Top 10 myths on China

MYTH Number 1:

The lack of IP rights curbs innovation, so the Chinese economy will remain based on producing cheap knock-offs of superior Western goods.

REALITY: China now focuses on copying products because its technologically lagging, and as such it is much easier and cost effective to reproduce already existing products than to come up with your own. Much the same can (and was!) said of Japan in the 1960′s, or Germany in the 1880′s – but look at them now! The lack of IP rights makes this assimilation far easier – why waste money paying rent to foreign software companies when you can use their products for free so easily? You’d have to be their stooge to do this! Throughout history, many successful developers, such as Germany and Britain, flouted IP rights and funded industrial espionage to modernize their economies. They only started praising the virtues of IP rights when they got rich to protect their own new interests. With China already taking the leading positions in sectors such as High Speed Rail and supercomputers, the time when it joins the developed world in “kicking away the ladder” can’t be far off.

MYTH Number 2:

Corruption and inequality is growing rapidly, which will lead to rising social tensions, economic stagnation, revolts, and collapse.

REALITY: Corruption is largely irrelevant to economic growth, unless it is cripplingly high (which it definitely isn’t in China). For instance, only 9% of Chinese reported paying a bribe in 2010, which is actually the same as Japan.True, inequality has risen sharply, with the Gini index reaching 47. This figure is similar to the US and lower than most Latin American countries, albeit far higher than in Europe. However, a peak in inequality is typical of countries in the middle of their industrial development, and is expected to fall in the coming years. Indeed, this seems to be already happening, with the poorer inland provinces beginning to grow faster than the wealthier coastal regions in recent years.


MYTH Number 3:

The brouhaha over China today ignores its bad loans and real estate bubble, which will explode and sink its economy any day now.

REALITY: Pundits have been ranting about China’s bad loans problem for a decade, but in reality the issue is less acute now than it was then. In the meantime it is the Western financial that collapsed (and had to be bailed out at huge taxpayer expense). Chinese leaders noticed this problem early and nipped it in the bud with a series of restructurings in the 2000′s. The real estate bubble isn’t really a bubble because, no matter how many empty apartments there are, half of China’s population is still in the countryside and will continue moving into the cities for decades to come.


MYTH Number 4:

Back in the 1980′s, there was the same hysteria about Japan becoming No. 1, and look what happened to them! This Sino triumphalism is nothing but a passing fad.

REALITY: China’s population is TEN TIMES bigger than Japan’s. Realistically, Japan could have never become the world’s biggest economy because doing so would have required its GDP per capita to rise to double that of the US. In stark contrast, China’s GDP per capita needs only be a QUARTER that of America for it to become the world’s largest economy. Some economists think that’s already happened (see below).


MYTH Number 5:

The Communist Party suppresses all freedom of thought, which will inevitable lead to stagnation, regional rifts, and pro-freedom uprisings.

REALITY: First, the idea that the CCP truly suppresses free thought nowadays is a bit quaint. There are plenty of think-tanks – more than in the US – that are discussing exciting new concepts such as deliberative democracy, Comprehensive National Power, and new ways of measuring economic growth. Second, the leadership is forward-thinking and responsive. To illustrate this, in a recent speech Hu Jintao called for a “circular economy” and “sustainable development.” (Can you imagine Obama voicing similar sentiments? The Republicans would devour him alive.) This is backed by concrete policy measures. For instance, in response to its reliance on coal China invested in renewable energy manufacturing capacity and now produces half the world’s wind turbines and solar panels.
Third, not only does democracy or the lack of it have no discernible effect on the speed of development – in fact, China itself is a refutation of that theory – but its not even that oppressive compared to countries commonly called “democratic.” So it jailed Liu Xiaobo for 11 years (who claims China would be better off under colonialism). But in the meantime, the Marxist activist Binayak Sen got life imprisonment in India, and the US is waging a campaign to shut down Wikileaks and imprison Julian Assange. No talk of a Nobel Peace Prize for those two. Fourth, it is extremely arrogant to claim that China will necessarily want to follow in the footsteps of the West. It may well take its own sovereign road to democracy, such as a democratization of the current NEPist model. Even if it does democratize aka Taiwan, then why should it collapse? Its factories and people will remain in place; so will economic growth, albeit with a blip or two during the transition. And according to our “democratists” wouldn’t such a development make China stronger anyway?
As for George Friedman’s forecasts that a widening gulf between the coast and inland regions will cause the coastal elites to identify with foreign interests such as Japan and the US and break the power of the government… well, this is the same guy who goes on about The Coming War with Japan. No more comment required.


MYTH Number 6:

Outside showpieces like Shanghai and a few other coastal cities the entire country struggles on in Third World poverty, illiteracy and immiseration.

REALITY: This is belied by fairly basic statistics. A country with 67% cell phone penetration, 36% Internet penetration, and more cars sold per year than in the US as of 2009 cannot be “Third World” be definition. Nor does a literacy rate of 97% or an infant mortality rate of 16/1000 jive with this description. As of 2010, the IMF gives China a real GDP per capita of $7,500 (which is lower-middle income by international standards). However, in reality this is probably an underestimate. For instance, Thailand with a GDP per capita of $9,000 had manufacturing wages of $250 per month in 2009, as opposed to China’s $400 per month. Its consumption stats also indicate a higher living standard (which is all the more impressive given its high savings rate). In any case, China is a decidedly middle-income country.


MYTH Number 7:

The People’s Liberation Army is full of rusty Soviet-era hardware and derelict warships that will be obliterated in a conflict with the US.

REALITY: Now resting on a solid economic foundation, the Chinese military is being rapidly modernized. In recent years it has unveiled its own drones, a fifth-generation fighter prototype, and a “carrier-killing” ballistic missile. It accounts for a third of global shipbuilding capacity, enabling a rapid naval buildup (even as US capabilities degrade due to fiscal problems and cost overruns). A recent RAND study indicates that China is already be able to establish air superiority over Taiwan in the event of a hot war over the straits. As Paul Kennedy noted in The Rise And Fall Of The Great Powers (of which Chinese strategists are big fans), military power follows naturally in the wake of economic power. The Chinese economy will eventually be so much larger than everyone else’s in the Pacific basin that its neighbors will have no option but to acquiesce to its hegemony, even if it doesn’t win them over by its rapidly growing soft power. The only military sphere in which China lags the US (and Russia) is in the size and sophistication of its strategic nuclear forces. But even there it may be stronger than it appears. It was recently revealed that it has built 5000km of tunnels in the hills of Hebei province. For all we know hundreds of ICBM’s could be hidden away there.


MYTH Number 8:

The Chinese economy is dependent on exports for its economic growth, meaning that even if the US collapses it will bring the Chicoms down with it.

