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Hugham
Why Have Asians Not Dominated?
High intelligence may not be enough.
Robert Henderson

It is now generally accepted among serious students of intelligence that Asians have the highest average IQs of any racial group. As Richard Lynn has reported in his comprehensive study, IQ and Global Inequality, East Asian countries such as China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore, have average IQs in the range of 105 to 108. This clearly exceeds the averages Prof. Lynn has found for the 29 European countries, which range from 92 to 102 (for a review of IQ and Global Inequality see “Survival of the Fittest,” AR, June 2007). The question therefore arises, why have Asians not dominated — economically, culturally, and politically?

Before addressing this question directly, it is necessary to debunk a number of Western myths about China in order correctly to assess Asian achievement. There is, of course, more to Asia than China, but its population represents the great majority of East Asians, and throughout most historical periods, it has been the center of East Asian cultural achievement.

To the extent that Westerners think about China’s place in history they see it as having been a unified state with a single culture and language and a continuous history that stretches back thousands of years. They also think of it as having always been culturally and technologically ahead of the West until relatively recently. Joseph Needham, for example, propagates this myth in his monumental Science and Civilization in China.

In fact, the history of China has been as politically messy and fractured as that of Europe. The country was not even nominally unified until the third century BC — under the short-lived Chin dynasty (221-207 BC) — and has spent more than half the time since then split between competing dynasties or under foreign rule. Examples are the period of warlords in the 5th and 6th centuries AD, the Northern and Southern Sung dynasties from 960-1126, and rule by Mongols (1279-1368) and Manchus (1644-1912). Even during times of supposed unification, the control the emperor could exercise was very little compared to that possible in a modern, industrial state.

As for China’s presumed cultural unity, there is not a single language understood throughout China. The division between Cantonese and Mandarin is reasonably well known in the West, but there are other fault lines. The former leader Deng Xiaoping spoke with such a heavy accent and dialect that his daughter interpreted for him when he spoke in public. There is not even a single, standard written language.

China is far from being a unified racial/ethnic entity. It contains within its borders approximately 100 million people who are members of minority groups. It makes no more sense to speak of China as a continuous state or single civilisation than it does to speak of Europe as a continuous state or single civilization.

Nor is there a special antiquity to Chinese achievements. In the use of metals, the Chinese were no earlier than the peoples of the Middle East and Mediterranean, and were certainly later when it came to agriculture and writing.

Even in antiquity, China was not always more culturally advanced than Europe. The Cretans and Mycenaeans had sophisticated cultures that predated classical Greece, and the achievements of the Greeks and Romans were immense. China cannot be said to have been ahead of these

To take an example from a later period, today there exist few Chinese buildings predating the Ming era (1368-1644). Before that time, most Chinese buildings were made of wood. China has nothing to compare with the great stone buildings of the European and Mediterranean ancient world, the magnificent castles, abbeys, cathedrals, and churches of the European mediaeval period, and the amazing architectural diversity of modern Europe. Construction of Notre Dame began in Paris in 1163 and the cathedral was largely completed by 1250. There is nothing from China of this period that demonstrates anything like the same level of both intricacy and magnificence.

It is true that before the modern period (say 1500 AD), the Chinese made a number of discoveries before Europe but the opposite is also true. The Chinese made paper, mixed gunpowder, and had the compass first, but Europe was first with the Archimedean screw.

Even when China invented something earlier, Europeans sometimes produced it later independently. The classic example is moveable type. China and Korea had moveable type many centuries before Gutenberg, but there is no evidence Gutenberg was influenced by Asian examples. Movable type quickly became widespread in Europe but was never popular in China. This is probably because written European languages are based on an alphabet with few characters while Chinese is written with thousands of ideograms, each of which requires its own block of type. In any case, since 1700 at the latest, European technology has completely outpaced that of China.


It’s impressive ...

There is far more to civilization than technology, of course, but China falls well short of Europe in social science, philosophy, art, and political organization as well. Throughout their history the Chinese have been very inventive when it comes to practical solutions to particular problems but did not develop theories from practical solutions that offered general explanations of the world. In this sense, China never developed anything that could be called science.

It is also noteworthy that although the Chinese produced many important inventions, they often failed to develop them substantially. When Europeans began to make regular contact with China in the seventeenth century, their guns were far superior to those of the Chinese, even though it was Chinese who had invented gunpowder many centuries previously. The Chinese record of innovation sometimes gives the impression that an invention was made to amuse or to serve the interests of a powerful person rather than to establish an industry or change society.

Lord George Macartney, who headed the first official British diplomatic mission to China in 1793-4, noted that the Chinese seemed to have invented things and then “applied them solely to the purpose wanted, and to never have thought of improving or extending them further.”


... but it’s not Notre Dame.

Adam Smith wrote about China in The Wealth of Nations:
“China has been long one of the richest, that is, one of the most fertile, best cultivated, most industrious and most populous countries in the world. It seems, however, to have long been stationary. Marco Polo, who visited it more than five hundred years ago, describes its cultivation, industry and populousness, almost in the same terms in which they are described by travellers in the present times.”

Perhaps this stationary quality reflected a deep-seated arrogance among Chinese rulers, who viewed any kind of innovation with suspicion. Traditionally, the Chinese elites were contemptuous of other peoples, routinely treating them as subordinates. Lord Macartney’s presents to the Emperor in 1794 were counted as tribute rather than gifts, and the British envoy constantly noticed what we would now call a monstrous superiority complex. When he offered the Chinese products of the early Industrial Revolution, the equivalent of which were unknown in China, they often refused to show any interest in them. This is not an attitude conducive to progress.

Philosophy as we would understand it in the West, that is, analytical thought examining the nature of reality with, in theory at least, an absence of ideological baggage, is virtually absent from Chinese history. Traditional Chinese philosophy never divorced itself entirely from religion and was mainly concerned with how society should be ordered. Its primary purpose was social control, and it is more a series of maxims than an exercise in philosophical enquiry. The let-everything-be-challenged method found intermittently in Western philosophy from at least the sixth century BC appears foreign to the Chinese. Interestingly, the Chinese were great compilers of what we would call encyclopaedias. They delighted in recording what was already known or thought, but had little interest in investigating what was not known or might be thought.

Chinese art and fashion show a similar resistance to change. Look at contemporary depictions of Chinese from 1000 AD. They look hardly any different from the Chinese of 1800. Chinese art shows a similar stability over the same period, being for the most part heavily constrained by convention. Where there is deviation from academic artistic discipline it is mainly found in periods where foreign invaders gained power, most noticeably under the Mongol emperors who imported foreign craftsmen and artists. Chinese fashions and art are like those of ancient Egypt, which show a remarkable stability over several thousand years. This is the opposite of the European cultural experience.

Politically, the Chinese never really moved beyond the state of warlordism or of believing in an absolute ruler who was a god or a man directly in touch with gods. There were attempts to introduce more rational and less absolute forms of government, but these were short lived. Confucianism tried to lay down moral rules for rulers, but that was about the limit of any real attempt to restrain emperors by anything short of violence. Ideas about constitutions restricting what government may do, representative government, or direct democracy never arose in Chinese society. In the West, the ideal of individual political participation dates back to the Greeks, and is present in Europe in the Middle Ages. It is completely absent in China.

The Mandarin system and appointment by examination, which started as early as the 7th century AD, are often proposed as evidence of superior Chinese political organization, but were they really superior to that of the Roman Empire, which predated it by centuries? Was Chinese bureaucracy more impressive than that of the Catholic Church at the height of its power? It is possible to describe the Mandarin system more as a way to control and categorize than as a system designed to meet a particular need, such as political rule or the management of assets.

In Chinese history it is also hard to find organizations that perform civic social functions but that are not part of the formal political structure. Examples in the West would be charities, clubs, the co-operative movement, and trade unions. Chinese life has traditionally revolved around the family, while the government provides all forms of larger social organization.

