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hapkido1996
QUOTE (devils666 @ Aug 22 2011, 02:52 PM) *
You make it seem like being raped by an American is sooo much better. Yellowcab....that is if you are even Asian....


Rape is rape. We were talking numbers. Japan is millions ahead. Americans never enslaved thousands of comfort women for systematic rape and brutality.

I'm not fond of red herring, thanks anyway.
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (hapkido1996 @ Aug 22 2011, 02:43 AM) *
Rape is rape. We were talking numbers. Japan is millions ahead. Americans never enslaved thousands of comfort women for systematic rape and brutality.

I'm not fond of red herring, thanks anyway.


japan did not rape in the millions. not even the highest estimate go as high as a million. maybe u're referring to casualties? also u have to keep in mind the americans raped thousands of japanese women during and immediately after the war. so they raped as much as the japanese. that's just how it is in war. but what's unique about the US-occupation is that these rapes continued for decades and we may never know the true figures because the vast majority of rapes are unreported and even if they are reported i have a suspicion that the US and japanese government actively silence these complaints and distort the figures to keep the populace happy and ignorant.
hapkido1996
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 22 2011, 05:11 PM) *
japan did not rape in the millions. not even the highest estimate go as high as a million. maybe u're referring to casualties? also u have to keep in mind the americans raped thousands of japanese women during and immediately after the war. so they raped as much as the japanese. that's just how it is in war. but what's unique about the US-occupation is that these rapes continued for decades and we may never know the true figures because the vast majority of rapes are unreported and even if they are reported i have a suspicion that the US and japanese government actively silence these complaints and distort the figures to keep the populace happy and ignorant.


I think the difference in our estimates is due equivocating between the number of rapes and the number of women. The comfort women were held for years and raped by Japanese soldiers over and over again daily for years. And I've never heard of Americans raping thousands of Japanese women after the war. Can you post a link to a credible source? I'm not saying it didn't happen; just that I've never heard about it if it did.

By the way, it may not sound like it from what I've posted in this thread so far, but I have nothing against Japan or Japanese people. I love to visit there and I've always been treated extremely well while I've been there. I hold Japanese people and culture in high regard. I just think the US won the right to be a major presence there. They probably could have annexed Japan, if they'd really wanted to.
doggyji
Just to put an emphasis again, there are actually Japanese civil groups that go out on the street to protest against the aggressive nationalists. There are level-headed scholars who are not afraid to criticize them, too. They are Japanese. If you bash Japan as a whole for something awful you've seen, you are feeding more power to the nationalists while discouraging those who oppose them in Japan. It is very important to be aware of.
RalghaHhallas
devils666 & KraterosHellas = TOOLS

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool

see difinitions 1 & 2
Oldboy117
QUOTE (devils666 @ Aug 22 2011, 02:09 AM) *
After WW2 Americans have have beaten the Japanese for #1 imperialist.

Personally, I've forgiven the Japanese. They are my brothers and I'd much rather have someone of the same race ruling me, than an "alien" race. If White people can forgive Germany, why can't Asians forgive each other?


Idiot. Germany ADMITTED their GUILT, which is why rest of Europe/America FORGAVE Germany. Japanese government on the other hand, being a bunch of arrogant/stubborn pricks, actually WORSHIPS the ones that committed war crimes. Do you think the rest of Europe/America would forgive Germany if they denied the holocaust and worshipped Hitler for bringing "glory" to their country? NO.

devils666
QUOTE (Oldboy117 @ Aug 22 2011, 12:47 PM) *
Idiot. Germany ADMITTED their GUILT, which is why rest of Europe/America FORGAVE Germany. Japanese government on the other hand, being a bunch of arrogant/stubborn pricks, actually WORSHIPS the ones that committed war crimes. Do you think the rest of Europe/America would forgive Germany if they denied the holocaust and worshipped Hitler for bringing "glory" to their country? NO.


Apology means nothing - it's just words. We are talking about RIGHT NOW. Right now, how many Japanese bases in Asia are there (besides japan)? How many American bases are there?

White people can apologize to Native Americans all they want - but they will never get their land, dignity, or PEOPLE back.

