not including the earlier works, ie Bruce Lee movies and WW2 adoptation of two weapon system in the American Armed Forces...


Filipino Martial Arts in American Movies

http://marco.typepad.com/marco_online/2004...ino_martia.html

What does Bourne Identity (staring Matt Damon) and The Hunted (starring Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio del Toro) have in common? The movie used Filipino Martial Arts! A few months back a friend of mine training in Jujitsu had told me about it. I totally forgot. But today was Toilet Yoga day. I pulled this Filipino FHM issue, part of Cai’s “pasalubong” (simple present or little gift?) a year ago and read an article about Submission Fighting. It was interesting and made me search the net. I found out more about it! The movie Kiss of the Dragon (Jet Li), has an awesome Arnis fight scene against 30 (I’m guessing) policemen in martial arts training. Blade 2 has used FMA Eskrima and so has Star Wars-Attack of the Clones and Phantom Menace. Also most of Steven Segal’s stick fighting scenes feature Arnis or Eskrima(?).

I found out that FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) is categorized as a style. It is not commercially well known because it has been kept underground and the Filipinos rarely advertise it. It is popular and used by police and military Special Forces around the world. The FMA systems are also based on real-scenario fighting. I mean when you are in a brawl, you can’t go kicking or flying, it’s not realistic. FMA is for the real world.

The FMA used in the two quite recent movies was “Kali.” Read this history of Kali if you are interested. I did not know that Lapu Lapu – the national hero of the Philippines, used Kali against the Spaniards and Magellan in 1521. Also, the three most thought FMAs are Arnis, Kali, and Eskrima.

As a side note, I now realize how privileged I was back then. I truly am. During college, my school (UST) Martial Arts Guro (teacher) Grand Master Ernesto Presas had thought us Arnis, Arnis de Mano. It's part of our curriculum. He’s known worldwide and is the brother of the late GM Remy Presas. They have trained police and military Special Forces around the world. I even have one of his autographed books. Wooha! Um, Cai, do you still have that book? It’s with the rest of all my books under your bed? Anyway, when I get a chance, I’ll probably get back into it.

You study Kali or another form of FMA, combatmedic?

I'm currently studdying kali with these guys

sulwankali.com

naw i wanted to go and join Arnis de Mano, but it was expensive. It was run by this Chinese guy, and the whole dojo is mostly white. Not that it mattered but it was not efficient for me to pay high for something that i wouldn't be able to focus on.

right now actually i'm into boxing, just started. i was just getting my leg movement and hand movement. i'm planning to add either kickboxing or mixed martial arts later on. but for now boxing. it's a fun logical sport.

i wish it was like so here in colorado, where alot of Filipinos gather to help me out with Arnis, but it's okay for now.

Me either. There is no real proof for this.

It seems that Ernesto Presas is a really popular guy.

but's it's not unlikely, since the art was there before the Spanish.

There's no proof of this either.

true because the people's did not really leave alot of written history, nor were those who had writings put it in materials that stay. but most probably it did, since most scholars argue that it came from India through the Sri Vijaya, centuries before the Spanish and Europeans arrive. Especially most practitioners actually came from the Visayas (came from "Sri Vijaya") region which include Panay, the said origin of most orthodox form, Cebu and Mactan (Lapu's home) and the Eastern Visayas (ie Letye and Samar) where my pop's mom's brother learned the traditional way.

also the art form even up to the seventies are still considered secrets, so it's even harder to find it's history.

What's the "most orthodox form"?

Pekiti Tirsia of Panay

http://www.pt-go.com/history_intro.asp

Mya be true. May be not.



Four generations would not put them before the time of the Spanish arrival.

There is no real proof that the kali art of Filipino stick fighting actually came from India either.

Silat certainly was in the southern Philippines and Kali/Silat/Kuntao go hand in hand

Kinda like how there was Sabong in the Philippines way before the gringos arrived.


The spaniards made the sport popular everywhere alse they conquered, but not the Philippines, it was already there.

but then again we can't prove that it was created only when the Spanish arrived...

it is in great hypothesis that this art form was created original or even before the Spanish why? when we're similar martial arts formed, before the age of colonialism and originally by indegenous peoples

i'm not saying that the Spanish have not influenced, because they have leeched and opened every corner of the Filipino culture, but doesn't mean they created or originated the art, or even if the art started after their arrival.

just because the terminology ie escrima and arnis is used, doesn't mean the art is Spanish itself.

it is stronger to believe that the art originated before and originally with Filipinos--or should I say ancient inhabitants of the archipelago.

