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tangawizi
Paper Tigers
What happens to all the Asian-American overachievers when the test-taking ends?

By Wesley Yang Published May 8, 2011


Wesley Yang
(Photo: Marco Grob. Grooming by Reneé Majour for Orlando Pita T3/Jump.)

Sometimes I’ll glimpse my reflection in a window and feel astonished by what I see. Jet-black hair. Slanted eyes. A pancake-flat surface of yellow-and-green-toned skin. An expression that is nearly reptilian in its impassivity. I’ve contrived to think of this face as the equal in beauty to any other. But what I feel in these moments is its strangeness to me. It’s my face. I can’t disclaim it. But what does it have to do with me?

Millions of Americans must feel estranged from their own faces. But every self-estranged individual is estranged in his own way. I, for instance, am the child of Korean immigrants, but I do not speak my parents’ native tongue. I have never called my elders by the proper honorific, “big brother” or “big sister.” I have never dated a Korean woman. I don’t have a Korean friend. Though I am an immigrant, I have never wanted to strive like one.

You could say that I am, in the gently derisive parlance of Asian-Americans, a banana or a Twinkie (yellow on the outside, white on the inside). But while I don’t believe our roots necessarily define us, I do believe there are racially inflected assumptions wired into our neural circuitry that we use to sort through the sea of faces we confront. And although I am in most respects devoid of Asian characteristics, I do have an Asian face.

Here is what I sometimes suspect my face signifies to other Americans: an invisible person, barely distinguishable from a mass of faces that resemble it. A conspicuous person standing apart from the crowd and yet devoid of any individuality. An icon of so much that the culture pretends to honor but that it in fact patronizes and exploits. Not just people “who are good at math” and play the violin, but a mass of stifled, repressed, abused, conformist quasi-robots who simply do not matter, socially or culturally.

I’ve always been of two minds about this sequence of stereotypes. On the one hand, it offends me greatly that anyone would think to apply them to me, or to anyone else, simply on the basis of facial characteristics. On the other hand, it also seems to me that there are a lot of Asian people to whom they apply.

Let me summarize my feelings toward Asian values: fu-k filial piety. fu-k grade-grubbing. fu-k Ivy League mania. fu-k deference to authority. fu-k humility and hard work. fu-k harmonious relations. fu-k sacrificing for the future. fu-k earnest, striving middle-class servility.

I understand the reasons Asian parents have raised a generation of children this way. Doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer: These are good jobs open to whoever works hard enough. What could be wrong with that pursuit? Asians graduate from college at a rate higher than any other ethnic group in America, including whites. They earn a higher median family income than any other ethnic group in America, including whites. This is a stage in a triumphal narrative, and it is a narrative that is much shorter than many remember. Two thirds of the roughly 14 million Asian-Americans are foreign-born. There were less than 39,000 people of Korean descent living in America in 1970, when my elder brother was born. There are around 1 million today.

Asian-American success is typically taken to ratify the American Dream and to prove that minorities can make it in this country without handouts. Still, an undercurrent of racial panic always accompanies the consideration of Asians, and all the more so as China becomes the destination for our industrial base and the banker controlling our burgeoning debt. But if the armies of Chinese factory workers who make our fast fashion and iPads terrify us, and if the collective mass of high-­achieving Asian-American students arouse an anxiety about the laxity of American parenting, what of the Asian-American who obeyed everything his parents told him? Does this person really scare anyone?

Earlier this year, the publication of Amy Chua’s Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother incited a collective airing out of many varieties of race-based hysteria. But absent from the millions of words written in response to the book was any serious consideration of whether Asian-Americans were in fact taking over this country. If it is true that they are collectively dominating in elite high schools and universities, is it also true that Asian-Americans are dominating in the real world? My strong suspicion was that this was not so, and that the reasons would not be hard to find. If we are a collective juggernaut that inspires such awe and fear, why does it seem that so many Asians are so readily perceived to be, as I myself have felt most of my life, the products of a timid culture, easily pushed around by more assertive people, and thus basically invisible?
elleX0
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 5 2011, 04:43 PM) *
Paper Tigers
What happens to all the Asian-American overachievers when the test-taking ends?

