contrary to popular belief, the hmong lao did not 100% support gen. vang pao. in fact, a significant portion supported hanoi and the ldpr. here is a current list of all hmong people serving in significant capacities in the ldpr. so what do you think? are they traitors or pioneers?

Madame Pany Yathortou, Member of Politburo of the Lao People’s
Revolutionary Party Central Committee (among the 11 most powerful
persons in Laos) and Vice President of the Lao National Assembly.

Six Ministers such as:
1. Chaleun Yapaoheu, Lao People’s Revolutionary Party Central
Committee and Minister of Justice;
2. Saysengly, Minister to the Prime Minister’s Office;
3. Vongphet Saykeuyachongtoua, Lao People’s Revolutionary Party
Central Committee and President of the Federation of Lao Trade Union;
4. Tong Yeu Thor, Member of the Lao People’s Revolutionary Party
Central Committee and Vice President of Lao Front for National
Construction;
5. Laoly, Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Welfare; and
6. Ly Tou, Vice Minister of Education.

Several provincial Governors and among them Sombath Yialyher, Party
Secretary of Vientiane Capital.

Two Generals including one Police General and dozens of Director
General including Yaseng, Chief of Cabinet of the Ministry of Foreign
Affairs of Lao PDR.

***found even newer election results. so as of 2011 - Madame Pany Yathortou now holds the 5th most powerful position in laos (pretty sure she's the most powerful women politician) and M. General Asang Laoly now holds the 6th most powerful position (yes, there are other hmong generals besides vang pao).

It's a sad thing that many of those Hmong decided to change their names into Laotian like. Why can't they use their true names and not face discrimination nor prejudice?

The fact that they changed their names just to be accepted makes them nothing but puppets and would never be on the same level as any Lao Loun.

These guys basically are telling us that they changed their names because deep inside their heart they accepted that : Lao Loun > Lao Soung

The world ain't black and white..They'll be pioneers once they achieve prosperity for their own kind rather than the state.

I see some Hmong still live in the past and old belief. How pathetic. Nothing wrong with changing anyone last name or name to be unique.

The Hmong in Laos are treated like every one else who are a Lao citizen of Laos. Only Hmong in the U.S find it very prejudice and discriminated just because they are minority and are Hmong who has a bad history in the past in Laos. I believe it was Vang Pao and his followers fault for trying to stir up social problems among the Hmong and Lao people. Also I am against Vang Pao and his thugs periods.

^ you don't know anything about Hmong surnames and the significance of it. You think a name/surname is simply a name/surname. Maybe in your culture or whatever it doesn't have any meanings but you can't just assume the same

for another ethnicity or race.

Furthermore, it is a political motive for these name changes. That can only imply enviousness or subjugation.

Just because they are Hmong doesn't mean they have to follow the Hmong traditional ways. We called this method assimilation into a national society. And its not all about politic at all either.

clan names r very important aspect of Hmong tradition but I'm guessing changing the name is all part of assimilating, no harm done as long as they r proud to be hmong

I agree! At least you understood the modern concept of this assimilation. Their is nothing wrong with being Hmong in Laos since I know Lao in Laos accept them as apart of the greater Lao society. Also look at our neighbors. They are far ahead of Laos on Social ethnic nationalism and we still fighting over who or what ethnic is better. I also think it was Vang Pao for trying to separate the Hmong apart from those in Laos and the Lao people. Which is why we aren't really untied as one like the rest of our neighbors.

please don't bring vang pao into this

Following tradition is always part of how Hmong people define themselves from other ethnic groups. This is a trend all the way from China. The Hmong in America do not change their surnames. This is because they are Hmong Americans. Those Hmong in Laos that changed their surnames no longer follow the tradition and like you said, and are trying to assimilate themselves into the greater group, Lao and Lao alone. Threfore, they see themselves fully as Lao. How is this problematic? Well, there is still segregation and perhaps that is why they changed their surnames and names to conform to Lao ways. What freedom is that?

Just look at those Teochew Chinese that assimilated into Thai culture. They are no longer Chinese but Thai. You are proud of total assimilation huh? Does that also mean that you fully support the idea of assimilation and go against ethnic minorities? What if your people were not the majority, but part of a minority group? How would you feel? Like the Blacks of America during those days of slavery?

