Well. If you think on a global perspective, biggest emerging markets in the world are China, India and Indonesia. So, it would be better to let Malaysians, especially Malays, to learn to speak English, Chinese and Bahasa Indonesia rather than Bahasa Malaysia ..

I have a feeling that China, India and Indonesia place a lot, a lot of emphasis on mastering the national language. China is trying to stamp out regional dialects like Cantonese. Indonesians who do not know how to speak Bahasa Indonesia are also considered unpatriotic. So... should Malaysia do the same?

edit:
In fact, I have foreign friends who think it's strange that we're not fluent in our national language and yes, they are from those 'progressive' countries (including Western ones) that we look up to. So yes, I think it is a shame if we are not fluent in Malay. We Malaysians have had it easy. Seriously.

It is also strange and weird, the government of Malaysia still don't even allow the Bible to be printed in BM and/or Bahasa Indonesia ....

There is nothing wrong to place a lot of emphasis on the national language and Malaysia is no exception, and rightly so. However there are less racist way to go about saying it. Bashing non Malays and the Chinese in particular is fair game as always. This is another chance to take a swipe at the Malaysian Chinese. It is shameful to turn every single issue into a racial/religious one, not that it matters much to the Malays as they are the majority and in power. Yet in Singapore the same national language which is also bhs Malaysia is never an issue the way it is in Malaysia.

In Indonesia, not being able to speak Indonesian is never considered unpatriotic, it is considered uneducated. In China the attempt is not to stamp out regional dialects such as Cantonese (an impossible task) but it is to promote more usage of Putonghua or Mandarin in places where strong regional dialect takes precedence over Mandarin, a clear disadvantage. The both examples you cited above are not racially based the way it is in Malaysia. THAT is the big difference and I have highlighted the racist comments in red.

Non-Malays unpatriotic for neglecting BM, says ex-editorBy Shannon Teoh
February 03, 2011

KUALA LUMPUR, Feb 3 — A former newspaper editor has reignited the debate on language proficiency among Malaysians when he questioned today the patriotism of non-Malays, especially Chinese, who do not embrace the Malay language.

Datuk Ahmad Rejal Arbee wrote in Umno-controlled Berita Harian today that after 53 years of independence, non-Malays should be proud of the national language if they were loyal citizens.

“They get so sensitive when their patriotism is doubted but make no effort to use and understand Malay,” the former Berita Harian group editor said.

“What loyalty is there if they do not try to learn and use their own national language?” he wrote, adding that what was learnt in Chinese vernacular schools was only to pass exams.

Ahmad Rejal said that there were non-Malays that did not care about and deliberately “belittled Malay” despite calling Malaysia their country.

Recently, former Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamed had said that non-Malays should cut ties with their countries of origin if they did not want to be considered immigrants in this country.

He had said that Malaysia was Tanah Melayu (Malay land) and all Malaysians should accept the culture and language of the dominant community.

Newspaper circulation, especially for the English and Bahasa morning newspapers, have fallen in recent years although Chinese dailies are enjoying growing circulation. However, Bahasa tabloids that focus on entertainment and gossip are selling three times more than other newspapers.

Ahmad Rejal, who was once editor-in-chief of national news agency Bernama, wrote today that despite non-Malays being able to learn and use their own mother tongues, they simply did not make any effort to uphold the use of Malay.

“Can you blame Malays for assuming that Chinese do not want to uphold Malay as the national language?

“When can we hope for Chinese and Indians to speak in the national language in their daily speech?” he added, claiming that in Indonesia, it was the norm for Chinese to speak in Indonesian.

Now a Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia Fellow, Ahmad Rejal called on the Education Ministry to have must-pass oral exams for students taking Malay.

The translation of the Bible in bhs Mlsia is forbidden, this is to protect the average Malays, as they are easily confused at least that is the official line. On the flip side, it is an insult to the average Malay intelligent, the governmet basically is saying the average Malays are mentally challenged and are weak in their Islamic faith to be so easily confused by a Christian book. But there is hardly any outrage shown by the average Malays. Indon Christian maids arriving in Bolehland with copies of their Bible in Bhs Indon will be confiscated immediately. Religious tolerance in Bolehland is a fallacy.

? Maybe BM bibles but B. Indonesian bibles? Just last Sunday my church was selling some new B. Indonesian bibles. And there are still B. Indonesian bibles in Christian bookstores. Or am I missing something? o_O




I do think there has been some provocation on the Chinese govt's part because there were some passionate demonstrations by Cantonese-speaking Chinese in the news the other day. If it was just a mere promotion of Mandarin I doubt the protests would have been as passionate. And the article I read actually used the word 'stamp out', perhaps you may want to check it up to verify my comment.

