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http://www.abc.net.au/ra/news/stories/s1327338.htm

3/19/2005

The remains of 105 Vietnamese soldiers killed during Hanoi's decade-long occupation of Cambodia have been found.

The remains were reportedly uncovered in Battambang province and Siem Reap.

The search for more Vietnamese remains will continue in the region for another month.

Vietnam began the search for its missing in action in July 2001.

Vietnamese military officials claims the bodies of some six thousand Vietnamese soldiers have been unearthed since 2001 and a further 13-thousand are still missing.

Hanoi has only recently acknowledged the human cost of its ten year intervention to overthrow Cambodia's genocidal Khmer Rouge regime.
abu
QUOTE (news @ Mar 20 2005, 02:36 AM)
http://www.abc.net.au/ra/news/stories/s1327338.htm

3/19/2005

The remains of 105 Vietnamese soldiers killed during Hanoi's decade-long occupation of Cambodia have been found.

The remains were reportedly uncovered in Battambang province and Siem Reap.

The search for more Vietnamese remains will continue in the region for another month.

Vietnam began the search for its missing in action in July 2001.

Vietnamese military officials claims the bodies of some six thousand Vietnamese soldiers have been unearthed since 2001 and a further 13-thousand are still missing.

Hanoi has only recently acknowledged the human cost of its ten year intervention to overthrow Cambodia's genocidal Khmer Rouge regime.
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I read about that one. I thought the KR killed more than what Hanoi is admitting now.
Byron
Hanoi claims about 20,000 died in the 10 year war. Too bad the Khmer Rouge will never tell how many they lost. Although some articles speculate about 200,000 died.
menghuy
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 20 2005, 07:05 AM)
Hanoi claims about 20,000 died in the 10 year war.  Too bad the Khmer Rouge will never tell how many they lost.  Although some articles speculate about 200,000 died.
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who the hell care about ah yuon
abu
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 20 2005, 07:05 AM)
Hanoi claims about 20,000 died in the 10 year war.  Too bad the Khmer Rouge will never tell how many they lost.  Although some articles speculate about 200,000 died.
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Sure the Commies have always been truthful with facts and numbers. If they say 1 you would know straight away to multiply it by at least 10 wouldn't you embarassedlaugh.gif2 .
Byron
QUOTE (abu @ Mar 20 2005, 01:48 PM)
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 20 2005, 07:05 AM)
Hanoi claims about 20,000 died in the 10 year war.  Too bad the Khmer Rouge will never tell how many they lost.  Although some articles speculate about 200,000 died.
*


Sure the Commies have always been truthful with facts and numbers. If they say 1 you would know straight away to multiply it by at least 10 wouldn't you embarassedlaugh.gif2 .
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Oh I don't think Vietnam ever gave out numbers for the Khmer Rouge. I got those numbers from some Western source. But the most humiliating thing for Khmers is that they lost the war in just 2 weeks and Vietnam ended up occupying Cambodia for about 10 years and Hun Sen(Vietnam's puppet) still rules.
abu
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 20 2005, 02:00 PM)
QUOTE (abu @ Mar 20 2005, 01:48 PM)
QUOTE (Byron @ Mar 20 2005, 07:05 AM)
Hanoi claims about 20,000 died in the 10 year war.  Too bad the Khmer Rouge will never tell how many they lost.  Although some articles speculate about 200,000 died.
*


Sure the Commies have always been truthful with facts and numbers. If they say 1 you would know straight away to multiply it by at least 10 wouldn't you embarassedlaugh.gif2 .
*



Oh I don't think Vietnam ever gave out numbers for the Khmer Rouge. I got those numbers from some Western source. But the most humiliating thing for Khmers is that they lost the war in just 2 weeks and Vietnam ended up occupying Cambodia for about 10 years and Hun Sen(Vietnam's puppet) still rules.
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With superior man power (8 to 1?) and some of the best military hardware of the time provided by their masters and comerades in Moscow it still took them two weeks to defeat a ragtagged army with only light weapons? You shouldn't be boasting about that. The KR slowly bled them white. After a few years the Commies in Hanoi were looking for an exit because their USSR paymaster couldn't afford to subsidise them anymore. And they lamely limped back with their tails between their legs.
flipcombatmedic
even before the Khmer rouge intervention, in the VN war, did N. Viets cross into Cambodia and Laos to not get bombed by Americans?
Byron
k
uncensored
QUOTE (flipcombatmedic @ Mar 21 2005, 06:27 AM)
even before the Khmer rouge intervention, in the VN war, did N. Viets cross into Cambodia and Laos to not get bombed by Americans?
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from what i learned in school, they did.
abu
When I read the part where you wrote
QUOTE
All of Cambodia was pretty much a jungle, so tanks aren't that much use
that's when I know where you are coming from embarassedlaugh.gif2 That's classic! It must been taken out from a history book written in 1900s.

