TAIWAN:

"Research into the Origins of Austronesian Cultures

The Austronesian race consists of the peoples who speak what linguists call the Austronesian language group, which is the most different languages. The scope of this language family reaches from Easter Island off the western coast of South America in the east to Madagascar island off the eastern coast of Africa in the west, and from Taiwan in the north to New Zealand in the south, it encompasses a large number of islands in the Pacific and Indian oceans- and all belong to the same language family.

According to the research that numerous linguists have carried out over a long period of time, the Austronesian languages of Taiwan's aborigines contain many ancient linguistic elements and retain historic Austronesian pronunciations; a total of more than 20 sounds have been found in the island's aborigine languages that cannot be found in languages anywhere else on earth. Taiwan also has the densest grouping of Arstronesian languages, and the greatest number of different Austronesian languages, of any place on earth. In addition to the existing Atayal, Saisiat, Bunung, Zou, Rukai, Paiwan, Amis, Yami, Puyuma, and Sao tribes, these also included the languages of Pingpu tribes that have been assimilated into the Han Chinese residents and thus become extinct. In all, 19 different Taiwanese aborigine tribes spoke Austronesian languages; this proves the preeminent position of Taiwan's aborigines in the history of the development of the Austronesian peoples- and even the possibility that this island is the origin of the Austronesian race. For this reason, Taiwan is seen as the possible ancient home of the Austronesian peoples.

Over the past 4,000 years the Austronesian peoples of Taiwan have been subject to all kinds of external cultures and political control, and have developed a diversified cultural coloring; the western plains aborigines have been most completely assimilated into the Han Chinese culture, while the aborigines living along the east coast and in the mountains have preserved their Austronesian culture to a greater extent. In terms of lifestyles the Austronesian peoples are most skilled at marine navigation and fishing; but in Taiwan today, with the exception of the Yami and the Amis, most of the island's aborigines have given up fishing and taken to farming on the fertile western plains or have moved into the deep mountains to live with practically no relationship to the sea."

http://202.39.225.133/e2001fes/taitung/E12_02.html



"Taiwan`s geographical position also determines its historical relations with the surrounding countries. Before the 17th century, Taiwan was initially inhabited by nine ethnic groups of Malay-Polynesian origin. While some claim that Chinese population on Taiwan may trace back to the third century (230 A. D., the Period of Three Kingdom), a recent study indicates that a reliable Chinese account on Taiwan appeared only in 1349. From the 16th century on, the Han people began arriving in the western part of Taiwan from the coastal area of southern China. They were fishermen, priates, criminals, or tax evaders. So were Japanese priates (Vertente, et al., 1991, 49) Most of them made no efforts to settle permanently, and the Ming government of the time never extended its rule on Taiwan (Vertente, et al., 1991, 34; See Figure 2A). Thus, when the Dutch from the Dutch East India Company in Batavia of Indonesia occupied and settled in the southern part of Taiwan (see Figure 3) in 1624 as the base of entrepot trade with Japan (Su, 1980, 57) and monopolizing its trade with China (Vertente, et al, 1991, 69), the Ming government did not protest nor interfere."

The Pekan Aboriginese are lingustically linked to the Philippine Ivatan people of the Batanes islands.. & ANTHROPOLOGICALLY LINKED TO THE MANOBO TRIBES OF MINDANAO, PHILIPPINES

www.colorado.edu/Economics/mcguire/workingpapers/Taiwan-GlobalEconomy.pdf

MORE LUZON THAN HAINAN: TAIWAN BEFORE QING RULE:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/cira/paper/Wills.pdf

