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YasukeKomiya
We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.
filipinoy
you completely misunderstood Pepe.. & took some of his words the wrong way. if only that show "Bayani" before was possible... you travel in time engage in our ancestors' struggle... also talk & asked questions to them.
YasukeKomiya
Then what did Rizal? I don't remember him advocating independence just reforms through peaceful means. Even Ghandi wanted full indepence rather than allow his nation to be some1 else's dog.
juansuing
QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Dec 17 2010, 11:35 PM) *
We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.


Read Noli and El Fili to understand what Rizal really wanted for the country. And if you can find a copy, his third unfinished sequel to El Fili called "Makamisa" is also worth reading.
Confused43
I'm not educated in Rizal, and I'm not even Filipino, but don't give up. Take some lessons from American history. Yeah sure we have developed a national cult for independence based on Greco-Roman ideals, ideals imitated in the Philippines btw. But keep in mind, the great statesman first advocated reform within the British Empire first. He wanted what is today a Canadian-like government within the empire. Read up on the Albany Plan. It was only after this idea failed he jumped on the independence bandwagon. It isn't at all unusual for great statesmen to advocate for reform first.

And just because the Philippines is impoverished doesn't mean it isn't a great nation. I've always been captivated with Filipino history, like in modern times when Cory Aquino took power after Marcos. I couldn't name you a single Vietnamese, Korean, or even Japanese leader, but I know more than a few Filipino leaders, and before my stepmom had zero connections with the country. I think that says something.

First of all the Philippines is a fascinated blend of Malay, Arabic, Spanish, and American culture. In a weird way, it is the legacy of the "American empire" which in and of itself is fascinating. I mean, there are 294829483 former British colonies, but how many actually have an American heritage. Filipinos don't just speak English, they speak American English, that's pretty cool and unique.

The same can be said for being Spain's imprint in East Asia. And, I haven't even mentioned the Arabic influence. Some familes are as likely to have Hashemite heritage in the Visayas as Spanish.

But take all of this away and you have an interesting local culture. I've always wondered why this wasn't explored more. Like originally was the Philippines Hindu or Buddhist before the arrival of the Muslims? Like Indonesia?

Why use the Roman alphabet for Tagalog and other Filipino languages? Why not use Babayin or even the Javanese script, Hanacaraka, which is just beautiful, or even (though probably not popular in these times), Arabic, as in Malaysia in some places?

I've always looked upon the Philippines as one of the countries with great potential. I see others in this list too like Zimbabwe, Russia, Vietnam, etc. There's no reason it cannot be a powerhouse again. It is ideally situated next door to China, as a bridge to Europe and Latin America (Spain) and the United States to the east. And, the American heritage gives it a unique connection to neighboring Anglic countries such as India and Australia as well. You just have to have faith in yourselves.

I think the Philippines should actually take a page from China. China created a series of SEZs (special economic zones) starting with Shenzhen and made these strong, economic city-states not unlike Singapore. Eventually these grew and grew the Chinese economy to where it is today. The Philippines could start off with an area such as Makati for one of these SEZs, it is one of the few strong growth areas I can think of. I also believe Clark is an experiment in this endeavor. I also believe the hot climate plays a role. Hot weather can make people lethargic and tired. I've noticed that most of the world's economic giants are in cold areas, most of the poor are tropical. The Philippine government should try an economic experiment in a cool area, such as the temperate city of Baguio and see if economic growth can be stimulated there and if the weather is a connection.

Some ideas.
Barilin-Kita
QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Dec 18 2010, 05:35 AM) *
We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.



Ahhh, another someone waking up to the sweet smell of coffee. Good read, shame not enough peeps take it a step further.
matigasngulo
if you want to hear a feel-good story listen to this one, i was thinking about this a while ago:

if you look closely, both Japan and the Philippines have followed a three step path to modernity, without losing touch to what they are

1) Japan modernized, destroyed it's feudal system, embraced English liberalism
1) Filipino Ilustrados were in fact, more philosophe, more humanistic than even their Italian, French or German counterparts and wanted to spread the Enlightenment to the Islas Filipinas, even if it meant using Spanish to achieve that goal (later, it was English)

2) Japan copied Fascism, but adapted it to their traditions, militaristic spirit and their emperor. We know how that ended.
2) Philippines adapted the cutting edge of Progressive liberalism and socialist governance during the Commonwealth. We know how that ended.

3) Japan rebuilt their country, made their technological revolution, their Anime / Pop / Hentai are everywhere.
3) Philippines well, have some nostalgia, to some hip 1960s / 1970s ideal to be exact. Still, it looks good.

YasukeKomiya
Woah you have a good point, never thought about comparing those 2 (even though i studied their histories alot since both are my homelands). Well I can't change what Pepe said but at least i may have a chance to change its future (and Japan, for some reason i fear for her)
LazyAzian
Jose Rizal wanted the Philippines to become independent without having to resort to war.

The first step was being a colony, then becoming a province. Being a province allowed more development, possibly more influx of Spaniards coming into the Philippines thus it would've given more priority to the islands when people from Spain themselves were inhabiting them, more contact with Spain, and allowed more autonomy.

If this way worked the scenario would've been similar to Canada that was finally granted complete independence from the UK in 1982 without having to resort to war, simply Queen Elizabeth signed papers and passed in the Parliament which did not allow the British Parliament any power to amend the Canadian constituion, similar to British Hong Kong who were just granted autonomy in 1997, or similar to the French, Dutch and Spanish provinces and territories in South America and the Carribbean where year they constantly do votes on whether they should grant themselves autonomy or not and it is often based on how well their colonial powers take care of them.

Unfortunately La Liga Filipina was dissolved the moment Jose Rizal died and this plan was never realized, instead the Philippines resorted in a very messy Revolution. Revolutions tend to be used as last resorts since the aftermath is very messy, unstable governments, etc. Just look at France and USA after their independence, they had civil wars, etc.

