A Cultural Link Spanning Three Centuries:
The Story of the Cape Malay
*South Africa and Indonesia have only enjoyed formal diplomatic ties since August 1994, but it is not a well known fact that our links stretch back close to three hundred years.*
*Looking back in history, the colonization of Africa and Asia by European powers from the fifteenth toMosquenineteenth centuries led to the enslavement of millions of Afro-Asian peoples, and an international slave trade. This slave trade led to the involuntary migration of large numbers of Africans and Asians to different parts of the world.*
*It was one such stream of people, most of whom were political exiles or prisoners who had opposed the colonization of their countries, that came to the Cape of Good Hope (now the city of Cape Town). The first such migrants began to arrive in the latter half of the seventeenth century, mainly from colonies occupied by the Dutch and the British.*
Cape Malays*The large majority of these migrants that came to the Cape of Good Hope were Muslims, who were captured and sent into exile from colonies such as Ceylon, Madagascar, India and the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia as we know it today).*
*The origins of this migration can be traced to early in the sixteenth century when, at the end of Indonesia's Majapahit Kingdom, European military penetration and anti-Islamic persecution caused resistance. The dutch crushed that resistance and exiled many opponents to the Cape of Good Hope in southern Africa, which was also occupied by the Dutch.*
*The first Dutch settlers in the Cape of Good Hope arrived in 1652, when Jan van Riebeeck came to the Cape to establish a trading post and supply fort in the Cape of Good Hope. The Cape thus became a regular stopover for trading vessels plying the Europe-East Indies route. In fact, remnants of the settlement can be found*
* in the city of Cape Town today, such as the Castle or Old Fort.*
*The Dutch therefore required labour and utilised the opportunity to import political exiles from the East Indies as slaves. Many of these people were skilled artisans, such as silversmiths, masons, milliners, cobblers, singers and tailors. They came to be known collectively as Cape Malay, since despite their diverse origins as far afield as East Africa and Malaysia, and they all spoke the "traders' lingua franca"- Malay.*
Kramat*One such prominent, figure among the Cape Malay, or Orang Cayen (Men of Repute), who resisted the Dutch occupation of the East Indies, and is hailed as a hero in modern day Indonesia, was Sheikh Yusuf. He is credited with having brought Islam to South Africa. Sheikh Yusuf (or Sheikh Yusuf al-taj alKhalwatial-Maqasari, as he is known in religious circles) was born in 1626 in Goa on the island of Celebes (today known as Sulawesi), the son of Makassarese nobility, and the nephew of King Bissu of Gowa.*
*Sheikh Yusuf spent several years studying Arabic and traditional religious sciences in Mecca, and eventually returned to Banten, West Java, where he taught the Islamic doctrine of "Khalwatiyyah", which he had learned during his years spent in Mecca.*
*He eventually sided with Sultan Ageng in his fight against attempts by the Dutch to gain complete control of the Sultanates in the East Indies. Sheikh Yusuf was captured in 1683, and exiled to Ceylon and eventually the Cape of Good Hope, where he arrived aboard the ship "de Voetboeg" in 1694.*
*Having arrived in the Cape, Sheikh Yusuf and his family and followers were sent to Zandvliet farm just outside Cape Town, to prevent his influence on the Islamic slave population. The Dutch attempts to isolate them failed, and Zandvliet became a rallying point for slaves, and other exiles from the East. Today, this farm area is known as Macassar. As Sheikh Yusuf's influence and spiritual teachings spread, the elementary
structures of one of the first Muslim communities in the country were Ambassador BS Kubheka and Linford Andrews outside the kramat of Sheikh Yusufestablished.*
*Sheikh Yusuf died on 23 May 1699, and was buried on a hill overlooking Macassar. Today, a tomb constructed there is among the 25 Islamic shrines or kramat that encircle Cape Town. In 1705, Sheikh Yusuf's remains were brought to Makassar (Ujung Pandang of today), and interred in a tomb located in Katangka Village, bordering on the Gowa regency.*
*Ambassador Kubheka paid a historic visit to the tomb while on an official visit to South Sulawesi in March 1997, to pay his respects to the memory of Sheikh Yusuf, and the cultural link between South Africa and Indonesia which he helped to found.*
*Today in the city of Cape Town, remnants of this culture are to be found as Cape Festival celebrationsa thriving Cape Malay community lends character to the mother city of South Africa. Cape Malay architecture, food (such as bobotie and yellow rice, samoosas, rotis, etc.), tailor shops, mosques and the warmth and hospitality of the Malay people continue to attract tourists in abundance. Indonesians and Malaysians are visiting Cape Town in increasing numbers to experience this cultural link for themselves.*
*Who can ever forget the spirit and vitality of a Cape Malay choir belting out original Dutch folk songs on a warm New Year's Eve evening or at Malay choir competitions? Or the vibrance and colourful spectacle of the New Year's Carnival, when in true Rio Carnival style, a song and dance procession by Cape minstrels is held through the streets of Cape Town? Costumes for this carnival are planned and made months in advance by Cape Malay tailors, and are kept a secret by each dance troupe until the very day of the carnival itself!*
Full Version: Indonesia - South Africa Historical Link
QUOTE (Ara @ Mar 2 2005, 10:28 AM)
The Dutch therefore required labour and utilised the opportunity to import political exiles from the East Indies as slaves. Many of these people were skilled artisans, such as silversmiths, masons, milliners, cobblers, singers and tailors. They came to be known collectively as Cape Malay, since despite their diverse origins as far afield as East Africa and Malaysia,
Exiles and slaves are two different things. Muslim slaves were only from Bengal,India. Slaves from Indonesia were all non-Muslim aborigines who were caught by Muslim Malays and sold to the Dutch.
