I am very interested about the dynamics between Korea/Japan/China, and the US. This is why I am here.

Here is a imaginary situation. We all know that Korea, and Japan are "allies" of America. What if a Japanese prime Minister plead to his people to have American bases removed from Japan. The intuitive answer would be " Of course, American is our ally. All we have to do is ask, and they( Americans) will leave". It so happens that Yukio Hatoyama did ask for the US to "leave" Japan, and the American government say "NO". Yukio also made it his priority to draw Japan closer to Korea+ China. This must really pissed off America. He resigned from "disgrace". I wonder what Koreans think about this issue. Why do you think US put so many troops in Korea, and Japan? What do you think America will do if South Korea government ask American army to leave?

Their is a reason why the US Military can strike hard and fast anywhere in the world within 18 hours or less. Also Italy, Germany, Turkey, and even the UK has US troops.

Also the US Troops are their to support against possible NK attacks. Compared to how many troops were in Korea before their are very few. But of course you wouldnt know this because you have an obvious agenda dont you.

You just have to look at the number of troops: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments).
US troops in Germany, Korea, and Japan are all over 10,000+, and everywhere else is less than that. I am say the word "ally" is a mistake. The power dynamic is "unequal". When the Japanese prime minster wanted to get american troops out, they forgot their "role". Japan will buy US security, because America ask. All the China bashing, and not Japan bashing from America( even tho the Japanese also own 1 Trillion t bonds) comes from the reason that america can control Japan/S Korea, and not China. America is using Korea, and Japan to control east Asia. You cannot tell me that Japan/Korea relationship with America is "equal". I am not sure what this relationship is. Perhaps you can tell me.

LOL. Rhetoric ahhhh sweet sweet rhetoric how I miss thy subtle caress.

I can tell you are not the smartest one in your pack. I plan to ask more Koreans, and Japanese about their american "ally". Perhaps, You friends can help me.

There are political factions in Korea that have a vested interest in making the American troops leave. There was a very visible anti-American sentiment after the tank incident in the early 2000s. It has died down in the general public. Most Koreans today probably just want to keep the status quo regarding this. They are unsure about their relationship with China and NK isn't exactly predictable. There is a general perception that the US has played a huge role in South Korea's development and security despite the dark side of history. The US has agreed to keep the number of American military personnel at about 28k and transfer wartime operational control back to South Korea in 2015. So what if American troops leave South Korea? What are the pros and cons?

I dont need to be an uber intelligent smart body to see through your agenda.
Your trying to demonize America as an Imperialist regime.

Because they are. And you have an obvious bias because you are one of the soldiers stationed in Korea.

Also, why can't the Koreans and Japanese defend themselves? Why do they have to rely on the US to defend them? N. Korea is just as close to China as S. Korea (in terms of geography), so if the N. Koreans struck China would definitely react.

Did you fail to read my first post in which I explained that the worldwide bases of the US Military allows it to strike anywhere in the world with force in 18 hours or less?

Also the BCT of the 2nd ID is there to support the defense of SK in case of a North Korean attack.

Look, I doubt China would help NK in an assault against SK. If that happened it would be a UN Intervention. Sorry China cant take on the entire UN it would fail.

LOL you actually think China would attack SK? China isn't the US, delusional much? China is more afraid that NK will act foolishly. If NK ever did anything China would react counter-attack N. Korea. Because if war ever happened in Asia, only Asia would be hurt - not America or Europe.

I said doubt.
You said if North Korea struck China would react.

yeah, China would react by attacking N. Korea.

If a democratically elected government of the ROK asked them to leave - they'd leave.

LOL. If a non-racist government exists in USA, China will not harass your bases.

As if any country in the world does not look after their own interest.
You act if China is some saint.