White people can apologize to blacks all they want - that will never take back the centuries of slavery, economic theft, and power that they stole from the Blacks.

White people can apologize to Arabs all they want - but they won't stop the wars. They can't take back the innocent lives, infrastructure, or stability lost.

White people can apologize to Asians for colonizing, bombing, spreading Agent orange, raping, etc...but that doesn't mean $hit.

Actions speak louder than words. White people love to apologize while they're raping us all. It still doesn't change the fact that your @$$-hole will never be the same.
Yerroperil
QUOTE (devils666 @ Aug 22 2011, 10:01 PM) *
Apology means nothing - it's just words. We are talking about RIGHT NOW. Right now, how many Japanese bases in Asia are there (besides japan)? How many American bases are there?

White people can apologize to Native Americans all they want - but they will never get their land, dignity, or PEOPLE back.

White people can apologize to blacks all they want - that will never take back the centuries of slavery, economic theft, and power that they stole from the Blacks.

White people can apologize to Arabs all they want - but they won't stop the wars. They can't take back the innocent lives, infrastructure, or stability lost.

White people can apologize to Asians for colonizing, bombing, spreading Agent orange, raping, etc...but that doesn't mean $hit.

Actions speak louder than words. White people love to apologize while they're raping us all. It still doesn't change the fact that your @$$-hole will never be the same.

At least some Americans recognize their evils, public schooling in U.S. doesn't skim over how Whites enslaved and stole land from minorities, the problem is Japanese don't acknowledge their crimes and refuse to believe that they could do things like Unit 731 and Nanjing massacre, some museums in Japan even state that Japan was forced to war by White imperialists and Japanese were "liberating" Asia...
hapkido1996
Uhmm...US solidiers went on a mad raping spree after WWII?

QUOTE
Rape

Main article: Rape during the occupation of Japan

While many Japanese civilians feared that the Allied troops were likely to rape Japanese women, the incidence of rape committed by members of the occupation force was low.[32] Its incidence did increase after the criminalization of prostitution, however.[33] Michael S. Molasky reports that while rape and other violent crime was widespread in naval ports like Yokosuka and Yokohama during the first few weeks of occupation, according to Japanese police reports, the number of incidents declined shortly after and were not common on mainland Japan throughout the rest of occupation.[34]

According to Toshiyuki Tanaka, 76 cases of rape or rape-murder were reported on Okinawa during the first five years of occupation. However, contemporary research indicates that this number is likely too small as many rapes went unreported.[35]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan#Rape

Even if 76 in Okinawa over 5 years is a low estimate, it's not even in the same league with:

QUOTE
The term "comfort women" was a euphemism used to describe women forced into sexual slavery by the Japanese military during World War II.[1][2]

Estimates vary as to how many women were involved, with numbers ranging from as low as 20,000 from some Japanese scholars[3] to as high as 410,000 from some Chinese scholars,[4] but the exact numbers are still being researched and debated.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

The best thing for everyone involved is to acknowledge the past, acknowledge that everybody involved is guilty of something, and then spending our energies on making a better future instead of bickering over the past.
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (devils666 @ Aug 22 2011, 11:01 PM) *
Apology means nothing - it's just words. We are talking about RIGHT NOW. Right now, how many Japanese bases in Asia are there (besides japan)? How many American bases are there?

White people can apologize to Native Americans all they want - but they will never get their land, dignity, or PEOPLE back.

White people can apologize to blacks all they want - that will never take back the centuries of slavery, economic theft, and power that they stole from the Blacks.

White people can apologize to Arabs all they want - but they won't stop the wars. They can't take back the innocent lives, infrastructure, or stability lost.

White people can apologize to Asians for colonizing, bombing, spreading Agent orange, raping, etc...but that doesn't mean $hit.

Actions speak louder than words. White people love to apologize while they're raping us all. It still doesn't change the fact that your @$$-hole will never be the same.


westerners are excellent orators. but they are woefully lacking in ethics and morality. the concepts exist in their intellectual world of course, but they have yet to materialize in reality.
hapkido1996
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 24 2011, 11:31 AM) *
westerners are excellent orators. but they are woefully lacking in ethics and morality. the concepts exist in their intellectual world of course, but they have yet to materialize in reality.


