Neat idea.

Thú vị với biển tên phố Hà Nội có kèm... chú thích lịch sử


Đây quả là một cách ý nghĩa để giới thiệu về đất nước - con người Việt Nam với bạn bè quốc tế và giáo dục teen Việt về lịch sử.

Đề án gắn biển phụ đề chú thích cho các đường phố ở thủ đô Hà Nội được khởi động từ năm 2010 nhân dịp kỷ niệm 1000 năm Thăng Long Hà Nội. Ban đầu, dự án định sẽ gắn thêm một biển phụ đề chú thích vào biển tên phố, trong đó có ghi tóm tắt sự kiện lịch sử, tiểu sử danh nhân, địa danh bằng 2 thứ tiếng: Tiếng Việt và Tiếng Anh.

Sau dịp Tết Nguyên Đán 2012, khi đi xung quanh khu vực trung tâm (Hồ Gươm), bạn đã có thể thấy những tấm biển tên phố đề những thông tin cơ bản về các danh nhân, anh hùng lịch sử như: năm sinh, năm mất, chức danh, công trạng... khá đầy đủ. Các biển được thay thường nằm ở đầu hoặc giữa phố, nơi có đông người qua lại và dễ quan sát. Nhiều teen tỏ ra khá thích thú với sự thay đổi này. Việc đề chú thích cho các tấm biển tên phố cũng giống như biến mỗi tấm biển thành một bảng thông tin lịch sử nho nhỏ, để các bạn học sinh Việt thấy gần gũi với môn Lịch sử hơn.




Phố Lê Thái Tổ này.




Chỉ cần dạo qua một loạt các con phố lớn, teen mình bổ sung thêm được khối kiến thức đấy.













Với mục đích "Dân ta phải biết sử ta - Cho tường gốc tích nước nhà Việt Nam", những tấm biển có chú thích rõ ràng như vậy ít nhiều giúp cho người dân thủ đô nói riêng và người dân Việt Nam nói chung hiểu biết hơn về lịch sử nước nhà. Thật ý nghĩa phải không bạn?

Kenh14.vn

The signs are in Vietnamese. So I don't think they are to introduce Vietnamese history to foreigners. Most people don't carry electronic dictionary as they explore the streets, and few make effort to memorize street names to studies them later when they get home. However, I agree that they are to help promoting awareness of our own history to many young Vietnamese out there. I have been reading Vietnamese newspapers lately (the like of Tuoi Tre and Thanh Nien ) and occasionally see the reporters complain of how ignorant of our history young people are. History has consistently been the lowest scored subject in our annual college admission examination. Students tend to evade the subject as it is less relevant compared to the like of math in helping them with their professional lives later.

Often, the best students of Group C (Literature, history, natural + social geography) score only 26 or 27 points out of the possible 30 points. Hence, even though they are the best of the best, as far as the three group C subjects are concerned, none of them qualify for the national award offered to exceptional students who achieve 28 or higher score. In contrast, the awards see a mass number of recipients from Group A (math, physics, chemistry; which I call the engineering group), and a fair number of recipients from Group B (math, chemistry, biology; healthcare group) and group D (math, literature, foreign language/English; business group).

Just to see how ignorant of our own history, we are. Can you guys, without using reference sources, name the 12 forces that Dinh Tien Hoang pacified during the Loan 12 Su Quan?

I can only immediately name 2: Ngo Xuong Ngap and Ngo Xuong Xi, and that is because I remember they are children of Ngo Quyen, the first feudal king of Vietnam.

About the 12 sứ quân, I think it's unnecessary to memorize all 12. However you need to know why it happened, which events led to it, the politics of the time period etc...

Talking about historically ignorant.

I once met this guy with the last name of Huynh. When I told him that his last name stemmed out of mine, Hoang, he fervently refused to accept it. He event said that Hoang is just a Chinese last name, and Huynh is the Vietnamese version of it; just like Tran is to Chen. I was like wow how ignorant.

And then history came out, he even dare said that Hoang is not a Vietnamese last name because it has never been mentioned in Vietnamese history. Seriously??? What happened to Hoang Dieu, Hoang Hoa Tham, ...? You failing to remember them doesn't mean they never exist. And they weren't insignificant figure either, especially Hoang Hoa Tham, whose rebellion against the French was dedicate certain readings in our History textbook.


Another incident involved both social and historical ignorance, but you may find it quite amusing. Do you guys know the singer Trinh Thang Binh? One of my friends insist that it wasn't his real name or at least real last name because she was told that there is no Trinh left in our country, the Nguyen emperors killed them all.

I'm in a process of writing some novel about the Trinh Nguyen period...I'm not sure whether this would be a waste of time

Give it a try. Who know if it may becomes the inspiration for another Thien Menh Anh Hung.

Btw, what genre are you having in mind? Warfare, nation building, or romance?

I am more interested in the social-historical context of the Inner Vietnam (Dang Trong). During my school years in Vietnam, the history textbook only focused in in the context of the Outer Vietnam (Dang Ngoai) and in criticizing the Trinh Lords for their association with corruption. I still remember at least three Trinh Lords mentioned by the book: Trinh Kiem, Trinh Doanh, Trinh Sam.

