http://www.rense.com/general37/nkorr.htm

It's pretty pessamistic.. For our Military Experts, how accurate is this article?

its probably true, thats why the US so scared or north korea and china

It's interesting that the article completely omits South Korea's defence capabilities. It's as if South Korea was totally dependent on the U.S. for its security. That's not the case. M1A2 may not be suitable for warfare in hilly terrains, but the South Korean K1A1 is built for hilly terrains and it was ranked as one of the top ten tanks in the world. South Korea also has significant numbers of special forces ready at hand, who use top-of-the-line equipment and trained to put U.S. Navy SEALs to shame. That article is not an overestimation. That article just didn't mention North Korea's main rival.

The article is severely biased. Mig21 > US fighers? Not quite convincing.

if war broke out, would Seoul really be completely decimated?

From artillery fire yes... it depend on what you mean by complete decimation. There would be building wreckages all over the place.

most americans forget that south korea has one of the most impressive ground forces in the world. In fact, during the cold war, none has ever shown the ferocious effectivness that the ROK marines have shown in vietnam. Not only that, south korean military in general is pretty high-tech and developed well in terms of firepower. The south koreans are expected to do most of the fighting in the case of war, not the US. Of course, this is sad.

the situation kinda reminds me of the ancient three kingdoms, where the tang underestimated shilla and expected shilla to be grateful for tang help in crushing koguryo and paekche. Most of the successful ground warfare was conducted by shilla, whose hwarang system worked excellently. The tang lost all the battles prior to koguryo's self-implosion. Now are the south koreans going to recreate that crucial mistake in our peoples' history by helping a foreign power conquer another korean state?

north korea's biggest threat is south korea and american nukes. Without south korea the US couldnt possibly crush north korea.

This article is outdated, and makes bs claims about North Korea's capabilities. For example I enjoyed his claim that the T-62 has 700mm of armor and has a 155mm barrel. The armor on the T-62 can easily penetrated by dragon 1 and 2 missles and suffers from numerous design flaws even in its own time, flaws like rapid buildup of carbon monoxide and limited NBC capabilities. NBC capabilities are especially important in the war in Korea, the peninsula has one of largest stockpiles of chemical and biological warfare agents in the world. And the ROK forces, especially the FROKA and the TROKA have superb NBC protection and are well-drilled in such attacks. KPA forces on the other hand, are not adequately protected, even their mechanized divisions can be vulnerable. In fact if wind conditions are right, then the chemical agents fired from North Korea can cause severe damage to their unprotected troops.

As for the artillery pieces pointing at Seoul, they are used as bargaining chips to get concessions from US and ROK (like their nukes). In the outbreak of the war they are not going to waste their time and effort shelling civilian targets, especially considering the heavily defended area along our side of the dmz. They will have to make use of all their artillery to make a breakthrough against half a million fortified ROK soldiers who can be reinforced by 4 million reservists within a week. Though for offensive purposes the NK artillery is overrated, our casualties are going to be high due to fact that we have a high density of combat troops in the area, but their positions are heavily fortified and prepared for such attacks, so the ROK army will still be in fighting shape. As for counter-battery fire, its is qualitively superior to the North Korean artillery, the K9 Thunder SPA is the second best of its type in the world because it was expected to go against one of the largest concentration of artillery. A single K9 Thunder can produce more then 5 times the firepower of any of the North Korean artillery, and has an effective range of 40km with conventional rounds which is equal to the PZH2000 and superior to all others. Its has a longer efffective range using base-bleed rounds and Rocket Assisted Projectiles, which puts nearly all the KPA artillery within range. Though its greatest strength lies not in its firepower but in its mobility and target acquisition, it can move and acquire a new target in one minute avoiding enemy counter-battery fire, this gives it superb survivability. Its also known that every battery position is mapped in NK, so they K9 wouldn't have much trouble acquiring a new target.

