Vietnam ended their occupation of Cambodia in 1989. I find this very puzzling. Why did Vietnam leave after staying there for ten years?

Because they have no business there in the beginning. They were only there because the Pol Pot invaded South Vietnam to get back Khmer long lost land.

Vietnam "invaded" Cambodia because they messed with vietnamese border and wanted to claim back their stolen land. The reason we stayed there for that long just to ensure the Chinese-backed Khmer Rouge wouldn't come back (Cambodians probably don't agree with this).

There are a few reasons why we left: vietnames economy suffered heavily during these years. We hadn't even recovered from the Vietnam war and then went into another war, not to mention the war with China. Also, we probably stayed there long enough. There were not many Khmer Rouge left anyway. There were actually some undercover Vietnamese soldiers in Cambodia in case anything happens. My dad was in this war and fortunately he came back otherwise I wouldn't have been born.

Cambodians still hate Vietnamese to date because of this incident and their stolen land. I totally understand.

USSR Collapse is the reason.

The new soviet Government (Mikhail Gorbachev) tell Hanoi for that.

The Soviet left Afghanistan just a Year ago and Cuba Africa and in 1990 the Soviet Union Collapse . In fact Soviet did part in Khmer Rouge attack in 1979 that is because the Khmer rouge get more than 200.000 (1979-89) + Causalities and Vietnam 10.000. The Soviet Claim 62.500 Chinese were killed in 1979 and the Vietnamese suffered less 10.000 (military only)

The Basic Reason because Vietnam still poor in the 90s is basically the USSR collapse so they lost all the economical aid from Easter EU and USSR. North Korea situations is very different get Chinese economical and Military aid in fact the North Korean Support the Chinese in 1979

Toward the late 80, Vietnam planned economy came to a screeching halt because of a series of failed economic policies and economic sanction by the outside world. Hanoi opted for an open door policy known as "Doi Moi", establish tie with the world/UN, US. One of the condition for that to happen is the withdrawal of Vietnam troop from Cambodia.

The PAVN was planing Stay in Cambodia and Laos probably for ever but all the money from the military escorts come from the Soviets Union without USSR aid was impossible stay more time.

The American abandoned the Khmer Rouge 1991 and Chinese in 1993.

In Case the WWIII Soviets plans were Invaded China.




The Plan for the American were used the Chinese like "first" like against the Soviets, in Case of Soviet attack was impossible for China attack so in WWIII PAVN plans were taken Thailand and Burma.

I totally agree with you.

How many more years NATO armed forces have to stay in Aghanistan?
How many more years the US's military should remain in Iraque?
What could have happened if Vietnamese military pulled back right away or within a short period of time?

The job of rebuilding Cambodia from less than scratch is not easy and it did take a lot of time. One of my friends' father was one of so many Vietnamese volunteers who came to Cambodia to help. He was a university professor and trained Cambodian medical students in Vietnamese. Of course those first Cambodian doctors had to learn Vietnamese in order to be able to understand Vietnamese professors and read Vietnamese medical textbooks. Why was it? Post Khmer-Rouge Cambodia lacked all kind of skilled people, including university professors.

Vietnam had never stolen land from Cambodia. It was just because some Khmer kings and rival pretenders to the throne played the dangerous game of calling on Vietnam (or Siem) for help. And besides, you were wrong about the reasons Cambodian hate Vietnamese and seemingly had no clue about the Khmer genocide that cost almost 2 millions Cambodians or 1/4 of the whole population.

I recommend you read some history books about Cambodia such as the following, especially page 21 to 25 regarding how Cambodia shrinking and Vietnam growing.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=wtBkD5CoIM...dia&f=false

because our job to liberate cambodia from the evil pol pot is finished.

The American and Chinese supply the Islam terrorists against the Soviet in Afghanistan this same plan were doing with the terrorist Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese occupation between 1979-86 the last Khmer Rouge element were established inside Thailand with U.S-Chinese help.