THE TRIBES OF TAIWAN:

http://www.sinica.edu.tw/tit/culture/0795_...esOfTaiwan.html





HAINAN:
"Hainan, province, southeastern China, island in the South China Sea, south of Leizhou Bandao Peninsula. Hainan Strait, about 24 km (about 15 mi) wide, separates the peninsula from the island, which adjoins the Gulf of Tonkin on the east. Between its northern and southern extremities, Hainan has a length of about 257 km (about 160 mi) and an extreme width of about 145 km (about 90 mi). The southern half is traversed by a series of mountain chains, the highest of which has a maximum elevation of about 1829 m (about 6000 ft). The region has numerous extinct volcanoes, but many of the slopes and valleys are covered with dense tropical vegetation. The northern portion of the island, except for occasional mountainous outcroppings, consists of level plains. Hainan contains rich mineral deposits, including gold, tin, iron ore, lead, and silver, but the economy is predominantly agrarian. Among the leading crops are rice, rubber, coconuts, sugar, betel nuts, and pineapples. Large numbers of hogs, cattle, and ducks are raised.

People of Chinese origin constitute about two-thirds of the population of Hainan. Several aboriginal tribes, locally designated the Maiu and Lois, inhabit the more remote areas of the mountainous region. The Maiu tribes originated on the Chinese mainland; the Lois show marked physical similarities to the Igorot tribe of the Philippines and speak the same language."

http://www.hotels-china.com/hotel/china/Hainan/hainan.htm

"Li: aboriginal people of Hainan Island, off the southern coast of China. They live in the mountainous southern portion of the island and share with the Miao people the Hai-nan Li-Miao Autonomous Prefecture. Their many dialects are related to Tai and Malayo-Polynesian (or Austronesian). The Li number about 980,000."

"Native to the mountains of Hainan Island, the Li long had a history of rebellion against Chinese authority. In 1943 they rose against the Nationalist occupiers and were joined by local Communist guerillas and later by the Chinese Read army in the first large-scale collaboration of a minority during the civil war."

http://www.globaled.org/curriculum/china/ethnic.htm

I think the Cham from vietnam who migrated to Hainan and became the (Cam Utsul ?) came long after the Li. This is what i gather after reading this:

HAINAN: Home to the Austronesian Cam Ustat:

"ChicoTsat, an Austronesian language of Hainan, is one of the clearest examples in the literature of a language restructuring under intense contact. Some two thousand years ago, traders speaking a Malayo-Chamic language set up trading posts on the coast of modern day Vietnam. Interaction and intermarriage with speakers of Bahnar [Mon-Khmer] led to the total restructuring of the language; under intense contact with Bahnar, it became Chamic, a language that differed strikingly from its Malayo-Chamic ancestor in phonology, morphology, lexicon, and syntax (constructions). For roughly a thousand years, this newly restructured Chamic language—the language of the Champa Federation—existed as an only moderately differentiated dialect continuum along the coastline of southern Vietnam, with a small trading post onHainan Island. The next major restructuring occurred after the northern capital fell to the Vietnamese in 982. This event led the Northern Cham to split into two groups: the bulk of the merchant class (including many Muslims—Huihui, in Chinese) fled to Hainan becoming the Utsat (etymologically, u `people classifier` + Tsat, *cam ‘Cham’; note that, a thousand years ago, all Chamic speakers were more than likely called Chams),while the bulk of the non-merchant class fled to south and, in many cases, inland, becoming the Northern Roglai (etymologically, ra `people`+ glai `forest`). It is worth noting that the Northern Roglai are the Chamic group reputed to have the royal treasures from the northern capital. The arrival of the Northern Cham traders on Hainan—an event noted in the Chinese Dynastic records—led to another complete restructuring of the language, this time under the influence of the monosyllabic and tonal Hlai languages (Tai-Kadai), the monosyllabic and tonal Min dialects of Chinese, and, more recently, under the quite intense influence of Mandarin. [The final restructuring of Tsat phonology takes place after their arrival on Hainan and had come into more intense contact both with Hlai speakers and with Min speakers, that is, sometime after 982.]"