I think you are thinking a little too deep. The Hmong can still keep their last name in a traditional ways in Laos if they wanted too. But this is Laos and these Hmong-Lao are just in the process of full major assimilation among the greater Lao people to unite. Which I believe we are lacking that because their are some like the Hmong who seem to divide themselves among the majority rather then joining. This is the time for Laos to gain its nationalism not separation. Also if the Hmong don't like the idea they can move back to China and let the Chinese deal with Hmong migrate there.

Mung.

You don't understand. It is not all about trying to separate from the majority. My opinion is that those Hmong in Laos should be able to freely express their pride rather than having to change their names and surnames just to be accepted into Lao society.

If you were living in China would you change your surname to a Chinese surname just so that you feel like you belong and hide yourself among the people? You rather lose your heritage and assimilate just to be accepted? That's a disgrace.

Our ancestors didn't fight and die just to preserve our self identity and now we're suppose to simply give it up just like that just to be accepted while in other countries, it is not even necessary? You don't see no Hmong Henderson or Johnson in America do you? No. -__-

I said their is nothing wrong with keeping the original Hmong last name. I understand quite well. Maybe you should re-read what I said earlier?

And what was the point of this thread the first place anyways? Don't tell me this is another Hmong propaganda that the Hmong can never let go of the grudge. It's time to move on and get over it. And since Vang Pao is dead the war is over unless you reviving his legacy once again just to make things worst then they already are.

Maybe I should of said Vang Pao cult followers? I'm sure they are floating around spreading rumors among the Hmong community like always.

You don't seem to understand my point at all. The point is... why those Hmong changed their names and surnames to Laotian like names when they could be proud Lao-Hmong and still have their authentic names?

What is so hard about this question?

They changed their surnames and names to conform to Lao names because they want to be accepted into Lao society. Why should they need to do this? This is not rocket science come on now.

u can be quiet now

they really didn't 'change' their name, just conjoined it and were creative with it. it goes back farther than communist days to french colonial days. for example, some hmong leaders during french occupation:

Lo Bliayao (Lo clan, adult name - blia yao)
Faydang Lobliayao (Lo clan, adult name Fay Dang; keeps the full name of his father to honor him: Lobliayao)
Touby Lyfoung (Ly/Li/Lee clan, adult name Tou By; keeps the foung to honor his dad Ly Xia Foung)

now lets look at some of these current guys:

Madame Pany Yathortou (Yang clan, adult name Pa Ny; keeps Yathortou to honor her father Ya Thor Tou)
Chaleun Yapaoheu (Yang clan, adult name Cha Leun; keeps Yapaoheu to hononr his father Ya Pao Heu)
Vongphet Saykeuyachongtoua (Yang clan, adult name Say Keu; keeps Yachongtou to honor his father Ya Chong Tou; adopts lao name Vongphet)
Tong Yeu Thor (Thao clan, adult name Tong Yeu; hmong american style)

hopefully that clears things up a bit.

Lo Blia Yao, Touby Lyfoung, and Lo Fang Dang are all authentic Hmong names. NO french influence at all. Just a re-order of lastname and first name.

It is quite clear that those other Hmong conjoined Lao names as oppose to the aforementioned French era Hmong leaders. Like come on now, does Saykeuyachongtoua sound Hmong to you? It's just like those Chinese Thai. Their Chinese surnames are still present in their names just that they conjoined Thai names to conform to Thai.

Well I agree that they don't have to change their surname just to be accepted. But this is only a few Hmong in Laos does this and I'm sure neighboring country has a similar case about this too. It's not really about ethnic anymore in Laos. It's about gaining nationalism and unity for all of Laos as one natural citizen.

tsov tom nplog kuv xav muab koj ncaws ua luaj li os

Thank that's even clearer. I'm not sure why some Hmong here seem to have problem with assimilating into Lao society. But still changing their surname still doesn't discriminate against them from being accepted. Also the Lao government already made it clear that the Hmong are apart of the greater Lao society now and the future. Perhaps those oversea should wait and see how much peace their is before and after this. Gaining nationalism is the key for social and country unity for peace. Even the UN are helping in with the assimilation process of all ethnic Lao minority.

I know you talking about Lao. "Nplog" that is so racist.

it's not racist when we r the same race and it is not targeted to lao people but to a certain lao person

Sound very hypocritical to me. It is not racist towards us as a same race of people, but toward certain Lao person? OMG WTH!! What are you trying to say here?

it is not racist because we r both Asian and Asian is our race and i never targeted Lao people as a whole only that certain somebody

Well why is it that when we called you "Meo". The Hmong take it personally and offensively? Isn't it the same thing with the Hmong using "Nplog" to racially attack a Lao ppl as well?



