Mongolics: Khalkha, Oirads etc



Tungids: Manchu etc



Turkics: Kyrgyz, Kazakh, Yakut etc.




From Xiongnu and Huns to Mughals and Early Ottomans and countless others with love.
- the only asian looking people who conquered Middle East, Eastern and Central Europe, Northern Africa, South Asia etc.

Let's discuss everything concerning our culture, history and similarities... All guests are welcome.

I am a Taiwanese guy but I have a lot of respect for the Altaic nomads. They are the Asiatics who conquered the most land. I see them as a role model for Asian men worldwide. However, a lot of the Altaic nomads mixed with non-Asiatic races. Thus, countries like Turkey, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, etc. are full of non-Asiatics who speak Altaic languages.

AsiaticGlory,

Thank you, Glory! I also have tremendous respect for my Southern Neighbor! No need to list huge scale contributions made by China, cause everybody uses them in one way or another.
The current state of True Altaic people is quite miserable, I have to admit. But let's hope for the better! Maybe things will play out in our favor?



Well, yeah... It's like a white/black person with a 1 - 9% Chinese admixture claiming that he's fully Chinese, while saying that Mainland Chinese are mixed with Mongolians, thus the Mongoloid looks... That's what "they" say about Turks, while teaching young Anatolians about Europeoid origin of Steppe Riders from Central Asia... ridiculous, isn't it? Conquest and Colonization is the answer...

I have noticed that many Turkish people who posts their comments in youtube are obsessed by panturkism/panaltaism nowadays. Their passsion surprises me a lot. It looks like they are ready for expansion.

Turkey views itself as the only successor of all Turkic empires, which is obviously a huge pile of donkey poop assumption. One thing I've noticed is that real Turks from Central Asia are not as aggressive about false propaganda as those wannabes. We all know the Truth, stop wasting your time rewriting the history!

yes, the real turks are not aggressive about panturkism although being a turk is very important for our mentality. I think that in a whole two things are the most important for CA people: first, being a turk, second being a muslim (for religious people) although nowadays some people try to restore our superethnic memory of Tengry (which means Sky). At the same time, being not religious at all is quite ok with people of nomadic ancestry.
I think that the real turkic people are not aggressive by nature. They are very tolerant to other cultures and religions. That can be proven by the fact of their assimilation with many peoples.

Central Asia did become independent after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Russian Federation of today may not last long so the Altaic nomads of Siberia might become independent as well.

What is your view on Inner Mongolia and East Turkestan?
Personally, I try to avoid intra-Asian conflicts.



There are Afrocentrics who claim China was founded by Negroids. They say that the "Chinese blacks" became Mongoloid when they mixed with northerners from Mongolia. Afrocentrics believe black Africans are responsible for all of human civilization.
Then there are Nordicists who claim China was built by the Tocharians and that the Ainu were "whites" who built Japan.

In addition, a lot of Hungarians and some other Europeans are rewriting history to claim Attila the Hun was a "white man."

I think it will be up to Kazakhstan to teach the world real Turkic history.

Altaic world fought on many frontiers, but China's always been a special destination. Those truly historic lands such as Siberia, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia now belong to former Communists. In the modern world, it's not possible for 100 Horsemen to fight against thousands of organized Hans as it was some 1000 years ago. Military tactics have changed, the world has changed dramatically. Disintegrated nomads will never succeed, until they unite and create a system...I mean a real government with a strong Ideology. We will continue losing our lands - that's my grim prediction.



Yeah, a pile of BS. If you look at East Asia, South Eastern Asia, and even some parts of Northern Asia - China is the main cultural dictator.


No one Turkic country can teach the world about Turks, until it rids itself from corruption, mankurtism, and dictatorship. Kazakhstan has a long way to go. But lets hope for the better.

There should be a Sons of Siberia sitcom , where altaic biker gangs invade europe. That would actually be pretty bad @$$.

mongols and turks are the pride of asia. they kicked so much @$$ in the west

lol but now even 100% asian looking decendants of turk-mongols are the result of mix with those people in the west. As for me I do realize that Sciphians/Saks are our ancestors too and we should show them respect. They were also the great people who captured big territories from CA till Nothern India long time before turks.

Some Turkic people from rural areas of Central Asia and Siberia:

Yakuts:


Kazakh:


Kyrgyz


Nogais:

hope China and Mongolia will have better relationship.

Mongolia was too busy being Sovietbros and the Republic of China was too busy claiming Mongolia as its territory. Meanwhile, Chinese from the PRC keep flooding in like Mexicans. However, I'd like to see improvement as well, which China is encouraging with the power of foreign investment.

