Source: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/dar...0617-1g7si.html

Darkness behind the guru-bubble

June 18, 2011

After careful thought, I have decided, like the Prime Minister, that I have no time in my busy schedule to meet Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso, aka His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.

This may be my loss. When Tony Abbott saw the bouncy bonze on Tuesday he announced that their meeting had been "good and constructive". He had gained "an added consciousness of the importance of the spiritual dimension to life", he said, without a hint of irony.

Makes you feel all warm and runny inside, that does. Perhaps they discussed homosexuality, where their views happily coincide, one mad monk to another. His Holiness regards gay or lesbian sex as a sin, and even masturbation - or "use of the hand", as he coyly puts it - is "sexual misconduct''. And oral sex, too. And gay marriage. Also bad.

The starry-eyed idealists who believe the Dalai Lama to be goodness incarnate must be unaware of this puritan streak. His Holiness swans around the world on a cloud of adulation, much of it generated by an uncritical Western media.

Journalists who would not hesitate to take a stick to the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury for their failings report the Dalai Lama's giggly banalities with all the fawning solemnity of truth revealed. There is a curious notion in the West that Asian religions in general, and Tibetan Buddhism in particular, have reached an ethereal plane of spiritual perfection beyond the reach of the rest of us.

Yet some of his stuff is just plain barmy. Reincarnation is as silly as it gets. After the Hollywood tough guy Steven Seagal forked out a whopping donation, the Dalai Lama discovered that he had once been a 17th-century Buddhist master named Chungdrag Dorje. The actor, famed for his on-screen violence, was therefore a "tulku", or sacred vessel. Hollywood loves guru-babble. Richard Gere, Sharon Stone and Goldie Hawn are also devotees.

Silliness is one thing. Nastiness is another. The so-called apostle of kindness has been ruthless in crushing a rival Tibetan Buddhist sect known as Dorje Shugden, expelling its monks from monasteries and ostracising or exiling its adherents.

And it is almost forgotten now, but about 20 years ago he accepted more than $2 million in donations from the Japanese terrorist Shoko Asahara, leader of the Aum doomsday cult, who thereafter murdered 11 people and poisoned thousands more by releasing sarin nerve gas in a Tokyo subway.

So I don't think Julia Gillard missed a lot of spiritual uplift. Until corrected at a press conference, the old nutter thought that she was a he.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/dar...l#ixzz1Q5drHOOO

Note: Tony Abbott is the current opposition leader in Australia, he met with Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso a few weeks ago while Julia the PM refused to give an audience and for good reason too, she knows which side of her toast is buttered. If China stops buying Oz raw materials it will send the Oz economy spiralling downwars so fast before you can say boo!

Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso has had several visits to Oz. He also announced not long ago that his successor, will definitely be born outside China, and most probably in the US or the West and he will a Westerner too, how convenient may be a blue eye and blond variety?

Sometimes I think the Dalai Lama's logic is very odd, like that of an immature school boy.

hehehe elleXO, i know yours is like that too!

And you? Just like Del, you think you know it all but you do not. Don't delude yourself.

me think like the dutch indonmie, she drives KIA the korean made car..

whats wrong with KIA cars??? i used to drive a suzuki jeep in africa, in Singapore, i take the MRT. If u drive in Singapore, u must be earning $$$! Are u a lawyer?

I disagree with Elle so... i know it all? Is deluding myself? So you say you are right? Don't delude yourself. :P



Btw, today, Maserati Quattroporte. You can't find those in Asia.

there's maseratis in Singapore dude... how did u do it? carjacking?

Ah ofcourse, but you won't find them outside HK, TW, Tokyo, SP or KL.

Just connections, no criminal ones. Sometimes I help modifying the interior.

I don't understand the KIA comment. Nothing wrong with those. Probably bad attempt to generalize.
''all people who disagree with us think they know everything and drive kia cars.''

Don't mind the Suzuki Jeep, but much prefer the three pointed stars variety with rooms for the kids. And yes I do drive in SG, no big deal really. As to the MRT urg, how is that even possible in high heels? Do you wear only flats?

Nothing wrong with KIA though I wouldn't be caught dead driving one. KIA also stands for Know It All.

Only a brain dead little dutchy indonmie will ignorantly states that Maserati Quattroporte can't be found in Asia then proceeded to cite its presence in a few Asian cities ... DELusional and DELirious no doubt and stupid to the max! Quattroporte is spotted even in Jakarta.

wow......
Are you proud of yourself when you make those comments? You are such an agitator/instigator/troll.

I meant to say that you can't find those so easily. I haven't seen them in Asia, but then again my eyes weren't out for the cars. And you call it stupid? I admitted my error, i don't call that stupid. I realized that you can find those cars in the cities, but outside where the roads aren't that great, you won't see them so easily.