By Wesley Yang Published May 8, 2011


Wesley Yang
(Photo: Marco Grob. Grooming by Reneé Majour for Orlando Pita T3/Jump.)

Sometimes I’ll glimpse my reflection in a window and feel astonished by what I see. Jet-black hair. Slanted eyes. A pancake-flat surface of yellow-and-green-toned skin. An expression that is nearly reptilian in its impassivity. I’ve contrived to think of this face as the equal in beauty to any other. But what I feel in these moments is its strangeness to me. It’s my face. I can’t disclaim it. But what does it have to do with me?

Millions of Americans must feel estranged from their own faces. But every self-estranged individual is estranged in his own way. I, for instance, am the child of Korean immigrants, but I do not speak my parents’ native tongue. I have never called my elders by the proper honorific, “big brother” or “big sister.” I have never dated a Korean woman. I don’t have a Korean friend. Though I am an immigrant, I have never wanted to strive like one.

You could say that I am, in the gently derisive parlance of Asian-Americans, a banana or a Twinkie (yellow on the outside, white on the inside). But while I don’t believe our roots necessarily define us, I do believe there are racially inflected assumptions wired into our neural circuitry that we use to sort through the sea of faces we confront. And although I am in most respects devoid of Asian characteristics, I do have an Asian face.

Here is what I sometimes suspect my face signifies to other Americans: an invisible person, barely distinguishable from a mass of faces that resemble it. A conspicuous person standing apart from the crowd and yet devoid of any individuality. An icon of so much that the culture pretends to honor but that it in fact patronizes and exploits. Not just people “who are good at math” and play the violin, but a mass of stifled, repressed, abused, conformist quasi-robots who simply do not matter, socially or culturally.

I’ve always been of two minds about this sequence of stereotypes. On the one hand, it offends me greatly that anyone would think to apply them to me, or to anyone else, simply on the basis of facial characteristics. On the other hand, it also seems to me that there are a lot of Asian people to whom they apply.

Let me summarize my feelings toward Asian values: fu-k filial piety. fu-k grade-grubbing. fu-k Ivy League mania. fu-k deference to authority. fu-k humility and hard work. fu-k harmonious relations. fu-k sacrificing for the future. fu-k earnest, striving middle-class servility.

I understand the reasons Asian parents have raised a generation of children this way. Doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer: These are good jobs open to whoever works hard enough. What could be wrong with that pursuit? Asians graduate from college at a rate higher than any other ethnic group in America, including whites. They earn a higher median family income than any other ethnic group in America, including whites. This is a stage in a triumphal narrative, and it is a narrative that is much shorter than many remember. Two thirds of the roughly 14 million Asian-Americans are foreign-born. There were less than 39,000 people of Korean descent living in America in 1970, when my elder brother was born. There are around 1 million today.

Asian-American success is typically taken to ratify the American Dream and to prove that minorities can make it in this country without handouts. Still, an undercurrent of racial panic always accompanies the consideration of Asians, and all the more so as China becomes the destination for our industrial base and the banker controlling our burgeoning debt. But if the armies of Chinese factory workers who make our fast fashion and iPads terrify us, and if the collective mass of high-­achieving Asian-American students arouse an anxiety about the laxity of American parenting, what of the Asian-American who obeyed everything his parents told him? Does this person really scare anyone?

Earlier this year, the publication of Amy Chua’s Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother incited a collective airing out of many varieties of race-based hysteria. But absent from the millions of words written in response to the book was any serious consideration of whether Asian-Americans were in fact taking over this country. If it is true that they are collectively dominating in elite high schools and universities, is it also true that Asian-Americans are dominating in the real world? My strong suspicion was that this was not so, and that the reasons would not be hard to find. If we are a collective juggernaut that inspires such awe and fear, why does it seem that so many Asians are so readily perceived to be, as I myself have felt most of my life, the products of a timid culture, easily pushed around by more assertive people, and thus basically invisible?

That is INFERIORITY COMPLEX, through lack of self worth.
tangawizi
Do u think the authoritarian style of upbringing (a.k.a. Tiger Mom tactics) is fundamentally the cause of these inferiority complexes? It's a syndrome found not only amongst asians, but also africans and any ethnic family that emphasizes authoritarian style upbringing.