"The Restructuring of Tsat under Intense Contact” Graham Thurgood and Fengxiang "Frank" LiCalifornia State University."

http://www.csuchico.edu/~gt18/Papers/SEALS_XII.pdf

HERE IS A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE MALAY ETHNICITY IS. WE ARE NOT CONFINED TO ONE COUNTRY. WE ARE SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE ISLANDS AND PARTS OF THE CONTINENTS OF THE INDIAN AND PACIFIC OCEANS AS A RESULT OF OUR MALAY ANCESTOR'S ANCIENT SEA-FARING LIFESTYLES FROM THE ULTIMATE HOMELAND OF TAIWAN BEGINNING AROUND 6,000 YEARS AGO, BUT STILL TODAY WE HAVE PRESERVED OUR AUSTRONESIAN CULTURE AND LANGUAGE AND MALAY ETHNICTY, ALL OF WHICH HAVE MERELY BEEN INFLUECED BY FOREIGN CONTACT TO ANY GIVEN ISLAND IN THE PACIFIC OR INDIAN OCEANS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_people

FILIPINOS, INDONESIANS, MALAYSIANS, MADAGASCAR PEOPLES ARE ACTUALLY PART OF THE "MALAY ETHNICITY"

FILIPINO, INDONEISAN, MALAYSIAN, MADAGASCAR ARE MERELY NATIONAL IDENTITIES.

JUST LIKE THE CHINESE OF TAIWAN ARE ACTUALLY "HAN CHINESE ETHNICTY" BUT THEIR DESIRE IS TO KEEP THIS "TAIWANESE" NATIONAL IDENTITY.

THE MALAY ETHNICTY NEEDS TO SUPPORT THE MALAYS OF SUCH PLACES AS HAINAN AND TAIWAN WHO HAVE BECOME VICTIMS OF FOREIGN OVERPOPULATION, DISPLACEMENT, AND OPPRESSION IN THEIR OWN ANCESTRAL LANDS. TOGETHER WE CAN INSURE THE RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE, IF WE SUPPORT EACH OTHER AND STRENTHEN OUR VOICES. WE NEED TO LEARN ABOUT EACH OTHER'S HISTORIES BECAUSE THEIR HISTORIES ARE OUR HISTORIES. JUST MEREMBERS OF THE SAME FAMILY WHO HAVE MIGRATED AWAY FROM US. ET'S NOT FOREGET OUR BONDS!!

OTHER MALAYS IN THE WORLD WHO NEED HELP/VOICE/ACKNOWLEDGEMENT ARE:

1) CHAMS - VIETNAM

2) MERINA/BESTILEO - MADAGASCAR (AFRICAN ISLAND)

3) IGOROT/LUMAD - PHILIPPINES

http://www.igorotglobal.org

AND HERE ARE SOME MALAY RELATED PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE THE NATIVE AUSTRONESAIN CULTURE OF THE MALAY:


1) NAGAS OF NAGALAND - INDIA/MYANMAR

2) SOME HILLTRIBES - CAMBODIA

3) MOKENS OF MERGUI/PHUKET ISLANDS - MYANMAR/THAILAND

4) HAWAIIAN/& OTHER POLYNESIANS (malay+papuans) - SOUTH PACIFIC ISLANDERS

LASTLY, ONCE AGAIN LETS NOT FOREGET ABOUT THE MOST ESSENTIAL :

THE TAIWAN ABORIGINALS, WHO ARE THE ULTIMATE HOMELAND FOR ALL MALAY AND OUR BIRTHPLACE OF OUR NATIVE AUSTRONESIAN CULTURE AND LANGUAGE;

IF YOU DO NOTHING BUT CHOOSE TO READ ABOUT THESE TRIBES ABOVE, AT LEAST HELP THE TAIWAN ABORIGINALS WHO ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT IN PREVERING THE NATIVE AUSTRONESIAN CULTURE AND HERITAGE OF THE MALAY ETHNICITY.

HERE IS A GREAT WEBSITE TO EXPLORE THE HISTORY AND WAYS TO SUPPORT THE TAIWAN ABORIGINALS:

[b]http://www.atayal.org


http://www.taiwanfirstnations.org


Thankyou =)

Last Warning. Post multiple topics again or get another warning from me and you're ban from AF.

