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I reckon they must have zapped me with dat secret weapon, 'cos I'm feelin' pretty crook, and I'm supposed to host a film festival tomorrow.
It's sabbotage I tell you.

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You conspiracy theorist guy never tired in spreading falsehood and lies.

I am a Muslim. For us Muslims, we leave our fate to Allah. Allah has said that if His enemies have plans, He too has plans and His plans are better. This Allah says in Surah al-Anfal (The Spoils of War) - 8:30. Read here:

http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/8/30/default.htm


I am sure Allah is more powerful than the Illuminati. Illuminati is the creed of Syaitan (Satan). Syaitan will never stop scheming against humans, as warned by Allah.

Yes, he is a conspiracy theorist guy alright, but how do you know that what he's telling are falsehood and lies? Have you any proof that he is not telling the truth.? Actually, kumanddie is not the only one with this theory. In fact, there have been articles that theorized that the 2004 Asian tsunami that leveled Aceh in Indonesia was orchestrated by the US. In fact one article even says that the Indian government knew about this orchestration by the US. read here:

http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/39...27_tsunami.html

Sounds like some more crackpot theories to me.

Mr Esfandiari, a conspiracy theorist is someone who feels unsecured with each and every phenomenon that occur on this globe. This is a psychological ailment. He or she attempted hard to ascribe blame to anyone in order to exonerate certain party from guilt. There are quite a number of people who believed that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US or Jews or something to that effect. They manipulated some isolated coincidence and present it as hard evidence. In actual fact, the reason is to exempt the terrorists from their responsibility due to being in the same religion. Any person who had been living in Afghanistan will admit that even prior to the invasion of Soviets, that place was a hell hole to live. Najibullah came to power and tried to modernize the nation, but he was declared a communist and those power hungry warlords raced one another to topple him and grabbed power for themselves.

This is preposterous at best. We can dig deeper and alleged that Hitler exterminated the Jews as a result of another conspiracy theory. People even go so far in craziness in believing the Jews themselves sacrificed their own people so that they can establish a state in Middle East. What kind of insanity is this, friend? The 2004 Tsunami was planned by the USA and Jews again? Why don't we be realistic like the Japanese who never subscribe to any conspiracy theory even when their nation were bombarded with atomic bombs? You can differentiate between a modern people who strive to modernize their nation with some conspiracy theorist that is an expert in channeling endless blame.

Well ,Kenmirzz are 100 %right ,1 thing odd is could see after Sep 911 ,the Muslim and Arab have travel more in Muslim nation Malaysia compare to Europe plus the mosque have planned to build in Ground zero in USA and it also odd no Muslim Malay killed in Sep 911 etc .

Muslim have a habit ,Blame other like Jews for it own failure first .

Hi Galvatron, I can't understand what you have written.
We have people in this forum from non-English speaking backgrounds, and it can be hard to communicate clearly, but I am surprised that after so many years of being an AF member your written expression is so poor.
Mind you, my Malay language skills have not improved much either
Anyway, if you have the time, can you please explain more clearly what you mean ?

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Mr kenmirzz,

You are just presenting an opinion of yours, and I certainly do not have to accept your opinion, your views are not carved out in stone. You can say anything you like and present all theories you want but you cannot prove other theories by other people as wrong or right. If people want to believe that Zionists Jews planned the 911 New York incident, then they certainly have the right to look at it as a possibility. Just as you have the right not to believe in it. It is wrong for you to talk like a wise prophet and brush aside other people views, and accusing them as being preposterous and manipulators. You are not a prophet and you should stop behaving as one.

200 years ago Arabs and Palestinians did not believe that Jews were planning to set up a Jewish state in Palestine. The Arabs made a fatal mistake for not believing that; Israel was created in 1948, killing tens of thousands of Arabs in ensuing Arab-Israeli wars, sending millions of Palestinians in diaspora, and forcing Palestinians in increasingly hopeless position trying to salvage what is left of Palestine. There is talk now that Israel, with help from western Christians, are planning to resurrect Eretz Israel (Greater Israel) that extends from the Nile (Egypt) to the Euphrates (Iraq) with Jewish Jerusalem as its capital where Jews would demolish the Al Aqsa Mosque (Islam's third holiest shrine) and replace it with the Jewish Heikhal Shlomo (Solomon Temple). All supposedly to meet Jewish and Christian prophecies in the Bible, although Muslims will immediately be branded as extremists if they just for a sec talk about Koranic prophecy.

Now, with developments in the Mideast that see US-European (Christian) conquests of Iraq, Afghanistan and threatened conquest of Iran (all of which are Muslim countries), and expanding Jewish settlements in Occupied Palestine and the continued encroachment of Jewish physical buildup around Al Aqsa, are you going to brush aside people who believe in Jews scheming Eretz Israel as preposterous conspiracy theorists?

That being the case, what is it so hard to believe that Israel and Zionist Jews planned the 911 tragedy in New York? But you don't have to believe in this theory and I am not going to ask you to believe in it. But you should understand that people have the right to look at 911 from this 'Jewish conspiracy theory' perspective without being labeled as preposterous and manipulators by some pundit wannabes. By the way, this Jewish conspiracy theory in 911 incident is being put up not just by Muslims as galvatron would have you believe, but also by a wide spectrum of non-Muslim Europeans and Americans themselves. You will have your own theories but they have the right to their own theories.

As for the American-engineered 2004 Asian tsunami, I may or may not believe it ( I am more towards NOT believing it), but there are many people out there, not all of them Muslims, who seriously believe the theory. That is why I present just one article about it which is not written by a Muslim. If I were Russian, Chinese, Indian and Iranian military and security planners, I certainly would not downright brush aside these American-linked conspiracy theories. Same thing with kumanddie's Illuminati theory. There is nothing unreasonable or illogical to believe that the US-UK-Israel axis is scheming to control the entire world and setting a single world government which they control AT ALL COSTS with or without the so-called Illuminati. It is up to people to believe it or not. But it is not for you to brand them as manipulators, preposterous and other negative connotations.

@galvatron: Well, well, well....despite your unintelligible English which I find terribly difficult to decipher and which partly explains why you rarely participate to debate your own topics due to your communicative deficiency, I must congratulate you for actually responding and participating in the debate here in this thread! I guess my constant words against your attitude has paid off after all!

Why should you be surprised at no Malay deaths in 911? Few Malays would leave their homeland (Malaysia) to settle in other countries, like the Chinese would do, it is just not Malay habit to migrate. No matter how far and wide Malays travel, they'd always come back home to Malaysia. So, I bet there wasn't any Malays working at WTC during the 911 incident.

Nope, Muslims don't blame Jews for every problem, like you try to paint out. We certainly blame the Zionists for the way they control the US and for the way they behave in the Palestinian-Israel conflict and in the Mideast peace process. Muslim problems with Jews only started after Israel was created in 1948. Before that, Muslims and Jews lived together in peace as brothers in Arab countries, Turkey, Iran, North Africa and Spain. Muslims and Jews suffered together during the Spanish Inquisition when triumphant Christians in Spain forced Muslims and Jews to convert to Catholicism, forcing many of them to flee to Muslim North Africa and to Muslim Ottoman Empire. Muslim religious beliefs are a lot closer to Jewish religious beliefs than to Christian ones. Then came the Zionist Jews and the violent creation of Israel in 1948 that changed everything in Jewish-Muslim relations. By the way, not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews. It is the Zionist ones that Muslims have problems with. Jews like Norman Finklestein, Noam Chomsky, Haim Bresheeth, Gilad Atzmon and those of Satmar and Naturei Karta are anti-Zionist, anti-Israel and pro-Palestinians, not necessarily pro-Muslim or pro-Islam. Anyway, back to Malay deaths in 911 incident. Like I said, none. But many Muslims dies too during 911, many from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Here is a partial list of Muslim deaths during the 911 tragedy, from:

http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm



@Ralf: galvatron is probably not well versed in both Malay and English, coming probably from a pure Chinese education background in Malaysia. Many foreigners in and out of Malaysia speak better Malay than Malaysian-born Chinese. You are one of them. You must be commended for your good command of Malay. Kamu patut dipuji kerana penguasaan bahasa Melayu yang agak bagus!!