How did your family bring you up? Authoritarian or a democratic consultative style?? please discuss... biggthumpup.gif
elleX0
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 6 2011, 06:19 AM) *
Do u think the authoritarian style of upbringing (a.k.a. Tiger Mom tactics) is fundamentally the cause of these inferiority complexes? It's a syndrome found not only amongst asians, but also africans and any ethnic family that emphasizes authoritarian style upbringing.

How did your family bring you up? Authoritarian or a democratic consultative style?? please discuss... biggthumpup.gif

The Oriental family hierarchy and discipline is well known, and goes back to the time of Confucius. It has an effect on the Psyche.
chutzpah
My goodness such self loathing coupled with a huge chip on Yang's shoulder for being born Asian. Mmmm reminds me very much of Tanga's self loathing for being Chinese. Democratic consultative style indeed!
elleX0
Let me illustrate how a mind is freed from inhibitions.

QUOTE
So summarising, Steve Jobs was the son of Abdullah John Jandali, obviously a Syrian Christian with a name like John. So he was uninhibited with Islam. His mother, Joanne Carole Schieble was a German-Swiss Catholic, a Christian.

Steve Jobs was born out of wedlock so he was adopted by an Armenian couple, Paul and Clara Jobs, and most Armenians are Christians. They loved Steve as their own and gave him all the love and assurances he needed as he grew up. He was not inhibited with the Laws of Allah.

Steve Jobs thus was the genius to pioneer the Mackintosh Computer, the Mac. There can be no credit given to Islamic influence. But credit can be given to the love , freedom and fostering he received from the Jobs, Armenian Christians.
tangawizi
Funny if he was so influenced by Armenian Christians how come he studied Zen and had his roshi officiate his wedding instead of the priest???? Hmmmmm........ taqqiya at work??? His biological dad was Muslim.. oooooooh horrors!!! icon_rolleyes.gif
http://www.cultofmac.com/79599/how-steve-j...e-the-new-sony/


For those a little less jaundiced, Jobs was a practitioner of Soto Zen who took it seriously and when he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer...which has no cure ...he used it as an opportunity to meditate on death and his own mortality.

A talk well worth listening to for those dogma-obsessive and check out the motive why Steve Job's parents gave him up for adoption:


Steve Jobs Stanford Commencement Speech 2005

Hare Krishna temples...
elleX0
QUOTE
No, Steve Jobs is not a Jew. The brilliant visionary genius, who was Apple CEO until resigning today, "practices Buddhism." He was born to Catholic and Muslim biological parents, Joanne Carole Schieble and Abdulfattah John Jandali, and was adopted and brought up by Christian (Armenian) parents, Paul and Clara Jobs, according to sources. Jobs was appointed [...]
chutzpah
elleXO, of course Zen be it satay, soto or curry is not really organized religion now is it? It could also be the roti canai variety for all you know embarassedlaugh.gif

Dogmatic and jaundiced? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! She holds and peddles her "jaundiced dogmatic" belief ad nauseam. At least you and I don't insist and peddle our faith the way she does. What a hypocrite!
chutzpah
Source: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/10/how-we-s...steve-jobs.html

How we should remember Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs, the co-founder and (until very recently) the Chief Executive Officer of Apple, died yesterday at the young age of 56. He is being universally remembered and hailed as a creative and entrepreneurial talent of the first rank, earning numerous mainstream media comparisons to other giants of American business like Rockefeller, Edison and Henry Ford. In short, he was the consummate genius that only a free, non-Muslim society could conjure up.

Steve Jobs' brilliant life and career should always remind all of us that people can not reach even a small fraction of their potential under the shadow of Islam. It is mainly in the free, democratic Western World where most of the world's creative and inventive talents are born or choose to make their homes. It is mainly in the West where one finds, even now, the freedom to innovate, to pursue your dreams, and to reap failure or success based primarily on your merits and abilities. Freedom nurtures genius and ingenuity; totalitarian creeds destroy them.