Before the Maoist revolution, China never attempted to go beyond a society of a small elite with immense wealth that left the vast majority in abject penury. There is no Chinese tradition of doubting the justice or legitimacy of such a society. When Europeans began to gain first-hand experience of China from the 17th century onwards, it was common to remark on the tremendous disparities of wealth. As Macartney noted, “[E]very year vast numbers [of Chinese] perish of hunger and cold. The summers are so warm that the common sort go almost naked, and the winter is so rigorous that the mortality is very great from the want of clothing and shelter.”

There was nothing that resembled the corporate charitable concern for the poor found within the Catholic Church, let alone a formal legal obligation to the needy, such as the English Poor Law of 1601. And even after what was supposed to be an egalitarian revolution, for many years the Communist party did nothing more than appropriate to itself the advantages of the Mandarinate but under a different name.

What is Missing?

Why did China never make the jump from trial-and-error technology to true science? Why did it show so little interest in analytical philosophy? Why did it never develop a political system more sophisticated than that of the god-Emperor? Why was the idea of political participation, so widespread in Europe in both the ancient and the late mediaeval world, absent in China? Why was there no civil society?

Could it be that sufficiently propitious circumstances never arose to drive Asians beyond a certain point, that Europe surged ahead by luck rather than any innate difference? This is improbable because China has been a sophisticated society for several thousand years.

The above critique of the myth of Chinese cultural superiority may carry within it suggestions of why Asians have not achieved cultural supremacy. IQ may be a necessary but not sufficient condition for that advance. First, however, it is important to note that IQ is not of a piece. Although the average Asian IQ is higher than the white IQ overall, it is not higher in all respects. Asians score substantially higher than whites on non-verbal tests but lower than whites on verbal tests. They score particularly well on spatial tests.

This IQ profile may be associated with the Asian adherence to an ideographic form of writing. If one set a genius and a dullard the task of developing a writing system, the genius would come up with an alphabet and the dullard some form of pictorial representation. The genius would see that an alphabet was a more economical and powerful means of representation because it required only a small number of symbols. The dullard would merely keep adding to the number of pictures. Of course the Chinese went far beyond crude pictograms, but by retaining a pictorial system they ended up with a form of writing that requires several thousand characters.

In the 15th century, the Koreans invented an alphabet called Hangul, but this was in imitation of alphabets invented by others. It may be that East Asians failed to develop an alphabet on their own because of their leaning towards the visual and the spatial.

The greater Asian aptitude on non-verbal tests and lower ability on verbal tests can also be interpreted as meaning that Asians are adapted to solving what I would call bounded problems. These are problems that have clear boundaries, such as how to build a canal or how to care for silkworms, rather than problems without boundaries, such as inquiring about the nature of the good, the purpose of life, or what constitutes art.

At the same time, IQ is hardly the only measure by which the races differ, and both J. Philippe Rushton and Richard Lynn have written about racial differences in personality. Although intelligence is the best studied and most accurately measured mental trait, there are also reasonably well developed measures of many other traits. Compared to whites, Asians are more cautious, less impulsive, less aggressive, less sociable, less psychopathic, and have lower self-regard (the same can be said about whites compared to blacks). Though they have not been studied as extensively as intelligence, racial differences on these scales are so consistent that it makes almost as much sense to speak of a race or group’s “average personality” as it does to speak of its average IQ.

Asians also have lower levels of testosterone compared to whites (who have less testosterone than blacks), and testosterone is closely associated with aggressiveness, risk-taking, and criminality.

These differences support the conclusion that the Asian personality is less enquiring or adventurous than that of the Caucasian, less verbal or sociable, and more conformist and submissive. This is not the type of personality that — despite an advantage in average IQ — pushes a society towards the achievements that characterize the West: developing an industrial revolution from scratch, creating modern science, giving birth to analytical philosophy, and evolving many varied forms of political life that value the contribution of the individual.

When they are a minority in high-IQ, Western societies, Asians tend to fill technical posts that favor higher IQs, or engage in business, much of which is conducted within their own group. They make relatively little headway in areas that require the highest level of “people skills,” such as politics or advocacy groups. They are excellent accountants, computer technicians, and engineers — these are professions in which their natural abilities blossom — but they do not distinguish themselves in professions that require verbal gifts and gregariousness: politician, comedian, lawyer.

Asians also tend to show very little antisocial behavior. Their crime rates are low, and they rarely portray themselves as victims of racism or demand race-based privileges (though see last month’s cover story, “Asian Race Consciousness”). This tendency to follow the rules and not to call attention to themselves either as a group or as individuals seems to fit the Asian personality.

What has been the Asian record since industrialization? Asians have had the invaluable example of European industry, science, and general cultural heritage, and have made much better use of it than any other non-Western racial group. However, their record is patchy. Japan has been able to duplicate the technology of the West but has not been able to surpass it. In the 1970s, many Americans feared Japan would dominate it economically and financially, but just as it seemed to pull abreast of the West, it began to stagnate and has shown little growth since the 1980s.

China has not been able to bridge the oceanic gulf in wealth and sophistication between its coastal cities and the vast Chinese interior. No Asian society has achieved much success in fundamental scientific discovery or technological innovation that goes beyond the adaptation of what has been invented or discovered elsewhere. Nor, despite the large populations of Asians living in advanced European societies, can we find front-rank scientists in proportion to their numbers. In the social sciences their contributions are practically invisible. This lack of top-level achievement is particularly striking given that Asians have higher incomes than whites, go farther in school, and start more businesses.

Asians have adopted Western culture as well as Western technology. The Japanese, in particular, are famous for imitating both high and low white culture, from Beethoven to the Beatles. Asian Harry Potter fans are among the most frenzied in the world. The sites on Prince Edward Island associated with the children’s book series about Anne of Green Gables attract as many Japanese as they do Americans or Canadians. Asians have enthusiastically copied the architecture of the West and have even been willing to tear down many fine examples of indigenous architecture.

There is no equivalent of Asian mass culture entering white societies. The most that can be found are periodic outbreaks of the use of oriental art and motifs by European designers.

This willingness to imitate might seem odd in view of the traditionally static nature of Asian societies. Perhaps it could be ascribed to the feelings of inferiority that arose when Asians faced the power of the industrialized West. In China’s case it might arise from a sense of humiliation because of European quasi-colonialism in the 19th century. Many Chinese would say they are modernizing only now because they were held back by white control and manipulation, but this does not fit with the facts. China had centuries during which it could have pulled ahead of the West, and European meddling effectively ended in 1949.

In any case, to copy culture as well as technology shows a strange lack of ambition. Why not do something whites have never done?

ne could argue that imitation comes more naturally in conformist, less individualistic societies. Or rather, it may be natural to imitate certain aspects of life but not others. Asians do not show an appetite for imitating social structures. The Japanese and South Koreans may have formally adopted systems of elective government from European examples, but traditional social relations remain strong. Those countries accept practices that in the West would be considered straightforward bribery, and voters are greatly influenced by collective loyalties. As for China, the Communist elite have managed to retain control while allowing some economic freedom. They have certainly avoided democratization, and the government continues openly to manipulate the law.

Japan’s imitation of the West is especially striking, given its earlier suspicions. After some 16th and 17th century experience with European merchants and priests, in the 1630s it took the dramatic step of sealing the country off from all but the most limited European contact. This self-imposed isolation lasted more than two centuries until Commodore Matthew Perry forced trade on the Japanese in 1853.

A new elite ideology then emerged that saw imitation of certain aspects of Western countries as the best way to compete with them. This new ideology was accepted by the people with astonishing readiness despite the earlier policy of isolation. Why did this transition take place so easily? Most probably because of an average personality that is unusually susceptible to authority.

One of the most striking examples of both the remarkable ability and remarkable limitedness of Asians is the history of the Chinese admiral Zheng He. From 1405 to 1433 he commanded a series of seven extraordinary voyages throughout South East Asia and to such places as India, Ceylon, the Arabian peninsula, and even East Africa. The admiral’s largest ships were enormous, six-masted junks estimated to have been 100 yards or more long, and he travelled with tens of thousands of men and hundreds of vessels. His ships were many times larger than anything afloat in the West, and if the Chinese had devoted themselves to sea power, they would certainly have dominated trade and could have discovered and colonized the Americas.