Muslims from Indonesia who were sent to Cape Town were either VOC soldiers or political exiles.Those political exiles went in several waves and each high ranking exile brought his own retinue of followers and family members.One was even known to bring his own slaves along.
Muslim exiles were placed in satellite colonies around Cape Town and had to be self sustaining to some degree. That's why many skilled artisans accompanied the exiled aristocrats.Muslim Malays were never slaves in any way.
As for Muslim slaves in Cape Town, there were two kinds.Bengali Muslims and slaves who converted to Islam when they were in Cape Town. These Muslim slaves were later called Malay slaves by the Dutch even though there was nothing Malay about them.
This is why confused people like you keep claiming that all Cape Malays are descendants of "Malay slaves".You need to know that there was no such thing as Malay slaves.
True Malays were a highly advanced noble predator race.
When it comes to slavery, Malays were on top of the food chain; and many Dutch people were among their victims.
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 2 2005, 11:49 AM)
QUOTE (Ara @ Mar 2 2005, 10:28 AM)
The Dutch therefore required labour and utilised the opportunity to import political exiles from the East Indies as slaves. Many of these people were skilled artisans, such as silversmiths, masons, milliners, cobblers, singers and tailors. They came to be known collectively as Cape Malay, since despite their diverse origins as far afield as East Africa and Malaysia,
Exiles and slaves are two different things. Muslim slaves were only from Bengal,India. Slaves from Indonesia were all non-Muslim aborigines who were caught by Muslim Malays and sold to the Dutch.
Muslims from Indonesia who were sent to Cape Town were either VOC soldiers or political exiles.Those political exiles went in several waves and each high ranking exile brought his own retinue of followers and family members.One was even known to bring his own slaves along.
Muslim exiles were placed in satellite colonies around Cape Town and had to be self sustaining to some degree. That's why many skilled artisans accompanied the exiled aristocrats.Muslim Malays were never slaves in any way.
As for Muslim slaves in Cape Town, there were two kinds.Bengali Muslims and slaves who converted to Islam when they were in Cape Town. These Muslim slaves were later called Malay slaves by the Dutch even though there was nothing Malay about them.
This is why confused people like you keep claiming that all Cape Malays are descendants of "Malay slaves".You need to know that there was no such thing as Malay slaves.
True Malays were a highly advanced noble predator race.
When it comes to slavery, Malays were on top of the food chain; and many Dutch people were among their victims.
no offense, IM, but isn't that a bit of Nationalism?
i mean the noone in SEAsia were spared of colonialism.
Is Iron Malayan for real? 
Hate to bring you back to reality but someone got to do it. You don't need to go back to the past to see that Muslim Malays were being used as slaves. Even now, alot of Muslim Malays from Indonesia are still being use as slave in Singapore, Hongkong and other SE Asian countries by ethnic chinese.
It's very sad but very true... I hope their govt do something about it.
I have never heard accounts of the Dutch being slaves to the Malays.
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 2 2005, 11:49 AM)
This is why confused people like you keep claiming that all Cape Malays are descendants of "Malay slaves".You need to know that there was no such thing as Malay slaves.