The Philippines was granted a second chance with the Americans, they made the Philippines a Commonwealth, and the Americans granted Independence without resorting to war.

Unfortunately the Philippines still managed to make itself a poor, messed up, problematic, corrupt country. It was basically given a chance to undo the messy aftermath of the Philippine Revolution.
YasukeKomiya
Well from what i have seen most former british colonies have done well cause the colonial govt. worked well and thus a fit model to follow after the colony gained independence. While the Spanish govt. was probably good in Spain their colonial govts. were bastards. Most former Spanish colonies would have corruption and various problems since most wouldn't have a fit role model or the natives had no exp. in govt since they weren't given chance. well once again dam spanairds but that is not important now
Prau123
QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Dec 25 2010, 05:51 PM) *
Well from what i have seen most former british colonies have done well cause the colonial govt. worked well and thus a fit model to follow after the colony gained independence. While the Spanish govt. was probably good in Spain their colonial govts. were bastards. Most former Spanish colonies would have corruption and various problems since most wouldn't have a fit role model or the natives had no exp. in govt since they weren't given chance. well once again dam spanairds but that is not important now


I use to think this way also. If we look at the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, they are all first-world nations, and these countries were colonized by the British. But if we look at Latin America, the Philippines, and some of the Pacific Islands, which were colonized by the Spanish, they are generally considered third-world countries. It would be easy for one to conclude that British colonies were developed better as compared to Spanish colonies. However, the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are largley majority British or European in population, and it was they that developed the country to become a first-world nation, and not the indigenous population such as the Native Americans of the USA or Canada, the Aborigines of Australia, or the Maori of New Zealand. Most of their indigenous populations were put into reservation lands, and these lands are in the middle of no-where with very little resources or good land to work with. Many of them were also sadly killed, and virtually all of them for centuries were discriminated. South Africa was also colonized by the British, and I believe they are considered a first-world nation. In this case, the British and European population are a minority, something like 10% of the population. But they as a minority were in control of the country, and the majority indigenous African population were under apartheid. So it was the minority that developed South Africa to become a first-world nation with perhaps the cheap labor and talented skills of the majority African population.

If we look at the Indian subcontinent, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka are also considered third-world countries, and yet they were colonized by the British. Singapore and Hong Kong are first-world countries that were colonized by the British, but they are relatively small countries. Singapore became successfully after its independence, and it was largely the Singaporeans themselves that made them successful. I want to see a good size country that was successful, and I only can think of Malaysia, but just like Singapore, it was after Malaysia's independence/formation that this happened, and I can't honestly say how much the British were involved in the development of the economy of today's Malaysia.

Spain's colonies tended to have large indigenous populations that also have an advance civilization. In Mexico you have the Aztec civilization, and remnants of the Mayan civilization, and all the other indigenous groups. In Peru, you have large Inca/Quechan, in Bolivia you have large Aymara populations, and in Chile you have large Mapuche populations.

In fairness to the British, the Spanish probably would not have done as good of a job in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa. From what I know, and please feel free to correct me, the Spaniards generally were involved in trade of natural resources or materials, mining, agriculture, and ravaging the treasures of the Incas and the Aztecs. Much of the gold circulating today in the world may come from the melting down of Inca and Aztec treasures. Again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The Spanish did not develop capitalistic economies. It was the British during the 1800s that supposedly started the Industrial Revolution. The British created large trade and industry throughout the world. But again it was not the indigenous populations that played a major role in the development of these British colonies, many of whom as mentioned earlier were reduced to small populations, put in reservation lands, and discriminated. This is also why several African slaves were imported.

I just want to clarify that after the 13 colonies gained independence from England, the Americans (who were largely of British or European ancestary) would go on to take over the other 47 states. Technically, the Americans were no longer part of the British Empire at that point, and so the British technically cannot be blamed for the take over of the remaining 47 states. The Americans bought much of the Mid-West from Napoleon Bonaparte of France, and then fought the Spanish for the Western states. The Native Americans were probably suffering from diseases introduced by Europeans that they had no resistance to, and were losing their populations quickly, but it was also America's foreign policy called "Manifest Destiny" that pushed them to acquire the lands beyond the 13 colonies, and further beyond to Central America, the Carribean, the Pacific, and the Philippines.
Prau123
The Philippines is a third-world nation today only partly because of its Spanish colonial roots. We have to take responsibility for our actions as well. The Philippines has been independent from Spain for over 100 years, and independent from the USA for over 50 years. Yes we still have remnants of the Spanish colony in us such as the hacienda sytem, and the rich mestizo class, but the mestizos are dwindling in numbers, and are heavily intermarrying with the local population and therefore their status as mestizo is being blurred, and many of the former rich mestizo families have gradually become middle-class. Many mestizos also left the Philippines after World War II.
YasukeKomiya
QUOTE (Prau123 @ Dec 25 2010, 08:39 PM) *
The Philippines is a third-world nation today only partly because of its Spanish colonial roots. We have to take responsibility for our actions as well. The Philippines has been independent from Spain for over 100 years, and independent from the USA for over 50 years. Yes we still have remnants of the Spanish colony in us such as the hacienda sytem, and the rich mestizo class, but the mestizos are dwindling in numbers, and are heavily intermarrying with the local population and therefore their status as mestizo is being blurred, and many of the former rich mestizo families have gradually become middle-class. Many mestizos also left the Philippines after World War II.

Ya that is what i meant when it is not important now that part of our corruption takes root in colonial Philippines under Spain. They have been gone for some time now and the fact is today the Spaniards are replaced with our own people who screw us over just as badly (and in some cases worse). The fault mostly lays with us now and its about time we start getting things right. We were once great, we were 2nd to Japan in economy in Asia and before the Spaniards came we were trading with various nations. We only have ourselves to blame (govt. and the local people)
LazyAzian
One thing is that we shouldn't blame our Spanish roots for being a poor country.