REALITY: This is a complete myth. Whereas gross exports are at 40% of GDP, what matters are NET EXPORTS – which are at just 7% of GDP. (In fact this past quarter it even reported a trade deficit). Or if we look at it regionally, those Chinese regions which export a lot are all located on the southern and south-eastern coasts, and account for less than 25% of the population; the rest of the country is far more autarkic. Now true, a collapse in export demand will lead to a temporary rise in unemployment in those export-dependent regions. But the Chinese can do without the “heroic” American consumer. They’ll just consume more of their own production (as it increasingly the case anyway).

MYTH Number 9:

China will grow old before it grows rich.

REALITY: No, it won’t. According to UN projections, its share of the population aged 15-65 will have dropped from 72.4% now to 68.9% by 2030 (by which time it will be a developed country by its current trajectory). For comparison, Japan’s working age population today is just 64.0% – that’s less than China two decades later!
Furthermore, there are still massive productivity gains to be collected from urbanizing another 20%-30% of the population. As peasants continue moving into the cities, the urban workforce which is the source of most added value production will continue growing well past the time China the total labor force begins shrinking. The decline in the numbers of children will enable each one to get a better education.


MYTH Number 10:

Even if it grows at 10% a year, it will take China’s $5.9 trillion GDP decades to catch up to America’s $14.7 trillion GDP growing at 3% a year. That will come no sooner than 2025. And that’s assuming that Chinese GDP figures are accurate (they’re not, of course, given the Communist penchant for lying).

REALITY: This is a very common argument, even in respected venues, but one that shows fundamental economic illiteracy. The $5.9 trillion GDP is China’s NOMINAL GDP, which reflects a very weak yuan. If the yuan were to appreciate against the dollar, growth in nominal GDP will be much faster than real growth – and in fact IT IS, growing at nearly 25% for the past five years.
Its REAL GDP, which accounts for differences in international prices, is far bigger at $10.1 trillion and not far from America’s $14.7 trillion. But even this may be an underestimate. Back in 2008, the IMF and World Bank both reduced their estimates of China’s real GDP by around 40%; these revisions are considered questionable. Using those old figures, China would already be at America’s size. This is supported by comparisons of Chinese consumption (e.g. Internet access; manufacturing wages; etc) to other middle-income countries, which in my approximations give it a real GDP per capita of perhaps $12,000 and implying a total real GDP of $15-16 trillion.The case for Chinese manipulation of statistics is unproven. One of the primary arguments here used to be that economic growth didn’t track electricity consumption. But that’s not too convincing in light of China overtaking the US in electricity consumption in 2011.

China’s economic growth has tracked South Korea’s very closely but with a 20 year lag (or 15 years using the old, bigger GDP estimates). Its real GDP per capita in 2000 was equivalent to Korea’s in 1980; as of 2010, it was equivalent to Korea’s in 1990. (The story for nominal GDP growth is remarkably similar: China’s number for 2010 is equivalent to Korea’s in 1988). Now if China continues following Korea’s historical per capita trajectory, it should have a real GDP of $22-$30 trillion by 2020 and $40-$55 trillion by 2030 (former figure based off current GDP estimates; latter off the bigger estimates). This means the US should be overtaken by 2020 at the latest and left in the dust soon after. Assuming a steady rate of convergence to international prices, China’s nominal GDP too should become the world’s biggest by the 2020′s.
The groundwork is secure. Human capital is the foremost determinant of economic growth rates, and China’s today is far higher than South Korea’s two decades ago (recent international standardized tests show that performance even in China’s poorest provinces is close to the OECD average, while Shanghai won global gold prize).

Now consider that China’s foremost obstacle to global superpowerdom is highly unlikely to grow quickly, is overburdened by fiscal deficits, and may yet default on its obligations – and that by then, China’s currency will likely be free floating. In that case, the yuan will be the most likely contender for the title of world’s reserve currency. Upon assuming it, its nominal GDP – and weight in the global economy – will become every bit as dominant as its real economy of steel mills and factories.


ADDITIONAL MYTH:

China carried out a genocide of 1.2 million Tibetans.

REALITY:

Dalai Lama and the Tibet Government in Exile, as well as the western media have never presented any solid evidence or disclosed any reliable source to support their repeated accusation that the Chinese government killed 1.2 million Tibetans between 1949 – 1979. On the contrary, almost all academic scholars and many pro-Tibet advocaters have found that the accusation does not stand on any basis and is even laughable.

One of the main argument of the Exile group to support their genocide allegation is that there were around 6.3 million Tibetans in 1959, and the Tibetan population hardly increased after 30 years. In their 1996 whitepaper “Tibet: Proving Truth from Facts“, the Exile group claimed that based on a 1959 Chinese government newspaper report, there were 6,330,567 Tibetans in China. The number is broken down into 1,273,969, 3,381,064, and 1,675,534 in three different areas (TAR, Kham, Amdo) of the so-called Great Tibet. [1] However, a scrutiny of the data shows that these three numbers are the exact same numbers published in 1954 by the Chinese government over the above areas. And these numbers referred to the total population of the three areas (including Tibetan, Han, Muslin, etc), but not the Tibetan populations.

In fact, the total Tibetan population back 1950s was about 2.5 – 2.7 millions according to numerous academic studies, the Chinese national census, and even Tibet government itself. For example, on November 11th, 1950, in an appeal to the United Nations to stop China’s takeover of Tibet, the Tibet government stated “a weak and peace loving people, hardly exceeding 3 million”. It is impossible that by the end of 1959, the Tibetan population increased to 6.3 million.

A glance at the documents released by the Tibet Government in Exile, one can clearly see a trend that it favors vague data from the newspapers over serious scientific records from academic studies, population census, and historical records. Therefore, Professor Sautman, a reseacher specialized in studying Tibetan populations, concluded, “What I think these articles show is that there is no evidence of significant population losses over the whole period from the 1950s to the present. There are some losses during the Great Leap Forward but these were less in Tibetan areas than in other parts of China. Where these were serious were in Sichuan and Qinghai, but even there not as serious in the Han areas of China. There are no bases at all for the figures used regularly by the exile groups. They use the figure of 1.2 million Tibetans dying from the 1950s to the 1970s, but no source for this is given. As a lawyer I give no credence to statistics for which there is no data, no visible basis.” Professor Goldstein also rejected the allegation: “… the exile leadership … continued to attack Chinese policies and human rights violations in Tibet, often going beyond what the actual situation warranted; for example, with charges of Chinese genocide.”