However, there was a change of emperor, and the new regime had no interest in exploration. Zheng He died on the last voyage, and the emperor ordered the fleet burned. That was the end of China as a maritime power.

In the hands of the West, sea power dramatically changed history. In the hands of the Chinese, it was a means to satisfy a fleeting curiosity about foreigners. China had unsurpassed technology, but did not have the spirit to turn that technology into world or even regional dominance.

Despite their higher average IQ, Asians have failed to become the culturally dominant race probably because innate personality traits work against them. Compared to Europeans, they are passive, unquestioning, and lacking in initiative. The next 50 years will probably see a continuing rise in the economic and military power of China, but if history is any guide, this rise in power will not be matched by innovation, and China’s cultural contributions will remain insignificant. AR

Mr. Henderson is a history and politics graduate whose career was divided between the public and private sectors. He is now retired and lives in Britain.

http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/10/index.html#cover

ktoast
Wowie. An opinionative article that stinks of sore loserness.

"Yeah you guys may have the highest IQs, but we are the ones that have shown innovation throughout history, so there!"
SkyBurial
Wow. That was one of the largest steaming pile of crap I have ever read. Wow, just wow.
Mid-Night_Sun
this is just like that historic gdp thing with india where all of present day india and pakistan get their gdp added up despite only a few entitys that actually contained this territory.

europe was NEVER a single entity so why is all of it being compared to china.

1. about the "more than half" basic math anyone? he start with 200 bc as first unification. that is a history of 2100 years (end of Qing say 1900). his examples are 200 (warlord), 150 (north/south), 100 (mongol), 300 (manchu). a total of 750 give or take. more like 1/3 buddy.

2. "China is far from being a unified racial/ethnic entity. It contains within its borders approximately 100 million people who are members of minority groups. It makes no more sense to speak of China as a continuous state or single civilisation than it does to speak of Europe as a continuous state or single civilization."

the worst. absolutely the worst. if and when Europe EVER get ONE entity, and successive dynasties that claim the same mandate then talk. if he understood the mandate of heaven he would know its not about how many minorities there are or w/e.

3. "The Chinese made paper, mixed gunpowder, and had the compass first, but Europe was first with the Archimedean screw."

....is he trying to embarrass himself?

4. "When he offered the Chinese products of the early Industrial Revolution, the equivalent of which were unknown in China, they often refused to show any interest in them. This is not an attitude conducive to progress."

its not that simple. yes Chinese became complacent due to its advancement, but it was after millenniums of unimpressive counter parts.

5. "In the hands of the West, sea power dramatically changed history. In the hands of the Chinese, it was a means to satisfy a fleeting curiosity about foreigners. China had unsurpassed technology, but did not have the spirit to turn that technology into world or even regional dominance."

yes, so what? Chinese should have colonized and genocide some natives before european approve?


btw, the forbidden city has this layout

http://www.google.ca/search?q=forbidden+ci...280&bih=549


about architecture


An Exploration into Harmonious Architecture
http://www.114news.com/build/51/2751-30253.html

Chinese Architecture and Culture
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/architecture/culture/


he criticizes what he doesnt understand and what the green movement/sustainable development is trying to do today. pathetic beyond belief.


about philosophy

Legalism (Chinese: 法家; pinyin: Fǎjiā; Wade–Giles: Fa-chia; literally "School of law")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_%28C...e_philosophy%29

Mohism or Moism (Chinese: 墨家; pinyin: Mòjiā; literally "School of Mo")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohism

Confucianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism

Taoism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism



the author says Chinese didnt progress and conquer because of some personal trait? that is only one perspective.




The Great Divergence

In the West, there seems to be nothing that baffles historians more than the Great Divergence. In hindsight, however, it should not be difficult to work out an explanation if we don't choose to avoid the thorny subject of Eastern versus Western proclivities. To answer to the questions "Why did China fall behind?" and "Why didn't China set out to conquer the world?", we must understand the mentality of the Chinese elites. So why didn't China adopt an expansionist policy? One of the reasons is because they didn't see the interest in obtaining natural resources from aboard. In fact, they were not committed to growth, especially not at the expense of sustainability. This is seen in the fact that the Chinese had a knack for managing natural resources in a sustainable matter. They had a way with the commoners and they successfully got them to harvest, cut, extract the strict minimum. Had they set their eyes towards wealth and glory, they would have fought their way to a vast empire like the Mongols, but little interest they had in such unprincipled goals. Needless to say, the Chinese elites were very versed in Confucian doctrine and held it in very high esteem. On the contrary, the West never had a second thought about its wrongdoings. It wanted wealth and glory and would not shy away from any means to obtain them—think of the Opium War.

http://kimchibokkeumbap.blogspot.com/2011/...divergence.html

Yer
QUOTE (SkyBurial @ Apr 24 2011, 11:17 AM) *
Wow. That was one of the largest steaming pile of crap I have ever read. Wow, just wow.

+1
PCAT
Predicting world domination and military, political, cultural hegemony based on high racial IQs is absurd. IQs are just one part of the equation or an unreliable indicator. The author has a point that one must also account for the group's personality traits (such as prevalence of adventourousness, agressiveness, risk-taking, all of which may be based on testosterone levels), which may push a society towards achievements of the West.

East Asian IQ-based, racial supremicism is a joke.
Chan-Ho
I agree with this assessment thus far, but I disagree about Asian innovation moving forward. The West were pioneers of so much modern society that Asia needs to catch up first before they can innovate. I think once the whole of East-Asia catches up with the West, we will start to see more significant Asian contributions. Give it another 50-100 years and then we'll see.

We Asians need to stop feeling inferior and give credit where its due. White people have created the world we live in and I'm not going to lie, I'm glad they did. Now that Asians have the opportunity to catch-up, it's time for us to make our own contributions. And I hope they are for the betterment of all mankind.
Yer
QUOTE (PCAT @ Apr 24 2011, 01:11 PM) *
Predicting world domination and military, political, cultural hegemony based on high racial IQs is absurd. IQs are just one part of the equation or an unreliable indicator. The author has a point that one must also account for the group's personality traits (such as degree of adventourousness, agressiveness, risk-taking, all of which may be based on testosterone levels), which may push a society towards achievements of the West.

East Asian IQ-based, racial supremicism is a joke.

I don't even think it's about personality traits. It probably also has to do with political ideology and the nature of the government, which the majority of people didn't have control over. Just because Korea curled into a hole after the fall of the Ming dynasty that doesn't mean Koreans were shy and xenophobic in general. It has largely to do with the fact that the political elite were impractical and delusional.
Lorax
this bigot is like many white males in that he is now feeling a bit of inferiority complex. he has to make stories up to compensate.
AsiaticGlory
It takes more than intelligence to dominate the world. As another user mentioned, you need to be aggressive, adventurous, and not risk adverse.

As history has shown, the only Asians who were aggressive enough to conquer vast amounts of territory were the Mongols, Turks, Huns, and other nomadic Altaic horsemen. Unfortunately, they lacked the knowledge, experience, infrastructure, etc. needed to build a nation.

Since I live in America, I do notice that white people are more likely to have a sense of adventure. They are more likely to do outdoor activities like hiking, hunting, rock climbing, sailing, etc. During my engineering education, I notice that whites are more likely to have a passion for the subject. Many of the Asian students that I knew were just motivated by a desire to have a high-paying job. Passion is a better motivator than money.
millersdude
I would take this for a grain of salt. Innovation is corelated to investment in R&D. The West has a long tradition of R&D spending ever since after the Dark Age. In last couple centuries they have poured more money in R&D than other civilizations put together. As a result, they have innovated so many things. The Far East, particular Japan, has not invested heavily in R&D until 1950. South Korea and Taiwan have not heavily invested in R&D until 1980. China's investment in R&D was almost nothing until 2000. Some patent data has already suggested China innovations might have already surpassed that of USA this year and China's economy is still growing fast. Giving China's economy in 2050 is at least two times that of US, China's investment in R&D will be more than that of the West put together and China will probably out innovated the West.




