Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: SEVERE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ASIANS AT NYU
Asia Finest Discussion Forum > AF Entertainment > Local Area Asian Chat > United States > New York Chat
Smoke_Panther
I am an NYU student and the following story is perhaps the most lucid evidence for white "man's" hatred toward us:

I have always been a person who expresses my opinion openly about controversial issues. However, at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts, my opinions about race were all but tolerated. I was threatened, harassed and even physically assaulted just for my beliefs. Several times, I was nearly expelled.

But that's not the most of it -- in September 2003, a black girl presented a script in which Asians were stereotyped. When I stereotyped blacks in my writing, virtually all the whites turned on me immediately, but when she did the same thing to my race, none of the whites made a passing comment of it. I defended myself by stating that blacks were stupid, and for that I was thrown out of class. All of the students reported that I was racist, yet they never mentioned anything about her racism. In fact, I was practically treated like a criminal for my beliefs on ethnicities, but the black girl received absolutely no harsh treatment for the exact same thing.

In an odd sidenote, the professor took great offense when someone stereotyped hicks, but said "I cannot imagine any way in which the [black student's] script insulted you". Really? Insulting Asians is clearly a bigger deal than insulting hicks.

In response, when I met one of the whites who testified against me in 2004, I spat in his face. I was subsequently suspended, but they decided to give me my degree anyway. It is strange that when he requested security, his call was heeded, but when I was attacked by a white two years earlier, my request was denied.

It is clear that the whites are the problem, since they are the ones who have the most societal authority. Ever since then, I have turned most of my media power (I am now a published novelist) against them.

Just thought the Asian community should know. I am a highly intelligent person (genius IQ), and for as long as I live, I intend to treat whites and probably blacks as though they were less than s*it. I encourage other Asians to do the same.

Please complain to NYU at 2129981543 or at the professor at kreich8462@aol.com
Brian T
Wow, you have a genius IQ? You sure act like an idiot. You seem to have trouble expressing your views and convincing others you are right. Instead you get frustrated and insult others. Subsequently, you get thrown out of class, and nearly thrown out of school. Maybe you should work on that rather than complain on an Asian board where you think you may get sympathy.
ham_let
lol @ using the 'eye for an eye' tactic... dude that is just gay... what's insulting others gonna do? it's just gonna get you into trouble. i'd just complain and possibly talk to the woman who wrote the script and teach her about real asian culture. you seem to have a lot of hate inside. icon_neutral.gif
technolickingkitty
this looks like a troll

1st post and this is what we get? this smells fishy lol
ham_let
QUOTE (technolickingkitty @ Jan 31 2005, 12:10 PM)
this looks like a troll

1st post and this is what we get? this smells fishy lol
*

god techno it took you long enough to get online sure.gif embarassedlaugh.gif
technolickingkitty
I've been working tongue.gif

busy morning lol embarassedlaugh.gif
|Vortex|
WTF is this all about? First; Can you even define who is a white person?, insulting others is way wrong and even more if you come and say "balcks are stupid" if the girl said something that made you feel uncomfortable you should talk to her and explain what things were wrong, maybe she didnt mean it, and what exactly she said?... this is an open forum where evrybody is welcome, hating white and black people just because of their colour is stupid.
technolickingkitty
^hello...in case u haven't noticed it's a troll icon_rolleyes.gif
sniff
QUOTE (technolickingkitty @ Jan 31 2005, 01:10 PM)
this smells fishy lol
*



that might be the sushi i got for lunch munch.gif
VietPunk
QUOTE (technolickingkitty @ Jan 31 2005, 12:10 PM)
this looks like a troll

1st post and this is what we get? this smells fishy lol
*


nope, it's just your pussy.....cat. hahaha
technolickingkitty
^my kitty is clean....I gave her a bath this morning...wanna see her pic? biggrin.gif


sniff pass the sushi woman!!!! it's lunch time here bawling.gif
GawtxJenny
QUOTE (technolickingkitty @ Jan 31 2005, 12:34 PM)
^hello...in case u haven't noticed it's a troll icon_rolleyes.gif
*