Incorrect good sir. Did you forget about Magellan's servant from Sumatra by the name of Enrique? Record shows that Enrique was a "captured slave." This notion is important, this means that he was a warrior on the loosing side and not bought as a slave. After Magellan's death, the new captain told Enrique that eventhough Magellan is dead, he is still a slave. It's also been argued that Enrique, not Magellan, was the first person to go around the world.
^^ There were two versions of Enrique.
1. A Malay nobleman by the name of Panglima Awang who defected to the Portuguese side and converted to Christianity.
2. A slave from Sumatra. If this was the case, you can be sure he was either a Batak, a Komering or other aborigines still practising animism.Those people were constantly raided by Malays in those days.
Malays were also known to enslave Portuguese people. For instance when the Portuguese fortress on Ternate was overran by Malays, all the Portuguese man ,women and children were enslaved.
Is Iron Malayan for real?
Hate to bring you back to reality but someone got to do it. You don't need to go back to the past to see that Muslim Malays were being used as slaves. Even now, alot of Muslim Malays from Indonesia are still being use as slave in Singapore, Hongkong and other SE Asian countries by ethnic chinese.
Is that so.
Last time I checked those Indonesians were still paid workers who can quit anytime they want.
If you want to see them as slaves, thats your problem. I couldn't care less. I just want to add that Indonesian maids are not of Malay stock. They are aborigines.
Furthermore, they are not the same as those Chinese slaves being smuggled to the USA and Europe in filthy containers and locked up as slaves in sweatshop factories when they get there.
If coolies or even paid foreign workers are slaves to you, I can also go back in history and point out that there were thousands of Chinese coolies labouring for Malay enterprises. In the book "Prince of Pirates: The Temenggongs and the Development of Johor and Singapore", the author Carl Trocki stated that there were 10,000 Chinese coolies in Malay and Bugis owned pepper and gambier plantations in 1784 Riau Archipelago.
Another point worth noting is that some Malays were known to raid Chinese settlements along the Pearl River until the Portuguese built a base in Macao.
What has nationalism got to do with what I'm saying? We are discussing history here; and are you saying colonialism and slavery are the same thing ?
Most reports I read were written by European authors. I can cite two of them.
In the book "History of Johor" by RO Winstedt, the war galleys in the navy of some Malay states were rowed by slaves including many European slaves.
In another book which I don't remember the title, a 19th century Dutch gunboat was given the task of suppressing "Malay pirates"; but they searched too hard and actually found one. In the ensuing melee, the entire Dutch crew except the commanding officer were slain. The Dutch commander was taken to Lingga where he became the personal property of the ruler. In other words, he got owned.
. After some time, a Chinese merchant had a brilliant idea on how to win some favour from the Dutch. He bought the freedom of this Dutchman and took him back to Batavia.
Bear in mind these are stories from foreign authors. Lots of cases were not reported because those Malays did not keep written records of their victims and slaves. Nearly all white slaves died in bondage; that's why we don't get to hear their stories.
Through centuries of predatory attacks on European shipping, thousands of Europeans were caught though not all of them were enslaved.
1. A Malay nobleman by the name of Panglima Awang who defected to the Portuguese side and converted to Christianity.
2. A slave from Sumatra. If this was the case, you can be sure he was either a Batak, a Komering or other aborigines still practising animism.Those people were constantly raided by Malays in those days.
Malays were also known to enslave Portuguese people. For instance when the Portuguese fortress on Ternate was overran by Malays, all the Portuguese man ,women and children were enslaved.
QUOTE (soro_i @ Mar 2 2005, 02:18 PM)
Is Iron Malayan for real? Hate to bring you back to reality but someone got to do it. You don't need to go back to the past to see that Muslim Malays were being used as slaves. Even now, alot of Muslim Malays from Indonesia are still being use as slave in Singapore, Hongkong and other SE Asian countries by ethnic chinese.
Is that so.
Last time I checked those Indonesians were still paid workers who can quit anytime they want.
If you want to see them as slaves, thats your problem. I couldn't care less. I just want to add that Indonesian maids are not of Malay stock. They are aborigines.
Furthermore, they are not the same as those Chinese slaves being smuggled to the USA and Europe in filthy containers and locked up as slaves in sweatshop factories when they get there.
If coolies or even paid foreign workers are slaves to you, I can also go back in history and point out that there were thousands of Chinese coolies labouring for Malay enterprises. In the book "Prince of Pirates: The Temenggongs and the Development of Johor and Singapore", the author Carl Trocki stated that there were 10,000 Chinese coolies in Malay and Bugis owned pepper and gambier plantations in 1784 Riau Archipelago.
