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Asia Finest Discussion Forum > Asian Culture > Cambodian / Khmer Chat
angkorwat19
QUOTE
We, the Indian Kambojas, collectively & individually value our ancient historical, cultural and ethnic connections with our Khmer Cambodian brethren, the proud sucessors of one of the most wonderous civilazions of yester years. We proudly recognize that we both people do have the same ancient proud Indian/Kamboja blood coursing through our respective veins. We learn through the very informative writings of our learned friend Prof Jim Yost that our Cambodian-Khmer brethern are fighting a grim battle of survival to keep alive their proud ancient Kamboja/Kambuja heritage and their ancient connections with mother India. In this critical struggle, we assure our Khmer brethren that we all Indians Kambojas and in fact all Indians stand solidly behind them and pledge our full moral support to them in their struggle against the forces/powers, whatever they be, which are at work to wipe out their proude, distinct ancient Indian/Kamboja identity. Also, we strongly appeal to our Indian brothers & sisters, the intellectuals, as well our Indian government to come to the aid of the Khmer Cambodians and give them all possible political and moral support in their righteous struggle to maintain their prestigious Khmer/Kamboja cultural indentity.


afterall, our country was called "Kambuja". which makes me wonder if it's true or not that those indo-aryans of "Kamboja" really did migrated to SEAsia and helped found "Kambuja". or is it just a coincidence with the names?
PervertBurger
I think ancient Khmers were and some of the full Khmers are today.
angkorwat19
i think it's very possible that there are some or a lot of khmers today that have aryan blood. i can't find the quote but one visitor to angkor wrote that the "kumars(khmers) had fair complexion and aryan features."

here's a link http://indiaculture.net/talk/messages/128/...html?1023050299
Dara
yay you're back. biggrin.gif

I'm not sure on this matter. Do you have a pic of what they look like?
angkorwat19
the angkorian khmers were not aryans but they may have intermixed with the kambojan tribe from northern india who might've migrated to SEAsia. those people are aryans.

i don't have pics dara.
PervertBurger
Damn. If anyone can find pics please do us a favor a post them.
Point_Dexter
Kamboja(India) is the motherland
Kamboja(Cambodia) is the golden apex
Kamboja(Bali) is the final refuge of the Kamboja Peoples.
Thaicoon
embarassedlaugh.gif

cambos are aryans?? arent aryans the nazis?

embarassedlaugh.gif
Thay_
QUOTE (Thaicoon @ Dec 12 2004, 01:40 PM)
embarassedlaugh.gif

cambos are aryans?? arent aryans the nazis?

embarassedlaugh.gif
*

QUOTE
[EXTREMLY LARGE]Aryan is an English word derived from the Vedic Sanskrit and Avestan term arya, meaning noble.[/EXTREMELY LARGE]

One of the meanings of this term in modern English refers to a hypothetical single group of people who spoke the parent language of the Indo-European languages (the people known as Proto-Indo-Europeans). It has at times been believed that these people formed an ethnic group; Aryan as used by Max Müller and others in the 19th century is thus synonymous to Proto-Indo-European (see also Indo-European studies). Müller explicitly stated that his use of Aryan meant a group defined not by racial but by linguistic unity. Used as a linguistic term today, Aryan usually refers to the Indo-Iranian language family, or to its Indian sub-branch known as Indo-Aryan.

Another meaning refers to the Aryan race, a presumedly more or less directly descendant ethnic group of this original Aryan group. This meaning was, and still is common in theories of European racial superiority, some of which have spread to North America and to India. In Nazi ideology, the Germanic race is believed to be the purest representative of the Aryan race with its diametrical opposite being the Semitic race, represented by the Jews. Nazism portrays the Aryan race as the only race capable of creating culture and civilizations, while other races are merely capable of some preservation, or destruction of, culture.