Societies that lack fundamental freedoms and true tolerance for gifted individuals -- namely, Islamic societies -- are remarkably consistent in failing to produce noteworthy human capital or talent. The rare exceptions we find to this maxim -- the ones who manage to escape the death grip that Islam has on the minds, souls and psyches of so many -- prove this rule all too well. The world would have been much poorer if Steve Jobs had not been blessed with being born in a free society, in America; a society that allowed and encouraged him to reach for the apex of achievement in any field he so chose. What if Steve Jobs had had the misfortune to have been born in a place like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan? What would have become of his talents then? Would the world had been for the better or worse for it?

Let us take this time to mourn and remember the late, great Steve Jobs, but let us now especially remember the lesson that his life teaches us: freedom of the individual is one of the most important gifts imaginable to the human race. The human enterprise cannot and will not progress nor succeed without it.
tangawizi
Certainly, neither Judaism nor Islam nor Christianity influenced his thinking, he was always off on an exploration into the world of mental culture and contemplative traditions in India and Japan as well as LSD... these were the traditions that made him stand out from his contemporaries like Bill Gates and et al:

Not peddling any faith like you here, I am just like you, posting newspaper facts. icon_wink.gif

QUOTE
Steve Jobs' Mantra Rooted in Buddhism: Focus and Simplicity
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES | ABC News – Thu, Oct 6, 2011

Long before Steve Jobs became the CEO of Apple and one of the most recognizable figures on the planet, he took a unconventional route to find himself -- a spiritual journey that influenced every step of an unconventional career.

Jobs, who died Wednesday at the age of 56 of pancreatic cancer, was the biological child of two unmarried academics who only consented to signing the papers if the adoptive parents sent him to college.
His adoptive parents sent a young Jobs off to Reed College, an expensive liberal arts school in Oregon, but he dropped out and went to India in the 1973 in search of enlightenment.

Jobs and his college friend Daniel Kottke, who later worked for him at Apple, visited Neem Karoli Baba at his Kainchi Ashram. He returned home to California a Buddhist, complete with a shaved head and traditional Indian clothing and a philosophy that may have shaped much of his corporate values.
Later, he was often seen walking barefoot in his trademark blue jeans around the office and reportedly often said that those around him didn't fully understand his way of thinking.

"I wouldn't say Steve Jobs was a practicing Buddhist," said Robert Thurman, a professor of Buddhist studies at Columbia University, who met Jobs and his "Tibetan buddies" in the 1980s in San Francisco.
"But he was just as creative and generous and went outside the box in the way that he looked to Eastern mental discipline and the Zen vision, which is a compelling one."

"He was a real explorer and very much to be mourned and too young at 56," said Thurman. "We will remember the design simplicity of his products. That simplicity is a Zen idea."
Thurman met Jobs in San Francisco in the 1980s with Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart and actor Richard Gere. The discussion was about Tibet.

"It was before the Dalai Lama, and he was very sympathetic and had advice for the Tibetans," he said. "But he was into his own thing and didn't become a major player."

Jobs used Dalai Lama in one of Apple's most famous ad campaigns: "Think Different."

"He put them up all over Hong Kong," Thurman said of the computer ads. "But then the Chinese communists squawked very violently and as my son says, 'He had to think again.'"

Zen Buddhist monk Kobun Chino Otogawa married Jobs and his now widow, Laurene Powell, in 1991.
Jobs could have just as easily taken his philosophy from the hippie movement of the 1960s. The Whole Earth Catalogue was his bible, with founder Stewart Brand's cry, "We are as gods."

The catalogue offered an integrated and complex world view with a leftist political calling. Jobs later adopted the catalogue's mantra: "Stay hungry. Stay foolish."

Buddhism a Wake-Up Call for Steve Jobs?

The catalogue also delved into spirituality. In one 1974 article, author Rick Fields wrote that Buddhism is "a tool, like an alarm-clock for waking up."

That may have been the case for Jobs. He said in his now-famous 2005 Commencement speech at Stanford that he lived each day as if it were his last, admonishing graduates not to "live someone else's life."
"Don't be trapped by dogma -- which is living with the results of other people's thinking," Jobs said. "Don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own inner voice."

