Can some Thai members enlighten me what they consider Khom and what is not. I still don't understand the whole concept of Thai beliefs.

Are the Khom Khmer or are they Siamese?

This is a serious thread, please try to stay clear of trolling and racism, thank you.

You decide? be a Lao already. Good

Alright, Let me enlighten you...
Khom people were the slave labour that ancient Thai used to build Angkor Wat, just like how modern Thai use Khmer as a construction worker in Thailand as of today.
As you can see, the blueprint of Angkor Wat is still right here at Grand Palace, Bangkok.


Let me enlighten you further, credible source say all SE. Asia civilization including Khmer come from neither China nor India but from Thai's Ban Chiang.
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/575

Brief Description:
"Ban Chiang is considered the most important prehistoric settlement so far discovered in South-East Asia. It marks an important stage in human cultural, social and technological evolution. The site presents the earliest evidence of farming in the region and of the manufacture and use of metals."

Long Description
"Ban Chiang was the centre of a remarkable phenomenon of human cultural, social, and technological evolution in the 5th millennium BC, which occurred independently in this area of south-east Asia and spread widely over the whole region. It is without question the most important prehistoric settlement so far discovered in south-east Asia. It presents the earliest evidence for true farming in the region and for the manufacture and use of metals: its long cultural sequence, size and economic status has no parallel in any other contemporary site in the region."

Historical Description:
"Until the 1960s. south-east Asia was considered to have been a culturally backward area in prehistory. ***The generally accepted view was that its cultural development resulted from external influences, principally from China to the north and India to the west. Recent archaeological work at Nok Nok Tha and, later, Ban Chiang on the Khorat plateau of Thailand has demonstrated this view to be incorrect:*** "This area of modern Thailand has been shown by excavation and field survey to have been the centre of a cultural development in the 4th millennium BC that was an independent from China to the north and India to the west over much of south-east Asia and beyond into the Indonesian archipelago."

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thailand/history
"Modern linguistic theory and archaeological evidence suggest that the first true agriculturists in the world, perhaps also the first metal workers, spoke an early form of Thai and lived in what we know today as Thailand. The Mekong River valley and Khorat Plateau in particular were inhabited as far back as 10,000 years ago, and rice was grown in the Ban Chiang and Ban Prasat areas of Thailand as early as 4000 BC (China, by contrast, was growing and consuming millet at the time). The Ban Chiang culture began bronze metallurgy before 3000 BC; the Middle East’s Bronze Age arrived around 2800 BC, China’s a thousand years later. Ban Chiang bronze works were stronger than their Mesopotamian or Chinese counterparts, mainly due to Ban Chiang’s access to the abundant tin resources of the Thai-Malay Peninsula."
.
"Wherever Thais met indigenous populations of Tibeto-Burmans and Mon-Khmers in the move south and westward (into what is now Myanmar, Thailand and Laos), they were somehow able to displace, assimilate or co-opt them without force. The most probable explanation for this relatively smooth assimilation is that there were already Thai peoples indigenous to the area."

Ban Chiang civilization is of Thai not Khmer.

Take a look at this thread...
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=285359

So, it's not less likely to be true, everything SE. Asia come from Thailand!

I asked yall to be serious, please answer the question truthfully.

This is for research purposes, as I am trying to right a paper on the Thai mentality.

Remember, there is no wrong answer, I'm not here to attack your character.... just be truthful to yourselves.

which part of these to can say it is not Khmer? ^^ is not Thai is also have Khmer Ancestor?? Look at what of your Thai friend have said!!! Don't be stupid.. It is in present day of Thailand.. not Cambodia where the most you guy consider as Khmer Home.. Let me remain you!! Khmer live through out SEA mainland!!! When Tai come to SEA mainland?? Wheneva the scholar already agree that Khmer control through out SEA mainland and Tai refugee just later come in the 11/12 century then no wonder!!!! YOur statement just full of nationalism conclusion can't take its serous

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thailand/history
"Modern linguistic theory and archaeological evidence suggest that the first true agriculturists in the world, perhaps also the first metal workers, spoke an early form of Thai and lived in what we know today as Thailand. The Mekong River valley and Khorat Plateau in particular were inhabited as far back as 10,000 years ago, and rice was grown in the Ban Chiang and Ban Prasat areas of Thailand as early as 4000 BC (China, by contrast, was growing and consuming millet at the time). The Ban Chiang culture began bronze metallurgy before 3000 BC; the Middle East’s Bronze Age arrived around 2800 BC, China’s a thousand years later. Ban Chiang bronze works were stronger than their Mesopotamian or Chinese counterparts, mainly due to Ban Chiang’s access to the abundant tin resources of the Thai-Malay Peninsula."
.
"Wherever Thais met indigenous populations of Tibeto-Burmans and Mon-Khmers in the move south and westward (into what is now Myanmar, Thailand and Laos), they were somehow able to displace, assimilate or co-opt them without force. The most probable explanation for this relatively smooth assimilation is that there were already Thai peoples indigenous to the area."


