Fabulous talk by Noah Levine:

Why mindfulness is the training towards free will.

http://www.dharmapunx.com/mp3/nl_addiction_part1.mp3





So hows your sitting these days?

Please answer the question you have posed ...
Why is mindfulness is the training towards free will??

Isn't it the direction your mind takes first ... then the mindfulness that aids in that direction??

Well, my sitting has gotten more slack. There is no push of the master to urge me on toward my goals.
And, the quiet of the hall has been filled with the music of early days of my youth.
I'm old and tired. And wish so to rest now.

So?, How is your sitting these days??
Will you tells us tales of your personal journey and all the accomplishments you have achieved???

I am helping my brother with his meth addiction... that's my take on why mindfulness is the training towards free will... cuz i can see how that's the only thing that could help him overcome his slavery to his mind.

Where is your master? You surely don't mean the wind?

Why do you sit like the mind has a specific location that it resides in?

Howabout listening to dhamma talks after your sittings? I do that nowadays with dhamma talks by Thanissaro Bhikku.

I start off with a 20 min sit, I downloaded a self-timer app on my android that reminds me when the 20 mins is up. Then I play one of his talks. He gives possibly the most practical advice for those of us stuck in ruts or are weary. Download his dhamma talks here :

http://diydharma.org/audio/by/artist/thanissaro_bhikkhu

His voice reminds me of a war veteran. He's battled all the wars of the mind.

No, it was never the Wind.
Just that in the past, there were more motivation to move forward and practice more.
Now a days, I'm just feeling old and tired ... more lost
So, my wish is to relax and take the days as they come


Why do you believe in such theories about the mind???
Let go your preconceived ideas and practice
other wise you more lost than me!!!



Right now, I'm exploring the feelings I had in my youth ... mental journey of my past ... through the music I enjoyed

How is your brother dealing with his meth treatment??
Can you assess whether he truly wants to quit using or whether he is using the people around him to get what he wants???

It was a very difficult thing for me when my girl friend (notice the space between the words) and I were together.
She would lie and twist the truth around. Get angry at me. Push me away so she could do her drugs and pull me in again to get what she wanted.
I put up with it for about a year. She tore my heart apart and my mind was too feeble to understand.
The addict must truly get down to the turning point where they realize deep inside of themselves the truth of their addiction
and make a formidable decision to proceed with the actions necessary to rid themselves of their addiction.

Many times it won't work and they spiral down and back into the life of addiction.
Jail were times she returned to being the person we knew before the drugs.
Free again, the temptations brought her back to getting high. Nothing else mattered.
I couldn't go through it again and again. So, I had to cut off all contact with her.
One day I saw her standing in the streets near Hunts Point. She looked like she aged 30 years.
I just kept on driving past her. Sadly, I finally felt freed from my year in hell.

I only wish you success in your endeavors.

First of all. I want to say how are you doing? You know I like to pick on you. Hehehehe.

With the formality aside. Lets get right to your question: Why do you believe in such theories about the mind?

Now pay attention old man...the mind is empty because it is not tangible, cannot be conceptualized, imagined, directly perceived, or touched even at subatomic level we find no mind. No where to be found. Yet it's what we experience everyday. Simply because the mind is empty...to go further and review on dependent origination. All things exist in an interdependent manner. There is no single entity that can exist by itself. For example, a table is made of wood, wood comes from trees, trees come from a seed and conditions of water, soil, sunlight, and temperature. So things exist because of causes and conditions in that there is no inherent existence. This is why it's empty-no self because of interdependent existence or impermanence.

He's off his meds now but he still has these innate tendencies to take risk and embark on risky behavior because of the way his mind works. It's cool how he is beginning to notice his own thoughts and follow them through and tie up the loose ends. Before, he'd never follow his thoughts through and come to any completion, and he always found his situation hopeless and loses his energy in risky acts like gunning his bike and overtaking the police car in front of him and getting himself arrested.