Professor Sautman did an extensive and in-depth study on the literature of Tibetan population. In his 2001 paper, he used indisputable data to reject the allegation made by Dalai Lama and the Tibet Government in Exile. For example, “Figures (detailed breakdown of the 1.2 million number) at this level of specificity are meant to impress, but the emigre approach to numbers is quite elastic. In a 1990 book widely circulated by the Tibet Government in Exile, the number of famine victims is given as 343,000, not 413,000. In 1991, the Dalai Lama stated that 200,000 Tibetans had died from starvation, less than half of what had originally been claimed. These discrepancies are not surprising; some of the statistics are based on citation to documents that do not contain the figure at all, or have not been made public by the emigres… Other figures employed in the claim of ‘demographic annihilation’ derive from interviews with Tibetan refugees in India. Such informants are not likely to be reliable. Lois Lang-Sims, a leader of the pro-TGIE Tibet Society of the UK, wrote that statements of refugees examined in the years after the Dalai Lama arrived in India have ‘an extreme and inevitable unreliability‘”

Professor Sautman’s study is independently confirmed by Professor Goldstein, Co-Director of The Center for Research on Tibet, “One likely factor is that the accounts offered by Tibetan refugees (and apparently also a few individuals in the TAR) are exaggerations or fabrications told to foreigners to garner sympathy and support for the ‘Tibetan cause’… In other words, they were inclined to represent the current situation negatively…. many Lhasa Tibetans harbor deep-seated anger and hostility toward the Chinese, which colors their perception of the current situation and sometimes leads to distortions, exaggerations, and fabrications.“

Michael Parenti wrote this in his book “Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth”: “The official 1953 census–six years before the Chinese crackdown– recorded the entire population residing in Tibet at 1,274,000. Other census counts put the population within Tibet at about two million. If the Chinese killed 1.2 million in the early 1960s then almost all of Tibet would have been depopulated, transformed into a killing field dotted with death camps and mass graves–of which we have no evidence. The thinly distributed Chinese force in Tibet could not have rounded up, hunted down, and exterminated that many people even if it had spent all its time doing nothing else.”

Even Free Tibet Compaign director Patrick French said the allegation has no basis: “the Free Tibet Campaign in London (of which I am a former director) and other groups have long claimed that 1.2 million Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese since they invaded in 1950. However, after scouring the archives in Dharamsala while researching my book on Tibet, I found that there was no evidence to support that figure.”

So the Dalai Lama and his spokesmen are lying? Is it a virtue or a sin to lie in Buddhism?

He/she didn't really answer number 6, and as for the 'additional myth': Why is it that people get on Japan about their war atrocities but when it comes to things the CCP might have done, it's all propaganda and lies?

Really I think some Chinese don't like criticism against the CCP and get defensive because they take it personal. They take criticism of the CCP as criticism against China or Chinese people. They can't separate themselves from the government and realise that the government's actions don't reflect the mentality or personal opinions of regular Chinese citizens. This is why people, like some on this website, never really acknowledge/talk about bad things within the country or shameful things the CPP have done, because instead of seeing it as an individual case or a case that's strictly about the CCP, they see it as a case that reflects all of China.

Uhh who's praising the CCP? As screwed up as the PRC government can be sometimes, they still improved the lives for millions of people in China. Moreover their role as leaders in China are a stark contrast to a group of outside invaders who's sole purpose was bloody conquest and enslavement.

It's no different than African Americans complaining about White people enslaving them yet forget it was their own African people that created the slave trade to begin with.

I agree, it's properly because they pride in themselves in being Chinese so much, that they don't want to acknowledge the shame they caused to themselves. All this anti-hate to other countries is properly because of CCP. Most countries like Japan, but most countries hate China with the acception of Hong Kong and Macau.
Communism is seen by the west and by the world as an crime to humanity and their freedoms.

The reason why most people like Japan is because Japan knows how to promote an friendly and good image to the world. Their anime, Video games, Japanese martial arts can be seen everywhere in the world. While China has invented 1000 of useful inventions and contributed to humanity in the past, modern Chinese history contribution is almost nothing. The're's an reason why most people hate China, the image the send to the world is full of fear and suffering.

Stop talking out of your @ss,I'm not a Communist or every received PRC education yet I have no problems with,tell me which country doesn't hate another one... lmao most people like Japan have you every been to China or South Korea,they still ignore their past transgressions and seek to white wash,most people hate China lmao why do people eat Chinese food,watch or practice Kungfu and Fengshui is getting pretty popular,America also shows the world fear and suffering invading other countries is a reason...

A much bigger question is that why does the westerners never get over this argument. I am pretty sure I or someone else on AF have repeatedly rebutted this point with basically the same arguments, and there was no response and we assume it is settled. But what do you know, the westerners just doesn't learn and they raise the exact same point again.

Chinese don't get offended why you give legitimate criticisms of the government. Corruption is the biggest one. I can guarantee you, if you criticize the CCP officials as being corrupt/incompetent/wasteful, you would be met with full support.

They, however, do get angry when you criticize the wrong things or base your criticisms on myths and give stupid advices to China, ie trying to convince Chinese that losing Tibet/Xinjiang is actually good for them or Taiwan should be independent or China (by which they mean Han) is racist etc or China harvest organs from ethnics or FLG fanatics.

Chinese care about a different set of causes than the westerners, because they had a different history. For China, the big issues are corruption, territorial unity, etc. For the west, the biggest issue may be freedom of speech/censorship, racism, etc. So don't be surprised when Chinese don't become as sensitive as you, when your issues comes up. Don't be west-centric, and think that the lack of response is because Chinese are stupid/brainwashed/sheeps, etc.

I don't have an opinion on the issues being discussed here but I think this statement of yours isn't true. "Keeping face" is a big thing in Chinese culture, or I guess Asian cultures in general, much more so than in American or Western cultures. They can talk among themselves about CCP but not in front of foreigners or outsiders, they won't let anyone say a negative thing about China, they'll be upset if you do, they will try their best to defend China, like what you all are doing here. Sometimes I think this is an inherently Asian thing, but then not everyone in an ethnic group has the same mentality, ideology, and behave in the same. Nonetheless, I think this is the behavior of the majority in general, they can't take criticism.

I'm sure you will debunk my post, but you're just doing what almost everyone here does - keeping a face for your country.

Maybe keeping face is more common in East Asian cultures because of archaic punishments which also punished your relatives if you commit a crime,my own mainland Chinese relatives were criticizing me for being too Pro PRC,maybe people are pissed because the ones who are criticizing China are being hypocritical and trying to insist that Chinese themselves can't decide their identity.

Wait, so what if you are wrong. I can't debunk you because that would only be "keeping a face for my country"? Your implication is that the only reason why I debunk you is because for pride and not because you could possibly be wrong?



No, you should respond to my post in a more fine-grained manner. What you have said is EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS WHAT REGINAE SAID. My entire response to her was basically useless, you just skip right through it and restate the original argument.

