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pka7
Everything starts from a proposal that demands Guangzhou TV to become a Mandarin channel.
The news made it to yahoo English.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100707/lf_af..._20100707160851
After the revelation of this very proposal, many Cantonese crazily shared the picture of the statue of Yuen Sung Wun 袁崇煥, the legendary Cantonese military commander of Ming Dynasty, in sina micro-blog(Twitter copycat), because there is a sign of his beloved Cantonese slogan - "掉哪媽!頂硬上!" (f*** his mom! Hit the Hard!), under his statue.

People shared it to vent off their anger of this aggressive plan of Mandarin promotion and to support Cantonese.
Yesterday, there were even some young people organized a flash mob in Guangzhou to support Cantonese and oppose Mandarin promotion.

The banner means"Cantonese take off. Mandarin f*** off"



Today, Nan Fang Daily reported that the sign of Yuen Sung Wun's slogan was taken away[!


http://gcontent.oeeee.com/1/93/193002e6687...031/18ba1e.html

Mid-Night_Sun
i heard from one person that people in canton speak more mandarin now anyway. i actually didnt think they would be upset.
zombie
QUOTE
Adopting China's official language, also known as Putonghua, would promote unity, "forge a good language environment" and cater to non-Cantonese-speaking Chinese visitors at the huge sporting event, authorities were quoted as saying.


How retarded are these idiots. How long will it take them to realize that banning and supressing the native languages of people won't promote "unity" but instead cause resentment? Honestly, this feels like a concept that even 12 year olds would understand.

Why can't they appreciate the diversity and variety in the Han culture (and all other cultures for that matter)? Making Mandarin the national language is fine since it allows everyone to communicate, but trying to suppress other dialects is totally unnecessary.
millersdude
No cities in China have their own local language TV channels. Why Guangzhou should be different? Can you imagine you are in Shanghai and they have their TV channels broadcasted in Shanghaiese? Especially now more than half of the Guangzhou population consists of people from other regions in China. Understanding the local broadcasting TV is a problem for them. Before the government doesnít really care about the Cantonese TV channels, but now with enough people complain they are not able to understand the local TV broadcasting, I guess the government has to do something about it. In China, Mandarin is the official spoken language. The government has tried to enforce the standards across China since they adopt it. Otherwise people in China will not be to communicate with others. There are hundreds different spoken languages in China if not thousands. Every 50 mile, people have their own local languages.
tianya
I always think if u can not 入乡随俗, why not just stay at ur hometown?
BTW I also supported other cities in china open its own dialect TV program, including Beijingese(they can use as much R as they like in their own dialect TV program icon_smile.gif )
millersdude
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Jul 13 2010, 07:45 AM) *
i heard from one person that people in canton speak more mandarin now anyway. i actually didnt think they would be upset.


Yes, most Cantonese donít really care about it. No one watch Guangzhou TV channels anyway. The programming is bad. Why do they watch it when they have TVB channels from Hong Kong? It beats Guangzhou TV channels any day. Most of Guangzhou TV channel prime programs are TVB TV series anyway.
tianya
^
Have u ever been to Guangdong? embarassedlaugh.gif
SoCal
Is the population of Cantonese people at least 100 million?

confused.gif confused.gif
Titanium
QUOTE (zombie @ Jul 13 2010, 08:18 AM) *
Making Mandarin the national language is fine since it allows everyone to communicate, but trying to suppress other dialects is totally unnecessary.


