[I totally believe that we foremost and primary owed our loyalty and love to the land we live in! I brought up both of my children with that attitude, vowed that I will not repeat the mistakes I experienced in Indonesia.]

23 years ago, we said goodbye to Vancouver and moved to a little town outside of Vancouver.
Not too long later, we had our firstborn: a girl!

6 years later, she came back from her 1st day of school crying: Daddy, daddy, how come I am not white? Am I Canadian? Who am I?

The town was predominantly white and she was the only non-white in that school.

At the age of 6, my little girl was experiencing human natural groupie behavior! She was forced to search her own identity in this foreign social group at the very early age!

She had a very serious decision to make: of either learn to fit in and happily get accepted or isolate herself from the rest of the class, forever self-pitying and hating everybody!

As a young father at the time, I really do not know how to help her or to coach her ................................................................................
.......................... to be continue.

what's the difference btw Indonesian Chinese and Chinese Indonesian?

Indonesians that lived in China, are they Chinese Indonesian or Indonesian Chinese?
Are these Indonesians’ foremost and primary loyalties and loves belong to China, the land they lived or belong to their ancestor-land: Indonesia?

In my humble opinion, the better use of words is:
The people lived in Indonesia consist of:
Indonesian Javanese, Indonesian Sundanese, Indonesian Balinese, Indonesian Chinese, and so on.

Hopefully, by the help of word power, people will emphasize more on their common denominator rather than their distinct differences. It just might help that particular people group lived more harmoniously, by knowing clearly
to whom their foremost and primary loyalties and loves belong!

Technically speaking when using the right English grammar ....

Chinese Indonesian is an Indonesian citizen who is ethnically Chinese. In other words, a Chinese by blood who becomes an Indonesian citizen.

So all the Chinese in Indonesia are Chinese Indonesian, not Indonesian Chinese

Indonesian Chinese is the other way around, a Chinese citizen but ethnically an Indonesian by blood.

I totally understand and agree with you!

Please consider my point:
The land is a fix reality, however blood is very often a debatable uncertainty.

At this juncture of our time, we need a new break-through in our thinking. Wouldn't you agree with me on this?

My dream is one day the majority people group of Indonesia is just Indonesian !

China is a huge country, however China has relatively less racial tensions.
Most Chinese claimed that they are ethnically Hans;
Strictly speaking, are they really?
Nobody really cares, as long as it serves the homogeneous purpose and peace at the end of the day!

Another wild dream of mine is both Indonesia and China will one day become two of the real giants in the world again,
if and only if they do things right!
One day there will be more people claim to be Indonesian or Chinese, or at lease close relatives!
They properly are the Japanese, Taiwanese, Koreans, Malaysian or even the Australians! Who knows?!

However, if they would not change for the better but keep causing sorrows to the nations, their own people will discard and abandon them!

Over here in Canada, our dream and goal is: Multicuture.
True respects to all people! Canadian will be no more just white but of all colors!

Canada is no paradise; there were alots of unfairness and they are still out there.
We Canadians are working hard at it. We know very well that there are no free lunches, all family members need to take part at it! Knock the wood, so far we are winning!

We know very well that we either face it now or we will pay an unnecessary bigger price in the future!
As long as we lived, there will be always unfairness and racial problems anywhere, including our own backyards!

Claiming that Indonesian are the most racist people on earth is utterly nonsense!

well, i haven't heard of any indonesians living in china but i know there're thousands of them in HK.

HK is part of China.

I purposely change Chinese Indonesian to Indonesian Chinese only to convey my point of view:
For the Chinese who really want to make Tanah Air Indonesia as their home, they need to make Indonesia 1st and China 2nd or 3rd in their hearts.

An 8th generation Indonesian residence, my wife still take herself as a Chinese and not an Indonesian. To make thing worse, at the time I was living there, most Chinese do not associate with the locals; they look down at the Indonesian natives!

Riot of Jakarta in 1998 should be a wake up call and not an antidote!

All oversea Chinese should take a good look at ourselves!

Are we going to love our new land so that our children can have a home or we are just going to keep milking the new land dry and so that our children have no home but keep running from persecution!