What you said above is what is commonly said about Chinese. And I am asserting this is false, if you hit the right issues, like how Chinese officials are corrupt. The problem is so obvious and so commonly agreed upon, that about no one (I can't say for every Chinese) would rebut you. This is true, unless you use this issue to assert a bunch of ridiculous or insulting claims, like China is hopeless, or the Chinese political system is inferior to the western way, or Chinese are exploited by the government and the only reason they aren't rebelling is because they are sheepish and submissive, etc. And don't make your statement in an accusatory tone, even if they wanted to agree with you at first, they wouldn't now because you make it sound like an insult.

What you have seen us defending against is a bunch of bad advises and illegitimate criticisms, that only western lapdogs countries would listen to. China would collapse within a day if it listen to all the stuff that the west is spewing out everyday.

Your next post should build on what I have said, instead of starting over and restating your position. We will never get anywhere otherwise (just like every other internet debates).

I think we're talking about different things. I agree that more and more people are criticising the government when it comes to certain kinds of corruption, but if you read my first post again you'll see that I was actually talking about atrocities (because the 'additional myth' was about genocide of 1.2 million Tibetans). Though Chinese people might openly call the CCP corrupt, some still don't acknowledge or like to talk about awful things that happened within the country. There's always an excuse for Tiananmen, there's always denial when it comes to Mao, there's always apathy about Tibetans and Uighurs being treated unfairly. You should notice that Chinese people will admit the CCP is corrupt about money and some other things, but when it comes to human life/human rights, no one has any comments. Like I said they (must) think it reflects something about the society and Chinese people in general. I know this because whenever a person mentions poor human rights in China, someone will then come back with a personal attack, or an attack on the US and their history regarding freedom and wars. They try to divert all shame. A pretty typical M.O. of someone that's feeling personally offended.

In other words I asked why do people always bring up Japan's war history yet we never see threads about what the CCP have done - people go on and on about Japan doing terrible things years ago to the Chinese, which were barbaric and totally sadistic, but there's virtually no discussion about how the Chinese government treats their people. The person who wrote these "top ten myths about China" has no doubt in his or her mind what the Japanese did to China all those years ago, though they think the possibility that the Chinese government killed thousands of Tibetans is "laughable".

That was the point of my first post. Which you kind of didn't understand.

northstar why did you even post these myths lol, to stir up things? :p we all know the Tibet issue is being given a better version in China then outside it...
however I would have thought overseas Chinese having a more objective view about it


this brings us to MYTH Number 11:

Impact of today's (and yesterday's) propaganda on Chinese overseas non/hardly-existent


REALITY: This is just a myth, once a Chinese always a Chinese, All hail China!


luckily this doesn't reflect the opinion of all as shown in "No tears for Mao: Growing Up in the Cultural Revolution" by Niu-Niu, a book I recommend to everybody interested in the matter...

People who live away from their tribe are actually the most tribal. I think overseas Chinese are even more of Chinese nationalists than the Chinese who live in China, Taiwan, and Singapore.

If you are like me and live in a place where Asians are not common, you become passionate racialists.

Ironically the best way to end tribalism is for people to live among their own kind. If you are isolated from your kind, your tribalist feelings become more intense. My FOB parents from Taiwan feel bewildered by my views.

Why do non-Chinese have so much to say about China? I mean sure you can criticize China all you want, but it will only fall on deaf ears since your opinion holds little weight to us. :/

@fivers: Have you actually been to Tibet?

this kind of argument always amazes me as nobody on here will say only Americans can discuss USA related topics lol, but when it comes to China then all of a sudden you have to be Chinese to get some credibility, duh

why are you even asking if I've been to Tibet (you know very well there's 90% chance I haven't been there lol), btw have you?!

Yes, yes I have. I ask because if you don't have any experience with said country except through news article or another non-first hand medium, you lack credibility. Who would know China more? The Chinese themselves or some foreigner who've never set foot on China?

lol, I knew you'd be telling something like this I'm wondering what is more important here, being a foreigner or never have set foot on China? likewise I've never been to Servia.. does that mean when I'm watching CNN they got zero credibility because I am not a Servian in Servia?!

So you've stepped on Tibetan soil. This somehow magically makes you more knowledgeable and aware of Chinese/Tibetan issues than other people. Well I've been to China too. I've stepped on Chinese soil and breathed in the (smoggy) Beijing air. I guess this means I have credibility.

As for your who would know China more question, well, being on the outside looking in is more of a broad and accurate view than being on the inside looking out. Meaning, Chinese people only know so much about Chinese affairs. They only hear the news the government wants them to hear. They only see the images the government wants them to see. No country in the world tells their citizens the truth of everything. And for Chinese people living outside of China, of course there will still be some rooted loyalty to the country, which automatically clouds judgment. So knowing these things I don't think being Chinese or living in China gives you more credibility. I think it actually makes you a little bias.

That is not true, there are a lot complain against the government officials in China.

Just look at the tone of Western media report on China.

What we did in internet, is correcting the wrong opinion about China.

For example, we don't denying TAM protest, but we want to correct that there's no massacre in TAM.

Actually you are very lucky, there someone want to tell you the truth.




The crime rate in communist countries are almost zero.

People in communist countries have far higher moral than people in capitalist countries.




During the '80, Japan didn't have a good image.

Japanese were hated and beaten on street.

Only after their economy meltdown in early '90, they were "forgiven".

No, stop trying to snake out of your original statement. You stated very clearly that Chinese can't take criticism, with no qualifiers. If you meant, "Chinese really can't take criticism of a certain type", you would have clearly said so.



This is essentially me repeating myself, but I am going to say it again. Your original statement is wrong. Chinese can indeed take criticisms, if the criticisms are actually legitimate. Nobody in the world is going to take wrong criticisms.

Unless you read clearly the response to your criticisms, we will always be stuck in loop saying the same thing. I am going to respond to your statements individually. DO NOT RESPOND BY A HUGE BLOCK QUOTING MY ENTIRE RESPONSE AND THEN RESTATE YOUR ORIGINAL POSITION.

Yeah, the criticisms that the westerners usually gives are simply wrong on these issues. And the westerners simply don't listen to how they are wrong. They simply think that if we don't take their criticisms, then we are saving face, etc. They can't even imagine it is because their criticisms suck.

You want me to start restating why these criticisms are illegitimate? It will get very long.


No, if you read any Chinese forums other than AF, when someone dies (like a petitioner dies, or the high-speed rails accident, or someone got run over by snobby rich kids), tons of people are angry. On AF, these simply aren't brought up or if they are brought up, the news aren't even controversial. What are we suppose to say, "justice should be served"? When there is not even controversy, no one would say anything. Look at the positive news on China on AF, there is also barely anyone commenting.

Who are these Chinese people that you are talking about? Chinese on AF or Chinese on Chinese forums?