THIS
millersdude
QUOTE (tianya @ Jul 13 2010, 10:28 AM) *
^
Have u ever been to Guangdong? embarassedlaugh.gif


Yes, I went to Guangdong several years ago. I went with my friends and visited their relatives in Guangdong. Some of their relatives have cable TV. I turned the TV on and surfed the cable. I found there were 64 cable TV channels and most of them spoke in Mandarin dialect. When I turned to Guangzhou TV channels, I found they spoke Cantonese and had TVB TV series on, which was no surprise. It is the same as Taiwan. Most of Taiwanese cable TV channels are in Mandarin. Couple of them are in another dialects, which I donít quite understand. I think it is probably Hokenese or others.
DevineCarrier
ok
tianya
QUOTE (millersdude @ Jul 13 2010, 11:20 AM) *
Yes, I went to Guangdong several years ago. I went with my friends and visited their relatives in Guangdong. Some of their relatives have cable TV. I turned the TV on and surfed the cable. I found there were 64 cable TV channels and most of them spoke in Mandarin dialect. When I turned to Guangzhou TV channels, I found they spoke Cantonese and had TVB TV series on, which was no surprise. It is the same as Taiwan. Most of Taiwanese cable TV channels are in Mandarin. Couple of them are in another dialects, which I donít quite understand. I think it is probably Hokenese or others.


So as I have pointed, it is not Guangzhou's false but other province also should promote its own dialect.
I think 64 channel is enough for those mandarin speakers. Why not give some space for those locals?
Stop speaking for Guangzhou locals.
GunNRoses
can a TV channel affects so much to the extent of extincting the local dialect ?
i think the problem lies more on the mandarin speakign immigrants to guongdong rather than what language they speak on that channel
i dont mean to offend the mandarin speakers but i heard guongdong begun to speak more mandarin now because of the mass immigration from the north


by the way i heard this has nothing to do with the central government its just the local guongzhou governmetn that want to lick the @$$ of beijing
InitialDJay
lol why can't they have both mandarin and cantonese on prime time so if ppl want to listen to cantonese, then go to cantonese channel or mandarin, then go to mandarin.
MiCC
Should let the guangzhou people vote for it, oh wait durr china is communist lol
Titanium
Cantonese nor any Chinese dialect will ever die so long as it spoken at home or the local social level........Guangzhou channels can be broadcasted in Mandarin (Not surprising since it is China's official language) but as long as it's spoken at the social level, it shouldn't be too big of a deal.
Titanium
Then again

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0071306848.html
bear11
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90...72/7057017.html

"Guangzhou TV always sticks to dual language broadcasting," said Zeng Zhi, director of the editors' office at the station. "We serve two audiences who speak either Mandarin or Cantonese and do not intend to abandon either of them."
pka7
QUOTE (Titanium @ Jul 14 2010, 12:13 AM) *
Cantonese nor any Chinese dialect will ever die so long as it spoken at home or the local social level........Guangzhou channels can be broadcasted in Mandarin (Not surprising since it is China's official language) but as long as it's spoken at the social level, it shouldn't be too big of a deal.


Cantonese will die if it can't be used side by side with Mandarin in government, workplace and school.
This is how Hong Kong Hakka language dies. Hong Kong Hakka was relegated to a language that could only be spoken at home or among Hakka villages.
Grandparents: speak only Hakka/speak Cantonese and Hakka
Son: speak Cantonese and Hakka but he only uses Hakka when he talks with Hakka people.
Grandchild: Cantonese only/speak little Hakka
Also, the Hong Kong government did not actively suppress Hakka.
A language can be extinct in just 3 generations.

Look at overseas Chinese.
1st generation immigrant: speak Chinese languages and learn English
2nd generation: Speak English most of the time and only uses Chinese languages at home
3rd generation: Speak English only.



There are so many Mandarin channels, why can't give Cantonese some space?
Because they want to wipe out Cantonese.
pka7
QUOTE (GunNRoses @ Jul 13 2010, 10:13 PM) *
can a TV channel affects so much to the extent of extincting the local dialect ?
i think the problem lies more on the mandarin speakign immigrants to guongdong rather than what language they speak on that channel
i dont mean to offend the mandarin speakers but i heard guongdong begun to speak more mandarin now because of the mass immigration from the north


by the way i heard this has nothing to do with the central government its just the local guongzhou governmetn that want to lick the @$$ of beijing



