China Rebuffs Hopes It Might Help Bail Out Europe
SEPTEMBER 25, 2011, 3:21 P.M. ET
By BOB DAVIS
WASHINGTON—China to Europe: Don't expect a bailout from us.
That was the message delivered by a number of Chinese officials during meetings at the International Monetary Fund, where China was widely seen as an answer to the euro zone's problems, either as a purchaser of European debt or as a country that could further goose its economic growth rate.
"We can't just go save someone," said Gao Xiqing, president of China Investment Corp., China's huge sovereign wealth fund. "We're not saviors. We have to save ourselves," he said at a weekend panel discussion
If Europe decided to issue euro-zone bonds—debt guaranteed by all euro-zone members—CIC would consider becoming a purchaser, he said afterwards. "If it has a risk profile that fits into our allocation, we'll buy some," Mr. Gao said. "But don't expect us to buy more than our risk appetite would take."
That appeared to rule out CIC buying debt from Italy, Greece and other troubled euro-zone nations that are having the toughest time finding buyers.
Chinese central banker Zhou Xiaochuan was just as adamant that China shouldn't be expected to boost its growth rate in an unsustainable fashion to help out the global economy.
Currently China is growing at roughly a 9% annual pace. He said that growth of somewhere between 8% and 10% was a "reasonable expectation."
"Some people may have an irrational hope that the higher the growth, the better," he said at a Saturday news conference. But growth rates of 15% or higher—"that's not realistic," he said.
During the 2008-2009 financial crisis, China boosted spending by near 11 trillion yuan (about $1.7 trillion in today's dollars), which helped keep its growth above 9%, and powered the purchase of imports, particularly commodities. But another big stimulus plan is unlikely. That's because China sees inflation as a bigger threat than inadequate growth, and also because China worries that a large percentage of the loans made during the stimulus surge may go bad, saddling the government with a debt problem.
Mr. Zhou, governor of the People's Bank of China, also gave no indication that the crisis would lead to a change in China's currency policy. Since it allowed the yuan to float somewhat in June 2010, the yuan has appreciated at a rate of about 5.5% a year against the dollar.
IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde urged China to let its currency strengthen more swiftly as a way to boost imports from the rest of the world. "A little bit of currency appreciation might help," she said.
At the very least, Mr. Zhou said, China wasn't likely to halt the rise of its currency as it did during the 2008 crisis, when it feared that a stronger yuan would further cut into exports.
He said 2008 was a special case where "international considerations may have let us put some calculations in our policy making." Current economic woes weren't of that magnitude, he said.
Write to Bob Davis at bob.davis@wsj.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...1514658060.html
Full Version: China Rebuffs Hopes It Might Help Bail Out Europe
Good I'm glad. All these westerners pointing fingers at China and telling them to stop oppressing "chinese people" and stop butting into other people's affairs - now they WANT China to disregard their own people and butt into European problems?!
China doesn't have a God complex unlike westerners.
China doesn't have a God complex unlike westerners.
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Sep 25 2011, 02:51 PM) 
China Rebuffs Hopes It Might Help Bail Out Europe
SEPTEMBER 25, 2011, 3:21 P.M. ET
By BOB DAVIS
WASHINGTON—China to Europe: Don't expect a bailout from us.
That was the message delivered by a number of Chinese officials during meetings at the International Monetary Fund, where China was widely seen as an answer to the euro zone's problems, either as a purchaser of European debt or as a country that could further goose its economic growth rate.
"We can't just go save someone," said Gao Xiqing, president of China Investment Corp., China's huge sovereign wealth fund. "We're not saviors. We have to save ourselves," he said at a weekend panel discussion
If Europe decided to issue euro-zone bonds—debt guaranteed by all euro-zone members—CIC would consider becoming a purchaser, he said afterwards. "If it has a risk profile that fits into our allocation, we'll buy some," Mr. Gao said. "But don't expect us to buy more than our risk appetite would take."
That appeared to rule out CIC buying debt from Italy, Greece and other troubled euro-zone nations that are having the toughest time finding buyers.