QUOTE
8 to 1 manpower?  Vietnam's population is 8 times bigger than Cambodia, but Vietnam didn't send their whole population into Cambodia.


Nor did they entire Cambodian population do the fighting. They were in no position to carry arms. Hence only a small number of KR soldiers did the fighting and according to Dr David Chandler, a rputable Indochinese historian, they fought bravery despite being vastly outnumbered and outgunned.

QUOTE
Cambodia also had 16 F-6C warplanes supplied to them by China


embarassedlaugh.gif2 Dude read on with Chinese and Cambodian history but make sure it's not written by your comerades in Hanoi. China at the time was in no position to supply war planes, fuel or heavy weapons. They had just woken up from the Cultural Revolution. Today it's still a buyer of modern warplanes and weapons, not a supplier (in case you didn't know China is still lobbying the EU to life its arms embargo imposed since the Tianamin massacre). It seems you've never heard of that, but that's ok I'm willing to tutor you. And China did not whip your arse hard because they did not want to drag your paymaster into the war.

QUOTE
Khmer Rouge also had Chinese troops fighting for them as well


I'll laugh at that one, too. The KR had some Chinese military advisors, not an army of fighters. Get your facts right thumbsdown.gif

QUOTE
As for military hardware, the Khmer Rouge were funded by U.S, Thailand, and China.


They US ONLY provided diplomatic support. That's why the KR still had a seat at the UN. The Thai only started to supply the KR once they've regrouped at the border.

QUOTE
The Khmer Rouge never bled the Vietnamese white.  It was the US embargo. 


Fact: Your paymaster in Moscow stopped subsidising you. No more money and no more weapons. Cuban sugar alone could no sustain your losses in the jungles of Cambodia which have become your grave yards, according to David Chandler 200,000+ is a conservative figure. No US embargo bled you white. Your comerades Cuba (your sugar supplier) and North Korea are still standing strong with or without US embargo.
Byron
QUOTE
Nor did they entire Cambodian population do the fighting.  They were in no position to carry arms.  Hence only a small number of KR soldiers did the fighting and according to Dr David Chandler, a rputable Indochinese historian, they fought bravery despite being vastly outnumbered and outgunned.


But the Cambodian civilians did help the Khmer Rouge. Participating in a war doesn't mean you have to fight. There are many types of soldiers who in wars don't fight, such as transport drivers, combat medics etc.

Considering that guerrilla warfare cannot take off without help from civilians then it is safe to say Khmer civilians did participate by helping the Khmer Rouge.

QUOTE
Dr David Chandler, a rputable Indochinese historian, they fought bravery despite being vastly outnumbered and outgunned.


Fought bravely? lol yeah if running away and losing your country in a mere 2 weeks is considered brave.

QUOTE
Dude read on with Chinese and Cambodian history but make sure it's not written by your comerades in Hanoi.  China at the time was in no position to supply war planes, fuel or heavy weapons


Yes this site is a Hanoi commie site.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_411.shtml

QUOTE
China supplied 16 F-6Cs to the Khmer Rouge Air Force between 1975 and 1978. This particular aircraft survived the Vietnamese invasion in 1978, as well as the long war in the 1980s, and can today be seen in storage at the Army Museum in Phnom Penh. (Artwork by Tom Cooper)



QUOTE
I'll laugh at that one, too. The KR had some Chinese military advisors, not an army of fighters. Get your facts right thumbsdown.gif


This shows you aren't very knowledgable. In 1979, China made good on it's defense pact with Cambodia, and launched the Sino-Vietnam war hoping they can make Vietnam leave Cambodia.

QUOTE
Today it's still a buyer of modern warplanes and weapons, not a supplier (in case you didn't know China is still lobbying the EU to life its arms embargo imposed since the Tianamin massacre).


You tell me to brush up on my history, but you obviously don't know history. China has made fighter planes like Migs since that time period. You don't even have to make something to give it to another country. You can just take things you got from another country and then give it to a 3rd country.

QUOTE
They US ONLY provided diplomatic support. That's why the KR still had a seat at the UN. The Thai only started to supply the KR once they've regrouped at the border.