With that said, you wouldn't find any country outside of Russia who knows Soviet war doctrine better then the North Koreans. They stage numerous massive wargames and the war colleges teach the doctrine comprehensively. Plus, they've adapted the tactics in their enviroment and current events. Another one of their strengths is that the NK infantry are very hardcore, the regulars go through training that makes the Iraqi Special Republican Guard troops look like pussies. I still have no doubt that ROK conventional forces can defeat the KPA forces alone, but after the 'victory' I'm afraid that many of the KPA soldiers would go underground and conduct guerilla warfare. The unconventional warfare in Korea, is going to make Iraq situation look like a Theme park.

If you guys want to know what this article is really about. Its about the military trying to scare the ROK government into increasing the budget for defense. That is what this is about.



Damn straight. The ROK army is the 6th largest in the world, backed up by the 2nd largest reserves (5 million reservists) and 2nd largest Marine Corp. Our soldiers are probably among the best-trained fighting soldiers in the world, better-trained and disciplined then the US. Backed up by state-of-the-art technology like K9 Thunders, Singung, K-30, and the F15K and you have a formula for one of the fiercest fighting forces in the world. In fact the F15K is the only F15 variant to fire Harpoon 2 missles and will be the only fighter other then the F-22 raptor to be equipped with APG-63(V)2 radar.

Here's one of the signatures of a ROK army division:




The message clearly says "Don't fu-k with us!" 2

::deleted::

North Korea would have no chance against US Air Superiority... i dont think US needs to even land on the ground to defeat North Korea. US planes launch from Aircraft carrier(s) could pound North Korean tank coulmns to dust and if those wernt enough an army strike group with AH-64 appache with long bow systems can pummel the rest of what survive of its armored corps. 80 percent of NK's army would probably be destroyed by US's air superiority Alone and that woul be a good guess since the North Korea uses an old communistic style of warfare wich is to overwhelm a possition with massive amount of troops (conscripts with little or no training) ( wich by the way well trained North Koreans would probobly only be a very very tiny fraction of the army since North Korea do not have the faunds to even feed it people more so train a professional army) and the guy that said South Korea has the 2nd best artys in the world thats nice but why would you go arty vs arty against North Korea.. An airstrike would be a more modern and sensable action against those threats and a much faster solution( f-117 and b2's would be suitable if SAM and AAA's are thick but if not f-18 and f14s would do the trick and the NK Airforce would be in no possition to oppose it, mig-21's and probable left over mig17's are vastly inferior to more modern US fighters) . And us is not scared of North Koreas army US is scared of their Nukes( US beat the hell out of Iraq wich i belive was the former 3rd largest army in the world and amore modern army that NK they actually have tank columns that were well suplied and qeuiped with t-72's and some t-80s i belived and an Airforce consisting of mig-25's and 29's) .. and withought US's help allot of south Koreans would be mourning their losses.. 1/7 at the most would loose someone in their family.

It's interesting that you mention air superiority, because the fact is that North Korea is very prepared against air supremacy of an opposing force. They have an extensive network of underground fortifications such as tunnels and bunkers. They even have an underground airbase. And to say that North Korea has massive amount of troops with conscripts with little or no training shows your completely ignorance of the military situation in Korea. North Koreans receive military traning beginning in their middle school(maybe even elementary), and they're probably the most trained army in the world. It's said that the U.S. marine has the training of an ordinary South Korean soldier, and the South Korean marines have the training of an ordinary North Korean soldier.

yes indeed they are trained from youth but its very small fraction and probably make up of the north korean(like i mentioned please do read my post carefully) "eleets" wich i belived resides on the capital of NK.

and no matterhow long they trained they wouldnt match the intesive and dedicated training of US armed force wich is well faunded(hosts the expensive and the best wargames in the world wich actuallyis preaty realistic wich covers all military branches of the US amred force) made up of determined volounteers .
those tunnels have been found and would be blown up with ease by more modern bunker busters and other future tunnels would be pathetic US would simply find out where those are instaantly dont forget satelite imaging.. nothing North Korea can hide from US. based on troop movement and construction of certain buildings.

and u said it yourself undergorund bases tunnels.... who found those out?
simply if they know about it US already has counter for it by now..

BTW the first article on top... was missinformed and incorrect in manyways specially on the american training and and retaliation part... i suggest you fire up google and research more about US military capabilities vs N.korea.