It has been argued that the term *arya was originally used to denote kinfolk or clansmen bound by socio-linguistic, not ethnic, ties. It has been used in later times as a general term of respect, signifying nobility, in both Hinduism (the descendant of Vedic religion) and Buddhism. It has also been argued that the supposition that the term referred to an ethnic group arose as the result of speculative translation. Indeed, it is now generally accepted that the Aryans (in the sense of "Indo-Iranians") were already a heterogeneous group at the time of their cohesion roughly around 2500 BC. Based on current knowledge of ancient India and Iran, it is probable that the Aryans at that time were a mixed group of people following a similar religion, in all likelihood originating in the Middle East around what is now Iran.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

aryan isn't always refer to the Nazi, only the nazi bring the popularity of the term and their connection. beerchug.gif Defining the meaning before you laugh or you might laugh at yourself... eek.gif

QUOTE
What is the link between Kamboj Community and Kambodia (Cambodia). Kamboj is the ancient Hindu name for the country known as Cambodia/Kampuchea..

Kambodia people belongs to Khmer race. Are Khmer different race compared to the Indian Kambojas?


THE KHMER PEOPLE were among the first in Southeast Asia to adopt religious ideas and political institutions from India and to establish centralized kingdoms encompassing large territories. The earliest known kingdom in the area, Funan, flourished from around the first to the sixth century A.D. It was succeeded by Chenla, which controlled large areas of modern Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand (known as Siam until 1939). The golden age of Khmer civilization, however, was the period from the ninth to the thirteenth century, when the kingdom of Kambuja, which gave Kampuchea, or Cambodia, its name, ruled large territories from its capital in the region of Angkor in western Cambodia.

Under Jayavarman VII (1181-ca. 1218), Kambuja reached its zenith of political power and cultural creativity. Following Jayavarman VII's death, Kambuja experienced gradual decline. Important factors were the aggressiveness of neighboring peoples (especially the Thai, or Siamese), chronic interdynastic strife, and the gradual deterioration of the complex irrigation system that had ensured rice surpluses. The Angkorian monarchy survived until 1431, when the Thai captured Angkor Thom and the Cambodian king fled to the southern part of his country.

The fifteenth to the nineteenth century was a period of continued decline and territorial loss. Cambodia enjoyed a brief period of prosperity during the sixteenth century because its kings, who built their capitals in the region southeast of the Tonle Sap (Great Lake) along the Mekong River, promoted trade with other parts of Asia. This was the period when Spanish and Portuguese adventurers and missionaries first visited the country. But the Thai conquest of the new capital at Lovek in 1594 marked a downturn in the country's fortunes and Cambodia became a pawn in power struggles between its two increasingly powerful neighbors, Siam and Vietnam. Vietnam's settlement of the Mekong Delta led to its annexation of that area at the end of the seventeenth century. Cambodia thereby lost some of its richest territory and was cut off from the sea. Such foreign encroachments continued through the first half of the nineteenth century because Vietnam was determined to absorb Khmer land and to force the inhabitants to accept Vietnamese culture. Such imperialistic policies created in the Khmer an abiding suspicion of their eastern neighbors that flared into violent confrontation after the Khmer Rouge (see Appendix B) established its regime in 1975.

In 1863 King Norodom signed an agreement with the French to establish a protectorate over his kingdom. The country gradually came under French colonial domination. During World War II, the Japanese allowed the French government (based at Vichy) that collaborated with the Nazis the Vichy French to continue administering Cambodia and the other Indochinese territories, but they also fostered Khmer nationalism. Cambodia enjoyed a brief period of independence in 1945 before Allied troops restored French control. King Norodom Sihanouk, who had been chosen by France to succeed King Monivong in 1941, rapidly assumed a central political role as he sought to neutralize leftist and republican opponents and attempted to negotiate acceptable terms for independence from the French. Sihanouk's "royal crusade for independence" resulted in grudging French acquiescence to his demands for a transfer of sovereignty. A partial agreement was struck in October 1953. Sihanouk then declared that independence had been achieved and returned in triumph to Phnom Penh. The following year, as a result of the Geneva Conference on Indochina, Cambodia was able to bring about the withdrawal of the Viet Minh (see Appendix B) troops from its territory and to withstand any residual impingement upon its sovereignty by external powers.