Another point worth noting is that some Malays were known to raid Chinese settlements along the Pearl River until the Portuguese built a base in Macao.
QUOTE (flipcombatmedic)
no offense, IM, but isn't that a bit of Nationalism? i mean the noone in SEAsia were spared of colonialism
What has nationalism got to do with what I'm saying? We are discussing history here; and are you saying colonialism and slavery are the same thing ?
QUOTE
I have never heard accounts of the Dutch being slaves to the Malays.
Most reports I read were written by European authors. I can cite two of them.
In the book "History of Johor" by RO Winstedt, the war galleys in the navy of some Malay states were rowed by slaves including many European slaves.
In another book which I don't remember the title, a 19th century Dutch gunboat was given the task of suppressing "Malay pirates"; but they searched too hard and actually found one. In the ensuing melee, the entire Dutch crew except the commanding officer were slain. The Dutch commander was taken to Lingga where he became the personal property of the ruler. In other words, he got owned.
. After some time, a Chinese merchant had a brilliant idea on how to win some favour from the Dutch. He bought the freedom of this Dutchman and took him back to Batavia.Bear in mind these are stories from foreign authors. Lots of cases were not reported because those Malays did not keep written records of their victims and slaves. Nearly all white slaves died in bondage; that's why we don't get to hear their stories.
Through centuries of predatory attacks on European shipping, thousands of Europeans were caught though not all of them were enslaved.
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 3 2005, 03:29 AM)
^^ There were two versions of Enrique.
1. A Malay nobleman by the name of Panglima Awang who defected to the Portuguese side and converted to Christianity.
2. A slave from Sumatra. If this was the case, you can be sure he was either a Batak, a Komering or other aborigines still practising animism.Those people were constantly raided by Malays in those days.
Malays were also known to enslave Portuguese people. For instance when the Portuguese fortress on Ternate was overran by Malays, all the Portuguese man ,women and children were enslaved.
Is Iron Malayan for real?
Hate to bring you back to reality but someone got to do it. You don't need to go back to the past to see that Muslim Malays were being used as slaves. Even now, alot of Muslim Malays from Indonesia are still being use as slave in Singapore, Hongkong and other SE Asian countries by ethnic chinese.
Is that so.
Last time I checked those Indonesians were still paid workers who can quit anytime they want.
If you want to see them as slaves, thats your problem. I couldn't care less. I just want to add that Indonesian maids are not of Malay stock. They are aborigines.
Furthermore, they are not the same as those Chinese slaves being smuggled to the USA and Europe in filthy containers and locked up as slaves in sweatshop factories when they get there.
If coolies or even paid foreign workers are slaves to you, I can also go back in history and point out that there were thousands of Chinese coolies labouring for Malay enterprises. In the book "Prince of Pirates: The Temenggongs and the Development of Johor and Singapore", the author Carl Trocki stated that there were 10,000 Chinese coolies in Malay and Bugis owned pepper and gambier plantations in 1784 Riau Archipelago.
Another point worth noting is that some Malays were known to raid Chinese settlements along the Pearl River until the Portuguese built a base in Macao.
What has nationalism got to do with what I'm saying? We are discussing history here; and are you saying colonialism and slavery are the same thing ?
Most reports I read were written by European authors. I can cite two of them.
In the book "History of Johor" by RO Winstedt, the war galleys in the navy of some Malay states were rowed by slaves including many European slaves.
In another book which I don't remember the title, a 19th century Dutch gunboat was given the task of suppressing "Malay pirates"; but they searched too hard and actually found one. In the ensuing melee, the entire Dutch crew except the commanding officer were slain. The Dutch commander was taken to Lingga where he became the personal property of the ruler. In other words, he got owned. . After some time, a Chinese merchant had a brilliant idea on how to win some favour from the Dutch. He bought the freedom of this Dutchman and took him back to Batavia.
Bear in mind these are stories from foreign authors. Lots of cases were not reported because those Malays did not keep written records of their victims and slaves. Nearly all white slaves died in bondage; that's why we don't get to hear their stories.
Through centuries of predatory attacks on European shipping, thousands of Europeans were caught though not all of them were enslaved.
1. A Malay nobleman by the name of Panglima Awang who defected to the Portuguese side and converted to Christianity.
2. A slave from Sumatra. If this was the case, you can be sure he was either a Batak, a Komering or other aborigines still practising animism.Those people were constantly raided by Malays in those days.