It is like a landslide.
Who knows they won't take over Cantonese channels one by one until there is no Cantonese channel?
Don't tell me that the answer is TVB. In recent years, 50% of HK newborn is from China.
GunNRoses
QUOTE (pka7 @ Jul 14 2010, 12:47 PM) *
It is like a landslide.
Who knows they won't take over Cantonese channels one by one until there is no Cantonese channel?
Don't tell me that the answer is TVB. In recent years, 50% of HK newborn is from China.


huh? TVB changing into mandarin broadcasting channel?
its not even possible. hong kong is different from guogzhou since most of the hong kong people can hardly speak any mandarin, we are only able to guess about what they say. btu as for guogndong, its their certain school subject and its been practiced for decades.
most of mainland cantonese can speak decent mandarin therefore the north immigants in gongzhou dotn even need to bother to learn the local dialect in order to communcate with the mainland cantonese, but in hong kong its different, they have to leanr cantonese to communicate with us since our mandarin are very limited.
plus, TVB already have the seperated channels broadcasting in cantonese, mandarin ( tvb8 or something ) and english ( pearl )

anyway, the main threat to the cantonese language in gongzhou is the immigrants from the north
for example. a cantonese+mandarin couple, they will defintedly be communicting in mandarin rather than cantonese, since only one of them can speak cantonese but meanwhile both can speak mandarin and their future offspring would most likely be taught in speaking mandarin as well considering mandarin is much more important for their future career and plus that is the only language for their parents communication so they will defintedly speakmore mandarin at home than cantonese( or no cantonese at all )

sorry, i have no offense to the brothers from the north, but that is the reality of problem to the cantonese lanuage - the language of the mass immigrants speak in guongdong can threaten the existence of cantonese dialect. not saying the problem of the people

did someone say guognzhou is the only place in china with its own dialect speak channel? but other chian provinces seem ok in presrving their dialects ealthough they dont have their own dialect speakign channel? im nto sure how factual these infroamtiosn are because i dont live in china
GunNRoses
QUOTE (pka7 @ Jul 13 2010, 05:47 AM) *



by the way, if you are vietnamese, please stay out of our business.
our cantonese culture have nothing to do with vietnamese

thanks
pka7
QUOTE (GunNRoses @ Jul 14 2010, 01:57 PM) *
by the way, if you are vietnamese, please stay out of our business.
our cantonese culture have nothing to do with vietnamese

thanks


oh, how should I prove that I'm a Cantonese from HK?

Is that enough?
You're very funny.



Even if I were a "Vietnamese", it was not wrong for me to care about a language that is being wiped out.
pka7
I don't see the future of Cantonese in HK.
HKer is terrible money animal that can give up anything for money.
Also, Hong Kong can't control her own immigration policy and non
Cantonese speaking immigrants are taking over HK.
Besides, TVB is now a pro-Beijng channel that people nicknamed it "CCTVB".
TVB is just another business and businessmen obey the Central government,
not even Google can escape from their barbarian policies. TVB pearl is more like a Mandarin channel now...
TMM
This is a mere proposal and nothing have happened...no bans ...nothing...I don't see why you overacting like this, if anyone it should be those with only a few million speaker that should be worry. Cantonese however is safer than most other dialects. I don't see Cantonese or Hokkien fading in the future, not sure about others tho.
togepi
QUOTE (pka7 @ Jul 14 2010, 06:04 PM) *
oh, how should I prove that I'm a Cantonese from HK?

Is that enough?
You're very funny.



Even if I were a "Vietnamese", it was not wrong for me to care about a language that is being wiped out.