Unfortunately, it didn't say anything about Inner Vietnam saved for Nguyen Hoang asked Trinh Kiem to send him to Thuan Hoa, the border region of the nation. Trinh Kiem agreed hoping that Nguyen Hoang would die there under the harsh conditions of the semi-civilized land and no longer stay a threat to his position. The textbook then forsake the Inner Vietnam during the whole ensuing period and only started to mention it again a century later when the Tay Son revolution started. Saved for Nguyen Hoang, I don't think I can recall any other Nguyen Lord's name (Nguyen Anh wasn't a lord yet when he fled from the Tay Son's onslaught, right? I think I've heard of Nguyen Phuc Nguyen somewhere, too. Coming from the Nguyen Phuc clan, his name does sound like he was a lord).


My biggest puzzling question for this period has always been : why on the earth would they call the newly obtained region of the country Inner Vietnam and the cradle of the Vietnamese civilization Outer Vietnam? Shouldn't it be the opposite? Don't you think the reason is similar to the popularization of Ao Tu Than; that is because the House of Nguyen eventually prevail and their way of addressing the two regions of Vietnam ended up being the common way? I have the feeling if the Trinhs were the final victors, the North would had been called Heartland, and the South Jungle/Borderland.

please, don't mentioned Thien Menh Anh Hung here, it is not that good, it just like a downgrade version of Mãn thành tận đới Hoàng Kim Giáp (滿城盡帶黃金甲) (gods, even Victor Vu claimed that it is "thuan Viet", oh yeah muoi, huynh is very thuan Viet, if he just said that is for entertainment purpose only i could ignore it, then he dare to mentioned the word "thuan Viet", what a shame!

well put that aside, this street signs ideal is brilliant... i love it, to have more street signs like those is a brilliant ideal for education purpose.



Brilliant ideal, novels about this era is kinda rare, there are a lot of strange and interesting things to haverst in this era. But if you can draw, i'd love to read a màn họa about this era.

Well, how do you expected people back then to address each other? Anh Hai/ Anh Ca instead of Dai Su Huynh or Dai Ca? Em gai instead of Muoi? If that was the case, may as well say Buon Dua Le instead of Han Huyen Tam Su. To me, unless a Vietnamese movie is outright making me feel shameful, I will always wholeheartedly support it.

thôi đi ông nội, sách sử quốc gia nào chép huynh muội? Có chăng sách sử Kim Dung, sử Tàu. Việt ta thời ấy xưng ta, ông, tôi, bà, bác, chú, Thánh Thượng, quan gia, bề trên, anh, em, ... xa lắm là chàng, thiếp, bổn (bản) ngã có huynh muội đâu ông. Cơ bản mà nói thì cũng không khác giờ là mấy, chỉ có trọng thêm các từ chỉ vai vế, chức vụ mà đa số chúng đều duy chỉ Việt có cả.

p.s: nói tới, tớ lại càng tức tsb mấy thằng phản đối phim đttTL.

@freeter: I actually had this novel in my mind for a long time, not in the form of a novel but a film...I have a very imaginative mind lol

It's gonna have war and politics but its focus is "tình cảm con người"...And of course romance too...



........

Something irrelevant but the more I think about it...the more I wish Nguyễn Kim didn't help the Lê at all...That dynasty had already been rotten since the time of Lê Uy Mục and Lê Tương Dực...it only makes sense that it collapsed eventually...Plus Mạc Đăng Dung was truly a "người tài" (he was the 5th or 7th generation great grandson of Mạc Đĩnh Chi), "có tài trị nước"...If Nguyễn Kim didn't make a fuss we wouldn't have all those Trịnh-Nguyễn craps later...Besides, there's a suspicion that Lê Trang Tông wasn't really a descendant of the Lê dynasty but Nguyễn Kim's son since Lê Chiêu Tông was only like 8-13 years older than Trang Tông and therefore couldn't be his father...Sự tranh giành giữa họ Trịnh và họ Nguyễn trong triều Lê đã có từ lâu và các vua Lê chỉ là con rối cho họ giựt dây...Nguyễn Kim cũng chỉ là lấy danh nghĩa phò nhà Lê để đoạt lợi riêng mình...

Mà thời đó nhân dân vùng Bắc Bộ rất mến họ Mạc. Trong 3 đời cuối của nhà Lê loạn lạc nổi lên khắp nơi, chiến tranh không ngừng, quyền thần tranh giành chém giết lẫn nhau, không lúc nào là nước được bình yên, có chăng cũng chỉ có một giai đoạn ngắn khi Trần Chân dẹp được loạn, nhân dân ca ngợi, nhưng vua ngu muội đi giết Trần Chân, rồi loạn lại nổi lên. Đến thời Mạc thì vùng Bắc Bộ người người no ấm, nông dân không còn nổi loạn nữa.

Nhưng ở vùng Bắc Trung Bộ, nhiều người lại muốn tái lập triều Lê. Nói chung vùng Thanh Hóa cũng là quê hương của nhà Lê, cho nên nhà Lê vẫn còn chiếm được cảm tình ở đó.

Đến khi quân Lê - Trịnh của Nam Triều lật đổ Bắc Triều của nhà Mạc và chiếm được vùng Bắc Bộ, một vị du khác phương Tây đã mô tả nó như là một foreign occupation, vì dân Bắc Bộ sau mấy mươi năm vẫn chuộng nhà Mạc hơn nhà Lê.

Keith Taylor bảo đây không chỉ đơn thuần là sự đối đầu giữa hai họ Mạc - Lê, là còn là giữa dân Đông Kinh (Bắc Bộ) và Thanh Nghệ (Bắc Trung Bộ). Vì nhà Mạc (cũng như nhà Trần và nhà Lý) có xuất xứ từ Đông Kinh (Bắc Bộ) nên được dân Đông Kinh ủng hộ, còn nhà Lê có xuất xứ từ Thanh Nghệ nên không được lòng dân Đông Kinh. Quan điểm của Keith Taylor có đúng hay sai thì cũng worth để consider.