Yeah tell that to the Khmer Rouge who got $85 million from the US after they were removed from power.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_Third...Sam_PolPot.html

QUOTE
By January 1980, the US was secretly funding Pol Pots exiled forces on the Thai border. The extent of this support-$85 million from 1980 to 1986-was revealed six years later in correspondence between congressional lawyer Jonathan Winer...


QUOTE
Fact: Your paymaster in Moscow stopped subsidising you. No more money and no more weapons. Cuban sugar alone could no sustain your losses in the jungles of Cambodia which have become your grave yards, according to David Chandler 200,000+ is a conservative figure. No US embargo bled you white. Your comerades Cuba (your sugar supplier) and North Korea are still standing strong with or without US embargo.


Yeah that's rich. There are many levels of embargos. And Vietnam got the worst one. Even worse than what Cuba got.

http://www.zmag.org/viethealth.htm

QUOTE
In classifying Vietnam a "Category Z" country, Washington imposed sanctions more isolating than even those against Cuba. The World Bank was warned off and humanitarian aid was stopped or obstructed; the new British prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, persuaded the EU to halt shipments of milk to Vietnamese children. The American objective was to continue the war by other means


Vietnam got embargo from American allies like the EU as well, not just America.

Vietnam just promised to withdraw their troops in exchange for restabilishing diplomatic ties after the Soviet Union collapsed.

Fact is Vietnam won purely because their OBJECTIVES FOR THE WAR WERE MET.

Vietnam entered the war to overthrow the Khmer Rouge who were attacking Vietnam's borders.

That is mission accomplish as the Khmer Rouge never came back to power in Cambodia.

Vietnam's puppet Hun Sen still rules today.

The Khmer Rouge lost the war because their objectives of ruling Cambodia again never happened.

And I'll leave you with this tidbit.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_411.shtml

By mid-March 1979, the Vietnamese were in control of all the major towns and cities in Cambodia and about to install a puppet regime in Phnom Penh. However, despite brilliant planning and opportunities, they eventually failed to use every single opportunity to maul the Khmer Rouge and destroy its combat capability: instead they allowed a considerable number to retreat to their traditional strongholds in the Cardamom Mountains. It remains unclear how could this happen, but many observers concluded that this was an excellent reason for Hanoi to justify the continued presence of her troops in Cambodia.

It seems like Vietnam could have destroyed the Khmer Rouge from the very start but let many of them to escape so they can claim to the world that the Khmer Rouge still existed so they can continue to stay in Cambodia. icon_smile.gif

Of course the Khmer Rouge, Vietnam escaped were so badly beaten that if it wasn't for Thailand they would have collapsed.

http://www.yale.edu/cgp/thailand_response.html

After their overthrow in early 1979, the Khmer Rouge soldiers came to the Thai border in severe condition. They were in a state of famine. Many had been wounded and soon died. But they soon found a new lifeline for a revival and strengthening of their forces on an old enemy’s soil. The new alliance with Thailand offered the Maoist forces three main sources of income: Chinese arms supplies, aid relief supplies, and illegal business with the Thais. Without Thailand’s cooperation, the guerilla forces of Pol Pot would thus have been finished by the Vietnamese-PRK forces soon after their overthrow.

That's the only mistake I think Vietnam made was to let some of the Khmer Rouge escape, so they can tell the world that they should stay in Cambodia to provide security. I guess Vietnam didn't calculate properly that Thailand would probably help these battered Khmer Rouge while they were running away like cowards, to come back and create an insurgency in Cambodia like what the Iraq Insurgency is doing to the US.

But nevertheless the Khmer Rouge still failed and practically no longer exists at the end of the 1990's.
abu
^ embarassedlaugh.gif2 Keep reading and keep learning. It'scalled selective learning biggthumpup.gif . I especially like the pat where it reads something like...Cambodia was a jungle and no tanks could roll in. Classic!

All I have to say now is without its paymasters in Moscow at the time Vietnam would have starved like its Comerade, North Korea, is right now. One difference is North Korea is still powerful and sticks to its ideology.

And Vietnam had the worst embargo compared to Cuba and North Korea (its only remaining true comerades)??? embarassedlaugh.gif2

The KR bled Vietnam white without Moscow's support and they packed their bags and put their tails between their legs and went home.
Byron
QUOTE (abu @ Mar 23 2005, 05:56 PM)
^ embarassedlaugh.gif2  Keep reading and keep learning.  It'scalled selective learning  biggthumpup.gif .  I especially like the pat where it reads something like...Cambodia was a jungle and no tanks could roll in.  Classic!

All I have to say now is without its paymasters in Moscow at the time Vietnam would have starved like its Comerade, North Korea, is right now.  One difference is North Korea is still powerful and sticks to its ideology.