After 1986 Mikhail Gorbachev and new USSR government reduced the Economical/Military aid to Socialist Republic of Vietnam in almost Nothing and was making "good" conversations with the American. 1988 were the worst year for the PAVN almost all USSR advisor left Vietnam and economical situation was terrible U.S, China, Thailand, Philippines, Burma and another Asian countries make a anti Vietnamese position and for years during all the 80s demanded the Vietnamese withdrawal but France get a Neutral position the Vietnamese + People's Republic of Kampuchea and Chinese + Anti Vietnamese Factions in Kampuchea negotiated in 1988 the Final PAVN withdrawal.

The Khmer Rouge counter attack the pro Hanoi Government Early the 90s but they were abandoned by the American and Chinese With Vietnam totally destroyed after a lot wars and the USSR over the Khmer Rouge did nothing missing.

In 1993 Vietnamese this time without the USSR like allied Were also forced by the American to Pay money to the American "The War Damage to U.S" that is because some people said U.S lose the Military war but get a total Economical and Diplomatic Victory against Vietnam.

This topic is good
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=221300

a Video if you talking vnmese six 30 min parts missing part 2
http://clip.vn/watch/Nhung-nam-thang-mau-va-hoa-Tap-1,WJtP

I agree.

You Can not compared Cambodia 1979-89 with Iraq (2003-2010)

1) Pol Pot get Chinese Support Saddam were totally alone

2) In Iraq the American do the Invasion with a lot allied Like the British read about the Iraq Multi National Force

3) Vietnam fight in two front against and were outnumbered of troop U.S + UK not they get the Total superiority before the attack.

4) Pol Pot also get U.S aid from Thailand and the CIA (more than 200 millions of U.S dollars)

5) Vietnam was totally destroyed from the Vietnam war the governess used economical resources from rebuilt the country in the Kampuchea Invasion U.S is the 1º Economical Military power today.

6) The Iraqi Surrender at 10.000 killed The Khmer Rouge suffered more than 50.000 causalities in the two first week.


More than $400 million was provided between 1979 and 1982, of which the United States, as part of its Cold War political strategy against communist Vietnam, contributed nearly $100 million.

Meanwhile a sizeable portion of Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge forces regrouped and received a continuous and abundant supply of military equipment from China, channeled across Thailand with the cooperation of the Royal Thai Armed Forces. Along with other armed factions, the Khmer Rouge launched a relentless military campaign against the newly-established People's Republic of Kampuchea state from the refugee camps and from hidden military outposts along the Thai border. Even though the Khmer Rouge was dominant, the non-communist resistance included a number of groups which had formerly been fighting against the Khmer Rouge after 1975. These groups includied Lon Nol-era soldiers —-coalesced in 1979-80 to form the Khmer People's National Liberation Armed Forces (KPNLAF)— which pledged loyalty to former Prime Minister Son Sann, and Moulinaka (Mouvement pour la Libération Nationale du Kampuchea), loyal to Prince Norodom Sihanouk. In 1979, Son Sann formed the Khmer People's National Liberation Front (KPNLF) to lead the political struggle for Cambodia's independence. Prince Sihanouk formed his own organization, FUNCINPEC, and its military arm, the Armée Nationale Sihanoukienne (ANS) in 1981. Fraught with both internal and mutual discord, the non-communist groups opposing the PRK, were never very effective, so that all through the civil war against the KPRAF/CPAF the only seriously organized fighting force against the state was the former Khmer Rouge militia, ironically labelled as the "Resistance". This armed faction would wreak much havoc in Cambodia even after the restoration of the monarchy, well into the 1990s.

Despite the help of the Vietnamese Army, as well as of Soviet, Cuban and Vietnamese advisers, Heng Samrin had only limited success in establishing the PRK regime in the face of the ongoing civil war. Security in some rural areas was tenuous, and major transportation routes were subject to interdiction by sporadic attacks. The presence of Vietnamese throughout the country and their intrusion into Cambodian life contributed to fuel the traditional Cambodian anti-Vietnamese sentiment. Reports of the numbers of Vietnamese in the PRK, both former residents and new immigrants, vary widely with some estimates as high as 1 million.