The decision is in our own hands!

Maybe we can take a closer look at the American Jewish people?

So.................

Indonesians are not racist, huh?





On the contrary,

I have many proofs that indonesian are racist

Do you wanna some?

^i guess the answer is pretty obvious.

[Indonesians are not racist, huh?]
I do not recall I ever say that.

assimilation is fu-king ridiculous.

Why?

有屁请放， 没屁请让！
translation may be
ni siang jiang semo?(totok)
or
what is the matter mite?(Aussie) 2

^what the hell? i was referring to what BANGSA TIONGHOA1 was saying.

have u been to HK? anyway, my post wasn't about chinese-indonesians or the other way around.

I was born in HK. HK and Singapore are like bus stops for my travels in Asia.



So sorry.

Woohoohooo, it's neither fair nor even true. Who started to ban all "chinese" stuff?? And what do the natives do to chinese descendants?

that banning was done to prevent spread of communism and has been revoked years ago.. update urself pls.. and by living in indonesia, ethnic-chinese mostly became prosperous, with many intermarrying with natives..

I didn't say the banning is still going on, but only mentioning how chinese behaves towards native doesn't seem to be fair to me or even true.

racial harmony cannot be a one-way effort, both sides must make the effort to achieve understanding and harmony. it took two hands to clap..

BANGSA TIONGHOA1,
I understand your anger and pain, belief me, I do!
I grew up in Indonesia. I had a full doze of it just like most Chinese Indonesian did in my time.
Any human with the right emotions will react the way you do. I did!
I never say Indonesians are not racist. What I said was :


BANGSA TIONGHOA1,
You can get mad and you can get angry, but please do not let these emotions get the better of you, because if you do:
1. It will blur your thinking and you will not be able to express yourselves clearly.
2. What is the use of continuing blaming the Indonesian? For us the most sensible thing is to find out the best solution of this problem.

I had a chance reading the memoir of Mr. Lee Kuan Yew. I have to tell you I am most impress by this man. If Singaporeans can do it there is no reason the Chinese in Indonesia cannot overcome the difficulties!

Singaporeans are just Singaporeans!
I really look forward to see that one day Chinese Indonesians are just Indonesian!

If anybody dares to tell them to go home, they will be able to rebuke back:
This is my home! Just like we are doing in Canada right now!

And the Indonesians will protect each other because they are all just Indonesians, no more Chinese or Chinese Indonesians!

BANGSA TIONGHOA1,

Love to continue chatting with you. You might be upset but you are real and honest. I rather chat with you anyday compared to the polite fakes!

ps, I am not encouraging us to speak xxx, or else Mr. B will ...................

it's ok.

anyway, why did u move to indonesia from vancouver? do u have any pure indon friends? have u been to Hk over the past few years?

just curious: no offence but do those natives marry the ethnic-chinese for love or for money?

Oh pleeze...., not all Indonesian natives are poor.
And not all Indonesian Chinese are loaded with lotta money too.

Me personally..., just kinda in to oriental chicks.

^thanks for the answer. r u a native indon?

Yes I'm native Indonesian, but mixed ethnics one.
I'm mixed blood of Sundanese and Javanese.
However my Cirebon ancestry from my father's side are Chinese-Cirebonese, since most of my family from Cirebon bears too many Chinese physical treats. (narrow eyes, fair yellow skin).
My Japanese teacher actually at first tought me as mixed Japanese-Indonesian. And my friend says that I look like an adult version of Crayon Shinchan... 2

First Chinese settler from early 15th century are came with Ming dynasty admiral Cheng Ho (Zheng He), most of them are Chinese Muslims. I heard even Cheng Ho are Muslim too from Hui ethnic. Early Chinese are intermarried with natives Indonesian. So there is no problem in assimilation between Chinese and natives in this early years. I think several of my Cirebon ancestor are indeed Chinese. Chinese influence in culture can be trace in Java northern coastal cities such as Jakarta, Cirebon, Semarang, and Surabaya.

Btw..., could you stop calling us Indonesian as Indon.
Just full name Indonesian will be fine, or if you wanna make it short, WNI (warga negara Indonesia), or simply Indo will be fine.