Colony icon_smile.gif embarassedlaugh.gif
FrenchVanillaNYC
Don't most Chinese networks use subtitles for their programming anyway? Why can't non-Cantonese speakers just be happy with reading the words at the bottom?
Mid-Night_Sun
QUOTE (TMM @ Jul 14 2010, 10:49 PM) *
This is a mere proposal and nothing have happened...no bans ...nothing...I don't see why you overacting like this, if anyone it should be those with only a few million speaker that should be worry. Cantonese however is safer than most other dialects. I don't see Cantonese or Hokkien fading in the future, not sure about others tho.


its true, there isnt any active policy, for now, that is doing anything.

but this is a serious issue for HKers because we see what is happening in Canton. its even more complicated because of this


"Last year, 28,000 Hong Kong men tied the knot with mainland women, an 80% increase since 2001, while 6,500 women chose a mainland partner. All told, 35% of the marriages registered in Hong Kong involved a mainland spouse."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/IH09Ad02.html


"which is well below the replacement level of 2.1. and expected to remain low in the
future while life expectancy (79.5 for males and 85.6 for females in 2006) continues
to rise (projected to reach 82.7 for males and 88.3 for females in 2036), resulting in an
ageing population and increasing elderly dependency ratio (168 per 1000 in 2006, but
expected to reach 425 per 1,000 people in 2036). This highlights the importance of
the significant fraction of births in Hong Kong to Mainland mothers (around 40%),
many of whom (over 30%) have Hong Kong permanent resident husbands. Crossboundary
marriages are also important in terms of finding spouses for many Hong
Kong residents."

"Cross-boundary marriages have become an increasingly important element in
marriages involving Hong Kong residents (almost 35,000 in 2006 versus 29,000 other
marriages in Hong Kong). The marriages are increasingly taking place in Hong Kong
so over 53% of the registered marriages in Hong Kong involved a mainland spouse in
2008. This provides an opportunity for both men and women in Hong Kong to find
spouses, particularly for those who have difficulty finding someone with similar
educational background.
Cross-boundary births have also become increasingly important and births in Hong
Kong to Mainland mothers and Hong Kong fathers now represent 25% of births in
Hong Kong with Hong Kong fathers. Because these children are born in Hong Kong,
they already have Hong Kong Permanent Resident (HKPR) status and do not need to
use OWP quota."

http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr08-09/english/hc...b2-1116-2-e.pdf


in all likelihood, the hk spouse's mandarin is going to be better than the mainland spouse's cantonese. so their family life is probably going to be speaking mandarin. (as someone already mention) to be frank, the ability to absorb and assimilate so many mainlanders and half mainlander is not something we are optimistic about.

if it was just a small percentage, of course its no problem. but since its so large, they could have mando groups in the places where typically HK would assimilate someone. like school for example. they wouldnt be as pressured to assimilate. this is true all over the world when you have a large minority community.


im not sure what HK can do about it.

they try some things
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=231943

but its hands are tied when it comes to dealing with mainland. options are very limited. HK wont be the only ones facing this issue though in the future as more and more mainland immigrants go everywhere.
pawulkawk1
Mid-Night_Sun:

You see..this thread is a classic example of HKers working together in "troop" if you didn't know what I meant before:) Which explains why such survey you mentioned before done by HKers can be faked by the participants. The truth is marrying a white in HK is considered is looked up on highly by society.

And no I not butthurt. lol
Mid-Night_Sun
the truth is same as before, you are just throwing statements out there. nobody is working together here, its just opinions. even if there was "troop" working, it has nothing to do with white people.

get off our nuts and stop obsessing. the only one who looks up to white people is you. that is the only thing you have proven with your posts. realize that.
BurdenOfAges
Because most people in the world are mono-lingual, the promotion of Mandarin in relation to Cantonese is a zero-sum game. Ultimately, one language will fall into decline, and in this case it will be Cantonese.

That is not to say Cantonese will go extinct. It will continue to be spoken, but gradually it will move in the direction of Mandarin, as the original non-Sinitic languages of the native south became Sinitic overtime, and as the various European languages are becoming more Anglic. This occurred not because governments actively suppressed native languages, but simply because of the opportunity benefits associated with speaking the "lingua franca," and people's natural propensity towards being mono-lingual.