In the past altaic people were like heavy shower which lasts no more than half an hour... Worriors by nature they fecundated so many cultures and spread their genes in so different places but their direct decendants do not have big and powerful states nowadays. In comparence with them what is the strenth of chinese civilization? What do you think?

Mongolia is Mongolia, China is China, history is past, future is yet to be written, China is changing , slowly, things are messy at the moment.


no need to be mad at those poor workers who work like dogs to feed their families, change the policy instead.


In most of the cases, Mongolian worriors just looted and plundered other than spreading culture and assimilating, this is probably one of the biggest reasons for Mongol empire didn't last long,
as an old Chinese phrase says " it's easy to conquer a land, it's difficult to keep it", you will need advanced and superior culture in various of aspects such as musics, technologies, beautiful costumes, philosophies etc to influence the people whom you have conquered, which the Mongolians back then lacked.

the funder of the Yuan dynasty, Kublai, did a great job, he's a respectable conqueror,
however, his descendent was just pointless, corrupted in enjoyment, treated civilians like slaves,
they just didn't know how to run a country and prosper existing culture they adopted from local people, instead, they wasted the opportunity that could make the Yuan dynasty one of the most powerful country both militarily and culturally.
in my opinion, they were just warriors after all, not creators/changers

Each group had their strengths and weaknesses.

East Asians had the technology, manpower, and industry to conquer but lacked the strength and warrior-hood to do so. Altaic nomads had the opposite.

Unfortunately for us Asians, white people had a balance of both traits so they were the ones who dominated the world. We see white people on all four corners of the planet and we see their culture everywhere. The fact we speak English instead of Chinese or Mongolian is just more evidence of the white man's dominance. Compared to the influence wielded by the white man's Christianity, the Asian religions of Tengrism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Daoism, and Shintoism look like obscure cults.

thank you for sharing, ElapsePride
I would say they were creators and big changers only by the fact of their co-existence and assimilation with the settled worlds. May be it was even their destiny to stir too stable societies. Usually after they come to any region the "new age" culture starts to rise. IMHO

thank you, AsiaticGlory
everything is changing like clouds in the sky. The westerners were not advanced even one thousand years ago. Now their population is decreasing, the production centers are shifted to Asia etc. Asian countries have the highest IQ level in the world. I suspect the majority of people on the earth are asians.
I do not want to offence anybody but I see any religion including Christianity as a set of beautiful tales and instructions how to spend lifetime for common people. I used to enjoy some books on Daosism and Sufism which extend awareness. They are ezoteric rather than exoteric.
Asian race is the youngest one, from what I have read I cought the idea of leading role of asian race in human evolution in the future.
Of course, I can be mistaken (who knows the future?). I hope that my guess was not created by any inferiority complex if they exist (I hope they don't).

you are very wise.
what I meant by "they" is the decedent of Kublai.
Kublai, who was not only a great conqueror, but also a great leader, he's certainly a creator as well.
I'm not an expert but from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Dynasty
you can see that Kublai was very open-minded and creative. but his decedent wasted all his effort devoted in building a real long lasting and great empire

thank you)

that refers to the other altaic empires too: Golden Horde, Timurids. The founders were great but then the empire history became a story of relatives fighting for the power among themselves.
In the middle ages some arab wrote that the turks (turkic people) becomes outstanding among the other peoples, but they are not notable between themselves. I guess that is because nobody wants to be subordinate. May be the excess of martial spirit and leadership energy prevented developing of altaic states.

Whoever the author of that observation is - he pretty much summed up the ugliest characteristic of all Altaics. Tribalism is the cancer of nomadic people, even nowadays tribalism, envy and corruption reign over Central Asia. In my language, there is a phenomenon called "Koralbastik", which basically describes the inability of a person to accept the success of their fellow comrades, neighbors, relatives etc.

Yes, our society is divided by clans (juzes). Each clan (juz) consists of several tribes. And people used to support their own relatives first. I don't know is that good or bad.

Some time ago I used to think that our people are very corrupted but then I started to work with a French drilling company. The top manager was a Frenchman, the middle management was Romanian, the other employees and workers were Kazakh. In some time it was found out that the whole company was corrupted. The top manager used the recruiting company supplying unrequired manpower at the very high price. The middle management chose the certain suppliers which were selling their services at the very high price. Some other employee also had out of contract benefits. Now I think that corruption is something which does not depend on nationality and race. Each society tries to get rid off that but not each one is successful.