Indon sounds stupid and really degradating. Just like calling Black people Nigga. And most of Indonesian doesn't like it. (Even Indonesian embassy in Kuala Lumpur sends protest notes to Malaysian press, demand them to stop using Indon word)

You mean from Indonesia to Vancouver?

[LaoShare is kind of Lao and he comes to Share. (And learn.)
LaoShare was once young too!
I was born in HK, at 5 my family immigrated to Indonesia.
In Indonesia I experienced racial unfairness and I became a violent angry young man and turned patriot crazy, because spiritually I need a country that I can call my own!

I was a bad dude! Almost 6 ft and over 200lbs. of all muscle killing mechine!
However I could not touch the Indonesian, (people from Indonesia know what I meant)
So I would do the Indonesian at night and others in the daytime except my own!
At 17 my dad had enough of me and sent me to Australia to "study"! (Exile! )
What a mistake! Australians are crazy! Fighting is like a sport to them!
I got beat up pretty badly. So I start my nomadic life, drifting all over in Asia and the US.

No country really wants me, (Peoples were practically swimming out of China to HK at the time!) until one day I came to Canada. ]

That was one of my old posting.

I did have some native Indonesian friends back in Jakarta; my soccer buddies.
I travel extensively. Most of our relatives are still in China and HK.

^u got beat up in australia? what part of australia is it? i know australians love beer and AFL ( which involves lots of fighting ) but i haven't heard of a foreigner getting beat up before but that's in melbourne.

was it one of those discrimination rule that chinese are not allowed to touch indonesians but how did it work?

maybe thats the case in australia back in late 1960s, when mr laoshare was there.. BTW do u still hv relatives in indonesia, mr laoshare?

with all those chinese influences back then, sometimes it's hard to imagines there would be racial discrimination in indonesia. anyway, it was all about getting rid of communism.




ok

Cheng Ho was born in 1371 in Yunnan province.
A Chinese Muslim, his ancestors came from Central Asia and intermarried
with the Han Chinese.

There's temples dedicated for Cheng Ho in Semarang and Palembang..

I do.

I was in Ketumba, Blue Mountain and Sydney.

I was not implying Aussie pick on foreigners. As the matter of fact, I found Australian are very friendly people.
At the time I was there, street fighting was very common. Just go to any of the open bars, if you waited long enough, most likely you would see people got thrown out and start fist fighting! The most amazing part was after they got tired, they would help each other, got up and went back in the pub like two good friends! (Maybe they were.)

Australian loves their beers; best excuse was "have a cool one" in a bloody hot summer day, however in a freezing winter nite, they still drink the same darn thing with or without more excuses!

They like to say bloody this, bloody that, how are you mite? Fadingcum! (For sure!)

However, all that was in the later part of the 60s, I wonder how is it today? Can any body fill me in?

Hi

I am from Singapore, and I am of Chinese descent. I happened to see this thread while surfing the Internet. Let me just tell you my experiences in Jakarta.

I was in Jakarta in November last year on a business trip, and also to attend a Chinese-Indonesian friend's sister's wedding. It was my first trip to Jakarta. I have been to Bali previously, and it was a very nice and friendly place.

I got into a Silver Bird taxi at the airport to send me to my hotel. The taxi driver was native Indonesian, and was very friendly and could speak English. I had a nice conversation with him. So I was thinking: Hey this place is ok. Except for the street scenes, which are full of native Indonesians selling food by the street, and generally the poor poeple living in the slums, which are almost everywhere in Jakarta.

At the hotel, I checked into my room at the counter. The lady at the hotel reception was also native Indonesian, and she was very nice and polite as well.

After that, I met some friends also from Singapore, and went to Plaza Indonesia for coffee. Along the way in the taxi, I began to feel more and more disturbed by the number of poor native Indonesians on the streets and in the slums. To tell you the truth, I felt very sorry for them.

At the Plaza Indonesia, I realized the difference. Outside the shopping centre was all the poor native Indonesians. Inside, was all the rich Chinese shopping and buying the branded clothes and jewellery and stuff. The security guards, though, were native Indonesian. The cleaners and workers were also native Indonesian.