Again, it depends on the criticism. If the criticizer's own country do the exact same thing 10x worse and the criticism puts China on a much higher standard (and how China is bad for being below their standard), then the most obvious rebuttal is to point out the hypocrisy. This is not necessarily being personally offended. This is just taking the low hanging fruits of an debate.

But sometimes I agree with you. Some of the people on English Chinese forums/blog do take some things too personally, and their over-personal rhetorics usually have an opposite effect of convincing the other side.


Because CCP has done is much much much less bad things for China and much much much more good things for China than the Japanese. It is an absolutely hilarious joke that westerners can possibly think that they are comparable. Only under extreme exaggeration of the mistakes of the CCP (and I am not disagree with you, there are mistakes) that anyone can possibly think that they can be comparable.

No, CCP do not send people into a village of Tibetans and kill all of them and rape their woman. No, CCP never slaughter the entire population of a Tibetan city. No, CCP do not disseminate biological weapons in Tibetans villages. No, CCP do not do live surgerical experiments on Tibetans.

And what do you mean by kill? I agree with you that it is very possible that the death of "thousands" of Tibetans can be blamed on CCP. In the past, for example, lots of people could have died under bad prison/camp conditions, and incidentally some of these are Tibetans. For example, bad policies in the GLF famine caused people starve to death, incidentally some of these people are Tibetans. For example, the justice system of China can frequently make mistakes, sometimes people die, and incidentally some of these people are Tibetans.

But I will argue with you on this point. There exist no Tibetans that were extra-judicially/arbitrarily killed explicitly on the central government orders. And also, Tibetans suffer no greater danger to their lives from CCP than any other Chinese people. To single them out as a group is to incite ethnic conflict, which is what Chinese usually hate.

Ok, I just spend a fu-king long @$$ time to carefully respond to your previous remark, but didn't see this kind of thing getting written right when I was responding. I really shouldn't have been so careful.

This typical western "wisdom" is false beyond belief. And incredibly arrogant as well, because they use this "wisdom" to dismiss any Chinese opinion that do not agree with them.


For ANYONE with ANY degree of familiarity with the Chinese internet, this is just outdated/old/time-and-again-proven-false picture of the Chinese public.

No, Chinese people are much more informed than the westerners think. Who (what demographics) exactly do you think "hears or sees only what the government wants them to hear or sees"?

And also as a bonus, they are much less ideologically primed than the westerners. Westerners sees more news and are more political. But they see everything only through their political dogma.

Okay, since you still don't get it, I'll give you a simple analogy. Who would you ask for dating advice? Someone who has dated many times or someone who has never dated.


I've stayed in Tibet and have lived in other provinces of China. I witnessed the lives of these people first-hand. No, I didn't magically became more aware because I've been to Tibet, but because I talked with the common folks about these issues and see how life is. In other words, I had experience there. You haven't actually lived in China, have you? How can you understand the Chinese without seeing the issues first hand (lol your tourist trip to China doesn't really count, as you're seeing only what you want to see).

You say that looking at China from the outside gives you a more broad and accurate view, yet it's also subject to bias as well. For instance, "They only hear the news the government wants them to hear.", already reveals your ignorance on the subject. Many Chinese laugh at the governments' propaganda attempts. If the Chinese want to know the truth about an affair, they can easily get the information. This is easily known by living in China. Also, by only looking from outside, you are only seeing what the second (or even third) hand source is wanting you to see. Through a first hand experience, you can decide what to think of it for yourself.

When I say who has more credibility, I'm talking about who has more credibility in the eyes of the Chinese people. It is the Chinese people's country, and ultimately all criticism/comments aimed at China are for the Chinese to decide whether to apply it or to ignore it. The Chinese are the final ones who makes the decisions about their country (whether that is to overthrow their gov't, stop certain practices, etc). Of course, we'll have people saying "but the Chinese people are brainwashed by their government", in which case, you've never been to China. Chinese people can *gasp* think for themselves.

Keep on moving China, leave your enemies behind.

This is the same kind of Eurocentric thinking that lead to slavery. "Oh, we whiteys know more more about Africa than Africans, let's make them slaves!".

Since I'm not European and an "outsider" with no rooted loyalty that means I have clear judgement about Europeans. Cool! That makes me an expert on Europeans since I'm not one.

Regina Rae, you are a genius! You are sooo liberal and hip! Bashing China makes you an expert on human rights. FREE TIBET! FREE THE WHALES!

Please keep coming back to C-chat and spreading your ignorant views.

LOL you are comparing apple and pears here :p




did you even consider the fact those Tibetans may have felt less free in their interactions with you as a "Chinese" person and therefore giving you a pc point of view than if they would have encountered you outside Tibet or China?





no the point here is that you don't have to be European to 'know' about them, we were not even talking about expert-level, lol

Go back and read what ReginaRae said before you assume. She was making the same argument about how she knows more about China/Chinese because she's not Asian and therefore has no bias. LOL. Wouldn't that make her more biased growing up in a country that hates China?

she doesn't hate China though, plus she meant that someone being outside China would probably have less bias - not that you got to be non-Chinese for this...

The arguments by some people in this thread presumes the truth and accuracy of the propaganda and brainwashing in the form of anti-China materials.

It's funny that being so brainwashed they ask, why are you brainwashed and not wanting to admit the truth ??

Duh ???

I believe they are the same people who got easily brainwashed by Western governments and their propaganda machine that Iraq had to be invaded because it has WMD, or because it is connected to 9-11.

So gullible.

Yet these people say, why are you so proud of being Chinese that you don't wanna admit the truth ??

Duh ???

Because your supposed truth is a lie ?!

You've been fed lies after lies after lies.

If you think Chinese propaganda is ridiculous, you haven't seen Western propaganda yet. I honestly give them my professional appraisal that their sophistication and ability to con as being 10x more potent and more capable.

Just think, daily you swallow misinformation after misinformation.

Tibetans are not being oppressed, bullied, or massacred, as alleged.

As a matter of fact, it was a thriving tourist destination almost rivaling Bali or Hawaii or Australia, it is famous and it was on its way up.

Sure.....I think we can see clearly that it's not all rainbows and bunnies....because a savage and barbaric racial riots occurred in 2008 where a certain ethnic group went on a rampage and conducted racial pogrom against another group.

I don't know why some of you who are supposedly humanitarian want to further provoke and spread the fire by fanning misinformation and lies and seem to condone such a blatant human rights violation. I mean sure, nobody explicitly "condone" it, but I haven't seen any words uttered to condemn it either.

I guess their lives don't matter much because they belong to a certain racial group, and not that other racial group which is cuter and more kitsch and has more Hollywood new-age religion followers.

What to do.

For me this whole episode from beginning to the end is a lesson and is an eye opener.

Everyday it is a lesson to be learnt.

