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txoomsuab2
well over the few years i hear all these hate between mien and hmong, y the hate? we r like family we should unite and stop ridiculing each other
JoveejuOoOo
QUOTE (txoomsuab2 @ Aug 16 2011, 05:40 AM) *
well over the few years i hear all these hate between mien and hmong, y the hate? we r like family we should unite and stop ridiculing each other


Edited.
yajthaugluv
Must be these new generation idiots on both sides hating. As far as I know, Hmong and Miens have a harmonious relation with no conflicts. We're basically the same family, except we have different language and customs.
KojTusMeHavnim
QUOTE (yajthaugluv @ Aug 16 2011, 10:00 AM) *
Must be these new generation idiots on both sides hating. As far as I know, Hmong and Miens have a harmonious relation with no conflicts. We're basically the same family, except we have different language and customs.

I agree...

I thought Hmong and Mien get a long very well. I would say that the Hmong-Mien relationship is a lot better than say Hmong-Chinese (Han), Hmong-Lao, Hmong-Thai, etc...
datianboy
i think we get along pretty well.
yajthaugluv
About that... I'm not so sure anymore, especially here in the states. Doesn't seem like we interact much with each other. Especially not here where I live that is. There's like, zero Mien around.
glVoix
The Hmong and Mien in my hometown get along just fine. A few of my gooooood friends are Mien. Aside from that, my other Hmong friends are good friends with Mien too. I really guess it just depends on location.
bioshock
So much hatred threads lately. I think Miens and Hmong get along quite nicely. A distant cousin of mine is married to a Mien man and they have beautiful kids that are able to communicate in three languages, lol. Pretty neat.
datianboy
i think it depends on location too. hmong and mien share lots of similarities. i get along with mien people, but i've seen and even witnessed fights between hmong and mien.

my sister (blood/paternal uncle's daughter) married a mien guy.

mien people are very small (population wise)
My2oxens
QUOTE (datianboy @ Aug 17 2011, 12:22 PM) *
i think it depends on location too. hmong and mien share lots of similarities.

mien people are very small (population wise)


Yes, I think there are ~250K Hmong, but only about 50K Miens in the US.
(Hmong also got to the US a few yrs. earlier than the Miens)

The 1st gen Hmong and Miens love to fish/hunt.
Traditional clothing is similar (Miens' less colorful).

I'm 1.5 gen (born in Siam but grew up in Nor Cal), and I remember when I was a kid, a Hmong family came to our house to ask for my dad's advice on Hmong girl-Mien guy marriage. Before that, I had no idea how close Hmong and Miens were.

I went camping w/ Hmong HS kids, had Hmong math and biology teachers.
So, we're too similar to hate ea. other.
My2oxens
Also, just found out about Gen. VP funeral a few days ago, and I had no idea that there were a lot of Mien representatives, some serving along w/ GVP.

About witnessing Mien-Hmong fights (usually betwn teenagers), when I saw this on youtube, I was quite sad and a bit disappointed w/ both sides bad-mouthing ea. other.

But then I realized that these fights were (hopefully) betwn gang members, in which case, I no longer feel bad.
As long as the non-gangster Miens and Hmong get along, that's good enough (for now).

**I've never been interested in gangs nor learn about them only until recently.
Now, it seems that gangs are pretty much like "franchises" and like how the low-income are attracted to fast foods, the low-income similarly are attracted to the gang franchise.
**Solving the gang problems is futile w/out targeting education and poverty issues.
My2oxens
Well, Hmong people, you guys should be very proud of yourselves given that in only a bit over 30 yrs, you guys really accomplished a lot.

Among the SEA refugee groups (excluding Vietnamese), Hmong are pretty much the most successful. beerchug.gif
yajthaugluv
QUOTE (My2oxens @ Aug 18 2011, 03:10 AM) *
Well, Hmong people, you guys should be very proud of yourselves given that in only a bit over 30 yrs, you guys really accomplished a lot.

Among the SEA refugee groups (excluding Vietnamese), Hmong are pretty much the most successful. beerchug.gif



Those that are proud are really just suckers. They're happy where they are so while the rest of other immigrants better themselves these poor suckers are left behind. Hmong people is ranked the poorest among SEA immigrants. That's nothing to be proud of.