Mr Esfandiari



My human friend, I was just thinking of exchanging opinions, I do not have the slightest intention to impose my own idea and judgment upon anyone. I am but a truth seeker in this challenging lonely world. As far as prophets are concern, their existence are disputable and debatable at least from scientific or archaeological basis. Colonialism affected many nations around the world, whether there are Muslims or non-Muslims countries, it's the Muslims that reacted with violence and play the blame game. Other Non-Muslim nations that subscribe to the Communistic and Fascist ideologies reacted aggressively too. The common denominators between these ideologies are their obvious supremacist attitude when it comes to those who do not subscribe to similar ideology. USA or the Jews( as you believe) are not angel, they are superpower that attempt to police the world in order to display their dominance and superiority. Historically, these were part of human selfish arrogance character. A few hundred years ago, the Ottoman displayed their military might and conquered part of Europe too. This was undeniably an imperialistic endeavor but Muslims will not see this as such, even when none of the Islamic nations were colonized at that particular time period. Earlier than this, the Arab invaders subjugated Iran, then India, North Africa and conquered Spain. Did you know how many innocent souls were murdered in those occupations? You guys never judge that with the same gauge: COLONIALISM AND IMPERIALISM under the guise to spread religion though those Muslim caliphs were not guiltless in land grabbing too.



First and foremost, the hatred between Jews and Muslims originated earlier than that. Even the division between the Islamic sects( Sunni Vs Wahhabi Vs Shia) were alleged to be the effort of the Jews. These are ingrained for 1400 years, and since then, each and every calamities that fall upon Muslims or their countries, Jews will automatically be blamed and the real cause of the problem are NEGLECTED, EXONERATED AND EXEMPTED. Historically, the Jews did not come down from the moon or mars. Their original homeland is the present day Middle East, the area that they occupied today. In fact, the Jews, after their scattered migration throughout the globe for centuries did long to return to their land of origin, just the same as when Prophet Muhammad longed to return to Mecca after years of living in Medina. This is naturally human. NEVERTHELESS, their intention was never materialized and a portion of them were interested to be assimilated to the German society and made that place their new Zion. A murderer and ruthless human called Hitler shattered their dream by mass genocide 6 million( or lower) of them hence, the arising talk about returning to their original homeland became unavoidable. They are not angels, they did commit atrocities too, I am not exonerating them from certain guilt. I am being fair here. You should look at both sides of the story, instead of invoking prejudice against them on account of they being a "Jew". Your conspiracy theory about the establishment of the Greater Israel was derived from the book: Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a book of dubious origin. This false document had been debunked here:

http://www.skepdic.com/protocols.html

Will continue later....

Continuance:



The core part of the problem lies in refusal to coexist with the Jews. Most Muslims did not want to live side by side with the Jews in the Middle East. They simply want to wipe out Israel from the map. Though Israel is the most prosperous, democratic and modern nation there that each and every Arab nations surrounding it there should imitate and emulate for their successful governance, instead of relying on cruel dictatorship. Believe me, even if there is no Israel, the hatred against the Jews won't be vanished from your mind. Jews and Christian communities had been living in Arabia for 2000 years side by side with the pagan Arabs, they even intermarried, later, when the powerful religious figure emerged in that area, they were virtually eliminated from Hejjaz. Sad truth indeed. Now, you of all people had the gut to shift each and every catastrophe occurred around the globe to the Jews and ONLY JEWS? No wonder the Jews are progressing at fast pace in science, while you guys decapitated one another in Pakistan, accusing each other as infidels( Qadiyani, Shia Vs Sunni). AND THAT'S JEWS TO BLAME AGAIN? The Coptic Christians in Egypt had been harassed there and lived in fear for 1300 years, did you ever care about them, the original owner of the country? How about 250,000 Southern Sudanese were murdered in cold blood by their Northern Muslim Sudanese? During the war between Pakistan and Bangladesh, 3 million Bengalese were massacred while 200,000 women were raped by Pakistani soldiers, and this was approved by the despicable religious turban wearing mulla of Pakistan. Shame, indeed this is shame. Have you heard any Muslim lamented or at least admit this atrocities? I doubt you even know about this because your concentration and attention are pointed towards JEWS THIS JEWS THAT. Since now you have already known about it, go and verify the truth of my claim, lest you think I am a liar.



Yeah, people have the right to believe any theory they like even if it hangs on a weak string. Some ignorant people believe that the 2004 Tsunami was a retribution to the Indonesian for oppressing the Chinese there, while conspiracy theorist like Mr Kummandie believed in technological engineered one conspired by USA( or Jews). Can you see the madness of both infirm theories? It does nothing except portraying an inferiority complex attitude.

It's true that the Jews controlled American economy. Why shouldn't they? They were HARDWORKING, STRIVING, STRUGGLING AND ADAPTING to the local culture and they deserved it. Now you tell me that they had no right to own fortune because they are JEWS? Even the Intel Processor that you are utilizing right now were produced by the Jews. Boycott Intel?

This is the law of nature, you work hard and smart, you obtain the fruit. Others may envy, jealous and meant to harm you, just like many people who envied the people of other races when they turn into a successful bunch in a foreign nation. It's innate. Keep blaming the Jews for each and every misery befalling Muslims, you will do no good to yourself.

Anyway, recently Pakistan suffered from flood and millions being displaced from their home, it's the USA and non-Muslim nations that lend assistance and support the most. Saudi Arabia and Sudan? They are fast asleep, turning deaf and blind for a moment. Keep blaming and blaming.

Hello buddy ,i am not from Chinese medium school .i am educated in Malay medium school from primary to secondary ,actually i only reply to buddy Kenmirzz and the topics starter with Manglish language and ralf don't understand ,i from PJ and most of Chinese here can speak better Malay and even get A in Malay subject,the reason i don't reply my topics brcause i am busy in my work .
And some Malay even speak better Mandarin and Cantonese compare to Chinese because they too are educated in Chinese school .
I am a forum lurker and i like to post hot topics that really happen around the world in this forum and other forum and ,i only found strange than why Malay are anti Jews and non Muslim while the Kosova ,Bosnia ,Albania Muslim can accept Jews and Israel with peace ,i am neutral in political issue .

Israel, a all time enemy to Muslim also donate aids and food to Pakistan while the Pakistan Muslim want Israel to be wiped from the map .

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kenmirzz



Muslims want wipe out Israel? Not true! You are just spreading vicious lies about Muslims because you have deep-seated and ingrained prejudice against Muslims, a prejudice that you probably suckle off from the milk of your mother. You are just like galvatron, fellow anti-Muslims, but you both have the right to be what you are. That's your inherent right.

Arabs and Palestinians have progressed beyond the initial stage of wanting to wipe out Israel. They are now willing to recognize Israel's right to exist ,and willing to co-exist peacefully with Israel, provided Israel is willing to withdraw from Arab territories it illegally occupied in 1967, including from East Jerusalem. The Saudis specifically offered a peace plan in 2002, officially called the Arab Peace Initiative which calls for Arab recognition of Israel and the establishment of normal relations with Israel once Israel withdraws from all occupied Arab territories. If peace is achieved between Israel and all Arab countries that results in the establishment of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel, non-Arab Muslim countries would automatically follow suit and recognize Israel, countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc. Already, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Mauritania are on record as Muslim countries having diplomatic relations with Israel, while some Arab countries like Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Kuwait, UAE , Qatar and Bahrain are already having unofficial "under the counter" relations with Israel.

Here is an excerpt of the Arab peace plan, taken from:

http://www.mideastweb.org/saudipeace.htm



True, Arabs and Palestinians did want to wipe off Israel from 1940s-1970s. But that was a natural human reaction to being forced en masse out of their homeland that they had inhabited for thousand of years just to make way for a state that was built exclusively for Jews. You too would want to wipe out Israel if it were built in Philippines at the expense of native Filipinos. Palestinain Arabs had lived in Palestine since pagan times long before they became Christians and Muslims, in fact long before they became Arabs. Israel is bigoted, racist state built exclusively for Jews in the name of religion (Judaism and Christianity), in the name of a holy book (Bible) and in the name of a partisan God (the Judeo-Christian God). Muslims would be killed and considered extremists and fanatics if they even for a sec talk or do anything in the name of Islam but Jews are permitted to built a Jewish state in 1948 in the name of their religion and God and supported by Christians who take the Jewish religion as part of their religion.

But Israel is a foregone conclusion. It exists and is internationally recognized within its 1948 borders, and the world, including Arab and Muslim countries, are willing to recognize Israel within these borders, hence the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative. But Israel is not recognized within the 1967 borders, not even the US has recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital, the US Embassy is still at Hayarkon Street in Tel Aviv. The world, including the US and Europe, in principle, recognizes the need to set up an independent Palestinian state within these 1967 borders (West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem). But it is Israel that does not want the setting up of this Palestinian state. It is Israel that wants to wipe out the Palestinian state. Israel does not want peace and it sends out propaganda that Arabs and Muslims want to wipe it out but it is Israel that is occupying Arab lands, not the other way round. While it talks peace, Israel continues to build Jewish settlements in Occupied Territories, in East Jerusalem, in Hebron, in Sheikh Jarrah, everywhere, all in the name of their God and religion, and in the name of their DIVINE right to Palestine.