Want a quick history less on the allegedly superior Asian ethics and morality? I hope so, because there's a lot to be said about it. :coffee:
Southasianguy
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 23 2011, 09:31 PM) *
westerners are excellent orators. but they are woefully lacking in ethics and morality. the concepts exist in their intellectual world of course, but they have yet to materialize in reality.


Very true, I mean to till this day the US is framing the middle east for their wars to rob off their oil and gold reserves! If you look at all the wars these pink idiots have done, it far outclasses the japanese.
Yerroperil
QUOTE (Southasianguy @ Aug 29 2011, 12:25 AM) *
Very true, I mean to till this day the US is framing the middle east for their wars to rob off their oil and gold reserves! If you look at all the wars these pink idiots have done, it far outclasses the japanese.

False,Japanese did far worse,at least U.S. troops were civil enough not to massacre a whole town(Nanjing massacre),install comfort women(given some troops did rape civilians) or tested biological pathogens on civilians(Unit 731)...
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (Yerroperil @ Aug 29 2011, 12:34 AM) *
False,Japanese did far worse,at least U.S. troops were civil enough not to massacre a whole town(Nanjing massacre),install comfort women(given some troops did rape civilians) or tested biological pathogens on civilians(Unit 731)...


umm...are u forgetting hiroshima and nagasaki??? those weren't just "towns" they were entire metropolises

as for Unit 731, the US granted FULL IMMUNITY to the guilty perpetuators IN EXCHANGE for the medical data. they also USED this stuff during korean war and even proposed nuking china.

u have NO IDEA of the magnitue of the evil america is capable of.
Yerroperil
Nuking was necessary(otherwise it would be that the U.S. conducting a land invasion with civilians going kamikaze or killing themselves because they believe Americans are going to rape them,also if that did happen imagine what the IJA troops would do the populace on foreign lands),that was more than what the Japanese deserved as deaths,at least you get vaporized quick instead of being raped and left to die in Nanjing... Yes,I agree letting Shiro Ishii off the hook was detestable but that does not even come close to what Shiro Isshi actually did to innocents... Lol I criticize U.S.,however Japan was the greater evil during WW2...
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (Yerroperil @ Aug 29 2011, 03:32 AM) *
Nuking was necessary(otherwise it would be that the U.S. conducting a land invasion with civilians going kamikaze or killing themselves because they believe Americans are going to rape them,also if that did happen imagine what the IJA troops would do the populace on foreign lands),that was more than what the Japanese deserved as deaths,at least you get vaporized quick instead of being raped and left to die in Nanjing... Yes,I agree letting Shiro Ishii off the hook was detestable but that does not even come close to what Shiro Isshi actually did to innocents... Lol I criticize U.S.,however Japan was the greater evil during WW2...


necessary? are u actually trying to justify what the americans did to japan? no it wasn't necessary. america could have just dropped the bomb on the sea near enough so they can see what they had and they would have given up all the same.


hapkido1996
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 29 2011, 07:23 PM) *
necessary? are u actually trying to justify what the americans did to japan? no it wasn't necessary. america could have just dropped the bomb on the sea near enough so they can see what they had and they would have given up all the same.


Horse$hit. There was nearly a military coup d'etat when capitulation was decided upon after BOTH bombs were dropped. Study history. Read a book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8

Blackdude
They won't leave until a rival superpower can pressure them from the region. China is the best bet, ironically.
devils666
QUOTE (Blackdude @ Aug 29 2011, 10:14 AM) *
They won't leave until a rival superpower can pressure them from the region. China is the best bet, ironically.


A rival superpower will only make them more paranoid and bloodthirsty. They will only INCREASE military presence until China collapses.
Blackdude
QUOTE (devils666 @ Aug 29 2011, 12:50 PM) *
A rival superpower will only make them more paranoid and bloodthirsty. They will only INCREASE military presence until China collapses.