That night, I went to my Chinese-Indonesian friend's sister's wedding in the Grand Hyatt. Again, I saw the contrast. The hotel guests and people who attended the wedding were local Chinese and some white foreigners. The guys who opened the doors, the waiters, the workers, they were native Indonesian. As usual, this was a posh Chinese-Indonesian wedding, and they definitely spent a lot of money on the wedding, as the food was high-quality and the decor was posh. The wedding's guests are also rich Chinese-Indonesians, some of whom I knew from my school days in the US.

The next few nights, I was brought to some of Jakarta's best nightclubs and pubs. The people spending money like crazy in those places were Chinese-Indonesians and whites. The native Indonesians? Well, they are all workers there. Some of the native Indonesians were also customers, but they just sat around smoking cigarettes and watching people. My friends told me some of them are drug dealers or pimps.

At the end of my trip, I fully understood why the native Indonesians hate the Chinese-Indonesians so much.

If you are a poor native Indonesian, looking in from the outside at all these rich Chinese-Indonesian spending their money and living a life of luxury, you would hate the Chinese too. Do you know how great the contrast is between the Chinese-Indonesian lifestyle vs. the native Indonesian lifestyle? Let's just say: the amount of money the Chinese spend on a single restaurant meal can easily feed a family of 4 native Indonesians for a month!

In conclusion, looking at how some Chinese-Indonesians flaunt their wealth in front of the poor native Indonesians, I fully understand the hatred of the native Indonesians.

That's not all. In fact I know how the Chinese-Indonesians became so rich. A lot of them made their money by exploiting the native Indonesians, making use of them at low cost, taking their land at low cost. Just look at those wealthy Chinese who literally RAPED Kalimantan of natural resources, making use of the natives as cheap labour. In fact, I have relatives who are Chinese-Indonesians. Their business is dealing in motorcycles to native Indonesians. But when their native Indonesian customers cannot pay the installment for the motorcycles, they take the motorcycle back, refurbish it a little, and sell it to the native Indonesians again at full price. I think that is a sin.

ps:- one night, while travelling back to the hotel in a taxi with my friends, we were stopped by a native Indonesian police man. The police man threatened to arrest us because we didn't have our original passports with us, only photocopies. But he said if we gave him a large sum of money, he'll let us go. In the end, we gave the police man some money on the spot. My friend, who works for an American MNC in Indonesia, bargained the price down. That was my only bad experience with native Indonesians.

deleted. wrong thread.

Indon is not degradating, most people in Asia call Indonesian as Indon, It is actually to differentitae between Indonesian nationality of other race and native Indonesian. So Indon just short term for native Indonesian. When you said Indonesian it could be white, chinese, Indian or arabic descent Indonesian but Indon for sure you are native Indonesian.

I consider myself as Indon. meanwhile we could use also Indo but there are overlapping claim using Indo word, India for example sometimes refer themself as Indo too. And mix Indo + Dutch who were born in Indonesia refer themself as Indo too.

So Indon is just fine.

As much as I respect you, this kind of thinking is just too narrow for me.
I cannot believe people with that kind of mentality would even accept other "indons" except their own.

So what you suggest to call Indonesian for short term?

Less hates more love; less rejection more inclusive; then you can call Indonesian xyz people still happy.

Exclusive mentality always needs a scapegoat or two. Today is Chinese, tomorrow is Batak people? Who are going to trust people with such mind set?

Duh, we are talking about how to call native Indonesian for short term since Majapahitans reject the Idea to be called indon instead he prefer to be call Indo.
There are no discussion about scapegoat in this topic unless the lanatic paranoid will think. If you do not have something to say better just watch.

OK, I will just watch and I will watch very closely.

Yeah you chinese better just watch

that's rude

Thank you furansizuka.

semarang rulezzzz

easy dude...

Chinese are all the same.
If a war happens in their adopted country, I am sure they will run away and find a safe place. That's for sure.And everyone knows that.They would never fight for their adopted country.

I am an ethnic-Chinese, dorky!