Do you understand?
Rice was grown in the Ban Chiang by world's first true agriculturists who speak Thai <---- not Khmer
Therefore, Ban Chiang civilization is of Thai not Khmer.
and do you understand this sentence? "there were already Thai peoples indigenous to the area."


http://www.lonelyplanet.com/cambodia/history
"Evidence of cave-dwellers has been found in the northwest of Cambodia. Carbon dating on ceramic pots found in the area shows that they were made around 4200 BC, but it is hard to say whether there is a direct relationship between these cave-dwelling pot makers and contemporary Khmers." <-----Take a look at picture of Ban Chiang Archaeological, it's full of POT, but those pot didn't have anything to do with Khmer.
"Early Chinese records report that the Cambodians were ‘ugly’ and ‘dark’ and went about naked." <---- Barbarian


All text quoted from credible source
Just to remind you, Ban Chiang is in Thai history section not Khmer history section.

Actually, I don't want to repeat, just read it all in here: in English
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=285359

In Thailand- According the scholars, Khorm come from the word Khmer Krom..(Khmer who live in Mekong delta) Actually Siam call Khmer Krom but because of the speaking for century the word combine into one word to Khorm.. it is normal in SEA speaking... but after the King of Siam later have change the political view of Siam to rise up the nationalism again Khmer Race (Racism) They make up the problems out of these among the Thai understand by Changing Khorm is Siam ancestor..
And make up many story just to make sence for this kind of Idea.. they build the hated among these two people... and ignorant the Khmer Civilization.

In Cambodia- I know Everyone know the word Kampuchea Krom or Khmer Krom who is Khmer who live in South Vietnam Present day.. and where the Ancient Khmer develop their commercial trade with international trader from through out the world.. The Khmer state of that time call Norkor Phnom or according to Chinese Trader call it Funan (City of Mountain).. So this is mean Khmer from everywhere still call Khmer who live in Mekong Delta that Khmer Krom.

But off cause the word Khorm do existed in Khmer in Cambodia as well.. they that is the influence back from Siam.. Word Khorm in Khmer becoming a word who call Khmer them self for the ancient time.. because Siam at that time also know this word as Khmer as well..

So for these idea it fix to Thai view that Khmer do have Khorm as their ancestor or Leader and Thai is do have Khorm as their ancestor and they are the leader. ^^ ( I think that is bad~)

But some Khmer scholars believe that the word Khorm coming from two state of people is Khmer state and Mon State..
so the Khmer the word Khorm represent of the ancient two civilization state was combine together.. as Khmer always think that Mon is Khmer Brotherhood. So if you are Khmer you will understand that the word Khorm or ខម​ in Khmer coming from ខ is Khmer and ម is Mon (Kh'M).
-Please Read this arcticle it might help you to understand how it make us confuse about the Word Khorm
This is from Thai Historian
http://www.charnvitkasetsiri.com/PDF/Thailand-Cambodia.pdf

This is from Khmer guy view who live in Australia and also had discusion with Thai foreigner Ministry
http://www.cambosastra.org/?p=1840

The link below is the great civilization that both Khmer and Thai are claiming as their own.
But it is already recognize by hundred of national and international Scholars that It was belong to the People of Khmer who known as Cambodian today!!!
The first Video showing the center city of Angkor which is the largest preindustrial city in the world, with an elaborate system of infrastructure connecting an urban sprawl of at least 1,000 square kilometres (390 sq mi) to the well-known temples at its core. The closest rival to Angkor, the Mayan city of Tikal in Guatemala, was between 100 and 150 square kilometres (39 and 58 sq mi) in total size.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsCJPqvc6M...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXj4HH3Imtw

The threat of hate among to country will continue wheneva the idea of Khorm haven't cleartify to rise up a better understanding of the two people..