its a guy on another forum that im on yes...im cheating on AF *cries** hahahha
chicken_pot_pie
Isn't this the guy jasel banned like 10 times?
AzNfly
i wanna go to NYU......
Jasel
sounds like a troll trying to start a fire and get the flames going. If not fighting racism with racism doesnt make anything better. One reason I don't believe your story is if you were so intelligent you would obviously grasp that concept. Since you can't you're either just a troll or not as intelligent as you THINK you are.
AgentBach
I thought racism towards any race wan't tolerated in a SUNY school? Wait...assuming NYU is SUNY.
華夏無產
Similar incidents happened to me in the past due to liberal westerners wanting to be "politically correct" about mostly everything. Even when I said something harmless and backed by scientific fact (not even about blacks/whites), there was some oversensitive individual who would have [emotionally] overreacted.

As a result, I simply learned to apply my mental strength to remain calm when certain individuals became angry over my "racism".
MasteroD
QUOTE (Brian T @ Jan 31 2005, 11:47 AM)
Wow, you have a genius IQ? You sure act like an idiot. You seem to have trouble expressing your views and convincing others you are right. Instead you get frustrated and insult others. Subsequently, you get thrown out of class, and nearly thrown out of school. Maybe you should work on that rather than complain on an Asian board where you think you may get sympathy.
*


im not saying he's smart or anything,

but historically many geniuses were socially inept. somebody could definetly be smart and not know how to interact well with others. they are often on a whole 'nother level intellectually and thus cannot deal with people in general.



anyways, me being in college myself, i would know better than to be racist in a college classroom LOL

you said they took away your degree? how in the world did you become an accomplished writer then?
tvbdude
I think he got the degree then after this incident, they took his degree away. he's in his late 20's. I agree with this guy though
fihe
you sound like an Asian KKK member.
ham_let
LOl dude wtf. i remember this. embarassedlaugh.gif
tehwprks
For a person with a "genius IQ" you sure act childish for your age.
Jasel
ahh i forgot all about this one. amazing how much stuff you can forget eek.gif
sniff
QUOTE (fihe @ Aug 2 2005, 11:03 PM)
you sound like an Asian KKK member.
*



hello and welcome to 8 months ago.

embarassedlaugh.gif
RyceBoy
haha u're dumb u should jus remember all the ppl that were poppin shyt about azns and then u get a group numberin from 30-50 ppl and beat those knee-grows and crackers down
december_rain
QUOTE (Smoke_Panther @ Jan 31 2005, 10:34 AM)
I am an NYU student and the following story is perhaps the most lucid evidence for white "man's" hatred toward us:

I have always been a person who expresses my opinion openly about controversial issues. However, at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts, my opinions about race were all but tolerated. I was threatened, harassed and even physically assaulted just for my beliefs. Several times, I was nearly expelled.

But that's not the most of it -- in September 2003, a black girl presented a script in which Asians were stereotyped. When I stereotyped blacks in my writing, virtually all the whites turned on me immediately, but when she did the same thing to my race, none of the whites made a passing comment of it. I defended myself by stating that blacks were stupid, and for that I was thrown out of class. All of the students reported that I was racist, yet they never mentioned anything about her racism. In fact, I was practically treated like a criminal for my beliefs on ethnicities, but the black girl received absolutely no harsh treatment for the exact same thing.

In an odd sidenote, the professor took great offense when someone stereotyped hicks, but said "I cannot imagine any way in which the [black student's] script insulted you". Really? Insulting Asians is clearly a bigger deal than insulting hicks.

In response, when I met one of the whites who testified against me in 2004, I spat in his face. I was subsequently suspended, but they decided to give me my degree anyway. It is strange that when he requested security, his call was heeded, but when I was attacked by a white two years earlier, my request was denied.

It is clear that the whites are the problem, since they are the ones who have the most societal authority. Ever since then, I have turned most of my media power (I am now a published novelist) against them.

Just thought the Asian community should know. I am a highly intelligent person (genius IQ), and for as long as I live, I intend to treat whites and probably blacks as though they were less than s*it. I encourage other Asians to do the same.

Please complain to NYU at 2129981543 or at the professor at kreich8462@aol.com
*


please go drink a bottle of bleach, you deserve the beating you got, and another one
Nihonto
Yea, white people are evil. -_-

This dude's kinda wack. If you're in America and insulting a race that outnumbers you by a lot, you're going to loose, There are probably not a lot of asians so they don't understand it's stereotyping. For someone with a high IQ you sure are a dumbass.
NYCVukken99
Discrimination is a real issue in America and worldwide.