Conflict between China and U.S. is inevitable, I predict another cold war.
devils666
QUOTE (Blackdude @ Aug 29 2011, 12:59 PM) *
Conflict between China and U.S. is inevitable, I predict another cold war.


The only one who wants a cold war are the elites in America. But it's smart for China to build up their military because then it will make the US build up theirs and eventually be bankrupt.

It's the white man's "god complex" and ego that will lead to his demise.
Yerroperil
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 29 2011, 05:23 AM) *
necessary? are u actually trying to justify what the americans did to japan? no it wasn't necessary. america could have just dropped the bomb on the sea near enough so they can see what they had and they would have given up all the same.

Prove to me that Japan was going to give up just because America said so,they were going to fight to the last man and if they got captured families were going to kill themselves. Why was it necessary for Japan to invade Asia and commit atrocities but now try to whitewash them as liberating Asia?
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (Yerroperil @ Aug 29 2011, 06:11 PM) *
Prove to me that Japan was going to give up just because America said so,they were going to fight to the last man and if they got captured families were going to kill themselves. Why was it necessary for Japan to invade Asia and commit atrocities but now try to whitewash them as liberating Asia?


i can't prove to u anything. but i still think the bombs weren't necessary to win the war. america was just trying to find a shortcut and in doing so they turned against civilians. that just shows how degraded and evil they are. they have no sense of dignity or decency. they couldn't handle japanese soliders so they turned on unarmed civilians.
hapkido1996
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 30 2011, 11:50 AM) *
i can't prove to u anything. but i still think the bombs weren't necessary to win the war. america was just trying to find a shortcut and in doing so they turned against civilians. that just shows how degraded and evil they are. they have no sense of dignity or decency. they couldn't handle japanese soliders so they turned on unarmed civilians.


Nanjing. Korea. Burma. The morally superior Japanese were enslaving, raping, doing horrendous live medical experiements, and killing in a dozen different countries. If the Japanese had respected civilian life, maybe the US would've been a little slower to drop the bombs.

You don't have a moral leg to stand on, dude. Read a book. A history book, preferably.
chiuchimu
QUOTE (hapkido1996 @ Aug 29 2011, 11:49 PM) *
Nanjing. Korea. Burma. The morally superior Japanese were enslaving, raping, doing horrendous live medical experiements, and killing in a dozen different countries. If the Japanese had respected civilian life, maybe the US would've been a little slower to drop the bombs.

You don't have a moral leg to stand on, dude. Read a book. A history book, preferably.



So what?

That was world War 2. There is enough of Historic Atrocities to go around.



Why is a white kid wasting his time living in WW2 for? Get a life.





Yerroperil
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 29 2011, 09:50 PM) *
i can't prove to u anything. but i still think the bombs weren't necessary to win the war. america was just trying to find a shortcut and in doing so they turned against civilians. that just shows how degraded and evil they are. they have no sense of dignity or decency. they couldn't handle japanese soliders so they turned on unarmed civilians.

No,back then Nationalism was so strong that the Japanese thought if the American came they would get raped and massacred hence there were suicides in Okinawa,do you really think fighting to the death vs 2 cities destroyed,however an evil agenda to this is that U.S. wanted to show the Soviets how strong they were.The Kamikazes died for Japan,imagine that except all civilians did it...
Yerroperil
QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Aug 29 2011, 11:31 PM) *
So what?

That was world War 2. There is enough of Historic Atrocities to go around.



Why is a white kid wasting his time living in WW2 for? Get a life.

But,Japan refuses to believe they did sh!t,instead of having nationalist vans saying how Commies and China are evil,Japan should tear down the Yasukuni shrine and repatriate those that were harmed by Japanese experiments...
hapkido1996
QUOTE (chiuchimu @ Aug 30 2011, 01:31 PM) *
So what?

That was world War 2. There is enough of Historic Atrocities to go around.



Why is a white kid wasting his time living in WW2 for? Get a life.


I'm not even a history fan or a WWII buff, but I know enough to show the fallacies in KraterosHellas's hate-fueled, undereducated rhetoric.