QUOTE
The China Market Is Attaining Critical Mass

Apr 22, 2011

By Michael Mecham, Joseph C. Anselmo


The trend lines have been familiar for more than two decades: China is the world’s largest potential market for everyone making nearly everything. In air travel, national growth rates are so strong that they are typically broken out from the rest of Asia, as if China is a separate continent.

The country’s economy is expanding so rapidly that industry and infrastructure strain to keep up. Ironically, this makes China an ideal laboratory for teams of foreigners and Chinese researchers to test big ideas, such as carbon dioxide sequestration to produce “clean” coal, that go unheeded in older, more mature economies....

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/sto..._p43-312325.xml
Lorax
The elephant in the room and the reality to which this author is blinded to is that europeans and America built their civilization on the backs of others such as Native Americans, Africans and Asians. China had the technology to colonize the world but did not because the Chinese simply lack the will to steal, murder and rape others like the white man.
faydabakery
Well, that was quite a harsh opinion on China. I do agree with a lot of the points. The whole bit about who was inventing what first was stupid. However questioning why those inventions weren't innovated a lot more is a good question.

Off topic - the West will continue to be Europe, the US, South America and anything else that isn't in Asia or Africa just like all the people on this forum continue to do. You can't have it both ways and use the east/west comparison as a matter of convenience. Do it this way or don't.

That aside, I think there's plenty of subtle influences from China and the rest of Asia. But I think its mostly in the arts and cinema. John Woo? Ceramics (not sure about this one but someone else can correct me)? Martial arts. You know what part of the problem is, Chinese design and art of the past was very ornate. That gives a feeling of age and tradition - the opposite of anything modern. I actually really, really like Korean graphic design and interior design. Very clean and modern (west) but uses elements that are Korean.

It's really hard to see what the future will bring but China is in the best possible place to REALLY make an international impact across ALL levels of society. So, China, PLEASE DON'T F*CK THIS UP!!!

And to the Chinese that are abroad especially - don't be so damn passive and conformist. Example - Black and Hispanic Americans are doing more to change the United States than any Asian minority has. Stop just talking and start DOING. To the Chinese in China, support the Chinese abroad more because they're the ones that will be influencing the west more than the ones at home.

Blackdude
Since when have the Chinese hegemony extended to the whole globe? Ignorant westerners.
SkyBurial
QUOTE (faydabakery @ Apr 24 2011, 06:33 PM) *
To the Chinese in China, support the Chinese abroad more because they're the ones that will be influencing the west more than the ones at home.

Lol, don't you know that Chinese in China have a habit of looking down on overseas Chinese.
faydabakery
QUOTE (SkyBurial @ Apr 24 2011, 06:42 PM) *
Lol, don't you know that Chinese in China have a habit of looking down on overseas Chinese.


I do. It's a pretty stupid thing to do when they're an extension of China. lol.
Blackdude
QUOTE (faydabakery @ Apr 24 2011, 05:50 PM) *
I do. It's a pretty stupid thing to do when they're an extension of China. lol.



That's not necessarily true, if said migrants integrate into American culture.
DewDrop
As early as the 15th century, Ming dynasty was the undisputed leader in arts and industry, the world's highest GDP per capita, the world's most advanced and sophisticated culture and civilization on Earth. My White Professor said it was probably more advanced than any single European state.

As early as the 19th century, circa 1840, the declining Qing dynasty had the world's highest GDP per capita.

China was so superior to the rest of the world, she shunned off the entire world and closed herself from trade. That's how good China was :-) lol.

Then Europeans took Chinese inventions of gunpowder and compass to sail to distant lands and conquer indigenous people.

QUOTE
And to the Chinese that are abroad especially - don't be so damn passive and conformist. Example - Black and Hispanic Americans are doing more to change the United States than any Asian minority has. Stop just talking and start DOING. To the Chinese in China, support the Chinese abroad more because they're the ones that will be influencing the west more than the ones at home.


When did mass migration of Asians in general come into full force? After repeal of the Chinese exclusion act post WW2, or more like 1970s?

Mind you, African Americans didn't even get the civil right to vote until 1960's... The vast majority of Asians started to immigrate into the US around 1970s...

Most Asians in the US realize that if US plummets, they wouldn't give a rats @$$ about this hypocritical, racists, and war-like continental size nation-state (It's actually an empire).

QUOTE
It's really hard to see what the future will bring but China is in the best possible place to REALLY make an international impact across ALL levels of society. So, China, PLEASE DON'T F*CK THIS UP!!!


Agreed. Let us be the generation of Chinese that rectifying our ancestor's misgivings and correct 109 years of China being the 'Sick Man of Asia'. My duty to China is to fight anti-Chinese rhetoric, and ensure China doesn't fu-k up.
millersdude
QUOTE (DewDrop @ Apr 24 2011, 07:04 PM) *
As early as the 15th century, Ming dynasty was the undisputed leader in arts and industry, the world's highest GDP per capita, the world's most advanced and sophisticated culture and civilization on Earth. My White Professor said it was probably more advanced than any single European state.

As early as the 19th century, circa 1840, the declining Qing dynasty had the world's highest GDP per capita.

China was so superior to the rest of the world, she shunned off the entire world and closed herself from trade. That's how good China was :-) lol.

Then Europeans took Chinese inventions of gunpowder and compass to sail to distant lands and conquer indigenous people.



There is no need to say that. You probably know one or two things about ancient China. That is pretty much about it, but it is a known fact that ancient Chinese inventions are the foundation of all modern technologies. E.g. Nylon and other synthetic materials we use today are the result of the West (Dow Corporation, USA) attempt to create "silk" materials in their labs when Japan cut off all silk exports from Pacific countries during WWII. It is a known fact that silk materials was first discovered and used in China for clothing and others. Here we are discussing innovations among other things, not inventions.
DOUBLEMINT
QUOTE (SkyBurial @ Apr 24 2011, 05:42 PM) *
Lol, don't you know that Chinese in China have a habit of looking down on overseas Chinese.


Not true,who told you that?
Crossbowmen2
QUOTE (Chan-Ho @ Apr 25 2011, 04:23 AM) *
I agree with this assessment thus far, but I disagree about Asian innovation moving forward. The West were pioneers of so much modern society that Asia needs to catch up first before they can innovate. I think once the whole of East-Asia catches up with the West, we will start to see more significant Asian contributions. Give it another 50-100 years and then we'll see.

We Asians need to stop feeling inferior and give credit where its due. White people have created the world we live in and I'm not going to lie, I'm glad they did. Now that Asians have the opportunity to catch-up, it's time for us to make our own contributions. And I hope they are for the betterment of all mankind.


I know your kind cannot innovate but please, leave the rest of us out of it.
Crossbowmen2
QUOTE (faydabakery @ Apr 25 2011, 08:50 AM) *
I do. It's a pretty stupid thing to do when they're an extension of China. lol.


Chinese only look down on c@ck suckers like you.
SkyBurial
QUOTE (Crossbowmen2 @ Apr 24 2011, 08:47 PM) *
I know your kind cannot innovate but please, leave the rest of us out of it.

Wow, racism much?
population1
good job to the whites who have contributed to global corruption, global turmoils, global resources depletion, global pollution, the list goes on.

all these theories they come up with. seriously now, as if these theories are a necessity to life.

many western empires have the same superiority/inferiority complex.

if not for english, I wouldn't know all these stupid things about westernization. if not for western history, I wouldn't have known about their cruelty and greed. if not for any of this, I wouldn't have known other cultures and languages were replaced close to nonexistence by them.

as if all these laws they call it, aren't also founded in other places. there is a thing call natural instinct, and this natural law, constitutional law, law of whatever else they may have, is given by nature as intended. one does not need to know these laws, as spoken under their tongue, as long as one follows the natural course.

damn all their religious and philosophical hypocrisies.

nothing more than a game system, the food chain. *pretends to go along with the program*
faydabakery
QUOTE (Blackdude @ Apr 24 2011, 06:53 PM) *
That's not necessarily true, if said migrants integrate into American culture.