I really hope you mean it's the other way around. In a military sense, America doesn't need any allies at this stage of time.

Kim Jong Il - I'll devise my secret weapon , I will then take the world hostage for a ransom of ................... 1 million dollars. I call it the skeleton of evil. muahahhah



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT THE SKELETON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO KIM JONG IL

Its pretty true that American forces IN Korea will be overunned in a few days. They're all targeted with artillery from NK anyways. They'd get pounded pretty quick. But that's not counting American forces outside of Korea. And I suppose not counting SK troops either. US has blatant air superiority. That's a fact. Is NK a threat to America? Hell fu-king no. I didn't read the entire article, but it's pretty blatantly idiotic. Suddam used to be arrogant enough to claim that Desert Storm would be the war of the century. And then we rolled through Kuwait in a few days. We could have gone all the way to Baghdad if we felt obliged. Maybe NK is superior. Terrain is more in their favor. But I still say it'll be a 'cakewalk.' Between SK and America you have two of the largest armies in the world. I'd imagine UN would throw its 2 cents in as well. Japan, Canada, etc. It would basically be NK VS the World. China won't back NK unless we severly wronged China somehow. Very severly.

Who's gnarlier...SK Special Ops or NK Special Ops?

some of you guys clearly have no real grasp of the military strengths of the forces involved. The article is full of $hit in many ways, but the solid facts themselves tell that north korea is very well prepared for war with the US, and in fact the US's knowledge of north korea's fighting force is just the tip of the iceberg.

many of you have an exaggerated sense of US military power. To tell you a truth, the US ground forces are really weak, there is no other military with such a blatant weakness in MANpower than the US. Why? Because the US is scared of casualties, too fond of the price of life, and are grossly ineffective in carrying out operations on the organizational level. Not only that, americans in general are weak mentally. Since the world wars the US ground forces owe much to the air and naval forces, and in defeating germany the soviets won it on the ground, not the US. What the US best does in warfare is pounding from the air, and this the north koreans know very well. Which is why their entire military installations are underground, meters beyond bunkerbuster reach, and with fakes to top it off. Read the article again, and you'll see that north korea has adapted and forged itself to an ultimate fortress that will work on their own terrain.

Don't be so fu-kin conceited about US power, since it's really superfical at best. THe US would have to use most of its resources in invading north korea, which is also technicaly impossible with the troops and resources stretched around the world. All those articles written by the west that really terribly underestimate north korea are written to encourage war, by those who dont even know jack $hit. THe ones who would know best about north korea, the american military commanders in south korea and those in the pentagon warroom, all know that north korea's capabilities pretty much ensure their triumph, with nukes or not. North korea is even nuke proof, and unlike in germany, or iraq, american air forces cant shut north korea down by targeting factories or plants, since the intricate networks to protect them are all underground.

and dude, whoever thinks iraq's military capabilites were better than north korea's dont deserve being responded to, but that just shows how little you know. Third largest? Iraq never even came close. At most Iraq during the heydays prior to the first gulf war had lesser than south korea's standing army. ANd comparing to Iraq is the best way to demonstrate how strong north korea is, if anything, which is why that above article constantly compares north korea's fighting power to iraq.

And of course, north korea's people and troops are the best trained for war, they live in war.

THe thing is, South korea definitely needs to fight the ground wars if america wishes to win. This is a fact, and all those fancy wargames prove that.

You miss the point of modern warfare. Pure man power means jack$hit now.

You miss the point of underground fortifications and mountainous terrains. Trained and well armed manpower does matter in such circumstances.

Although the environment of the battlefield is extremely crucial, NK's should not be a problem as compared to, oh say the jungles of Vietnam. As long as America has air superiority, fortifications and mountainous terrains will not matter.

And no, well armed manpower still won't matter as the first wave of attack. Why send in troops when the area can be bombed? Despite it being underground, the radius of attack bombs these days is amazing.

There will never be an infantry battle in NK anyways. Kim Jong Il is a madman and launching nukes anywhere ending in the destruction of the world is entirely pausible. Any nation it fires on, the other will fire back.