Most orthodox form would have to be Serrada

It's way too "head-up" for me. I like the way there's alot more zoning in kali

Not sure about cockfighting but stick fighting as most know it today may have not been.

People maybe use kali and silat techniques together these days but it doesn't mean they have any real relationship to one another.

you know the funny thing about it is i could have had training on it for free, orthodox and original from my grandma's oldest bro. he's learned it back in the pre to post WW2 days in Visaya.

Maybe some people would rather like to believe it originated before the time of the Spanish but who is to really say. It doesn't seem like there is much proof for it, though.

You know supposedly people out in Venezuela practice a similar art to Filipino stick fighting. Anyone know of any Venezuelan stick fighters, personally?

there is one stick fighting art in the Canary Islands, but it doesn't mean that the the whole art form came from Canary Islands as well as the Venezuelan "stick fighiting" technique. For all we know they all evolved independently like Muay thai and boxing. or Greco-Roman and Korean wrestling.

I mean what tells people that Filipinos could not have originated the art form? Just cuz there are no written evidence? Other Asians, even more related Malayan people, developed Martial arts why can't it be possible.

Well "no written evidence" could be a reason for one. As for other Asians, some eat with chopsticks it doesn't mean Filipinos do too.

Anyway, you seem to be a little overly defensive here. I am not saying "Filipinos could not have originated the art form". I'm simply saying there is no proof for modern Filipino stick fighting existing before the arrival of the Spanish.

Sounds like you've done some research into the FMA.

For a fact the inhabitants of what is now called the Philippines had weapons, right? Do you think they just winged it, or do you think they might have trained in something first?

I mean of course the practices of today probably isn't the same as it was back then... I doubt they used sticks to defend themsleves.

instead they probably used these


Oh BTW we were the one’s who revolutionized modern boxing and changed it to how the sport is played today.

From what my relatives tell me both my lolo's were arnisadors. The kali term is new to me though, ive heard of escrima and Cuntaw(chinese filipino ma). Does it have anything to do with the "kalis" illustrimo style from cebu?,

There is no written evidence because it was banned, the only means of preserving it was orally from father to son, and by showcasing it as a dance. I definately believe it predates the spanish, its not like we didnt have anyone else to fight LOL.

Yeah like right now I do drills that look like the muslim dances from the souther Philippines and it looks extremely gay...


I don't know about what your uncles practiced (mine practiced Judo ) but if i imagine it's kinda like serrada and they just go toe to toe with whoever. With kali there is ALOT more zoning and footwork involved. You use alot more angles getting to your oponnent or opponents outside.

Here's a realy good site about the history of the early masters
http://www.prodigymartialarts.com/kali.htm

A little.


I’m not doubting that they had weapons before the time of Spanish colonization nor that they had some method of fight style before the Spanish came. Since the dawn of man I think people were fighting with one another and using whatever they can find as weapons. I don't get your point here.


True, look at the modern day fencers you see in the Olympics I am sure they way they fight is much different from some medieval knight back in the day with a broad sword. Some where along the line in Europe people probably switched from using the heavy two handed broad sword to the thin wire like fencing sword you see today in the Olympics. When did it happen or how it happened exactly I don’t know. I am sure that most can agree though that the techniques and style of a modern Olympic fencer and a medieval knight from back in the day is completely different. They are not the same. I would also go so far to say the same thing about the FMA you see in movies and what ever it was that Filipinos were doing before the time of the Spanish. They are not the same, two completely different things.


Really? I didn’t know I will have to look that up. I heard that there were some good light weight Pinoy fighters back in the day, though. So what happened? It seems like Pacman is the only one now.


Yes, Kali Illustrisimo is a style of Kali. The founding father of that style is Antonio Illustrisimo.


Contrary to popular belief many Filipinos especially in the Visayas were allowed to practice their art with no disguise. After all the Spanish did use Filipinos in their army to combat other rebellious Filipinos.


I checked out the site and this,
"Kali," the mother of escrima and arnis de mano, is the preferred reference by its practitioners.
Is another myth. There is no proof of this. The one man probably responsible for the perpetuation of this myth is Dan Inosanto, one of the men mention on the site. Insoanto was a close friend of Bruce Lee and help introduce FMA to the rest of the world through his book Filipino Martial Arts. By the way he was also a "Kali" practioner.