As long as there's Chinese blood in you, you're Chinese. Chinese Americans have to integrate. They're not living in China. It'd be stupid not to adjust to your environment.

QUOTE (DewDrop @ Apr 24 2011, 07:04 PM) *
When did mass migration of Asians in general come into full force? After repeal of the Chinese exclusion act post WW2, or more like 1970s?

Mind you, African Americans didn't even get the civil right to vote until 1960's... The vast majority of Asians started to immigrate into the US around 1970s...

Most Asians in the US realize that if US plummets, they wouldn't give a rats @$$ about this hypocritical, racists, and war-like continental size nation-state (It's actually an empire).


True. Although since the Chinese have been there for 40 years and are intelligent people that can see wrong doings, they need to stand up more - just not with someone as ridiculous as Al Sharpton. But the Chinese need a loud voice. As for the other Asians, they should care. Not all of them are immigrants that can run back to their home countries.

QUOTE (DOUBLEMINT @ Apr 24 2011, 07:36 PM) *
Not true,who told you that?


It's true. Ask mainland Chinese what they they about Chinese from even Hong Kong, much less abroad on the other side of the world.

QUOTE (Crossbowmen2 @ Apr 24 2011, 08:49 PM) *
Chinese only look down on c@ck suckers like you.


Whether you're a white guy pretending to be Chinese or a Chinese racist, you are an incredibly dumb fool.

QUOTE (population1 @ Apr 24 2011, 08:55 PM) *
good job to the whites who have contributed to global corruption, global turmoils, global resources depletion, global pollution, the list goes on.

all these theories they come up with. seriously now, as if these theories are a necessity to life.

many western empires have the same superiority/inferiority complex.


Good job pointing out the problems of white people. Bad job thinking that Chinese are above "global corruption, global turmoils, global resources depletion, global pollution, the list goes on."
Blackdude
QUOTE (faydabakery @ Apr 24 2011, 08:05 PM) *
As long as there's Chinese blood in you, you're Chinese.



How you live is what makes you chinese, not blood. Genetically speaking east asians come in few variety, does that make them all Chinese? No, it's the culture.




QUOTE (faydabakery @ Apr 24 2011, 08:05 PM) *
Chinese Americans have to integrate. They're not living in China. It'd be stupid not to adjust to your environment.



That's besides my point, I never mentioned not integrating or anything like that.
faydabakery
QUOTE (Blackdude @ Apr 24 2011, 09:12 PM) *
How you live is what makes you chinese, not blood. Genetically speaking east asians come in few variety, does that make them all Chinese? No, it's the culture.


They're still Chinese. They just have a much more complicated situation. How many people do you know that have to learn about TWO cultures - American and Chinese, just to be "Chinese" and "American." Generally speaking, how many people do you know have the time to be really culturally adept to two cultures. What about some American born Chinese who know a few things about China but not nearly as much as someone born in China. Are you saying they're not Chinese? What's the cut off for a "cultural" Chinese person?
population1
QUOTE (faydabakery @ Apr 24 2011, 08:05 PM) *
Chinese Americans have to integrate. They're not living in China. It'd be stupid not to adjust to your environment.

Good job pointing out the problems of white people. Bad job thinking that Chinese are above "global corruption, global turmoils, global resources depletion, global pollution, the list goes on."


that would mean Asian Americans, correct? integration is an option, which is either disposable at one's convenience. so, better to be within your own racial/ethnic group than to be astray and end up in isolation only to get chewed out and canned by racist whites.

now that you've mentioned it, is it chinese or china? if it's the latter, I wouldn't think china is a major contributor or a leading cause besides the industrial pollution the U.S. implants on them to manufacture U.S. brands.




Titanium
While not everything he says is false, the overall tone of his voice seems to be very racist and Eurocentric.

Blackdude
QUOTE (faydabakery @ Apr 24 2011, 08:41 PM) *
They're still Chinese. They just have a much more complicated situation. How many people do you know that have to learn about TWO cultures - American and Chinese, just to be "Chinese" and "American." Generally speaking, how many people do you know have the time to be really culturally adept to two cultures. What about some American born Chinese who know a few things about China but not nearly as much as someone born in China. Are you saying they're not Chinese? What's the cut off for a "cultural" Chinese person?


You're kinda not hitting what I'm saying. So, I'll just bold what I mean't.

If someones cut off from their culture, they are not part of that culture and by cut off I mean they don't practice or live by that cultures norms whatsoever.

QUOTE (population1 @ Apr 24 2011, 08:52 PM) *
that would mean Asian Americans, correct?


No, I mean Americans of Asian descent. Not someone from china living in America, someone who's ancestors are Chinese, but know nothing about the culture.
chiuchimu
QUOTE (Lorax @ Apr 24 2011, 06:28 PM) *
The elephant in the room and the reality to which this author is blinded to is that europeans and America built their civilization on the backs of others such as Native Americans, Africans and Asians.

China had the technology to colonize the world but did not because the Chinese simply lack the will to steal, murder and rape others like the white man.


Yes. The truth beneath the lies. and this OP brags about it. embarassedlaugh.gif
DewDrop
Chinese invented Gunpowder, and Chinese invented Compass.

British and French overseas empires would not have been possible if the compass was not invented, nor would Vasco Da Gama or Columbus discovered Americas without Chinese compass.

How else would you colonize others without gunpowder? It's the only thing about Guns that are important, much more than rifling, trajectory of projectile, etc... etc... A gun is not a gun without gunpowder, it's just a steel barrel which you can use to clean windows with.

Conclusion: Just be glad that Chinese were not war-like people, and Confucian roots held contempt of the urge for conquest of culturally inferior barbarians rotating around the fringe of the vast ethnocentric universe known as the Middle Kingdom, center of civilization that is the oldest and greatest humanity has ever produced.
InitialDJay
you need to have the opportunities, resources, and a mindset willing to fail to be innovative. nobody can sit on a desk alone and all of a sudden, think of a magical invention. that's a fantasy that you often see on cartoon channels. embarassedlaugh.gif

first of, to be innovative, you have to learn of the basic step, the history behinds the theory and its ongoing debate (usually a very controversial one). then list the alteratives and derive a conclusion based on all your knowledges of that fields.

asians lack theoretical approach to science. too much emphasized on being an experimentalists and followers.
KraterosHellas
asians focus too much on memorization and "catching up" with the west. but since the west is in decline now it's time asians take the lead and initiative. asia should start dictating the rules, fashion, technology, culture etc.
InitialDJay
i felt asians missed out the opportunity for the 2nd scientific revolution, which i considered to be the quantum physics in the early 20th century. that was the most important period in the history of modern science, yet not even one asian cracks into the echelon of elite scientists. it's sad, because today it's almost impossible to form new ideas due to restrictive on information sharing (patent right!) and we're likely peaking in theoretical science.

however, there is hope. everything we know from particle to wave mechanics can be wrong. i am hoping that this is the case, and that would be the only chance for asians to show their intelligence.
charizardpal
Yes...the principals of fire which we've held true when cooking our breakfasts since the beginning of time could be wrong too. It doesn't really heat up objects up at all...it is my mind that thinks things are being heated up, but in fact fire is a sentient being that can cause illusions, and which emitts particles that can stimulate the neurons in your brain and alter your brain waves. I'm telling you everything we hold true in the world is just an illusion created by the god of fire to distract you from the truth.
cloverleaves
QUOTE (Hugham @ Apr 24 2011, 11:11 AM) *
Why Have Asians Not Dominated?
High intelligence may not be enough.
Robert Henderson

It is now generally accepted among serious students of intelligence that Asians have the highest average IQs of any racial group. As Richard Lynn has reported in his comprehensive study, IQ and Global Inequality, East Asian countries such as China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore, have average IQs in the range of 105 to 108. This clearly exceeds the averages Prof. Lynn has found for the 29 European countries, which range from 92 to 102 (for a review of IQ and Global Inequality see “Survival of the Fittest,” AR, June 2007). The question therefore arises, why have Asians not dominated — economically, culturally, and politically?