Chinese central banker Zhou Xiaochuan was just as adamant that China shouldn't be expected to boost its growth rate in an unsustainable fashion to help out the global economy.
Currently China is growing at roughly a 9% annual pace. He said that growth of somewhere between 8% and 10% was a "reasonable expectation."
"Some people may have an irrational hope that the higher the growth, the better," he said at a Saturday news conference. But growth rates of 15% or higher—"that's not realistic," he said.
During the 2008-2009 financial crisis, China boosted spending by near 11 trillion yuan (about $1.7 trillion in today's dollars), which helped keep its growth above 9%, and powered the purchase of imports, particularly commodities. But another big stimulus plan is unlikely. That's because China sees inflation as a bigger threat than inadequate growth, and also because China worries that a large percentage of the loans made during the stimulus surge may go bad, saddling the government with a debt problem.
Mr. Zhou, governor of the People's Bank of China, also gave no indication that the crisis would lead to a change in China's currency policy. Since it allowed the yuan to float somewhat in June 2010, the yuan has appreciated at a rate of about 5.5% a year against the dollar.
IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde urged China to let its currency strengthen more swiftly as a way to boost imports from the rest of the world. "A little bit of currency appreciation might help," she said.
At the very least, Mr. Zhou said, China wasn't likely to halt the rise of its currency as it did during the 2008 crisis, when it feared that a stronger yuan would further cut into exports.
He said 2008 was a special case where "international considerations may have let us put some calculations in our policy making." Current economic woes weren't of that magnitude, he said.
Write to Bob Davis at bob.davis@wsj.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...1514658060.html
SEPTEMBER 25, 2011, 3:21 P.M. ET
By BOB DAVIS
WASHINGTON—China to Europe: Don't expect a bailout from us.
That was the message delivered by a number of Chinese officials during meetings at the International Monetary Fund, where China was widely seen as an answer to the euro zone's problems, either as a purchaser of European debt or as a country that could further goose its economic growth rate.
"We can't just go save someone," said Gao Xiqing, president of China Investment Corp., China's huge sovereign wealth fund. "We're not saviors. We have to save ourselves," he said at a weekend panel discussion
If Europe decided to issue euro-zone bonds—debt guaranteed by all euro-zone members—CIC would consider becoming a purchaser, he said afterwards. "If it has a risk profile that fits into our allocation, we'll buy some," Mr. Gao said. "But don't expect us to buy more than our risk appetite would take."
That appeared to rule out CIC buying debt from Italy, Greece and other troubled euro-zone nations that are having the toughest time finding buyers.
Chinese central banker Zhou Xiaochuan was just as adamant that China shouldn't be expected to boost its growth rate in an unsustainable fashion to help out the global economy.
Currently China is growing at roughly a 9% annual pace. He said that growth of somewhere between 8% and 10% was a "reasonable expectation."
"Some people may have an irrational hope that the higher the growth, the better," he said at a Saturday news conference. But growth rates of 15% or higher—"that's not realistic," he said.
During the 2008-2009 financial crisis, China boosted spending by near 11 trillion yuan (about $1.7 trillion in today's dollars), which helped keep its growth above 9%, and powered the purchase of imports, particularly commodities. But another big stimulus plan is unlikely. That's because China sees inflation as a bigger threat than inadequate growth, and also because China worries that a large percentage of the loans made during the stimulus surge may go bad, saddling the government with a debt problem.
Mr. Zhou, governor of the People's Bank of China, also gave no indication that the crisis would lead to a change in China's currency policy. Since it allowed the yuan to float somewhat in June 2010, the yuan has appreciated at a rate of about 5.5% a year against the dollar.
IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde urged China to let its currency strengthen more swiftly as a way to boost imports from the rest of the world. "A little bit of currency appreciation might help," she said.
At the very least, Mr. Zhou said, China wasn't likely to halt the rise of its currency as it did during the 2008 crisis, when it feared that a stronger yuan would further cut into exports.