I feel like I'm talking to Dalawapo



Yeah alot of people feel that Kali was never even used in the Philippines and when you ask alot of people there they have never even heard of the term... yada Yada Yada but my grandmaster is Sulwan and he is a Moslem from mindanao.


Even if Kali was just a term coined now... Silat certainly was there, or are you saying that the Spaniards introduced that to us as well? Silat is the true Mother of FMA.

because modern arnis or escrima is not absolute original anymore at all even when Inosanto (that Bruce Lee movie) busted it out. In fact many books will say that it has "Spanish and Chinese" influence in it. that's why it's more widely known as "arnis or escrima" both of which are Spanish derived.

and i'm not overly defensive, you say your part of your belief and i say a piece of mine, how is producing sides overly defensive now?

I hope that is a compliment. I have had this same discussion with Dala a while back as well. He got owned. He did put up a lot better fight in my opinion by the way.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...topic=23305&hl=


What? Anyway, if you are referring to silat I would now think that is Indonesian in origin and not Filipino in origin.


Interesting, what's the Chinese influence?


When you say Spanish derived what do you mean?


Like Horitaka you seem to be putting words in my mouth. Or at least arguing some point I’m not trying to make.



Tell me how is it that you guys have come to ask me such questions. Did I say FMA of stick fighting is a Spanish product and not a Filipino one? Look back on this thread and show me where. What I am saying there is no real proof that it was originated by Filipinos before the time of the Spanish. If you would like to argue this point feel free to say what you like.

Interesting, what's the Chinese influence?

beats me. i don't know the art specifics. but many articles ie Nation Master had put it there, and it's no surprise Danny I and Lee were friends...so modern ones (most MA of today even) are mixture of martial arts, most of which are either Japanese or Chinese derived

that's why it's more widely known as "arnis or escrima" both of which are Spanish derived

the words themselves. however some Filipinos call the art on what wood they use to make the sticks.

Escrima is directly derived from the Spanish word for "skirmish". However, I can't exactly say the same for arnis.

this what that article in Nation Master.com said:

"The name Eskrima is the Filipino spelling which comes from Spanish-language esgrima, "fencing". The name Arnis is thought to derive from the phrase arn鳠de mano, Spanish for "harness of the hand". "

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/F...no-Martial-Arts

Fencing? What is the Spanish word for fencing? El cercar? Skirmish seems closer, escaramuza. But I guess you can also say fencing and skirmish have the same meaning in English.

As for Arnis de mano being "harness of the hand" I guess that would be a true translation in Spanish. However, I generally think of the art simply as Arnis and not all practitioners of "Arnis" will call their style Arnis de Mano, either. Anyway, to call your fighting style "harness" would be a little strange don't you think? A better translation for "Arnis de mano" may be "Arnis of the hand".

At least Escrima is derived from a word that has some meaning directly related with fighting.

like i said some filipino call it even on what material on how the wood was made, showing the liberality and flexibility of the usage. ie Kamagong

in fact most filipinos do the same, ie call colgate for toothpaste. the terminology usage is very flexible. so Arnis for sure is just a shortened term taken from "Arnis de Mano"

”For sure”? It may be or it may not be but I wouldn’t be so confident to make that statement.


True, so tell me which Arnis de mano practitioners uses a harness in their art? Is it something that plays an important part? Would you name your art after something in which you may have used to carry your sticks?

I am not saying the word “arnis” doesn’t have some origin in Spanish but I don’t think it is a direct derivative of Spanish in the same manner as the word “esrcima” is.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but when i say Silat was there first I mean most the muslims in mindanao prcticed silat and most will tell you to this day that they never heard of the term kali.

It might not be Filipino in origin now but before the Spaniards came, there was no dividing line between what is now Indonesia and what is now the Philippines.

Silat is a Filipino art... So is Kuntao

where else did it come from. in fact most call it Arnis de mano officially, and in laymens terms common Filipino use the term "arnis" much like they say "kamagong" which is but a piece of wood, yet that became the term for the sticks and the art itself in some parts.

if you understand Filipino and usage of words this isn't a big deal, pinoys always almost take the shorter term and use it like how everybody has a nickname in PI. in fact many Filipinos wouldn't know that "arnis" means "harness" the fact that it was called "arnis de mano" and a Filipino later started using "arnis" either because that's the only thing he remembers or that's how they shortened it, it's not uncommon in the Philippine language at all.

Ok, so this may be further proof that Kali is not the mother art and that kali was not pre-Spanish but more of a common term.


