I'm just curious. It makes no sense to me that some Vietnamese people either worship a Jew or a Hindu. There must be a Vietnamese philosopher God in some of our native religions right?

Đạo mẫu

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90%E1%BA%...i%E1%BB%87t_Nam

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E1%BB%A9_ph%E1%BB%A7

The "tứ phủ" in đạo mẫu are

Mother of the Sky (rules over the sky and in control of natural phenomenons like rain, storm, thunder...)
Mother of Mountains and Forests (rules over mountains and forests, endow life with natural resources)
Mother of Water/River (rules over water realms, assists agriculture and fisheries)
Mother of the Earth (rules over land where life is conceived)


Sometimes (I guess more often) they're presented in tam phủ with only 3 mothers - Mothers of Sky, Earth/Land, and Water (no mountains and forests)







I guess the universal colors are: Red for mother of the Sky, Green for Earth, and White for Water


Aside the three or four main "mothers" mentioned above there are also other "mothers"...In short these mothers are like "goddesses".

wow. I like this religion. It reminds me of the Tibetian's view of tallest peak in the Himalayas. Thy called it ཇོ་མོ་གླང་མ or Chomolungma, literal translation is Holy Mother.

It seems that Vietnamese worship more women figures than men figures, I mean in their native religions. Or should I say they use women figures to represent "deities" of sky, water, earth...rather than men.

yeah

Why is it Asians like to follow non-Asian religions like Christianity and Islam? Even Buddhism was founded by an Indo-Aryan.

Out of curiosity, do the Vietnamese have their version of a Sky Father?
http://www.ethnikoi.org/tengrianism.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tian

In Vietnamese language, the sky is called "Grandpa Sky" - so that indicates the sky is a male.

Earth on the other hand is associated with the female gender "Mother Earth"

Sky is father, earth is mother.


But in this particular religion, both sky and earth are represented by goddesses, not male gods.

Place xixon on an alter and i'll worship her

The Viet kings of old should have adopted a religion that is unique to Vietnam. That is the only way to promote unity and preserve customs. When you adopt a foreign religion, you subject yourself to their capitalist trap. My grandmother spent her life savings to buy a rosary necklace made from ivory and ebony wood. It was likely made in Italy. I believe a significant part of the Italian economy is built around the selling of religious artifacts. If we had our own religion, it'd be Vietnamese faithfuls buying from other Vietnamese artisans.

She's my Chomolungma

Doesnt Vietnamese worship their ancestors? Not good enough?

Old Viet kings are too busy practicing Confucianism. It serves their best interest as it promotes absolute loyalty to the imperial court.

Religious artifacts made of ivory are very likely to had been crafted in the oriental world. And no country has a large chuck of their economy dependent on selling religious items; religious economy isn't tourism.

As far as native beliefs are concerned, ancestor worshipping is the most prominent of all. Doesn't matter a Buddhist or a Christian Vietnamese house you are visiting, portrait of forefathers are always on one of the highest altars in the house.

I am deeply offended by everyone's casual commentaries about religion and God, after all God isn't able to defend heself.

Islam doesn't depict God as a humanoid figure therefore it is racially neutral

The downside of Islam is their clothing, treatment of women and death fatwas against those who wish to leave it. On the other hand when you die you are guaranteed 72 virgins

This makes Islam rather exclusive. What do women and gay men do with virgins?

They could go shopping at Wal Mart and gossip about Justin Bible, but honestly I don't know, please refrain from asking difficult hypothetical questions. Allah hu akhbar !!!

Gautham Buddha, also known as Siddhartha in his childhood was not an Indo-Aryan. He was of Mongoloid mostly with some Aryan and Dravidian. He was born in Lumbini, in the present day Nepal. Here Mongoloid people constitute around 40% of the population. And the rest are inter mixed between Mongoloid, Aryan and Dravidian races.