Nplog & Meo seem to be some sort of a racial slur logistically.

nplog is just how we write it in our language, personally i don't care for the word meo it's just a word, if ur trying to make me mad off of it u can go ahead if that is what ur trying to accomplish, acoording to some lao there r two ways of writing meo one is for cat one follows the word miao of the name the hans call us

No I am not trying to make you mad or anything o.k? I just wanted to learn a bit more and be more understand on some of my personal curiosity on certain things.


It is also interesting to read what Vang pao followers has to say too and see if all the stories are the same. If not. Then I believe its all about making up stories as they go along with it and using Vang pao legacy and figure as a back up debate. I can tell you that some of these VP followers seem to not be on the same level, but has their own personal propaganda.

propaganda of what?

You know what I'm talking about. Them Vang pao followers spreading all kinds of propaganda every where. Also I read a couple of news articles that uses Laotian or Lao as a bad people while the Hmong are good peoplel on the news. Also I know there are Hmong organization who hire a White editor of the news to us this racial profile against the Lao people just to cover up Hmong bad reputation on the news articles. I'm sure not many Hmong knows about this. But it is actually for real!!! Which is why I am so piss off about it for the last 6 years!!!

like what? again it has nothing to do with racial profiling because we r both asian

Like murder case or robbery. But these news comes out here and their for several mouth or so. But then later on that website about that articles deleted it self. That's how I know it is a propaganda news. Also you cannot save or link that website either. strange isn't it?

specify, no link no proof

Well at this time I cannot. But if I do manage to get it again I will post it here.

sure

they are nothing.
they're Hmoob Nyablaj.

Depends on which side you're on obviously. If you're Hmong-Lao then these people are your leaders, if you'r Hmong-American or live outside Laos due to the whole war thing, then these ppl might be seen as your enemies, especially among the Hmong elders. Relations are improving over the years and they can only get better. As long as these leaders help improve Laos and her multiethnic citizens' lives or appear to be helping, all I can do is wish them luck. To me, they're kinda like Hmoob Nplog's Mee Moua, Cy Thao or Blong Xiong in which they work for the state, not just Hmong ppl. I know we dislike commies, but they seem to be representing those Hmong-Lao quite proudly...we just don't really hear 'bout them cuz they're Hmong commie leaders, lol.

Nplog is not a bad word. It is probably what your ancestors called themselves.

And your knowledge of Vang Pao is extremely biased. Also, you seem to favor the destruction of ethnic minorities and want everybody to become one. If that is the case, you should give up your identity and become Chinese. You wonder why the Hmong like to divide themselves among the majority? That is because you guys are like the ancient Chinese and the Christian missionaries that wished to destroy our customs, our roots, our name. If you acknowledge us and accept us for who we are, then the incorporation of the Hmong into your nation is not a problem. We have no problem calling ourselves Hmong Chinese, Hmong Nplog, Hmong Thai, etc., but if you want us to forget our name and die off like all those ancient tribes, then go fu-k yourself.

Also some people like to link assimilation to advancement and the keeping of one's customs to... "a state of not advancing". I find this idea to be extremely humorous.

Regarding the names of those Hmong officials, I do not mind as long as they remember that they are Hmong. However, I would prefer that their original names be incorporated into the Laotian society, instead of being "assimilated".

That's very ignorance comming from you. Laotian never called ourself Nplog since we no history or proof of it. So you cannot say our ancestor called ourself "probably" Nplog.

Also I can say the same thing about "Meo" that you're ancestor did used to referred themselves that too. Also Assimilation can also mean incorperating Hmong culture and people into the new ones. Also Hmong history in Laos has shown the Hmong where rather live among themselves in isolation rather then incorperating with the Lao mainstream like the rest of the ethnic minority. Which is why it was so easy for the U.S to used Hmong as a puppet at that time.

first, i also extend an apology for that ignorant comment from a fellow hmong brother. ignorance exists in all ethnics. i will say sincerely however, that 'nplog' is not a derogatory term. it has no meaning in the language. its just our name for laotians like 'suav' (shua) is for chinese and 'nyablaj' (nya-la) is for vietnamese.

second, i take offense at your hmong 'puppet' statement. since arriving in laos during the french occupation, we have fought for our own rights whenever they have been encroached. we fought against the french because of their excessive taxes, the japanese during their occupation of laos in wwii and the vietcong who were ravaging eastern laos where many hmong people had settled. maybe if the vietcong weren't being douchebags in eastern laos, we wouldn't have had reason to take up the american offer.

third, its better to be useful as a 'puppet' than to be useless. why didnt't the americans use the lao in this important theater? for that matter, why didn't the vietcong entrust the pathet lao to secure eastern laos? being the majority in the country, it would seem reasonable... the answer is that the royal lao and the pathet lao were useless and ineffective. the real fighting was between the hmong and the vietcong. the royal lao and pathet lao were backups who sat on the sidelines until the war was over. the pathet lao only came into power because the vietcong set them up. that's why as far as true puppeteering goes, its your pathet lao who are the puppets of hanoi.