Yes, there are plenty of atrocities to go around; that's my point. KraterosHellas is trying to make Japan out to be the innocent victim of US imperialistic, racist aggression, when anyone with a basic education can see that atrocities, wartime or otherwise, have no connection to race.

My comments were only intended to highlight his fallacies, not blame or insult Japan or Japanese people. If someone were insulting Japan in the way KraterosHellas is insulting the US, I'd be bringing up American atrocities.

Racism is stupid and people who spread it are, also.
snapi
U.S. Atomic tests on Bikini Atoll muhahahaha.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fb2...Ep65j3I.twitter

ha, these warfreak world police a.k.a. United States of America seem to be not contented with Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
snapi
These Americans = heroes mentality should stop.

Wikileaks will put them in their place.
Captain Corea
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 22 2011, 11:45 AM) *
what a load of bull crap. seriously the US did more harm to japan than japan did to asia during ww2. and americans certainly RAPED MORE women than the japanese did because americans raped in japan for well over 6 decades whereas the japanese did it only during the war.



Says the Iranian that has no vested interest in Asia.

Perhaps if you actually lived in Asia you'd know how many here feel about Imperial Japan.
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (Captain Corea @ Aug 30 2011, 10:50 PM) *
Says the Iranian that has no vested interest in Asia.

Perhaps if you actually lived in Asia you'd know how many here feel about Imperial Japan.


i have met MANY asians, chinese, japanese, korean, vietnamese, and it struck me how similar they all are. i was appalled by it because i saw so much hatred between these people online...then i realized that maybe they don't hate each other at all...maybe they are just being manipulated by the west..

i am supremely confident that the young generations in asia are ready to forgive the past and move on toward closer ties with japan and with each other. but in order for that to happen there is one obstacle...can u guess what it is? i'm sure u'd know by now
hapkido1996
Yeah, it would've been better if nobody had put a stop to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

QUOTE
Nanking Massacre

...

Japanese war crimes


Contest to kill 100 people using a sword

...

The Nanking Massacre or Nanjing Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, was a mass murder and war rape that occurred during the six-week period following the Japanese capture of the city of Nanjing (Nanking), the former capital of the Republic of China, on December 13, 1937 during the Second Sino-Japanese War. During this period hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians and disarmed soldiers were murdered and 20,000–80,000 women were raped[1] by soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army.[2][3][4]

The massacre remains a contentious political issue, as various aspects of it have been disputed by some historical revisionists and Japanese nationalists,[3] who have claimed that the massacre has been either exaggerated or wholly fabricated for propaganda purposes. As a result of the nationalist efforts to deny or rationalize the war crimes, the controversy surrounding the massacre remains a stumbling block in Sino-Japanese relations, as well as Japanese relations with other Asia-Pacific nations such as South Korea and the Philippines.

An accurate estimation of the death toll in the massacre has not been achieved because most of the Japanese military records on the killings were deliberately destroyed or kept secret shortly after the surrender of Japan in 1945. The International Military Tribunal of the Far East estimates more than 200,000 casualties in the incident;[5] China's official estimate is about 300,000 casualties, based on the evaluation of the Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal. Estimates from Japanese historians vary widely, in the vicinity of 40,000–200,000. Some historical revisionists even deny that a widespread, systematic massacre occurred at all, claiming that any deaths were either justified militarily, accidental or isolated incidents of unauthorized atrocities. These negationists claim that the characterization of the incident as a large-scale, systematic massacre was fabricated for the purpose of political propaganda.[6][7]

Although the Japanese government has admitted the acts of killing of a large number of noncombatants, looting and other violence committed by the Imperial Japanese Army after the fall of Nanking,[8][9] some Japanese officials have argued that the death toll was military in nature and that no such crimes ever occurred. Denial of the massacre (and a divergent array of revisionist accounts of the killings) has become a staple of Japanese nationalism.[10] In Japan, public opinion of the massacres varies, and few deny the occurrence of the massacre outright.[10] Nonetheless, recurring attempts by negationists to promote a revisionist history of the incident have created controversy that periodically reverberates in the international media, particularly in China, South Korea, and other East Asian nations.[11]