Also till 300 years after the death of Buddha, Buddhism did not spread out of India except till Myanmar. At that time there was a ruthless emperor by name Ashoka. He mercilessly used to make his army kill thousands of people just ofr fun. Once he attacked the kingdom of Kalinga and made his army kill the people, even women and children. Then after the war, he walked around the city and seeing the blood everywhere, he knelt towards the earth and cried. That night he got a dream of Buddha who asked him to leave his ways and help people everywhere.

Then Ashoka converted into Buddhism from Hinduism and then he sent his children to Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, China etc to teach them non-violence.

Here comes another post that seems to be interested in God and religion and ends up bashing it. What's more important is you don't abuse religion and not let it abuse you. Believe whatever you want and don't go about ridiculing others who don't believe the way you do.

Picking on God is like picking on a helpless child. Why don't you people go pick on someone your own size?

The mother of sky thing is originally a Chinese belief,vietnamese just altered a few details and changed their ethinity.Dont quote me though,I cant be sure.

I wonder what mentality made you came to this conclusion

You're talking about her
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsu_(goddess)

Eh,why do you have to pretend you know what im talking about??lol.you are so arrogant and full of yourself.

Then which are you talking about? I hope you didn't just make up a figure.

Your criticisms of others are always a reflect of yourself.

Oh really?Seems like you are always on AF attacking people,so what does that say about you?

I'm saying this because you're either talking about her, or Nuwa, or Xi Wangmu, or that mother of ten sun story. None of them is similar to mẫu thượng thiên in Vietnamese. I picked Tianhou because she got the word "sky" in her name, and that's about the closest you can get to Mother of the Sky of Vietnamese.

Don't go off topic. I'm curious which Chinese figure you're talking about that was so similar to the Vietnamese deity.

Why are you suddenly going down the road of personal attack? Can't you stick to the matter that you yourself brought up?

I dont remember the names,but its like sky,earth,rivers,and trees.
And u were attacking me,here and on the other thread,like a crazy dog on meth,I didnt attack you,lady.

I suggest you know the matter before you speak of them, sir.

Please reread your posts and mine to see who was going out the way.

Back to the matter, this cult got origin in animism (Information here) which was what most cultures practiced at the dawn of humans. Native Americans also have deities for the sky, river, earth, thunder, forests... Natural forces had huge impact on humans and dictated their crops and livelihoods. Humans prayed to these forces for a peaceful, prosperous, undisturbed life.

The Mother of the Sky deity is Princess Liễu Hạnh (someone said to be the reincarnation of the goddess on earth), one of the Four Immortals of Vietnamese that have little to do with China (the other three being Tản Viên, Thánh Gióng, Chử Đồng Tử). None of these four figures exists in China.

I'm curious on the Chinese deities you're talking about and I'd like to see a source about them.

Thanks for the vague explanation and example that fail to prove anything of significance to your argument.

I know that you had gotten into heated bashing spree with Ilikeasians, but that doesn't mean you can just come and raid our chat like this. You sure are pulling me into a downwards spiral into blinded and uncontrollable bashing. All started because of Nanyue's recent threat, which I have warned everyone not to take too seriously.

I think its this:
天母 Tianmu:

地母/大地之母 Dimu：

http://www.google.com.hk/imgres?imgurl=htt...ved=0CBgQ9QEwAQ




Vietnamese copying from the Chinese,thats some kinda big news to you?And I meant that in the politest way possible.

proof?

Aren't china still copying from the world? Or is it just USA/Nato/Western/White Man/Vietnam/Sony/Apple/Toshiba/Acer/Microsoft/Nintendo/Bestbuy/walmart/Food Depot/Bill Gates/Miley Cyrus/hollywood propaganda?

They're not even the same, and the only thing similar about them is they have similar English translation of their name, given the benefit of the doubt that they're actually widely worshiped in China.

I must saying you're being very pretentious and you're doing a very bad job at it, you don't think anybody would know.

The goddess cult is something of indigenous Vietnam, all scholars from west and east who've studied this know. I think only an arrogant yet ignorant person with a mentality that everything comes from China like you would make such bold statement with little evidence to back up.