Một điều có thể thấy là các tướng và quyền thần thời Lê phần lớn đều có gốc từ Thanh Hóa, ngay cả các bà phi và hoàng hậu cũng vậy. Những nhân vật tên tuổi có gốc từ Đông Kinh như Nguyễn Trãi (cháu ngoại Trần Nguyên Đán) thì lần lượt bị hãm hãi. Nguyễn Trãi thường bị các phe cánh triều Lê muốn ly khai, ông phải về hưu và cuối cùng gia đình ông cũng không có kết cục tốt đẹp. Cũng giống như Trần Nguyên Hãn, là người Đông Kinh theo phò Lê Lợi đánh giặc Minh, cuối cùng cũng bị giết hại. Phạm Văn Xảo, cũng là người gốc Đông Kinh, cũng là một công thần vào sinh ra tử với Lê Lợi, sau Lê Lợi lại nghe các phe cánh khác gièm pha và giết Phạm Văn Xảo...Công thần của Lê Lợi, người nào gốc Đông Kinh đều có kết cục bi thảm. Những người gốc Thanh Nghệ (như Trịnh Khả) thì tồn tại dài dài...

Sai lầm của triều Lê là giết đi công thần quá nhiều...Sau này trung thần thì ít, gian thần thì nhiều, quyền thần không coi vua ra gì...Từ thời Trịnh Duy Sản (cháu Trịnh Khả) đã có nạn xem vua như bù nhìn, như một công cụ để các phe phái triều đình thao túng quyền lực...nói chi đến thời Nguyễn Kim, Trịnh Kiểm...Nhà Lê tranh danh nghĩa tồn tại được 3 thế kỷ, nhưng thực chất chỉ tồn tại được một thời gian rất ngắn ngủi, vài thế kỷ, khi mà các vua Lê thực sự có quyền lực chứ không phải là những con rối trong tay các quyền thần. Đây có lẽ là cái quả của Lê Lợi, nếu như ngày xưa ông không giết đi nhiều trung thần thì đời sau con cháu ông cũng có thêm vài trung thần để nhờ tựa.



And btw freeter, do you know why it's called Đàng Ngoài vs Đàng Trong? Trong doesn't mean the heartland and Ngoài doesn't mean the frontier.

Today we say "vào Nam ra Bắc" (enter the South and go out to the North), but never the opposite "vào Bắc ra Nam"...We say "ra Hà Nội vào Sài Gòn", but not "vào Hà Nội, ra Sài Gòn". When we say "ra Sài Gòn", we're talking about going to Saigon from the rural provinces, not from the North.

From what I learn in Hanoi, you say "vào" when you go from a larger space to a smaller space and "ra" when you go from a smaller space to a larger space.

When Vietnamese migrated to the South, they passed through a very narrow corridor in Central and North Central Vietnam. The land was rocky and narrow, in contrast to the wide open land in the Red River Delta. This experience left an imprint on Vietnamese language itself: when Vietnamese talk about going to the South, they say "vào" because in their mind, the South is small and narrow whereas the North is big and open.

Hence, the Nguyễn realm became Đàng Trong and the Trịnh realm became Đàng Ngoài. Remember that at that time, the Nguyễn realm only had Central Vietnam which was a very narrow land in the mind of Vietnamese.

Huynh, muoi was included in our dictionary. Kim Dung didn't introduce the two words to us. He wrote his work in Chinese, and our translators used words that existed in our dictionary, including Huynh Muoi, to translate it into Vietnamese. True that Huynh Muoi are Han-Viet words. However, to say Han-Viet is 100% Chinese and has nothing to do with Vietnamese is completely wrong for a simple reason, Han-Viet has been spoken in our way for centuries; saved for some words most Han-Viet characters are not recognizable to a common Chinese person, whether in spoken or written form. (Nguyen Vu, in the movie, was educated by a monk. It is understandable that he should be able to command a more sizable knowledge of Han-Viet words, compared to a common person).

There are proverbs, sayings, and tu ghep that employ Huynh, indicating that the word was widely used back then. The like of Hien Huynh The Phu (good older brother is your father in Father's absence), Phu Huynh (father and brother = guardian), ... are still a part of Vietnamese language nowadays.

It's just that the common folks shied away from the word, in favor of Anh of course, making it gradually became obsolete. Have people not shied away from Huynh back then, you would never question its legitimacy and would use it just as often as the Koreans using Hyung.

I showed the movie to my two cousins. The older one, who does watch VTB movies often, said Huynh Muoi made the movie sounds like a cheap knockoff of a Chinese movie; while the young ones, who weren't fan of Asian media and only agreed to watch the movie because I convinced him so, said the words sounded novel to him, but they didn't kill the movie for him at all. Maybe the issue has less to do with historical accuracy and more to do with the audience's perception.



@Xigon: Thanks for the explanation of Dang Trong and Dang Ngoai. I am also quite aware that Mac Dang Dung was a very gifted leader. During his reign, Nguyen Kim couldn't really advance towards Dongkinh. Unfortunately, his descendants couldn't fit their feet into such a big pair of shoes. I found Mac Dan Dung and Ho Quy Ly to be very similar, both are brilliant individuals who are often underscored by Vietnamese historians. History is indeed written by the victory. Had the Mac and Ho dynasties lasted, we would have been talking about them the way we are talking about the Tran dynasty with its shining Dong A spirit (and serious the Ly dynasty wasn't that corrupted when Tran Thu Do schemed to overthrow it).