Mind you that we were an American Commonwealth for 50 years. Blaming the Spaniards is stupid, they haven't ruled the country in 150 years!

The Spanish system was flawed, I believe it reflected the government of Spain at the time which was itself very much corrupted.

The British government made the smooth transition from Absolute Monarchy to Constitutional Monarchy. The British invented Magna Carta! Their system of government worked for them, and so internal conflicts were minimal when they started colonizing,

Spain was occupied by the French Empire under Napoleon Bonparte, had a Civil War and their government shifted from Republic to Monarchy.

We had Spain as our colonizer, who already had problems of its own.

Most Filipinos do not know that when the Philippine Revolution ocurred, Spain was just adjusting itself after becomign a Republic then having the Monarchy restored. Internal issues get in the way of handling overseas possessions.

You'd honestly think Spain would care about it's Asian colony when it was having its own problems?

It reminds me of Roman Britain, a province of the Roman Empire which was left to fend for its own against its enemies because the Roman Empire had it's own problems and could care less about some distant province they posses in the British Isles.

Basically: Most former colonies are a reflection of the state of the government of their colonizers.
YasukeKomiya
QUOTE (LazyAzian @ Dec 26 2010, 08:08 AM) *
One thing is that we shouldn't blame our Spanish roots for being a poor country.

Mind you that we were an American Commonwealth for 50 years. Blaming the Spaniards is stupid, they haven't ruled the country in 150 years!

The Spanish system was flawed, I believe it reflected the government of Spain at the time which was itself very much corrupted.

The British government made the smooth transition from Absolute Monarchy to Constitutional Monarchy. The British invented Magna Carta! Their system of government worked for them, and so internal conflicts were minimal when they started colonizing,

Spain was occupied by the French Empire under Napoleon Bonparte, had a Civil War and their government shifted from Republic to Monarchy.

We had Spain as our colonizer, who already had problems of its own.

Most Filipinos do not know that when the Philippine Revolution ocurred, Spain was just adjusting itself after becomign a Republic then having the Monarchy restored. Internal issues get in the way of handling overseas possessions.

You'd honestly think Spain would care about it's Asian colony when it was having its own problems?

It reminds me of Roman Britain, a province of the Roman Empire which was left to fend for its own against its enemies because the Roman Empire had it's own problems and could care less about some distant province they posses in the British Isles.

Basically: Most former colonies are a reflection of the state of the government of their colonizers.


well in reality it is only a partial part of why we are not doing well. In reality the Philippines under Spanish rule was never that rich, throughout the years kings in Spain have been encourages to give up the island but most didn't since they saw the Philippines as the potential to spread Catholicism in Asia. Ironic that they were the ones who caused their own econ probs in the Philippines. We were already trading with so many nations but instead the Spanish chose to cut that off and just have the Acapulco trade which wasn't really much compared to what the Philippines had. Like I said though we cannot blame them since they have been long gone.
LazyAzian
QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Dec 26 2010, 03:19 PM) *
well in reality it is only a partial part of why we are not doing well. In reality the Philippines under Spanish rule was never that rich, throughout the years kings in Spain have been encourages to give up the island but most didn't since they saw the Philippines as the potential to spread Catholicism in Asia. Ironic that they were the ones who caused their own econ probs in the Philippines. We were already trading with so many nations but instead the Spanish chose to cut that off and just have the Acapulco trade which wasn't really much compared to what the Philippines had. Like I said though we cannot blame them since they have been long gone.


Actually the Philippines was quite rich during the Spanish era.

If you only saw Intramuros, Manila and Iloilo during the Spanish period you'd marvel at the European, East Asian and South Asian treasures.

Spanish Philippines, known as "Spanish East Indies" or "Indias Orientales Espańolas," traded with China, India, Southeast Asia, etc. It had consuls in Japan, Spain, Mexico and Hong Kong. It traded with India for spices, which was very expensive in Europe, flavours such as Cinnamon was desired.

Much of the wealth remained in Intramuros where the Philippine-born Spaniards and Spanish-Filipinos lived. It did not spread throughout the archipelago.

Manila has a Steel Cathedral, Basilica of San Sebastian, one of the first steel Churches in the world, in which the whole building was pre-built in Europe designed by a French architect and exported to the Philippines!

Intramuros was a treasure, I'd estimate the total cost of it today had every building, object, thing in the area been intact would be around billions of US dollars.

Numerous architectures in Intramuros and Iloilo were designed by Spanish and French architects, many had imported furnitures from Venice, Italy, sculptures and figures of Christian images from China, etc. Many churches had altars which were so ornate it would rival the ones in Europe.

The treasures of the Spanish period was all gone the moment WWII happened and many of these treasures were bombed.

That's not to say inhabitants themselves were rich.

As I said, the Philippines was a fairly wealthy country, many British, French and Dutch merchants even lived in Manila and settled in Luzon and Visayas, marrying the natives.

However the wealth distribution was uneven, much of the wealthy kept the wealth for themselves. But if we added up all the wealth of the wealthy Filipinos it was staggering.

Imagine the upperclass Filipinos, they made up around 10% of the population, had enough wealth to go study in Paris, France and Madrid, Spain, travelling around Germany and Italy?! Being enrolled into Royal Academies, which many Europeans themselves had to recieve scholarship to afford!?
islander
Plenty of Spanish Silver dollars went from Mexico via the Philippines to China. The Silver dollars became Mexican when the Spanish left Mexico. So the Philippines was seeing plenty of Mexican Silver dollars and plenty of silver coins from other independent latin american nations. Problem was that they were not all the same quality. So the Spanish created a mint in the mid 19 century in Manila which turned out Philippines Silver dollars.

Following photo show an 1885 Manila Peseta since they were minted in Manila by the Spanish. Spain stopped using the Peseta when they went to the Euro. But in Puerto Rico which stopped using Spanish money including the Spanish Peseta over 100 years ago has not stopped using the word Peseta. They just started calling the US Quarter a Peseta.