Malays were also known to enslave Portuguese people. For instance when the Portuguese fortress on Ternate was overran by Malays, all the Portuguese man ,women and children were enslaved.
QUOTE (soro_i @ Mar 2 2005, 02:18 PM)
Is Iron Malayan for real? Hate to bring you back to reality but someone got to do it. You don't need to go back to the past to see that Muslim Malays were being used as slaves. Even now, alot of Muslim Malays from Indonesia are still being use as slave in Singapore, Hongkong and other SE Asian countries by ethnic chinese.
Is that so.
Last time I checked those Indonesians were still paid workers who can quit anytime they want.
If you want to see them as slaves, thats your problem. I couldn't care less. I just want to add that Indonesian maids are not of Malay stock. They are aborigines.
Furthermore, they are not the same as those Chinese slaves being smuggled to the USA and Europe in filthy containers and locked up as slaves in sweatshop factories when they get there.
If coolies or even paid foreign workers are slaves to you, I can also go back in history and point out that there were thousands of Chinese coolies labouring for Malay enterprises. In the book "Prince of Pirates: The Temenggongs and the Development of Johor and Singapore", the author Carl Trocki stated that there were 10,000 Chinese coolies in Malay and Bugis owned pepper and gambier plantations in 1784 Riau Archipelago.
Another point worth noting is that some Malays were known to raid Chinese settlements along the Pearl River until the Portuguese built a base in Macao.
QUOTE (flipcombatmedic)
no offense, IM, but isn't that a bit of Nationalism? i mean the noone in SEAsia were spared of colonialism
What has nationalism got to do with what I'm saying? We are discussing history here; and are you saying colonialism and slavery are the same thing ?
QUOTE
I have never heard accounts of the Dutch being slaves to the Malays.
Most reports I read were written by European authors. I can cite two of them.
In the book "History of Johor" by RO Winstedt, the war galleys in the navy of some Malay states were rowed by slaves including many European slaves.
In another book which I don't remember the title, a 19th century Dutch gunboat was given the task of suppressing "Malay pirates"; but they searched too hard and actually found one. In the ensuing melee, the entire Dutch crew except the commanding officer were slain. The Dutch commander was taken to Lingga where he became the personal property of the ruler. In other words, he got owned.
. After some time, a Chinese merchant had a brilliant idea on how to win some favour from the Dutch. He bought the freedom of this Dutchman and took him back to Batavia.Bear in mind these are stories from foreign authors. Lots of cases were not reported because those Malays did not keep written records of their victims and slaves. Nearly all white slaves died in bondage; that's why we don't get to hear their stories.
Through centuries of predatory attacks on European shipping, thousands of Europeans were caught though not all of them were enslaved.
Really wow the Dutch must have been pretty weak.
So Malays were actually the ones in charge during Dutch rule.
QUOTE (Fil-Am @ Mar 6 2005, 02:12 AM)
Really wow the Dutch must have been pretty weak.
So Malays were actually the ones in charge during Dutch rule.
So Malays were actually the ones in charge during Dutch rule.
Apparently you don't know about Malayan History... Let me enlighten you... When the British was in Malaysia, the Malays were the one running the British Empire. And during WWII, the Japanese soldiers were in Malaysia to pay their homage to their master the Malays.
I hope you'll make necessary correction in your history book.
QUOTE (Fil-Am @ Mar 6 2005, 02:12 AM)
Really wow the Dutch must have been pretty weak.
Indeed.The Dutch were no match for real Malays. They only managed to defeat one small Malay state after another because of two reasons:
1) They had millions of people in the Netherlands while the average Malay sultanate had only 50,000 each.
2) When Dutch technology fell behind other Europeans in the 19th century, they were able to import the most advanced weapons from Germany, England and France. Malay states which were still independant in the 19th century were not given the same treatment by these superpowers because we are not white Christian Europeans.
The lousy Dutch could never have beaten racially superior true-Malays had they not enjoyed these unfair advantages.
QUOTE (Fil-Am @ Mar 6 2005, 02:12 AM)
So Malays were actually the ones in charge during Dutch rule.
Many Malay states in Sumatra,Borneo and the peninsula were independent up until the middle and late 19th century. That's why the Dutch who were occupying Java and some other islands were attacked at sea from the mid 17th to the mid 19th century.
QUOTE (soro_i @ Mar 6 2005, 06:52 AM)
Apparently you don't know about Malayan History... Let me enlighten you... When the British was in Malaysia, the Malays were the one running the British Empire. And during WWII, the Japanese soldiers were in Malaysia to pay their homage to their master the Malays.