This map show the Situation Chinese / Vietnamese Boat ppl + Cambodia Invasion + China's Invasion Vietnam attempt



Border incidents between the Khmer Rouge PAVN 1977/78 pre Massive attack


Major PAVN attack in 1979 in Polish


Here we can see some PAVN elements come from Laos


Chinese Map Blue = Khmer Rouge, Red = PAVN


Clearing the Last Khmer Rouge elements (inside Cambodia) the rest get into Thailand like "Refugees" 1979 this same year they taken some places inside Thailand Probably for some days


Here the Vietnamese try numerous attempts to destroyed the Khmer Rouge zones inside Thailand and do a few incursion into Thai territory.







Vietnamese attacks Into Thailand 84/85



It show the Anti Vietnamese Khmer Factions in Thai Border 1979-84 almost all of this zones were eliminated and counter attack the Pro Hanoi Khmer Government early the 90s


Khmer Rouge leader By Pol Pot
KPNLAF = Khmer People's National Liberation Armed Forces leader by Sihanouk
FUNCINPEC were created basically with U.S help

Khmer pro Hanoi army were KPRAF = Kampuchean People's Revolutionary Armed Forces. Today Cambodian Military used equipment donated by the Vietnamese.

PS. Polish made a good things about Indochina's Wars

Cubano, you are a real expert of Vietnamese modern history.
I bow in admiration.

lolz thanks but here the guy with the nick name Lucitez know more than me he is Argentinean
http://guerradevietnam.foros.ws/user.php?u=6

The most units were retired in 1983-85 only important elements stay in Cambodia during 1986-89 whatever Different



Part I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNTmwDC-UfY

Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61hbf9SJda0...=watch_response

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If Vietnam did not visit Cambodia in 1979 and stayed there until 1989, another North Korea would happen in Cambodia. It's better to be proactive and remove the numb-nuts.

Cambodia was worst then north korea about 2million out of 7million wiped out within 4 years imagine another 4 years.

Sure, it's better to be proactive and protect our own interests in our own backyards.

The Mandate of Heaven states that Viets must do whatever is necessary to preserve the peace between the region of Mekong River and the East Sea.

Vietnam must have done something wrong then. Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, singapore didn't have to act like vietnam but still living in peace.

yes peace, we Viet are peace loving people, but for peace we must fight to protect it. There is no reason for we to stay in Cambodia, they are honest people, and i believe they also love peace and want to protect it as much as us.

Thai, Ma, In, Sing is kinda neutral, they always stay of trouble, they may have peace for now, but the peace they have won't last long if they can not protect it when the time comes.

They have been doing well, probably way better than Vietnam. They have some internal conflicts here and there, but every country has some of those. Some might get more than others.

Militarily, they're not far behind Vietnam either. Singapore might be small, but their military is considered to be well equipped and self sufficient. Plus now a day, UN and many Democratic countries can get into any stray dog business. Do you wanna test them?

What a joke. Peace and loving Viet? More like warmongering and inciting conflict among you're neighbors like Laos. I have a feeling that there will be more Viet nationalist creating more hate between our people and it won't be just here in AF. But else where. Just because Lao ppl don't give enough attention to Vietnamese like any other national out there that you people are inciting against with jealously with no logical reason for starting it.

To be honest with you, Thailand/Malaysia/Indonesia/Singare are not located in an important area like Vietnam. That's why Vietnam had to fight for the last two thousand years so Viets can live in peace. I am saying that location wise, Vietnam is more important than Thailand/Malaysia/Indonesia/Singapore combined.

You are free to disagree, but Vietnam is the guarantor of peace for the rest of SEA. Without Vietnam, all you of SEA are Chinese colonies.
They can take all of SEA in a heartbeat had it not been for Vietnam which has always been the eyesore/prick for China's expansion. Like it or not, you're benefiting from us Viets who know how to play the game with China for centuries. Instead of rooting for us, you're wishing for the opposite of peace and a strong defender of SEA.