In that speech he told students to relish the time to follow their passions, recounting the time after he dropped out, but continued to audit non-credit classes like calligraphy. The elegant typefaces -- serif and sans serif -- were later introduced for the first time in the Macintosh.

"I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5 cent deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the seven miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple," he said. "I loved it."

Jobs was also influenced by Richard Baker, who was head of the Zen Center in San Francisco from 1971 until 1984, when Baker resigned after a scandalous affair with a wife of one of the center's benefactors. But Baker helped the center grow to one of the most successful in the United States.

Jobs was receptive to Baker's message of change, "helping the environment and empowering the individual."
Jobs admitted to experimenting with the hallucinogenic drug LSD, which he has said was "one of the two or three most important things" in his life.

In an unauthorized biography by Alan Deutschman, a college friend said that Jobs had even been a lover of folk singer Joan Baez, who was 41 at the time, and the attraction was largely because she had also been intimate with another '60s icon, Bob Dylan.

He was a fan of the Beatles, who also embraced spirituality and made a similar pilgrimage to India. Jobs told television's "60 Minutes" he modeled his own business after the rock group.

"They were four guys that kept each other's negative tendencies in check; they balanced each other," he said. "And the total was greater than the sum of the parts. Great things in business are not done by one person, they are done by a team of people."

Jobs said that "focus and simplicity" were the foundation of Apple's ethic.

"Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple," he told Businessweek in 1998. "But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains."
Even the minimalist design of his products -- from the first Macintosh to the sleek iPad have a "aesthetic simplicity and keenness of line" that smacks of Japanese Zen, according to Columbia's Thurman.
Former Pepsico President John Sculley, who eventually fired Jobs, said walking into Jobs' apartment had the same design feel.

"I remember going into Steve's house, and he had almost no furniture in it," Sculley said in a 2010 interview with Businessweek."He just had a picture of Einstein, whom he admired greatly, and he had a Tiffany lamp and a chair and a bed. He just didn't believe in having lots of things around, but he was incredibly careful in what he selected."

Jobs reportedly convinced Sculley to work for Apple when he asked, "Do you want to spend the rest of your life selling sugared water, or do you want a chance to change the world?"

Jobs Gave People Computer Power

Thurman contends Jobs' greatest success was not necessarily financial.

"It was his initial role in making the PC available to individuals to give them computer power," said Thurman. "He was democratizing computer power. It was his own inspiration of things and not accepting the status quo and breaking through the power of the people."

Though Jobs may not have been a devout practitioner of Buddhism, his personal and corporate vision certainly struck the same tone -- "wisdom and compassion," he said.

"Zen vision is that human beings can understand reality if they focus their mind on it and develop wisdom," said Thurman. "When you do, you have the greater capacity to arrange the nature of things and to help people."

But the irony of Jobs' spirituality was that as much as it reflected the most beautiful aspects of the products he made, those very "machines" have in some ways enslaved a generation of users, according to John Lardas Modern, a professor of religious studies at Franklin and Marshall College in Pennsylvania.

Jobs made computers and hand held devices that have allowed people to become "disembodied" on a certain level -- "to escape and transcend the mundane reality of bodily existence," according to Modern.

Such spirituality begs for freedom from the trappings of tradition, he said, but they have a down side.
"These machines are amazing," said Modern. "For the last 12 hours, I have been seeing people on Facebook and Twitter in praise of how the devices he made allow ease and convenience and empowerment."
"I love my iPad, precisely because it feels like an extension of my mind and I can't live without it," said Modern. "The irony is, these products ground us in a chair behind a desk, behind a computer and in a sense they have pushed us inward?and you don't have physical connections with others."

"It cuts both ways," he said.
GentleWind
You cannot escape the discriminating mind just as you cannot escape the matrix. badteeth.gif
tangawizi
Still chanting ceaselessly???? naughty.gif
GentleWind
Yes girl. For this I advice to also chant until we lose our minds. badteeth.gif
chutzpah
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 9 2011, 08:31 AM) *
Certainly, neither Judaism nor Islam nor Christianity influenced his thinking, he was always off on an exploration into the world of mental culture and contemplative traditions in India and Japan as well as LSD... these were the traditions that made him stand out from his contemporaries like Bill Gates and et al:

Not peddling any faith like you here, I am just like you, posting newspaper facts. icon_wink.gif

Gentle readers, the article I posted talks about the free and democartic West where Jobs grew up and reached his full potential, which I have highlighted in bold, blue and underlined, see below.