I hope you'll make necessary correction in your history book.
Relaaaax. I was only explaining the fighting prowess of real Malay people. You are wetting your panty for no reason.I hope you'll make necessary correction in your history book.
This soro-i thinks I don't know who he is.
That's enough about who's slaving who.
It's just the matter of power and exploitation of one to another.
If some people, community, state, country, or empire become extensively rich and powerful. They tend to exploit less developed others.
It's just the matter of power and exploitation of one to another.
If some people, community, state, country, or empire become extensively rich and powerful. They tend to exploit less developed others.
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Mar 6 2005, 07:33 PM)
The lousy Dutch could never have beaten racially superior true-Malays had they not enjoyed these unfair advantages.
Excuse me? I thought racial superiority was something we left behind in the past happily. How can anyone who is not a complete idiot state that one people is racially superior to another?
I feel sorry for Iron Malayan that he (and if he is correct all of his Malay people) is so backward, primitive and undereducated that he believes in such medieval concepts as racial supremacy.
Apart from that and back to the topic: some of the Cape Malays were in fact slaves brought in from Malaysia. A lot of them were captured by the Dutch in battles against the English all over South East Asia. The Malays often worked in the millitary under British command.
And in case someone else tries to tell you that Malaysians are superior and were never ever enslaved, in the Dutch Rijksarchief (state archives) there are numerous documents stating otherwise. Cargo letters, selling lists (who bought which Malay slave), etc. And these were NOT Javanese or Moluccans or something! They were Malays from all over the Malay archipelo.
One last example: between 1658 and 1700, 1296 slaves were brought to the Cape. Of those, 420 came from what we now know as Malaysia, 189 were from nowadays Indonesia, 310 from Madagaskar (also partially Malay!) and the rest from India, Africa, etc.
Now even more on topic: most Cape Malays now live scattered all over the Western Cape Province in South Africa, but there is still a big concentration in the part of Cape Town called Bo Kaap.
It's a very proud and open people, predominantly muslim. They speak Afrikaans, but have their own significant dialect of Afrikaans. In fact, the first example of written Afrikaans (a language close to Dutch that only started to become different from Dutch in the 17th or 18th century) was a religuous text, Bayaan-ud-diyn, written in Arab script by Abu Bakr, an Imam from the Bo Kaap area.
As far as physical features are concerned: I visited the Bo Kaap a couple of times and the people are surprisingly homogenic. They all look like Malays, but slightly darker and taller.
The Cape Malays were also responsible for a lot of input in Afrikaans vocabulary. Words like baie (a lot, from banyak), piesang, nonna/nonje (nyonya), blatjang, koejawel, baadjie, katel, piering all have their origins in Malay.
Warm regards from a lousy, racially inferior Dutchman!
Maybe your primitive backward Dutch brain was too dumb to understand what I said above so now let me make it as simple as possible for your chicken $hit Dutch @$$ to understand.
MALAYS WERE NOT SLAVES AND SLAVES WERE NOT MALAYS.
Regards from lousy Dutch accepted.
MALAYS WERE NOT SLAVES AND SLAVES WERE NOT MALAYS.
QUOTE
Warm regards from a lousy, racially inferior Dutchman!
Regards from lousy Dutch accepted.
Dutch could only win at Sumatran war against Malay (Jambi and Palembang war) after they brought with them thousand of their Javanese and lousy Moluccan troops.
Dutch could not even conquered Achehnese, eventhough not only Javanese and Moluccan peoples they use to subdue Aceh but also their additional troop from all over around the world to subdue Aceh, but Dutch failed.
A lot of people make prediction Sumatran if they rule their own place they will be rich like Brunei.
Malay Sumatran overall are smart people and very logic thinking. I wonder maybe sumatran average Intelligence are the most higher in Indonesia.
Dutch could not even conquered Achehnese, eventhough not only Javanese and Moluccan peoples they use to subdue Aceh but also their additional troop from all over around the world to subdue Aceh, but Dutch failed.
A lot of people make prediction Sumatran if they rule their own place they will be rich like Brunei.
Malay Sumatran overall are smart people and very logic thinking. I wonder maybe sumatran average Intelligence are the most higher in Indonesia.
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Jul 14 2005, 04:18 PM)
Maybe your primitive backward Dutch brain was too dumb to understand what I said above so now let me make it as simple as possible for your chicken $hit Dutch @$$ to understand.
MALAYS WERE NOT SLAVES AND SLAVES WERE NOT MALAYS.
