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台灣民族
2005/8/10
By Jane Rickards The China Post


QUOTE
Premier Frank Hsieh recently announced his great grandmother was one of the island's indigenous people.
Now he's saying nearly everyone in Taiwan is in his situation: that is, eight in ten Taiwanese have an indigenous relative or ancestor.

The premier, decked out in a gray and white weave sleeveless jacket from the Yami Tribe, joined indigenous groups yesterday to celebrate the 11th anniversary of constitutional reforms protecting indigenous rights.

The theme of the celebrations sponsored by indigenous law maker Chen Hsiu-hui, was: "We are all aboriginal people".

The theme was derived from recent scientific research claiming DNA studies of Taiwan's people revealed around 88 percent of the population has aboriginal blood.

This research was mainly conducted by Chen Shun-sheng of the Kaohsiung Hospital's psychiatric department.

Chen Shun-sheng's medical research found that Taiwan's Hoklo-speaking and Hakka-speaking groups who lived in Taiwan before the arrival of the mainland immigrants with the Kuomintang genetically were not purely Han Chinese.

"Studies of Taiwan's history, language, culture and customs confirm the majority of residents in Taiwan's regions have blood relationships with its aborigines," he wrote in a paper.

"...They have the cultural status of Han Chinese with the Austronesian love of the sea and the Austronesian fearless spirit of exploring and settling in new places," he wrote.

Chen Shun-sheng argues as Ching Dynasty regulations prohibited early settlers taking their families with them, Chinese migrants to Taiwan around 400 years ago intermarried with indigenous peoples.

Taiwan's legal system currently recognizes 11 major indigenous tribes. Hsieh, whose great-grandmother hailed from the Pingpu Tribe, an aboriginal group which is not yet legally recognized, urged the public to try to understand different cultures.

He said in the past society discriminated against indigenous peoples.

"But now you shouldn't say: 'you are aboriginal, I am not,'"Hsieh said. "Everyone is aboriginal."

"We should coexist and cooperate," he said.

The premier announced that he had taken an aboriginal name from the Tsou tribe of scenic Mt Ali -- "Voyu", meaning strong.

He also met with indigenous representatives sitting around a round table -- a traditional aboriginal practice symbolizing equality between its members.

Hsieh chatted with a young boy in fifth grade from Nanchuang region in Miaoli county. A member of the Atayal group, the boy was the only indigenous child in the nation to share the premier's Chinese name "Hsieh Chang-ting."

Organizers cited the work of Australian National University academic Peter Bellwood, who theorizes that Austronesian-speaking peoples across the Asia-Pacific region originated from Taiwan.

They also cited New Zealand academic Geoffrey Chambers who argues that the Maori and other Polynesian peoples "island-hopped" from Taiwan to the islands of East Polynesia and New Zealand via the Philippines and Indonesia.

These academic arguments add weight to pro-independence politicians' calls to have Taiwan culturally separate from China as they also stress Tauiwan's cultural ties to south Pacific nations.

"Strictly speaking, the blood ties of today's Taiwan people long ago were already different from the Han tribes originating from the Yellow River valley," a statement from law maker Chen Hsiu-hui's office said.

"Taiwan's 23 million people share a common fate... we are all one family," Chen Hsiu-hui said.

The anniversary marked a day eleven years ago when Taiwan's constitution was amended to remove discriminatory wording describing indigenous people such as "barbarian" or "mountain people" , replacing it with the word "aborigine".


台灣民族
MING-LOYALIST
Well we are all connected somehow.
Half of my relatives are half Mongol or full Mongol yet I'm Han chinese.
taiwan_honbura
Polynesians are in Hawaii too right? I always noticed some Taiwanese people don't look very Han chinese.
PandaBear
y are u one of them
taiwan_honbura
QUOTE (PandaBear @ Aug 20 2005, 04:32 PM)
y are u one of them
*


What would it matter to you?
chilli21
QUOTE (taiwan_honbura @ Aug 21 2005, 02:45 PM)
QUOTE (PandaBear @ Aug 20 2005, 04:32 PM)
y are u one of them
*


What would it matter to you?
*



he's just asking.
taiwan_honbura
QUOTE (chilli21 @ Aug 21 2005, 01:18 AM)
QUOTE (taiwan_honbura @ Aug 21 2005, 02:45 PM)
QUOTE (PandaBear @ Aug 20 2005, 04:32 PM)
y are u one of them
*


What would it matter to you?
*



he's just asking.
*



And I'm asking him back...
PandaBear
just wondering
blob
Is that so? For some reason, 88% seems a bit much, all the Taiwanese people i've met look like any other Chinese. I've always thought that those with Aborignal blood were just the minority...
jareth_chong
The US has indigenous roots too, but the US is not indigenous any more.

It is the same thing with Taiwan.
台灣民族
QUOTE (taiwan_honbura @ Aug 21 2005, 03:03 AM)
QUOTE (chilli21 @ Aug 21 2005, 01:18 AM)
QUOTE (taiwan_honbura @ Aug 21 2005, 02:45 PM)
QUOTE (PandaBear @ Aug 20 2005, 04:32 PM)
y are u one of them
*


What would it matter to you?
*



he's just asking.
*



And I'm asking him back...
*



taiwan honbura, what are you? seriously.