And Vietnam had the worst embargo compared to Cuba and North Korea (its only remaining true comerades)???  embarassedlaugh.gif2

The KR bled Vietnam white without Moscow's support and they packed their bags and put their tails between their legs and went home.
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It's funny how a Khmer is talking about how poor Vietnam is, when Cambodia is more poor.

Yeah the KR really bled Vietnam white. Yes 20,000 Vietnamese dead with the government that Vietnam put in power is still running things today.

If 20,000 dead is considered bleeding Vietnam white, then I guess 200,000 Cambodians dead is considered turning Cambodia into dust.

QUOTE
And Vietnam had the worst embargo compared to Cuba and North Korea (its only remaining true comerades)???  embarassedlaugh.gif2


Yeah and Cambodia doesn't need an embargo. The country is naturally poor. Which is why today it is still more poor than Vietnam was in the 1980s, and even Laos is more rich than Cambodia. embarassedlaugh.gif2

Putting an embargo on Cambodia wouldn't make a difference as they would still be poor without or without one.

What a joke, Cambodia is supposed to be a democracy and it is still going backwards, while Vietnam's economy is booming.

QUOTE
I especially like the pat where it reads something like...Cambodia was a jungle and no tanks could roll in.  Classic!


Yeah and at least I show articles showing my claims while you don't show jack $hit and just bring $hit out of your @$$.

I know deep down in your heart your crying about how your country only lasted for 2 weeks against our troops, and all your kind could do was hope the world would put enough diplomatic pressure on our troops to leave, as the KR could never remove them by force.

Our troops went in, kicked the Khmer Rouge out in 2 weeks, tried to keep peace and security in Cambodia for 10 years and then after we built up our puppet regime we left and that puppet still controls the country today. icon_smile.gif

QUOTE
All I have to say now is without its paymasters in Moscow at the time Vietnam would have starved like its Comerade, North Korea, is right now.  One difference is North Korea is still powerful and sticks to its ideology.


Vietnamese don't need help to deal with starvation. The Mekong delta in Vietnam is pretty fertile making Vietnam the 2nd largest rice exporter, and Vietnam is the 2nd largest coffee beans exporter and 1st in cashews.

So even if we didn't have the Soviet Union, we wouldn't be starving.

While Cambodia is pretty worthless and the country is starving today, and Cambodians would die during the war if it wasn't for UNICEF and food given by Vietnamese occupational forces. LOL

Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster. Without Vietnam, Cambodia would starve.

Did you know that most of the money Cambodia makes is from foreign donations? lol yeah Cambodia still has "paymasters" and without them, Cambodia would hardly have any money.
abu
In recent times Vietnam has become self-sufficient. True. But not in the 80s or early 90s.

embarassedlaugh.gif2 Without your paymaster you'll just eat dogs and grass.

QUOTE
Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster.  Without Vietnam, Cambodia would starve.


I don't remember Vietnam being a member of the consultative group of donors. From the top of my head they include, just to name a few, France, Japan, Australia and America all of whom are currently Vietnam's generous donors as well. Nothing for Vietnam to gloat about now is there?

embarassedlaugh.gif2 Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster ?<==== embarassedlaugh.gif2 embarassedlaugh.gif2

Keep it coming...I don't have to watch Seinfeld anymore.

QUOTE
Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster.  Without Vietnam, Cambodia would starve.

Did you know that most of the money Cambodia makes is from foreign donations?


Contradictions! sure.gif

^Read above. FACT: <==== Vietnam is not a donor country, but a recipient country! On an annual basis Vietnam requests and receives more than Cambodia. People living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.
Byron
QUOTE (abu @ Mar 23 2005, 11:09 PM)
In recent times Vietnam has become self-sufficient.  True.  But not in the 80s or early 90s. 

embarassedlaugh.gif2  Without your paymaster you'll just eat dogs and grass.

QUOTE
Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster.  Without Vietnam, Cambodia would starve.


I don't remember Vietnam being a member of the consultative group of donors. From the top of my head they include, just to name a few, France, Japan, Australia and America all of whom are currently Vietnam's generous donors as well. Nothing for Vietnam to gloat about now is there?

embarassedlaugh.gif2 Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster ?<==== embarassedlaugh.gif2 embarassedlaugh.gif2

Keep it coming...I don't have to watch Seinfeld anymore.

QUOTE
Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster.  Without Vietnam, Cambodia would starve.

Did you know that most of the money Cambodia makes is from foreign donations?