Yes it is also considered unpatriotic to not know Bahasa Indonesia. At least that's what I get from Indonesian forums. I wouldn't consider it out of character though because Indonesians are generally nationalistic.

It's true that it's a shame to turn this into a race issue which is why I addressed SChong54's original statement and not the article directly. And Tun Dr M can be quite a monkey sometimes.

No you aren't missing something, just unaware of the situation outside your own area. Bhs Mlsia Bible is not available, surely you know that. As I mentioned Indon workers arriving with the Indon version will be confiscated by custom. In fact not too long ago it was even forbidden to have Bible printed in Iban (not sure what language that is) the reason given was that it will confuse the Muslims, the same old excuse. You could just google under Bible ban in Malaysia or something similar and see what comes up.

Now with the 'Allah' controversy it is even forbidden to have it printed unless it is devoid of that word. As I have been following this issue for sometimes, Allah = God, Tuhan = Lord.



I am not questioning the accuracy of what you said. However the report you read could have been inaccurate, it is not possible 'to stamp out' a local dialect in a place like Guangzhou. I do know that not long ago there was controversy regarding the use of Cantonese in Guangzhou in government depratment, schools and the electronic media. I am not sure if this came from the central government in Beijing. But it has died down. I do think using the common Putonghua in all government department has its merit and it is a legitimate call.

As for Bhs Indon, I wouldn't base my conclusion on the opinion expressed in the IndonChat, it is full of racist anti Chinese sentiments. Just read the thread on Chinese Indonesian, not one positive thing is said about the Chinese, who comprised less than 15% of the total popullace.

CD, let's a call a spade a spade and let's not go skirting around the issue and try to avoid the obvious. The article is about race, and the Bhs Mlsis is used as a tool for bashing the Chinese yet again, what else is new? I know you try not to offend the Malays here, but at the expense of truth?

Yup I'm sorry, I have to agree with you - maybe I am not aware of the situation outside my area. East Malaysia that is. I thought you and SChong were saying that the ban applies to the whole of Malaysia - or maybe you were? Anyway currently both Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia bibles are allowed in Sabah and Sarawak. We are also allowed to use the word Allah here.

http://sg.christianpost.com/dbase.php?cat=...ety&id=1483
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...&sec=nation
http://www.bukittunggal.com/2010/01/allelu...allowed-in.html

Maybe that's why I really like it here. Things are more laid back and tolerant, and we can sing Christian songs - even B. M'sian ones - in public. I am aware however that things are more limited in West Malaysia, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the people there. No wonder they say West and East Malaysia feel like two different countries altogether. Things are definitely different. Maybe a spade in West Malaysia is not a spade here. Which is why I've often emphasised that the situation in Malaysia is really more complicated than what the world think it is, and hence why a more objective perspective is very important no matter what we are inclined to believe.

Yea the Iban Bible (the Bup Kudus) was banned. I'm not sure if the ban has been lifted, I haven't been seeing Iban bibles for quite some time. Which is weird, because if the BM and BI bibles are allowed, the Iban bible should be allowed too. And Iban is a tribe and language from my state Sarawak.





Oh don't worry, I don't think I'm avoiding the issue at all. I'm just trying to provide an alternate view of the situation, because from my observation you do not get the complete picture from just reading the articles alone. It's also possible to miss follow-up articles as both you and I have done. Having said that, I don't think I denied that the article was about race, in fact I affirmed it in my previous post. It's just that I was saying that my original reply was to SChong54's statement:



But if you don't get it it's okay, my original post was a slight digression anyway hehe... and oh yes I've offended a few Malays here too, and swingdoc far more; but nevermind about that. :P

CD our above exchanges are proof that it is possible to discuss what the Malays' regarded as 'sensitive' without getting into a slinging match and I thank you. Unfortunately from the day I joined AF forum, the Malays in this forum as indeed in any other forums display their inability to discuss these issues objectively. I thought at least one was different as she never fails to cite her family values ad nauseum, but alas! she is made of the same substance.

In the beginning you and others have often asked me to provide solutions. And I did say; until the Malays learn to share and are willing to accept other races as their equal, less arrogant and learn to be inclusive, are willing to play on an equal footing, the non Malays will still suffer and be leaving Bolehland in drove.

Hey If I were a Malay, I will definitely get a discount of 5% to 8% when purchasing a new development regardless of the price. So even though I am a multi millionaire I still get a discount when buying a brand new MYR5 million abode, what about that?