Lol, not really. It's basically, who would you ask about life in China, the person who has lived in China and knows the facts and lies about his/her country, or the person who knows about China through the news he/she watches?




Lol, if you seriously think that, then you really do have a distorted view on China. You are probably thinking that if Tibetans say something else that isn't PC, that they will probably be prosecuted or something right? Yeah, public demonstration are barred, but if someone wishes to express their political sentiments, then it's not like it's illegal or anything. Also no, I didn't just randomly ask strangers how they felt, I talked with people who I befriended or was acquainted with. I can tell they weren't trying to be PC, as everything they say wasn't rosy, but nothing what you guys may be trying to paint it as.

newties21 why are you telling we're white sheep while you just showed to be a yellow sheep lol, it's not about anti-China but anti-injustice.. do you really think we can't see the difference, duh.. likewise I don't believe the Rwanda genocide to be a Western propaganda tool.. people were killed as shown in the "news" images.. I don't think those images were false in order to distort the truth, just like the ones of Tibet - be it on a lesser squale

about Irak (I'll answer as you mentioned it..) I think the reason is monetary - as the whole war machine generates lots of income for the US, and not out of ideology or fear of terrorism, 9-11, Sadam etc. those were just the drops that made it possible to send the message to the so-called 'propaganda believers' that the bucket was full...

I dunno if you're a very religious person newties but I'm not and maybe that's why I'm always trying to be critical of "the truth" (to the point of getting too skeptical sometimes..)


Skyburial lol, what am I trying to paint it as? I mentioned what I saw on the news, those were not constructed distortions of the truth.. at least not in my eyes.. no matter what those people in Tibet may have told you.. don't they say "a picture says more then a thousand words..."?

Okay, lets get this straight before we can continue. You're saying that Tibetans are being treated unfairly, right? That the article the OP posted that mentioned "China carried out a genocide of 1.2 million Tibetans" is a myth, is not true, right?

As to your last question, are you seriously saying that the news you watch on your TV gives a better insight to the lives of Tibetans than actually going there and seeing things for yourself?

Why should China even care about Tibetans, they want to establish an ethnic empire on 25% of China's territory and expel all non-Tibetans, of course that won't work.
They couldn't do that even before 1949, when they invaded Sichuan and Qinghai in 1930s and got completely trashed by local armies in Qinghai and Sichuan.

aren't you the high-horse person who like to lump chinese culture with coldness, uncivilized, and backwardness. you sure do love to make generalization and have the gut to argue over credibility.

No people are "innocent". At the same time, A lot of typical American news program does tend to look at China in a very bad light.

This is the last I'm saying about this.


It wasn't a tourist trip. I stayed in Zhejiang for a whole summer and during that time went to Shanghai and Beijing. Even though my stay was for the summer (roughly 3 months) I still was able to get a feel for how things are. Like you did in Tibet I talked with average people about the country, their opinions on the society and the government. So I do have experience, and personally I think I have great knowledge about the Chinese psyche from being there, interacting with common Chinese people, and having a background in psychology/sociology.


A Chinese person can not 'easily' get information. The internet, newspaper and television are all filtered. You said I'm ignorant about this, but let me ask: you honestly don't think there are things Chinese citizens don't know about or things the CCP keeps hidden? I mean let's be honest here - the Chinese government is notorious for leaving out details and trying to twist stories as much as they can. They can never tell the whole truth, and knowing that the CCP is made up of dictator commies, that's not that far fetched.


The comment I bolded made me laugh in particular. Again I'm going to say that being Chinese or living in China doesn't give you more knowledge about something, nor could a Chinese citizen ever possibly know the true lies and facts about China.

Like I said I stayed in China for a summer and when I had the chance to meet someone I always asked them about their thoughts. From my experience in China I can say my honest opinion is that apart from Chinese on the internet that openly criticize the CCP, a lot of Chinese people have nothing bad to say about the government, don't want to talk about the government, or have no idea in what ways the government is corrupt (besides money). I do believe the average Chinese person that isn't a national or isn't into politics is pretty much in the dark about things. The behavior of the people I talked to and the way they acted when I asked them questions/told them things varied from aggressiveness to bewilderment. Because of this I left China with the notion that those people were naive about the country.

China's population is huge, but if groups of people in 3 different places of the country with different lifestyles and upbringings all have the same views, then these thoughts can be applied to the rest of the population, realistically speaking - especially if the country is a collective society like most Asian cultures. Don't misunderstand me. It has nothing to do with Chinese people being 'innately stupid' or 'easily fooled and not being able to think for themselves'. It has to do with them growing up in a country where the government suppresses, oppresses and lies. Knowing everything I just said, when it comes to your question: who would you ask about life in China? Well, probably both people. The person that's lived in China their whole life and the person that knows about China through the news or personal experience. But I think I'm likely to get a more realistic response from the latter.


Someone posted a video here a few months ago of some Asian-American reporter that went to Tibet and spoke to a Tibetan guy about how Tibetans are treated and their opinions on the country. I'm pretty sure in the video they said the Tibetan man was arrested soon after by plainclothes officers and he hasn't been seen since. It could have been a Uighur man, in fact now that I think about it I'm almost certain it was, but the point is if they'll arrest a Uighur man then they will arrest a Tibetan for expressing their political views.

This is the same kind of Eurocentric thinking that lead to slavery. "Oh, we whiteys know more more about Africa than Africans, let's make them slaves!".

Since I'm not European and an "outsider" with no rooted loyalty that means I have clear judgement about Europeans. Cool! That makes me an expert on Europeans since I'm not one.

Regina Rae, you are a genius! You are sooo liberal and hip! Bashing China makes you an expert on human rights. FREE TIBET! FREE THE WHALES!

Please keep coming back to C-chat and spreading your ignorant views.

P.S: The fact that you use the word "commie dicators" gives you no credibility at all - should I call you J. Edgar? The fact that you said you are an "expert on China/Chinese people" because you spent a summer abroad is extremely arrogant and douchey. Time and again you've insulted Asians and Asian Americans and you've managed to piss off even the most moderate members. Good Job! You're truly a patriot of the United States of Goldman Sachs.

Meaning you're backing out of this. *sigh* I don't even know why I bother responding to your posts then.


A whole summer in one province grants you insight into the psyche of 1.3 billion people? Of course, you'll answer it's because China is a collectivist society. However, no matter how collectivist a society may be, unless they're the Borg, individual thoughts will usually differ among vast number of people. Also, your background on Psychology/Sociology does not give you a final say on how the Chinese think. Most of your information stems from a subjective observation and lacks any real form of empirical data. For instance, did you actually use statistic for a research on the Chinese psyche?

See, I have a deep knowledge of my fellow Americans too. My years of living in the US of A has taught me that Americans like you, hold an arrogant and ethnocentric view of the cultures around them.