As usual Tanga will always try to twist things just to score point. Her point is Christian bashing of course embarassedlaugh.gif No one says anything about the influence of this or that faith.

Time and again, she's been caught fibbing, and this is another classic example. If anyone peddling any faith is Tanga. She never fails to extol the virtues of the meditative traditions of India, Japan and other mumbo jumbo new age brain scrabblings. This is her faith, her reality which she never fails to impressive upon us all. Sad and pathetic really.


QUOTE (chutzpah @ Oct 6 2011, 07:03 PM) *
Source: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/10/how-we-s...steve-jobs.html

How we should remember Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs, the co-founder and (until very recently) the Chief Executive Officer of Apple, died yesterday at the young age of 56. He is being universally remembered and hailed as a creative and entrepreneurial talent of the first rank, earning numerous mainstream media comparisons to other giants of American business like Rockefeller, Edison and Henry Ford. In short, he was the consummate genius that only a free, non-Muslim society could conjure up.

Steve Jobs' brilliant life and career should always remind all of us that people can not reach even a small fraction of their potential under the shadow of Islam. It is mainly in the free, democratic Western World where most of the world's creative and inventive talents are born or choose to make their homes. It is mainly in the West where one finds, even now, the freedom to innovate, to pursue your dreams, and to reap failure or success based primarily on your merits and abilities. Freedom nurtures genius and ingenuity; totalitarian creeds destroy them.

Societies that lack fundamental freedoms and true tolerance for gifted individuals -
-
namely, Islamic societies -- are remarkably consistent in failing to produce noteworthy human capital or talent. The rare exceptions we find to this maxim -- the ones who manage to escape the death grip that Islam has on the minds, souls and psyches of so many -- prove this rule all too well. The world would have been much poorer if Steve Jobs had not been blessed with being born in a free society, in America; a society that allowed and encouraged him to reach for the apex of achievement in any field he so chose. What if Steve Jobs had had the misfortune to have been born in a place like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan? What would have become of his talents then? Would the world had been for the better or worse for it?

Let us take this time to mourn and remember the late, great Steve Jobs, but let us now especially remember the lesson that his life teaches us: freedom of the individual is one of the most important gifts imaginable to the human race. The human enterprise cannot and will not progress nor succeed without it.
tangawizi
QUOTE (chutzpah @ Oct 11 2011, 06:47 AM) *
Gentle readers, the article I posted talks about the free and democartic West where Jobs grew up and reached his full potential, which I have highlighted in bold, blue and underlined, see below.

As usual Tanga will always try to twist things just to score point. Her point is Christian bashing of course embarassedlaugh.gif No one says anything about the influence of this or that faith.

Time and again, she's been caught fibbing, and this is another classic example. If anyone peddling any faith is Tanga. She never fails to extol the virtues of the meditative traditions of India, Japan and other mumbo jumbo new age brain scrabblings. This is her faith, her reality which she never fails to impressive upon us all. Sad and pathetic really.


Gentle Chutzy, I extol the virtues of ALL contemplative traditions, including those in the religions of Christian, Islam and Judaism.

My message is that it is in your contemplative traditions that you will find Love, Compassion and Human Kindness for your fellow beings. You can't cultivate these qualities from your intellectual understanding of your scriptures. Your intellectual understanding just seeks to divide you from those who do not believe and convert to your religion.

Worse still, in your campaign now to use social media to whip up sentiments against islamists and their violent political agenda, you are engendering loathing and hatred for the millions of muslims who do not share the same violent political agenda.

Don't be oppressive in your campaign to enlighten others about your fear of Islam and its political agenda. Find some way to move your listeners especially muslims who don't share the political agenda of Islamists to repudiate the violence in their midst.

How do we do that? Look into YOURSELF and find that Inner Peace and Fortitude to think out of the dogma of your religion.