He said 2008 was a special case where "international considerations may have let us put some calculations in our policy making." Current economic woes weren't of that magnitude, he said.
Write to Bob Davis at bob.davis@wsj.com
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...1514658060.html
You can see how China will get blamed either way. If it "helps out", it's because of its imperialistic impulses to secure its nefarious influence; if it doesn't, well, it's the same, or perhaps it's isolationist, maybe even a threat to global world economy, or may even wish the EU to drown etc.
No, charity begins at home - i.e. Europeans should help themselves, and China should help itself.
Like history lessons always go - if you want to change the world, don't be surprised one day it changes you.
QUOTE (richasiankid @ Sep 25 2011, 02:35 PM)
You can see how China will get blamed either way. If it "helps out", it's because of its imperialistic impulses to secure its nefarious influence; if it doesn't, well, it's the same, or perhaps it's isolationist, maybe even a threat to global world economy, or may even wish the EU to drown etc.
No, charity begins at home - i.e. Europeans should help themselves, and China should help itself.
Like history lessons always go - if you want to change the world, don't be surprised one day it changes you.
No, charity begins at home - i.e. Europeans should help themselves, and China should help itself.
Like history lessons always go - if you want to change the world, don't be surprised one day it changes you.
THere's no winning with westerners. Either way, China will get blamed.
I think China is better off going into S.E.A especially its own back yard for more secure business and investment in the future. If not now then those country from West will take advantage over those country in the future later. It's a wise choice for any leader within China grasp.
give them loans with exorbitant interests and institute economic governance. they need to taste some fo their own medicine.
What China has done for them is very generous already. Would they have done the same for China? I doubit it. They would have just left China to rot. Just look at what happened to the former USSR when they collapsed. The West hardly helped and if they weren't oil rich they would have been stuck in the gut hole.
QUOTE (CapeFear @ Sep 25 2011, 07:44 PM)
What China has done for them is very generous already. Would they have done the same for China? I doubit it. They would have just left China to rot. Just look at what happened to the former USSR when they collapsed. The West hardly helped and if they weren't oil rich they would have been stuck in the gut hole.
When China was facing collapse during the cultural revolution, the West not only didn't help, but made it worse. They put sanctions on China when they were suffering the most. This led to millions of Chinese people being starved to death.
China could put military bases in Cuba/Venezuela/Bolivia/Iran and make it worse for the west. But China always takes the high road in order to keep peace.
What does China gain from bailing out Europe does any one know????
QUOTE (devils666 @ Sep 25 2011, 07:52 PM)
When China was facing collapse during the cultural revolution, the West not only didn't help, but made it worse. They put sanctions on China when they were suffering the most. This led to millions of Chinese people being starved to death.
China could put military bases in Cuba/Venezuela/Bolivia/Iran and make it worse for the west. But China always takes the high road in order to keep peace.
China could put military bases in Cuba/Venezuela/Bolivia/Iran and make it worse for the west. But China always takes the high road in order to keep peace.
that would amount to declaration of war in the western perspective.
the debt crisis is going to test the camaraderie of euporean nations.
China is the Best, #1 in barbarian management.
You think China (or the US for that matter) wants to see a United State of Europe ? If Euro-zone countries survive this massive test of credibility and political unity (which is non-existent at this period), then they will eventually for the USE (United States of Europe)... which would rival US, China, and India on global power influence.
China, should pay German politicians to disagree with bailing out lazy Southern European kins who are not competitive, who spend money, and do not work hard to achieve their success like Germans and Chinese.
China, should play the market so that extreme short fall of confidence not only hits Greece, but other PIIGS countries.
Barbarian management, that how it kept Mongol invasion by ensuring no Genghis Khan unfiied their tribe - China should ensure the same with playing extreme nationalism within Europe off each other.
Barbarian management.
You think China (or the US for that matter) wants to see a United State of Europe ? If Euro-zone countries survive this massive test of credibility and political unity (which is non-existent at this period), then they will eventually for the USE (United States of Europe)... which would rival US, China, and India on global power influence.