Before addressing this question directly, it is necessary to debunk a number of Western myths about China in order correctly to assess Asian achievement. There is, of course, more to Asia than China, but its population represents the great majority of East Asians, and throughout most historical periods, it has been the center of East Asian cultural achievement.

To the extent that Westerners think about China’s place in history they see it as having been a unified state with a single culture and language and a continuous history that stretches back thousands of years. They also think of it as having always been culturally and technologically ahead of the West until relatively recently. Joseph Needham, for example, propagates this myth in his monumental Science and Civilization in China.

In fact, the history of China has been as politically messy and fractured as that of Europe. The country was not even nominally unified until the third century BC — under the short-lived Chin dynasty (221-207 BC) — and has spent more than half the time since then split between competing dynasties or under foreign rule. Examples are the period of warlords in the 5th and 6th centuries AD, the Northern and Southern Sung dynasties from 960-1126, and rule by Mongols (1279-1368) and Manchus (1644-1912). Even during times of supposed unification, the control the emperor could exercise was very little compared to that possible in a modern, industrial state.

As for China’s presumed cultural unity, there is not a single language understood throughout China. The division between Cantonese and Mandarin is reasonably well known in the West, but there are other fault lines. The former leader Deng Xiaoping spoke with such a heavy accent and dialect that his daughter interpreted for him when he spoke in public. There is not even a single, standard written language.

China is far from being a unified racial/ethnic entity. It contains within its borders approximately 100 million people who are members of minority groups. It makes no more sense to speak of China as a continuous state or single civilisation than it does to speak of Europe as a continuous state or single civilization.

Nor is there a special antiquity to Chinese achievements. In the use of metals, the Chinese were no earlier than the peoples of the Middle East and Mediterranean, and were certainly later when it came to agriculture and writing.

Even in antiquity, China was not always more culturally advanced than Europe. The Cretans and Mycenaeans had sophisticated cultures that predated classical Greece, and the achievements of the Greeks and Romans were immense. China cannot be said to have been ahead of these

To take an example from a later period, today there exist few Chinese buildings predating the Ming era (1368-1644). Before that time, most Chinese buildings were made of wood. China has nothing to compare with the great stone buildings of the European and Mediterranean ancient world, the magnificent castles, abbeys, cathedrals, and churches of the European mediaeval period, and the amazing architectural diversity of modern Europe. Construction of Notre Dame began in Paris in 1163 and the cathedral was largely completed by 1250. There is nothing from China of this period that demonstrates anything like the same level of both intricacy and magnificence.

It is true that before the modern period (say 1500 AD), the Chinese made a number of discoveries before Europe but the opposite is also true. The Chinese made paper, mixed gunpowder, and had the compass first, but Europe was first with the Archimedean screw.

Even when China invented something earlier, Europeans sometimes produced it later independently. The classic example is moveable type. China and Korea had moveable type many centuries before Gutenberg, but there is no evidence Gutenberg was influenced by Asian examples. Movable type quickly became widespread in Europe but was never popular in China. This is probably because written European languages are based on an alphabet with few characters while Chinese is written with thousands of ideograms, each of which requires its own block of type. In any case, since 1700 at the latest, European technology has completely outpaced that of China.


It’s impressive ...

There is far more to civilization than technology, of course, but China falls well short of Europe in social science, philosophy, art, and political organization as well. Throughout their history the Chinese have been very inventive when it comes to practical solutions to particular problems but did not develop theories from practical solutions that offered general explanations of the world. In this sense, China never developed anything that could be called science.

It is also noteworthy that although the Chinese produced many important inventions, they often failed to develop them substantially. When Europeans began to make regular contact with China in the seventeenth century, their guns were far superior to those of the Chinese, even though it was Chinese who had invented gunpowder many centuries previously. The Chinese record of innovation sometimes gives the impression that an invention was made to amuse or to serve the interests of a powerful person rather than to establish an industry or change society.

Lord George Macartney, who headed the first official British diplomatic mission to China in 1793-4, noted that the Chinese seemed to have invented things and then “applied them solely to the purpose wanted, and to never have thought of improving or extending them further.”


... but it’s not Notre Dame.

Adam Smith wrote about China in The Wealth of Nations:
“China has been long one of the richest, that is, one of the most fertile, best cultivated, most industrious and most populous countries in the world. It seems, however, to have long been stationary. Marco Polo, who visited it more than five hundred years ago, describes its cultivation, industry and populousness, almost in the same terms in which they are described by travellers in the present times.”

Perhaps this stationary quality reflected a deep-seated arrogance among Chinese rulers, who viewed any kind of innovation with suspicion. Traditionally, the Chinese elites were contemptuous of other peoples, routinely treating them as subordinates. Lord Macartney’s presents to the Emperor in 1794 were counted as tribute rather than gifts, and the British envoy constantly noticed what we would now call a monstrous superiority complex. When he offered the Chinese products of the early Industrial Revolution, the equivalent of which were unknown in China, they often refused to show any interest in them. This is not an attitude conducive to progress.

Philosophy as we would understand it in the West, that is, analytical thought examining the nature of reality with, in theory at least, an absence of ideological baggage, is virtually absent from Chinese history. Traditional Chinese philosophy never divorced itself entirely from religion and was mainly concerned with how society should be ordered. Its primary purpose was social control, and it is more a series of maxims than an exercise in philosophical enquiry. The let-everything-be-challenged method found intermittently in Western philosophy from at least the sixth century BC appears foreign to the Chinese. Interestingly, the Chinese were great compilers of what we would call encyclopaedias. They delighted in recording what was already known or thought, but had little interest in investigating what was not known or might be thought.

Chinese art and fashion show a similar resistance to change. Look at contemporary depictions of Chinese from 1000 AD. They look hardly any different from the Chinese of 1800. Chinese art shows a similar stability over the same period, being for the most part heavily constrained by convention. Where there is deviation from academic artistic discipline it is mainly found in periods where foreign invaders gained power, most noticeably under the Mongol emperors who imported foreign craftsmen and artists. Chinese fashions and art are like those of ancient Egypt, which show a remarkable stability over several thousand years. This is the opposite of the European cultural experience.

Politically, the Chinese never really moved beyond the state of warlordism or of believing in an absolute ruler who was a god or a man directly in touch with gods. There were attempts to introduce more rational and less absolute forms of government, but these were short lived. Confucianism tried to lay down moral rules for rulers, but that was about the limit of any real attempt to restrain emperors by anything short of violence. Ideas about constitutions restricting what government may do, representative government, or direct democracy never arose in Chinese society. In the West, the ideal of individual political participation dates back to the Greeks, and is present in Europe in the Middle Ages. It is completely absent in China.

The Mandarin system and appointment by examination, which started as early as the 7th century AD, are often proposed as evidence of superior Chinese political organization, but were they really superior to that of the Roman Empire, which predated it by centuries? Was Chinese bureaucracy more impressive than that of the Catholic Church at the height of its power? It is possible to describe the Mandarin system more as a way to control and categorize than as a system designed to meet a particular need, such as political rule or the management of assets.

In Chinese history it is also hard to find organizations that perform civic social functions but that are not part of the formal political structure. Examples in the West would be charities, clubs, the co-operative movement, and trade unions. Chinese life has traditionally revolved around the family, while the government provides all forms of larger social organization.

Before the Maoist revolution, China never attempted to go beyond a society of a small elite with immense wealth that left the vast majority in abject penury. There is no Chinese tradition of doubting the justice or legitimacy of such a society. When Europeans began to gain first-hand experience of China from the 17th century onwards, it was common to remark on the tremendous disparities of wealth. As Macartney noted, “[E]very year vast numbers [of Chinese] perish of hunger and cold. The summers are so warm that the common sort go almost naked, and the winter is so rigorous that the mortality is very great from the want of clothing and shelter.”