It just so happens that eastern traditions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Zen have blueprints for the practice of self-contemplation that are accessible to the likes of you and me. I am just making the point that you can follow a secular form of self-contemplation tradition just like that muslim prisoner Omar did, and discover what it means to cultivate Love, Compassion and Human Kindness.

Self-Contemplation helps you to be a good Human Being first, and then you know how to become the good Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or Hindu.. etc that you have always wanted to be but just didn't know how...

That's my message to YOU.

Speak to your Sunday Bible Group about this... I hope it will resonate with you this urgency for you to do some self-contemplation in the quietitude and fortitude of your mind. with God or without, doesn't matter... just do it.

icon_smile.gif

chutzpah
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Oct 11 2011, 03:56 AM) *
Worse still, in your campaign now to use social media to whip up sentiments against islamists and their violent political agenda, you are engendering loathing and hatred for the millions of muslims who do not share the same violent political agenda.

Gentle readers, this is indeed as rare as they come, I refer to the civility coming from Tangawizi who is normally quite boorish in her response to my post. Civility begets civility as they say.

It is also the height of arrogance to assume that others who do not subscribe to her way are therefore unable to cultivate, love, compassion and being kind, thus are not able to be good human being. But I won’t be discussing this issue here.

That aside, I am afraid Tanga is totally off the mark. By merely hightlighting the plights of non Muslims living under dhimmitude in Islamic states does not constitute a campaign of loathing and hatred against the millions of peace loving Muslims.

What we should really be asking is why the same atrocities are always committed en-masse by the majority against the minorities? If Tanga is correct, then why the deafening silence from the peace loving majority? Where are their voices of dissent against these atrocities?

Why have the atrocities against non Muslims increased from year to year? Why in the West have the Muslims become even more bold and militant in their quest for installing their law, the Shariah laws? Think Europe, the US and Australia.

A perfect example of this is Pakistan. We see hordes of ordinary citizens violently asking for the blood of Christians, who have been falsely accused and sentenced to death without trial or evidence under the blasphemy laws. We see this same scene being played out again and again under various causes in India, in Indonesia and many Mideastern countries. In the UK, we often see violent demonstrations by UK Muslims in the streets. Then there is the suffering of the Coptic Christians in Egypt. 70+ churches were shut down or destroyed in 2010 in Indonesia alone, and it is supposed to be one of the moderate Islamic countries.

Another pertinent question that we should also be asking is this: why have all the traditionally Christian lands are now Islamic? Why did it happen in just a short time at the advance of Islam? What happened during that time? Byzantine or present day Turkey was the seat of the great Christian empire under Constantine, why has the number of Turkish Christians dwindled to a mere hundred or so?

Tangawizi has been posting anti Christian particluraly anti Catholic articles lately because I am Catholic. What she posts do not in anyway distract from or diminish the heinous crime done to non Muslims living under Islamic rule.

This Debate/Philosophy/Religion section is full of just such reports. Censoring the media reports on these atrocities is tantamount of giving approval of these crimes. It is also touching to note Tangawizi’s concern for the Muslims, never mind about the Christians living amongst them. Yet Muslims living in the West are free and even enjoy special status which others do not. What engendering loathing and hatred? Though as minority even the KFC and MacDonald are certified halal just to carter for their need, not to mention the countless products in our supermarket selves.

I don’t know which is worst, the willfully and intentionally ignorant or the hypocrite.

I suggest that Tangawizi reflects on these issues during one of her contemplative and meditative session. Perhaps she could imagine herself as one of the many suffering Christians living in perpetual dhimmitude rather than making light of their plight. That would be a start to the way of being a good human being....
tangawizi
Let me ask you this Chutzy, in your campaign now to use social media to belittle muslim posters and Islam their religion while extolling the virtues of your professed faith in the Catholic Church, what sort of aims to you wish to serve?

That there be a complete abolishment of islam on this planet? Hardly likely a scenario in our lifetimes.

That there be a movement to kick out muslims from christian lands on this planet? In other words, christians start mimicking the pogroms that islamists are committing against their minorities? Two wrongs don't make a right, chutzy.