Pick any war and you'll find war crimes and atrocities. American, Japanese, Russian, Korean, Bolivian, Australian...It has nothing to do with race or nationality. Read a fu-king book, people.
Captain Corea
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Aug 31 2011, 12:02 PM) *
i have met MANY asians, chinese, japanese, korean, vietnamese, and it struck me how similar they all are. i was appalled by it because i saw so much hatred between these people online...then i realized that maybe they don't hate each other at all...maybe they are just being manipulated by the west..

i am supremely confident that the young generations in asia are ready to forgive the past and move on toward closer ties with japan and with each other. but in order for that to happen there is one obstacle...can u guess what it is? i'm sure u'd know by now



Did you travel through Asia? Because you know, "knowing" people online is not actually real.

Take a trip through Asia sometime... better yet, live here for a while. After some time, you might actually understand what people are feeling.
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (Captain Corea @ Sep 2 2011, 02:24 AM) *
Did you travel through Asia? Because you know, "knowing" people online is not actually real.

Take a trip through Asia sometime... better yet, live here for a while. After some time, you might actually understand what people are feeling.


i HAVE been to east asia, for ur information. i've stayed in beijing and seoul and observed lot of things there, met lot of people and gained sufficient primary sources. i have also met asians in america. so please wake up from ur delusions that i'm misinformed or making stuff off the top of my head. constantly asking "do u have vested interests" "do u live here" do u have any relations" etc. this $hit gets pretty annoying. and oh yea i don't need to prove that i have vested interest in asia by living there or whatever, cuz that WON'T alter the effectiveness and truthfulness of my arguments. the very fact that u constantly bring this up weakens ur own credibility.
Vendetta
QUOTE (doggyji @ Aug 21 2011, 11:23 AM) *
Don't forget Japanese civilians were also victims of Imperial Japan's military regime. Don't take the antagonistic versus Japan angle. That's exactly what the Japanese right-wings want. Be specific when you want to criticize something about a nation of millions of people. It's not so much that WW2 is still directly affecting us. The real concern is about the current attitudes that will project into the future. Western Europe almost got this down but East Asia still needs a lot of work.


I agree with the above; a lot of people forget that there are Japanese civilians who are actively against what the Imperial Japanese military do. Japanese people are not to be confused with the Japanese military. There are liberals here in the US who are against a lot of what the government and military do but we can't just bunch Americans all into one group either. Just because Japan as a whole doesn't apologize, there are thousands of Japanese people who are aware of the war crimes that have been committed and are apologetic and repenting. And the museums and schools that teach students warped history isn't very uncommon in the world. In the US, the history books of the South are vastly different from the ones in the North.

And for those who are feel like asking, yes, I've been to Asia...Korea and Japan.
hapkido1996
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Sep 2 2011, 05:32 PM) *
...and oh yea i don't need to prove that i have vested interest in asia by living there or whatever, cuz that WON'T alter the effectiveness and truthfulness of my arguments.


The longer you live in a place, the more experience you have and the greater your database of experience upon which to draw conclusions. Passing through for a few days just gives you a narrow cross-section that is both limited and distorted. I've been living in Korea since 1996. Your lack of experience with real Korea and Koreans is obvious to me. If I wanted to know what Mozambique was really like, I'd ask the person who had lived there the longest. That's what people with common sense would do. *cough*

QUOTE
the very fact that u constantly bring this up weakens ur own credibility.


To the contrary. You embarrass yourself my making such an illogical statement in the first place, not to mention your spelling, grammar and punctuation errors.
KraterosHellas
QUOTE (hapkido1996 @ Sep 5 2011, 05:09 AM) *
The longer you live in a place, the more experience you have and the greater your database of experience upon which to draw conclusions. Passing through for a few days just gives you a narrow cross-section that is both limited and distorted. I've been living in Korea since 1996. Your lack of experience with real Korea and Koreans is obvious to me. If I wanted to know what Mozambique was really like, I'd ask the person who had lived there the longest. That's what people with common sense would do. *cough*



To the contrary. You embarrass yourself my making such an illogical statement in the first place, not to mention your spelling, grammar and punctuation errors.