This lecture by an ex-CIA agent carries a wealth of information but your question is difficult because it appears likely that the Japanese government would never ask or pressure the American government to leave. One of the points admitted by ex-CIA agent is that the United States creates governments who's members are a "fraternity" who are more reliant and loyal to the United states than their own people. They owe America their position in power and if you look at the history in how Japan and South Korea were developed it is very easy to see. Both countries were created by the United States as counterweights to the Soviet Union. Japan unconditionally surrendered after the nuclear halocaust dropped by America and South Korea was funded and created by an American administration without even an inkling of Korean democratic say so of the people. The leaders of these created governments therefore must have been screened by the Americans to ensure they were loyal to the American agenda. A mini-example of this would be the moderator of this forum being the Americans and the posters the members of a government. All the moderator has to do is ban people he doesn't like and what is left are posters who parrot the moderators views. A difficult situation to change once imbedded UNLESS the moderator changes. It is a self perpetuating situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIC7-DnLtg...nel_video_title

Japan - U.S base.
This example shows that Okinawans wanted America out of Japan but this never happened. If Japan was a democratic government it would listen to its people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFrRu5AQSM...nel_video_title



An interesting assertion. Why does America decide if it will listen to an alleged soverign nation's wishes or not to leave its own soil? Japan does not sound like a soverign nation in your own assertion.

Why is being a democratically elected government matter when the United States has eliminated democratically elected leaders and set up despotic ones in other peoples countries?




China is hardly even mentioned here but China's racial problems do not seem as severe as America's and China has no military bases in other people's lands. I don't see anyone portraying China like a saint and all of you'r replies to this thread do not appear to address the issue at all but go off tangent about striking in 18 hours and such? Why is that? It appears as if you are defending America's projection of power into Asia. An imperialistic act is it not?

You'r statement that all countries look out for their interests is correct however is there a difference between merely looking out for you'r own interests and looking out for you'r interests by establishing permanent military bases in other people's lands?

Yes we all know you like how your Dad fawked and sodomized your mom and couple other Korean whores. Good for Korea's "Hurry Up N Buy Whores" Mart right next to please don't burn down my place of business right on front yard.

lol somebody needs to brush up on history

Please dont bring my family into this. I would never ever poke fun at yours.
I can still see your butt hurt over the quarrel that we had earlier this year.
I already apologized for being out of line.

Both my Parents are university educated. and my mother is not a whore.
Correct your attitude attack the man not his parents.

Yeah MacArthur said that in 1950 and guess what happened, we actually did take on the whole UN. If we can do it in 1950 we can do it in 2011. So I suggest you and your white pals in Washington to chill it otherwise we'll have a few more US flags in our war museum.

China is an interesting thing. Even Stalin contemplated invading China and apparently his military adversers were against it.

A lecturer a while back said his advisors told him "comrade Stalin I have no doubt our tanks will be in Beijing within two weeks but, we are not so sure if we will be able to get them out".

If you look at Afghanistan and Iraq you can only imagine what a nightmare it would be in China.

You do realize that MacArthur was forced to resign because he wanted to nuke China and then have an extensive bombing campaign. Obviously that did not happen and do the hilly nature of the Korean peninsula it broke out into pretty much a "grunts" war. When you have highly trained and motivated troops of pretty much equal amounts I think you can understand why a stalemate broke out.

Also Just because the PLA warriors managed to capture unit colors dosent mean the US didnt route entire PLA units as well. Usually a stalemate goes both ways especially when your fighting over hills and ridges.

Like I alwats say to keyboard warriors why dont you join your beloved PLA?
Why stay a civilian if you love your country so much, why just suck of the warrior ethos of your PLA when you can be a real soldier?

Yes but America was a super power then while China had almost nothing so it was impressive.



Not everyone has to be a grunt afterall who will administer the propaganda, earn the money for the economy to function, direct the political agenda and direct where a peoples culture will head? It seems your views defend America's presence in Korea. If you are a grunt I guess it limits you to having to agree on American policy. It seems you are a soldier first and anything else second and your views reflect this.

The Chinese military is downgrading the raw number of its troops anyway due to its modernisation program.

I can contribute more as a civilian though I do have basic military training as part of the mandatory 5 week training given to high school students. I don't need to join the PLA though my cousin did join the air force. Unlike Korea, we don't have conscription here. We have the freedom to choose. And unlike the US, we don't trick minorities into joining the army and becoming cannon fodder for whites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_war#U...._atomic_warfare

MacArthur was forced to resign because tactical use of nukes wouldn't have helped. Operation Hudson Harbor for details:

In October 1951, the US effected Operation Hudson Harbor to establish nuclear weapons capability. USAF B-29 bombers practised individual bombing runs from Okinawa to North Korea (using dummy nuclear or conventional bombs), coordinated from Yokota Air Base in east-central Japan. Hudson Harbor tested "actual functioning of all activities which would be involved in an atomic strike, including weapons assembly and testing, leading, ground control of bomb aiming". The bombing run data indicated that atomic bombs would be tactically ineffective against massed infantry, because the "timely identification of large masses of enemy troops was extremely rare."[

.