And what you say about the mien and hmong problem, it is between gangsters.
My2oxens
QUOTE (yajthaugluv @ Aug 19 2011, 11:55 AM) *
Hmong people is ranked the poorest among SEA immigrants.


250K Hmong vs. 150K Cambodians vs. 50K Miens (Laotians: unknown due to inclusion of the whole 'Lao Family'), so I personally would not put too much faith in any "ranking" that's out there.

Little off topic, but I do thank (never out loud of course) the Chinese, Indians, Filipinos and then the Japanese, and then the Koreans for taking the brunt of these early Asian discriminations. icon_wink.gif
yajthaugluv
I'm not sure where Mien and Lao stand but the rank was done for Hmong, Viet, Chinese, Korean, Thai, and Filipino. These other groups have better education and hold management positions while the Hmong are just line workers.

Yes, they did take the brunt of prejudice and discrimination.
bioshock
About the stats that Hmong are at the bottom of the economic ladder...that's perfectly understandable, it's been just 30 something years since we came to the US, we have made it quite far but I agree with you, Yajthaugluv, we have a LONG WAY TO GO. Those that are ignorantly proud and like to flaunt our achievements are somewhat mindless but I very happy of our improvements thus far. People need to realize that our grandparents and parents were from the mountains and had very little education when they made it to America as compared to the city dwellers of other ethnicities. Of course this is no excuse for the gangsters, low-lives and others who are able to improve themselves but won't.
serpent
I am not Hmong so my opinion on this issue is completely unbiased and impartial. As an outside observer, Hmong achievements so far have been exemplary. The gang, the violence and the less economically successful thingy are a real bummer, but all other immigrant groups also suffer the same fate. The remarkable thing is that each successive generation of Hmong seem to surpass the previous one. Hmong people in general are on the rise. If this trend continues who knows what the future will bring.

In oriental culture people worship the 3 deities of fortunes (Phước Lộc Thọ). Chinese people are very into this.

There is a Viet saying that goes like this: "Con hơn cha l nh c phc" it means when a father has been surpassed by his child, that family is blessed. I think there is a Hmong equivalent proverb with similar meaning. My take on this, it has been more positive than negative icon_smile.gif .
KojTusMeHavnim
@yajthaugluv
I disagree with you!

The Hmong have come a long way, and like My2oxen said, we should be proud of it. Of course, there are things we shouldn't be proud of like stupid Hmong gangsters... GEEESH!! Our parents sacrificed sweat and blood to come to this country so we can survive and live peacefully life and you freaking retarded shoot each other? Send these kids to Iraq and put them on the front line if they want to die so much. ANYWAY!

These are my reasons why I can say we should admire the Hmong
- The Hmong have only been in the US for about 30, 20 years, or 10 years only. I think we have come to the US a little later than most SEA, I could be wrong.. The last wave of Hmong was in the early 2000.

- In a 30, 20, or 10 year span, the Hmong have accomplished many things. We have many small and big businesses, clinics, TV shows (although they're kind of dorky sometimes), doctors, dentists, lawyers, actors, school principals, school board leaders, news journalists, and even a senator (are there any other SEA senators?). Now, why aren't we proud of that? I was really disappointed when I opened this thread about successful Hmong women and many of you put them down. What the hell? I guess, I can see why we, Hmong, don't want to be proud of ourselves because we don't want our own people to achieve anything!

- The Hmong came to the US with nothing and I don't just mean nothing like money or whatever. What I mean is prior to immigrating to the US...
... I think it's safe to say 99% of the Hmong didn't know English, not even French.
... Most didn't know how to read and write in their own language. Everything was learned orally.
... Girls didn't go to school.
... Some boys went to school but usually only for a period of time in their life.
... Basically, they lacked a good education.
... The Hmong only knew the mountain life.
... They had just stepped out of a long war and lost everything even loved ones.

I think when you take a person like that and place him in America, you would expect a slow growth because they're not used to learning (school), reading and writing; an industrialized, technological, fast pasted lifestyle; and psychologically effected by the war.