In the US, the caucasians are the majority and b/c of historical guilty of black slavery
they are sort of obliged to be more forgiving towards the expression of many young
african americans.

Unfortunately, it is not easy to be part of a minority group specially Asians.

But, for your consolation there is discrimination even in our own asian countries.
In korea, if you are a non-korean by race but born in korea who are still going to face
discrimation in a very subtle way like in the corporate ladder.

I think the issue is not the hate the entire race.

Even among whites they look down among themselves to certain groups.

I think it is more important to understand our stance and our identity and to apply
in our daily lives...
sjk3
jesus christ, you asians act like you've never been discriminated against and show no real compassion or support. This guy experienced a double standard in racism. And its bs to say whites and blacks don't know when they are stereotyping. Of course they do, they just don't give a $hit. Its called marginalizing. A form of prejudice based on negligence and dismissal. Attacks are ignored or not taken seriously. Its wrong, period. But attacking them even if they probably do deserve it is not going to work because first, its power of numbers. Asians are the minority compared to blacks and whites and you are obviously dealing with dishonest people, character wise. I think you should have reported it to the school dean. You should have used the chain of command to take it as far as possible. But i think you did make your point because they were 'dumb' in stereotyping as you pointed out even though they denied it. There is a lot of people like this in america as racism and prejudice is rampant as elsewhere maybe not as bad or glaring. People are selfish and use cheap ego tactics by putting down another race or culture to bolster their own identity.

And by the way, I can tell he is very intelligent. More intelligent than the people who keep calling him a dumbass because he had a CLUE and knew and called them on it to the fact they KNEW they were being assholes. He wasn't a go along with the $hit mindless fuks who do nothing to curb the stereotypes but just become bananas to escape it, so the real asians keep getting hit. Real cowards. The dumb idiots are the ones who believe americans don't know when they are being insulting. ITS THE NAME OF THE GAME. lol, pathetic.
komugi
I don't mind, I like playing the minority card in US... It usually opens doors.
Jasel
I love how so many people sit around thinking whites feel guilty for slavery and second class citizenship given to blacks for over a hundred years after it ended.
three_kingdoms
well what do u expect. thats why in sociology and history NYU is not even in the top 50 rankings.
tengkuafif
QUOTE(Smoke_Panther @ Jan 31 2005, 11:34 PM) [snapback]694540[/snapback]

I am an NYU student and the following story is perhaps the most lucid evidence for white "man's" hatred toward us:

I have always been a person who expresses my opinion openly about controversial issues. However, at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts, my opinions about race were all but tolerated. I was threatened, harassed and even physically assaulted just for my beliefs. Several times, I was nearly expelled.

But that's not the most of it -- in September 2003, a black girl presented a script in which Asians were stereotyped. When I stereotyped blacks in my writing, virtually all the whites turned on me immediately, but when she did the same thing to my race, none of the whites made a passing comment of it. I defended myself by stating that blacks were stupid, and for that I was thrown out of class. All of the students reported that I was racist, yet they never mentioned anything about her racism. In fact, I was practically treated like a criminal for my beliefs on ethnicities, but the black girl received absolutely no harsh treatment for the exact same thing.

In an odd sidenote, the professor took great offense when someone stereotyped hicks, but said "I cannot imagine any way in which the [black student's] script insulted you". Really? Insulting Asians is clearly a bigger deal than insulting hicks.

In response, when I met one of the whites who testified against me in 2004, I spat in his face. I was subsequently suspended, but they decided to give me my degree anyway. It is strange that when he requested security, his call was heeded, but when I was attacked by a white two years earlier, my request was denied.

It is clear that the whites are the problem, since they are the ones who have the most societal authority. Ever since then, I have turned most of my media power (I am now a published novelist) against them.

Just thought the Asian community should know. I am a highly intelligent person (genius IQ), and for as long as I live, I intend to treat whites and probably blacks as though they were less than s*it. I encourage other Asians to do the same.