Asking for complete withdrawal and removal of a particular military base are different things. As I recall, what Hatoyama demanded was the latter, not the former. Korea pretty much demanded the same thing, and the US has complied. This move, however, has been delayed by none other than the South Korean government.

If South Korea government does demand complete withdrawal of US troops, then the US will have to comply and it will. But if the South Korean government does this without consensus from the South Korean people, then things are a bit complicated. Currently, most South Koreans support American military presence in South Korea, and if the South Korean government unilaterally decides for complete withdrawal, there will be trouble for certain.

BTW, another incident during the visit was reported where the Korean reporters were invited to enter the meeting room and cover the meeting between Kim Kwan-jin and Liang Guanglie, at which point Liang Guanglie suddenly started to criticize the US for selling weapons to Taiwan. Kim Kwan-jin was reported as being embarrassed of the situation, and this was clearly against the diplomatic protocol of previously agreeing upon what part of the meeting is to be covered by the press.

A land war with China on its own turf is simply suicide. The only way you can possibly even think about engaging China in a land war is with Nuclear weapons. MacArthur had the right idea to go nuclear. He knew the costs would be far too great if it's done any other way.

Just think, the Japanese imperial army at the height of its power, invaded China while it was woefully behind in technology, in the thralls of dynastic revolution and simultaneously fighting a civil war, could only manage to conquer parts of the Northeast for a short time.

If you give China an excuse to fight the Korean War again today, I think it's extremely likely that the entire Korean peninsula will be overrun by the North Koreans with Chinese help. As formidable as America's forces are... planes cannot occupy land. Only ground troops can do that. There's no way you can land enough American ground troops in Korea to repel a Chinese land assault today. Period. It's mathematically impossible to win in a land war with China, even with all the air superiority in the world. Even if you win, Korea will be destroyed as an industrial nation for at least a couple of decades. Unfortunately for the South Korean hawks who itch at fighting the North, peace is the only option at this moment in time.

There's no country that can get air supremacy over China's land today. Biggest air force in Asia, only 5th generation fighter in Asia, only indigenous AWACS in Asia. The US will have to haul its entire air force over to win but it can't do that, it has to leave at least half to watch Russia and the Middle East. So there's no way the US can get enough planes over to China to fight an offensive war against us.

Using nukes will get you nuked too. China has enough nukes to guarentee the destruction of either US+2 allies or Russia.

However Koreans should not worry, because Koreans are China's friends. Minister Kim got the right to see our relatively modern J-10 fighter while the whitie Mullen only got to see our Su-27s from 1993. This shows that we care far more about Koreans than we do about Americans.

I think if there was a war in East Asia, America and his fellow White brothers would defend him. The UK, France, Germany, etc...are all in a White brotherhood alliance to keep Yellow, brown, or black people in check. They may pretend to have disagreements, but when it comes to control they are in agreement over White supremacy. They would $hit their pants if they saw yellow people become more powerful than Whites.

You guys are fools if you think Whitey would choose Asians over the West. If America had to choose between saving UK or Korea - they'd pick UK in a heartbeat. It comes down to simple biology - humans are empathetic towards those who look like them. Even babies show this kind of bias.

I come from a long line of warriors on both sides of my family having uncles on both my father's and mother's side serving in the Vietnam war. My father also served in the Vietnam war. One lesson my father taught me before I enlisted was this "Son in war it's not about politics, hell its not even about your country its about the man on your left and to your right. Its about watching his back so he can watch yours, because when $hit hits the fan politics nor love of country will save your skin, it will be your buddy and you gotta do the same for him."

I still consider my self a soldier and soon I will be back in. I love my people both Americans and Koreans, and I will energetically meet the enemies of my people in battle regardless to the toll it will take on my mind, body, and spirit because thats what soldiers do. We fight and we kill.
I wish we could all live in peace and and all have true liberty and live amongst others as equals, but the fact is that is wishful utopian thinking.

I used to be a fervent communist in my Highschool years and Anarchist Communist to be exact I read Malatesta, Proudhon, Bakunin, and Kropotkin like they were the disciples of christ.
I still hold to many of their beliefs and consider them mine but for obvious reasons I can not allow their teachings to cause dissent within my self. To a soldier the mission is always a priority regardless of politic or creed. Hence why I am "no longer a communist."