He'll find his own inner resources to pay attention to his desires, the link to dependent origination, and react consciously and mindfully, rather than indulging the desire and grasping.

But I am cultivating my equanimity when he has lapses and helping my parents to maintain that too.

Sorry, I can't help you with your misconceptions.
I have tried to point you toward a more honest road
But, you will have nothing to do with it
As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
So, I will leave you to your delusions.


I hope you can truly assess his motivations
When I tried, I got anger thrown at me and other things to make me confused.
Many times there were concessions to go into rehab ... end result was a return to the addiction.
I was fooled many times. I only wish that you have more success.
good luck

I dunno avisitor... thanks for the good wishes.

I hope you understand what I said, Avisitor. It will be very helpful to you if you do. So think about it for a bit.

Look in the mirror and say those same words again to yourself.
You simply haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of getting to the true understanding
Not when you keep blinding yourself to your own words

Those who speak does not know. Those who know does not speak.

And I see you are mad, upset, frustrated, angry, grumpy, and seemly lashed out, and lastly offended but you don't understand why you continue to react in such way when you should be looking at where such thought arises from and where it's going.



Words are tool for communication but not a perfect way to communicate. That is why sometimes it is hard to convey a particular concept or understanding to people. Essentially Buddhism teaches us to change our thinking and our way of looking at the world through mediation and such in order to decrease suffering. Why do you have a problem with particular words that express Buddhist teachings? Buddhist teachings are to broaden your understanding but by no mean you are automatically realized enlightened. However, understanding of Buddhist teachings are essential and required before one can jump to meditation. So that the person will understand the meaning behind meditation or why she/he meditates. Meditation without understanding Buddhist teachings is like a person walking in the dark with no lights. Even monks have to study Buddhist teachings...therefore, your rejection is nonsense. And nobody is advocating only studying Buddhist teachings. But both teachings and practice of meditation are necessary. And most of us have to start study at the basic yet subtle and profound. Why? Because we have in the past approached Buddhism perhaps 'Zen' through false understanding and a big imagination of what emptiness is. So in that case, a proper understanding of Buddhist teachings is required if one is to seriously further pursue dharma or dhamma. Buddhism is a way of life not just some mumbo jumbo about big concepts. Yet these concepts are essential parts of teachings.

Since you keep mentioning pre-conceived ideas, let me hear your ideas and perhaps your true understanding. Then you should also hear what I have to say also and reflect through thinking instead of reacting to me with emotions. You don't have to agree with what I say but feel free to use reasoning to disagree.

Blind by my words or not is for me to know and it is not a concern of yours. You should be reflecting on what I say. Likewise, I also reflect on what you say if what you say is reasonable and logical.

It comes down to how honest you are in pursuing Buddhism. One should understand his own capacity and where he stands. If he is not honest, he will approach Buddhism for the sake of knowledge or material gains not because he wants to change the way he lives, thinks, and approaches the world. And he will also reject anything people say about Buddhist teachings as mumbo jumbo because he thinks he has a profound and better understanding of Buddhism. If he does, then why does he still suffer? The truth is we all don't until we do we will continue to suffer. I am not excluding myself from this category. So the point is about decreasing our suffering.

I know you don't like what I say because I am younger than you are and come of as an all-knowing guy to you. But remember until we are truly enlightened, we will always have some ego trip whether big or small. But I must thank you for your reminder. However, I am fully aware of my own issues that I am working on. But you ,on the other hand, might read too much into what I write in terms of my state of mind at the time of which you are not always correct. And I am not always wrong in my view of your approach to Buddhism, and I can see this through your questions and what you write about Buddhism. This you must admit. It is not a matter of my knowledge is better yours but a matter of honesty and reasoning.

Peace

You totally mis-interpret what I've said.
And, you believe me to be angry??, upset??, lashing out???
What are you stupid or something???

Please save your long diatribes for someone who cares.