About envy I don't know. Instead I would agree that the rivalry exist. But it's also very human trait of character not ethnic or racial. IMHO

There is a recent trend about Koreans and Japanese being included into Altai - nomadic group. What do you guys think about it?
In my opinion, linguistically speaking there might be some connection. However, Korea and Japan are a cultural "product" of China(not in an offensive way), thus sedentary, Confucianism, diet. Culturally and may be physically, I see no connection between these people.

Also these are some of the Middle Eastern/Islamic empires formed by Altaics.

The Golden Horde(Turco - Mongolic 1240–1502)


Mameluk Sultanate(Turco - Arabic 1250–1517)


Khwarazmian dynasty(Turco - Persian 1077–1231)


Ottoman Empire(Turco - Anatolian? 1299–1923)


Mughal Empire (Turco - Mongol 1526–1858)

as for me I am quite interested in their cultures but I don't think that they are close to Altaic nomads. May be Mongolians or Manchu feel some closeness?

interesting analysis. yes white people had balanced traits. i think that's how they succeded, by taking the best from each culture they absorbed or came in contact with. the mix of viking adventurism, greek erudition and roman virtue created a powerful impetus for world dominance and progress.

China didn't "produce" them -_-|||
back then China had dominant and advanced culture in East Asia ranging from instruments, musics, costumes, technologies, literatures, philosophies, religions, arts etc, even the Mongolian and Manchurian rulers adopted them, Korea and Japan were influenced heavily but they are unique in their own ways.

the Tibetans, the Qiangs and the Hmongs are genetically close to the majority of us, but some of them are nomadic and culturally distinctive from us, Does that mean we are less connected genetically? I think not.
Same applies to you and the Koreans or the Japanese, it depends on whether or not both sides care about it and accept each other.

Sorry, I guess my definition of "production" sounded a bit harsh, I didn't mean it that way. However, there is no debate that China played a crucial role in the development of those two nations. As you listed yourself, "musics, costumes, technologies, literatures, philosophies, religions, arts."



If we assume that Altaic linguistic theory is true. Then Turkic(I mean real Turkic - Central Asian and Siberian), Mongolic and Tungusic Languages are practically analogous to Slavic Languages, while Japanese and Korean are analogous to Indo - Aryan(Pashtun, Urdu, Persian). It's very easy to learn Russian if you know Polish, the same way it's easy to learn Mongolian if you know Yakutian. Japanese and Korean are very distant from Altaic languages, only some grammatical similarities are there.

Just to sum up: I still hold my view that Korea and Japan are essentially East Asian - Sinid in culture, history and traditions. But, hey, is it a bad thing? I just think we shouldn't get mixed up. No one wants to see a confused Korean claiming that his ancestors had to do something with the siege of Constantinople or the battle against the Crusaders.

It's a Metaphor, right?

I was correlating altaic languages to indo european = altaic group(turkic, mongolic, tungusic) is to japanese and korean => is more or less the same as slavic group to indo aryan(both groups are in indo - european). russian to persian => as mongolian to japanese.

Manchu song, it sounds mongolian to me, what do you think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtlHaO8VbJc...feature=related

As a native Turkic speaker(Kyrgyz), It does sound Mongolian to me, but at the same time the intonation, some pronunciation sound very familiar. Somehow, it sounds a bit Korean? I don't know...
Check out these;
My favorite Unesco clip, gives a nice intro in English
Kyrgyz Boy telling Manas Epic (Describes the Battle against Chinese and Kalmyks)
An older Manaschi
Here' the unesco clip about Manas Epic with English Translation

How do they sound? Always wondered about that...

Korean sounds like Japanese to me in songs
Manchu sounds somewhere between Mongolian and Mandarin to me, maybe because Mandarin is influenced by manchu, the word Mandarin actually means Manchu official...


is this the way how Altaic people live? Imagine how it is like riding a horse freely in a vast plain, must be awesome, plus, I like the hawks...
as to the sounding of the language, it sounds a bit like Uyghur to me

Manchu song sounds mongolian to me also, but they look a bit differently from mongolians and turks.

I just don't understand what is similar between altaic people and the Koreans and the Japanese. May be the similarity is not obvious for the turk branch only.

they are pretty much a mixture of the old Manchus, the Mongols and the Hans,
look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Banners
The Eight Banners consisted of three ethnic components: the Manchu, the Han, and the Mongols.
so basically, these 3 ethnic groups made Manchu.

they are similar to the Chinese or the Koreans in general. Can you distinguish them among other nothern chinese ethnicities? Do they have some national traits of character? I know nothing about them. Only about the last dinasty. Culturally they are close to China, not to altaic nomads, I guess.
Btw, for me (Kazakh) Uigur language and music sound very different from Kyrgyz language and music.