There is one caveat to this argument: technology could potentially stave off the decline of native languages through more effective translation software, which would obviate the need to learn the lingua franca. Of course, true translation is AI-complete - a problem which, if solved, would solve all of human intelligence.
bear11
Guangdong has three dialests, in central is Cantonese, in the north is Teochew(Chaoshan region) and standard Hakka dialect.

QUOTE (SoCal @ Jul 13 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Ultimately, one language will fall into decline,


The same thing happening in Europe with languages like Occitan in southern France, Scottish and Welsh in United Kingdom... In Japan, Okinawan and Ainu language are extinct.
BurdenOfAges
QUOTE (FrenchVanillaNYC @ Jul 15 2010, 10:19 AM) *
Don't most Chinese networks use subtitles for their programming anyway? Why can't non-Cantonese speakers just be happy with reading the words at the bottom?


It's the same rationale as used by opponents of bilingualism in the US - why should Americans have to read subtitles when they travel to a different part of the country? Isn't it a single country?

Language is a basic aspect of identity, and has profound implications for politics. A country can be inclusively multi-lingual - in which there exists a lingua franca that everyone speaks but also various regional languages - but it cannot be exclusively multi-lingual - in which regional languages are promoted at the expense of the lingua franca. The latter case almost inevitably leads to segregation and fragmentation if the various linguistic communities are of sufficient size to claim autonomy. There is nothing peculiar about this. People can only form communities with people they can communicate with, and a nation is a sort of community formed by mass communication.
tianya
^
Could viets and koreans leave this topic?
LacKuma
QUOTE (tianya @ Jul 16 2010, 04:36 AM) *
^
Could viets and koreans leave this topic?

Sorry, but I'm a Viet and I have to intervene. I would like to add a language to this discussion: Teo Chiew or Chaozhou hua.

I heard that it's the oldest dialect of Chinese.


To pka7: 2 generations is enough to kill a language:

Grandpa - Speaks Teo Chiew, little vietnamese with chinese accent
Mom - Speaks Viet 100%, understands only a little bit of Teo Chiew (I doubt if she can still remember what Teo Chiew sounds like)
Me- Speaks Viet 100% - understands no Teo Chiew

Teo Chiew accent of mainland China is rapidly assimilating into the mainstream dialect (standard guanhua). Too late to do anything to save this dialect.
tianya
QUOTE (LacKuma @ Jul 16 2010, 09:35 AM) *
Sorry, but I'm a Viet and I have to intervene. I would like to add a language to this discussion: Teo Chiew or Chaozhou hua.

I heard that it's the oldest dialect of Chinese.


To pka7: 2 generations is enough to kill a language:

Grandpa - Speaks Teo Chiew, little vietnamese with chinese accent
Mom - Speaks Viet 100%, understands only a little bit of Teo Chiew (I doubt if she can still remember what Teo Chiew sounds like)
Me- Speaks Viet 100% - understands no Teo Chiew

Teo Chiew accent of mainland China is rapidly assimilating into the mainstream dialect (standard guanhua). Too late to do anything to save this dialect.


Its ur Mum decide to give up her chinese identity. So please be a proud viet and leave this thread, could u?
LacKuma
Fine, whatever u say. I'll just spectate.
tianya
^
then u should shut up from the beginning.
Thanks a lot. embarassedlaugh.gif


btw I hope ur decendents can keep ur own language. embarassedlaugh.gif
GunNRoses
QUOTE (BurdenOfAges @ Jul 15 2010, 11:57 PM) *
Because most people in the world are mono-lingual, the promotion of Mandarin in relation to Cantonese is a zero-sum game. Ultimately, one language will fall into decline, and in this case it will be Cantonese.

That is not to say Cantonese will go extinct. It will continue to be spoken, but gradually it will move in the direction of Mandarin, as the original non-Sinitic languages of the native south became Sinitic overtime, and as the various European languages are becoming more Anglic. This occurred not because governments actively suppressed native languages, but simply because of the opportunity benefits associated with speaking the "lingua franca," and people's natural propensity towards being mono-lingual.