Please complain to NYU at 2129981543 or at the professor at kreich8462@aol.com


You have to realise that you are just a minority.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
wRiter Reverie
QUOTE(sjk3 @ Jul 16 2006, 08:18 AM) [snapback]2056435[/snapback]

jesus christ, you asians act like you've never been discriminated against and show no real compassion or support. This guy experienced a double standard in racism. And its bs to say whites and blacks don't know when they are stereotyping. Of course they do, they just don't give a $hit. Its called marginalizing. A form of prejudice based on negligence and dismissal. Attacks are ignored or not taken seriously. Its wrong, period. But attacking them even if they probably do deserve it is not going to work because first, its power of numbers. Asians are the minority compared to blacks and whites and you are obviously dealing with dishonest people, character wise. I think you should have reported it to the school dean. You should have used the chain of command to take it as far as possible. But i think you did make your point because they were 'dumb' in stereotyping as you pointed out even though they denied it. There is a lot of people like this in america as racism and prejudice is rampant as elsewhere maybe not as bad or glaring. People are selfish and use cheap ego tactics by putting down another race or culture to bolster their own identity.

And by the way, I can tell he is very intelligent. More intelligent than the people who keep calling him a dumbass because he had a CLUE and knew and called them on it to the fact they KNEW they were being assholes. He wasn't a go along with the $hit mindless fuks who do nothing to curb the stereotypes but just become bananas to escape it, so the real asians keep getting hit. Real cowards. The dumb idiots are the ones who believe americans don't know when they are being insulting. ITS THE NAME OF THE GAME. lol, pathetic.

icon_rolleyes.gif
Of course... it's intelligent to join the cause your fighting against (racism).
sjk3
^simple banana retard, shud up. Acquiescence is not the answer. I'm sure you'll need a dictionary to understand my little post and comprehend the full meaning.
epicanthics
The problem is that it seems like it's "okay" to do to Asians what would get your @$$ beat if you did it to a black or a latino. As that one Asian guy on comedy central with the ridiculous hair states, we're the only ones who get ripped on while we're still in the room.

Where I go to school, there were two incidents that highlighted this. First, some local rap station aired an incredibly offensive song about the Xmas Tsunami going on, among other things, chineses and stuff drowning to death. This broke a week or two after the Tsunami hit. Naturally, it was an outrage, and the station refused to apologize citing free speech. Asians who complained were accused of being oversensitive and lacking a sense of humor.

The next year, a campus humor magazine published an article on the school's "Yellow Plague" detailing how the asian girls on campus were all sluts because the asian guys had no play. In its defense, the magazine was already known for blatant violations of the PC code, (one reason for its popularity) and the article was originally meant to be only part of a larger rip on all the campus ethnic groups. However, the general response of the asian population, though justified, was dismissed as prudish and oversensitive. No one dares make a joke about Fubu and fried chicken, but when something like this occurs, it's the victims that need to "lighten up."

There was an attempt at an organized response, where for one day all participating Asian students would wear very ninja-like mouth coverings and refuse to take part in discussions and such. Obviously, it fell through, since midterms were right around the corner. Had everyone who pledged participation actually participated, it would have been a pretty quiet day on campus.

Asians are simply too meek, self-interested and divisive to make a difference whenever things like this break out. It'll take something akin to the LA riots or a general strike to be taken seriously.
The-Foreigner
QUOTE(sjk3 @ Jul 16 2006, 04:18 AM) [snapback]2056435[/snapback]

jesus christ, you asians act like you've never been discriminated against and show no real compassion or support. This guy experienced a double standard in racism. And its bs to say whites and blacks don't know when they are stereotyping. Of course they do, they just don't give a $hit. Its called marginalizing. A form of prejudice based on negligence and dismissal. Attacks are ignored or not taken seriously. Its wrong, period. But attacking them even if they probably do deserve it is not going to work because first, its power of numbers. Asians are the minority compared to blacks and whites and you are obviously dealing with dishonest people, character wise. I think you should have reported it to the school dean. You should have used the chain of command to take it as far as possible. But i think you did make your point because they were 'dumb' in stereotyping as you pointed out even though they denied it. There is a lot of people like this in america as racism and prejudice is rampant as elsewhere maybe not as bad or glaring. People are selfish and use cheap ego tactics by putting down another race or culture to bolster their own identity.