Well I don't think you can compare Hồ Quý Ly and Mạc Đăng Dung. Hồ Quý Ly caused a lot of disturbances in society when he took the throne from Trần Phế Đế while Mạc Đăng Dung rather brought peace to people amid chaos. Hồ Quý Ly massacred all his enemies (lots were nobles from the royal Tran family), Mạc Đăng Dung didn't kill his enemies but "trọng dụng" them in return for loyalty.


Aside from that, Hồ Quý Ly wasn't popular among commoners (his failure to mobilize the country against the Minh must have gotten something to do with this). Mạc Đăng Dung on the other hand was rather popular at least among people of the Northern delta. I'm not sure whether this had anything to do with the fact that Hồ Quý Ly was from Thanh Hóa or North Central (explained why he moved the capital to Thanh Hóa and called it Tây Đô) and Mạc Đăng Dung was from Tonkin, as Keith Taylor pointed out.

But if Hồ Quý Ly had more time, he could have made a great leader.


About Huynh and muội, let me say this, the actors in Chinese drama actually say wo (ngã) and ni (nễ) while our dubber changed it into huynh and muội. I don't think Kim Dung used huynh and muội in the original version of his novels. But if I were to write a novel, I would use "nàng" and "ta" to be more acurrate, or "anh" and "em" if I want it to sound sweeter but anh and em sounds a bit modern.

Interesting,so whats the chinese character for Huynh and muội?

Also,could you guys recommend some good vietnamese historical movies,with subs?I bought a book on vietnamese history,but its in english and it has so many big words in it I thought i bought a dictionary.It would be better if the movies about a real historical event.

Yeah but the issue i have is that Huynh and Muoi do not always indicate a romance relationship, in which case nang-ta, or chang-thiep would do just fine. It can just be the way an older man and a younger woman (the age gap is minimal, otherwise Tien Boi- Hau Boi would be more appropriate) address each other. Especially people learning from the same master; it's kinda wierd to hear "Moi su phu ngoi, moi chang ngoi/ master please be seated, senior please be seated".

Romance relationship huh?Judging by the pronounciation,Id say Huynh is "兄" and Muoi is "妹"，correct？

Yes

You know there's a problem here...

I'm writing the first scene of the novel and I'm struggling to pick some pronouns for two characters. What are children, one older and one younger, supposed to address each other anyway? I can't use "Anh" and "Em" because that sounds too adult and it sounds like they're already in a lovey dovey relationship.

What about ấy, đấy, đây, đó...sounds too modern, too teeny

What about just using names? No, that would kill the cute intimacy of the relationship

So I ended up using Huynh and Muội.

If any of you have a better suggestion, tell me.


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P/S: I'm switching to Anh & Em now, because I showed my bf the dialogue and he laughed at it, he made me laugh too. I don't why it suddenly sounded so hilarious (in a cute way). I think I was having Northern accent in my mind when I used "huynh" and "muội", so it wasn't funny to me, it was just cute...But my bf thought of it in Southern accent, so the huynh and muội just sounded like Viet-dubbed TVB and it just made everything funny, I started thinking of huynh & muội in Southern accent and I started laughing too.

I think one way to get rid of that TVB image of huynh & muội is to start saying them in Northern accent. Yea that's what we need to do, dubbing our historical films and drama in Northern accent, if we don't want them to sound funny like TVB series.


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But I'm telling you. My novel is going to be a good one. I got a good plot (not predictable) and a good theme. I just need to write them down in a beautiful way...

Not predictable aye? Don't tell me the Muoi was actually a De, and they were in a bromance relationship. Then the pair made a Journey to the West to Ayutthaya, the Mecca of their faith.

Have you considered nicknames,something reiterative?Addressing oneself in the third person?Dont know if that works in vietnamese.

LOL I guess it's kinda predictable if you know the history.

BTW does anyone know whether there are strong winds in Hanoi's summer? I don't want to make a stupid mistake...

But I guess it doesn't matter since it's a small detail and the weather 400 years ago might be different. Darn, I'm being detail-oriented now.

(Oh I'm picking summer because King Lê Kính Tông was forced to hang himself in May, supposedly that's Lunar Calendar, so it fell in summer)


Yea. But that doesn't fit into this situation. I think it'd kinda ruin the intimacy I'm portraying.

You should do a time travel theme,that makes everything unpredicable.
This forum is so dead.

the dictionary of course have them because they are Han-Viet words, and seems like you didn't get me at all, i mean in Kim Dung novels, these words are being used a lot, but in real life even Vietnamese historical books those word are rarely used, no one ever used them. No one use Phu huynh, they used "anh" instead.


ngoài đời không ai dùng mấy từ đó đâu ông, đúng là thời xưa có những từ cổ như áng(cha), nạ (mẹ) nhưng những từ như huynh, muội hầu như không ai dùng trong thực tế lịch sử, và hầu như không có ghi chép sử nào về việc sử dụng chúng.

Time travel is usually lame. Not into that stuff.

It doesn't matter much if it's predictable as long as it's good.


You know, Leopard, sometimes I want to use old words like "nạ" for mother, but I think the audience would be like "what?" Plus I'm not used to those vocabs and they take away my aspiration.

No one use Phu Huynh? Punch it into google search and you get plenty of returns, most of which are about the word in contemporary usage (I got 11 200 000 results). Don't teachers tell their students to bring "hoc ba" home to show their academic performance to their families and then get the Phu Huynh's signature before bringing it back to school as proof that their families are aware of where they are at school?