When it comes to Rizal wanting more autonomy from Spain. they did the same thing in Puerto Rico which did get some autonomy. It only lasted a few months and ended with US invasion. Majority of politicians in Cuba wanted nothing to do with autonomy since they wanted independence. Rizal probably wanted to avoid a conflict like the devastating war in Cuba so he first asked for autonomy.


Someone forgot to mention the Philippines-American war. It seems the US entrance into the Philippines was more violent with much losses for the Filipinos. US went into Cuba to so called help them in there fight for independence. But the people in Cuba were winning, it was just a matter of time. Then unfortunately, when the US got a foot in Cuba and pushed the Spanish out they turned Cuba into a US quasi-colony. People of Cuba were not even allowed by US to fly there flag in there capital city for two years. In the end you know what happened there.

Philippines was the same thing. The Philippines would in time have been independent without US help. Some need to remember that many of the Spanish troops in the Philippines were made up of Filipino militia. In time most would have probably changed sides. Read once that Filipino politicians came up with the idea of the Philippines being a US protectorate but that was turned down by the US.

Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.
YasukeKomiya
QUOTE (islander @ Dec 26 2010, 05:59 PM) *
Plenty of Spanish Silver dollars went from Mexico via the Philippines to China. The Silver dollars became Mexican when the Spanish left Mexico. So the Philippines was seeing plenty of Mexican Silver dollars and plenty of silver coins from other independent latin american nations. Problem was that they were not all the same quality. So the Spanish created a mint in the mid 19 century in Manila which turned out Philippines Silver dollars.

Following photo show an 1885 Manila Peseta since they were minted in Manila by the Spanish. Spain stopped using the Peseta when they went to the Euro. But in Puerto Rico which stopped using Spanish money including the Spanish Peseta over 100 years ago has not stopped using the word Peseta. They just started calling the US Quarter a Peseta.



When it comes to Rizal wanting more autonomy from Spain. they did the same thing in Puerto Rico which did get some autonomy. It only lasted a few months and ended with US invasion. Majority of politicians in Cuba wanted nothing to do with autonomy since they wanted independence. Rizal probably wanted to avoid a conflict like the devastating war in Cuba so he first asked for autonomy.


Someone forgot to mention the Philippines-American war. It seems the US entrance into the Philippines was more violent with much losses for the Filipinos. US went into Cuba to so called help them in there fight for independence. But the people in Cuba were winning, it was just a matter of time. Then unfortunately, when the US got a foot in Cuba and pushed the Spanish out they turned Cuba into a US quasi-colony. People of Cuba were not even allowed by US to fly there flag in there capital city for two years. In the end you know what happened there.

Philippines was the same thing. The Philippines would in time have been independent without US help. Some need to remember that many of the Spanish troops in the Philippines were made up of Filipino militia. In time most would have probably changed sides. Read once that Filipino politicians came up with the idea of the Philippines being a US protectorate but that was turned down by the US.

Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.


don't get me started on how America screwed over Latin America -_- back in the Cold War they had Latin American economy and even in some cases politics (which was tied to economic interests) in control from the shadows. Whenever some politician would talk about nationalizing resources or other things he would get killed by people (mostly a local) who was trained by the CIA.
YasukeKomiya
QUOTE (LazyAzian @ Dec 26 2010, 03:32 PM) *
Actually the Philippines was quite rich during the Spanish era.

If you only saw Intramuros, Manila and Iloilo during the Spanish period you'd marvel at the European, East Asian and South Asian treasures.

Spanish Philippines, known as "Spanish East Indies" or "Indias Orientales Espańolas," traded with China, India, Southeast Asia, etc. It had consuls in Japan, Spain, Mexico and Hong Kong. It traded with India for spices, which was very expensive in Europe, flavours such as Cinnamon was desired.

Much of the wealth remained in Intramuros where the Philippine-born Spaniards and Spanish-Filipinos lived. It did not spread throughout the archipelago.

Manila has a Steel Cathedral, Basilica of San Sebastian, one of the first steel Churches in the world, in which the whole building was pre-built in Europe designed by a French architect and exported to the Philippines!

Intramuros was a treasure, I'd estimate the total cost of it today had every building, object, thing in the area been intact would be around billions of US dollars.

Numerous architectures in Intramuros and Iloilo were designed by Spanish and French architects, many had imported furnitures from Venice, Italy, sculptures and figures of Christian images from China, etc. Many churches had altars which were so ornate it would rival the ones in Europe.

The treasures of the Spanish period was all gone the moment WWII happened and many of these treasures were bombed.

That's not to say inhabitants themselves were rich.

As I said, the Philippines was a fairly wealthy country, many British, French and Dutch merchants even lived in Manila and settled in Luzon and Visayas, marrying the natives.

However the wealth distribution was uneven, much of the wealthy kept the wealth for themselves. But if we added up all the wealth of the wealthy Filipinos it was staggering.

Imagine the upperclass Filipinos, they made up around 10% of the population, had enough wealth to go study in Paris, France and Madrid, Spain, travelling around Germany and Italy?! Being enrolled into Royal Academies, which many Europeans themselves had to recieve scholarship to afford!?