You really are a double faced rat. Shall i remind everyone of your idiotic posts. For example the one you say people who insult don't have intellect, and the sentence after you claimed that you start to insult yourself. Or the posts where you call me indon, all the posts you ignore where you can see that Indon is derogatory in Indonesia. The post where you claim you aren't racist, where you post you fight for minorities and the posts where you made racist remarks to different groups? You contradict yourself all the time. Find a post off me where i contradict myself. good luck.

Am sorry, but in this forum we are too smart for you. No one, except Elle, agrees for you.
Your insults suck too and don't show much intellect. You fail as a human, as a Christian and as a debater.

Have fun in this unmoderated forum.

China is not as powerful as people think. China may have the money but Australia has the raw materials China needs. It is like you having a Prada bag filled with cash shopping at Cartier that has the jewellery you need. Oh, you could shop somewhere else but you won't be able to arouse as much envy from others at your dinner table with your Cartier earrings, matching sparkling brooch and diamond ring.



The Dalai Lama is a Buddhist practitioner who is not respected in your circle. Jesus was also derided in his time. By the way, re-incarnation is well established fact in scientific world. Unlike Buddhists who believe that we can re-incarnate from pigs and goats and bees, scientists believe that all mankind re-incarnated from only one specie of animals: apes.

Note the contradiction and lies which are so typical of little indonmie's persona.


DELusional and DELirious little indonmie implied that he is right and not delusional, where as elleXO is. Then came this bit of fluff: You can't find those in Asia. When corrected by Tanga he detracted and said the following:


Presumably in DELrious and DELusional little indonmie empty skull, HK, TW, Tokyo, SP or KL are part of the Netherlands, not Asia. He should modify the interior of his skull. Perhaps a refit of a new brain would help!


WOW....... indeed Just because something is not seen doesn't mean it is not there... AND if little indonmie does help to modify the interior of the Quattroporte surely he would know what the car looks like, it is not as though it is a common Toyota Camri or Vios now is it? Just spieling out at will with whatever comes into his empty skull, that is what being trollish is! An indon troll!!


It is not the question of China's power. It is about the fact that the Oz economy depends on China's need for its raw materials particularly iron ores and coals. What exactly is your problem? Do you like to argue just for the sake of it?


What exactly do you mean by in 'your circle'? The D Lama is a Buddhist practioner? No kidding, thanks for that bit of enlightening info. So you were a monkey once then?

Chutzy, wow you have kids and drive a mercedes benz! Are you a full time mom? Do you worry about your kids being dhimmis in Singapore someday with the rise of Islamic politics in Malaysia?

By the way, can we be more reasonable and gentlewomanly? When you protested about calling you "aunty" and ellexo "gramps", I refrained from using those terms u considered derogatory. Del and several Indo forummers have protested your use of "Indon" on this forum, can you discontinue to use that term as flame bait on the Indochat?

hahaha, she really likes me, doesn't she? Fun thing she thinks she haves me now, over an argument about a car. It is also funny how this expert of christianity abandons the teachings of her religion everytime when she argues. Sadly the world is full with people who use selective indignation everyday.

I was not arguing. You are entitled to your opinion. I was merely displaying mine alongside yours to offer another choice in viewing the situation. Economic relationship, sadly, is not a one way street and China is not doing Australia any favor. Are you doing merchants any favor when you buy things like food and clothing from them?



By 'your circle', I mean people with your mind-set. We are all like little children with small minds sitting in circles in Asiafinest Kindergarten. Like-minded kids in circle A, and others with common views of a different kind in circle B. Like that.

So who's the 'headmaster', narveen?

Still a free agent Tang? FYI I never protested about being called aunty and elleXO gramps. I did disagree however with your manners and you poking fun at his age, please get your fact straight. You can call me anything, the indons have and continuously do so, its all stick and stones to me..... water of duck's back you know, nothing to it. Well, do you wear flats when you get the MRT?


Need you ask... of course it is naaaarrr... who is free from any biasness, prejudices, preconceived notions and assumptions.

C, I don't know how you have the patience with these dead-beats.

^ dunno, maybe chutzy is just less anal and uptight than u? how's ur foray into Del's recommended islamic sites coming along? did they take your flame-baits politely?

chutzy, i don't wear stilettoes, it's fit-flops or havaianas!

how do u drive ur kids around with 6 inch louboutins??

Christian Louboutin said that wearing flip flops is like being in a bad relationship.
Shoes for women are meant to make her beautiful to men rather than comfortable.

When a woman tries on a pair of shoes at Jimmy Choo's, she never looks at the shoes.
She looks at her breasts and her a55 and how the shoes transform her body.

Chutzy should go for confession.