You can say "Oh, the Chinese, Koreans, and other Asians are so smart and so ahead of us, they're so much better etc..." Go ahead! I'm not going to deny that. I am proud of them because I'm Asian too. But, don't put your own kind down.. Ask yourself these questions
- What kind of place did they come from? (Know that some of those Asians were rich enough to come to America voluntarily while SEA were forced to leave their countries.)
- What generation are they in the US?
- Did their parents have better/proper education?
- Do their parents know how to read and write even in their own language? Why is reading and writing in their own language even relevant to doing well in the US? I learned in my Asian American class that the Hmong had a much difficult time in school because they could only take notes in English, and if their English was poor, they were screwed.

Most Hmong kids had no help from anyone, THEY WERE RACING THE RACE ON THEIR OWN!! When kids come home with a packet of homework, their parents weren't able to help them read or write; their parents couldn't consult with teachers because they couldn't speak English, heck we had to be translators at like age 7; their parents didn't sign them up for extracurricular activities (which has a positive effect on a child's performance in school); their parents knew nothing about school to guide their kids like other kids' parents. I wish I had council at home during my greatest need from high school to college. I really want to start over, now that I know more. My parents couldn't tell me what to do, but for my kids, I will pass down suggestions and tips I know. They would have it much easier than me.

HERE'S A LINK OF MANY HMONG DOCTORS IN JUST 30 YEARS OR LESS FROM FAMILIES WITH NOT EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.
http://www.christianhmongfellowship.org/doctors.html


I think when you take a "primitive" out of the mountains and into the US and he's able to produce some much in just a short time, you should be putting your hands together and stop comparing him to someone who had it better and easier to start off with.
bioshock
QUOTE (KojTusMeHavnim @ Aug 22 2011, 02:37 PM) *
@yajthaugluv
I disagree with you!

The Hmong have come a long way, and like My2oxen said, we should be proud of it. Of course, there are things we shouldn't be proud of like stupid Hmong gangsters... GEEESH!! Our parents sacrificed sweat and blood to come to this country so we can survive and live peacefully life and you freaking retarded shoot each other? Send these kids to Iraq and put them on the front line if they want to die so much. ANYWAY!

These are my reasons why I can say we should admire the Hmong
- The Hmong have only been in the US for about 30, 20 years, or 10 years only. I think we have come to the US a little later than most SEA, I could be wrong.. The last wave of Hmong was in the early 2000.

- In a 30, 20, or 10 year span, the Hmong have accomplished many things. We have many small and big businesses, clinics, TV shows (although they're kind of dorky sometimes), doctors, dentists, lawyers, actors, school principals, school board leaders, news journalists, and even a senator (are there any other SEA senators?). Now, why aren't we proud of that? I was really disappointed when I opened this thread about successful Hmong women and many of you put them down. What the hell? I guess, I can see why we, Hmong, don't want to be proud of ourselves because we don't want our own people to achieve anything!

- The Hmong came to the US with nothing and I don't just mean nothing like money or whatever. What I mean is prior to immigrating to the US...
... I think it's safe to say 99% of the Hmong didn't know English, not even French.
... Most didn't know how to read and write in their own language. Everything was learned orally.
... Girls didn't go to school.
... Some boys went to school but usually only for a period of time in their life.
... Basically, they lacked a good education.
... The Hmong only knew the mountain life.
... They had just stepped out of a long war and lost everything even loved ones.

I think when you take a person like that and place him in America, you would expect a slow growth because they're not used to learning (school), reading and writing; an industrialized, technological, fast pasted lifestyle; and psychologically effected by the war.

You can say "Oh, the Chinese, Koreans, and other Asians are so smart and so ahead of us, they're so much better etc..." Go ahead! I'm not going to deny that. I am proud of them because I'm Asian too. But, don't put your own kind down.. Ask yourself these questions
- What kind of place did they come from? (Know that some of those Asians were rich enough to come to America voluntarily while SEA were forced to leave their countries.)
- What generation are they in the US?
- Did their parents have better/proper education?
- Do their parents know how to read and write even in their own language? Why is reading and writing in their own language even relevant to doing well in the US? I learned in my Asian American class that the Hmong had a much difficult time in school because they could only take notes in English, and if their English was poor, they were screwed.