Again, Kim Dung did not use Huynh and Muoi in his novels, it was the Vietnamese translators who replaced Kim Dung's word for you and I as Huynh and Muoi.



@Xigon: how about historical imagination or historical alternative genre? Like taking the context of a historical event and then twist the outcome to show people a glimpse of what the nation would have been if history was changed. Example: Che Bong Nga didn't die in his final campaign and Champa conquered Tonkin region. Vietnamese diaspora, then, started in the 14th century and the movie showed how we struggled to survive.

That's what I'm doing. My characters are 50% fictional and 50% real.

When you're finished, send me a copy plz. I'm sure it can't be worse than Thien Menh Anh Hung

It may take years...Because I'm not doing full time writing and the plot is kinda long...


I'm having a dilema...Ngọc Khoa married the Cham King Po Rome in 1631 and twenty years later, the king was captured by Lord Nguyen in a battle and died in Phu Xuan...Ngoc Khoa isn't the main character but if I want everything to fit into the story time frame, I may have to make the Cham king die 10 years earlier...or I'll have to make all my characters older, but I don't want to because I don't have "hứng" to work with older characters.

Since it's a fiction, I guess I can shift the time frame a bit, but the difficult Vietnamese readers will nitpick

I'm sorry I haven't followed the thread.
Who's the main character?

Hm...I can't tell

Would you want to be my reviser when my draft is done?

I'm happy to be your reviser if it's less than 10000 words.

you means those who "sành sính tàu" and Han Viet account names, translated novel words?

Most of chinese entertainment product in Vietnamese labe "anh" "em" as Huynh - muội, and yes, in my place... no, they use người thân instead.

nếu mà cậu muốn thuyết phục người khác thì tôi nghĩ không nên đem google vào đây làm chi, nó là trình search cậu à, bất kì trang nào có đề "cập" huynh muội trong bất kì trường hợp gì thì nó đều liệt kê đủ, thậm chí từ bài hát, tên thành viêt sánh tàu, truyện dịch (có hơn 500.000 Đam Mĩ gay truyện vốn là hàng tàu và hơn 300.000 vũ hiệp, thần hiệp ecchi ê chéc cũng nguồn tàu đã được dịch ngoài ra phim kiếm hiệp, tuồng chèo tàu,... đại loại là bât cứ thứ gì liên quan đến tàu thì đa số chúng đều thay anh-em bằng huynh muội.

Tôi có tất cả trên dưới 1.000.000 vẫn còn quá ít so với số tiểu thuyết đã được dich, tiểu thuyết kim dung, nhạc tàu dịch, phim kiếm hiệp, tên thành viên diễn đàn sánh tàu đó.

Lịch sử đã chứng minh, không có bất kì một ghi chép nào về việc sử dụng huynh muội, nhưng anh, em, mày, tao, tôi,...

khanh và bệ hạ cũng không thấy mấy dùng, "chúng mày-bọn mi" and "các ngươi-người" "bề trên-thánh thượng-..." được sử dụng phổ biến.

bá tánh cũng không dùng mà dùng trăm họ.

Không dùng vạn tuế mà dụng "cẩn kính ngô vương (nhà ngô)-thánh thượng-bề trên muôn muôn tuổi".

Tại sao những từ Việt đã rõ là có dùng trong chiều dài lịch sử lại không dùng mà phải bê ba cái chữ hán "dịch ra" (phải gọi là dịch ra mới đúng vì bọn văn gia hiện đại cố tình dịch ra và làm phong phú kho tàng hán-việt, chúng dám bê cả những từ trước đây không có vào.) chưa rõ nguồn gốc vào rồi sau đó tự sướng "thuần Việt" mợ ngay chữ "thuần" là không thuần rồi còn bày đặt, nếu khiêm tốn mà nói là một tác phẩm giải trí đơn thuần thì không ai bắt bẻ nhặt sạn, đàng này chém gió kinh điển như lão Vích-to Vũ với 2 chữ "thuần Việt" trên báo từ cách đặt hoa cúc, trang phục, khung cảnh là éo thấy giống thời Lê rồi mà còn già mồm, tiên sư! Tiên Sư!

Mịa thế mà có mấy thằng lúc trước đả đảo cái ĐTTL như là nó là hạch không bằng trong khi nhìn nó lại thấy thuần Việt phần trang phục (trừ cảnh quay ở Tử Cấm Thành - Bắc Kinh do Nguyễn An xây dựng.) thế mà bảo nó là lai tàu, giờ thì chúng nó ủng hộ cái xảo mồm, bảo cái sai lệch văn hóa là "thuần".

I need name for the main male character

Suggestion please

I haven't found a satisfying one yet...

Most names today sound too modern...Mạnh, tuấn, cường, dũng, tiến, đăng yadaa yadaa Too modern and too common

Look at names in the old days - Phạm Ngũ Lão, Phùng Khắc Hoan, Phan Ngạn, Bùi Văn Khuê, Nguyễn Trãi, Nguyễn Du, Nhật Duật, Nguyên Đán, Nguyên Trừng...

Pure Chinese products would be written in Chinese character. Those written in Quoc Ngu has been translated and tampered by Vietnamese translators. It is these translators who used huynh muoi, not the original Chinese company.

Why am I even wasting time talking to the person who say Phu Huynh is no loner used in contemporary context? Next time, go ask your teachers at school if Phu Huynh is what they use to refer to the students' guardians.