I never heard of this, some Spanish guy told me in general the Philippines wasn't that wealthy of a colony. Sure there probably were treasures but trade with other nations was mostly cut off. China was allowed trade but it heavily regulated since the Spanish didn't trust the Chinese (don't blame them, the Chinese would have blown them out of the water in business). There was even a time when there were more Chinese in Manila then Spaniards and revolts broke out only for them to be stamped out and heavier restrictions were put on the Chinese (later to be lifted). Personally it was a good thing the Spaniards never found out how wrong they were when it came to the Philippines resources. Also the Filipinos in who went to Europe to study got in cause there Asian =D hahaha jk well back then Filipino refered to a Spaniard born in the Philippines but im pretty sure there were some natives and mestizos who went to Europe (probably beating them cause there Asian XP once again kidding)
LazyAzian
QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Dec 26 2010, 11:15 PM) *
I never heard of this, some Spanish guy told me in general the Philippines wasn't that wealthy of a colony. Sure there probably were treasures but trade with other nations was mostly cut off. China was allowed trade but it heavily regulated since the Spanish didn't trust the Chinese (don't blame them, the Chinese would have blown them out of the water in business). There was even a time when there were more Chinese in Manila then Spaniards and revolts broke out only for them to be stamped out and heavier restrictions were put on the Chinese (later to be lifted). Personally it was a good thing the Spaniards never found out how wrong they were when it came to the Philippines resources. Also the Filipinos in who went to Europe to study got in cause there Asian =D hahaha jk well back then Filipino refered to a Spaniard born in the Philippines but im pretty sure there were some natives and mestizos who went to Europe (probably beating them cause there Asian XP once again kidding)


When I said Filipino I am using it to refer to the Natives.

There were already wealthy native Filipinos that studied in Europe.

Juan Luna for example studied in the Royal Academy of Arts in Madrid.

Also the Philippines did trade with countries like Hong Kong, Singapore, India and China.

It might have been minimal trading but either way it would have brought lots of money.

For one thing, the travel from Philippines to Mexico and then Spain took almost a whole year.

A simple Manton de Manila, originally from China, traded in the Philippines, shipped to Mexico, then traded, then shipped to Spain would've cost tons of money.

The goods traded from the Philippines were considered luxury items in Mexico and Spain, they were hard to get, they came from Asian countries which were very far.

Think of it as like in eBay, it's not the item itself that is expensive, it's the shipping fee!

As I said, imagine that cathedral, shipped all the way from Europe to the philippines, how much would it have costed? Staggering amounts. Only a fairly well off colony would've been able to fund such things.

The Spaniards underestimated the natural resources in the Philippines, they were much more focused on the aspect of having a posession in Asia where they can trade with other Asian countries.
Prau123
QUOTE (islander @ Dec 26 2010, 08:59 PM) *
Plenty of Spanish Silver dollars went from Mexico via the Philippines to China. The Silver dollars became Mexican when the Spanish left Mexico. So the Philippines was seeing plenty of Mexican Silver dollars and plenty of silver coins from other independent latin american nations. Problem was that they were not all the same quality. So the Spanish created a mint in the mid 19 century in Manila which turned out Philippines Silver dollars.

Following photo show an 1885 Manila Peseta since they were minted in Manila by the Spanish. Spain stopped using the Peseta when they went to the Euro. But in Puerto Rico which stopped using Spanish money including the Spanish Peseta over 100 years ago has not stopped using the word Peseta. They just started calling the US Quarter a Peseta.



When it comes to Rizal wanting more autonomy from Spain. they did the same thing in Puerto Rico which did get some autonomy. It only lasted a few months and ended with US invasion. Majority of politicians in Cuba wanted nothing to do with autonomy since they wanted independence. Rizal probably wanted to avoid a conflict like the devastating war in Cuba so he first asked for autonomy.


Someone forgot to mention the Philippines-American war. It seems the US entrance into the Philippines was more violent with much losses for the Filipinos. US went into Cuba to so called help them in there fight for independence. But the people in Cuba were winning, it was just a matter of time. Then unfortunately, when the US got a foot in Cuba and pushed the Spanish out they turned Cuba into a US quasi-colony. People of Cuba were not even allowed by US to fly there flag in there capital city for two years. In the end you know what happened there.

Philippines was the same thing. The Philippines would in time have been independent without US help. Some need to remember that many of the Spanish troops in the Philippines were made up of Filipino militia. In time most would have probably changed sides. Read once that Filipino politicians came up with the idea of the Philippines being a US protectorate but that was turned down by the US.

Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.



I just want to add that many of those Filipino WWII veterans who served under the U.S. military (since the Philippines was a commonwealth of the U.S.) were never given the benefits like the American WWII veterans from my understanding until just a few years ago. Unfortunately, many of these Filipino veterans have passed away, or will never fully benefit from those benefits in the short time that they have left to live. I'm not sure what the benefit package contains for them. Lastly, it may not take into consideration the interest accrued since 1945.

Basically after WWII the Philippines was left to solve its own problems. The U.S. did not want to spend money repairing the country, or compensate the Filipino veterans for their services which was under the U.S. military from my understanding. The Philippines was just a young independent nation. Perhaps the U.S. did not have the money after WWII, and had other concerns to deal with. But I feel that the Philippines was shortchanged. Basically if you're not going to be a part of the U.S., then why should U.S. money be used to help you? I think this is a little bit unfair. It's like leaving a wounded soldier on the battlefield to die since he or she is no longer useful.

But what I also want to say is that Filipinos especially after 1965 have benefited from its relationship with the U.S. since many Filipinos migrated to the U.S.. Many Americans also invest in the Philippines which helps the economy. The Philippines and the U.S. are good trading partners from my understanding. The Philippines relies on the U.S. for military protection also (at least that's what I think). I don't want to sound anti-American here, or paint America in a bad way.
trismegistos
QUOTE (islander @ Dec 26 2010, 08:59 PM) *
Why did the US give the Philippines its independence after fighting a war decades before to keep them. Remember, the Philippines was large, strategic and many resources. So why give them up. Answer was because the US did not want an influx of Filipinos in the US. They knew the Philippines population was increasing. The Philippines was not Guam or Puerto Rico which had a smaller more manageable population. You can even see it when they made the Philippines a Commonwealth. Only 50 Filipinos a year were allowed to migrate to the US while anyone from the US could migrate to the Philippines. A Filipino State would mean the House of Representatives would be at least 25% Filipino controlled. Do not think the old school of US politicians would go for that.