it doesn't matter how long u live there, what matters is the perspicaciousness and soundness of ur observation and conclusions from afar. u urself is limited to the scope of what's right in front of u. u are not aware of what goes on at night in the itaewon district, or near US military camps, or some decrepit clubs...these things are shielded from ur eyes. for most koreans, these things are out of sight and out of mind. i understand this because i know that east asian culture has a habit for covering up controvertial issues. but for the rest of the world, for acute observers and analysts such as myself, nothing escapes the roving mind, the piercing logic...
hapkido1996
QUOTE (KraterosHellas @ Sep 6 2011, 08:11 PM) *
it doesn't matter how long u live there, what matters is the perspicaciousness and soundness of ur observation and conclusions from afar. u urself is limited to the scope of what's right in front of u. u are not aware of what goes on at night in the itaewon district, or near US military camps, or some decrepit clubs...these things are shielded from ur eyes. for most koreans, these things are out of sight and out of mind. i understand this because i know that east asian culture has a habit for covering up controvertial issues. but for the rest of the world, for acute observers and analysts such as myself, nothing escapes the roving mind, the piercing logic...


You seem quite sure of this, considering that you know absolutely nothing of where I've been, what I've done and what I've seen in the past 15 years. Unlike many of the expats over here, I have not made a protective Western bubble around myself. If you were such an "acute observer and analyst," you would know better to base dogmatic assertions without the first shred of evidence to support it. You pased through Korea, made some sweeping generalizations based on little more than your own confidence in your genius. Yay. You're doing the same thing that the expats who live in their little Western bubbles do, and then belittling them for it. Pot...meet kettle. *yawn*

I repeat: I'd rather get my information from someone who's been living in a country for 15 years than from some who visited briefly. That's not to say that everything the old-timer says is irrefutable, but someone who just passed through could hardly have a comparable data base upon which to draw reliable conclusions. This is not a difficult concept. It is the foundation of the scientific method. The broadest possible base of empirical data and necessary inference based on that data are necessary for credible knowledge claims. Not fleeting glimpses and conjecture based on bias, tenuous extrapolation and imagination.
MorbidlyObese1
Why can't we all just get along? o(^^)o <-----that's my hug face :-)
datukillscrap
QUOTE (hapkido1996 @ Sep 6 2011, 11:09 PM) *
You seem quite sure of this, considering that you know absolutely nothing of where I've been, what I've done and what I've seen in the past 15 years. Unlike many of the expats over here, I have not made a protective Western bubble around myself. If you were such an "acute observer and analyst," you would know better to base dogmatic assertions without the first shred of evidence to support it. You pased through Korea, made some sweeping generalizations based on little more than your own confidence in your genius. Yay. You're doing the same thing that the expats who live in their little Western bubbles do, and then belittling them for it. Pot...meet kettle. *yawn*

I repeat: I'd rather get my information from someone who's been living in a country for 15 years than from some who visited briefly. That's not to say that everything the old-timer says is irrefutable, but someone who just passed through could hardly have a comparable data base upon which to draw reliable conclusions. This is not a difficult concept. It is the foundation of the scientific method. The broadest possible base of empirical data and necessary inference based on that data are necessary for credible knowledge claims. Not fleeting glimpses and conjecture based on bias, tenuous extrapolation and imagination.


i agree. one may visit but that visit would not be sufficient to learn about the culture. krateos is western, that means his culture is predisposed towards confrontational and face to face interactions. westerners are easy to observe because they easily show emotion and speak their mind.

one thing krateros has not learned is that what asians say or do is different from what they think or feel. asians (at least my culture) do not like to be confrontational since we value harmony and consensus and not outright competition. in pilipino we call this "pakikisama" that means that before you speak you test the waters first to see if you might be giving offense to someone or if you might be stepping on another persons honor.. we also believe in giving deference to our elders. so if you're probably old - no one would disagree with you in your face.

considering that filipinos are probably the most westernized of all asians .. the thought that we still adhere to pakikisama proves that, that cultural aspect of asians is very strong.


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