Most Hmong kids had no help from anyone, THEY WERE RACING THE RACE ON THEIR OWN!! When kids come home with a packet of homework, their parents weren't able to help them read or write; their parents couldn't consult with teachers because they couldn't speak English, heck we had to be translators at like age 7; their parents didn't sign them up for extracurricular activities (which has a positive effect on a child's performance in school); their parents knew nothing about school to guide their kids like other kids' parents. I wish I had council at home during my greatest need from high school to college. I really want to start over, now that I know more. My parents couldn't tell me what to do, but for my kids, I will pass down suggestions and tips I know. They would have it much easier than me.

HERE'S A LINK OF MANY HMONG DOCTORS IN JUST 30 YEARS OR LESS FROM FAMILIES WITH NOT EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.
http://www.christianhmongfellowship.org/doctors.html


I think when you take a "primitive" out of the mountains and into the US and he's able to produce some much in just a short time, you should be putting your hands together and stop comparing him to someone who had it better and easier to start off with.


DAM, GIRL! I AGREE WITH YOU 1000000x %. VERY GOOD POINTS you've made! Hmong people like everyone else will always be our biggest critics. The people who put our own people down the hardest and with the harshest words will always be other Hmong peole who will always say "Why couldn't you do it differently? Why couldn't you do it better? God, I'm so ashamed of being Hmong, etc." CAN NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE!

But definitely, we need to also be proud of what our parents and ourselves and what we have accomplished. And by God, it is A LOT for some supposedly uncultured, illiterate Southeast Asian mountain "tribe" who were always considered the "filth of society". There will always be a few bad people in every community, no doubt about that...that will be in gangs and those that live off the system, but THERE IS NO DOUBT MORE GOOD IN OUR COMMUNITY than bad. Open your eyes, please! Improvements are being made every single day! There will always be infighting, but it's those misfortunes that will continue to unite and better our Hmong community! We have learned and are still learning from our mistakes, NO GROUP OF PEOPLE, heck NO ETHNICITY IS PERFECT.

Serpent, what a wonderful Viet quote you have there...yes, we do have a similar way of teaching our kids along that great quote you gave. Our Hmong parents are always expecting the younger generation to improve on the last. They're becoming like other Asian parents now, expecting doctors and lawyers all the time...and boy, are Hmong girls definitely excelling...WE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE PROUD, but be proud of the correct things and correct achievements and try to always better ourselves....

We just need time, with time and familiarity with living here in the US, Hmong will climb that economic ladder quite far and be as competitive as all those other groups...just watch and see. beerchug.gif
lilasiankid
What is mien? jk embarassedlaugh.gif
JoveejuOoOo
What's is a Ha-mong? embarassedlaugh.gif Joking!


Now don't be so sensitive now yajthaugluv. I was only joking since you take me serious just because I'm a Laotian. LOL!
My2oxens
QUOTE (lilasiankid @ Aug 22 2011, 02:33 PM) *
What is mien? jk embarassedlaugh.gif


Way back in the time of antiquity, in junior high, I was actually very surprised that there was an English word 'mien' which means
"a person's manner, bearing, or appearance, expressing personality or mood."

(I'm still waiting for an opportunity to use said word in said sense).
My2oxens
@ KojTusMeHavnim,

Excellent points. Spot on.

Reminiscing on the days that are no more, I am still perplexed as to how my older siblings survived high school and college.
We arrived here in the summer, then in Fall, they started high school not knowing much English. Still amazing to me.
(I started kindergarden, so nothing special)

JoveejuOoOo
I think we should get along and be more understanding. I think our generation now need to accept each other for the better future of our grand kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42XLw0nronA&NR=1
KojTusMeHavnim
QUOTE (JoveejuOoOo @ Aug 22 2011, 07:43 PM) *
I think we should get along and be more understanding. I think our generation now need to accept each other for the better future of our grand kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42XLw0nronA&NR=1

LOL at video..

And I agree with you.
JoveejuOoOo
QUOTE (KojTusMeHavnim @ Aug 22 2011, 10:38 PM) *
LOL at video..

And I agree with you.

LOL I thought the Video was cute.
yajthaugluv
QUOTE (serpent @ Aug 21 2011, 07:10 PM) *
I am not Hmong so my opinion on this issue is completely unbiased and impartial. As an outside observer, Hmong achievements so far have been exemplary. The gang, the violence and the less economically successful thingy are a real bummer, but all other immigrant groups also suffer the same fate. The remarkable thing is that each successive generation of Hmong seem to surpass the previous one. Hmong people in general are on the rise. If this trend continues who knows what the future will bring.