Europe is basically powerless to project power to East Asia, and they don't consider Russians to be true whites anyways. In fact the US wants to suppress Russia just as much as it wants to suppress China, because Russia while militarily and economically weaker is white (even though the US doesn't admit it), and thus in direct competition with the US for the prized throne as leader of the white world. So about 40% of US forces are for watching Russia and the Middle East.

The other 60% are aimed at us. Now, of those, only a few hundred planes are in striking distance of China while China has 2000+ planes. The rest of the planes have to fly with tankers, and that severely slows the logistics of the entire war down. It's not going to be easy cracking China's defenses.

While Korea and Japan are part of the US chessboard, it will be interesting to see if they'll risk aiding the US in wars of aggression against us. A much large greater portion of our arsenal can strike East Asian targets than North American ones. Even some forms of artillery can be shot across the Yellow Sea and hit Incheon. It would be very unwise for Koreans to allow their airports to be used for US planes taking off, as that would only be painting a big target sign on them for missiles.

It would be better for South Korea's safety if the US left. North Korea isn't going to attack South Korea today anyways, with or without the US, and keeping US soldiers in Korea only paints a gigantic target sign on the entire country for Chinese missiles in case of war. If US soldiers left Korea it would vastly improve South Korea's safety. However, that's not going to happen, and we all know the reason.

I doubt anybody cares about Christ on these forums. Tell me do you pray to the "Nordic" Christ or the true Semitic that would be taken to a backroom and thoroughly checked at the Airport? Nobody on these forums are communist but they do acknowledge that you are a grunt for Zionist Regime that hopes to rule the world. Being educated does not make somebody a communist. I bet a couple of your comrades in war would look the other way and have your skull "zipperhead" in war any day of the week then laugh about it when they put what's left of you to rest. "Dang that Zipperhead really zipperheaded, ain't that right Jerome of course Billy-bob. *all laugh*. You think some redneck barely graduated from HS mofo is going to give a rats @$$ about you?

How is this guy not banned yet?

very simple: destroy hyundai and samsung like they did with toyota

Do u mean that if nk strike sk, china will attack north korea?
Would u have confidence when china attack south korean troops during the korean war far beyond it's breached borders and remained a close ally to nk, while only chinese netizens are the only ones involved in defence of nk's actions on the shelling of the civilian occupied island just a short while ago?

No doubt that there are social unrest that occur with the American troops, us is not more threatening than china when it comes to labelling of imperialism. Us have bias and contempt towards communism and fundamentalist religion, with or without the inherent restriction of freedom perceived in western eyes. South Korea had neither. Also while us still had occupied territories, these are not annexed ie they are not conquered to be integrated into it's national boundary. On the contrary, chinese occupation of Tibet is annexed into chinese boundary and fervently defended with the intention of placing Tibet, Tibetans and tibetan culture as a subgroup of the chinese counterpart.

In the same realms that china had attempted to recreate a new status that culturally, historically and territorially integrate it's current constituents, this just touches on the nerves of several neighboring countries. If ppl keep saying Korea is a vassal state to china in a manner of contempt, it will be ironical to exaggerate us troops at the corners as colonialism. Koreans had border, historical and cultural disputes with china, which further add a barrier for Koreans to trust china in times of war. in my opinion, sk should maintain normal trading relationship with both china and usa with no bias, keep american troops at the bay and decrease the numbers as when sk military had attained overwhelming edge against nk till nk is not a threat, and continue to protect the racial, cultural and historical integrity of the koreans and in the same realms at least in principle empathise the other people who are also at the mercy of being contempted as a subgroup of others.

the koreans is an east asian community as in the other communities around the region, and no matter how modernized and open it is, it will never be like america with a totally different historical and social environment with different social and family values. this is not going to change just becos there is american troops at one corner. there will be people who borders between two identity having living in two different nations, no doubt. in the waves of multiple clones having an issue with the whites which i think is far irrelevant in many discussed issues and taking it very personally, i hope those who had such an agenda return to think when is there such an irrational fear in their life.

Other countries, like in South America, have successfully kicked the US out of its military bases. But probably South Korea is more important to America than they are, so it would resist more - although as long as it has its base in Okinawa it is still a power in the region.