Right now you are.

As always you react with emotions.

No, you read and interpret with emotions.
You process my post with emotions that you would have.
I don't have those things.

Please go back to you book about Buddha or whatever and continue reading
You'll get more yes answers to the questions you are asking.

Remember ... seek and you shall find ... even if it isn't there
You will find it cause you want to find it.

Good luck to you and your future endeavors
It was nice knowing you ... lol

I don't be mean to be harsh on you. But you should know your own limits when you communicate with me. And medication is a poor excuse every time.

It took Nelson Mandela over 30 years of solitude and much of it spent on quiet contemplation, it took Aung Sung Suu Kyi over 20 years of solitude and much of it spent on vipassana insight meditation, it took countless time to achieve freedom of the mind, let alone freedom of the body.

Why waste time arguing my fellow friends on your freedom?

You'd rather take offense than to learn the lesson available.
Please restrict your posts to those who wish to learn from your mistakes.


There is no argument.
And it is never a waste of time to speak your mind.
It opens up your mind and heart ... it makes for a nicer world to be in

Yes, thank you for reminded me. I processed that.

But you have not learned what I discussed with you. And you still react in the same manner after but in a crafty way. This is due to retaliation and anger.
Therefore, you have not learned the lesson available.

Why do you still impose your emotions on my posts???

When I read your posts, I laugh at how hard you try to keep your composure and pronounce me the fool
Gladly, I'll take that role if you stop teaching from your mind and reach into your heart and feel what I have to give to you.
Then you will know what there is in this world and what is beyond this world.

Sorry, the meds took over again ... please continue your discourse
I'm sure someone might want to read it.

Controlling your anger is the first step toward awareness of it, which you have failed to do most of time.

Heart is for pumping blood. Mind is nowhere to be found. Try to sit and find your mind? The mind that can be found is the deluded mind.

There is no anger ... it is all frustration with you battling your mind and using me as the pawn to keep score.
Please no more of your delusions. I have enough of my own.

No sir. I know my own delusions well. It is you who cannot tell whose delusions you are experiencing. .

You are unaware of your own delusions.
That is why it is called a delusion.

Watch where you walk or you'll step in your own piss

No. I am aware of my own delusion, but I cannot get it rid of it yet.

Don't be offended when I tell you that you do need to study Buddhism. It is only good for your meditation so that you will walk in the dark with some lights.

I know where I am going even if I have to crawl.

I'm glad to see you hold yourself in such high value.
Does the one hand clap ... does it talk truth to you??

Crawl if you wish ... men choose to walk upright
Beware of your own pride...

Thank you for your advice. I am very humble at this moment.

GW, if u have the time and inclination listen to the way thanissaro bhikku gives his dhamma talks here after your recitation practices. He's an american monk who speaks in conventional language, not in obsurantist language like so many eastern monks that regurgitate the canons or sutra commentaries.

http://diydharma.org/audio/by/artist/thanissaro_bhikkhu

The one titled "The Point of Suffering" is especially good and helpful in the direction of your practice. Get from your gross 'self' to a subtle 'self'. Letting go off clinging from the grosser aggregates to the subtle aggregates.

Letting go all-at-once is not the whole point, it's about constructing what to let go off, from the gross to the subtle.

No, I don't have the inclination to. But thank you for your suggestion.

No offense to you in anyway. But I am happy with the resources that I have right now.

I think you should give it a rest. In the same manner, I don't offer you any particular teachings of Mahayana by suggesting you to read this and that. I have suggested that you do investigate into Mahayana teachings on your own, however.

The bottom line is be clear about where I am coming once again. I can't repeat myself enough. In short, stop making suggestions. If I want to learn more, I will do it on my own. So I hope we are clear on this.

I find it irrating that you keep doing that.

UNBELIEVABLE! I was away from here for several months, and you guys (Avisitor and GW) continue the same nonsensical controversy! What is your problem guys? I mean it! What the hell is your real problem?!?