You need to provide the last name you have in mind, certain last name goes better with certain first name, such as Vu Minh Vy sounds better than Nguyen Minh Vy.

Also, are you looking at a two-worded name or three-worded one? The middle name can make it or break it for the three-worded name: Quoc Huy sounds like Vietnamese name while Kien Huy sounds like a Chinese Vietnamese one.

Some of my suggestions:

Thành Thái, Quốc Thái, Trấn Nguyên, ...

I have always liked Yên as a name. One of my friends' name is Lê Trần Nam Yên.

Last name doesn't matter....

Thành Thái? Seriously? Title of a Nguyễn king?

Quốc Thái? I don't know it sounds modern and corny at the same time. Bad combination.

Trấn Nguyên. It's fine, not too modern, not too corny, but it doesn't ring a tone to me. I'm still looking for something better.

Yên sounds like a girl's name.


For some reasons, girls names are much easier to make for me. Maybe because I'm a girl myself.

Here I have an authentic 16th-century name for you Hoàng Khương (one of my ancestors). Khương rings a fine bell to me. I find 2-worded names tend to be less corny in general.

Yến is an explicitly girl name, but not Yên. Most people I know with Yên as their name are men, to make it a girl (which is possible) you'll need to throw in a quite feminine middle name, the like of Ngọc Yên.

I guess the feminine vibe that you get from the name is because Yên/Still Child conveys a very passive/docile connotation. Indeed it is not material to name your first son; but wouldn't this add more flavor to the story, the second child who bear no wishes or expectations from his parents grew up to outshine his senior?

Cậu ạ, tớ nói thật nhé, nếu cậu biết thì nói không biết thì thôi, như tôi đã nói lúc trước ở khu vực tôi không ai dùng từ ấy, khi dò kĩ thì tôi được biết một số vùng có dùng, tuy nhiên nó không có nghĩa là "huynh", "muội" được sử dụng trong quá khứ, phụ huynh không phải là đơn từ.

và đương nhiên như tôi đã nêu rõ (có lẽ là giống với mắng mỏ hơn) chính vì họ mà làm ta hiểu lầm nhiều thứ, trong suốt chiều dài lịch sử, giai điệu và thanh sắc của tiếng Việt có thể thay đổi, từ mới có thể có nhiều hơn, nhưng việc sử dụng huynh muội phổ biến thay cho anh-em là hoàn toàn không có cơ sở có thể đến mức rằng người Việt không dùng.

Trong suốt chiều dài lịch sử có rất nhiều người Hoa di cư sang, có lẽ chính họ dùng nên có các từ này có mặt trong từ điển là cần thiết và không có gì lạ, bởi ngay cả người Việt cũng dùng một số từ Hán Việt phổ biến (ngay đến bây giờ người Quảng-Tiều sống ở địa phương tôi vẫn suốt ngày nói tiếng Quảng pha Việt, ngay cả từ anh em đến cha mẹ họ nói tiếng Việt nhưng các từ trên vẫn dùng tiếng Quảng...)

Yes you are wasting your times, because you are talking and trying to protect something that you don't even know.

Huynh muội không ai dùng trong quá khứ ngoài anh em ruột (腌񣚼-㛪俺) ra thì người ta chỉ dùng chàng-nàng là phổ biến hoặc ta-nàng, tôi-tui - nàng (碎).

Ngay cả văn chương của các lão tiên sinh để lại cũng vậy, tôi đọc mà không thấu được mấy thằng cha dịch truyện Tàu...

các tên thì trước tiên phải nghĩ đến họ:

Bao gồm: Phạm, Lí, Lê, Trần, Phan, Nguyễn, Văn, Hồ, Hoàng (see Hoàng Văn Thái), Mạch (see Mạch Kiếm Thành), Trương, Võ, Vũ, Đặng....

Về tên có thể chọn các yếu thiên nhiên hay các yếu tố nhân văn, tóm lại chỉ cần nó có ý nghĩ dù đơn giản mộc mạc cũng sẽ hay, về chữ lót dù có chữ lót hay không cũng được nó chỉ là yếu tố phụ giúp cái tên có ý nghĩa hơn và hay hơn, chả hạn như:

Phan Đức Nhuận, Phan Đức Sanh, Phan Công Vinh, Phan Văn Vinh, Phan Sĩ Tải... (well these are my ancestor names)
Đặng Thị Lệ, Đặng Hải, Đặng Hải Lưu, Đặng Hà Ân,... (these are also my ancestor names...)
Phạm Thiên, Phạm Vô Khuyết, Phạm Ảnh Hoa, Phạm Nhẫn...
Lí Từ (hiền từ), Lí Anh, Lí Đào, Lí Mai Hương, Lí Điền, Lí...
Trần Mai Anh, Trần Thanh Thanh, Trần Thạch Đán, Trần Nguyên
Nguyễn Phước Ánh, Nguyễn Đức Thọ, Nguyễn
Hồ Nguyên Trừng, Hồ Liễu, Hồ Quí Nhã,...
...

Chị có thể nghĩ về bất kì cái tên nào mà mình thấy đẹp và đặt cho nhân vật của mình, không nhất thiết là có giống thời ấy hay không, dẫu sao thì nếu câu chuyện là hư cấu 1 phần thì có thêm phần tên thì cũng không ảnh hưởng nhiều đâu.

freeter, for some reason I don't have "cảm tình" with the name Khương. When I think of Khương, I think of one of those badass men who trick women into loving them.