I hope you find out use full any question just let me know.. I try my best to help.

Nhoona stop acting like a dude. You're a Thai women and you should act like a women. perhaps I'll have to dress up like a drag just to beat the $hit out of you with my high heels? At least we can fight like cats!

Lao use the word Khom too, go ask Lao.

Wakne is full of $hit! What you posted was nationalism and false history crap because your thief race wants to steal every bodies architectural achievements in SEA. Don't act like you Thai's have created or built every ancient temples. You thieves came from Southern China and stole Khmer culture and made a tacky and seizure version of it. No wonder you Thai people are so evil you twists every bodies true history such as Cambodia, Burma, Laos, Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam just to make you Thai's look good and we all look bad. Face it your Thai history is full of thieves, looters and invaders and that thief blood trait has been passed on by your thief ancestors. Even Indonesians even acknowledges that in history Khmer's and Indonesians were friends. You Thai's aren't god and don't try to claim every ancient temples are yours since you Barbarians came from Southern China and try to claim and steal it all with your false stupid nationalism you call history lol

You are just ethnocentric dumbass. Ancient mainland SEA consist of multi-ethnic groups. They lived along each others in separate villages. There were NO khmer as a whole throughout mainland SEA, you are just a truly thief you know? To claim other ancestor's land as your own. It's pathetic. Do you know the concept of Empire? Especially empire in SEA, I guess not! Cos your Khmer education wrongly teach you like that.

Refugee? You humiliate your people again. Everybody here are refugee, the original SEA owner is negrito. Your Khmer ancestor were the refugee from southern China. Just you came before, dosen't mean you are NOT refugee. LOL You are such a rude khmen man, calling other as refugee, but in fact in modern day you Khamen are REAL refugee to Thailand refugee camps. LOL What a joke of khmenlovek dude.

We'll see once The Great Khmer Empire movie comes out and the world can see how big of a thief, invader and looter your ancestors were and it would be funny to see you Thai's as Khmer slaves in the movie lol I can see it now that they are going to portray you Thai barbarians and bandits being chased out of China by mongols and a Khmer king let you refugee in Khmer Empire Territory and then a word pops up saying these refugees are Siamese thieves from Southern China lol The world can see that Khom didn't exist but Khmer's and Khom in Lao still means Khmer but these idiot Thai thieves think it isn't Khmer but the world and them Thai's will see the truth!

Why these Khmen, the trouble makers seeing themselves too high? All I see is their ancestor are also refugee from southern China. They are small, dark and naked by Chinese merchants' records. They even don't know how to dress. LOL It's because of Ancient Indians who taught them how to dance, read, write and wear cloth and sandles. LOL Calling other thief is funny, while they are culture thief to the Indian. without Indian civilization these Khmen will live like a aborigines. LMAO!

We never stole anything from Indians becuase in Khmer history the Indians came to us but in history you Thai's got all Indian culture from Khmer's secondhand by robbing, looting and invading for centuries. No wonder you create bull$hit false history because your real Thai history makes you ashamed being Thai. No matter what bull$hit you Thai's come up with it is set ins stone that Indians and Chinese were friends to Khmer's and it is written that Thai's were the biggest thieves and looters and its no surprise the Chinese kicked your asses out and told the Mongols to slaughter you lol.

You are real ethocentric like Khmenboi, You are also have no clue about Thai/Siamese and Tai. Siamese ancestor have been here as long as others' ancestor. SEA have been land of multi-ethnic since the beginning, there are no such thing like pure ethnic Khmer living all over mainland SEA, those are false information from the French scholars who creates Khmer identity to suit their colonial agenda. And In fact, your khmer ethnic was just Angkor Indian's slaves. Don't think too high like you are capable to do anything without the Ancient Indian. Like I said you even don't know how to wear. LOL

I ask you to be serious if you think you are Tai why you call yourself Lao

I asked you to be serious if you think you are Tai why you call yourself Lao

got ALL Indian culture from you? retard! We have Sri Dhamaraja culture at Southern Thailand, they even had contacted Indian before you kHmen ancestor knew how to wear.

Robbing? Retard! Did your khmen ancestor rob others too? Especially Dvaravati kingdom, the Siamese ancestor. You are the real biggest thief but you don't have any clue cos you are stupid, your khmen education doesn't teach you for sure cos they are full of nationalism $hit.