I recommend to you the balkanic approach to harmonization of doctrinal disputes: RAKIA and chalga.

1. First step: forget about pills and other sh*t and get drunk...



2. Second step: Embrace one another and listen to decadent music:

Balkan TURBO-FOLK about male friendship

3. Third step: Just be happy!

Cheers!

I feel exactly the same about you ...


My real problem lies in the eyes of the beholder. Guess that means you are my problem???

Wow, Balkan folk music sounds absolutely arabic!

Good. We have something in common.

We have more than that in common.
I just choose to not share with you cause you only believe you are better
So, how is the weather up there .. sitting on your high horse???

Granted since you are desperately believing that you are right.

Desperate???
Are you so discerning as to see my desperation in my words as I denounce your practice as foolish and insincere???
Come and gives us a crumb of your understanding ....

If Wisdom can be grasped, then it's not Wisdom.

How about that for a crumb?

Pitiful ... just pitiful
You want to play with words and have people think that you are so smart???
You sound like a silly child who doesn't understand the world but plays in a made up world by himself
If wisdom can't be understood then it isn't really wisdom ... but some poor schmuck sounding like an a-hole ...
Wisdom isn't for the hermit or the readers of Buddha's sutras or dharmas ... it is for all to learn and understand
that's what makes it wisdom

Better luck with the book learning

I'd rather be the innocent child who laughs under the plum tree
Than speaking of wisdom like it's intelligence
I refuse to understand the world
I rather try to understand suffering
What its cause
Upon some contemplation,
I see grasping to various things such as intelligence
is the cause of suffering
Like I need these things to live
When all I need is food and shelter
How can the mind be lonely when it's no where to be found?
What company does it need?
Book learning is amazing.
Only fools cannot see through words
That he only see words
But not his attachment to words.

There his ego shows he called the other man a child
Without realizing the innocent child within has not born yet.
For he is too lazy to open a book.
His conception has not begun
How can he have the innocent child?

He'd rather be concerned which mountain is higher
Without realizing that mountains come in different sizes
Some high and short
Like the flowers in the garden some red, brown, and yellow
He wants to understand Zen
But he cannot understand that emptiness
cannot be separated from Dependent Origination
as things arise, abide, and disintegrate
Where is inherent self but emptiness?
He can see this?
Or he only sees words?

How can he not see that existence
is but causes and conditions
How can he not see that body
is conditioned by earth, water, wind, and fire
without air, he ceases to be
without water, he ceases to be
without temperature, he ceases to be
without food, he ceases to be
Then how can he not see
that consciousnesses are also conditioned
where then is the inherent self or entity
that cannot be caused like many claims a creator to be
then what is there
empty mind or emptiness of inherent existence
it's empty that's why it's inherent
for it is empty
it cannot be caused
can he grasp this conceptually? no
but he can see
But he must not mistake emptiness for nothingness or complete darkness
as this the case of nihilism
there is existence now
what makes it not exist or nothingness then?
can he not see?
from emptiness, everything arises
this the origin of all things, the universe and such

maybe this "scholar" is too lame for him to pay attention to
book reading is amazing
if he can only see pass his attachment

double posted sorry *error*

GW, nice poem.

But it is implicit in the discussion of right effort involved in mastering skill to the point of its own transcendence, that the goal of the meditative practice is not an effort to return to a supposedly pure state of childlike awareness prior to social conditionings.

According to Buddhist analysis, the state of a child's mind is one, not of purity, but of ignorance filled with the potential for many unskilled qualities.

These qualities show themselves in seemingly innocent ways simply because the infant's intellectual and physical powers are weak. Once those powers are strengthened, the mind's potentials become manifest. As one modern teacher has stated, the childlike mind is the source for the round of rebirth.