Leopard, none of the names you listed is usable. Why do you list so many girls names?

I'm gonna continue without the name then...


Do you know what funny? I thought of the name Duy Kỳ. It rings a bell of a fine gentleman to me. But incidentally I found that King Lê Thần Tông's name is Lê Duy Kỳ
http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%AA_Th%E1%BA%A7n_T%C3%B4ng
since the king is also one of the characters I'm using, I can't take his name for my main character

The name that always rings the player bell to me is Khanh.

How about Thụy as in Thụy Du/Sleepwalker ?

Thiên Nguyên as in the focal point of a map (I got this from a translator guy, not sure if he's right. The first time I ran into the word was when I read Hikaru no Go; it left a good impression in me though I have to agree it sounds quite "ceremonious")?

Viễn, Khởi, Hiển, ...?

Same here.
I'm sure it's because of "Sở Khanh"

But it's different from Khương...Khương is like one of those charming guys with bad personality, whom women hate and love at the same time


Thụy Du is a no no

Thiên Nguyên - maybe

I don't like Khởi but Hiển and Viễn are fine.

Lê Duy Kỳ is also my great grandfather's name. Why don't you use my name? JK

My great grandfather on the mother's line has a pretty cool name: Trần Phục
A friend of mine has a good name too: Quý Huy Viễn

Huy Viễn seems nice.

Hm...I think I should make another topic for this.

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whats about Tư Thành? Its a nice and cool name which is also a name of Lê Thánh Tông.

Kiếm Tâm, Điền, Anh Minh, Nhu Khương , Xạ Nhật, Thần Thương, Tất Nhẫn, Vân Khương, Thiên Vũ, Hạo, Báo, Hậu, Tiền, Duy Tân, Kinh Thế, Tiểu Phong, Lam Vũ, Bạch, Luân, Khôn, Vũ Lâm, Quán Trung, Nhân Trung, Đạo Nhân, Điền Thanh, Thanh Ba, Trùng Quan, Đại Ải ...

Sát Kiến and Tà Sinh is fit for the antagonist.
Actually i have thought about Thạch Điền Tán Vũ, Vũ Đa Điền Quang, Ngã Đại Trùng, Ải Lam Điền, ... Those are very cool name and very thuần Việt.

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Vietnamese bridal dresses employ a very long background rich that Vietnamese tradition.

Ao Dai indicates "long dress".

First variants comprised of four in order to 5 systems regarding smooth, moving fabric, split around loose-fitting jeans in the very same substance; the amount of clleular layers typically signified this riches on the person donning the item : the harder panels or perhaps levels, the actual wealthier those.

Many of the extremely prosperous would also put on more than one ao dai while doing so.

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The actual "mandarin" fashion is a higher hard dog collar -- the capacity of the actual dog collar depending on the particular person wearing this.

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The majority of ao dai usually are personalized customized, fitted to your persons system. A few reduced high quality ao dai's are now produced in higher quantities, but, naturally, they're much less installed along with connected with typical styles.

For her wedding party, the particular star of the wedding has on a good outer gown (your ao choang) above the ao dai to manufacture a additional elegant glimpse.

Red is definitely the matrimony outfit coloration, though bright red could also be used. From time to time, silver man made fiber trims the particular ao dai and/or your ao choang.

Unique trimmings will often be coated or even padded around the dress along with the couple's bands, throughout Korean, or maybe stunning pictures are utilized since trimmings along the collar, cuff or perhaps back.

Your bride's brain is actually decorated having a corresponding headpiece; either your non la (the cone-shaped loath constructed from dry, weaved results in) or this khanh vanh which in turn lots of people state looks like some sort of traveling saucer!

Over the wedding ceremony, your wedding couple might adjust their particular outfits possibly few occasions - from the western-style bridal dress in addition to white-colored tuxedo, on the ao dai regarding both special couple, to be able to elegant nighttime gown and black tuxedo.

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Current Tendencies inside Asian Bridesmaid Clothing

Convention remains completely well known in numerous Oriental cultures; on the other hand, households eventually find that your blend of traditional garments and fashionable a wedding dress is usually just what they can similar to for weddings inside 2011 and also over and above.

As one example, several should put on far more westernized dress for that ceremony then become their standard dress with the wedding reception.

Irrespective of this Asian kitchenware region, the wedding clothing will be classy, ornate and quite a few often attentively constructed to be able to reverance this richness involving it is lifestyle.

As soon as this specific joining together of traditional and fashionable bridal dresses is finished the idea echos their own national history and is also a new purposeful in addition to lovely technique with their modern day thoughts.

Get pleasure from putting on your traditional Asian kitchenware bridal gowns as well as combination these individuals using the westernized wedding gowns for a absolutely lovely wedding ceremony.

For just a conventional star of the wedding who wants a Asian bridal dress it's rather a difficult process to locate one; maybe you have to buy on-line after which find a seamstress in order to complete it on your particular requirements.

Here are several intriguing info about the particular beautiful Hard anodized cookware bridal gowns.

Reddish will be the standard colour associated with sukienki Cookware wedding planning have on; the particular gowns are made from loaded materials with vibrant colours along with embellished together with lavish adornments along with beading.

The actual garments are generally consultant regarding regular clothes worn because of the brides to be of that lifestyle.

Your Asian star of the wedding usually will not don some sort of veil which addresses the girl experience, as an alternative a opulent headpieces is actually just what they usually use.

Though just about every Cookware country possesses their unique sort of standard attire along with type they will complete many tend to be ornately comprehensive as well as use loaded fabrics.