And you are a blind as bat to swallow the Israeli propaganda, perhaps you are Christian Zionist. Which is ironic. You come to Malaysia Chat telling Malays to be fair and just to Malaysian Chinese, insinuating and implying that Malays oppress Chinese in Malaysia. But you have no justice, fairness and compassion for oppressed Palestinians not all of whom are Muslims. And you are very blind to the nature of the Israeli state which is bigoted, racist and apartheid. We Malays do not do to our Chinese what Israel is doing to Arabs. And the Palestinian issue is no longer an issue that concerns Muslims only the way anti-Muslim Zionist bigots like you try to paint it out. Increasing number of human beings across all religions in all continents, including in America and Europe, are openly and vocally speaking out against the brutalities of Israel, including Jews themselves. The world is fast changing and you should keep up. The world no longer wants to be caged by the fear of being labeled as "anti-semitic". This "Arabs-want-push-Jews-into-the-Mediterranean" propaganda is archaic and is no longer bought. Zionists like you must figure out new strategies to check the declining support for Israel.

You should watch the argument between Norman Finkelstein and Raanan Gissin, both Jews. Norman Finkelstein is an American Jew, son of Jewish Holocaust survivors but one of the increasing number of Jews who are opposed to Israel, Zionism and Israel’s policies in Palestine. Gissin is an Israeli cabinet minister and a hardcore Zionist. It is not just Muslims, even non-Muslims across the West, Jews included, are questioning Israel these days. They are not asking Israel to be wiped out though some Jews do want Israel to be wiped out; they are just asking Israel to honestly work towards a fair and lasting peace for both Jews and Arabs. That is why J-Street is created in America by moderate Jews as an alternative to long-existing AIPAC which is a hardcore extremist Zionist lobbyist group. J-Street is moderate and seriously wants to end Israel-Palestinian conflict that benefits both Arabs and Israel because it sees a changing world that is getting impatient with Israel. J-Street is even campaigning to support Muslims rights to build the mosque at Ground Zero. Here, watch the Finkelstein-Gissin crossfire, watch how Finkelstein the Jew defends Palestine again another Jew, Raanan Gissin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLB8DfhnJD0


Nope, Muslims don't hate Jews as per your propaganda. Muslims and Jews had lived together before as brothers and sisters in North Africa, Middle East, India, Iran, etc. Even in Palestine, Muslims, Jews and Christians had lived together for centuries without any group trying to suppress anybody. When Muslim Arabs ruled Palestine, they never declared it a state exclusively for Muslims; Christian and Jewish holy sites were protected for them to freely practice their religions. Muslims did not have a Muslim version of "Aliyah" that says Muslims from anywhere were automatic citizens of Palestine. Muslims even provided homes and safe haven for Jews that fled Spain during the Spanish Inquisition which saw intolerant Christian zealots of Spain giving Jews and Muslims alike hard choices of either being forced to convert to Catholicism or be banished from Spain. Many Jews chose to flee to the Muslim countries. I myself had many Jewish friends as a student overseas, in fact my foster parents there were Jews who took me to visit their synagogues and their homes during Hanukkah. It is Christians who had historical records of hatred against Jews, the Spanish Inquisition and the Nazi Holocaust, for examples. But the creation of Israel in 1948 has changed many positive dynamics in Jewish-Muslim relations. Yet, we Muslims are quite aware that not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews. Many Jews are as opposed to Zionism as Muslims are, Jews like Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Gilad Atzmon, Israel Shamir, etc and Jews of organizations like Naturei Karta and Satmar. Here is a list of anti-Zionist and anti-Israel Jews, including israelis themselves:

http://www.masada2000.org/list-A.html





Nope, we Muslims do not blame Jews for every problem and catastrophe that happens! You are LIAR, a PATHETIC, BIGOTED ANTI-MUSLIM LIAR peddling rotten anti-Muslim views. No wonder you are siding with Chinese in Malaysia Chat because you hate Malay Muslims, something you share pathetically with galvatron. Instead, it is people like you who blames MUSLIMS ONLY for every problem in the world today. We do believe though that Zionists Jews (not all Jews) are controlling American foreign policy which is something which many Americans themselves believe, even non-Zionist Jews themselves. It is Christians that have historically blamed Jews for all the problems of the world. Christians blame Jews for killing Christ. Here is an excerpt of Christian hatred against Jews, taken from:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Why...te_The_Jews.htm



As for intra-religious killings and massacres, it is not just Muslims killing each other. But BIGOTED, RACIST, HATRED-FILLED, ANTI-MUSLIM like you have to cherry-pick, haven't you? History is littered with episodes of Christians killing Christians, Hindus killing Hindus, Buddhists killing Buddhists ,,,and last but not least, Muslims killing Muslims. So no big deal to me about your stupid little story of Muslim Pakistanis killing Muslim Bengalis. Protestants and Catholics killed each other in Northern Ireland, Irish Catholics bombing packed malls in Protestant England ("Christian terrorism"?), white Christians lynched and killed black Christians in southern US in 1960s and earlier so much so they couldn't attend each other's churches, Christian Hutu and Christian Tutsi killing each other in Rwanda in 1990s causing a genocide that killed 800,000 people, Christian Croats going to war against Christian Serbs in Yugoslavia....I could go on. Of course we also have Buddhist Japan invading Buddhist China and Buddhist Korea, killing many of their fellow Buddhists there, Buddhist China suppressing Buddhist Tibet that killed many Buddhist Tibetans, Buddhist Thailand historically going to wars against Buddhist Burma, etc. So, who are you trying to kid? You are not only a LIAR, but a STUPID one at that! Don't you know that humans always find ways to to go to war against each other? They may be of the SAME religion but if their skin color differs, they go to war (Black Christians versus White Christians). They may be of SAME religion but if their sects within that religion differ, they go to war (Catholics vs Protestants, Sunni vs Shia), they may be of the SAME religion but if their ethnicity and languages differ, they go to war (Buddhist Tibetans vs Buddhist Chinese, Muslim Turks vs Muslim Kurds), and so forth.

Muslim Sudanese killing Southern Sudanese Christians? How about Christian Filipinos from the north killing Muslim Moros in the south? A conflict that has kiiled 120,000 people so far, mostly Muslims. Have you lamented it? Have you admitted it? No, you are going to come back and defend your fuking Christian brothers. You are only interested in finding Muslim faults. Shame, shame, shame! How about Christian Americans killing millions of Buddhists (in Vietnam), Muslims (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan). As for rapes in conflicts, American soldiers also raped Iraqi women, don't you know it? Here, read this, it has censored pics too:

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/0...and-data-emerge

YOU ARE JUST A FUKING BIGOT LAUNCHING A CRUSADE AGAINST US MUSLIMS! Come back...I am ready for more of you!
Yeah, people have the right to believe any theory they like even if it hangs on a weak string. Some ignorant people believe that the 2004 Tsunami was a retribution to the Indonesian for oppressing the Chinese there, while conspiracy theorist like Mr Kummandie believed in technological engineered one conspired by USA( or Jews). Can you see the madness of both infirm theories? It does nothing except portraying an inferiority complex attitude.


Useless immature rantings, not worth my attention actually. It is one thing to control the American economy but it is quite another thing to use that control to manipulate the American foreign policy in a way that endangers world security. You do not benefit anything if America goes to a nuclear war against Iran at the urging of Israel and AIPAC, in fact you may have to face post-nuclear war consequences far beyond your imagination. Did I say anything about boycotting "Jewish" products? Are there such economic products called "Jewish" products? You are a LIAR again, you are worse than kumanddie. But it is possible to boycott Israeli products, and why not? Boycott Israel campaign are already being launched by non-Muslims in America and Europe.

Here, read this about a Boycott Israel Campaign in the US. The perpetrators of this campaign are not Muslims or Jihadis, jus ordinary humans who do not look at Palestinians as Muslims or Christians, but as a along-suffering group of human beings:

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/41624

And if you understand Italian, read this Boycott Israel Campaign in Italy:

http://digilander.libero.it/ahlalbait/boycott-israel.html

Great! You are finally participating despite your busy schedule. My rantings against you finally work.