Wow, sounds like the Dalai Lama has a lot to learn about women's shoes.
Maybe Emelda Marcos can give him some lessons??

I risked my life sharing this secret about women's shoes.
I hope you use it for good, not evil.

cheekopek!

This is to be expected of a racist with double standards. We retaliated your hostility. I even came to you and offered a truce, so we can debate normal again. I didn't see you acting like a grown-up. About the indo/indon thing, you can rationalize all you want, but you are still trampling over peoples emotions. The only thing you proof by being stubborn is that you are no hair better than all other racists and haters. I hope it is just you being stubborn, instead of being ignorant.

Also, your insults go very very low, to the point they are not good anymore.

Your point of view is well taken and she could be as nasty as you see her.
But she doesn't see herself that way.
Can you explain why two different point of views can arise in one interactive situation?

naarveen, Don't mind him as he has a very low intelligence quotient.

Yes, we both have different views. She think she is right, i think i am right, you think you are right, Elle thinks he is right, Tanga thinks she is right and Avisitor thinks he is right (he will probably say he isnt :P). But we all should respect each other's ideas and not resort to insults.

But, Elle and chutzy start to attack the religion of 1.4 billion people and try to put them in bad light. They don't do justice to the religion, because they only look at the bad side of it. The peaceful side of the majority......, you won't hear them talking about it. Elle knows how the terrorist muslim reasons by using the Qu'ran, but he is completely oblivious to how the (right) peaceful Muslims reasons and even starts to claim that the terrorists are the most righteous. They even abandon their own teachings of their Christian religion while doing it. Perfect examples of selective indignation and ignorance. But with chutzy i believe she is just very stubborn, instead of ignorant. She also shows disrespect to Indonesians and Malaysians. She might point out the bad sides of them (most are true, but just account for a small group of people) , but she does it in a discriminating way, while being ignorant to herself.

But to answer your question again, we all think we are (70%-100%) right. We will have a hard time to convince the other. Why? we all are raised differently and experienced different situations. We all have a different style of how create/send our messages and of how we receive/interpret the messages.

That may be so but I am so bored I could talk to a wooden chair.

Why don't you respond to my posts so I can talk with you?

I don't think I am right. I know I am right.

Even my dog knows he is right but that doesn't mean a thing.
If you know you are right but you have to sit, stay and roll over because I say so, then life can be a beech.

I am still right...but you are not wrong.

Anyone here wants to be a subject of fMRI imaging of their brain for neuroscience research? No money paid but u get a snack.

Sam Harris doing the research?
Anyway, what is the snack? Kit Kat?

So, why do we have this compulsion to convince the other? We are not in a marriage situation where we are stuck in a relationship and need to iron things out. Somehow we get irritated and enrage even when our viewpoint is rejected, criticized or ridiculed by people on the internet that we will never meet in real life.

what they served to the Pavlov dog?




It depends if the beliefs u are challenging are dogmatic or not.

Folks get "offended" when they are challenged on their dogmatic beliefs. Dogmatic beliefs are difficult to change in the heat of the argument. Maybe after sometime, in the quiet of their mind, these dogmatic beliefs may change and be replaced, and along with it, the initial reaction of anger, which may arise and fester or may just pass away until the next exchange. Anyways, u know someone is dogmatic when they keep on coming back again and again to the same dogmatic points. They search for evidence to continuously support their case. They evince no empathy for those holding opposite views.

In the sciences and in philosophy we tend to have beliefs or intellectual opinions about subjects, but a lot of the people that are part of these intellectual communities don't hold onto their beliefs dogmatically and that is the key idea in these intellectual discussions.

There's a book called "What Have You Changed Your Mind About", have you read it yet? It's a good idea to start a thread about that.

wizi, beliefs are never dogmatic, only bull-headed people are. But I know what you mean.



Sounds like you are describing elleXO. He is sure of himself, but then so would be the Buddha who had seen the truth.
elleXO is a good case study. The Buddha is dead and cannot be observed. There is nothing wrong with being sure of yourself when you know you are right but my question is about the need to defend one's point of view. Whatever for? If the other guy cannot or refuses to see your point of view, why press on? This we do constantly. Actually, I like the fact that we do. But I wonder why people are dogmatic. They just won't let go even over nothing.

I remember a kung fu movie scene. This guy was eating wonton mee (or something like that) at a hawker stall in an alley way somewhere in China. After slurping up his noodle, he put down his bowl and started to leave. The hawker asked for payment but he had no money. He ran off when the hawker got mad. The hawker gave chase, caught up with guy and started pounding him. Along came a rich guy, holding bird cage in his hand. He told the hawker to calm down and asked him what was his fury about? Hawker told his story and the rich man said:"Please, let him go. This is not a big matter. Here is some money to pay for his food." Was the hawker dogmatic? What about the rich guy? He saw the hawker's point of view, accepted it and paid him for the wonton mee. He didn't convince the hawker to change his mind.