Shiro-Maku

The traditional dress from the Japanese people bride-to-be is in fact 2 kimonos: a new white brocade kimono and that is utilized through the service and a different multi-colored kimono named any uchikake with the wedding celebration.

Really standard Japanese wedding, the bride's tresses is completed with quite a few rare metal combs that is covered by any white-colored headpiece known as the tsuno kakushi; the particular protecting with the gold combs is a symbol of behavior training.

Cheongsam

Some sort of Southern Chinese woman, because is usually tailor made, has on the shiny red attire; with Cina this particular stands for fortune.

Your Cheongsam is a a couple piece gown.

It's stitched using dragons and also a phoenix az and also typically accomplished for the most part within platinum; the sides of the blouse in addition to jacket ordinarily have a gold toned additionally.

The traditional wedding planning overhead has beading and also materials balls ahead, it is extremely ornate can often be just about the most pricey items of your ensemble.

Jeogori along with Chima

The actual Korean ladies marriage ceremony clothing has a jeogori, a brief coat along with lengthy masturbator sleeves and also two long wide lace that happen to be linked with style this otgoreum.

A chima is a full-length, high-waisted, wrap-around skirt.

Boat-shaped footwear, made from silk, are usually donned along with bright cotton socks.

The particular bride's attire may possibly such as a white-colored sash together with considerable emblems or maybe blooms; the headpiece or even top may also be used.

Your norigae is really a hanbok decor that's recently been worn by almost all courses associated with Korean women since then, it's stuck just using this dress or even the lace around the jacket; the actual knot on top is known as this Maedeup.

Thai Bridal dress

There is not real concept of any "Thai wedding dress", it had been generally the official Thai garments designed to always be donned over and over again.

The particular Thai consider regular attire to be elegant along with extremely versatile, consequently tend not to desire to throw away such beauty simply by donning that only one time. Time and effort along with health care adopts developing a regular Thai attire therefore it is made to be put on, liked and also liked typically as is possible.

The standard Thai dress is a hand-woven dress crafted from silk cotton, any materials that is certainly more http://wordpress.org trendy as well as comfy within a warm local climate like Thailand provides.

Ao Dai and also Ao Choang

Vietnamese bridal dresses use a prolonged record steeped the item Vietnamese convention.

Ao Dai indicates "long dress".

First variations composed of four to be able to 5 sections associated with soft, streaming material, split over loose-fitting trousers with the same product; the number of tiers usually signified this wealth in the man or woman sporting that -- the more panels or even tiers, this wealthy the person.

Some of the quite rich might perhaps put on several ao dai simultaneously.

Currently, most ao dai consist of only a couple of portions: any gown which is worn more than a set of free man made fiber trousers; clothing may vary long by just beneath your leg completely on the terrain.

The gown includes 2 in order to several cells, includes a well-fitted bodice, and is also break up within the features on the waist along; first types acquired control keys the entry or perhaps privately.

This necklines typically vary between 2 variations, the actual "boat" style or perhaps the "mandarin" style.

The particular "boat" type can be much more available, over neck of the guitar in addition to recommended inside more comfortable climates.

Your "mandarin" design is a excessive inflexible receiver collar - along the dog collar based on the individual sporting the idea.

Sometimes, this scruff of the neck is actually shaped with the quite a few levels (or perhaps colorings) in the ao dai : up to several at the same time. Often, any low-scooped throat style will be put on, although they're less widespread.

The majority of ao dai tend to be tailor made tailored, fitted to the person's entire body. A few lesser high quality ao dai's are mass produced, nevertheless, certainly, they are fewer fixed in addition to connected with typical designs.

On her marriage, this bride-to-be would wear an exterior robe (the particular ao choang) on the ao dai to manufacture a much more official appear.

Red is the marital life wedding dress shade, while vivid red could also be used. On occasion, platinum silk trims the particular ao dai and/or the ao choang.

Exclusive trimmings will often be coated as well as stitched within the clothe along with the couple's brands, inside Korean, as well as gorgeous photos are used since trimmings down the receiver collar, cuff or rear.

The bride's go will be featured using a matching headpiece; possibly your no los angeles (the cone-shaped head wear created from dried, stiched foliage) as well as the actual khanh vanh that lots of people declare looks like some sort of flying saucer!

Through the wedding day, this bride and groom might adjust their particular outfits as many as 3 or 4 instances -- coming from a western-style bridal dress and also white-colored tuxedo, towards the ao dai for both special couple, in order to elegant evening gown as well as dark-colored tuxedo.

All round, the particular ao dai is often a elegant, stately fancy dress, lovely to just about any number. In reality that has changed into a well-known garment throughout traditional western way of life likewise.

Modern day Tendencies with Cookware Wedding Attire

Custom remains to be greatly recognized in many Asian kitchenware nationalities; even so, people are finding that the mixture of standard attire as well as modern your wedding gown is usually just what they might such as for their weddings with 2011 in addition to beyond.

As an example, a few may decide to don a lot more westernized dress for that wedding and then change into his or her conventional clothes for the wedding party.

Regardless your Oriental region, wedding ceremony dress is actually tasteful, elaborate and the majority usually attentively made in order to honor the particular richness involving the lifestyle.

As soon as this kind of blending together regarding conventional along with modern-day designer wedding dresses is finished it demonstrates their particular social heritage and is also any purposeful in addition to beautiful approach with their modern day tips.

Delight in donning your standard Oriental designer wedding dresses and also blend these individuals while using westernized wedding dresses for a actually beautiful big day.

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