I just had to repost this in its own thread.

I'm tired of people (Hmong and non-Hmong) not thinking thoroughly why the Hmong are on the low end of the bar. If we stop to consider some few true facts, then we can understand why. Yes, they may be at the bottom, but I wouldn't be so quick to put them down until after reading this because it's not like they choose to be down there.

------------


These are my reasons why I can say we should admire the Hmong
- The Hmong have only been in the US for about 30, 20 years, or 10 years only. I think we have come to the US a little later than most SEA, I could be wrong.. The last wave of Hmong was in the early 2000.

- In a 30, 20, or 10 year span, the Hmong have accomplished many things. We have many small and big businesses, clinics, TV shows (although they're kind of dorky sometimes), doctors, dentists, lawyers, actors, school principals, school board leaders, news journalists, and even a senator (are there any other SEA senators?). Now, why aren't we proud of that? I was really disappointed when I opened this thread about successful Hmong women and many of you put them down. What the hell? I guess, I can see why we, Hmong, don't want to be proud of ourselves because we don't want our own people to achieve anything!

- The Hmong came to the US with nothing and I don't just mean nothing like money or whatever. What I mean is prior to immigrating to the US...
... I think it's safe to say 99% of the Hmong didn't know English, not even French.
... Most didn't know how to read and write in their own language. Everything was learned orally.
... Girls didn't go to school.
... Some boys went to school but usually only for a period of time in their life.
... Basically, they lacked a good education.
... The Hmong only knew the mountain life.
... They had just stepped out of a long war and lost everything even loved ones.

I think when you take a person like that and place him in America, you would expect a slow growth because they're not used to learning (school), reading and writing; an industrialized, technological, fast pasted lifestyle; and psychologically effected by the war.

You can say "Oh, the Chinese, Koreans, and other Asians are so smart and so ahead of us, they're so much better etc..." Go ahead! I'm not going to deny that. I am proud of them because I'm Asian too. But, don't put your own kind down.. Ask yourself these questions
- What kind of place did they come from? (Know that some of those Asians were rich enough to come to America voluntarily while SEA were forced to leave their countries.)
- What generation are they in the US?
- Did their parents have better/proper education?
- Do their parents know how to read and write even in their own language? Why is reading and writing in their own language even relevant to doing well in the US? I learned in my Asian American class that the Hmong had a much difficult time in school because they could only take notes in English, and if their English was poor, they were screwed.

Most Hmong kids had no help from anyone, THEY WERE RACING THE RACE ON THEIR OWN!! When kids come home with a packet of homework, their parents weren't able to help them read or write; their parents couldn't consult with teachers because they couldn't speak English, heck we had to be translators at like age 7; their parents didn't sign them up for extracurricular activities (which has a positive effect on a child's performance in school); their parents knew nothing about school to guide their kids like other kids' parents. I wish I had council at home during my greatest need from high school to college. I really want to start over, now that I know more. My parents couldn't tell me what to do, but for my kids, I will pass down suggestions and tips I know. They would have it much easier than me.

HERE'S A LINK OF MANY HMONG DOCTORS IN JUST 30 YEARS OR LESS FROM FAMILIES WITH NOT EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.
http://www.christianhmongfellowship.org/doctors.html


I think when you take a "primitive" out of the mountains and into the US and he's able to produce some much in just a short time, you should be putting your hands together and stop comparing him to someone who had it better and easier to start off with.

Other Asians had it easier because they already have the foundations (economically, politically and socially) here in the United States when they arrived.

Wow, first time I've heard you agree with Havnim, hehe.

Anyways, Havnim, you are absolutely correct...most people are too quick to judge, they haven't looked at our history nor our situations and how we've come to be. Like I said before...we should be very proud of what we have accomplished, Hmong people were initially "primitive" from the mountains and forced to become refugees and shipped off to live in some of the most competitive and industrialized nations on earth and expected to adjust and compete with other groups that have come here not as refugees but for economic opportunities, most of them were probably the best of the best (scholars, entrepreneur, researchers, etc.) from their native countries too not like the Hmong, who most were illiterate and dirt poor. Comparing such drastically different groups is extremely bias.