Maybe it's because you don't know much about computers, so I won't fault you on that. However, there are ways you can easily bypass government censors in China. There is a reason why China has a lot of hackers. Remember the cover up for the train accident on July? The Chinese internet was in a uproar and you can easily find the truth. As for the "common folks" the old or the middle aged, they have families who can inform them. There are citizens who are ignorant, just like any other countries that have ignorant citizens.

I'm not going to try to whitewash the CCP or anything, but the same can be said of other governments. All governments "leave out details" from the common folks. China just a little more so than others.


Wow, since we're comparing the credibility between foreigner observers and Chinese people, then I'll add that most country's citizens don't care either. Politics isn't that big of a thing to ordinary folks. Take for example in America (again I'm using America because I've lived there), how many people know who all the presidential candidates are? How many of the average people actually care about the Tea Party movement? Or more recently, know about SOPA? Most Americans aren't even aware of what and who they're voting for. They usually end up only voting along party lines. Maybe you need a lesson in how most societies work: Most people in general don't care about politics. In essence, if most people don't even know much about the politics of their own country, than why would foreigners be more knowledgeable about an another country?


"the person that knows about China through the news or personal experience." I don't know if you realize it, but living in China is basically a personal experience. It falls under that category. In what way would the news trump personal experience? By personally being and living in China, you are experiencing things in China first handed. A news will always be a secondary medium for information on China.

And to make sure you're not shifting away from the original argument "credibility of foreigners vs Chinese people", you are arguing that a foreigner would know more about China than the Chinese themselves. However, their only source on China (since we're arguing that the foreigner probably never went to China or lived there long enough), would be the news. Their views are essentially colored because of this. I think we can both agree that news sources are not infallible, right? In that case, there will always be inaccuracies or even sensationalism inserted within these news.


Then from my experience, wouldn't this case be laughable? I've openly talked to Tibetans about their views, and they were definitely still there the next few days. Some of my friends who have mixed feelings towards the CCP on Tibet, weren't arrested. See, you can only make assumptions because you haven't been there yourself. It's not 1984 over at China.

As to whatever video you're mentioning, you don't think that it could be an isolated incident? I would comment more on it, but I haven't seen the video myself.

Yes I know what you mean, but what I am saying is that the picture of "injustice" that you have in your mind is inaccurate due to false propaganda and programming.

The truth is, if you are really a humanitarian and you care about people, and you care about justice, then you should not agree with racial extremists and religious fundamentalists.

This is simple.

It is a question of philosophy and conviction.

newties, (1) What is a "racial extremist?"
(2) What is the code of Justice we go by? I mean do you follow Taoist codes, or the codes of the Romans? Or that of Allah? They are all quite different and what is right for one may be wrong for another. So which god decides the right code? Do you follow the United Nations Convention of Human Rights or the Islamic Convention of Human Rights as they are quite different!
(3) So if you condemn religious fundamentalists, you condemn religion. So do you accept the laws of Atheism, or the laws of Satan?

I am serious, I want to know what we are talking about.

U.S. companies since the 80s or even late 70s have been making huge profits as U.S. wages stagnated while productivity rose. U.S. or international companies have used the excess profits to cover the enormous costs of moving businesses and manufacturing facilities to China in order to take advantage of lower wages in China and used this as a weapon against U.S. workers. Basically China has benefited from class warfare in the U.S. - the 1% there pitting low wage workers in China against the U.S. lower and now also middle class.

For China, this has meant lots of investment coming from overseas that they can use to grow their development, but it also means there are powerful interests wanting to keep a sector of the Chinese population in poverty - just as they want to push more and more of the U.S. population into poverty. Around *half* the U.S. population is now living in or living in fear of poverty.

Hope China can use this situation to its advantage and not get caught in a trap.

Solidarity worldwide is what's needed.

I guess that is just globalization at work.
If it is not China, then it would be Bangladesh, or Indonesia, or even Mexico.
In fact that is exactly what happened.
Whenever US government implements a measure to increase the taxation of a certain product from China.....what happens ? Does that mean that US workers would start manufacturing them again ? No....
The products from China would just be substituted with an increase of incoming products from other countries.
This has happened several times, if I am not wrong with tires, and steel, and some others I forgot.

In theory, because USA is a developed country, in theory the workers are supposed to transition to higher value added products in the value chain.

I guess the problems is, those high-tech jobs or well-paying service jobs, do not absorb enough workers....
So even though high-tech sectors has many workers, but they cannot absorb everybody.....and so those people who would otherwise manufacture TV sets or radio sets or toys, they become jobless and struggle.....because businessmen would not want to pay them high local wages when they can just relocate and pay cheaper foreign wages.

But this is globalization.
Everything is converging.
Everything is becoming a global village.
If someone over a certain place is asking for 100 dollars and another person is asking for 10 dollars, if they are converging and touching each other, then there is going be some effects and they influence each other. It is true that the richer person is getting worse off and not everybody can retrain or transition to another higher-value job. Some cannot adjust. There's going to be some winners and losers.
But I guess nobody can undo the tide of globalization.

The minimum wage in China went up 22% in the past year. Now western companies are complaining and starting to move their factories to Vietnam LOL. The Chinese government is doing something about increasing the living standard of average people. Chinese wages have only gone up in the past 30 yrs - I can't say the same for US wages.

You're not even Chinese.

Also, if you used your brain, which I'm assuming you have one, you'd know that I haven't bashed Asians. I'm criticising the Chinese government, but I kind of don't expect you to know the difference.


I don't have to live in China for 10 years or meet every single citizen to get a general feel for the country, especially a collective one. You're saying because I'm not Chinese or haven't lived in China that I don't know anything about the mentality, culture and society - but I want to tell you that China is an interesting case. Many distinct behaviors. All one has to do is know about the social norms, views, and the government, and if you're an intelligent person you can basically start to get an understanding of the psyche of Chinese people, without even stepping foot in the country. I've never in my life been to Iran, but I can begin to form a somewhat accurate opinion on Iran based on the way the country presents itself and news I hear about the country. It also helps if you have a background in psychology or stayed in said country for a period of time, like I did in China. So I'm going to say again, I personally feel I have great knowledge of Chinese society, and understanding of the Chinese thought process. This is a dumb thing to argue over though.


Hacking and bypassing...how many Chinese citizens know how to do that or care to do that? When an incident has gone national like the train accident, some might want to know more about it or think there's more to the story so they'll do some hacking, but it's not that easy to get information about much more sinister things. For example most people still have no idea about what really happened at Tiananmen Square in '89, and how tanks ran over the bodies of unarmed students, or that back when Mao was in power, government employees and people in the PLA actually took part in cannibalism and forced counter-revolutionaries to join as well, or that the CCP has literally spent millions of dollars on Shenzhen and Shanghai to appear modern and wealthy, while most Chinese people still work their fingers to the bone to support themselves and education/schools across the country are in terrible condition with terrible teachers. I seriously doubt these things are on the internet in China, despite how much you bypass censors. I'll say Chinese citizens can get information about somethings, but other things that are incredibly shocking and show just how unjust the CCP can be, are not easy for a Chinese citizen to find.