There is one caveat to this argument: technology could potentially stave off the decline of native languages through more effective translation software, which would obviate the need to learn the lingua franca. Of course, true translation is AI-complete - a problem which, if solved, would solve all of human intelligence.



get your fact right. cantonese is much more ancinet than mandarin is with a lot of ancien tones preserved
what do you mean by south native became sinitic overtime ? if you dont know jack about our history then better keep quiet and stop prteneedign to be an expert

cantonese is basically the language of tang which can rhyme better in the tang poetry than any other chinese dialects with a lot of missing tones of the ancinet han language
im really annoyed and disgusted by your fake knowledge

be honest, are you even chinese? i been observing you for a while now. you talk like foreginer who pretend to knows a lot of chinese history
only oversea asian and other asian will believe your imaginative fake infromations
Titanium
Like I said, as long as Chinese dialects are spoken at home, it won't die......however replacing local dialects (In this case Cantonese) for Mandarin is undoubtedly a huge blow.
TMM
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Jul 15 2010, 10:37 AM) *
in all likelihood, the hk spouse's mandarin is going to be better than the mainland spouse's cantonese. so their family life is probably going to be speaking mandarin. (as someone already mention) to be frank, the ability to absorb and assimilate so many mainlanders and half mainlander is not something we are optimistic about.

if it was just a small percentage, of course its no problem. but since its so large, they could have mando groups in the places where typically HK would assimilate someone. like school for example. they wouldnt be as pressured to assimilate. this is true all over the world when you have a large minority community.

but its hands are tied when it comes to dealing with mainland. options are very limited. HK wont be the only ones facing this issue though in the future as more and more mainland immigrants go everywhere.


As sad as it may sound, it's a process of any developed society in terms of marriage. In a developed society, women tend to be more independent, self sufficient and not to mention overly materialistic now, thus causing men to seek other options. Same thing is happening in Taiwan and S.Korea as many of the men imported wives from SEA or even China. But you shouldn't worry too much as Cantonese is still the official Chinese in HK, and majority still speaks Cantonese so i don't see how these mainland-hk offspring will able to survive without a bit of Cantonese. The Cantonese tv programs and other sort of stuff should have effects on those offspring.

I'll tell you my case, my cousins was born in Guangdong, rather than their native province and got assimilated with the surrounding there, even their family, my uncles and aunties can speak Cantonese well but they know their native tongue since they came from Fujian. Their children however sucks in Fujianese but excel in Cantonese and they are still in elementary schools which teaches Mandarin. I may be worry at times but it's a process and forcing them to learn Fujianese isn't a good way...too much pressure..ya know? But that's that. icon_neutral.gif
Mid-Night_Sun
the thing is would they have learned cantonese if they were in a fujianese community. there are going to be huge groups of at least half mando soon.


anyway, heres an update:


Provincial officials in defence of Cantonese
Guangdong to boost local cultural heritage


Ivan Zhai
Jul 17, 2010
Email to friend Print a copy Bookmark and Share

Debate over the future of Cantonese in Guangdong and the perceived threat from Putonghua has intensified, with officials and influential figures saying that the local culture and dialect should be respected.

Guangzhou residents are taking the initiative to protect their mother tongue, with a call for people to gather next Sunday and recite Cantonese - a subtle form of protest - winning widespread support.

Against this background, top provincial leaders started a two-day meeting yesterday to discuss "cultural development in Guangdong", a propaganda department official said.

It's a development that underlines the significance of regional tensions on the mainland and anger at edicts from Beijing seen to undermine local culture.

The official said the government would release a policy outline and new regulations afterwards to boost "Cantonese cultural heritage".

The authorities also plan to hold a public forum, the official said, describing it as "one of the hottest topics that have grabbed our leaders' attention".