Malays are not anti-Jews or anti-non-Muslims. What gives you that idea? I had many Jewish friends when I was a student overseas. I had Jewish foster parents, I visited their home and synagogues, I attended their Hanukkah celebrations, and they loved me, and I still communicate with them. They are like my real parents. My own sister is married to a Chinese. And I am a Malay, so are my family members. So, what gives you the idea? Are you basing it on the prevailing Malay-Chinese racial tensions in Malaysia? If you are, then you are wrong! Yes, we do not have diplomatic relations with Israel, but that is because we do not agree with Israel's brutal policies towards Palestinians, nor because we hate Jews. Besides, Malaysia is not the only Muslim-majority country that does not recognize Israel, most Muslim-majority countries do not recognize Israel. Out of 60-70 Muslim-majority countries with total population of 2 billion, only Turkey, Jordan, Egypt and Mauritania have official diplomatic relations with Israel, so why you single out Malays and Malaysia?


And what about you? Do you hate Malays, Muslims, Islam and Malaysia. Looking at the quality and types of the threads you post, I can't help believe that you hate Malays, Malaysia, Muslims and Islam. But I could be wrong, so I want to know it from you yourself.

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Mr Esfandiari, See! You are not into a healthy discussion, and all you are interested is in ad hominem attack. The moment I pointed some issues with your religion that preached hatred not only against Jews, but all Unbelievers, you are quickly to react in hyper way and brand me as anti-this, anti-that, pro-this, pro-that. And your childish rambling even insult a mother figure there, what an uncivilized allegation. You are an extremist, just like those Taliban scums.

Just because you don't believe in total annihilation of Israel from the map, that doesn't mean you are unanimous in belief with your fellow brothers. You invoke curses on Christian and Jews on daily basis in your prayer, calling them MISGUIDED, MISLED by god, etc. Ironically, you studied in DISBELIEVERS COUNTRY RULED BY DISBELIEVERS, KAAFIR, PORK EATER, ALCOHOL DRINKER. Yet, you utilized their knowledge, utilize their science, shameless human! Where is your dignity?



I have always being fair and impartial in judgment with regards to Israel-Palestinian conflict. However, this time, let me play your psychological game here. Think back some 1300 years ago when your filthy barbarian Arab invaders subjugated PERSIA,INDIA, NORTH AFRICA, SPAIN. The victor gained the land, can you give back Iran to Zoroastrian Persian? Return back Egypt to Coptic Christian? Damned fool, your brothers persecuted them until they had to flee Persia to India( Hence, the Parsis community in India). Israel won the war, thus, they were the victor. Those lands are rightfully theirs. End of story. If you or Palestinian don't like that, go back and return to Jordan, Syria, etc. Period. Where was your Muslim brotherhood invitation from surrounding Arabs countries to accept these refugees? They, according to you, are brothers in religion, right?

Fool, you conveniently and falsely declared Islamic brotherhood in order to suit your agenda, but HISTORICALLY, there were never brotherhood among yourselves, you guys decapitated one another, killing one another, murder one another in Battle of Jamal, Siffin, Nahrawan, and countless internal feuds thereafter. Don't talk $hit amd you can deceive Ocrap the Filipino with your @$$-like voice parroting MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS.

Ignorant human, Abbasids exterminated the Umayyads like vermins and the latter had to flee to North Africa. ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD? Are you a joker or you never learn enough history? And the Ottoman, yeah, They were wiped out for good by Mustafa Kemal Attaturk, the GREAT TURK HERO. The Ottoman had the policy approved by their turban wearing religious SheikhulIslam so that any Sultan that inherited the throne can execute all his brothers, lest rebellion will happen. Brothers murdering brothers again??? ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD?

Read your own holy book extremist buddy! Moses brought them from Egypt(Mass Exodus) and conquered the area. You plagiarized this myth from the Old Testament. They wiped out the original inhabitants there and took over the area. And no, the Amlekites, Kaananites, etc were not the present day Palestinians. They came much later during the occupation by Omar Al-Khattab. Don't claim something that never belong to you originally. And NO, triple NO, you guys can't even get along well with each other for 1400 years, did you expect us to believe that your new creation of Palestinian state can do well in administration? Shameless human, ALL THE ARAB NATIONS in Middle East are like $hit holes hating each other, back stabbed each other, yet, they continuously pray and invoke a false deity. What a joke.

Do not exonerate the crime committed by your Muslim brothers in Iran, India, North Africa, etc. Ignorant human, your savage invader gave them ultimatum, CONVERT, or PAY THE JIZYA or if you refused both, RECEIVED SWORD. I am tired of you playing the victim games here, in fact, the whole humanity do not even hate you, they allowed Muslims to immigrate to the West, enjoyed freedom and happy life there, it's you who are the embodiment of hatred, whenever an area turn into your majority, like Pakistani in UK, you demand sharia, you demand the government to appease you, bow down to you. Shameless human, DONT YOU DARE TO TALK TRASH HERE.



I am a Christian zionist?? The Bible especially the Old Testament were fairy tales, mythical stories of the ancient, just like your holy book, a 7th century rambling of an Arab desert tribal warlord who never receive ample love from his own mother, that's explain his narcissism. Enough said. I am a Deist. Before any criticism towards Israel id directed, care to check out the human rights record of Iran where the Bahai is heavily persecuted? Pakistan, where the Qadiyani and Shias are heavily oppressed? You guys victimize others and yet had the face to shed crocodile tears for Palestinians? Shame on you!



What an easy get away from real issue at hand. Dumb human, Tu Quoque won't do any good here. However, let me elaborate that it's you guys who use the name of religion to murder and kill. No Buddhist will use Buddhism to kill others. It's you guys of the Abrahamic faiths that like to declare infidels will go hell for eternity and justified in murdering them, just like what you guys did in India and Iran 1400 years ago. Stop drawing a false analogy to exempt you guys from the responsibility.

And yes, according to your belief, no matter how good a moral human is, if he or she does not believe in your religion, he or she will go to hell, that's include your KAAFIR JEWS foster parents too. You can't even pray for them after they died because they will surely go to hell. WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! And don;t shower your false pride in having Unbelievers as friends or acquaintance, your religion prohibited any sort of relationship with DISBELIEVERS. This was the position of all your despicable Islamic scholars, whether Sunni or Shia, or Wahhabi for years. CUT THE CRAP!

Hey joker, quote me one instance where I justify any killing of innocent human being? You can't even argue in civil and mild way. That's inherent in your blood. Your religion was spread through wars and conquer, no difference with the Spanish who did that much later, probably learning from you THUG, SAVAGE Arabian barbaric invaders. As for rape, it's sufficient to provide hadiths where your prophet approved rape of slave captured through war:

Ibn Aun has narrated: �I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.� Bukhari 3.46.717 (see also Muslim 019. 4292)

Bukhari reports:
Abu Saeed said: �We went out with All�h's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking All�h's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."


Abu Sa'id al-Khudri said:
The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, send down the Qur'anic verse: "And all married womenare forbidden unto you save those whom your right hand possess."[Surah 4:24] [Sunan Abu Dawud, Book V, Chapter 711, Number 2150]


Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist." [Sahih Bukhari. Book #59 Hadith #459]

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 512:
Narrated Anas:
The Prophet had their men killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet
Muslim Book 008, Number 3329:


Now, YOU AMONG ALL PEOPLE DARE TO TALK ABOUT RAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????? Look at your own backyard first before condemning others. You notice the dust on others forehead but failed to see the elephant in front of you. What a blind idiot, GET LOST.

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Truth hurts the most. How can I learned from "zionistic vatican" when I reiterate that the Old Testament were mythical literature?

For your information, you yourself should open your eyes and see how barbaric, backward and regressive most of the Islamic countries are, especially those of more fundamentalist, become worse. Those who adopt secularism, become better.

Free sex is a disease, it's not only a practice in Non Muslim nations, but in Islamic countries as well especially your version of Nika Muta and Misyar that are practiced by both Shias and Sunnis as well. Please be informed that your religion licensed unlimited sex apart from 4 legally married wives, you can keep female slaves( jariya) and sexually utilize her. I can provide evidence from your own sources if you want.

That's a moral problem and not every human cherish this misconduct. Alcohol addiction is also a psychological disease. Nevertheless, drinking in moderation is very beneficial to health. Even the ink you used to write your holy book contained alcohol too.

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kenmirzz




Great! You just need a little push from me to spill out all your Islamophobic poison, vitriol and diatribes, attacking even the way we Muslims pray. You have been wanting to spill it out all this time, haven't you? Despite all fuking pretension to be tolerant, civilized and open-minded, even advising people, there is nothing of those in you. Now, you have reduced yourself to attacking even the way we Muslims pray. Pretty soon you will be attacking Prophet Muhammad and the Quran. And then you will be accusing Muslims of terrorism and oppressor of women. Go ahead! Attack Islam and Muslims! You drink that hatred from your mother's breasts! her. Yes, I repeat: from your mother. You are so fuking petty. You cannot hide you fuking hatred towards Muslims. Even I do not attack the ways non-Muslims pray. You fuking low-life scum have gone so far to accuse Muslims of cursing Jews and Christians in their Muslim prayers we we actually don't do that. Listen you fuking low-life scum, if I am an extremist Taliban, what does it make you? A fuking angel? Nope, you are fuking extremist yourself.