Your stupid logic is same like the Lao, you know? LOL You wanna claim our prestige culture as yours, why not you just give you culture back to Javanese??? LOL or even further more give it back to Indian! Culture keep evolved... Siamese culture too, we had such many different source from our ancestor and we blend it to one for hundreds of year, and become what is called Siamese/Thai culture today. The culture that people love and adore it. Then the khmer from nowhere after miserable wartorn lives have nothing left and had none of their own *evolved culture*, claim everything Thai/Siamese as their own. What a retard logic and thief behavior.

อีห่าเอ๊ย ไทยจะไปเอาวัฒนธรรมอินเดียจากเขมรทำไมวะ ก็รับเอาจากต้นตำหรับมาเลยดีกว่า อีนาคาฟายเอ๊ย
เอ่อกางแผนที่ดูแล้วลาวกับเขมรห่างไกลจากอินเดียยิ่งกว่าไทย
ก่อนที่วัฒนธรรมอินเดียจะแผ่ไปถึงประเทศพวกมัน ต้องผ่านสยามก่อนอย่างแน่นอน

เซ็งอังกฤษไม่เก่ง

Hey back to what you say dear...

No one would know really where the Khmer come from.. when Khmer traditionally believe we born and live in this land and we own it.. (The legend which most Khmer people know say Our Motherland is the gift of the marriage of Our queen[the only daughter of Naga] with Prince Huntien (Kaundinya) by exhausted the sea until dry to let his Children role the entire of the land) while some other Khmer believe Khmer might migrate from somewhere els and stop and build their civilization base on agriculture in the magic soil of Mekong River from Mekong delta to the Tonle Sap lake where the majority Khmer live.. And some Tai is later migrate and live among the Khmer with other ethnic peacefully.. but the aggressive Tai leave from the defeated of the Mongolian came later on the 11 century I guess.. and you must the son of one of them!!! ^^ while other Tia wast force to do so~

Every words you said Khmer Education are wrong/false, I think you have no any clue about that even once...and you just have no ideas of what we have learn/experiences in school. while Khmer or even your Thai people agreed that you taught false history to Thai Kid You are the real dog barking around... and one of the great result out of these political trolls. You might not understand what I am talking about but you will understand later it need time and real educated people to do it. What you need to do just wait and see!! i guess!!! ^^ and Present day, or might continuing from the past. You might gain support from the only those foolest Thai like Peaceman or SuckerMan I would call him instead.. Nhoona.. which all of them are the same type of you.. THOUGH that YOU ARE BETTER!!! But reality you guys are the REAL WORST!!!!!!

You have no idea of Khmer or Lao who get the education abroad fell the same though into what they can see how Thai member here reaction the truth from Thai perspective toward their neighbor is also part of the Thai education system.. For Those Khmer/Lao had experience deeply how the ignorant, jealousy of those Thai nationalism is.

Yes, Khmer Refugee came to Thailand during the conquer of Vietnam..and Your Thai soldier rape and kill force back those Khmer refugee to the mine field until UN gave you a huge amount of money to stop your cruelly reacts and to allow send those western and other international volunteer into Thai-Cambodia border to help/heel those Khmer Refugee from the suffering in the refugee camps, while Thailand providing the place for those Khmer Rough fight again Cambodia-Vietnam government leave Cambodia with no stability... At least your King who know the truth where his people came from when his people were kill and got kick from Nanchoa (Tai original kingdom which now still under China) and came to Khmer Territory hoping they live safely from the war just like those Khmer who came to Thailand at that time.. I talk about this i don't even count what have you done the past hundred of year.

Again, you have no idea about this because it is not in part of Thai education, Yes, it is also not in part of Khmer education but we know this throw the living evidence and and do more own research.. but what is in your textbook? part of those had mention about one of your King have cut off Khmer King head, took blood to wash your Thai King's foot, as the result of the betrayed from Khmer King against him self and you Thai nationalism believe (even that is not truth) and worship him as the great one. In the other hand, the similarity of what happen inside Cambodia is in Cambodian history Textbook had taught that King Arng Chan had cut off Preah Sdach Korn's head. [The first revolution of Khmer history he take control haft of Cambodia until he got kill by Ang Chan Reachea] and most Cambodian consider it as most cruel reaction toward the revolution.

Your ignore brain will never accept this kind of crime again Human Right. Or you can't believe these?? Sure!!If possible, the Khmer Rouge tribunal (ECCC) should arrested those Thai into Justice!!!