It does seem that way. As far as Asia goes, it is mainly the Mongoloid majority countries that have the high IQs. We are the majority but our countries' are starting to have fewer children. Africans, on the other hand, have the highest birthrates.



I have heard about that too.

Manchus look no difference from north chinese whatsoever
but Koreans look different in a general sense, mainly because of fashion, skin care and behaviours, they have very good skin, but in comparison of north koreans, due to malnutrition and poverty, their north brothers look dark and tough skinned.
facial features are also different between Chinese and Koreans

do you Altaic people still live in traditional nomadic way like shown in the videos above?

Only in rural places of Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Western Mongolia(where Kazakh and Kyrgyz Turks live), Mongolia, and Northern Siberia.


Those are eagles, Kazakh and Kyrgyz still practice eagle - hunting.



Hmm.. I always thought Kyrgyz is a Siberian sounding language, as we lived around Altai mountains for thousands of years. Uighur always sounded like Turkic with a huge Persian influence(like pronunciation, sounds and etc.)


Central Asia has a big population of Russified Koreans. I had absolutely no problem in differentiating CA turks from Koreans.


How does it sound to you? and btw +1 that music sounds differently

sounds good))

LOL No... I meant in relation to something. like half Indian, but with something etc.. Thank you anyways

BTW here's the video of Kazakh Eagle hunters!

click here

the word "horde" is magical. Whooorrrrde

I would say that the music of all nomadic turks (Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Altayans, etc.) differs from the music of settled turks (Uigurs, Uzbek) a lot. Settled turks music is much more influenced by iranians and arabs while the music of Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Altayans preserved its ancient turkic sound.

thank you for the video, I like it

the original word is "orta" which means "center", "central"

just curious, would any of u consider bulgarian as altaic? i've heard that although they are slavic today they used to be turkic in the distant past and their origins can be traced to central asia.

A lot of Altaic nomads who invaded Europe end up breeding themselves out of existence by mixing with the local people. However, I think some of the culture still exist.

Wow, this is amazing, poor fox tho.
one question, why does the young guy keep making a sound like that while the eagle is hunting down the fox? does the sound play any sort of roles in this?


I have never heard of Siberian language of any kind before, so my ignorance may lead to misjudgment. one thing I noticed is that many Siberians/turks have bluish, greenish eyes, such as the young boy in above video. are they common? do they attribute to the mixture of Caucasoid or natural evolution?

I don't really know... would you consider modern grand grand sons of a Chinese/Korean/or Japanese person who migrated to England in 14th century, and exclusively mixed with white AngloSax, to be Asian in any way? I would consider original Bulgars to be Altaic, though.



The most important thing is the language, I'm still puzzled how less numerous nomads from Altai Mountains traveled to Europe, Middle East and forced them to become linguistically Altaic. But it's a fact nowadays.



I guess it's some kind of a battle-cry? When you're riding a horse, we say "Chu" to let the horse know that it's time to run faster. I guess it works the same way.



I would say both, Caucasoid admixture comes from Scythians or Proto Indo - Europeans. NOT from Russians or Persians. In Kazakhstan/Kyrgyztsan/Western Mongolia, I think 20 - 30% of the population has lighter hair and/or lighter eyes(light - green usually prevails). Some Europeans claim that according to Chinese sources some Altaics had green/blue eyes and lighter hair and therefore they're white. I think it's a pile of BS, green/blue eyes in Turkics is as old as in Europeans. Modern Kyrgyz have 63% R1a genes, but they're Turkic - mongoloid.

Altaics not under Islamic, but with Islamic Ideology. Many notable Islamic conquests were made by Altaics.
Altaics were under Soviet rule for 90 years, the same as Russia and Eastern Europe being under Altaics for 250 - 500 years.
Altaics and Chinese had one of the most amazing battles and politics in the history of the world. With your vassal state mentality, it's very hard for you to comprehend.

I'm quite "large" even by Scandinavian standards, and it's not just me. My parents and grandparents are "large too". So it's not a recent trend. Don't worry about me. And our average Kyrgyz street fights are way beyond Western street fights.
pretty averge fight by Bishkek standards, we usually know what to do

LOL
To Korean people,
You're losing it, Koreans!!! I know this particular member is not the brightest of your sons, and Korean nation has a lot of great people. But these kind of ignorant tendencies make Korea look somewhat less welcoming!