Hmm...honestly, I don't think ... Malay ever really OWNED Taiwan...

pre-Sinitic Taiwanese are Formosans NOT Malays... there's a difference.

malay_ako, even you point a gun to the Taiwan president, you wont get Taiwan back.

It's like saying Native American. No big deal, imo. The only other name they could go by is Aboriginal Taiwanese Languages.

hehe! ganyan talaga! The West classifies most stuff....

why? just askin....

No, i was askin Emperor about why he doesn't believe that.

So what's the point of saying that Taiwanese aboriginies are biologically related to the Malays? They are obviously different people and developed different cultures and speak different languages. There was never a united Austronesian nation...

no unified Austronesian nation YES, but once ONE language.

read this
http://www.gaginang.org/history.asp

Well, it's already been generally agreed that Proto-Austronesian <culture> originated in the modern Southern Chinese region, from the Yangtze to Taiwan...

Yes, Kulong, one language. We ALL came from something.... even the Chinese came from a Proto-Sino-Tibetan source.... No exceptions.

---------------------
And dalawapo reminds:
--->about the 2003 Festival of Austronesian Cultures in Taitung, Taiwan http://www.iov.org.tw/english/event_2002/event200212.htm & that history is in the making. there may have not been an offical "Malay Nation" but there is an inate sense of Malayo-Polynesian brotherhood & concept of Family & Extended-Family which is re-emerging and is not bound by land.
--->one does not need to feel ashamed about the growing knowledge that this island of taiwan was not originally China's because these taiwan aboriginals will surely play an integral role with tourism and the sort as i have recently seen several taiwanese tourist commerials portraying the aboriginals in such ways.


tsin tho sia!
maraming salamat po!
:peace:

Hi guys, by dalawapo's request, I am going to post his comment for him here. And why is he banned?

ey bhunter, tuloy tuloy tayo magsalita ah.... walang period.... medyo nakakahilo.... just sayin. peace

onga...... where?

The truth is i have proofs of existence of Yangtze Valley Culture

where?

but anywho, i don't think anybody here made any ill objections on the "Yangtze Valley culture" in the first place... why bring it up?

Actually this is my theory since mtdna Haploroup B(B4 variant)may originally came from this culture and there were many pottery found in yangtze valley

i looked up at google about austronesian and found this

[/QUOTE] The Austronesian Family
This family includes some 1000 different languages, spoken by about 250 million speakers. Malay and Indonesian (essentially the same language) account for about 140 million. Other examples include Malagasy in Africa, Tagalog in the Philippines, the aboriginal languages of Formosa (Taiwan) -- now almost displaced by Chinese -- and the many languages of the Pacific Islands, from Hawaiian in the north Pacific to Maori in New Zealand.
[QUOTE]

http://www.ship.edu/~psych/languagefamilies.html

when there is a similarity of language, does it necesaraly can come to similarity of cultures and people? could be

it also streches from madagaskar to new zealand!

there is a strong similarity in language and culture from madagascar to easter island!

What are you implying

http://cita.chattanooga.org/mtdna.html

Polynesian Links?

To their surprise, however, the researchers found that native Siberians lack one peculiar mutation that appeared in the Amerinds 6,000 to 10,000 years ago. This raises the question of where, if not from Siberia, this mtDNA originated.

It turns out, Dr. Wallace says, that this particular mutation pattern is also found in aboriginal populations in Southeast Asia and in the islands of Melanesia and Polynesia. This hints at what may have been "one of the most astounding migrations in human experience," he says. A group of ancient peoples moved out of China into Malaysia where they became sailors and populated the islands of the South Pacific.