Also I hope you didn't just translate the names I gave back to Chinese and made that their names. Looks like you just did. If so you failed, because the names of these figures aren't Thiên Mẫu, Địa Mẫu or whatever. They're called Bà Chúa Xứ/Mẫu Thượng Thiên, Bà Đất/Mẫu Thượng Ngàn, Bà chúa Lạch/Mẫu Thoải...

Some of these words seem to be remnants of a very ancient language in Vietnam. For example, "Lạch" doesn't mean a thing in Vietnamese now. The closest to it is probably lách, which means to dodge. But when take it etymologically, it sounds like Lạc, which is related to Nác --> Nước (water) in modern Vietnamese. It's the same as in Lạc Việt (Water/Country of Viet).

You came in here, seeing my English translation of their names, and go back google Tianmu, Dimu in Chinese. How lame.

Next time, I will tell the story of these goddesses to show they're indigenous, but I'm afraid you may copy it.

Thanks for providing a link to the Earth Goddess, which talk nothing about the sky, to prove that the Vietnamese Mother of the Sky was a rip off of the Chinese. Vietnam being influenced by China is nothing new, but Chinese claiming that everything single aspect of the Vietnamese cultural life is of Chinese origin isn't a rare occurrence and isn't something new, either.

This may have more to do with your Tianmu, she's called Thien Mu in Vietnamese. And no, she is not the Mother of the Sky Lieu Hanh, nor is she as revered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thien_Mu_Pagoda

oolong why are you so sensitive? did you get on the internet just yesterday?

One child policy means he doesn't have any siblings to play with. Pity this troll but don't feed him any more or he'll get too fat.

he's not the worst troll though

Trolling can be addictive. The idea is to practice in moderation.

No,天母 and 地母 are actually what they are called.地母 is also called 地藏王娘娘.You can check in that link I gave you.Or is truth just really that hard for you to accept?


I did say theres details altered by the vietnamese.You can google 天母,but its a name of a taiwanese city so you may get a lot of unrelated results.



Because I care about the truth more than protecting XG's feelings and pride?And I said dont quote me and blah blah blah,but they just started to freak out anyway,do people need to be especially careful when talking to vietnamese becuase they are very sensitive and people are not allowed to hurt their feelings?

I think she learned it from Americans, who like to put down anything they don't like to hear. If you can hate the asian girl xg, then you really won't be able to stand westerners.

You are saying I should lower the standard when dealing with XG?LOL,noted.

ehhh, no. I said to raise your understanding...

potayto potahto.

well, what you said was that anyone different is a lower level than you. not exactly what I meant to say.

Eh,no,what I said is XG is a lower level than people I generally deal with,if you have to be so technical.

fine. anyway she is a girl, even though her education tries to teach her that she's not.

What truth is there? Even if the Thiện Mụ pagoda in Huế is the same as yours, they're still not Lieu Hanh. Did you even read? Your claim that those four deities are from Chinese figures are baseless. You're just got a typical mind that everything is from China even when they're clearly not.





Btw those who think doublemint is a strong. He is not, because a troll generally doesn't believe in what he says, he just wants to instigates. Doublemint on the other hand truly believes in what he says.

lol.


My understanding has been raised XG.You can believe whatever you want.

It's likely got some Chinese influence but it has become Vietnamese. It's like 观音 to Chinese is a native god, no one cares if the origin is Indian or not.

Boron, this is the not the same as that. This got roots when people were still worshiping spirits. Geez, gods and goddesses of natural forces are plenty in early human practices. Why does everything have to be Chinese?

The Four Immortals of Vietnam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Immortals

Don't claim them to be Chinese please

I know Vietnamese culture is influenced by Chinese culture, but it's happened so frequently that ignorant Chinese claim everything from Vietnam to be theirs even when it's not.

yellow river mother:



祠山mountain god. Chinese mountain gods tend to be specific to some mountain and they tend to be male.


I'm just saying those four gods you mentions are in Chinese lore also. Some amount of influence is pretty likely. Those statues you posted are in a style pretty common in Chinese temples too.

Yeah I don't think these are Chinese at all.