MALAYS WERE NOT SLAVES AND SLAVES WERE NOT MALAYS.
So if I come up with facts, you only shout a little louder? So that is how Malay intelligence and racial superiority looks like? I'm really impressed now.
Maybe you can react on subject rather than keep shouting that you're so good? I thought that is what a forum is for: discussing a subject. In stead of a discussion about the historical links between Indonesia and South Africa, you only scream & shout like a wounded pig and keep repeating how strong, intelligent and superior you are.
In fact, I think you're a disgrace to your people. Take Nus as an example; I don't agree with him that it can actually be measured that one people is more intelligent than another people, but at least he is reasonable and doesn't start insulting other people.
Now, can we get back to the subject please?
QUOTE (Nusantara @ Jul 14 2005, 10:08 PM)
Malay Sumatran overall are smart people and very logic thinking. I wonder maybe sumatran average Intelligence are the most higher in Indonesia.
He..he.. I think our Riau Malay brother got his view waaaay out of fact here.
If they soo smart, why Javanese always rule Indonesian presidential throne up until now? (not mention they were majority).
Why ancient Javanese can create one of World's Wonders, Borobudur Temple, that technologically and artistically very advance in 8th century?
Why do they can create gamelan orchestra, that the sounds soo unique that seems not from this world?
Why Bugis and Makassar people can make Phinisi soo efficient and perfect in design, that these ship can sail world wide?
Why Balinese soo creative that every thing they makes with their hands are work of art?
From your Sumatran side: Why Minangkabau or Padang people can make their dish really delicious and establish the most successful traditional restaurant chain Nusantara-wide (Warung Padang)?
Why Indonesian International Physics Olympiad delegates are mostly Chinese Indonesian descendants?
So..., my suggestion is: get out from your shell and learn to appreciate about many beautifull and great things that other ethnics have created.
2
Ebrahim Rasool, an Indonesian descent who is the prime minister of Western Cape Province of South Africa.
The Cape Town "Kramat", tomb of Sheikh Yusuf al-Makassari (1626-1699), an Indonesian Islamic scholar who was exiled to Cape Town, South Africa by the Dutch East India Company after leading anti-Dutch resistance of Banten Sultanate.
The grave of Shiekh Yusuf in Cape Town, which today remains an object of pilgrimage despite the fact that Sheikh Yusuf's mortal remains has been shipped back and re-buried in South Sulawesi in 1705.
QUOTE
CAPE MALAYS
The Cape Malay community is an ethnic group or community in South Africa, taking its name from what is now known as the Western Cape of South Africa and the Malay people who started this community in South Africa. The community's earliest members were slaves brought by the Dutch East India Company, followed shortly thereafter by political dissidents and Muslim religious leaders who opposed the Dutch presence in what is now Indonesia. Starting in 1654, these resistors were imprisoned or exiled in South Africa by the Dutch East India Company, which founded and used what is now Cape Town as a resupply station for ships traveling between Europe and Asia.
Because ethnicity is a politically loaded and historically painful topic in South Africa, it can be useful to consider the Cape Malay identity as the product of a set of histories and communities at least as much as it is a real definition of an ethnic group. Further, since many Cape Malay people find their Muslim identity to be more salient than their "Malay" ancestry, there have also been many instances in which people in one situation were described as "Cape Malay", and were in another situation described as "Cape Muslim" by people both inside and outside of the community. From the early 1970s to the present, some members of this community--particularly those with a political allegiance to broader liberation movements in South Africa--may refer to themselves as "black" in the terms of the Black Consciousness Movement. The "Cape Malay" identity was also a subcategory of the so-called "Coloured" category in the terms of the apartheid-era government's classifications of ethnicity. Like many South Africans, people described in some situations as "Cape Malay" are often the descendants of people from many continents and religions.
But if there are those who shy from the label, there are also others who use the phrase "Cape Malay" as a proud marker of their own history and cultural identification.
The founders of this community were the first to bring Islam to South Africa. The community's culture and traditions have also left an impact that is felt to this day. Adaptations of traditional foods such as bredie, bobotie, sosaties and koeksisters are staples in many South African homes. And the Muslim community in Cape Town remains large and vibrant to this day, now much expanded beyond those exiles who started the first mosques in South Africa.
People in the Cape Malay community generally speak English and Afrikaans rather than Malay or other languages that their ancestors brought, though various Malay words and phrases are still employed in daily usage.