North Korean fortifications are made to counter America's air superiority. That's a lesson they learned from the Korean War. U.S. won't be able to penetrate those fortifications with conventional bombs. They'll have to use bunker busters. North Korea also has a significant mechanized army, and an air force for that matter. It's not like the U.S. will achieve air supremecy in an instant.

North Korea does not have enough nukes to destroy the world, and those nukes are most likely to be used as leverages against U.S. reinforcements. "We'll nuke Japan if you send more reinforcements", that's how it goes.

Which ever side overcomes the fear factor of casualities will eventually rise above the other.

There's no weapon more overrated and glorified then air supremacy. The airforce doesn't deserve all that hog time on tv for crippling inept iraqi forces in a middle of fu-king desert (who btw weren't nicknamed the "French of the Arab world" by other arabs for nothing), and the American DOD admited that the skills and training of American forces contributed more to the success of the US operation in Iraq and Afghanistan more then technology or air supremacy. Just take a look at the ground battles between US and Iraqi forces, and you'll see its a one-sided potshot. Stories like about dozen british tanks destroying 80 iraqi tanks and armored vehicles, or a outnumbered unit slaughtering 35 insurgents out of 100 with no friendly casualties (in a firefight AND then in h2h combat) deserved more coverage then they did.

And oblivion is right, your comments shows us that you clearly don't know anything about the military situation in Korea.



No $hit that air power is going to be used, it will be a very important asset. But its not the "end all" weapon your idiotic mind makes it out to be. Artillery is more cost-effective and reliable. I don't know where you even get the idea that airstrike are a faster solution, all the artillery units in the FROK and TROK are operational and in position so they can brought up in an instant. When coordinating the artillery units, South Korea can deliver a monstrous amounts of ordinance at KPA positions, and with added advantage that the SPA is far better as a counter-battery weapon then bombers because it can acquire a new target and deliver fire much faster. We don't even need a grossly superior airforce to bombard NKorean vanguard units in the manuever routes, those routes in of itself are deathtraps, and we can do just fine with MRLS.

A second Korean war would do the same for the artillery, what the iraq and afghanistan wars did for the airforce.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ITS THE SKELETON OF DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Half of war is about preparedness....north korea has prepared for america for 50 years now. They've learned the lesson in the korean war so hardcore, since they've experienced the holocaust they were determined to not let that happen again. While the US military was focusing on building bases and maintaining them all over the world to counter the soviet expansion, the north korean military focused solely on the US. The north koreans studied the US military in every single past conflicts such as vietnam, panama, kosovo, somalia, gulf war 1, gulf war 2, in addition to covering all the lessons learned in the korean war. They've got the weakness and strengths of the US military DOWN.
Not only that, just like koguryo, north korea devised war plans using maximum advantage of their mountainous terrain. THe US has absolutely no mountain-warfare experience other than the korean war, and back then korean mountains were stripped of trees(by the Japanese). Like the article pointed out, north korea produces nearly all its weapons, one of the few countries in the world that does, and its weapons are designed to be best maneuverable in such terrain.

The US's traditional weakness on the ground and its aversion to casualties has developed into an allergic reaction to anything but swift victory. Look at Iraq right now, already US troops there are questioning why they are there, and their morale hit amazing lows after experiencing a few setbacks. In the first minutes of war the north koreans would make america pay so dearly that american morale would crash. North korean morale on the other hand, would be undefeatable. Unlike US soldiers who in their vain arrogance expect to win-win everywhere, north korean soldiers are prepared to die.

north koreans are prepared for war like no other country has been since world war 2, and everything they did to prepare for it was concentrated on a single enemy and a small mountainous land to protect. Every north korean citizen, men and women, and almost every north korean factory can be transformed for war in a single hour. They have enough gas masks for every soldier AND civilian. North korean school children learn basic military drills in their Physical education. Winning a war requires preparedness, knowledge of the enemy, skilled generals, and a will to fight. It doesnt have to do with manpower and firepower.

whoah whoah. first off, ever been in the US force preferably Infantry ie marines or army?

second of all when you said you all overestimate us power, haven't you also understimated it?