The forum, also scheduled to take place next Sunday, will be organised jointly by the general office of the Guangdong government, the provincial Development and Reform Commission and the propaganda department. Scholars, teachers, students and businesspeople will all be invited to attend.

"Of course we will discuss how to protect Cantonese at the forum. This is such a hot topic recently," the official said, and noted that even provincial party secretary Wang Yang had spoken out on the issue earlier this month. Wang was said to have pledged that "we won't let Cantonese culture die in our generation".


The spark that set off the debate was a controversial proposal by Guangzhou's political advisory body this month that the provincial capital's main television channel switch programming from Cantonese to Putonghua to make the city a friendlier place for visitors from other provinces during the Asian Games in November.

The idea touched a raw nerve with many residents, who already felt their culture and language was under threat from the central government's promotion of Putonghua and an influx of migrants from other provinces.

Many people complain that Beijing's policy of mandating the use of Putonghua for all formal occasions as well as in schools has marginalised Cantonese - a major Chinese dialect with a long history.

The advisory body proposed the switch even though more than 80 per cent of the 30,000 people who responded to its own survey said they were against the idea.


It has sparked off heated debate throughout the province, with many Guangdong people calling for action to protect their mother tongue. They regard the proposal, together with other, similar policies, as an attempt to suppress local tradition and character. Guangdong people, although part of the Han Chinese family, are proud of their unique heritage and their long history of defiance of central authority.

Many argue Cantonese is a more orthodox and traditional language than Putonghua - previously known as Mandarin - which is a mixture of the northern Chinese dialect, Manchurian and Mongolian.

Prominent public figures have joined in the debate. Flu expert Dr Zhong Nanshan - the mainland's severe acute respiratory syndrome hero and a widely respected Guangdong native - said he strongly opposed the use of Putonghua to replace Cantonese. "Cantonese is not just a kind of dialect. It also carries the [essence] of southern Chinese culture and our identity as Cantonese people," he was quoted as saying by GZTV Evening News - the station's most popular programme - on Thursday.

The move to "protect Cantonese" has quickly turned into a unifying force for Guangdong people amid the identity crisis they face.

A call by some internet users for Guangzhou residents to gather to defend their mother tongue spread fast and has been echoed widely in internet forums. Those behind the call asked people to take part in several "cultural events" next Sunday.

The first would be held near a subway station exit, with participants engaging in a mini-game to teach people Cantonese colloquial phrases and sayings. There would be a rally later to call for the preservation of Cantonese culture. As many as 20,000 people are said to have told the organisers they will attend. The organisers said they would seek approval for the rally from Guangzhou's Public Security Bureau.

A bureau spokesman said it had not received any application yet.
BurdenOfAges
QUOTE (GunNRoses @ Jul 16 2010, 10:31 AM) *
get your fact right. cantonese is much more ancinet than mandarin is with a lot of ancien tones preserved
what do you mean by south native became sinitic overtime ? if you dont know jack about our history then better keep quiet and stop prteneedign to be an expert

cantonese is basically the language of tang which can rhyme better in the tang poetry than any other chinese dialects with a lot of missing tones of the ancinet han language
im really annoyed and disgusted by your fake knowledge

be honest, are you even chinese? i been observing you for a while now. you talk like foreginer who pretend to knows a lot of chinese history
only oversea asian and other asian will believe your imaginative fake infromations


The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.

Your generation of Cantonese speakers may never have to make the choice, explicitly, but implicitly, you have already made it by not seeking independence from China. China's official language is Mandarin, and that will have drastic consequences for all non-Mandarin languages. In fact, this has precedence even before modern China. It happened during the Zhou, when the various Yi, Di, and Man tribes merged with the Xia to form the ancient Chinese. It happened during the Han, when the southern Chinese languages were created from synthesizing Old Chinese and the native tongues. And it happened in every subsequent dynasty. Cantonese was born out of such a merging, and it will fade into such a merging. Such is the way of history.
tianya
QUOTE (BurdenOfAges @ Jul 22 2010, 11:08 AM) *
The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.