Listen you fuking low-life scum of the earth, you started it first, and there was nothing healthy either about your points of discussion right from the beginning. You accused Muslims of accusing Jews for all problems of the world when we do not do that. Stop defending Jews, it is Christians and their sympathizers like you that have historically persecuted Jews, so much so Jews need a separate country called Israel where they can feel safe but all the expense of Muslims and Christian Arab Palestinians. You highlight Muslim Pakistani soldiers raping Muslim Bangladeshi women, as if raping is unique only to Muslims only when as recent as 1990s Christian Serbs raped thousands of Muslims Bosnian women. You are a fuking bigot, fuking low-life scum, fuking arsehole. I did not start all these. You have been fuking itching and b!tching to fight with Muslims right from the start. You have been itching to insult Muslims and Islam right from the beginning. You are a fuking Nazi, a fuking modern-day Spanish Inquisitionist





Fair my arse! Fuking extremist like you have no fairness in you. Now you low-life scum and anti-Muslim Islamophobe have taken yourself on a time machine back to 1300 years ago bashing Muslims and accusing Arabs as barbarians for long-gone history, demanding Muslims return Persia, Egypt, India, North etc. That is probably about as good as asking Americans, French, Spanish and Portuguese to return the Americas, Australia, New Zealand and Philippines back to its original owners. Listen you low-life scum.. going to war and conquering lands and converting people are not fuking unique to Muslims, all fuking humans of all fuking religions go to war. The only difference is that Muslims no longer go around conquering lands, it is their lands that are being conquered and they are reduced to fighting to defend their lands. Christians are still going to war to conquer lands and still colonizing lands. But I will not go into a time a time machine like fuking low-life scum like you. I will not demand Europeans to hand back Americas, Australia and NZ back tom its native peoples. I am not an extremist like fuking you. I am fighting anti-Muslim extremist like you. I will not further comment on your anti-Muslim, Islamophobic tirades that fuking take you on a time machine all the way to the Ottoman and the Abassid Empires. Keep ranting you low-life scum mothafacka sonofab!tch!

Yes, I do get my education from an infidel Christian country just like infidel Christians used to get education from the Muslims universities in the Omayyad Empire in the past. Muslims too have contributed to the knowledge of the world in the past. But fuking low-life anti-Musllim scum like you would rather ignore this fact. But today, many non-Muslims are also studying in Malaysia, non-Muslims from Third World African countries as well as Asian countries. There are Christian Filipinos studying in Malaysia on how to grow rubber and palm oil, and Muslims lecturers and professors are teaching them so. Of course, there are also Muslims studying in Christian Philippines on how to grow rice. So get real you low-life anti-Muslim scum: knowledge knows no religious boundary - there is nothing in Islam that says Muslims cannot teach non-Muslims and vice versa. But extremist low-life scum like you will not understand this.

And when you attack Muslims and Islam, you are not just attacking ME. You are attacking ALL MUSLIM MEMBERS OF ASIA FORUM! That how fuking extremist you are! But I will not attack Christianity and what Christians did in the past. There are many good Christians out there in AF and I should not hurt them just to get even with a fuking low-life scum like you..

Come back and attack Islam and Muslims as much as you like, keep digging history to insult us Muslims and our religion. You are an anti-Muslim and anti-Islam extremist. It is your job to attack Muslims and Islam. Pretty soon you will end fighting not just me but other Muslims members of AF as well.

Typical response from someone who cannot defend his stance logically. This is a logical fallacy called: Argumentum ad Baculum

Your prophet married 11 or 13 women, most of whom were pretty and young widows( he made them to be widow by massacring their tribes), at the age of 54, he lusted upon a small girl of 6 year old. He had two concubines , Raihana and Mariyya Al-Qibtiyya in which he didn't marry them because they are considered as jariya( female slaves). He married and divorced for more than 20 times in his life time. No, this story was not fabricated by the Jews, it's from your Siraa Ibn Ishak, At-Tabari, Siraa Ibn Hisham, Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim Al-Waqidi, etc.

Is this a character of a saintly man? Don't whitewashed him, he virtually applied force in spreading his religion, engaging in more than 70 wars with the pagan Arabian tribes. Only two of the wars were defensive, the rest were not.

Don't joke around with your conspiracy theory.

Someone is burning like $hit here. Ha ha. You yourself required a little push to expose your hatred for all HUMANS who are Unbelievers. Great! Yes, I repeat without any shadow of doubt, you curse the Jews and Christians in your 5 daily prayers, dumb brain. The last two verses of Suraa Al-Fatihah depicted them as misguided and misled by god. Go and check that! Don't pretend like a low life! I can read your Quran in Arabic better than you, with each and every page smeared with hatred and warning to Unbelievers as inhabitant of hell fire. Your prophet was a maniac, psychologically evil. Yes again, you are the oppressor of women, dumb $hit with no brain, go and experience living in real Islamic countries such as Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia and look the way the women are treated.



Dumb shameless human who used Kaafir's science and technology, go back to your stupid desert. You have no dignity, you bite the hand that feed you. Of course I am supportive of the Jews, they are not special human or someone who wants to control the world, you crazy idiot conspiracy theorist, they strived hard and struggled consistently to obtain success. You guys like to be jealous of each other, back stab each other, vying the Chinese with suspicion and look at the Jews and Christians with the spectacle of prejudice. Scum lowlife like you don't even worth to exist.

kenmirzz


Yes, as I imagine, you are no longer attacking me but you are attacking the religion of 2 billion people. You are attacking Islam, you are attacking Muslims, you are attacking the Quran, you are attacking Omar al-Khattab. I will not engage in a religious war against Christians or other non-Muslims just to get even at you. That is not my aim when I first took on you. Please go ahead and attack Islam all you want. You are an EXTREMIST, LOW-LIFE SCUM. As I said, pretty soon fuking extremist like you will end up fighting other Muslim members of this Forum as well. There is no need for me to respond to every vicious attack of yours on Islam and Muslims



Deist or not, you just spent a great deal of your time attacking ISLAM and MUSLIMS, and I have not attacked any religion or its followers. Yes, I do attack ZIONISTS and ISRAEL but your respond to MY anti-Israel and anti-Zionist statements is by attacking all of Islam. And I am not the only ones verbally attacking Israel these days. Even Christians and Jews across America and Europe are beginning to verbally attack Israel. It has nothing to do with Islam. BUT YOU CHOOSE TO ATTACK ISLAM BECAUSE I AM MUSLIM AND I HAPPEN TO BE CRITICIZING ISRAEL. You just cannot accept Muslims criticizing Israel. You are the real extremist, the real terrorist and the real fanatic.




More extremist attacks of Islam from you! Bloody mothafacka sonofab!tch low-life scum!

Yes, keep admitting you hate ISLAM and MUSLIMS! You fuking low-life mothafacka sonofab!tch Islamophobe! It's in your genes and you get it from your mother. I don't feel burnt at all, it's you the fuking arsehole who imagine me burning. Great! Now you have just accused Prophet Muhammad a maniac! That make you feel good? You are the one without brain because your brain is made of of real $hit! I am not angry at all you attacking Islam and Prophet Muhammad. I have come across $hits like you in the internet. You have been wanting to do this all the time. You have tried but failed to hide behind that semblance of order and civilized behavior in debates.

Yes, extremists scums like you would not want Muslims to exist. You admit it. You are a Nazi, that is all to you. There is no need for us to go the deserts. The Kaafirs are already in our deserts pumping oil and gas. And the Kaafir science you are talking about has its foundation in Islamic science but $hithole like won't see it.

My idiotic human who I have to share the Earth with you, judge every subjugation, every colonialism, every conquer with similar gauge, you dumb. I am providing you with analogy so that your stupid brain can think sanely. Of course I should mentioned your low life Arabian savage invader who initiated the imperialistic movement first, did you get oppressed at those particular time period, you stupid human who knows no history except some smattering whitewashed version where your savage and ruthless Arabian invaders were praised as being hero, the spreader of your false religion? Go to hell.