The U.S imperialists have no chance if they insist on waging aggresive war against the north.

As long as the people's army unite under the banner of protecting the socialist motherland against the US imperial aggressor they are doomed to fail just as they failed in 1953.

The U.S is like a paper tiger that looks fierce but bullies small nations in order to release its ego on the world under the guise of "freedom and democracy".

haha^ whoa i was just thinking, what happened to kim_jong_il?
where've you been man?

I guess the recent breakthroughs in the six party talks just convinced him to talk again..

this is a scary thought....

I am just wondering where the USA is going to have troops to invade NK in the timeframe of 10-15 years.

I mean USA has no intention of leaving the middle east anytime soon and USA military recruiters are having a hard time getting new troops into the system.

Last time USA had a Korean war it ended in a standstill, don't see anything different now that would change the results. In fact with USA forces strech so thin and economy so dependent on Japan and China purchasing US bonds, not the mention dependence on China manufacturing base. I don't USA could survive economically in a prolong war in Asia pitted against the PRC using Korea(s) as a proxy.

Honestly, without the use of nucular weapons, you think NK has a chance against America? NK's efforts to fight are beyond those of any other modern country, but that alone does not justify their victory. Unless you imagine NK as a Soviet Russia against Nazi Germany, which is quite absurd.

EDIT: About NK having enough nucular weapons to destroy the world: Yes they do if they trigger them toward an opposing country with nukes as well. It's obvious any country's reaction to a nucular attack by NK upon them will be to fire back.

very true... The United States knows that thats why its the most powerfull country and Armed forces on the face of this planet

Il wage war right now... in this forum .... !!!!!!! ROLL THE DIECEE!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

NOT THE SKELETON OF DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYTHIGN BUT THAT KIM JONG IL!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

First of all.. the terrain.. wouldnt matter that much remember Korea is a preaty small peninsula and the US would mostlikly capture key Industry cities ( maybe airborn assult of sort) and other city in order to win so its apreaty good bet that most of the fighting would be of urban combat wich US is very very good at...

dude, with all due respect, read the article. You clearly show that you havent read the article, and you dont even really have the basic facts straight. You've got the wrong idea of north korea man.

Of course. We're all idiots. The US military sucks balls. Everybody b!tches about American 'imperialism' yet despite the fact that our military is 'superficial' at best, they do nothing about it. Stop talking like you're an expert on the subject. The US military isn't about brute force. It's about precision. If you're so sure NK can take on US and that our military is 'superficial,' why doesn't Kim Jong Il take us on? That's what he wants afterall. I'd say thats one of his biggest motivations in life.


Really? So you have detailed information on NK forces? Please enlighten us.


Like I said, the American military is about fighting 10:1 odds. We've trained that way since the Cold War. US Military tactics during that period we're under the assumption that we would be fighting a far greater number of soviet units. We still rely on that today.

Soviets fought the ground battles in WW2? Are you fu-king kidding? You're aware that that war was fought on two fronts, correct? We met the Soviets in Berlin and did nearly as much ground fighting as the Soviets.

And you do know jack $hit? Yes NK triumph is a given. That's what those guys in the Pentagon warroom know. And for whatever reason, despite the fact that NK is a given triumph, they do nothing to prepare for that given triumph.

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Underground tunnels or not, if we wanted to fight a war of attrition, we would win. We'd surround the peninsula with boats. Bombard it from there. Hit it from the sky. And they can hide in their tunnels. And unless theres a completely self-sufficient city in there that can harbor millions of people for years, they'll eventually have to give up. And that's how we'll play the game.


I'm going to go on a whim and assume somehow you misread my post. No where did I say Iraq's capabilities were better than NK. I used that as an example of arrogance. Desert Storm was suppose to be the 'war of the century' or something according to Suddam. We rolled through him like bread on butter. You say the US Forces are greatly overestimated? I say most opposing forces underestimate us including you. Just arrogance.