I'm not saying other SE Asians groups didn't have it bad too, but Hmong (and Mien and those other "primitive" groups that lived in isolated mountainous areas) had it far worse. Again, this is not saying this is an excuse for those misfits of the Hmong community that leech off others and harm our own community and give us a bad name, but damn people, it's OKAY TO PROUD! Nothing wrong with that just be courteous, modest, and respectful and don't flaunt it too much.

Yes, we're behind because we didn't have a land of our own to get raped by modern nations. But now we're in them! We've got the same chances of success now, Whoo!

I think most Asians tend to forget the social struggles that their own people went through... but you know...everyone hates history....

We're at the bottom of the stick because we're too proud of our little accomplishments and not wanting to work harder. Too much of this & etc...

wtf is ur problem dude always tryin to ruin threads, did we say that hmongs r to proud that we should stop, no we did not and of course we r gonna be proud of what we achieved

Because it's boring!

Anyway, I probably admire Hmong and other Southeast Asians descended from refugees with no education more than, say, the sons and daughters of wealthy business owners or doctors from first world East Asian countries. You've come a long way, but let's not get too comfortable. There's still a way to climb.

Agrees, people shouldn't get too comfortable!

txoomsuab2,

I don't have a problem and I could careless about suckers whom are too proud of themselves. Feeling proud still makes people losers. I guess Hmong people don't know modesty. Oh wait, "Hmong" American are not Hmong. Don't you consider yourself Amekas 1st? No wonder, modesty isn't part their character.

Just tell me the truth, how many of you lie in your resume?

i never had a resume before so i wouldn't know about lying but hey ur the expert, and being happy about ones accomplishments makes them less hmong in ur defense? i agree that hmong americans have a long way to go but do we just don't care about what we've accomplished, i graduated college but i'm a failure, i got my lincese but i'm a failure, i'm am the first hmong women senator in the u.s.a but i'm a failure, and it is asmesliskas not amekas and when the fu-k did i say i was not hmong, u being adding to much salt into into ur stories

Yes, all of those you mention are failures. Ie... You got your license, but you still ran over the curve. You got your education, but can't figure how to use the wheel. Have the first Hmong women Senator, but for who? So how can a person in the right state of mind be proud of such trivial accomplishments when really they're just failures? Being happy and proud of such trivial things is very unHmong. That's just the current events in our community. It's very unHmong not to push Hmong people do better and far greater things. This is why Hmong people get nowhere because they're too proud and lazy where they're to even want to work a little harder to achieve a better life for themselves. No wonder, others say Hmong people are stupid.

To be honest, other Asian immigrants had similar hard ships to us Hmongs' as well. Chinese, Japanese, Asian Indians, other SEA's, etc. The only difference is that for some of them are that there has been generations that have been in the United States. For the Chinese, they have been here since the mid 1800's. They practically came for work with nothing but their clothes and possibly paperwork. The Japanese were pretty much the same. For us Hmong, it is great to be proud of accomplishments as a whole, since we are tied in that social capital but we should always strive to be more than just Hmong. We should strive to be Hmong-American. Not saying that leave all of our cultures and language behind like Asians before us but what I think is that there should be an expansion of Hmong onto American fields and networks. Be proud of who you are and what has been accomplished but don't stop because a fad.

Go look at those that are still at the project homes and those recently arrived. There's nothing to be proud about when Hmong people as a whole can't even help them out of poverty.

I disagree with what you said. I'm a sociology graduate and i can see how narrow and simple your criticism is for Hmong people for both the new arrivals and the Americanized one. You mentioned poverty. I like to refer to that book by Elijah Anderson, "code of the street" to use against people whom does not look deep enough and too quick to generalize. Just ask yourself this question, do black people from the ghetto really want to live in poverty? No, it is discrimination that led to the development of these "subcultures". What i meant to say is, this is similar to Hmong and poverty. It is simply the social inequalities that creates these "subcultures". You can see this among Hmong and Lao. Many gangs.

Now, you would probably say that Hmong didn't suffer much from discrimination here in the US. True, however... if you look back at Laos. Hmong people are different from Laotians because Lao people discriminate against Hmong. With discrimination comes social inequalities such as education. We all know Education is key. Here in the US, Hmong never faced discrimination on that level of blacks but still, small social inequalities can be detrimental.