Are you saying that Asians are weak pushovers?....sad I have to admit that I realy admire S. Americans but I really should have more love for my own race.

I think the Korean War proves that Asians are not weak pushovers.

yes. I see the mental construction and it's understandable given your profession.

I'm not so sure his comrades would do that. It would mean the U.S infantry is ineffective.

It's not about race when everyone is fighting for their life. Mutually looking out for each other ensures the increased chances of survival for all. Not only that but the comraderie is built in during their training. They are all abused and broken down regardless of race and then their identities are reconstructed as soldiers and comrades in arms. THey do all that hard training, camping and living together that is a bonding process.

It's like that 300 movie, your shields overlap and protect the guy beside you, one guy who doesn't look out for his neighbour breaks the phalanx and everyone gets messed up. So unless the U.S military is a crock of $hit, it is unlikely that your scenario would happen.

It's fine the way it is. There should be some soldiers to keep the peace.

you are bi-racial with a white father so your views are understandable.

korea tried to develop nukes but america said "your not allowed to play with those little one".

america will leave if it wants to leave not when koreans say so. anyone who says different is a liar or dum.

if north korean regime is ended, and if china bears no threat to taiwan, what reason will be left for americans to have military bases here?

The question was if the S.Korean government asked America to leave would it? And America would not.

The reason why it is staying are irrelevant, the fact that America will not leave shows who is really in charge of S.Korea and the nature of the American presense.

The Taiwan issue has no business with Koreans so I have no idea why you would mention that as some justification other than as sticking your neck out to defend the American presense in Korea NOT for Koreas interests or business but for Americas. Isnt that being a lap dog for America? Yes it is.

As far as North Korean regime is concerned, that is Korea's business and the real question is can the South Koreans deal with North Korea as they choose? And the answer to that is no. America handles that which is why N.Korea will only talk with America. Why argue with the cashier when you can talk to the manager. and thus again it shows the nature of the American presense in Korea.

Your response is simply utter garbage and pro American chin-yank-paninism. When we appreciate the nature of Americas presense in Korea we cannot conclusively say if America will leave at all. They have swimming pools in those American bases and who knows how long the the China threat will last and if there is such a threat does America decide if it will stay in Korea or if Koreans will decide. As it stands even without the China threat, America holds the Korean armed forces in its hands in the event of a war it is the Americans who control Koreas forces LOLLLLLLLL.


A stupid, utter garbage, pathetic reply with no substance but thank you anyway for the response.

The North Korean leader didn't help his own image by ordering his army to fire artillery shots at South Korea. This changed a lot of the minds of the South Koreans who trusted North Korea. Even my co-worker who was an extreme pro-North Korean and anti-US/anti-LMB changed his political views a bit. I remember hearing him claim that the US navy accidentally shot the South Korean ship 천안함 during a war drill. He said that North Korea would never do such a thing. He doesn't think the US did it now. A lot of South Koreans now know that the North Korean leader would bully them more if the US leaves.

Btw, have any of you read the Bloodlands? It's a book on the atrocites that happened before and during the war between Germany and the USSR. It made me realize how much the people in between these superpowers suffered because there was no one to help them. Fortunately, South Korea's army is strong and the US is allied to South Korea.

ok, thanks for the garbage, so what reasons will be left for americans to have military bases here, back to my same question?

There have been various parties and politicians who have run on tickets of getting the Americans out. None of them have come close to gaining popular support.

Because America will not allow it and the CIA cuts them off and gives pro American factions more money to campaign.

That Moon guy that committed suicide won via anti American campaign but when he got into power he became a moderate and a b!tch for American like the rest because he had to work within the system otherwise Korea would suffer economically. That means Korea is owned by America.

Like I mentioned before, Bloodlands made me realize that we Koreans were very lucky compared to what the Jewish, the Ukranians, the Poles, the Gypsies, the Russians, etc. experienced under Stalin and Hitler. Many people are aware of what happened to the Jewish, but what happened to the others in Eastern Europe (especially the Ukrainians and the Poles) is not well-known outside of that region. It could've been worse for us if the UN Forces didn't help us during the Korean War.


Why do you call him the Moon guy?

I meant Roh Moo-hyun.

I dont understand. The UN force is the reason Korea became sandwitched between powers. Before they interfered it was only Koreans unifying Koreans.

You make no sense.