NK troops live in war? What war? I'm unaware of them ever fighting in a recent war. NK troops are untested at best. Unless they're shooting each other, I'm unaware of NK troops even having any real combat experience.

shut the hell up you mongrel son of a b!tch, i dont want to hear from a fu-kin son of a Tongduchon whore such pro-american warmongering bull$hit. Your post already says a lot about your fu-kin ignorance. you dont even know that north koreans have war experience in africa and vietnam, and are blatantly ignorant of the fact that north korea and the US are technically still at war, and battles have been happening here and there. Haven't you even heard about the submarine landings? The hundreds of secret ops done by both north and south korean forces? the encounters and deaths?

and waht?? kim jong-il wants war? I dont see why i'm even wasting time with such an ignorant mutt that you are. You have no idea of what north korea has gone through in the korean war, the holocaust you fu-kin americans rained on them, and you have no idea who kim jong-il is. He's the last one who wants war, you idiot, jesus christ "his biggest motivation in life"
LOL just tells how far you are from an independent thinker. You just believ e your fascist media huh? kim is an evil man who wants to nuke the world, eh?

Attrition you say? Jesus you have absolutely no grasp on the US's current situation. THe US military CANNOT sustain a war of attrition. Already the Iraq war has stretched its military's resources to the brink, and the economic burden is huge. A war of attrition would surely be the way to defeat in a foreign invasion that half of the US public would disagree with to begin with. When hundreds of thousands of US troops die, and half its military stuck in korea, the americans would invade the capitol to bring troops back home. What makes you think the US is so invincible? LOL never learned the lessons of vietnam?

THe US's traditional weakness was in its ground forces, and this is a known fact by those who know, including the europeans. Dont even try to argue with me. I've already explained why.

And unlike you i dont pull $hit out of my own @$$, i have done my fair share of research.

Whoever believd the second iraq war to be a great war clearly doesnt know $hit. Iraq was a downed midget whose troops didnt even have the will to fight. Iraq's military was fundamentally weakened and saddam didnt even bother to rebuild it after the gulf war. That war was a bully picking on a little child. ANd north korea is certainly not a little child. It's one of the few countries that can wage total war against the US. And the US at its present state of imperial overstretch and massive deficits/spiraling economy can NOT have a total war.

You talk like you want war you fu-kin mutt, i take offense in your tone as well as your rotten attitude. What the fu-k was up with all those insults? Did i touch a sensitive patriot side of yours, that american stupidity that lingers within you? Really threatened because someone broke that myth of american might of yours?

american ground troops are just full of human trash, the stupidest, lowest kinds of human beings on the planet. My dad had trained with them before, and he knows. These worthless lots(like your dad maybe?) are themselves the single greatest flaw of US ground forces.

you dont really seem to see what kind of $hit you damn country is in. Dumbass leaders have overworked your engine. The US cannot and will not fight north korea. Only crazyass retards stuck in their comfortable offices in D.C. think the US should invade north korea, cuz like yourself they dont know JACK.$hit. Do i know jack $hit? WEll obviously better than your retarded half-ape, though not as much as those who are directly involved with assessing north korean military might, the intelligence and US commanders in south korea. ANd tHEY are the only ones who believe that a war would be VERY bad, cuz they know. I've once seen this interview with the supreme commander of US forces in south korea on '60 seconds', and the dude had profound respect for north korea's armed forces. World's largest special forces, yeah and blahblah.
The US will not invade north korea, trust me this will not happen cuz it's really suicidal.

BTW, why the fu-k do you have two accounts? that idiot Adobox was you?

Dude, read the fu-kin article. And SHut the fu-k up.

Brian T: America and the UK barely did any fighting when compared to the Soviet Union. The reason why America and UK entered the war during 1944? Because Germany at that time was certain to meet its demise. America was extremely afraid of Germany until victory was assured. Soviets, on the otherhand, fought all the way from 1941 to 1945, in the bloodiest battles in human history. The scale of battles such as Stalingrad (leaving around 2 million people dead alone) and Kursk (largest tank battle ever) are enormous.

America did a lot, but no where near the Soviet Union. Besides, America was already fighting a two front war themselves with the Japanese.

The USSR had over 20 million deaths whereas the Americans had around 200,000 in Europe.