.

Are you ready for some serious exchanges about your faith or do you just vomit and disappear as cowardly as the way you do each time??

Let Malaysia do everything in the wrong way, should it be religion or social issues.
In the end they will find themsleves going backward, unable to progress together
with globalisation. We, non malaysian got nothing to lose and less a unworthy competitor
is in fact better for us.

It is always better to have dumb neighbours than a smart one.

Don't be afraid of competition, Sexysomchai. That's not very sexy.

even i dont speak malay so well..my teachers in school used to tease my malay language
i dont think my bahasa is bad..its just different

Chinese already accept Bahasa Malaysia as the National Language. There is no dispute. But to ask Chinese to assimilate and become a Malay however is just not possible. That is not going to happen.

Chinese contribution to Malaysia is already tremendous. Not only in economics, but also is almost every field. In sports (Yes Chinese bring home more medals), art (World famous actress like Michele Yeoh), politics etc. If not for the Chinese where would Malaysia be ?

Not to mention that only the Chinese fought against the Japanese during WW2 and participate in the confrontation against Indonesia aggression.

On the otherhand what has the Malays contributed to Malaysia ? Can somebody name something ????

And the Chinese do all that without asking alot from the Malays. Most Chinese just want the Malay to play FAIR. That is all.


Malaysia belongs as much to the Chinese if not more.

Have you ever visited the National Museum in KL? There is hardly any mentions of the contributions by the Chinese in Malaya, that is before Malaysia. I have also posted articles on the minister of education rewrite of Malaysia history where the contribution of non Malays were omitted and false facts were introduced. But this is Bolehland.

Source: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...&sec=nation

Saturday March 12, 2011
UM V-C reaffirms stance on English

By TAN EE LOO
educate@thestar.com.my


PETALING JAYA: The call to strengthen the command of the English language is not meant to sideline Bahasa Malaysia, said Universiti Malaya (UM) vice-chancellor Prof Datuk Dr Ghauth Jasmon.

Dr Ghauth said his words had been misinterpreted by some students who were offended after listening to a presentation he gave on Feb 14 which highlighted the poor command of the English language among local graduates.

“It was never my intention to do so. I will not apologise, and this will not discourage me from going around to give more talks to convey the importance of taking UM to a higher level,” he said at a press conference held to clarify the issue yesterday.

In the hour-long conference with some 2,000 students, Dr Ghauth shared UM’s visions of achieving international standards and the means to achieve them.

Entitled Raising UM into the Rank of Top 100 Universities within five years: What are your contributions?, his presentation highlighted the importance of the English language and how it could help enhance their employability.

The ministry had sent out a letter to universities more than two weeks ago asking for an increase in the credit hours for the English subject to help students strengthen their command of the language.

Dr Ghauth’s talk has caused an uproar among those from the Akademi Pengajian Melayu (AMP) or Academy of Malay Studies.

The AMP students submitted a memorandum on Feb 24, demanding an apology from Dr Ghauth within a week, failing which they would take the matter up with the Higher Education Minister.

Some individuals had also left nasty comments on YouTube and blogs, calling Dr Ghauth “biadap” (recalcitrant) and “khianat” (traitor) for stressing the importance of the English language among students.

The presentation, broken into five parts, is available on YouTube.

In the third part of the presentation, Dr Ghauth said one of the ways to improve the command of the English language was to “force” students to speak in English.

Later yesterday, Dr Ghauth met with some 200 AMP students for an open dialogue to clear the air.

When contacted after the dialogue, Dr Ghauth said: “Some students were happy but some left the meeting not fully satisfied with my explanation.”

Note:
I guess those AMP students are biadab and nevermind that English is poorly spoken by the majority of the Malays. I guess they prefer to study and speak Arabic instead.

its a free world...they can learn to read and speak in which ever language they want cos its their for their education...by the way...i saw on tv that they have this bahasa competition yearly and the participants are from all over the world incuding germany, australia, russia, turky...pretty impressive...they sure beat me

Perhaps you should give your advice to those idiots from the Akademi Pengajian Melayu (AMP) or Academy of Malay Studies that each to it's own. As you seem to miss the point of the story altogether due to your own prejudices, the article is about the importance of English as a medium for effective communication world wide not your precious Bhs Malaysia. And most importantly neither the above article nor the good Dr Ghauth ever questions the validity of Bolehland's national lingua franca which incidentally is all originated/borrowed from the Indon lingua franca anyway, capice?

whoa chutz...think u have a wrong idea about me..but its ok..who cares..i dont want to unscrew ur mind to get things right..im tired