If it were truly pure and fully aware, it would not be susceptible to unskillful social conditioning. Thus the way to purity lies, not in renouncing one's developed intellectual powers, but in developing those powers to higher levels of mastery and skill.

This explains why right exertion is a necessary part of the practice.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...t2.html#part2-c

Sorry but GW's poem only shows his lack of true understanding
Especially when he says that all he needs is food and shelter to live.
A man is not a thoughtless wonder .. he has needs to learn and reason
He needs the struggle to survive to keep him alive ... to have spirit
What a thoughtless oaf GW really is to keep pretending he knows more than anyone
and to continue to profess the wonders of his book learning.

But, the point is moot. He really has gone off the deep end and lost his way ... again!!!
Why do you encourage his lack of practice?? Do you think his rants ... will ever bring him closer to the truth???
You said it yourself, "right exertion is a necessary part of the practice".

He is being mindful however imperfect it may be. The chinese have a saying "Zhou Huo Lu Mo", i don't think he's lost his way. The dhamma path is gradual.


Many counsellors come to the meditation retreats that i am helping to organise. Its natural for him to wanna share his dhamma knowledge with his patients and clients. It's a kinda "service" he feels this urge to give. However, he may become more skillful at administering his interpretation of the dhamma by being skillful in becoming intuitively aware that his listeners' mind are sufficiently capable of understanding the dhamma he's about to speak of.



The Buddha's teachings are infused with this notion of gradual development. His method of "gradual instruction" (anupubbi-katha), which appears in various forms in countless suttas, always follows the same arc: he guides newcomers from first principles through progressively more advanced teachings, all the way to the fulfillment of the Four Noble Truths and the full realization of nibbana:

Then the Blessed One, having encompassed the awareness of the entire assembly with his awareness, asked himself, "Now who here is capable of understanding the Dhamma?" He saw Suppabuddha the leper sitting in the assembly, and on seeing him the thought occurred to him, "This person here is capable of understanding the Dhamma." So, aiming at Suppabuddha the leper, he gave a step-by-step talk, i.e., a talk on giving, a talk on virtue, a talk on heaven; he declared the drawbacks, degradation, & corruption of sensual passions, and the rewards of renunciation. Then when he saw that Suppabuddha the leper's mind was ready, malleable, free from hindrances, elated, & bright, he then gave the Dhamma-talk peculiar to Awakened Ones, i.e., stress, origination, cessation, & path. And just as a clean cloth, free of stains, would properly absorb a dye, in the same way, as Suppabuddha the leper was sitting in that very seat, the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye arose within him, "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."

I don't think AV we could disparage his Pure Land practice, which is not formal sitting meditation in solitude. But a 24-7-365 bludgeon in the mind to push out all impurities and hindrances and reach enlightenment.

Countless students over the centuries have invested their time and energy grappling with the question, "Is Enlightenment 'sudden' or is it 'gradual'?" These and other passages from the Canon make the Buddha's own view on the matter quite clear:

The mind develops gradually, until it is ripe to make that sudden leap to Awakening.

He does not. He thinks that he need to learn and reason.



Yes.



How come there be thoughtless. Am I not thinking right now? What sense do you make?



You can also have some book learning too. So that you can show off your intelligence to me.



I have my own path to walk. Only in your view, I am lost in my path.



I cannot speak of truths for you. I speak of book learning. Everything else is for you to figure out.
How can you speak of truths for me?

And what is truth in your understanding?



Right understanding. You don't just exert your own conjectures and called it right understanding.



This is generous of you. Let me use a crude term: I feel sorry for people, especially my old friend Avisitor.



It's more than that. It seems like a simple recitation, but it's not.


Agreed.



Tanga, and by innocent child, I mean wisdom. Not the ignorant habits of the child.

Mindfulness is the training needed to set the wheels in motion.
Necessary to make the mind ripe for the nature to burst out and dwell in the light

And goodness will follow me for the rest of my days ....
Please have a beer and remember the words of the teacher