Please note that Hitler ordered all of Germany's most elite troops to the Eastern Front and much weaker forces to defend the Western Front. I believe there were 13 million Germans fighting Russia and 3 Million fighting America and the UK.

Just because the article says so doesn't make it true... the opinion of one journalist makes you believe so? Although it might be possible, it's foolish to completely believe this.

^america let the russians die and waited out until the germans were certainly defeated.

kinda like a fake bully in school who goes over and kicks a fallen kid from behind and claims to have beaten him up. The other kid who actually did the fighting get's to claim only half the pie.

opportunist bastards. I feel for the soviets' mistrust of america, rather clearly.

in vietnam where the war was frontless, the US airforce less effective due to foliage, the US ground troops were left to their own devices, and failed miserably. If the US ground forces couldn't perform because the air power was limited by foliage, you think it'd be different in a renewed korean war where not just lush foliage but layers of rock protect them from the US air force? A country that has more tunnels than highways? A country that is ideal for special ops and extremely unideal for naval landings?

who says i completely believe it? didn't i say that it is full of $hit?
the article should be closely read by ignorants such as brian t who has apparently never seen such info. I've seen and heard about north korea's conventional warfare capabilities since before this nuclear crisis. As i said, people that know about it knows, it's not really a secret. But it's not exactly on the media either, so most americans are ignorant of it.

so such ignorant americans should read that article, cuz it's mostly true.

A few skirmishes doesn't make a veteran. Sorry.

Why else would he spend '50 years preparing,' as you call it. I don't think he wants to nuke the world, but I do believe he's very motivated to dethrone America. Are you going to tell me that propoganda against America isn't widely used? Are you going to tell me that Kim Jong Il doesn't demonize Americans?


You do realize that not even 1/4 of our military forces are deployed in Iraq? I believe currently one MEF is deployed, the 3rd ID, and the 101st Airborne. Yes, that's really stretching military resources. Did I say the US is SO invincible? No. Do I think they can take NK in a war? Yes.


Right...and you measure this in numbers and use generalizations like Americans are 'weak minded.' Whatever. No point arguing with the ignorant.


That statements just ironic.



Since when is Desert Storm the name of the operation for the second Iraq War. If you're going to come to a debate, learn how to read.


I didn't throw a single slur at you nor did I make any claims for pro-war. To me NK isn't even worth fighting for. If SK wants unity then they can do it politically. And no I don't feel threatened at all, but I do somehow feel obligated to call bs when I see it.

What?

I'm not sure who you are, but you don't know a great deal about the American military. And you make a lot of assumptions about the NK military. How about next time you stay out of these sorts of arguments because it's quite obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

And leave the racial slurs at home.

Warning and a 5 day temp ban for hi-head for blatant flaming and racist comments

I believe they could too.
Especially the All-Elite Woman Force he has.
Heehee.

Oh and not to mention The NK Snipers. Those dudesarekillerrr

son of a tongduchon whore, just shut the fu-k up. You dont know anything about the Realities of the US military situation, how badly it is tangled. I dont think you know as nearly as much as you claim to about your goddamn country's armed forces.

with regard to everything else, current events and north korea, you are completely fu-kin ignorant.

btw, which military base did your mom work at? tongduchon or osan? Where did your dad fu-k her? And i'm sure your dad was like your mom's 109th customer. And i'm also quite sure that your dad was a lowly stupid american redneck fu-k who had nothing better to do than serve in the army at a foreign base and fu-k prostitutes to give birth to bastard children like you.

ignorance, arrogance, and stubbornness: the hallmark of the stupid fu-kin american people. i'm done arguing with you

and jasel, fu-k you too.

why the hell do even remotely give any thought to who Brian's mom married or why? even if you stretch your generalizations to their limits there is still zero connection between his mom and dad and his assertions. you're so friggin pro north korea i would LOVE to see you pack up your bull$hit and move to your socialist paradise. all the armchair ranting in the world wouldn't help you out then. but hey, I heard the gulogs are pretty nice this time of year. by the way you're a fu-king @$$hole.