In order to play a more active role in national politics, Sihanouk abdicated in 1955 and placed his father, Norodom Suramarit, on the throne. Now only a prince, Sihanouk organized his own political movement, the Popular Socialist Community, (Sangkum Reastr Niyum, or Sangkum), which won all the seats in the National Assembly in the 1955 election. The Sangkum dominated the political scene until the late 1960s. Sihanouk's highly personal ruling style made him immensely popular with the people, especially in rural villages. Although the Sangkum was backed by conservative interests, Sihanouk included leftists in his government, three of whom--Khieu Samphan, Hou Yuon, and Hu Nim--later became leaders of the Khmer Rouge. In 1963 he announced the nationalization of banking, foreign trade, and insurance in a socialist experiment that dried up foreign investment and alienated the right wing. In foreign relations, Sihanouk pursued a policy of neutrality and nonalignment. He accepted United States economic and military aid, but he also promoted close relations with China and attempted to keep on good terms with the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam). The principal objectives of his foreign policy were to preserve Cambodia's independence and to keep the country out of the widening conflict in neighboring Vietnam. Relations with Washington grew stormy in the early 1960s. In 1963 the prince rejected further United States aid, and, two years later, he severed diplomatic relations.

Both the domestic and the international situations had deteriorated by the late 1960s. The increasingly powerful right wing challenged Sihanouk's control of the political system. Peasant resentment over harsh tax collection measures and the expropriation of land to build a sugar refinery led to a violent revolt in 1967 in the northwestern province of Batdambang (Battambang). The armed forces, commanded by General Lon Nol (who was also prime minister), quelled the revolt, but a communist-led insurgency spread throughout the country. The spillover of the Second Indochina War (or Vietnam War) into the Cambodian border areas also was becoming a serious problem. Apparently one factor in Sihanouk's decision to reestablish relations with Washington in 1969 was his fear of further incursions by the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong (see Appendix B). In March 1970, however, he was overthrown by General Lon Nol and other right-wing leaders, who seven months later abolished the monarchy and established the Khmer Republic (see Appendix B).

The Khmer Republic faced not only North Vietnamese and Viet Cong combat units but also an effective, homegrown communist movement that grew more lethal as time went on. The Cambodian communists, whom Sihanouk had labeled Khmer Rouge, traced their movement back to the struggle for independence and the creation in 1951, under Vietnamese auspices, of the Kampuchean (or Khmer) People's Revolutionary Party (KPRP--see Appendix B). During the early 1960s, however, a group of Paris-trained communist intellectuals, of whom the most important were Saloth Sar (known as Pol Pot after 1976), Khieu Samphan, and Ieng Sary, seized control of the party. They gradually purged or neutralized rivals whom they considered too subservient to Vietnam. After the March 1970 coup d'état that toppled Sihanouk, the Khmer Rouge formed a united front with the ousted leader, a move that won them the goodwill of peasants who were still loyal to the prince.

Despite massive United States aid to the newly proclaimed Khmer Republic and the bombing of North Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge installations and troop concentrations in the countryside, the Phnom Penh regime rapidly lost most of the country's territory to the communists. In January 1975 communist forces laid siege to Phnom Penh, and in succeeding months they tightened the noose around the capital. On April 1, 1975, President Lon Nol left the country. Sixteen days later Khmer Rouge troops entered the city.

The forty-four months the Khmer Rouge were in power was a period of unmitigated suffering for the Khmer people. Although the severity of revolutionary policies varied from region to region because of ideological differences and the personal inclinations of local leaders, hundreds of thousands of people starved, died from disease, or were executed. "New people" (the intelligentsia and those from the cities--those new to the rural areas), being considered politically unreliable, were special targets of terror and of a harsh, unremitting regime of forced labor. In 1977 Pol Pot launched a bloody purge within the communist ranks that accounted for many deaths. The slaughter of the Vietnamese minority living in Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge's aggressive incursions into Vietnam led to fighting with Vietnam in 1977 and 1978. In December 1978, Vietnamese forces invaded the country. On January 7, 1979, they captured Phnom Penh and began to establish the People's Republic of Kampuchea (PRK--see Appendix B; fig. 1). The Khmer Rouge fled to isolated corners of the country and resumed their guerrilla struggle, which continued in the late 1980s.