China, should pay German politicians to disagree with bailing out lazy Southern European kins who are not competitive, who spend money, and do not work hard to achieve their success like Germans and Chinese.
China, should play the market so that extreme short fall of confidence not only hits Greece, but other PIIGS countries.
Barbarian management, that how it kept Mongol invasion by ensuring no Genghis Khan unfiied their tribe - China should ensure the same with playing extreme nationalism within Europe off each other.
Barbarian management.
QUOTE (SengokuJedai @ Sep 25 2011, 10:03 PM)
China is the Best, #1 in barbarian management.
You think China (or the US for that matter) wants to see a United State of Europe ? If Euro-zone countries survive this massive test of credibility and political unity (which is non-existent at this period), then they will eventually for the USE (United States of Europe)... which would rival US, China, and India on global power influence.
China, should pay German politicians to disagree with bailing out lazy Southern European kins who are not competitive, who spend money, and do not work hard to achieve their success like Germans and Chinese.
China, should play the market so that extreme short fall of confidence not only hits Greece, but other PIIGS countries.
Barbarian management, that how it kept Mongol invasion by ensuring no Genghis Khan unfiied their tribe - China should ensure the same with playing extreme nationalism within Europe off each other.
Barbarian management.
You think China (or the US for that matter) wants to see a United State of Europe ? If Euro-zone countries survive this massive test of credibility and political unity (which is non-existent at this period), then they will eventually for the USE (United States of Europe)... which would rival US, China, and India on global power influence.
China, should pay German politicians to disagree with bailing out lazy Southern European kins who are not competitive, who spend money, and do not work hard to achieve their success like Germans and Chinese.
China, should play the market so that extreme short fall of confidence not only hits Greece, but other PIIGS countries.
Barbarian management, that how it kept Mongol invasion by ensuring no Genghis Khan unfiied their tribe - China should ensure the same with playing extreme nationalism within Europe off each other.
Barbarian management.
the EU will simply implode before they reach the super-power status. there's been a rise of far-right wing nationalism in europe recently, many people are sick of the undemocratic and corupt dealings of the EU and most importantly europe cannot successfully come under single currency or single economic control because member states have varying levels of productivity (nobody in their right mind would assume that the german economy is compatible with the greek one). on top of that u have the whole islamic caliphate aspiration going on from the muslim extremists...europe can never be united like america or china unless it becomes totalitarian or islamic. simple as that.
good read
This site posts a different POV, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors..., the US is in worse dire straits:
http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-57-is-availa...sets_a7640.html
China ought to position itself better in terms of negotiating for greater say in global affairs. Sadly, as Russia proves, Might makes Right.
http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-57-is-availa...sets_a7640.html
China ought to position itself better in terms of negotiating for greater say in global affairs. Sadly, as Russia proves, Might makes Right.
Russia was a one-legged military superpower that ended up being an economic basketball. A first world military built on a third world economy.
It's not exactly the model that China wants to admire and respect.
It's not exactly the model that China wants to admire and respect.
Now the imperialists are begging the sick man of Asia they piled their opium and greed on,either way if China buys debt then people will become paranoid and think China will take over them,if China doesn't buy and the Eurozone collapses it will impact China's economy negatively.
We see the word: "Global responsibility" and the need for China to live up as a "responsible global member" buy purchasing bond issuances from insolvent nations.
First off, China saved money, and practiced disciplined fiscal responsibility, and most importantly, tirelessly increased our productivity, performance, and competitiveness to earn the surplus capital in our wallets today.
Second off, Southern Europeans never deserved low interest rates of Eurozone to begin with, since they were debt-ladened, poorly competitively, and lazy unlike their German and Chinese counterparts.
Third, if "Global Responsibility" means to help out Western interest, then the rules of responsibility will be defined by Chinese, not Anglo-Saxon dominated world order.
Fourth, Europeans should get their house in order before preaching about "global responsibility" - we Chinese won't be guilt into help insolvent nations - it's like throwing good money after bad money.