And by the way, I can tell he is very intelligent. More intelligent than the people who keep calling him a dumbass because he had a CLUE and knew and called them on it to the fact they KNEW they were being assholes. He wasn't a go along with the $hit mindless fuks who do nothing to curb the stereotypes but just become bananas to escape it, so the real asians keep getting hit. Real cowards. The dumb idiots are the ones who believe americans don't know when they are being insulting. ITS THE NAME OF THE GAME. lol, pathetic.



I totally agree, some of you would just laugh/brush off any form of racism even if it slapped you in the face. All pussies if ya ask me. Dont go thinking things are about to improve in the mean time with regards the fu-king stereotyping.

Blacks and Hispanics didnt get the respect they got for trying to blend in or trying to be the whitemans monkey on a chain, they stood up for themselves, kicked a few doors down. Now look at them, ok noted they got some bad rep but do you think a white man in his right mind would just go up to a blackman and call him "N!gger" and expect to get up to the next block in one piece? there is once upon a time the whiteman could do whatever sh!t but times have changed for them. Are you all just to happy to be the whitemans monkey? i sure hell aint. Like the thread starter. I hate the sh!t look they give you.
You know, the "Ahh he just another fu-king asian, he aint $hit, just another 2nd class citizen".

Especially when you goto stores. Like i did today. Went to the local "Big lots" got a few bits and so 2 people were serving at the counter, one was a whiteboy and the other was a Hispanic lady. And so im like looking at the two seing which one could serve me first. Im looking onto the whiteboy since his customer is all bagged up and should be ready to serve me. Nope, he took out some book and started reading it, and while all that was going on he knew very well i was waiting to give the ok if i was ok to be served (like they always do) and so the hispanic lady also finished serving hers and so she called me over if i want to checkout, all the while she was bagging my stuff im looking at the white boy and he sees a whiteman and asks them if their done and so he starts bagging their stuff and what not. So i complain to the hispanic lady and ask her "Whats with the whiteboy, does he have a problem with serving asians cuz he looked like he didnt want to serve me" her reply was "you know what their like" and so asks me if i want to complain to the manager, and so im like yeah ok lets put this d!ckwipe on the spot. When i saw the black manager who happens to be the father of a kid that goes to the same school as my little boy and is a good friend of mine. In the back of my head i looked at the whiteboy and said to myself "you gonna be in $hit right now boy!!!"
And so we do our greetings and i say to him "listen i got a problem with one of your staff" he goes off to say "ok who is it and lets sort out the matter" and so i said "no actually just let me talk and you can deal with it afterwards on how you see fit" he replies "OK". And so we walks up to the whiteboy and i ask him in from of a lot of people "Hey boy, you got a problem with serving me? you got a problem with serving my color? yet you have no problem of serving those two white people" i was pissed at this time to say the least and so pressed on to say "Listen boy, dunno where the fu-k you come from but round here your the minority and the anus". The manager was like stunned at me and so my goodbye speech to him was "hey bro no disrespect to you but you should put these white hoes in line". I didnt even bother to stay round long enough to hear what he had to say and he knew it.

If all yous too happy with the stereotypes then expect to be treated like shiet and b!tch about it after, b!tching amongst yourselves aint gonna solve these issues. You all have rights to be treated equally. Being Asians doesnt mean you take whatever and how people see fit to treat you. When will some of you wake up? Doesnt it bother you that when the blacks and whites have a little race war that we asians get caught in the middle. Yeah you ever noticed how they suddenly fu-king notice you to entice you to take their side?. And soon as the dust settles, the question again would be "who the fu-k you? ahh yeah the little asian" Talktohand.gif
The-Foreigner
Ok apologies, im not on home turf, but the racism thing that caught my eye and thought some further enlightenment and support for those who choose to see and open their minds to this discrimination and for what it is. Asians have a lot to be proud of and have contributed a lot to the world and for us to be brushed aside and pull us when were needed for their convenience is not on. We all have the right and power to change things around us, some of you guys just need to believe it, im not telling you this on the basis of a theory but actions individuals have taken to stand up for what they see whats right and wrong.
HanulSky
Yeah, exactly. There was this issue, when I was at school, and some white kids put insulting racist comments on a girls door, and they let it all go and covered it up.
tgzo
I can't believe so many asians flaming the poster. I just despise faggots. He's got some spine, standing up like that. $hit, the brother is crazier than me by openly denouncing the cancer boys.