It is too cruel of what your people ha done to Khmer? but it is reality and the only conclude that I can make out of your behavior!!!! All that is just enough for me to devote my self against those brain wash THAI!!!!

Dr. Twich argues that the Siamese built Angkor Wat and Angkor Thom and that the Cambodians were slave labour for construction (คนสยามนี่แหละที่เป็นผู้สร้างนครวัดและนครธม ส่วนเขมรเป็นพวกข้าทาสแรงงานในการก่อสร้าง). He states the indirect evidence for this was a Chinese trade envoy named Zhou Daguan who came to Angkor Wat in 1295. He then states that Zhou observed that those native to Angkor Wat didn’t know about silk weaving and the Siamese did and this supports his theory that many Siamese came to Angkor Wat (หลักฐานข้างต้นนี้สนับสนุนทฤษฎีของผมที่ว่ามีคนสยามเข้าไปอยู่ในนครวัดมาก) and that the Siamese were members of the nobility and relatives of the King (โดยผมเชื่อว่าเป็นคนชั้นสูงที่เป็นเครือญาติของกษัตริย์).

Angkor Wat. Pic: AP.

Most of the construction workers were slave labour who had been captured from war and they had no knowledge of textiles or high technology. Then, in 1336, the slaves rebelled and maybe killed the Siamese and 100,000 slave owners and so became free. (พอถึง ค.ศ. 1336 เมื่อตระซอกประแอมนำพวกทาสล้มบัลลังก์วรมัน ก็อาจฆ่าคนสยาม และพวกนายทาสไปเสีย 1 แสน ในการนี้ทาสทั้งหลายได้ประโยชน์สองต่อคือยึดอำนาจรัฐและปลดแอกจากการเป็นทาส ไปพร้อมกัน). 300,000 escaped and founded Ayuthaya (3 แสนที่เหลือก็หนีตายอพยพไปก่อตั้งกรุงศรีอยุธยา)

Dr. Twich also argues that some translations which were seen as coming from Cambodian were actually from Siamese language and that the names of various temples in Angkor Thom are from Siamese.

Alright Gal, didn't you notice all text in " " quoted from credible international source, how can you call it nationalism and false history.
If you have anything against it, I invite you to answer me in this thread...
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=285359

Stupid Khmen can't eat his own medicine! LMAO!!

Khmer are refugee in mainland SEA, is scientific fact! It's not my opinion but it's FACT!!! Deny whatever you wan't but it won't change the fact. You are the real refugee of the negrito and Malay and Cham. LOL And Seriously, nobody care who claim here first but only one who care is the land thief khmer like you.



No barking, just talking, This Khmer has many dogs in his dirty mouth. LOL



It must be hurt to take your own *REFUGEE* medicine again.
What do you khmen refugee expect? A luxury king-sized bed?? LOL You made yourself trouble but you whine other people (don't act like the Lao ok?). Thai soldiers raped you? who know? How many? If Thais soldiers raped you then your own khmen soldiers or even Khmer men could rape all of your khmen women too. It's war time everything is possible. If a Thai soldier rape someone, then blame that guy, don't blame all Thai people. Don't let this stupid $hit in you gut for hate people. Or by using your stupid logic, those soldiers maybe Khmer surin??? LOL
Back then Thailand was the only one who shoulder the Indochina refugee burden. There were no help from any nations including your French farang master. Thailand had her own problem to feed her people, we were not rich, how could we feed millions of khmen, Lao and viet refugee, huh??? you stupid khmen can't think??? Millions khmen came to Thailand like a huge river, our refugee camps along the Thailand-Laos, Thailand-Cambodian were all FULL. I bet even the western nation couldn't perfectly control this huge problem too. Even this is the world crisis of humankind, there were still NO ONE, NO NATIONS interested to help Thailand handle this problem!!! It's just overload you know, refugeeboy? We just must did something to get World's attention for helps, and it worked and you khmer didn't dieand can live in western countries right now. Being grateful is in Asian spirit, where is in Khmen people??? You are just ungratful. Without Thailand helps you would die or fight each other till there were no Khmen left. Seriously, should Thai response to these silly war fighting of yours in this chat? the Laoscambodian? You just got your own karma. Khmer rouge also your own karma, don't blame us on Khmer rouge, and don't blame the khmer rouge too cos they are Khmer like you. LOL


Did khmen history books teach you that khmer always be the ungrateful underdog of Siam, when Siamese king was busy fighting with the Burmese, the khmer dog king must bit at Siam on the back, it happened all the time of history. LOL and Did they tell you if there were no Siamese helps you Cambodia must be a province in Southern Vietnam like khmer krom. LOL Khmer the ungrateful... and did they tell you that our Siamese kings established your latest Khmer dynasty... LOL Khmer the ignorant... and did they tell you that your post-Angkor culture is just Siamese/Thai culture. LOL Khmer with the blind pride...