First off, China saved money, and practiced disciplined fiscal responsibility, and most importantly, tirelessly increased our productivity, performance, and competitiveness to earn the surplus capital in our wallets today.
Second off, Southern Europeans never deserved low interest rates of Eurozone to begin with, since they were debt-ladened, poorly competitively, and lazy unlike their German and Chinese counterparts.
Third, if "Global Responsibility" means to help out Western interest, then the rules of responsibility will be defined by Chinese, not Anglo-Saxon dominated world order.
Fourth, Europeans should get their house in order before preaching about "global responsibility" - we Chinese won't be guilt into help insolvent nations - it's like throwing good money after bad money.
QUOTE (SengokuJedai @ Sep 25 2011, 11:03 PM)
China is the Best, #1 in barbarian management.
You think China (or the US for that matter) wants to see a United State of Europe ? If Euro-zone countries survive this massive test of credibility and political unity (which is non-existent at this period), then they will eventually for the USE (United States of Europe)... which would rival US, China, and India on global power influence.
China, should pay German politicians to disagree with bailing out lazy Southern European kins who are not competitive, who spend money, and do not work hard to achieve their success like Germans and Chinese.
China, should play the market so that extreme short fall of confidence not only hits Greece, but other PIIGS countries.
Barbarian management, that how it kept Mongol invasion by ensuring no Genghis Khan unfiied their tribe - China should ensure the same with playing extreme nationalism within Europe off each other.
Barbarian management.
You think China (or the US for that matter) wants to see a United State of Europe ? If Euro-zone countries survive this massive test of credibility and political unity (which is non-existent at this period), then they will eventually for the USE (United States of Europe)... which would rival US, China, and India on global power influence.
China, should pay German politicians to disagree with bailing out lazy Southern European kins who are not competitive, who spend money, and do not work hard to achieve their success like Germans and Chinese.
China, should play the market so that extreme short fall of confidence not only hits Greece, but other PIIGS countries.
Barbarian management, that how it kept Mongol invasion by ensuring no Genghis Khan unfiied their tribe - China should ensure the same with playing extreme nationalism within Europe off each other.
Barbarian management.
In a way the US and West are playing this same game with China at least in the court of public opinion via the media with Uyghurs and Tibetans. And if China were to play barbarian management in the US, it should explicitly support La Raza and eventual peoplehood of Hispanics in the SouthWest part of the United States. Yet it doesn't.
BTW I might also note on a slightly different point America history itself has been rather murderous to begin with. Take one example, look at the reduction of Indian tribes in the state of Texas in history:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
QUOTE (richasiankid @ Sep 27 2011, 04:52 PM)
In a way the US and West are playing this same game with China at least in the court of public opinion via the media with Uyghurs and Tibetans. And if China were to play barbarian management in the US, it should explicitly support La Raza and eventual peoplehood of Hispanics in the SouthWest part of the United States. Yet it doesn't.
BTW I might also note on a slightly different point America history itself has been rather murderous to begin with. Take one example, look at the reduction of Indian tribes in the state of Texas in history:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
BTW I might also note on a slightly different point America history itself has been rather murderous to begin with. Take one example, look at the reduction of Indian tribes in the state of Texas in history:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
the typical american will respond saying that they were wiped out due to disease and their own inter tribal wars
QUOTE (machpunch777 @ Sep 27 2011, 07:56 PM)
the typical american will respond saying that they were wiped out due to disease and their own inter tribal wars
The typical American will respond by shouting
FREE TIBET! FREE UIGHERS!
QUOTE (machpunch777 @ Sep 27 2011, 08:56 PM)
the typical american will respond saying that they were wiped out due to disease and their own inter tribal wars
It would make sense, they had no resistance to typhus, measles, influenza, bubonic plague, cholera, malaria, tuberculosis, mumps, yellow fever, and pertussis which were all new diseases. Native populations only stopped declining with the invention of vaccination, and if we go with the hypothesis that white people wanted to kill all the natives, they would never have done vaccination, and there would be no natives at all like negritos of SE Asia.
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