Before the Spanish came there was no “Philippines” or “Filipinos” but that’s besides the point.

Some say silat is very old and it has many different styles, which some may actually be only a few decades old. To tell you the truth I don’t know when silat entered the Philippines Islands. Do you?

Anyway, it’s really besides the point as well. In the US they practice Silat, Tae Kwan Do, Kenpo, Akido, etc. but how many of these people actually claim their martial art to be American? Sure some may have practiced silat in the PI for a long time and have developed their own styles. I wouldn’t be surprised. But basically silat is still silat at its base, an Indonesian art form.

When people refer to “Filipino Martial Arts” most people are not thinking of silat.


In case you are wondering both of the styles they used in Bourne Identity and The Hunted was kali not silat. Don’t mistake silat for being the same as kali, arnis or escrima. It is not.


A lot of people say this “officially” but how much substance does that claim really hold? You gave me the whole “piece of wood bit before” but you didn’t really answer my previous questions.


There are a lot of rumors to where it may have come from. It may have indeed come from the Spanish word for harness. Here’s a little story I told to Dalawapo before,

As for the name arnis, I’m telling you now it is not a Spanish word. During the early times of the Spanish colonization the Spanish would wear “arnes”, harnesses that came across their bodies like an “X”. This “X” also so happens to represent main hitting points of an arnis practitioner. Though some may believe this is how the name originated it in no way makes it a Spanish word. It is entirely Filipino, the two words have completely different meanings. If you are looking for an adopted Spanish name for Filipino stick fighting it would be escrima which is directly derived from the Spanish word for skirmish.

Ok, now maybe you are wondering why I’m giving an example of how the word “arnis” is directly related to the Spanish word for harness. If that’s the case you would have been missing the point I made in my last post.

I am not saying the word “arnis” doesn’t have some origin in Spanish but I don’t think it is a direct derivative of Spanish in the same manner as the word “esrcima” is.

In layman’s terms a better translation for “Arnis de mano” may be “Arnis of the hands”.


This is not a fact. It is an assumption.


Again a lot of Asians use chopsticks, Filipinos don’t. Does it mean Filipinos aren't Asian? No, it doesn’t really mean much now does it? So what if people like to cut down on the words they have to say? It doesn't justify what you are trying to claim here as a fact.

It is the point because the people of the island of what is now Indonesia and the Philippines were, and alot of ways still, the same.

Silat is a FMA



In Southern Philippines, Silat is used in dances, as martial arts, and as games... In Mindanao, at its base, a Filipino art form.





tell that to the Moros of the south

Most people think of Arnis/Escrim when they think of FMA but have you ever been to Mindanao? Better yet, have you ever met a muslim Filipino that has imiigrated to the united states let alone start teaching his art?

Hey item so no one really knows what "Kali" means? you did say that "Kalis" Illustimo is a kali style? and i remember someone telling me Kalis was a word derived from "Kris" as in the sword lol, so which one is it?

Ok, then I’ll play along. Legend has it that silat was first developed on the island of Java. You got a map? While we are at it why don’t we say Tae Kwon Do is Filipino as well. There are quite a few Filipinos who practice Tae Kwon Do in the PI.


So Filipinos adopted silat in to their dances. Filipinos have adopted a lot of things from different cultures. Does this mean that silat did not come from Indonesia?

As for these dances you are talking about can you give me a timeline on when people developed them? Was it during the time of Spanish colonization? Just curious?


Sure.


No, I have never been to Mindanao. Have I meet Filipinos from Mindanao? Plenty.

Hey, they got this martial arts school near where I live it’s called Ray’s Tae Kwon Do. Ray is Filipino, by the way. Say if after a few generations he is able to keep his school going and he passes his practice down to his kids and so. Would that mean his style is no longer Korean but Filipino or American?

Now I wouldn’t go so far to say this is exactly the same as what is going on with silat in the PI. I am sure there are Filipinos who take pride in their style of silat and they call it their own but...

I’ll tell you what, you want to consider it a Filipino thing fine but you said it your self right here.


Personally I think if there is any true Filipino Martial Art then it would be Kali/Arnis/Escrima.

Question for you, have you ever met a Muslim from Mindanao who doesn’t really considers him self as a “Filipino” but a “Mindanaoan”? Then do you think he would actually consider his silat to be a “Filipino Martial Art”?