Article will be continued after few days...

http://kambojsociety.com/kambodia.asp
angkorwat19
QUOTE (Point_Dexter @ Dec 12 2004, 12:44 AM)
Kamboja(India) is the motherland
Kamboja(Cambodia) is the golden apex
Kamboja(Bali) is the final refuge of the Kamboja Peoples.

*

So were the Kambojans of northern India really responsible for the Angkor civilization?
PervertBurger
I think it was a joint thing.

Indians helping Khmer
Khmer helping Indians.

Khmer were building their society before they met the Indians.
When the Indians came then came a respectful relationship.
Byron
lol nice "theory". Just because your influenced by someone doesn't mean you are them. It's like saying Japanese are white since they have Western influence.

I really doubt that every Cambodian has Indian blood. Those Khmers and Indians must have been really horny to do screw around with each other to cause 100% of the Khmer population to have Indian blood. I'm sure when the Indian people came to Cambodia they mixed, but how many of them? I really doubt they did every Khmer out there and gave all Khmers born after Indian blood.
angkorwat19
QUOTE (Byron @ Dec 13 2004, 11:45 PM)
lol nice "theory".  Just because your influenced by someone doesn't mean you are them.  It's like saying Japanese are white since they have Western influence.

I really doubt that every Cambodian has Indian blood.  Those Khmers and Indians must have been really horny to do screw around with each other to cause 100% of the Khmer population to have Indian blood.  I'm sure when the Indian people came to Cambodia they mixed, but how many of them?  I really doubt they did every Khmer out there and gave all Khmers born after Indian blood.  lol
*

hey, the khmers didn't claim they were indians. the quote i put up was of an indian person who claimed khmers are indians.
Byron
Are these Kambojans even true Indians or just an ethnic minority that live in India?
angkorwat19
they are aryans in descent from northern india who built the kingdom of Kamboja in the 10th or 11th century in the region of bengal. funny thing is, Kambuja(khmer kingdom) was built before the Kambojans built their own kingdom. but the word Kambuja was really derived from Kamboja. these northern kambojas may have interbred with the local khmers. one visitor to angkor wrote: "The Kumars[Khmers] had fair comlexion and aryan features."
Byron
I really doubt a band of people visiting Cambodia could have mixed with all Cambodians to give them all Indian blood.
angkorwat19
well, i don't think that's what the quote was saying. he's really saying that there are many khmers who may have some indian blood in them and the rest of khmers can share the historical and cultural connection with the indians. for those of you who stereotypes khmers as being dark negritos. i do see khmers who's looks vary from being light,fair,dark and physical features of indian,aryan,mongoloid and austroloid. cambodia has a complicated history and there were many foreign travelers to angkor who can give some clues as to why there are "kumars(khmers) with aryan features. these people could've been the kambojans from northern india or a hybrid of khmer and indian. a lot of modern-day khmers are really hybrids of indian,khmer and mongoloid.
Point_Dexter
Its all B.S. I'll tell yah

Some Indian Text Books lisk Angkor as an Indian Kingdom. Thats like saying Dai Viet, Korea, and Japan are Chinese Kingdoms, which is not.

Kamboja/Kambuja.... could all just be a coincidence.

There's Ayudya India, and Ayuthaya Tai kingdom.... yet no Indian relation
There's Haripujaya India, and Haripunchai Mon Kingdom....yet no relation
There's Indrapura India, amd Indrapura Champa Kingdom... yet no relation... Theres was even 2 Indrapura's in Cambodia.
There's Singhapura India, Singhaborey Cambodia, Singapore Malay, and Singhapura Champa......and again no Indian relation.

I'll tell yah, these Kamboja of Northern India are full of it.

All of those Names Including Kamboja/Kambuja are nothing more then Sansrkit TAGS.

Whoop de dooo!
holamon
I actually agreed with Dextor.
angkorwat19
yeah.. i found it funny that the Kambojan tribes built there kingdom almost 300 years later after khmers built theirs. Kambuja(khmer)is actually older than Kamboja(indo-aryan).
Menikani
I read this over a year ago, at first, I gave it credibility as a possible theory. I notice a lot of the claims in the discussion are weak and debatable.
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