Do you even know what Nplog mean? It is as what xaithoj have stated. To take offence at that word is pure ignorance. We call ourselves Hmong "Nplog" also.

When you call me a "Meo", are you calling me a cat or is it because you can't pronounce my name?


I find the word, assimilate, to be such a strong word. If you do not understand my reasoning for preferring incorporate over assimilate, then that is your problem. I am, after all, ignorant and do not wish to enlighten you on this matter.

And when you said "incorporating", did you mean assimilating? If your hearts were as pure and your arms as wide, then the incorporation of our people would have been no problem.

It was also easy for the Hmong to used as puppets for the communists. Joining either sides enabled opportunities. Do you honestly believe that we enjoy farming in the sun and remaining ignorant of the world?

You should learn how to identify ignorance. The word, "probably", is there for a reason.

Exactly my point. I don't see any Hmong in the US with surnames like, Anderson or Johnson. We keep our surnames strictly traditional because our surnames are not as simple as other ethnic groups where it can merely be a name. I'm not gonna go into the details because my point is already made clear.

Those Hmong people in Laos should be able to freely represent themselves as Hmong Lao and not just a "lao", but a Hmong Lao.

So you're saying that Lao Royal army were useless and lazy???? Again stop trying to make you're people look so good while at the same time acting innocent at the end. There are many Lao Royalist we fought and die for the country and the king. So you basically who are saying that Lao people are just useless and cannot fight? That is the most stereotyping and racial profile I have ever heard! And you know what? Don't even apologies for you're buddy since your a major hypercrite.

Meo doesn't mean Cat. LMAO It's the same meaning as Miao ethnic. But you Hmong just take it very racially and offensively because everything seem racist to you people.

Also Lao language is tonal language which can sound similar or the same with added words can mean something else. So don't take it personally if you don't know anything about Lao language. Anyways Hmong are racist anyways for all I care. And that' the fact.

Who cares? Why take this whole last name or surnames into a problematic issue???? I'm sure they are can freely change their name in all kinds of unique last and surnames they wanted too.

That's the reason why I'm asking if you are calling me a cat or not. lol

And I'm pretty sure I am aware that the word "Meo" derived from Miao before I asked you that question.
Are you not able to comprehend why I wrote what I wrote?

"The Viet Minh's People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) invaded northeastern Laos with 40,000 troops commanded by General Vo Nguyen Giap; included was a token force of 2,000 Pathet Lao led by Souphanouvong."

"On July 28, PAVN units attacked all along the North Vietnamese-Lao border. As they took ground from the Royal Lao Army, they moved in Pathet Lao as occupation troops. Poor battle performance by the RLA seemed to verify the need for further training; the RLA outnumbered the attackers, but still gave ground."

"On 9 March, the communists captured the only road junction between Luang Prabang and Vientiane. When RLA troops were ordered to counterattack and retake the junction, they dropped their weapons and ran. Special Forces Team Moon was assigned as advisors to the RLA unit."

"By February, the Royal Lao Government's hold on Nam Tha seemed tenuous enough that it was reinforced by the paratroopers of GM 15. That gave a numerical edge to the defenders and should have guaranteed Nam Tha's retention. The presence of armed American Special Forces advisors should have stiffened them with military expertise. In May, a PAVN assault broke the RLG forces and routed them. The Royalist soldiers fled southward across the entirety of northwestern Laos into Thailand, a retreat of over a hundred miles. Faced with this fiasco, the U. S. forced the RLG into a coalition with the Pathet Lao and Kong Le's Forces Armee Neutrale."

"The truce supposedly went into effect the first week of May, but was repeatedly breached by the communists. With the Royal Lao Army ineffective, the Hmong guerrillas were left as the only opposition to the communists."

all quotes from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laotian_Civil_War

ill say it again, the RLA was ineffective. the Pathet Lao were a token force that was entrusted to garrisoning and was put in minimal combat. the real war in laos was between the hmong and the north vietnamese.