How can one hold a Chinese person's words to any standard when the CCP leaves out details? You're going on about "who knows China more?" but you've just admitted that the CCP does the things I've been talking about, even more so than other places. So, how can a Chinese person or someone that's living in China be held as a responsible and realistic source? We're not just talking about a government that twists the truth a little bit like all other countries do, but a country that censors as well. Now we're talking about lies, twisted truths and censorship. And you actually have the confidence to say someone that lives in China knows the facts and lies about the country? Ahahahaha.


I would think Americans would be a little bit more into politics than the Chinese seeing as America is a democracy, meaning we actually have a say in who leads our country. Americans by default kind of have to get involved in politics and the government, because unlike the Chinese, we're supposed to. Americans are supposed to have opinions on this and that, and I think the voices of American people are a big part of the government and are taken into consideration. Maybe most people probably don't care about politics or are pretty dumb on the subject, but in the end, Americans are more involved compared to the Chinese.


You think all news isn't infallible, or just news about China? I mean if you and other people in this thread were watching news about Africans or Europeans, I doubt you'd second guess it. But when it comes to your country, you think the news isn't accurate or it's downright propaganda.

There are certain guidelines news websites or tv stations like CNN and BBC News have to follow. If they're doing a report on something or discussing something they have to have evidence and had to have actually researched the topic. In order for them to even present something to the public, there has to be fact to it or else there could be consequences. So while what you watch and read might not be 100% accurate, it's still a credible source. You can't expect people to disregard something in the news about China just because there's a chance it might have 'some' inaccuracies. If I see something on the news about China or any place for that matter, I will definitely consider it and I will keep it in mind.

didnt have a rebuttal for a single 'myth' presented in the OP. did a very good job trying to steer the topic away though. you spent most of your time trying to convince people you have credibility with your trips and psyche background (oooooohhhhhhohohohoooo how prestigious). so why am i having such difficulty finding one conclusion you've made to be correct. the whole debate right now is about fluff. not substance. thanks to you. talking about how who has access to what info or who censors what. meanwhile wheres that conclusion that you have because you know chinese psyche and so many of its distinct behaviours. which myth did you debunk. no substance.

And funnily enough, you do not know much about the social norms, views, and the government at all. Reading articles about China can only give you so much information. You are essentially looking at China from a very narrow point of view. This argument might be dumb, but only because you are trying to lend yourself to being credible. This is YOUR opinion and I doubt many would share it. You see, your opinion on China or any country you haven't been to matters little. Who would listen to someone who's only "credibility" is having a background in Psychology? To say that you have a great knowledge of China's society and the minds of Chinese people only serves to insult many who have lived or dedicated their lives on studies of modern China.


Now I want to ask how would you actually know that those information are hard to get? Or are you just BSing? You say this, but you have no proof that they can't. You can't even navigate through the "Chinese internet sphere", yet you have the gall to present yourself as having any knowledge about the difficulty of this?

In fact, in this case, who would know more about Tienanmen SQ? The guy who was actually there to experience it, or the person who was watching a news coverage on it?


Amusing that you believe that Chinese rely only on government news. Censorship can be bypassed on the internet. Seriously, it's not hard. All the Chinese need are a few people to get the information and then to spread it. This has been done many times, something you would know if you've been in China long enough. You give the government so much credibility on affecting people's daily lives, I find it amusing. Your argument is based on foreigners having more credibility because you're assuming that the Chinese only know about information through the CCP's news source? Seriously, your "great knowledge" of Chinese people is largely subjective, there's no substance at all to your "knowledge" of the Chinese mind.


And that doesn't prove your point at all. How can they be more credible if they don't know much about their own government and politics as well? This only serves to prove my point that most people don't care about politics in general. It's even worse that despite being a democracy, most people still don't give a $hit about politics. It's laughable that you are expecting these people to be more knowledgeable about China when they don't even care or know much about their own government.


That's quite a few assumptions on your part. Unless you're going to claim I think that because I'm Chinese and collectivism playing a role.


Hahaha, it's funny that you mention those two news sources. You don't think that those news sources are bias? CNN's coverage of the Persian Gulf War or the coverage on Tibet with clippings from unrelated sources are laughable. BBC's coverage on the Israel-Palestine conflict would have made me think that the Israelite were angels and the Palestinians were the bad guys.

Anyways, it's not just "some inaccuracies", it's also about presenting different viewpoints that you would miss out on if you weren't there.

All in all, you lack cultural relativism. You can't understand said cultures without looking at the viewpoints of those who create, maintain, and experience it. The armchair scholar only knows so much compared to a person who is actually experiencing it.

OMG! This is the hilarious comment ever!

I don't need to read the rest of your comment to figure it out that you have a mental ill or a total idiot.

You just make shame for yourself.

If we went by your logic - since you claim that i'm not "chinese" that makes me more of an expert than Chinese people themselves riiiight? You're the one who said that Chinese opinions don't count because they're biased and that YOU know more about China because you're not Chinese, riiight?

Haha what an idiot. You completely contradicted yourself.

Btw, I am part Chinese. But since you're not Asian I guess that makes you an expert on all things Asian - so you probably know more about me than myself

I'm surprised you didn't get punched in the face when you visited China and tried to ask random strangers political questions.

Everyone here thinks you're a retard. Judging by your tired, cliched responses that lack facts or substance, I agree with them.

this remembers me a quote from Animal Farm: "all people are equal but some are more equal then others"

needless to say news sources from China are less credible also then CNN & BBC, you said it yourself so don't deny it by telling "Regina isn't Chinese" or "she just stayed one summer in one province of China and blablablabla", just admit that if she were Chinese you wouldn't be picking on her like that just because she's American and you have something against the USA as they depict China 'in a bad light' .. the only bias here is you :p

she meant that she knows more about it because she gets her information from non-Chinese news source

I love how you guys just lambast that one quote. It doesn't mean I agree with it, but all governments do it anyways.

Furthermore, that's a lot of assumptions from you. Who is saying that most Chinese look at government news? I am not comparing news between China and foreign news. If she was Chinese and gave the same opinion and arguments, I would still argue against her.

Also, I'm American too, I just don't like my fellow countrymen giving off the stereotypical arrogant American attitude towards other countries and cultures. And I have nothing against the US, don't know where you're getting that from. Disliking a few aspects of its foreign policy does not translate to something against.

And fivers, you feel strongly about this issue because you see my argument as an affront to your past arguments on Korea, right? :p