These days Kali is generally used as another word for FMA (Arnis/Escrima). By the way, I think it is actually Kali Illustimo and not kalis. Kalis is supposed to be a term for a bladed weapon, like a kris. Some claim that kali was taken from kalis but we don’t really know for sure. Some also try to claim that kali comes from the name of the Hindu Goddess Kali, but again this is something that can not be proven. There are many theories of how people came about to use the word kali for FMA but who knows for sure what’s the correct one.

here is what i found..thanks to pareng Google..
instead of me putting it in my own words..i decided to paste it for a quick reply..

Arnis: A Question of Origins

~Arnis, also known as KALI, ESCRIMA, BASTON, etc. is a complete martial art system, encompassing weapons training and empty-hand self-defense

~It includes training in single stick techniques (solo baston), double stick techniques (doble baston), stick and knife or dagger techniques (espada y daga) and knife techniques (daga).

~Some styles may include staff and spear (sibat) training in their curriculum. Others will include the practice of medium to long bladed weapons (bolo) in their repertoire.
~Many styles have some form of empty hand combat, encompassing striking, kicking, locking, throwing and even choking methods..

~These are usually taught when the practitioner has demonstrated a reasonable degree of proficiency with the weapons of his style of arnis. Different arnis styles, from different parts of the country, may emphasize different areas of the training methods noted above..

~The term arnis is believed to be a Tagalog corruption of the Spanish term arnes, or harness, a reference to the decorations worn by the early Filipinos. Kali is another term used to refer to the same kind of martial arts.

~Different provinces may have different names for arnis, such as baston and kaliradman (Ilonggo, Bisaya), pagkalikali (Ibanag) and kalirongan (Pangasinan). These are only a few examples of the terms already recorded in different sources.
~where did such a complete martial art system come from?
~One suggestion is that it originally came from another martial art system, called TJAKALELE

~This is actually the name of a branch of the Indonesian martial art system known as PETNJAK SILAT. Another suggestion is that it was brought here from the Southeast Asian mainland, particularly during the Madjapahit and Shri-Visayan
EMPIREs.

~Yet another suggestion is that it was propagated by the so-called ten Bornean datus fleeing persecution from their homeland. We shall critically examine these assertions one at a time.

~The idea that ARNIS Evolved or was DERIVED from another martial art system, namely tjakalele silat, is due to linguistics. The alternative name for arnis is kali
~ It is widely held that this is the older term for arnis, and that kali itself emphasizes bladed weaponry apart from practice with the stick.

~It is not surprising that a connection could be seen between the term kali and tjakalele. However, linguistic similarity alone is not enough ground to assert that kali was indeed derived from tjakalele.

~Another oft-quoted idea is that kali was brought here during the Shri-Vishayan (7th -14th centuries and Madjapahit (13th -16th centuries) empires. This reflects the notion that the Philippines then was somehow an integral part of both empires
must be noted that the archaeological evidence for the role of the Philippines in both empires is very meager

~About the best that could be said is that there was commercial contact, but whether such contact also included the spreading of martial arts is circumstantial at best.
FOR MORE INFO:http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/arnis.html
whereever Arnis came from..fortunately it is already known and considered as Philippine's martial art..thanks to Danny Anosanto along side of Bruce Lee hihihi he made it more well known
http://pacificcoast.net/~ttruscott/arnis.html

thanks, that's the Indian roots I was talking about. This dojo CCMA, that's what they posted on the Arnis history

Parungao the very first Filipino to fight in the old school UFC, where the only rules are no biting and no eye gouging, you can do just about anything.

I wonder what this guy trained in? Whatever it was, this guy's preety brave stepping in with a guy that looks like he's 2.5X his size. Lok at their arms compared to each other when they're on the ground


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcN-HBolMgk

Was he the winner in that match?

Yeah did you finish it?

The other dude tapped out


Now we got Brandon "The Truth" Vera. That guy's bad @$$!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SGfbpD4NWDU&search=Brandon%20vera

I saw the big guy tap out the second time I watched it. OWNED!

Holy F*cking Sh!t!!! Brandon Vera on that second video is such a Badass.

Thanks for sharing these great videos.

that vera guy don't look a whole lot filipino but the tattoos in his back gives it away.

He's only half, but at least he speaks tagalog

i figure, he's ginormous.

ahh


ginormous - Somewhere between gigantic and enormous.

awesome vids guys!! whens that vera's fight?? ive never heard of him.

chinese martial arts has jackie chan, bruce lee, jet li, etc..muay thai has tony jaa

i think its time for the philippines to have its own escrima or kali or arnis or sikaran martial arts star lol..what do u guys think?