That we support a movement by the Catholic Church to reverse the trend of rising secularism and empty churches, cuz only the Church represents the very best in Western enlightenment? I think that's dead wrong. It's Science and the Spirituality that have been at the heart of Our Age of Reason. Not your religion or a muslim's religion.

The fight between Judaism, Christianity and Islam is an age-old fight.

If you wanna say that the tenets of Islam is the cause of islamists violence and aggression against other faiths, we don't have to look further to the Old testament Deuteronomy for the same tenets of violence and agression.

The way you go about haranging the hell out of forummers who disagree with your views about Islam or tries to tell you that your faith is also part of the problem, you are just perpetuating the age-old fight between these 3 monotheistic faiths.

Fact is, monotheistic believers should wake the hell up now and realise they been living under a system of faith without evidence. Why is it, in this age of reason, do we need to have a fear of God and hell/heaven as rewards in our afterlife in order to stay moral and upright?

Yes, sure, there are religious sh'ia and sunni mullahs who regularly commit crimes against humanity, so have there been religious catholic priests.

I know it hurts to hear these things said about the Church.

The Church is not the salvation for healing the division in this world.

REASON and EVIDENCE are.

Dhimmitude in countries like Malaysia? I have already said the minorities have to gather around a visionary leader who will stir the hearts and miinds of all Malaysians, not just chinese or indians, but all malaysians!

Where is that visionary leader? Where is that vision from?

Non-violence ... in words and actions chutzy.

Transpose that visionary leadership in Malaysia to the rest of the religious World. We need visionary leadership who can cut through the crap of religious scripture (that only serves to divide not unite) and talk about the truth of human nature, the loathing and kindness that we can engender in each other... and i think all of us (muslims, jews and christians) are capable of this vision when we are quietly contemplating these by observing the nature of ourselves and our thoughts, words and actions.

I would ask you to meditate on that scenario and ask what is the nature of your motivations in all these debates on Islam and Christianity.

Tomorrow there is a muslim movement called One Through Love on the web that's precisely about waking up the muslims who have no clue about contemplative traditions in their faith.

If you are in the Occupy Wall Street movement, I am sure this movement below will resonate with you :


QUOTE
On October 15th, 2011 (this Saturday guys!), we will be launching a new website called "One Through Love: A Gathering of Lovers," to remind people around the world that love (Askh in Turkish, Eshgh in Persian) is the singular force that underlies and connects all creation. One Through Love will be the first cinematic, multi-lingual website which uses the poetry and teachings of Jalaluddin Rumi to spread the unifying message of love, in English, Persian, Arabic and Turkish.

One Through Love is truly "a gathering of lovers," since it presents an international gathering of Rumi "lovers" -- scholars, musicians, dervishes and other sufi practitioners from Turkey, Iran, Europe and the US. Each film segment shown on the website is subtitled in four languages, so that people in different countries will be watching and responding to the same film material. They will be sending in responses, comments and questions and meeting other "lovers" from the Arab, Persian, Turkish, European and North American worlds. Truly a translator's dream!

One Through Love is a unique experiment, though not one without some precedent. It was 44 years ago, that the birth of the satellite era made possible the first, live, global television transmission. The BBC put up The Beatles' "All You Need is Love" (on June 25th, 1967) connecting a string of satellites, across the globe, ultimately reaching an astounding audience of 400 million people in 26 countries. On Saturday, October 15th, (at 11:50 a.m. PST, 2:50 p.m. EST; 7:50 p.m. GMT) the One Through Love project will be using the power of film and music, together with modern, low-cost digital and internet technologies to send out essentially the same message, the same affirmation.


Here is a video clip of Parisa Soultani, the project website host, chief translator and co-producer, extending the invitation to join this "gathering of lovers," in Turkish, Persian, Arabic and English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAymMin3ctc...player_embedded


To Jalaluddin Rumi, the 13th century sufi poet-mystic, intoxication and particularly, "love," can only be understood in its divine, all-encompassing manifestation, a form of spiritual "yearning" which is familiar to all spiritual seekers. For Sufis, this "yearning" is highly celebrated, and given the outer forms of "Lover" and "Beloved."
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