Then some 6,000 to 12,000 years ago these ancient mariners made it to the Americas. "I don't know how they came," Dr. Wallace says. "They either came across the Pacific to Central and South America or they went up the east coast of Asia and across the northern Pacific to Alaska and Canada," he says. He already is examining mtDNA samples from natives of the Kamchatka Peninsula north of Japan to see if there is any mtDNA trace of these ancient sailors.

i posted these pics below in another thread as well,

I believe the reason for the spread of Malay peoples across the Indo-Pacific was due to the ice-age floods that have occured the last couple thousand years, in fact you can see the flooded lands of indo-malay region here below. At the last ice age ended, much of the sunda shelf fell victim to flood and likely cause its inhabitants to fleed on boat or escape to higher ground. This is why you see malay peoples from Easter Island to Madagascar.



http://fumbalaya.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=42

http://fumbalaya.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=43

http://fumbalaya.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=44

http://fumbalaya.com/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=46


Chinese folk, DONT GET DEFENSIVE, the malays dont want to take back Taiwan

Hi, folks. I'm a new forumer here.
I'd just like to say a bit on this Austronesians thingy.
I'd define Austronesian as equivalent to Malay.
Malay is the Sanskrit term for Austronesian, even though Malay means "hill tribes" and Austronesian means "people of the southern lands".
I use the term "Malay" because it is well-known to Malaysians, and it is the root word of my country, Malaysia.
Austronesians and Chinese, and a third Yellow people called the Tibetans, emerged from the Tibetan highlands, where the mighty Yangzi and Huang rivers originated.
I'd define Austronesians as the Yellow people of Indochina (sans the Myanmars who speak Tibetan languages), of the Malay Peninsula and Archipelago (including Taiwan), of the Pacific (sans the Black Melanesians) and finally, of the Americas.
True, the peoples of Indochina speak Indochinese languages (Thai, Laotian, Vietnamese and Cambodian). Those of the Americas speak American.
But they all share the same physical features, and are thus of the same Malay/Austronesian stock.
As for the Japanese and Koreans, they are of Chinese, Malay (Austronesian) and Mongolian intermixture. Mongolians are derived from Aryans (Turkic Aryans of Russia) and Tibetans.

mongolians arent aryan, and there isnt a such race as aryans.. that was just a falsehood spread by german propagandists in the late 1800 and early 1900s. mongolians are of mongoloid stock, thus the term for all peoples south and east of mongolia as mongoloid.

Where did you get this.

I was wondering the same. the last time i checked the term austronesian, meaning southern islands, was a recent fragment of mind to classify and group a people that might have had similar ancestry.

in fact Malay nationalism wasn't until recently by the age of imperialism and it's decline ie Jose P Rizal's writings before the fall of the Spanish. before that malays and austronesian tend to associate themselves through tribal and linguistic and sometimes political identity.

No Mongolians are Mongoliad. Huns are Aryan

Mongoliad ? Who created that term?

Kermit Frog, mtDNA B has its highest diversity in China (which in genetics means that's likely the origin), though probably not the highest % is in China but in places like Samoa. It is a East Eurasian ("Mongoloid") lineage. It is not from "Austronesia" nor did Native Americans get it from there.


Don't worry, a lot of Malays don't even fall near that term, except such people such as some Bataks but they are aborigines and not Indo-Aryan Malays.

Here's a definition that this stupid word (I agree) from U. Utah's osteology department for starters, which is all you need to know that you are not it. Rejoice, oh Indo-Aryan.
http://medstat.med.utah.edu/kw/osteo/foren.../mongoloid.html

I don't see the word "Mongoliad" in that link. So mongoloid = mongoliad ?

This country was all along a land for Orang Asli. The Chinese originated from China, Indians originated from India, malays originated from Indonesia etc. China get to give priority to the Chinese, India get to give priority to the Indians, and the malays are just freeloading from the Orang Asli land by claming it is bumi land.

This is because they are doing what Allah said……….Allah told malays to come from Indonesia and steal the land from Orang Asli and use Orang Asli as slaves. So when is Malaysia giving priority to Orang Asli?

The only time Malaysia is not a racist country is when an Orang Asli becomes the prime minister of Malaysia - which is never - it is a genocide in the name of Allah!