There was nothing that resembled the corporate charitable concern for the poor found within the Catholic Church, let alone a formal legal obligation to the needy, such as the English Poor Law of 1601. And even after what was supposed to be an egalitarian revolution, for many years the Communist party did nothing more than appropriate to itself the advantages of the Mandarinate but under a different name.

What is Missing?

Why did China never make the jump from trial-and-error technology to true science? Why did it show so little interest in analytical philosophy? Why did it never develop a political system more sophisticated than that of the god-Emperor? Why was the idea of political participation, so widespread in Europe in both the ancient and the late mediaeval world, absent in China? Why was there no civil society?

Could it be that sufficiently propitious circumstances never arose to drive Asians beyond a certain point, that Europe surged ahead by luck rather than any innate difference? This is improbable because China has been a sophisticated society for several thousand years.

The above critique of the myth of Chinese cultural superiority may carry within it suggestions of why Asians have not achieved cultural supremacy. IQ may be a necessary but not sufficient condition for that advance. First, however, it is important to note that IQ is not of a piece. Although the average Asian IQ is higher than the white IQ overall, it is not higher in all respects. Asians score substantially higher than whites on non-verbal tests but lower than whites on verbal tests. They score particularly well on spatial tests.

This IQ profile may be associated with the Asian adherence to an ideographic form of writing. If one set a genius and a dullard the task of developing a writing system, the genius would come up with an alphabet and the dullard some form of pictorial representation. The genius would see that an alphabet was a more economical and powerful means of representation because it required only a small number of symbols. The dullard would merely keep adding to the number of pictures. Of course the Chinese went far beyond crude pictograms, but by retaining a pictorial system they ended up with a form of writing that requires several thousand characters.

In the 15th century, the Koreans invented an alphabet called Hangul, but this was in imitation of alphabets invented by others. It may be that East Asians failed to develop an alphabet on their own because of their leaning towards the visual and the spatial.

The greater Asian aptitude on non-verbal tests and lower ability on verbal tests can also be interpreted as meaning that Asians are adapted to solving what I would call bounded problems. These are problems that have clear boundaries, such as how to build a canal or how to care for silkworms, rather than problems without boundaries, such as inquiring about the nature of the good, the purpose of life, or what constitutes art.

At the same time, IQ is hardly the only measure by which the races differ, and both J. Philippe Rushton and Richard Lynn have written about racial differences in personality. Although intelligence is the best studied and most accurately measured mental trait, there are also reasonably well developed measures of many other traits. Compared to whites, Asians are more cautious, less impulsive, less aggressive, less sociable, less psychopathic, and have lower self-regard (the same can be said about whites compared to blacks). Though they have not been studied as extensively as intelligence, racial differences on these scales are so consistent that it makes almost as much sense to speak of a race or group’s “average personality” as it does to speak of its average IQ.

Asians also have lower levels of testosterone compared to whites (who have less testosterone than blacks), and testosterone is closely associated with aggressiveness, risk-taking, and criminality.

These differences support the conclusion that the Asian personality is less enquiring or adventurous than that of the Caucasian, less verbal or sociable, and more conformist and submissive. This is not the type of personality that — despite an advantage in average IQ — pushes a society towards the achievements that characterize the West: developing an industrial revolution from scratch, creating modern science, giving birth to analytical philosophy, and evolving many varied forms of political life that value the contribution of the individual.

When they are a minority in high-IQ, Western societies, Asians tend to fill technical posts that favor higher IQs, or engage in business, much of which is conducted within their own group. They make relatively little headway in areas that require the highest level of “people skills,” such as politics or advocacy groups. They are excellent accountants, computer technicians, and engineers — these are professions in which their natural abilities blossom — but they do not distinguish themselves in professions that require verbal gifts and gregariousness: politician, comedian, lawyer.

Asians also tend to show very little antisocial behavior. Their crime rates are low, and they rarely portray themselves as victims of racism or demand race-based privileges (though see last month’s cover story, “Asian Race Consciousness”). This tendency to follow the rules and not to call attention to themselves either as a group or as individuals seems to fit the Asian personality.

What has been the Asian record since industrialization? Asians have had the invaluable example of European industry, science, and general cultural heritage, and have made much better use of it than any other non-Western racial group. However, their record is patchy. Japan has been able to duplicate the technology of the West but has not been able to surpass it. In the 1970s, many Americans feared Japan would dominate it economically and financially, but just as it seemed to pull abreast of the West, it began to stagnate and has shown little growth since the 1980s.

China has not been able to bridge the oceanic gulf in wealth and sophistication between its coastal cities and the vast Chinese interior. No Asian society has achieved much success in fundamental scientific discovery or technological innovation that goes beyond the adaptation of what has been invented or discovered elsewhere. Nor, despite the large populations of Asians living in advanced European societies, can we find front-rank scientists in proportion to their numbers. In the social sciences their contributions are practically invisible. This lack of top-level achievement is particularly striking given that Asians have higher incomes than whites, go farther in school, and start more businesses.

Asians have adopted Western culture as well as Western technology. The Japanese, in particular, are famous for imitating both high and low white culture, from Beethoven to the Beatles. Asian Harry Potter fans are among the most frenzied in the world. The sites on Prince Edward Island associated with the children’s book series about Anne of Green Gables attract as many Japanese as they do Americans or Canadians. Asians have enthusiastically copied the architecture of the West and have even been willing to tear down many fine examples of indigenous architecture.

There is no equivalent of Asian mass culture entering white societies. The most that can be found are periodic outbreaks of the use of oriental art and motifs by European designers.

This willingness to imitate might seem odd in view of the traditionally static nature of Asian societies. Perhaps it could be ascribed to the feelings of inferiority that arose when Asians faced the power of the industrialized West. In China’s case it might arise from a sense of humiliation because of European quasi-colonialism in the 19th century. Many Chinese would say they are modernizing only now because they were held back by white control and manipulation, but this does not fit with the facts. China had centuries during which it could have pulled ahead of the West, and European meddling effectively ended in 1949.

In any case, to copy culture as well as technology shows a strange lack of ambition. Why not do something whites have never done?

ne could argue that imitation comes more naturally in conformist, less individualistic societies. Or rather, it may be natural to imitate certain aspects of life but not others. Asians do not show an appetite for imitating social structures. The Japanese and South Koreans may have formally adopted systems of elective government from European examples, but traditional social relations remain strong. Those countries accept practices that in the West would be considered straightforward bribery, and voters are greatly influenced by collective loyalties. As for China, the Communist elite have managed to retain control while allowing some economic freedom. They have certainly avoided democratization, and the government continues openly to manipulate the law.

Japan’s imitation of the West is especially striking, given its earlier suspicions. After some 16th and 17th century experience with European merchants and priests, in the 1630s it took the dramatic step of sealing the country off from all but the most limited European contact. This self-imposed isolation lasted more than two centuries until Commodore Matthew Perry forced trade on the Japanese in 1853.

A new elite ideology then emerged that saw imitation of certain aspects of Western countries as the best way to compete with them. This new ideology was accepted by the people with astonishing readiness despite the earlier policy of isolation. Why did this transition take place so easily? Most probably because of an average personality that is unusually susceptible to authority.

One of the most striking examples of both the remarkable ability and remarkable limitedness of Asians is the history of the Chinese admiral Zheng He. From 1405 to 1433 he commanded a series of seven extraordinary voyages throughout South East Asia and to such places as India, Ceylon, the Arabian peninsula, and even East Africa. The admiral’s largest ships were enormous, six-masted junks estimated to have been 100 yards or more long, and he travelled with tens of thousands of men and hundreds of vessels. His ships were many times larger than anything afloat in the West, and if the Chinese had devoted themselves to sea power, they would certainly have dominated trade and could have discovered and colonized the Americas.

However, there was a change of emperor, and the new regime had no interest in exploration. Zheng He died on the last voyage, and the emperor ordered the fleet burned. That was the end of China as a maritime power.