Jump to after WWII. Read once that the victors of the war decided to rebuild Japan has an industrial nation while leaving most of SE Asia including the Philippines has a supplier of raw resources to Japan. This explains alot.

And for anyone who has LinkTV, they had a program which explains why Latin America was so messed up. This could also explain the problems of the Philippines which is resource rich.

Watch this part One - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ

Part Two - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKPa8m07txg&NR=1

Part Three - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3cJ5IsCt5Q&NR=1

Part four - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPRJjP7h4Q4&NR=1

Part five - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&NR=1

Supposedly, the problems the US has today is due to the same things.

beerchug.gif
The problem of the world is the Global Debt problem. Brought about by the greed of the financial speculators and the financial cartel, the new neocolonial masters based on Wallstreet of NY and London, the same cabal behind the Inter-Alpha group.

Their time is almost up as more and more people are being enlightened of the various machinations of these vile oligarchs.

When will the Philippines ever stand up away from the economic breast of the US and become a First world nation? It's sooner than we think. After China had surpassed the US, Philippines and the rest of SEA(Indios and other so called 3rd world nations) and including the West Indies will be the next. This is destiny. embarassedlaugh.gif

The sooner we weaned out from the US and IMF-WB the better. IMF and WB are synonymous to counter development of 3rd world countries.

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/opin...-its-ownfinally
Prau123
QUOTE (Prau123 @ Dec 27 2010, 03:03 AM) *
I just want to add that many of those Filipino WWII veterans who served under the U.S. military (since the Philippines was a commonwealth of the U.S.) were never given the benefits like the American WWII veterans from my understanding until just a few years ago. Unfortunately, many of these Filipino veterans have passed away, or will never fully benefit from those benefits in the short time that they have left to live. I'm not sure what the benefit package contains for them. Lastly, it may not take into consideration the interest accrued since 1945.

Basically after WWII the Philippines was left to solve its own problems. The U.S. did not want to spend money repairing the country, or compensate the Filipino veterans for their services which was under the U.S. military from my understanding. The Philippines was just a young independent nation. Perhaps the U.S. did not have the money after WWII, and had other concerns to deal with. But I feel that the Philippines was shortchanged. Basically if you're not going to be a part of the U.S., then why should U.S. money be used to help you? I think this is a little bit unfair. It's like leaving a wounded soldier on the battlefield to die since he or she is no longer useful.

But what I also want to say is that Filipinos especially after 1965 have benefited from its relationship with the U.S. since many Filipinos migrated to the U.S.. Many Americans also invest in the Philippines which helps the economy. The Philippines and the U.S. are good trading partners from my understanding. The Philippines relies on the U.S. for military protection also (at least that's what I think). I don't want to sound anti-American here, or paint America in a bad way.


I just want to clarify that the U.S. did a lot of good for the Philippines. The U.S. were the major factor in winning WWII especially the Pacific theater, and without them, I don't think the Philippines and many Asian countries would be necessarily independent today. Because of their heavy involvement in WWII which cost several U.S. lives as well as economic losses for them, we should look at how the U.S. left the Philippines in a more fair and candid picture. There is a "give and take" situation here. The U.S. helped the Philippines and other Asian countries gain their freedom in WWII, so I suppose we should not expect too much from them including the compensation of the Filipino veterans, although it would be great if they were to be compensated.
datumarco
QUOTE (Prau123 @ Jan 25 2011, 02:01 AM) *
I just want to clarify that the U.S. did a lot of good for the Philippines. The U.S. were the major factor in winning WWII especially the Pacific theater, and without them, I don't think the Philippines and many Asian countries would be necessarily independent today. Because of their heavy involvement in WWII which cost several U.S. lives as well as economic losses for them, we should look at how the U.S. left the Philippines in a more fair and candid picture. There is a "give and take" situation here. The U.S. helped the Philippines and other Asian countries gain their freedom in WWII, so I suppose we should not expect too much from them including the compensation of the Filipino veterans, although it would be great if they were to be compensated.


the us helped but no really,

the filipinos were waging guerilla warfare and the japanese only had control over the cities and not the countryside.

The US didnt help asia free itself from the japanese becasue they were all good guys - they did it because they'd face extermination and coaquest if japan won. its war it - its always selfish.
r2dav
in actual fact, the Americans helped rebuild Japan and left the Philippines to themselves.

But back to the topic...
I still believe in the Philippines and her people. We fought off the Spanish, the Japanese and the Americans and after all that we still stand on our own two feet.
The problem in the Philippines is the ruling party. I'm hoping Noynoy proves to be the exception but we have not had any strong leadership since Marcos. I've been playing with the idea of setting up a "party" outside of the Philippines with the purpose of bringing proper leadership and change into the Philippines. Like the OP said nobody is willing to talk about the issue, but if provide a sense of purpose maybe it will change. Why do we send money back if we dont want change?
kermit_criminal
QUOTE (Confused43 @ Dec 18 2010, 11:07 AM) *
I'm not educated in Rizal, and I'm not even Filipino, but don't give up. Take some lessons from American history. Yeah sure we have developed a national cult for independence based on Greco-Roman ideals, ideals imitated in the Philippines btw. But keep in mind, the great statesman first advocated reform within the British Empire first. He wanted what is today a Canadian-like government within the empire. Read up on the Albany Plan. It was only after this idea failed he jumped on the independence bandwagon. It isn't at all unusual for great statesmen to advocate for reform first.

And just because the Philippines is impoverished doesn't mean it isn't a great nation. I've always been captivated with Filipino history, like in modern times when Cory Aquino took power after Marcos. I couldn't name you a single Vietnamese, Korean, or even Japanese leader, but I know more than a few Filipino leaders, and before my stepmom had zero connections with the country. I think that says something.

First of all the Philippines is a fascinated blend of Malay, Arabic, Spanish, and American culture. In a weird way, it is the legacy of the "American empire" which in and of itself is fascinating. I mean, there are 294829483 former British colonies, but how many actually have an American heritage. Filipinos don't just speak English, they speak American English, that's pretty cool and unique.