QUOTE
Is that so? For some reason, 88% seems a bit much, all the Taiwanese people i've met look like any other Chinese. I've always thought that those with Aborignal blood were just the minority...


the 88% figure refers to all Taiwanese with aboriginal ancestors, even if its only one great grandmother way back in the family tree. besides, many totally aboriginal people on Taiwan dont look terribly different from other asians. here is a picture of aboriginal soldiers:


PervertBurger
Are indigenous Taiwanese girls hot
PandaBear
Taiwanese (including Hakka) 84%, mainland Chinese 14%, aborigine 2%
RentonWong
Hakkas and normal Taiwanese done deny being Chinese
blob
QUOTE (PandaBear @ Aug 23 2005, 12:46 PM)
Taiwanese (including Hakka) 84%, mainland Chinese 14%, aborigine 2%
*


So the 88% figure of Aboriginal roots is incorrect? I'm confused now...
qrasy
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Aug 23 2005, 12:32 PM)
Hakkas and normal Taiwanese done deny being Chinese
*

I think they only deny being PRC person, I don't think they deny Hua Ren/Han Ren.

QUOTE (blob @ Aug 23 2005, 03:26 PM)
QUOTE (PandaBear @ Aug 23 2005, 12:46 PM)
Taiwanese (including Hakka) 84%, mainland Chinese 14%, aborigine 2%
*


So the 88% figure of Aboriginal roots is incorrect? I'm confused now...
*


Its said that 88% of those 84% also has Aborigine ancestry.
product_ako
2% of Taiwan is aboriginal. 98% of Taiwan has mainland roots.

Aboriginal are segregated from the normal population. There is a stigma against marrying aboriginals on Taiwan.

The only way to have aboriginal blood is to be a product of rape from centuries ago. When the Hakka and Hoklo first came from mainland China, they enacted laws to prevent marriage with aboriginal and started driving them into the mountains.
taiwan_honbura
QUOTE (product_ako @ Aug 23 2005, 02:09 PM)
2% of Taiwan is aboriginal.  98% of Taiwan has mainland roots.

Aboriginal are segregated from the normal population.  There is a stigma against marrying aboriginals on Taiwan.

The only way to have aboriginal blood is to be a product of rape from centuries ago.  When the Hakka and Hoklo first came from mainland China, they enacted laws to prevent marriage with aboriginal and started driving them into the mountains.
*


Actually the hakkas and hoklos intermarriaged with aboriginal tribes, and basically converted to chinese traditions. This is why the aboriginals were never exterminated , instead most of them were absorbed into what is now present taiwanese.
RentonWong
Sure then all White Americans in the US are Native Americans.
taiwan_honbura
^^ Read your history dumb fu-k.

Today's dominant Hoklo and Hakka groups are quite different from their counterparts in Southern China because of intermarriage with the aboriginal inhabitants since the 17th century.
Suijen
^ Don't flame.
RentonWong
QUOTE (taiwan_honbura @ Aug 23 2005, 02:45 PM)
^^ Read your history dumb fu-k.

Today's dominant Hoklo and Hakka groups are quite different from their counterparts in Southern China because of intermarriage with the aboriginal inhabitants since the 17th century.
*


Today's dominant White Americans are quite different from their counterparts in Europe because of intermarriage with the aboriginal inhabitants since the 17th century. embarassedlaugh.gif2 embarassedlaugh.gif2

So White people are Native Americans...that's news to me...if being less than 1/16 Native American makes White people Natives, then I am an Aryan! embarassedlaugh.gif2 embarassedlaugh.gif2
台灣民族
QUOTE (taiwan_honbura @ Aug 23 2005, 03:45 PM)
^^ Read your history dumb fu-k.

Today's dominant Hoklo and Hakka groups are quite different from their counterparts in Southern China because of intermarriage with the aboriginal inhabitants since the 17th century.
*


that is correct.

QUOTE
they enacted laws to prevent marriage with aboriginal and started driving them into the mountains.


ive read more about Taiwan that most people care to, and i have never read/heard about these laws. can you provide proof?
RentonWong
English-language only history websites dont really cut it as "everything".
taiwan_honbura
QUOTE (Suijen @ Aug 23 2005, 03:21 PM)
^ Don't flame.
*


I didn't mean to flame renton , but seriously that guy is being really ignorant.
blob
So then Taiwanese people aren't as East Asian in roots as we think? Taiwanese and Polynesian...hmm...they sure don't look it to me...
product_ako
QUOTE (taiwan_honbura @ Aug 23 2005, 02:45 PM)
^^ Read your history dumb fu-k.

Today's dominant Hoklo and Hakka groups are quite different from their counterparts in Southern China because of intermarriage with the aboriginal inhabitants since the 17th century.
*

That's a joke, with laws preventing intermarriage, you claim they did intermarriage. They got raped. The Hoklo and Hakka are just like their mainland counterparts. Just like the Hoklo and Hakka in the USA are just like the ones on the mainland and Taiwan. Why else would we call them Hoklo and Hakka.
qrasy
QUOTE (product_ako @ Aug 25 2005, 12:29 AM)
That's a joke, with laws preventing intermarriage, you claim they did intermarriage.  They got raped.  The Hoklo and Hakka are just like their mainland counterparts.  Just like the Hoklo and Hakka in the USA are just like the ones on the mainland and Taiwan.  Why else would we call them Hoklo and Hakka.
*

It's said that Hakka usually don't want to mix with other people.
About Rape: Usually the child would follow the mother not father. I'm not sure if you meant Taiwanese Aborigines raped Chinese immigrants. If Chinese immigrants raped Taiwanese Aborigines, then it would be Taiwanese Aborigine have Chinese genes in them.
Some genes may mutate quite quickly to fit climate and diseases, there are probability of unrelated people to develop same allels.
wRiter Reverie
The real aborigines must be crying.

Why is the pan-Green so disrespectful to them?
RentonWong
Because they didn't enjoy Japanese rule and many of them tended to vote Blue
Tsunga
Lol, thats the Taiwanese's loss then!
(addressing original topic)
neonflux
might i add that i support pangea reunification?
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