According to self centered south vietnamese children. "Vietnam is the guarantor of peace for the rest of SEA." Always mis-calculate and having a day dreaming a lot. Are you suggesting that Phillipino, Indonesia, Laos, Burma, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Singapore, Les Timor owe to communist Vietnam. Let me break it down some facts for you, since your history books lie to you.

First Fact
Before western colonialism, non of the SEA countries were Chinese colonies. Now a day, only Singapore is dominated by Han pop. Malaysia and Thailand have substantial Chinese pop, but they're still minority and most of them were not first generation Chinese either. Show us if you disputed?

Second fact
Last time i checked North Vietnam was in the same side with China though. As you can see, they were not even fighting each other, but in love with each others. China and Soviet union supplied must needed materials which unable NVA to unite Vietnam. Without them, we would have free world South Vietnamese govt instead. After the unification, Vietnam decided to turn against China and chose to be on Soviet Union side. Locally, we call those type of people "tripping" or disgraetful and whatever term.

Third fact
Communist Vietnam was the one that threaten the peace in SEA. They sent the troops in to subdue Pol Pot, which understandable, because they have been butchering south vietnamese pop. Then the troops were in Thailand, the goal was to uproot Pol Pot, but also to turn SEA country into Communism.

Fourth Fact
Original member of ASEAN were the one that let Vietnam join the pact, so you can prosper and not staying alone in the cold against China. Many Vietnam investors came from ASEAN members as well as US and so on. As you can see, Vietnam should thanks those original ASEAN countries for bringing peace to the region. Not other ways around.

Do you think Vietnam can stay alone against China without having any friend and allies. I dare Vietnam to isolate themselves and resign from being ASEAN member. To see how your economy and peace in your country would be like.

Really? You're another butt joke that only focus on your small version of history. SEA is much bigger than Vietnam. Burma is on the west, Laos is right in the middle and Vietnam is on the East and Thailand border used to connect with China. Beside from Vietnam, these countries have been battling with Han Chinese for age. Lao/Tai ancestors used to live up north and moving down occupying mon/khmer lands. Burmese captured Dali in Yunnan and retreating later. Take a look at mainland south east asia today. To see if Vienam is the only one bordering with China or not.

STFU, you sound so racism, why do you always mentioning about South, North? we are one now, idiot, we are united as we are in the past no one can seperate us including you.

buddha you failed to see the fact:

first we North Vietnamese don't stay in the same side as china, not anymore, we are a socialist country base on Ho Chi Minh and Marx ideal, they are a Maoism country now. The only one we considered as friend in this world is no longer exist, that is the USSR, who help us a lot in the war for our peace and happiness.

Thanks to Vietnamese struggle against the imperialist of the North, they don't have a chance to look at you guys and don't even have the military power to invade you guys. If it is not for us who have power and military power fight against china for millenium do you think you guys could exist? everytime they want to expand their territory, everytime we fight, when they - the Mongolian want us to help invade Champa and the rest of SEA, we denied and fight against them for the peace of SEA.

btw, you hard core terrorists.. did not realised that and think so high of yerself

you failed to see the fact that we are the heart of SEA, we are the central of SEA:

Learn how to read. I said "North Vietnam and China were in the the same side" Was signifying past tense. Without China and Soviet assistant, South Vietnam probably win the war.

Go get your eyes check. I looked at the map twice, the one right at the center of mainland SEA is Thailand. While Vietnam is located in the East and Burma on the West. The history of South Vietnam and North Vietnam are not the same. But the history of Vietnam is the same after Communist united the country in 1975. Pure fact. too bad if you can not handle the truth.

Facts is that Burmese, Lao, Tai, Vietnamese have been battering Han Chinese for age. Viet were not the only one. Please don't believe that the world is evolved around vietnam, it's not true.

