peninsula or in Liaodong.
And Japan also changed her country name (from Yamato, Wa, Kudara(Japanse name for Kudara) and renamed themselves Nihon, Origin of Sun, for that had been a nickname of themselves because Japan is in the direction of sunrise as seen from Corea or China.
So, yes. Japanese and Coreans share a lot linguistically, culturally, and ethnically, but after all, they were enemies and had to remain as such for over 1300 years.
For a group that is supposedly one of the Horse-Riding nomad club, the Koreans sure did very little expanding throughout history.
True. In this Corean peninsula, there have been only political elites to protect their political power at the expense of their own history, and under protective blessing of a foreign big power, China. The same thing, the two Corean governments now, North and South, cannot exist without blessings of other big powers of their choice or destiny, China and US.
Well any historian will argue that archaeological evidence is vital since it is scientific, it is the backbone of literary evidence. I'll give you an example, there is plenty of written evidence that the Xia dynasty existed in Chinese records but due to the lack of archaelogical evidence, historians and scholars cannot verify it's existence.
I'm not sure whether you're a real professional historian or not. Whether we have to converse in that level of professionalism. But if you'd argue seriously for that, I'd buy that. OK.