In oriental culture people worship the 3 deities of fortunes (Phước Lộc Thọ). Chinese people are very into this.

There is a Viet saying that goes like this: "Con hơn cha l nh c phc" it means when a father has been surpassed by his child, that family is blessed. I think there is a Hmong equivalent proverb with similar meaning. My take on this, it has been more positive than negative icon_smile.gif .


As far as deities goes, we're pretty much at a loss but perhaps Hmong people do have an equivalent proverb or meaning.

KojTusMeHavnim,

I agree with the points you've made. But no matter how great the challenges, that's no reason for people not to try even harder. That's just the problem with Hmong people because there's still so much more that people can improve on. And just thinking about Serpents comments about folks and their children and how their children can surpass their parents is being a blessing, it's actually the opposite for US. Hmong people here in the US are still blind, everyone is still doing their own thing blindly and to be where we are today. It's a stroke of luck and hard work from the very first Hmong immigrants... Other Asians like Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, and etc... They aren't like how our parents are with us, they're expected to excel and make their parents proud. Every child was given an enormous burden. But with Hmong people and their kids, too many parents doesn't quite expect much from them and they sometimes don't even make it out of HS or even hold a GED. And the sad thing is, this is coming from 1st generation parents whom has an education. So really in an already slow development it seems to be stalling and getting worst. Because in someways the young are too proud of themselves for the little achievement their parent's generation helped spear headed and pave the way for them. You can see the rise in undergraduates, MA, and Phds. But those are the few and they really don't specialize in areas or are incapable of imparting any useful knowledge to better the Hmong. Even with these PhD or MA, individual, although they have their own businesses and practices, they're too few to be making an impact economically. 3 and going to 4 decades now, I've yet to see Hmong inventors or simply goods made by Hmong that has a wide impact on market. So really, there's really nothing to be proud of. We're still poor and uneducated by far.
My2oxens
@ yajthaugluv above,

I believe KojTusMeHavnim and possibly bioshock can see what the hang-up w/ you is:
you are currently stuck in viewing the world in your adopted, narrow "western perspectives."
(Nothing wrong w/ that given that we all basically grew up in the US).

KojTusMeHavnim already covered a lot, but I'd like to reiterate that SEA =/= EA, as you like to keep comparing the two.

About inventions, consider this: 2.5 billions (Chinese, Indians; the 2 most ancient civ.) vs Hmong of a quarter mil.

By putting things in perspectives, hopefully these defeatist altitudes may cease to exist among 'Lao Family.'
yajthaugluv
Don't care about other civs and you're mistaken about me having a mindset of that narrow western perspectives. It's what you called "old school". To be at the same level as others, I believe you have to work 10 times harder to be at the same level. This is something folks these days don't understand, and this doesn't just apply to Hmong people but Americans in general. I'm sure you're aware that American ingenuity and know how is on the decline due to such reasoning.
My2oxens
[start self amusing]
Having "narrow western perspectives" is a privilege due to US's global status.
American ingenuity is a product of importation.
Increasing numbers of Africans are seeking their wealth in China.
The world is becoming a smaller place.
[end self amusing]

(I know there's no 'Mien Chat', but where are all the members of 'Hmong Chat' ?
This topic should've drawn more members.)
yajthaugluv
That's what everyone here in the US are doing to themselves and just goes to prove that Hmong people are proud idiots. embarassedlaugh.gif


It should have drawn more members but this thread isn't about how far the Hmong/Mien Has Come rather about tensions/violence and or hatred between the two groups. Thus, folks can either offer a yes/no answer and doesn't really allow an opportunity for in depth discussion. Besides that, there aren't that many active members on here anymore.
Vangpao
Think of it this way;

Hmong = Hatfields
Mien = McCoys

Someone killed a pig up in "dem dar hills" long ago and them there was a fight. Someone died over the stupid hog and then the opposing side decided to kill one of the killer's family members in return. Their kids kept fighting out of more vengeance. Now, nobody really knows the true fault and it's just easier to fight than to play "Romeo an Juliet".

Make sense? Good.
Now that the tale is over, Go to bed.
yajthaugluv
embarassedlaugh.gif

Yes, perhaps that's how it all got started.lol
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