Open your small mind and read other people history book too.


the Great Khan of the Mongol Empire, invaded the Pagan Kingdom of Burma in 1277 and 1283. However, the Yuan armies later again invaded Burma several times in order to assert supremacy over the territory. In 1277 the Burmese, with 80-200 war elephants, had advanced over the border along the high valleys in Baoshan. 700 man Mongol garrison under Khudu was sent to blockade their way with Achang and Gold-tooth tribesmen (speak of 12,000 men). The Mongol horses refused to advance when they saw elephants. Alaungpaya's heirs had temporarily defeated Siam (1767), subdued much of Laos (1765) and defeated four invasions by Qing China (1765–1769).

Despite European pressure, Thailand is the only Southeast Asian nation that has never been colonized. Ram Khamhaeng, an early ruler of the new Thai dynasty in Sukhothai, made himself the agent of Mongol interests, and in 1282-84 eliminated the vestiges of Khmer and Cham power in central Laos. Ramkhamhaeng obtained the allegiance of Muang Sua and the mountainous country to the northeast. Between 1286 and 1297, Panya Khamphong's lieutenants, acting for Ramkhamhaeng and the Mongols, pacified vast territories.

Mongol overlordship was unpopular in Muang Sua present day Luang Prabang, Laos. Internal conflicts among members of the new dynasty over Mongol intervention in their affairs resulted in continuing family upheavals. Panya Khamphong exiled his son Fa Phi Fa and most likely intended to leave the throne to his younger grandson, Fa Ngieo. Fa Ngieo, involved in various coups and coup attempts, in 1330 sent his two sons to a Buddhist monastery outside the Mongol realm for safety. The brothers were kidnapped in 1335 and taken to Angkor, where they were entrusted to King Jayavarman Paramesvara, whose kingdom had acknowledged Mongol suzerainty since 1285.

I heard because maintaining too large an army took a huge strain on the Viet economy.

hi hi, for Viet,

About
Mongol, we have to deal with 500.000+, they tried to invade us, but failed after three times do so, they stand no chance against us.
manchu we have to deal with 200.000+
Song dynasty 100.000+
Ming 200.000+
Han, Shang, Qin, Eastern Han, Southern Han,... 1.000.000+

Beside we also use naval to harass chinese, ryukuuans,..., we also trying to take over some of Ming's iron mine in Yunnan by some conflict and army raid in Le Dynasty.
imagine if it is not for us who made them weaker, would you guy stand a chance?

sorry, South Vietnam is supported by all NATO from New Zealand, Australia, French,... to S.Korea vs Vietnam, USSR. China did help us, but they don't considered us as a friend, and don't really help us much, in fact they have their own matters to worry about.

South Vietnam couldn't really win the war 1-1 with NVA, without NATO it useless, even 1-2 they couldn't win with the help of American only.

Well, this is an overstatement. Vietnam didn't make China weaker, just discouraged them from advancing southward at a faster pace.. We were just roadblock or first hurdle to overcome. All of this was pre-70s history.
In the coming decades, Vietnam will no longer be their hurdle because they can attack any country from the seas with its naval might. Of course they will use the divide and conquer approach, giving some candies to some ASEAN countries to sideline some other countries. Most importantly among other countries is Vietnam of course. Vietnam is the head of SEA. Cutting off the head and the rest of SEA is a headless snake. This does not imply that Vietnam have not benefited from ASEAN or have not been dependent on ASEAN, its just that in the order of importance, Vietnam is the most paramount.

Can ASEAN stand up to China? Not a chance, they are no NATO. It is really the US that stops China. The truth hurts, but all ASEAN countries are clinging to uncle SAM for their survival now.

well if you say so... i believe one day, we are the one that stop U.S.

Let's me repeat. Viets will do whatevever is necessary to protect and preserve the peace of the region between the Mekong River and the East Sea. We will do what is necessary for the long-term peace.

Now, it's up for Burma and Thailand to do the same from the western mainland Southeast Asia.

Yo how long do you think southeast asean countries can last with a all out war with china?

they stand no chance if SEAsian can united, but unfortunately it is not like how we would like to think.

The hating still exist deep in most SEAsian people, instead of Vietnamese.