The same can be said for being Spain's imprint in East Asia. And, I haven't even mentioned the Arabic influence. Some familes are as likely to have Hashemite heritage in the Visayas as Spanish.

But take all of this away and you have an interesting local culture. I've always wondered why this wasn't explored more. Like originally was the Philippines Hindu or Buddhist before the arrival of the Muslims? Like Indonesia?

Why use the Roman alphabet for Tagalog and other Filipino languages? Why not use Babayin or even the Javanese script, Hanacaraka, which is just beautiful, or even (though probably not popular in these times), Arabic, as in Malaysia in some places?

I've always looked upon the Philippines as one of the countries with great potential. I see others in this list too like Zimbabwe, Russia, Vietnam, etc. There's no reason it cannot be a powerhouse again. It is ideally situated next door to China, as a bridge to Europe and Latin America (Spain) and the United States to the east. And, the American heritage gives it a unique connection to neighboring Anglic countries such as India and Australia as well. You just have to have faith in yourselves.

I think the Philippines should actually take a page from China. China created a series of SEZs (special economic zones) starting with Shenzhen and made these strong, economic city-states not unlike Singapore. Eventually these grew and grew the Chinese economy to where it is today. The Philippines could start off with an area such as Makati for one of these SEZs, it is one of the few strong growth areas I can think of. I also believe Clark is an experiment in this endeavor. I also believe the hot climate plays a role. Hot weather can make people lethargic and tired. I've noticed that most of the world's economic giants are in cold areas, most of the poor are tropical. The Philippine government should try an economic experiment in a cool area, such as the temperate city of Baguio and see if economic growth can be stimulated there and if the weather is a connection.

Some ideas.


good point about the weather. the only tripical nations that are doing well either have tons of oil, very few people, or have the potential to be a powerhouse because they have so many people or land (india and brazil). I noticed that when i lived in cali i did not care about my studies, i just wanted to chill. when i came back to chicago all i wanted to do was study so i can get the hell out of there some day.
crabdonut
Unless the TC actually had a hand in making the Philippines better, what is there to give up on?
nenabunena
QUOTE (YasukeKomiya @ Dec 18 2010, 12:35 PM) *
We who are educated in the matter of Rizal know that he really wanted the Philippines to become a province of Spain. Independence, he mentioned, was the only alternative people would take if Spain refused reforms in the colony. He only said this as a statement never really advocating independence cause deep down he loved Spain (probably more than the Philippines and China where his ancestors came from). If our supposed hero advocated for our country to be a province what does that tell? It says that our country wasn't worth $hit to be a real nation and that it should depend on some other govt. miles away to give it any purpose. What kind of @$$hole would be willing to let his homeland just be a province to some goddamn foreigners instead of asking for independence. Do Okinawans want to be part of Japan? No they want independence because culturally and ethnically they are not Japanese. Now fast forward, we have independence yet our govt. is a failure (we are a fu-king joke in Asia where things are progressing whether economically or socially) and people leave it for greener pastures. Sure they send money back but its for the family. Our govt. doesn't give a fu-k in seeing the whole nation prosper, they only give a damn about filling their own goddamn pockets. The people may be no better as they just either complain or bring each other down instead of collectively getting $hit done. We learned individualism from the West and we are doing a fu-king fine job in doing that. Going back to Rizal he said if they can't be a province of Spain they could at least emulate Spain and fully Hispanicize the archipelago. Apparently our native culture along with the nation isn't worth $hit to at least be mixed, we must be as he advocated the fu-king Spain in Asia. Even today our "multicultural" society seems to be just people who either want to copy Spain, America, or even Korea for some reason. I don't mind foreign influence (nearly every country on Earth is like that some more than others) but when people only try to put in bits of the native culture its sad. People like to say we are mixed but in reality it is really people just focusing on one aspect. People send money from overseas to the Philippines only to comeback and see that its still the same $hithole they left. Scientists, engineers, doctors, authors, and ect. don't come back to help, sure the govt. is an obstacle but still they could at least fu-king try or at least make some effort to the help the homeland. I want to believe our country is worth saving but if people like Rizal, our "national hero" and advocate of Tagalog, in the end just wanted our homeland to be some fu-king province and wrote his last words in Spanish it seems like it doesn't matter. I'm in a serious crisis and I have no friends to talk to (all the Pinoys and Pinays I know don't like to talk much about the Philippines, again another reason to see how worthless our country is) and I could use probably some wiser persons advice.


I'm feeling despondent myself about the state of the nation, I feel like giving up on the country & the people. The problem isn't just the government, it's the people themselves. They have low standards, they never learn from past mistakes, they don't evolve, they take no pride in their history & culture, even the educated ones are highly ignorant, & lastly everyone is just COMPLACENT. We are killing ourselves.

I have no issues against Rizal, perhaps he was just being realistic & objective about the state of things. Perhaps we truly weren't ready for independence. There is a right time for everything.

Other cultures fought for & won their own independence, with us, it was given to us. People who have won their independence have experiences losses & gained certain wisdom & determination to improve their country. I can't say the same thing about us.

Look at Edsa Revolution, it took Ninoy's assassination to galvanize the country. You think things would change wouldn't you? Yet what happened? Everyone returned to their complacency once again. We never learn as a people. Look at where the Marcoses are now?

Let me ask you this, how many educated Filipinos that you know are culturally educated? How many of them read books more than the usual novelties of present? Look at our films, they were better before, yet today, look at it. Why has it not improved?