True, we shouldn't merely be too boastful of prideful from these small achievements but being proud doesn't necessary suggest that we stop our striving. Our mentality is very East Asian. You might disagree from your generalization of observation from the current Hmong population but you are merely "skewing" your predictions and generalization. It's like comparing 30 years to 200 years. -__-

Like aforementioned, Hmong people came from the mountains with no literacy. If you understand the transition of skills, it is easier for a Vietnamese whom is literate in his or her language to easily pick up English compared to a Hmong. That's the major difference between majority of Asians in the U.S. and Hmong.

It is probably safe to say that Hmong, Mein, and Khmu are among them most illiterate from SE Asia. However, when you look at the small achievements, you should be proud that Hmong people are at least making small progressions.

It's just like saying that black people were in this country for 200 years and yet, progressed slow compared to Vietnamese. Social differentiation anyone?

Being a little too cynical, Yaj? Maybe you're around the wrong type of Hmong people haha. The new waves of immigrants, of course they're gonna be thrown in public housing but damn they sure have it a lot easier than our parents did and that is mainly because we're here. Most of my Thailand relatives who came here from the Wat in 2003-2004 are independent now. The children have grown up educated with good morals and will most definitely finish highschool. If you delve into their everyday lives, there's plenty of Hmong that go above and beyond in the community...but we're still in that stage of progression... Your leaders and successful mainstream Hmong will come through in time.

ur the only one saying hmong r stupid, hmong people r behind because we r still developing and we came from a 3rd world country, when the fu-k did hmong people say that they r to proud that they should stop going far, we r always getting better every year, little improvements here and there, we r not perfect but we try our best to encourage our people instead of bring them down, so being proud of our accomplishments is very unhmong, how dumb, there r lazy hmongs and hard working hmongs just like every other ethnicity, u r to damn stubborn

amen, preach it

Sorry, just because you major in sociology doesn't mean you know every faucet of life in the community.lol
If you want to debate about blacks and inequality that creates such groupings of people, we can on a separate thread.

As for being narrow and simple. Yes, I deliberately narrow and simplify my critiques. Wouldn't it make things easier for everybody to understand?

Lilaznkid,

Awe yeh... Txoomsuab2 loves to respond explosively with foul language so I thought I play along.

Txoomsuab2,

Blind and stupid Hmong trying to encourage Hmong with bad and failed examples. And trying your best? Most teens nowadays are more interested in video games and football. In the end, you're just another nigguh.

b!tch talk all the $hit u want u aint nothin, b!tch be about it, all u do is say $hit like hmong people aint done nothin well take a good look at urself, u to stupid to realize that hmongs r happy and ready to exceed in life but u can't accept hmong people succeeding

What's a Hmong? Even some white boys don't know what a Hmong is. And here you are talking about succeeding. Just another nigguh and nothing changed.

hmong is me, duh do u think everybody in the goddamn world gonna know who we r? some don't even know where asia is

No I don't expect everyone in the world to know but because Hmong hasn't made any significant gains, Hmong is oblivious to the world. Thus, proving that Hmong succeed nothing.

so, the world does not need to know about us for us to be successful

Nope. Why do you or any other hmong person care so much about getting notice? When it's not worth somebodies time... Isn't being contempt enough?

Your argument have no agency. Your simplicity holds no substance. Why not try and be constructive?

Yes, a sociology amateur such as myself doesn't know every faucet of life in the community. In fact, no sociologist would ever know. Every sociologist is specialized to a specific area. The mere fact that you mentioned that makes you sound very amateur.

Why not try to explain the Hmong social economic inequalities instead of blatantly observe and complain? You don't see the larger/macro picture. You only see the micro level. You see Hmong gangs here and there. You see a few Hmong doctors and business men. You automatically jump into conclusion. You didn't realize the progress on the larger picture and in the long run. -___-

ur the one tryin to get notice, u want outsiders to know us for us to qualify as a an succeeding people, we do not need other ethnicity's acknowledgement to feel good

that is the dumbest logic ever, not every race is gonna know about every other nation, let's see the yanomami don't know the americans, the sherpas never heard of scandinaivians, the the surmis r clueless about the germans, see they r all big powers but do u think all people would know about them

and white boys, cmon u pick the most uninformed group, doesn't matter what they think because some people r just not exposed to the world

He's just a pseudo intellect troll. Ignore him.