Contradictions! sure.gif

^Read above. FACT: <==== Vietnam is not a donor country, but a recipient country! On an annual basis Vietnam requests and receives more than Cambodia. People living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.
*




QUOTE
Vietnam is Cambodia's paymaster


Oh I'm sorry, but after seeing how Hun Sen is bending backwards for Vietnam all the time doing stuff like giving us land or letting our people come into your country easily, I was mistaken that Vietnam was paying Cambodia for that.

So I guess Vietnam doesn't need to be Cambodia's paymaster to take advantage of Cambodia. Cambodia sucks Vietnam's d!ck for free. icon_smile.gif

QUOTE
Vietnam is not a donor country, but a recipient country!  On an annual basis Vietnam requests and receives more than Cambodia.  People living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.


According to the World bank, Vietnam's Aid per capita is $15.9 while for Cambodia's it is $37.9.

Cambodia gets more than twice the foreign aid per person than Vietnam does.

Also most of the "donation" money Vietnam gets is from overseas Vietnamese. So it's Vietnamese giving money to other Vietnamese.

QUOTE
In recent times Vietnam has become self-sufficient.  True.  But not in the 80s or early 90s. 


There's a difference between having money and food. Even in the 1980s and early 1990s according to the World bank, Vietnam's starvation rate was low. The only high starvation rates were on minorities like the Khmer Krom and Montagnards.

So I hope you enjoy gloating about embargoes on Vietnam because the real ones suffering are your Khmer Krom. icon_smile.gif
abu
QUOTE
So I guess Vietnam doesn't need to be Cambodia's paymaster to take advantage of Cambodia.  Cambodia sucks Vietnam's d!ck for free.  icon_smile.gif


^Haha embarassedlaugh.gif2 Very mature!

QUOTE
According to the World bank, Vietnam's Aid per capita is $15.9 while for Cambodia's it is $37.9.


So it's true! This just proves that your claim that Cambodia is living on foreign while Vietnam is not is WRONG! embarassedlaugh.gif2 Did your parents teach you not to spit against the wind, it might come back and hit you in the face. And in this case it has hit you right in the face.

QUOTE
Cambodia gets more than twice the foreign aid per person than Vietnam does.


Hardly the point. The point is Vietnam is a recipient of foreign aid (a happy one)just like any developing country. Not a donor country as some of my wise man wannabe in here claimed earlier.

QUOTE
Also most of the "donation" money Vietnam gets is from overseas Vietnamese.  So it's Vietnamese giving money to other Vietnamese.


Now that one comes from your own stats. embarassedlaugh.gif2 You made it up yourself. Foreign aids come from foreign governments, foreign NGOs and international finanacial institutions such as the Asian Development Bank and the World Bank. Get you head straight. Money sent by overseas Vietnamese is not included in the official stats sure.gif

QUOTE
There's a difference between having money and food.  Even in the 1980s and early 1990s according to the World bank, Vietnam's starvation rate was low. The only high starvation rates were on minorities like the Khmer Krom and Montagnards.


embarassedlaugh.gif2 Very mature. Call yourself the statistics maker.

QUOTE
So I hope you enjoy gloating about embargoes on Vietnam because the real ones suffering are your Khmer Krom. 


Just reminding my wise man wannabe here to keep in mind that Vietnam is a recipient of foreign aid just like Cambodia as opposed to an earlier claim that Vietnam is one of the aid donor countries biggthumpup.gif (still find the claim acutely amusing till now embarassedlaugh.gif2 )
RockHeart
Its so amazing conversation between boths you guys!! So...continue it again and again!!


RH,

cool30.gif
flipcombatmedic
QUOTE (uncensored @ Mar 21 2005, 02:13 PM)
QUOTE (flipcombatmedic @ Mar 21 2005, 06:27 AM)
even before the Khmer rouge intervention, in the VN war, did N. Viets cross into Cambodia and Laos to not get bombed by Americans?
*

from what i learned in school, they did.
*


well this is no surprise then
Johnny
AHHAHAHAAHh FUNNY Viet AND Cambo Bashing EaCh other, Very Entertaining to Read... Rockheart... where have u been.... i miss u mate.... beerchug.gif
RockHeart
QUOTE (Johnny @ Apr 3 2005, 09:27 PM)
AHHAHAHAAHh FUNNY Viet AND Cambo Bashing EaCh other, Very Entertaining to Read... Rockheart... where have u been.... i miss u mate....  beerchug.gif
*




Now!! Its time for you and i have a conversation, huh!!! I've been on wherever on the earth that I living. None of your business! You GOT it...



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