I-tatagalog ko ito kc ayaw ko malaman ng mga dayuhan. Bakit ang baba ng IQ natin? Hindi naman dahil ipinaganak na bobo ang mga Pilipino eh. Ang IQ naman kc base lang yan sa isang klaseng talino, ang talino ng modernity. Yun lang naman yun eh. Kaylangan natin ang ganyang talino para umunlad. Hindi natin iniisip kasi ang kinabukasan natin pagkatapos ng 50 na taon. Forward thinking ba? Dapat ang resorsa natin itutok sa edukasyon, sa cultura at bigyan ng tunay na Pinoy Pride. Hindi yung mga pekeng nakiki-ride on lang sa iba diba.

We need to get out of our complacency. have you ever tried to change things but the complacency & crab mentality of everyone around you is bringing you down? That's why we are in the state we are in. It's high time the government took note of this. The media is a powerful tool to influence the collective masses. & they need to use that power & inject some positive attitude & new alternative cultural mindset into the people.
r2dav
QUOTE (nenabunena @ Oct 22 2011, 09:20 AM) *
I'm feeling despondent myself about the state of the nation, I feel like giving up on the country & the people. The problem isn't just the government, it's the people themselves. They have low standards, they never learn from past mistakes, they don't evolve, they take no pride in their history & culture, even the educated ones are highly ignorant, & lastly everyone is just COMPLACENT. We are killing ourselves.

I have no issues against Rizal, perhaps he was just being realistic & objective about the state of things. Perhaps we truly weren't ready for independence. There is a right time for everything.

Other cultures fought for & won their own independence, with us, it was given to us. People who have won their independence have experiences losses & gained certain wisdom & determination to improve their country. I can't say the same thing about us.

Look at Edsa Revolution, it took Ninoy's assassination to galvanize the country. You think things would change wouldn't you? Yet what happened? Everyone returned to their complacency once again. We never learn as a people. Look at where the Marcoses are now?

Let me ask you this, how many educated Filipinos that you know are culturally educated? How many of them read books more than the usual novelties of present? Look at our films, they were better before, yet today, look at it. Why has it not improved?

I-tatagalog ko ito kc ayaw ko malaman ng mga dayuhan. Bakit ang baba ng IQ natin? Hindi naman dahil ipinaganak na bobo ang mga Pilipino eh. Ang IQ naman kc base lang yan sa isang klaseng talino, ang talino ng modernity. Yun lang naman yun eh. Kaylangan natin ang ganyang talino para umunlad. Hindi natin iniisip kasi ang kinabukasan natin pagkatapos ng 50 na taon. Forward thinking ba? Dapat ang resorsa natin itutok sa edukasyon, sa cultura at bigyan ng tunay na Pinoy Pride. Hindi yung mga pekeng nakiki-ride on lang sa iba diba.

We need to get out of our complacency. have you ever tried to change things but the complacency & crab mentality of everyone around you is bringing you down? That's why we are in the state we are in. It's high time the government took note of this. The media is a powerful tool to influence the collective masses. & they need to use that power & inject some positive attitude & new alternative cultural mindset into the people.


it's not that we are stupid... there's just no motivation to excel. Very few, especially in my parents generation, want to be the best they can be. They are content with living their life. not that it's a bad thing. it just leads to the filipino stereotype.

But you are spot on about our complacency. it's a way of life. i don't think the government will be able to do anyhing about it. there are too many people that look out for themselves for them to have any serious impact.
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When you are planning a large vacation gry.pl by vehicle, you must think about how you would will enliven your offspring.Guaranteed a portion of the journey might be ruled out with asleep (should you be lucky), the kids will no doubtfulness be needing some munch time also.Even so should they be wake up you wish as a way to keep these things sidetracked, and centered on one thing in addition to 'how extended until eventually we obtain there'.Convinced there are plenty of online games available a youngsters occupied. Ds Lite, Leapfrog Leapster, Various Models Of Ipods, Transportable Video game enthusiasts and gry sportowe if you can afford them, then have you thought to. They will all give a wonderful level of disruption to your children.In today's economical current market, we not able to all manage to pay for these products. Some of us are lucky enough to give the holiday to begin with.And we want to look at economical ways to amuse your family in the car.Below we have posted your five video game titles to your relatives to experience whilst traveling to your vacation spot by motor vehicle. To start with they're free, which happens to be what's going absolutely fascinate the oldsters and perhaps they are fun, which will interest the children.1Per The Sport of Cricket: One person hits and lots a function for any auto you pass. You can definitely you pass a truck or van consider that out and begin the next one. You select just how many rounds you will have plus the individual most abundant in extends wins2Versus milionerzy Newspaper, Steel, Pair of scissors: Avid gamers depend to a few then make their palms possibly, the contour of your good ole' (clenched fists), the shape of paper (smooth fretting hand) or the shape of scissors (hands clenched with listing and centre little finger extended into your form of pair of scissors). Stone smothers scissers but is liberally smothered by cardstock. Report smothers rock but is reduce by pair of scissors. Scissers lower cardstock but they are covered by mountain. Winner is a good of three3Versus The Spectrum Online game: Everybody in the car determines a color. Deciding just what the concentrate on is, gry przygodowe online for the way heedful the people in the car are. During this scenario permits opt for 10. Any time you go to the vehicle as part of your pick color, the color for affirmation and include it with your tally. The individual to reach the prospective first benefits.4Per The Notification Transform Activity: A person start by declaring a thing and then work your way throughout the automobile, with everybody stating a different concept, nonetheless only adjusting a single correspondence. E.f. Video game, Very same, Acquire, Fame, and so forth. This is usually a good just one for anyone teenagers in the household.5Versus Guess the pet Online game: This is the bit like, 'Who am I ha with the exception of is dependant on animals. This is a game targeted at younger little ones in a vehicle. Absorb it changes of being your pet and try and have everyone else to speculate what you will be. Ourite.gary the gadget guy. We're greyish, I've massive ears, I own a start and so forth. Or to place a further spin about it, you can obtain individuals questioning to inquire about the queries and also the particular person enjoying the pet just solutions 'yes' or 'no'. When another person thinks they are aware how it is they will reckon.
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