This thread proves exactly why the Hmong people will never rise above their own internal conflicts and pessimistic attitudes.

I'm Hmong and I'm better than the rest if you peasants.

individually, hmong people are ahead or behind according to their own ability and drive. there's no need to argue the point because there are many successful and many unsuccessful ones. its the american culture. you can point to all the homeless and inner-city americans and claim that americans are 'behind', but is that a fair statement? absolutely not; the subject is too broad and the views are biased according to each general locale.

then are hmong people as an entity behind? YES. because collectively, there is no cohesion. without cohesion, there can be no progression for the entirety. until hmong people understand this concept and organize themselves, they will never advance as an entity in the US, china, laos, vietnam or wherever. no one can do it for us, no one will do it for us; but all the steps have been laid out a hundred times before, by a thousand individuals before.

Amateur, you're the only one here flashing your background as an expert in such a realm and now you want to retract? There's really no excuse for someone claiming a certain background and excusing oneself as not specialize. Why now make general assessments? Who needs to waste time in analyzing at the macro level when the micro will do? So I'm an amateur, so what? I'm no sociologist, however, probabilities don't lie. Hearing your suggestions, just makes me wonder whether you sociologist can really make your own conclusions at the "macro" level. I can picture your vague conclusions. Such conclusions are unacceptable but perhaps in the field of sociology?

So I'm a psuedo brainiac troll, what does that make you? For someone who just jumps in, claiming to be an expert in the field, and can't offer his/her own assessment whether it be a block or a whole lot and declining my offer but resort to labeling others. Just goes to show you're just a hypocrite.

Xaithoj,
Well said. Thus, there's really nothing to be proud of.

I chose not to read your ramblings. I am not boasting... because of your attitude, i decided to show some credentials unlike you, whom boast about of no substance in your arguments.

Seriously, if i didn't flash my background you may have discredited me merely as a pseudo intellect.

Exactly, you're no sociologist that's why i proclaim you merely as a pseudo intellect when it comes to subjects like these. You are arguing on something you know so little about. Stop trying so hard will ya?

And if you want my assessment maybe i'll try to be humble and offer them however, your stubbornness makes it futile. You have an agenda and it doesn't matter what statistics i pull out, you'll still try and "fabricate" some BS to prove your trivial point. It's like trying to teach a dog how to use the toilet.

Topics like these are so popular in contemporary sociology. It's only those who chose not to heed that goes about being ignorant. It's not rocket science dude. -____________________________-

Zzzzzzzzzzz...

More Hmong people fighting over a moot point again. Are any of you sure we're not the lost thirteenth tribe of Judiah?

Thanks for elaborating and supporting.

We should be proud, but I agree, we shouldn't boast so much about it. I hope I didn't come off like that in my post because it was not meant to be
You never know, you could be really good one year and be a total disaster the next year, so you should be wise and not boast so much.


@YAJ
I agree with you too!
...but not everything. Hmong people do frustrate me sometimes. I know they can do better but they choose not to. They choose to get into relationships, they choose to have babies and then forced to get marry at a young age, they choose to join gangs, they choose to club and drink instead of studying or doing something more productive (Hmong people club too much).. I see that a lot in our youth and young adults. I just think those things and decisions are so stupid! They could do so such better to contribute to society but they choose to take paths that helps them/no one go anywhere.

The older generation did really well though. I applaud them for their accomplishments. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves and learn from them.
I'm not losing hopes yet! I'm starting to see more and more young Hmong pushing their limits, joining AP classes, studying abroad, graduating as valedictorians, going to UCs, joining gangs less, marrying later (but there are still some that marry early and it makes me ant to say "WTH?!! Have you not learned from your older siblings and how screwed up some of their lives are because they married young? COME ON!). I encourage that, and I hope they don't turn out like the many Hmong around my generation.

Thus as before, in perfect illustration, marry outside the Hmong culture to break the vicious Hmong cycle of cultural expectations and rules.

In with the new, out with the old.