Your generation of Cantonese speakers may never have to make the choice, explicitly, but implicitly, you have already made it by not seeking independence from China. China's official language is Mandarin, and that will have drastic consequences for all non-Mandarin languages. In fact, this has precedence even before modern China. It happened during the Zhou, when the various Yi, Di, and Man tribes merged with the Xia to form the ancient Chinese. It happened during the Han, when the southern Chinese languages were created from synthesizing Old Chinese and the native tongues. And it happened in every subsequent dynasty. Cantonese was born out of such a merging, and it will fade into such a merging. Such is the way of history.

你想说啥? embarassedlaugh.gif
Chan-Ho
QUOTE (BurdenOfAges @ Jul 22 2010, 09:08 AM) *
The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.

Your generation of Cantonese speakers may never have to make the choice, explicitly, but implicitly, you have already made it by not seeking independence from China. China's official language is Mandarin, and that will have drastic consequences for all non-Mandarin languages. In fact, this has precedence even before modern China. It happened during the Zhou, when the various Yi, Di, and Man tribes merged with the Xia to form the ancient Chinese. It happened during the Han, when the southern Chinese languages were created from synthesizing Old Chinese and the native tongues. And it happened in every subsequent dynasty. Cantonese was born out of such a merging, and it will fade into such a merging. Such is the way of history.


BoA.... oh how you enlighten us all....
tianya
QUOTE (Chan-Ho @ Jul 22 2010, 11:35 PM) *
BoA.... oh how you enlighten us all....

Why not u 2 just return to ur Korean Sentry?kiss.gif
warakawa
QUOTE (tianya @ Jul 23 2010, 01:37 PM) *
Why not u 2 just return to ur Korean Sentry?kiss.gif


Seriously, why are so many racist posts on this forum? Why can't people let others have their right of expression whether they are Chinese, Korean, Viets, Japanese, or whatever.
Suijen
†^ Chan-Ho made himself unpopular here because he suggested that Guangdong should separate from mainland China because he thought Guangdong was being oppressed to learn Mandarin. †Considering that from what I see, half of the members here have Cantonese roots, we considered the idea hilarious and offensive at the same time. †Our mandarin isn't that bad. †Just don't ask us to say forty-four in Mandarin. †

QUOTE (BurdenOfAges @ Jul 23 2010, 01:08 AM) *
The antiquity of Cantonese has no bearing on what I'm saying. Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite. They could've chosen Cantonese, and it would've had the same effect. Nations are still entities formed around mass communication, and I still think you cannot have a nation that is exclusively multi-lingual. What is happening in China is the result of a historical empire attempting to become a modern nation-state - and one principle aspect of modern nation-states is its reliance on a single official language, which eventually erodes the popularity and then the number of speakers for other languages because, simply put, it is more economically expedient to learn the common tongue and people are lazy, and therefore tend toward mono-lingualism. This is happening everywhere, not just in China.




This is pretty much it. †It doesn't help that the founding fathers of China, despite being Southerners, still pressed on Mandarin to be China's putonghua pretty much says it all; the language spoken by the majority of Chinese should be the national language. †Even if there were no laws making Mandarin required learning by law, everyone would still learn it because it would be the economic and sensible thing to do. †That, or you can be totally Politically Correct and master every Chinese dialect out there. † Even Hong Kongers right now are learning Mandarin, not because they're required to, but because their jobs are going to be looking for it. †Eventually, as economic integration between HK and the mainland increases, there's just going to be an overwhelming incentive to just use Mandarin. †It beats speaking English. †
TaiwaneseSpy
>Mandarin was chosen as the lingua franca of modern China by its ruling elite.

We f**ck hard those ruling elites. As long as it wasn't chosen by the nation, it has no use just like Japanese.
warakawa
^ how else we going to have a lingua franca? democracy-style voting on a national language back in the 1950s?
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