Yes, human throughout history went to war to conquer land, but they did that not on divinely ordained mission, it's merely greed to obtain a larger territory. That's understandable. It's you lowlife scum Abrahamic faiths people( Christianity and Islam) that believe in stupid thing as divine right to convert other human to your pathetic religion and you executed that through SUBJUGATION AND HUMILIATION of the native. I repeat, this formula was practiced by your $hitty Arabian Invader: CONVERT, PAY JIZYA OR SWORD. Shameless human, try to compel people in free country NOW the way your stupid Arabian invader did, and I'm sure you will go to jail in no time.



Most of the so called Muslim scientists in the past were not fanatically religious, most of them were freethinkers such as Muhammad Ibn Zakaria Ar-Razi, Ibn Sina, Al-Farabi, Umar Khayyam, Ibn Rawandi. They were later labeled as apostate and heretic by the upcoming orthodox fanatic Islamic scholars such as Ibn Taymiyya and Al-Ghazali who called Ibn Sina as apostate because he disbelieved in life after death. Go and read some history please. Moreover, it's only after you translated GREEK, INDIAN, AND CHINESE literature to Arabic that caused the medieval Muslims to have interest in science and knowledge. One more thing to remember, it's during the Abbasid's time of Al-Ma'mun where the doctrine of MU'TAZILA was enforced by the Empire that the excel in science can be traced. Do you know the doctrine of Mu'tazila??? They disbelieved in the divine origin of the Quran and regard it as being created, besides that, they give priority to the MIND AND INTELLECT over Revelation.

In other words, they were not true orthodox Muslims. So, stop taking credit from a demised doctrine that you regard as heretic nowadays and most of the Sunnis branded the Mu'tazilas as kaafir. Are you dumb or you don't know history? Your country and Philippine are SECULAR country, dumb $hit, of course under the free education of secularism, every human deserve to obtain education anywhere. Non-Muslims are not even allowed to enter your mosques because they are considered as dirty, let alone obtaining education in real Islamic country. On the same basis, fanatic Christians do not allow Unbelievers to study at Vatican. It's SECULARISM nowadays that permit this. Your brain is full with worms?



I am giving a shock therapy to you guys, so that you can utilize your brain and think logically. You had been brainwashed/programmed to take things for granted and believe in sacredness of each and every aspect of your religion, I attack that spot, so that you may use your intelligence and wisdom to realize the truth.

YOU ARE A BELIEVER OF SUPERSTITION, even with high education, you still believe in genies and devils, what's next? Perhaps Elf, Wizard, gnome as well.

You do not judge everyone with equal standards, you belong to a supremacist religion, just like Nazism and Fascism where you and your community will enter paradise while others will go to hell. It's you that insult us, the Unbelievers with your despicable doctrine. Are you sure you will get your paradise? 500 million Shias believed that you will go to hell, and the paradise is reserved for them instead. Ha ha, what a joke. Fools.

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You fuking little $hit-filled brain doesn't fuking explain anything fuking new. Long before we Muslims embarked on imperial conquests, the fuking Greeks, the Romans and the Persians were already embarking on those conquests. And that is just in Europe. The Chinese dynasties in China, the Indian dynasties in India, the ancient Egyptian dynasties and the Mongols were already fuking embarking on imperialistic ambitions long before Muslims came along. We Muslims just came after them and took our turns and the modern Europeans came after us to take their turn, And the fuking Americans are the latest to take their turn and still embarking in the modern-day imperialistic ambitions.Go clean your $hit-filled head you fuking lowlife scum. And now you are fuking pretending to hate Christianity as well by lumping it with Islam just to water down your initial Islam-only hatred. You don;t fool anyone, you lowlife insignificant scum.



Freethinker your arse! These people you call apostates were Muslims, enlightened and not fanatical. Muslim open universities in Muslim Spain and in Baghdad as early as 750 AD. The world still uses Arabic numerals. "Chemistry", "Algorithm", "Algebra" and "Alcohol" are some scientific words originating from Arabic, denoting Arab-Muslim contribution to science. Arab chemistry ran from 642 CE to 1200 CE, preceding European chemistry that ran from 1300 CE to present. Low-life insignificant scum like you will not give credit to the Muslims. As usual, low-life scum like you like to twist facts to sell around. Muslims owe kafirs nothing. Kafirs colonized Muslim and non-Muslim third world countries for hundreds years in North Africa, Middle East, Africa, Americas, Central Asia and SE Asia, sapping and exploiting Msslim resources to finance their economy, their way of life and their sciences, and in the process reversed economic growth of Muslim and third world countries for 200-300 years. Malaysia was colonized by the British 120 years, Indonesia 300 years by the Dutch, it was our Muslim resources that make these kafir countries are today. We owe them nothing.



Bull$hit! As usual, your rotten maggot-filled brain twists facts to take credit away from Muslims. Even Europeans acknowledge Muslim contribution to science and give them credit. Even Britain's Prince of Wales acknowledges it. There are lots of websites in the internet on this subject, written by non-Muslims. And that is a fact, and pigs like you can oink all you want, it won't change that fact. It doesn't fuking interest me to provide fuking maggot-filled kafir brain like you links to these websites or excerpts of articles from these websites because we have reached the point that $hit-eating Islamophobic pig like you will no longer debate with rationality.



Shock therapy your fuking stinking paper-wiped arse! You don't shock me at all! That's your fuking wishful thinking! I am already used to intolerant, Islam-bashing Islamophobes like you, there are tons of them on the internet. You are no big deal! You can go ahead and attack Prophet Muhammad, attack Islam, make fun of its values and mock it. But tiny insignificant maggot-filled low-life kafir scum like you will not dent Islam or make it weaker. Any good person who reads your views here, good Muslims and non-Muslim alike, can tell what a stinking, intolerant Nazi and communist you are! I am a better person than you. I don't have to believe other religions other than Islam but I do not go around attacking these religions. Your attacks on Islam just goes to show that you are are mentally sick and retarded monkey. You need medical and psychiatric supervision real bad. You are MAD, INSANE, CRAZY, LOCO and GILA, otherwise how can one explain for your vicious attacks on Islam just because you cannot defeat me in a debate. You have lost this fuking debate low-life scum. From now on, you will only attack Islam to get even with me, because you have no other mode of self-defense. I am not shocked at all. Come on, come back and attack Islam all you want if that will whet your insanity even more. Why should I be shocked with a mentally retarded scum like you. You rightful place is in a lunatic asylum.

Calm down, you really like to use the "4 lettered word" so much. I recalled never use that word even once because I am not a pervert. let me train your brain with some facts about conquest. You should make a distinction between territorial conquest and religious conquest. The former is not justified morally and in most of the cases, involved injustice. However, religious conquest initiated by your savage ruthless Arabian invaders breath a new intention, to spread the religion by method of FORCE. In other words, you guys sent threatening letters to sovereigns of surrounding area and COMPEL them to accept the ultimatum I mentioned earlier, if they refused, you conquered their territory and killed their male inhabitants and enjoy the female as captured slaves of war, captives that you can sexually utilized them. This was how your religion progressed to North Africa, Iran, and India. Where is your empathy? Try to put yourself in the shoes of those Persian who lived peacefully in Iran at that time, suddenly your marauding Arabian savage invaders came to subjugate them, forcing them to abandon Fire Worship. Good gracious, where is your sympathy? If a powerful Christian countries sent threatening letter to you guys, giving you with similar ultimatum and if you reject their demand, sent a powerful army to conquer you guys, how will you react? Is it fair? The answer is no. Get it? This is as simple as the math equation 1+1 =2. There is no need to be angry with me, Mr Esfandiari. After all, you are my human friend.



See, you are lacking in knowledge about your own history. Nope, that's my history too because I have Persian blood within me. Anyway, check out some facts about Ar-Razi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi

His book entitled: The Prophets' Fraudulent Tricks (مخارق الانبياء ) criticized prophets. He was obviously not the type you should meddle with, he is freethinker alright.He even criticized the Quran. Please do not claim him as your own, okay.

As for Ibnu Sina, suffice to say that he was branded as apostate later. He was deeply influenced by the philosophy of Aristotle. But of course you guys tried to save face by claiming him as your own.