Silly much? Khmer kill Khmer, and Khmer blame Thais, the one who help them???

WTF, r u, Refugeeboi???

That is truth that your ignorant ever accepted the true!! Don't you think your story is full of lie and funny? back and read more history books as you can!!!! If you think you greatful and Khmer betray you.. post all of these debate with all the international historian or whoeva interested in History of SEA Mainland.. and let see who is shameful boy!!!!!

Well, NagaPrincess you don't need to go there.. it is too funny!!!!!

RefugeeBoi, please tell me which part of my previous post is wrong or not same as your so-called international historians. Cheap lips not gonna help.

That is almost all them that wrong it gonna be too much work for me

Cheap lips not gonna help you khmen loser. case close LOL

Well those scholars who claim Tai came from Yunnan after the fall of Nanchao are idiots lol their theory has already been proven wrong. The first Tai kingdom IN RECORDED HISTORY is Singhanuwat nakorn aka yonok nakorn chai buri sri chiang saen dated.... 545BC Khmer history does not begin till another 1000 years.

Stop believing in old false theories. This is why you people are so confused with your past.

Ahh okay so then provided me those scholars name.. I would not deny if those scholars got enough quantification.. that would be a great explore and definitely help to prove the truth out of nationalism, and also it is a great dare of what I have learn and research for most of my life.. ^^

There is no Khom theres only Khmer

Is that what you people tell yourselves to make you sleep better at night?

After spending the past 3 years researching Ancient SEA history. Its becoming more and more apparent that the Khom were not actually Khmer. Best proof of that is Zhou Da Guan. The Khom didn't speak khmer or even a khmer dialect as all khmers are linked by language. The Khom were not dark skinned like Khmers.

That is an eye witness account. If you can't handle that information then your living in a fantasy world. Everyone wants to see their people be great and grand etc but sometimes the truth hurts.

Khmers were the slaves that overthrew the Khom and took over their kingdom but were unable to maintain it. Thus no more Khom empire.

Yes, because khom is a thai invention

How would you know? you don't have any written history lol your whole history is based on assumptions. The deeper I've looked into your history using the eye witness accounts and those third party sources from china. Comparing it with the stone inscriptions historic events etc Its pretty apparent that Khom were not Khmer.

Using simple logic and EYE WITNESS ACCOUNT (Zhou Da Guan) Khmers werent the Khom. Why did Khmers abondon Angkor completely except for some monks? Because Khmers were not the ones who built it. Could not maintain the infrastructure. Simply did not understand or have the skills to maintain the systems used. Fits exactly with why the Khom empire started to collapse. The Khmers that took over just did not have the advanced tech to maintain the kingdom.

Why was nothing as advanced as Angkor ever built again? pretty damn simple. It wasn't the Khmers that built it.

Your wrong why? idk why and I ain't going to damage my brain trying to prove you thai ppl wrong because this argument probably will never end. This what I think though I think it seems like only thai ppl know what khom is because most of the world doest except for a few thai ppl who believes khmer didn't built it. Now why should would we believe thai ppl when they say khom are the one who built our temples? It seems like it's only thai ppl who think khom arn't khmer

Because Zhou Da Guan says so. Eye Witness. Can't trust him, who else you gonna believe? Portuguese found Angkor in 1600AD asked the locals who built it? locals said foreigners. Why would a people not claim something that mind blowingly fantastic structure as theirs....unless they knew it really wasn't them that built it.

The ruling class/royalty were light skinned. Khmers are not

Ruling class/royalty spoke a different language from the slaves. Khmers speak khmer...always have, always will.

The normal people/slaves/servants did no possess the technical skills to maintain the kingdom. Khmers overthrew the rulers but did not know how to administrate the kingdom. Maintain the infrastructure. Thus (as accepted by all scholars) food levels dropped, Things were not repaired but abandoned (After building the greatest building of the Era, would you just leave it?) the empire fell apart. fits in perfectly with what happened to Angkorian empire.