In the hands of the West, sea power dramatically changed history. In the hands of the Chinese, it was a means to satisfy a fleeting curiosity about foreigners. China had unsurpassed technology, but did not have the spirit to turn that technology into world or even regional dominance.

Despite their higher average IQ, Asians have failed to become the culturally dominant race probably because innate personality traits work against them. Compared to Europeans, they are passive, unquestioning, and lacking in initiative. The next 50 years will probably see a continuing rise in the economic and military power of China, but if history is any guide, this rise in power will not be matched by innovation, and China’s cultural contributions will remain insignificant. AR

Mr. Henderson is a history and politics graduate whose career was divided between the public and private sectors. He is now retired and lives in Britain.

http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/10/index.html#cover


blah blah blah. He sure rambles a lot, what's he trying to say, really?
charizardpal
QUOTE (cloverleaves @ Apr 25 2011, 12:53 AM) *
blah blah blah. He sure rambles a lot, what's he trying to say, really?


'Mr. Henderson is a history and politics graduate.'
cloverleaves
QUOTE (SkyBurial @ Apr 24 2011, 06:42 PM) *
Lol, don't you know that Chinese in China have a habit of looking down on overseas Chinese.


Well this hasn't been my experience. Although sometimes I feel they don't see overseas Chinese as one of them. They do look down on certain groups of people, but they certainly don't look down on rich overseas Chinese.
cloverleaves
QUOTE (charizardpal @ Apr 25 2011, 01:58 AM) *
'Mr. Henderson is a history and politics graduate.'


lol . . .the article is a joke, I just can't take it seriously.
HotdogLotion
1)Apparently the author lacks very basic understanding of Chinese history and is very eruo-centric.

2)Apparently the author has not much of acedemic credential to speak of.

3)Apparently the topic starter is either an idiot or perhaps has a similar background as the author.

***** about the author from wiki *****
Robert Henderson (born 1947) is an unemployed dissident and Usenet troll who has caused public controversy with his views on racial issues and his letters to the former British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
*********************************

Now..... That's hilarious!!! LMAO
PeterKChan
His assessment of Asian minorities in western nations is flawed because he will never be able to see or comprehend it from the other side.

1) The Western media (ie Hollywood) is the main culprit behind why Asians are not able to advance socially or even politically in society
2) Asians are still the smallest minority and thus, it is understandable why we do not yet have total collective political and social advances. We do have politicians, but they often cannot get enough votes to win. Yet, we've made strides. Gary Locke being elected Governor of Washington and San Francisco Mayor Lee are examples of that. Only time and numbers can improve this area.
3) Why aren't blacks ahead of whites if he makes a point of saying Asians cannot surpass whites because of inherently lower count of testosterone, aggression, raw impulse, etc?
4) The modern achievement of the West did not start from scratch either. The European Renaissance started in Italy. They derived a lot of influences from contacts with the Middle East, India and even China (Marco Polo being one example). The biggest source was from the Moors in Spain. Had it not been for the Muslim Moors, all of Europe would have been reduced to illiteracy during the Dark Ages.
5) What he fails to mention is what brought down the Roman Empire will probably do the same for modern Western nations (ie immigration of inferior peoples and subsequent race mixing/amalgamtion with them). That is a problem that the Japanese and Chinese probably will have less of.
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (HotdogLotion @ Apr 25 2011, 01:13 AM) *
1)Apparently the author lacks very basic understanding of Chinese history and is very eruo-centric.

2)Apparently the author has not much of acedemic credential to speak of.

3)Apparently the topic starter is either an idiot or perhaps has a similar background as the author.

***** about the author from wiki *****
Robert Henderson (born 1947) is an unemployed dissident and Usenet troll who has caused public controversy with his views on racial issues and his letters to the former British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
*********************************

Now..... That's hilarious!!! LMAO


at least he's british. let's give him credit for that. if this was written by an american god knows how much more of us would die from laughing so hard.
Forummember
Then why havent Asians dominated?

Dont say again that Asians havent dominated because they are only cruel to their own people and not to other people, because that doenst make any sense..
faydabakery
QUOTE (Blackdude @ Apr 24 2011, 10:18 PM) *
You're kinda not hitting what I'm saying. So, I'll just bold what I mean't.

If someones cut off from their culture, they are not part of that culture and by cut off I mean they don't practice or live by that cultures norms whatsoever.



I get you but your POV is a pretty extreme one especially with all the different means of communication today. I suppose the only people that do have an extreme chance to be cut off from their culture would be someone who is multiracial.
planxty
QUOTE (Hugham @ Apr 24 2011, 05:11 PM) *
Why Have Asians Not Dominated?
High intelligence may not be enough.
Robert Henderson

It is now generally accepted among serious students of intelligence that Asians have....

Interesting article. Thanks for posting.
qwerty2010
This article is so BADLY WRITTEN, so PLEASE don't give it the undue attention it doesn't deserve. This reminds me of the other silly stream-of-consciousness interview by another Sinophobe whose name I forgot as he is really not worth memory space.

There's no theory, no hypotheses, no social or scientific basis for any of his opinions. It's an opinion piece, and a crudely structured one.

I appreciate a good critique, as you can learn a lot from an insightful article, but this is so far off the mark.

It's like asking, "Why has Buddhism not Expanded? A Well-Developed Religion may not be enough" and then going on to extol the Evangelism of Christianity and attributing its success at expansion to its inherent superiority over Buddhism without understanding that the crux of Buddhism ISN'T about recruiting converts, or the power of Pascal's Wager.

Of course the Chinese are a politically introverted people but China traded extensively with the Near East and South East throughout history, to the extent of adopting a S Asian religion like Buddhism, so it's not xenophobic. Its lack of ambition to conquer and expand its empire is not based on some inferior trait, it is based on a strong moral, philosophical and historic belief in NON-INTERFERENCE, which evolved out of the conditions of its situational context and necessity. The basis of this is rooted DEEP in Confucianism, in particular The Golden Rule "Do not do unto others...". Further, ever since Confucius wrote the first annals of Chinese History - the "Spring & Autumn Warring States" - indicting corrupt and unwise rulers, Chinese leaders have been fearful of being condemned for posterity by Chinese historians.

It's Chinese culture - we celebrate Duanwu in honor of a patriot like Chu Yuan, we eat deep-fried "Kuei", the hated husband and wife Kuei who betrayed our hero Yue Fei, few Western societies damn their murderous leaders this way, through sadistically prepared cuisine. We hold avarice, treachery and cruelty in high contempt, we feel colonialism is immoral. Of course China is not a likely empire builder, it just not in our DNA. We're only interested in defending what we have. Our main fault lies in our snobbery and arrogance as we refuse to copy and learn from others, that's changing, from all the Made in China fake LV bags. embarassedlaugh.gif

As for developing an alphabet......the Chinese feel insulted if they have to make a drastic change in favor of making learning easier, especially when it is considered their cultural heritage and treasure. Simplified Chinese is more pragmatic but the Chinese feel that it lacks the beauty of the ancient script. This is why the hanfu is wrapped over from the LEFT, even though most Chinese are RIGHT-HANDED. The more difficult way is kept by CHOICE.

This author has no understanding of how Asians think and feel, and he is attributing his own negative connotations to a culture about which he is clueless. This is why the Chinese belief in NON-INTERFERENCE is important in order to keep good relations, otherwise, it leads to judgmental idiocy like this.
Hugham
Well, actually his opinion in the article......is also a general image of China and Chinese people in the West.

You can see many evidences all over the internet. I frequently read the same opinion in English forum, comments, blogs, articles, etc.
orient

The author's opinion reeks off insecurity embarassedlaugh.gif
Mid-Night_Sun
all this domination crap is so colonial europe. hes so entrenched in that primitive ideal he doesnt even know it. Chinese "domination" was satisfied with culture and symbolism. which is why tributary system was enough. Chinese were far more introverted to bother sailing for months at sea to go kill some natives and take their land.

where is the motivation? European explored because they want gold, they want trade, they looked for India, etc. China had everything already.
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