Ash'ari theologians, especially al-Ghazali and Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, criticized him due to the contrast of some of his ideas to that of the Qur'an and Hadith. Al-Ghazali, in his famous work The Incoherence of the Philosophers (Tahafat al-Falasafah), criticized Avicenna in three cases: First, qadim, that is the world has no beginning in the past and is not created in time. Second, that God's knowledge includes only classes of beings (universals) and does not extend to individual beings and their circumstances (particulars), and third, bodily resurrection, i.e. after death the souls of humans will never again return into bodies. According to al-Ghazali, in these three cases the teachings of Islam, which are based on revelation, suggest the opposite and thus overrule the unfounded claims of Avicenna.[72]

He accused Avicenna of disbelief in Islam and even argued that it was fard to consider him a Kafir, despite the fact that Avicenna accepted the shortage of his own philosophy in several works, including The Book of Healing, where he confessed that he can not prove bodily resurrection but accepts it on the basis of faith.[73][74] In the following period, in the wake of Avicenna's Peripatetic philosophy in the 11th and 12th centuries, Ash'ari theology was predominant in the eastern Islamic lands. Of course, as Henry Corbin mentions, Avicennism didn't fade away by such criticisms in the Muslim world, especially in Iran.[75][76]


Source: ^ Al-Ghazali by Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, First published Tue 14 Aug, 2007, Corbin, (1993) p. 174
# ^ Nasr, (2006) p. 86 and 87

There is no further proof needed for Al-Farabi, Umar Khayyam, Ibn Rawandi, Al-Ma'arri. You go and research about them and tell me.

I repeat, the Arabs, after conquering PERSIA, INDIA, SPAIN, had accessed to many scientific literature of the Greek, Egyptian, Indian and Chinese, the enlighten one among them translated these manuscripts to Arabic. The one who pioneered this was: Hunayn Ibn Ishak, a Nestorian Christian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunayn_ibn_Ishaq

Give credit where credit due, please, my civil and polite human.

Not all European are wise, some of them are quite stupid. They even made tangible error in distinguishing between Arabs and Persian up until these days. They assumed that just because someone had the epithet like a Muslim names( Ar-Razi, Ibn Rawandi), according to them, these personalities are Muslims. That's a blunder on their part. In order to determine whether these personalities were Muslims or not, we have to research books authored by they themselves and their contemporary or someone who were familiar with their thinking and philosophy. That's why Al-Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyya and bulk majority of Orthodox Sunni scholars put a stamp of either heretic or apostate to most of the so called Islamic scientists that you like to parrot about to the whole world. You yourself go and research about them, don't rely on stupid European whose political correctness had blinded them into appeasement. One more thing, Dr Maurice Bucaille and Dr Keith Moore that you guys like to brag about for their praise of the Quran were exposed for receiving much money from the Saudis. The former was a private physician of King Faisal. Ironically, they never converted.



Please don't claim victory and let the impartial reader decide, my polite human friend. Yes, I can give you the "victory in insulting words", that's befit you. Let me remind you and publicize to the whole world that it's you that hate-filled and hot-headed one here. I don't believe that you will go to hell, but you on the other hand, already authenticate the hell for me and all the UNBELIEVER HUMANS which amounting to 5 billion. You are the supremacist Nazis here, just like Hitler who believed in the superiority of Aryan race, you believe that paradise is reserved for you guys only. Anyway, who will enter paradise actually? Sunnis? Shias? Wahhabis? Deobandis? Barelwis? Qadiyanis? Agha Khanis? Sufis? Please solve your own problem first before rehashing about your guaranteed salvation.

wow i've never heard of this stuff
do you all think this true?? it kind of looks like it but on the other hand i think its just nonsense
i'm confused

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Prophet Muhammad in the Old Testament

Almost all the previous Prophets predicted the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings. Despite the changes they have undergone over time, we can still find indications to his coming in the Torah, Psalms and the Gospels.

A Prophet from among the brothers of the Israelites who resembles Moses

For example, the following verses of the Torah promise the coming of the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings:

The Lord said to me [Moses]: 'What they say is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you among their brothers; I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My Name, I will Myself call him to account.' (Deuteronomy, 18.17-9)

It is clear from these verses that what is meant by 'a Prophet like you among their brothers' is a Prophet who will come from the line of Ishmael, since Ishmael is the brother of Isaac, who is the forefather of Moses' people, the Children of Israel. The only Prophet who came from the line of Ishmael after Moses and resembled him in many ways, for example, in the bringing of a new law and waging of war on his enemies, is the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings. Also, the following verse of the Bible in Deuteronomy, 34.12 (Istanbul 1885), clearly states that no Prophet like Moses did ever appear among the Israelites:

With respect to his virtues and awesome deeds, no Prophet like Moses, whom the Lord knows face to face, no longer appeared among Israel.

The Quran points to the same fact:

We have sent to you a Messenger as a witness over you, even as We sent to Pharaoh a Messenger. (al-Muzzammil, 73.15)

The sentence, I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him, in the verse in question, means that the promised Prophet will be unlettered and speak whatever is revealed to him. God reiterates the same fact in the Quran:

He does not speak out of [his own] desire. It is but a Revelation revealed. (al-Najm, 53.3-4)

The Prophet who shone forth from Mount Paran

The following verse,

The Lord came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran. (Deuteromony, 33.2)

refers to the Prophethood of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad respectively, upon them be peace. Sinai is the place where the Prophet Moses spoke to God and received the Torah. Seir, a place in Palestine, is where the Prophet Jesus received Divine Revelation. Paran is where God manifested Himself to mankind for the last time through His Revelation to the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings.

Paran is a mountain range in Makka. It is mentioned in the Torah (Genesis, 21.19-21) as the area in the desert where Hagar was left by her husband Abraham, upon him be peace, to live with her son, Ishmael. The well of Zamzam appeared in it. As is stated explicitly in the Qur'an (14.35-7), Abraham left Hagar and Ishmael in the valley of Makka, which was then an uninhabited place within the mountain ranges of Paran.

The verse in Deuteromony, according to the Arabic version published in London in 1944 and the Ottoman Turkish version published in Istanbul in 1885), continues:

He came with myriads of holy ones; in his right hand appeared to them the fire of the Shari'a.

This verse refers to the promised Prophet, Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, who would have numerous Companions of the highest degree of sainthood. The fire of the Shari'a alludes to the fact that the promised Prophet would be allowed, and even ordered, to fight against his enemies.

Other verses in the Old Testament:

In the Psalms of David, there is the following verse:

O God, send to us after the interregnum (after the latest of the successive prophets) one who will establish (Your) way.'¹

Here, 'one who will establish (Your) way' refers to the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings.

The following verse is from the Gospels:

A verse from the Torah says:

Surely God said to Abraham: 'Hagar will certainly bear children. There will appear from her sons one whose hand will be above all, and the hands of all others will be opened to him in reverence.'²

Another verse from the Torah:

And He said, 'O Moses, surely I will raise up for them a Prophet like you, from among their brothers (that is, from among the children of Ishmael); I will put my Word in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I Myself will call him to account.' (Deuteronomy, 18:18-19.)

A third verse from the Torah:

Moses said: 'O my Lord, I have found in the Torah a community, as the best of the communities, that will be raised for (the benefit) of mankind; they enjoin the good and forbid the evil, and they believe in God. Let it be my community!' (God) said: 'That is the community of Muhammad.'³

This is a verse from the Psalms:

O David, a Prophet will come after you, named Ahmad (Muhammad), the Truthful and the Lord, and his community will be forgiven.⁴

From the Seven 'Abdullahs, 'Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn al- 'As, who made extensive studies of earlier Divine books, 'Abdullah ibn Salam, who was the first to embrace Islam from amongst the famous Jewish scholars, and the renowned scholar Ka'b ibn al-Akhbar from amongst the foremost scholars of the Israelites, all pointed out the following verse in the Torah, which was not then corrupted to its present extent. The verse, after addressing Moses, addresses the Prophet to come in the following strain:

O Prophet, verily We have sent you as a witness, a bearer of good tidings, a warner and a protection for the unlettered. You are My slave; I have named you 'the Reliant on God', who are not harsh and stern, and not clamorous in the marketplaces; who do not repel the evil with evil, but instead pardon and forgive. God will certainly not take away his life until He straightens a crooked nation by means of him (by causing them) to proclaim 'There is no deity but God.'⁵

Another verse from the Torah states:

Muhammad is the Messenger of God; his birthplace is Makka, he will emigrate to Tayba, the center of his rule is Damascus, and his community are unceasingly occupied with praise of God.⁶

In this verse, for the word Muhammad, a Syriac word meaning Muhammad is actually mentioned.

Another verse from the Torah:

You are My slave and Messenger; I have named you 'the Reliant on God.'⁷

This verse is also addressed to a Prophet who will emerge after Moses from the progeny of Ishmael, the cousins of the children of Isaac.

Here is another verse from the Torah:

My slave is a 'chosen one', who is not harsh, nor he is stern.⁸

The meaning of 'Mukhtar', a chosen one, is the same as 'Mustafa', a name of Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings.