It is estimated that there are about 166,000 people in Cape Town who could be described as Cape Malay, and about 10,000 in Johannesburg. The picturesque Malay Quarter of Cape Town is found on Signal Hill, and is called the Bo-Kaap. Many Cape Malay people also lived in District Six before it was demolished; after its demolition, most were forced to move to so-called Coloured townships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Malay
The Cape Malay community is an ethnic group or community in South Africa, taking its name from what is now known as the Western Cape of South Africa and the Malay people who started this community in South Africa. The community's earliest members were slaves brought by the Dutch East India Company, followed shortly thereafter by political dissidents and Muslim religious leaders who opposed the Dutch presence in what is now Indonesia. Starting in 1654, these resistors were imprisoned or exiled in South Africa by the Dutch East India Company, which founded and used what is now Cape Town as a resupply station for ships traveling between Europe and Asia.
Because ethnicity is a politically loaded and historically painful topic in South Africa, it can be useful to consider the Cape Malay identity as the product of a set of histories and communities at least as much as it is a real definition of an ethnic group. Further, since many Cape Malay people find their Muslim identity to be more salient than their "Malay" ancestry, there have also been many instances in which people in one situation were described as "Cape Malay", and were in another situation described as "Cape Muslim" by people both inside and outside of the community. From the early 1970s to the present, some members of this community--particularly those with a political allegiance to broader liberation movements in South Africa--may refer to themselves as "black" in the terms of the Black Consciousness Movement. The "Cape Malay" identity was also a subcategory of the so-called "Coloured" category in the terms of the apartheid-era government's classifications of ethnicity. Like many South Africans, people described in some situations as "Cape Malay" are often the descendants of people from many continents and religions.
But if there are those who shy from the label, there are also others who use the phrase "Cape Malay" as a proud marker of their own history and cultural identification.
The founders of this community were the first to bring Islam to South Africa. The community's culture and traditions have also left an impact that is felt to this day. Adaptations of traditional foods such as bredie, bobotie, sosaties and koeksisters are staples in many South African homes. And the Muslim community in Cape Town remains large and vibrant to this day, now much expanded beyond those exiles who started the first mosques in South Africa.
People in the Cape Malay community generally speak English and Afrikaans rather than Malay or other languages that their ancestors brought, though various Malay words and phrases are still employed in daily usage.
It is estimated that there are about 166,000 people in Cape Town who could be described as Cape Malay, and about 10,000 in Johannesburg. The picturesque Malay Quarter of Cape Town is found on Signal Hill, and is called the Bo-Kaap. Many Cape Malay people also lived in District Six before it was demolished; after its demolition, most were forced to move to so-called Coloured townships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Malay
I know this an old thread,but im going to indonesia in a few months [i live in oz] and wanted to know where I could find more information/archives/documents on indonesian/balinese etc slaves/exiles sent to the cape?
I'm australian born but of south african origin,im pretty sure i have indonesian or asian ancestry of some kind
and wanted to learn more about the number of slaves brought in an from what areas?
When my mum was in indonesia she was only adressed in indonesian and im also mistaken for asian though im mixed.
when I was in the cape most of the malays looked malayasian,alot of mixed race 'coloureds' look indonesian. Our asian ancestry is something that has never been discussed e.g i didnt even know about it until a few years ago,its sad that we've been completely cut off from our roots.From photos ive seen of my paternal great grandfather he looked entirely asian though my father is anglo looking,and my maternal grandmother also looked asian[indonesian].
I'm australian born but of south african origin,im pretty sure i have indonesian or asian ancestry of some kind
and wanted to learn more about the number of slaves brought in an from what areas?
When my mum was in indonesia she was only adressed in indonesian and im also mistaken for asian though im mixed.
when I was in the cape most of the malays looked malayasian,alot of mixed race 'coloureds' look indonesian. Our asian ancestry is something that has never been discussed e.g i didnt even know about it until a few years ago,its sad that we've been completely cut off from our roots.From photos ive seen of my paternal great grandfather he looked entirely asian though my father is anglo looking,and my maternal grandmother also looked asian[indonesian].
^ interesting... I suggest you PM one of the user with the name bhaskara, he can help me thinks.
Hi Katiev, you can check out this thread that i posted on the Malaysia Serious Chat, there was some controversy as to whether the Cape Malays had been slaves or political exiles taken there by Dutch slave traders or colonial government. Whatever it is, the head of the Cape Malays seem to have come from Makassar, one of the spice islands in Indonesia. Check the thread out...
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...p;hl=cape+malay
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...p;hl=cape+malay
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