Khom administration counts from 1-10, Khmers count 1-5. Mathmatics is VERY important for architecture or any kind of grand scheme. Having a silly counting system would have made it stupidly ridiculously hard to organise such a structure done in such a short time. After building it, why did Khmers revert back to counting 1-5? doesn't make sense.

Why were there no more grand temples or anything of that design after Angkor? religion? pfft Phimai is a buddhist stone temple. The Khom could build them. Khmers couldn't.

After Angkor everything just wen't dead for that civilisation. When people are displaced, they still retain the knowledge, skills, language to continue their culture and civilisation. What happened to the empire? everything wen't dead. Khmers are not the true descendants of the Khom.

so they are saying the Siamese are the Khom ppl?

well at least we agree on one thing, the Siamese are Not Tai. hahaha

but i see a contradiction, Sabaisabai said the Khom are light skin ppl? yet the Siamese are Dark Skin ppl. so they cant be the same ppl,

Exactly.

So this brings a question. Are the siamese (the people who could weave silk and use high tech) the same as the dark skinned slaves mentioned by Zhou Da Guan. They are not.

Siamese are the Khom. No doubt about it. But majority belief is that the Siem/Siamese were the slaves of Angkor. Not the other way round. If you flip it over, its a whole new ball game. The Khom power base is from the north/west. Khmer power base is from southeast.

but Siamese means Brown/Dark Skin ppl, you described the Khom as not being dark. So the Siamese cant be Khom bc the Siamese are Dark Skin ppl. Siamese is sanskrit for Dark/Brown Skin ppl, why would Siamese call themselves Drown skin ppl if they are not?

That's assuming the word Siam actually comes from the word Siyama to mean Dark. It might be from Kambu svayambhuva, but people aren't prepared to go down that road are they?

Now whilst looking at the sanskrit. Sayam is also another word it could have been, to mean Night or evening. Doesn't have to mean Dark as in Dark brown. And another source based on Hindu mythology. Vishnu himself is said to be "Dark" "Zyama" which is Dark Blue. The godlike Regal colour he had. The colour of storm clouds. Seeing as Vishnu/Narayana is an incarnation of Buddha, it makes sense to have a Buddhist/Hindu connection based on this. But that theory is weak and needs more evidence.

Asita is actually the sanskrit for Dark as in colour Dark.

Now we go to simple logic. What other people in SEA are darker then Khmers? if Khmers called someone dark... they have to be DARK. I doubt they will call a lighter skinned people dark. Doesn't make sense.

Siam mean dark in Sankrit. Please accept you're ancestors who created you and you're people. Lao people have been holding on to our ancestor for a very long time unlike you Thai who let it go just to be westernized.

Did I just not translate Sanskrit for you? lol

Zyama = Dark as in Dark at night

Asita = Dark colour

Blind to the obvious? Ive accepted my ancestors lol Im Tai, Chinese, Siam :P can I own them all?

I hope you and Nokhmen are not the same person~

1. Locals did not know any better. Keep in mind, the center of learning and culture moved progressively southward away from Angkor to Srey Santhor, other capitals and eventually Phnom Penh. What was left in Siem Reap is just pheasants. Also, it is pheasant the believed that giants or deities built it. But according to royal tradition, Preah Pisnukar is the one that designed it (Preah Pisnukar story may not be totally true, but this is akin to the Thai story of how Ramkhamhaeng invented everything like Thai alphabet).

Also take into account the population of Cambodia was very small compared to Siam in the post-Angkor era. It only had like 200k before the year 1900s (if I recall correctly), yes the civilization fell greatly. And the progression was impeded greatly too considering that the ones taken captives to Ayuthaya were so crucial to the administration (the brahmins). The ruling class are not the brains behind the civilizations here, it was the Brahmins.

2. The use of a 5-digit counting system is not as silly as you may think it is. Besides, it is only in the names of the numbers when spoken. This perhaps could be attributed to Chinese merchants using abacus' somewhere around the Oudong period (this is based on anecdote from online, I haven't really bothered to research this aspect in history books at the library).

I could only find this passage in Google Books and it's very vague in regards to this.


Anyways, we still use 10 digit or numeral characters in writing. It's totally not as bad as you make it out to be. We had modern architects in the 1950s and 1960s when the country was modernizing and, ho hum, they use Khmer number system.