The Prophet who will come after Jesus is referred to as 'the Master of the world' in several places in the Gospels. (John, 14:30)

This verse of the Gospel, which has come to describe him,

With him is an iron staff with which he will fight, as will his community.⁹

indicates that a Prophet will come with a sword to wage Jihad. In agreement with this verse of the Gospel, the following Qur'anic verse at the end of Sura al-Fath (Victory), which refers to some other verses of the Gospel as well as the one mentioned above, also states that his community, like him, will be under the obligation of waging Jihad.

And their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed that sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands in its own stem, filling the sowers with wonder and delight, so that it fills the unbelievers with rage at them. (48:29)

In the Torah, there is the following verse:

The flags of the holy ones are with him, on his right. (Deuteronomy, 33:2) ¹⁰

In this verse, the Companions of the Prophet are described as 'the holy ones', that is, his Companions are blessed, righteous, saintly friends of God.

In Chapter 42 of the Book of Isaiah, there are the following verses:

Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope. (Isaiah, 42:1-4)

These verses are certain to describe the Prophet Muhammad, who would come in the last phase of human history.

There are the following verses in Chapter 4 of the Book of Micah:

In the last days the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up the mountain of the Lord, to the house of God. He will teach us His ways, so that we may walk in His paths." (Micah, 4:1-2)

These verses obviously describe the Mount Arafat, the most blessed mountain of the world, and the nation of Muhammad, upon him be peace, together with the prayers and praises that would be offered by the pilgrims who would flock there from all climes.

The following verses are from Chapter 72 of Psalms:

He will rule from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth.The desert tribes will bow before him and his enemies will lick the dust. The kings of Tarshish and of distant shores will bring tribute to him; the kings of the Yemen and Seba will present him gifts. All kings will bow down to him and all nations will serve him. For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no-one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death. He will rescue them from oppression and violence for precious is their blood in his sight. Long may he live! May people ever pray for him and bless him all day long.

...

May his name endure for ever; may it continue as long as the sun. All nations will be blessed through him. and they will call him blessed. (Psalms, 72:8-17)

These verses describe the Prophet Muhammad, the Pride of the World, in a very clear way. Since the Prophet David, has a prophet come other than the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, who has spread his religion from east to west, to whose name many rulers pay tribute, and whose way so many obey with deep adoration for him, and on whom one fifth of mankind call, every day, God's peace and blessings? Is there anyone who fits this description other than the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings?

Prophet Muhammad in the New Testament

More emphatically and more frequently than any other Prophet, the Prophet Jesus, upon him be peace, gave the good tidings of the Last Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings.

The Capstone in the Gospel of Matthew

Jesus said:

Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes? Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.' (Matthew, 21.42-4)

The 'capstone' mentioned in the verses cannot be the Prophet Jesus for the verses refer to the crushing victories that the followers of the 'capstone' will win against their enemies. No people were ever broken to pieces or crushed because they resisted Christianity. Christianity gained ground against the Roman Empire only after it had lost its original identity and been reconciled with Roman paganism. The Western dominion over the world came after scientific thought's triumph over the medieval Christian view of nature and was realized in the form of a ruthless colonialism. Whereas, Islam ruled almost half of the 'old' world for many centuries as a religion in its original purity and its enemies were many times defeated before it. In its struggle with other religions, Islam has always been successful. It is, again, Islam which is on the rise as both a pure, authentic religion and as a way of life, and which is the hope of salvation for humanity more than that, the Prophet Jesus himself alludes to this fact by stating explicitly that the kingdom of God will be taken away from his followers and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Second, in a telling detail recorded in a hadith in the Sahih of al-Bukhari and that of Muslim, the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, describes himself as the 'capstone' completing the building of Prophethood.

Paraklit, the Spirit of Truth

In the Gospel of John, Jesus promises the arrival of the Last Prophet using a variety of names:

galvatron. At least that guy does not make personal statements attacking prophet Muhammad as a maniac or attacking Islam as nothing more than a superstition. He just post topics that make Islam and Muslim look bad. I used to think he is the worst that AF has to offer; he pales down in comparison to you.

Hey, if you are so itchy and b!tchy to bash Islam, AF forum is not for you. You should go to more juicy, succulent and delicious anti-Islam websites, some set up by ex-Muslim apostates. These websites are some of the most virulent, most venomous, most poisonous and most vitriolic in their hatred of Islam. They spill so much hatred against Islam and Muslims that they have reached their maximum, and they have nothing more to spill. You should be there, you will feel very at home. Get out of AF, go there, pronto! If you still want to be in AF, why don't you start an Islam-bashing website. How about giving it a title: "Prophet Muhammad is a maniac". To make it better, post it Indonesian Chat where many Indonesian Muslims take pride at their country being tagged as "most populous Muslim nation". Here let me help you, here is a list of some of the most morbid anti-Islam websites. Enjoy!

http://www.islam-exposed.org/
http://www.answering-islam.org/
http://www.convertstoislam.org/
http://www.thequran.com/
http://www.aboutislam.com/
http://www.allahassurance.com/
http://www.FaithFreedome.org
http://www.Islam-Watch.com
http://www.wikiislam.com
http://www.light-of-life.com
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/index.html
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
http://www.uacradiojihad.com/
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm
http://www.islam-watch.org/index.html
http://khalas.wordpress.com/
http://www.prophetmohammed.co.uk/
http://www.geertwilders.nl/
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/
http://www.allaboutmuhammad.com/
http://islam-documents.org/
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
http://www.stopsharialaw.com/
http://adeeperlookweblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.muslimhope.com/
http://www.islameyat.com/
http://www.islamreview.com
http://www.muhammadanism.com/
http://www.thequran .com
http://www.mosque. com
http://www.newislam .org/
http://www.answeringinfidels. com
http://www.islamundressed.com/
http://www.challenging-islam. org/
http://www.exmuslim .com/
http://www.apostatesofislam. com/

And many, many more. Of course, I could have also posted pro-Islam websites, there are tons of them too in the internet, by both Muslims and non-Muslims, but you wouldn't be interested, right? No, I am not your human friend, I don't consider you my human enemy either. You don't want a Muslim as a friend, you just insulted him and his religioin. It's beyond you.

QUOTE

See, you are lacking in knowledge about your own history. Nope, that's my history too because I have Persian blood within me. Anyway, check out some facts about Ar-Razi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi

His book entitled: The Prophets' Fraudulent Tricks (مخارق الانبياء ) criticized prophets. He was obviously not the type you should meddle with, he is freethinker alright.He even criticized the Quran. Please do not claim him as your own, okay.

As for Ibnu Sina, suffice to say that he was branded as apostate later. He was deeply influenced by the philosophy of Aristotle. But of course you guys tried to save face by claiming him as your own.

Ash'ari theologians, especially al-Ghazali and Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, criticized him due to the contrast of some of his ideas to that of the Qur'an and Hadith. Al-Ghazali, in his famous work The Incoherence of the Philosophers (Tahafat al-Falasafah), criticized Avicenna in three cases: First, qadim, that is the world has no beginning in the past and is not created in time. Second, that God's knowledge includes only classes of beings (universals) and does not extend to individual beings and their circumstances (particulars), and third, bodily resurrection, i.e. after death the souls of humans will never again return into bodies. According to al-Ghazali, in these three cases the teachings of Islam, which are based on revelation, suggest the opposite and thus overrule the unfounded claims of Avicenna.[72]

He accused Avicenna of disbelief in Islam and even argued that it was fard to consider him a Kafir, despite the fact that Avicenna accepted the shortage of his own philosophy in several works, including The Book of Healing, where he confessed that he can not prove bodily resurrection but accepts it on the basis of faith.[73][74] In the following period, in the wake of Avicenna's Peripatetic philosophy in the 11th and 12th centuries, Ash'ari theology was predominant in the eastern Islamic lands. Of course, as Henry Corbin mentions, Avicennism didn't fade away by such criticisms in the Muslim world, especially in Iran.[75][76]


Source: ^ Al-Ghazali by Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, First published Tue 14 Aug, 2007, Corbin, (1993) p. 174
# ^ Nasr, (2006) p. 86 and 87

There is no further proof needed for Al-Farabi, Umar Khayyam, Ibn Rawandi, Al-Ma'arri. You go and research about them and tell me.

I repeat, the Arabs, after conquering PERSIA, INDIA, SPAIN, had accessed to many scientific literature of the Greek, Egyptian, Indian and Chinese, the enlighten one among them translated these manuscripts to Arabic. The one who pioneered this was: Hunayn Ibn Ishak, a Nestorian Christian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunayn_ibn_Ishaq

Give credit where credit due, please, my civil and polite human.

Not worth my time to respond to these lies of yours, as I said above