This is true only if they are objective in their inquiry. This require a disciplined and tidy mind. Also, in the field of science, theories are based on established facts and subjected to experimental verification. Philosophy is something else. Do I sound dogmatic like elleXO?



No, I haven't read it. I will check it out even though I will never have a reason to change my mind about anything.

If u think the Buddha peddles dogma, i think u don't understand his discourses at all...

Ok granted, the later schools of buddhism peddled the dogmas of hell and there was some talk about reincarnation etc all without evidence ... but the discourses of the buddha is all about finding out for yourself what's in store in your own bull-headed mind.




it's addiction.. mental addiction



If it was the buddha or christ or chuang tse listening to the hawker, what do u think they'll do?

so are you gonna give avisitor a small fortune to re-start his restuarant?




There are scientists who dogmatically defend their findings despite contrary evidence being produced... but the beauty of the scientific process is that it allows for new evidence to replace the dogmas eventually. Reason prevails eventually.




i think u change your mind every second of your life...

Hi wizi, my father asked me to send you this reply. He has been banned and don't know why.



If you use reason, the Buddha in the story of Gotama is the stuff of folklore which should not be confused with historical facts. In other words, it is one of the tales that grandma tells. The dogmatic Buddhist would howl blasphemy and throw me off a cliff with both hands free.

What is of value, though, is the moral of the Buddha story. And what you call discourses of the Buddha are actually scriptures of the various schools of buddhism founded on folklore. So, if you push all that aside, you are left with the moral which, to you, is finding out for ourselves what is in store in our bull-headed minds.





Sam Harris might call that OCD, obssessive compulsive disorder.



If I were to hazard a guess, I would see the following scenarios:

The hawker, on seeing the all-compassionate Buddha, would have a change of heart and let things go.
In Jesus' case, the freeloader would run to the Son of God falling at his feet for protection. The hawker backs off.
Chuangtze wouldn't care because he knows by doing nothing, everything is done; and if he meddles, everything becomes undone.



My father said he would do what a Sikh does: lend him the money for a small monthly interest.



The saving grace is that the dogmatic scientist has to keep getting proof to defend his theories unlike dogmatic forummers
who keep coming back again and again on the same dogmatic points with no empathy for the opposing views. The only exception is Darwin whose baseless theory of evolution is now fiercely defended by his dogmatic adherents.



My father said that there is no mind because it is only a metaphor. The brain is a fact, though. You can crack open the skull and see it.

Will you give him his Kit Kat now?

The good thing about Darwinian defenders is that they are more than willing to change their minds if there are contrary evidence. This is something dogmatic believers are incapable of doing.

Why are our brains wired so differently like that?

I'll love for your dad and elleXO to offer their brains for fMRI cognitive research!

Ok, I'll tell him that. Give me the Kit Kat quick before I am banned.
I am a newbie with only 1 post and already have a warning.

My dad wants to know if there is any other forum you are chatting at?

I guess your father is banned, because he was unreasonable. Especially to Avisitor. I guess that is the main reason. Your father was very interesting and it was nice to read his ''alien'' opinion here. .....But nobody likes a ''d!ck'', especially during emotional times. Does he realize he went to far? Would he go to the family of the deceased during a funeral, tell them their tears are fake and advice them that it is better to kill themselves, because that shows real love?

But still, I and other users of this forum did worse than that and still terrorize this forum, without a warning.

Your father should read this topic btw: http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...t=0&start=0

What about me? I am just 15 and never posted anything on this site before.
Am I hated because I am my father's son?

Do you have a Kit Kat?

hey jageet, tell your dad that nothing is permanent.... that way, he won't feel so bad if he got banned!

here's your snack!! don't hv kitkat lah!!

He doesn't feel bad, just disappointed with the website. He didn't think it shows Asia's finest.
He thought it was run from some mouse town in China; but when he checked, he was shocked to
find out that it is headquartered in Manhattan with a web server located in Dallas!



Chinese snack. Yuck.

Give me a break, kiddo! International forum can not be run from China. Even Facebook was banned in China. There is internet censorship in the PRC.



Tangy, you must respect the cultural differences... how can you post such terrible picture... Damn, I almost puked on my keyboard!

okay... kitkat for jageet



... and panda onigiris for balkan

Hi wizi, my brother (jaageet) asked me to come and get the Kit Kat. He has been banned.
Your Kit Kat is funny looking. Chinese knock-off?

Give my regards (ching chong) to the Chinese policeman controlling this forum.
Bye.

He said he had 4 children right? So just this new one and two more accounts to ban.

They probably got an IP ban now by han2. They was funny...