3. Why were there no more temples? Ayuthayans basically raided the brains of Angkor, toppled down the administration, ravaged the empire. Most of the brahmins gone taken captive back to Ayuthaya. What was left was a population of pheasants and an incompetent ruling class.

There are really dark people in Thailand too and I don't think they are Khmer descent. They look like another ethnic with different facial features from what dark Cambodians look like. Not sure what their name is. Maybe this is what all Siamese look like before Chinese from Southern China and Tai population from Laos came to populate.

hey dear.. I asked you to provided those scholars name so far i haven't got any.. only thing you say according to your researching about SEA history? and Zhu Da Guan? how you come up with is conclusion? Zhu Da Quan talk about Khorm?? I think you never read his full article.. I read them.. dear... I agreed with Surin1234 I don't need to proved you alot because this will not gonna be end..

Go back and learning more especially about Khmer courting system.. you will know how great of this civilization is!!!! I am sure because you never own such a great civilization that why you don't know how 5 courting system mean... ^^

interesting. i wonder why Aythaya art and architecture are so much different from Angkor.



They may be they are Kamuic peoples. They are aboriginal to Laos and surrounding areas...


Tony Ja is Khmuic



Geographic distributionThe Khmuic peoples are aboriginal to Laos and surrounding areas. Most Khmuic peoples live in northern Laos and neighboring areas in Vietnam, although they can also be found in Thailand, Burma and China.

[edit] Individual Khmuic ethnic groupsThe individual Khmuic ethnic groups are as follows:

Khmu
Khuen
Lua
Mal (also known as the Tin in Thailand and the Thin in Laos)
Mlabri (also known as the Yumbri)
O Du
Phai
Pray
Xinh Mul (including Kháng, Phong-Kniang and Puoc speakers)
There are also the Khao and Bit peoples which were once thought to be Khmuic, although recent linguistic studies suggest they are probably Palaungic.

[edit] OriginSee also: Peopling of Laos
The Khmuic peoples are believed to have migrated by land from China to Laos, where they have resided for at least 4,000 years. Some 10,000 years ago, they were probably part of a largely homogenous ethnicity, now referred to as the Austro-Asiatic peoples, with a homeland somewhere within the borders of the modern-day People's Republic of China. The prevalence of Y-DNA Haplogroup O among Austro-Asiatic peoples suggests a common ancestry with the Sino-Tibetan, Austronesian, and Hmong–Mien peoples some 35,000 years ago in China. Haplogroup O is a subclade of Y-DNA Haplogroup K, which is believed to have originated approximately 40,000 years ago somewhere between Iran and Central China. In addition to the ethnicities previously mentioned, the progenitor of Haplogroup K was the patrilineal ancestor of nearly all modern Melanesians and Native Americans. Haplogroup K, in turn, is a subclade of Y-DNA Haplogroup F, which is believed to have originated in Northern Africa some 45,000 years ago. In addition to the ethnicities previously mentioned, the progenitor of Haplogroup F was probably the ancestor of all Indo-Europeans.

[edit] LanguageTheir languages belong to the Khmuic language family, which is a branch of the Austro-Asiatic language family. Most scholars agree that the Khmuic languages are part of the Mon–Khmer branch of the Austro-Asiatic family, but such classification has been recently challenged.[citation needed]

[edit] SocietyThe Khmuic are generally an agricultural people, although gathering, hunting, trapping and fishing are also parts of the Khmuic lifestyle.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmuic_peoples

why dont they accept that Siamese ppl are Dark brown skin ppl? all he has to do is walk around bangkok and actually meet someone who is Siamese, they are Dark Today.

All the Light skin central Thai ppl you see in Bangkok are either Chinese in Origin or from Nothern Thailand or Lao lineage. There are NO light skin Siamese ppl, they are still Dark skin today.

Sanskrit is what is used to describe many things in Central Thailand, and Siamma is just another example of a Siamese word describing the ppl of central Thailand called the Siamese.

If he says the Khom are light skin, thats would explain why the Khom called the Siaemse Dark, because the Siamese were the Dark Slaves of the Khom. The Dark Siamese went to central Thailand where the Tai who migrated down from the North, became their masters. The ruling class of Central Thailand were the light skin Tai ppl while the majority lower class were Dark brown skin Siamese ppl

http://viangyonok.com/en-GB/history.html

Here you go. Read your heart out