Caucasian "snapper" tastes good too.

lol. to me i wasn't always the smartest person in school, but what i always know that anyone can work hard. that's what i don't mind doing. i work hard at work. that's why all my past jobs notices my hard work. my hard work when noticed reminds ppl of how hard working asians were known for in the past. these days i seen many of my non asian coworkers telling me how much the young hmong coworkers are complaining all the time. how they want their celebrity status respect. im always telling the young hmong workers to keep working hard and remember that having a job is already good enough. just remember that you have it better some ppl who have it worse. my hmong coworkers can do one heck of a work when they do. sadly they choose to slack off all the time and complain all the time even at busy hours. ticks me off at times. when they slack off i have to pick up the pace even harder. it's been like that on all my work place since my first workplace. basically at all my workplace im known for the best and hardest worker around at my workplaces. they call i show. i work hard as a team and not just as an individual. i get the job done right the first time.

my opinion is that i'm guessing certain hmong kids must of been spoiled a lot along the way. my life on the other hand has been very hard. so hard that i lost many oppurtunity to get married due to lack of funds and parents support. my life revolves around work hard to stay alive. everything i got i worked hard and earned myself. at times of my life even those were taken away by ppl like hmong gangs stealing from hmong ppl or even other hmong ppl. i always wish that i had parents who spoiled me. to be honest my parents are extremely poor who are extremely ghetto. gamble,profanity,violence,greediness, lies surrounds them. Our family hates each other. the cloest to family love has to be a beneficial business proposal between the family. My father never helped me out once for my marriage. my father cheats on his spouse, addicted to drugs once, addicted to gambling, addicted to trash talking to other elderly. i ended up being this old and not married. to make it worse everytime i saved up money for it or for something i need like a car. some broke @$$ hmong person shows up my door or my parents door. they always beg me first. i dunno why? when i do help them they keep coming back begging the next day(mostly my father back than when i used to live with him). one day i was like "why don't hmong ppl work hard instead of living on welfare and sucking the country dry." that's how i felt at the time because many hmong ppl are like that in my community. they don't work for it rather they beg and do their usual.

These days or my days there are too many youths into gangs for the dumbest or whatever reason. many i've seen always jump into conclusions rather then finding out the whole story. they ended up doing wrong things. to make it worse they cover it up by forgetting about it.

well i just want to get this out of my chest. my father lives easy like a well fed farm animal while ppl like his children work like a slave. he spends all the welfare money on gambling and on himself. same with my mother. we lived poor when i was a youth. i made most of my cloths and shoes last for many many years of my life.

now these days i live on my own and have my own car and job that i earned on my own. help was always rare. all i wanted to say is that yes i came from one of the most bottom end of life as a hmong youth in america. why? father was a bum. XD mother was always nagging and uses most of the money for herself. my brothers are spoiled rotton. that's how they get a video game. honestly i played a lot of video games, but i didn't own many than. none that i owned as a youth. the ones that i did i earned it with cash. other than that i still love to watch cultural dances or even learn hmong history. many youths around me hates learning hmong history. they rather go clubbing and get laid by random strangers while getting high everyday and steal money from their own parents and not looking for a job. are they poor? no they are mostly middle class spoiled hmong kids who enjoy getting high, become ignorant, enjoy being in gangs because they think that makes them cool, go party and clubbing all night and all day(standing in the corner and starting fights). have no clue of who or what they are everyday. yes ppl today's average hmong youth in my community. they are the heroes and role models to many of our youths.

$hit like that is why i got myself out of the hmong community. i lived mostly by non hmong ppl and i enjoy it because i like not seeing drug addicts, "Honda" car thefts, random hmong gang shooting sprees, and gangs around.

$hit like this is what makes hmong americans behind. are all hmong americans like this? no, just certain communities. i see many hmong ppl like this, but at the same time i heard or even met honorable hmong individuals that i respect. that are intelligent, hard working, and a kind person.

I agree with lots of the things that you say.

Thank-you for your pessimistic attribute. But the laws of heavens have a way of correcting itself. The retarded ones-- that think Hmong people can never get along and seem to have an excessive self-hatred for his/her own kind-- usually die off and become/join another group of people. Perhaps, into your group? Because you are certainly not Hmong-- except, maybe your ancestors? lol

-This also applies to our new member who is named after the General.