For those of you who got nothing better to say, please don't project your "acceptance of all race" "peace loving" bullcrap onto everyone else, when it's time for war, it's time for war. We need real men like the poster standing up for himself. It's down right disgusting to see asian girls trying to be white and asian guys laughing everything off like some kind of white hippy. Man, fight to death or at least verbally attack them back.
Crystallised Dream
QUOTE(Smoke_Panther @ Jan 31 2005, 11:34 PM) [snapback]694540[/snapback]

I am an NYU student and the following story is perhaps the most lucid evidence for white "man's" hatred toward us:

I have always been a person who expresses my opinion openly about controversial issues. However, at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts, my opinions about race were all but tolerated. I was threatened, harassed and even physically assaulted just for my beliefs. Several times, I was nearly expelled.

But that's not the most of it -- in September 2003, a black girl presented a script in which Asians were stereotyped. When I stereotyped blacks in my writing, virtually all the whites turned on me immediately, but when she did the same thing to my race, none of the whites made a passing comment of it. I defended myself by stating that blacks were stupid, and for that I was thrown out of class. All of the students reported that I was racist, yet they never mentioned anything about her racism. In fact, I was practically treated like a criminal for my beliefs on ethnicities, but the black girl received absolutely no harsh treatment for the exact same thing.

In an odd sidenote, the professor took great offense when someone stereotyped hicks, but said "I cannot imagine any way in which the [black student's] script insulted you". Really? Insulting Asians is clearly a bigger deal than insulting hicks.

In response, when I met one of the whites who testified against me in 2004, I spat in his face. I was subsequently suspended, but they decided to give me my degree anyway. It is strange that when he requested security, his call was heeded, but when I was attacked by a white two years earlier, my request was denied.

It is clear that the whites are the problem, since they are the ones who have the most societal authority. Ever since then, I have turned most of my media power (I am now a published novelist) against them.

Just thought the Asian community should know. I am a highly intelligent person (genius IQ), and for as long as I live, I intend to treat whites and probably blacks as though they were less than s*it. I encourage other Asians to do the same.

Please complain to NYU at 2129981543 or at the professor at kreich8462@aol.com


I was disgusted at the part where Asians couldn't get away with stereotype, but other races can. It's not that I have the "Why you can, and I can't?' mentality. Asians shouldn't get away with stereotype, and other races shouldn't either. That's partiality, and racial partiality gives out one of the strongest stink on this planet.

You shouldn't have settled things the 'eye for an eye' way, Smoke_Panther. I quote Mahatma Gandhi here:

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

It is true. I don't care about how high your IQ is. I want to know how high your EQ is, sir. At the end of the day EQ is still on a higher level than IQ and this is proven in your case. No matter how high your IQ is it seems that you still have to set right your eye for an eye mindset. Like what they say, cleverness does not necessarily go hand-in-hand with wisdom.

I'm not sure if you're gonna read this post of mine, but anyway I wish that you had not treat the blacks/whites the same way they treated you. It just lowers you to the same level. You should've written a letter to the Department of Education or something. Just find more sensible means to express the condition in your university.

If everyone were to think the same way you thought, sir, no problems can be solved without violence. Seriously. Do you support world peace?
deeme2000
It's really disturbing to read about incidents like this still going on in the world. I think the problem really becomes that Asians really don't come together in support for one another enough.

When an African American is shot 40 times by cops, the community bands together, takes over every news story and has marches for days. Their community leaders step up and make public outcries.

What about the Asians that are beat up constantly in blatant hate crimes? About the Sikh men that were nearly beat lifeless after 9-11 bc of their traditional turbons? Where were the public outcries and community leaders then?

I say, make your voice heard by writing and bothering the people in power. Don't let them forget they work for you; take an active stand in the community; vote!

If we let them think we're not valuable enough to go after our votes, why should they care about our issues? I'm not a fan of politics, but we really can't be voiceless and inactive any longer. And the Asian community as a whole needs to band together instead of thinking 'Oh that's a Chinese-Indian-Korean-whatever guy that got beat down'

It should be, 'that's a fellow Asian, and if happened to him/her it can happen to me. What can we do NOW to change that?'
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.