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The Japanese Roots
Jared Diamond

Source: Discover, June 1998 Vol. 19


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Just who are the Japanese? Where did they come from and when? The answer are difficult to come by, though not impossible--the real problem is that the Japanese themselves may not want to know.

UNEARTHING THE ORIGINS OF THE JAPANESE IS A MUCH HARDER TASK THAN YOU MIGHT GUESS. AMONG WORLD POWERS TODAY, THE JAPANESE ARE THE MOST DISTINCTIVE IN THEIR CULTURE AND ENVIRONMENT. THE ORIGINS OF THEIR LANGUAGE ARE one of the most disputed questions of linguistics. These questions are central to the self-image of the Japanese and to how they are viewed by other peoples. Japan's rising dominance and touchy relations with its neighbors make it more important than ever to strip away myths and find answers. 

The search for answers is difficult because the evidence is so conflicting. On the one hand, the Japanese people are biologically undistinctive, being very similar in appearance and genes to other East Asians, especially to Koreans. As the Japanese like to stress, they are culturally and biologically rather homogeneous, with the exception of a distinctive people called the Ainu on Japan's northernmost island of Hokkaido. Taken together, these facts seem to suggest that the Japanese reached Japan only recently from the Asian mainland, too recently to have evolved differences from their mainland cousins, and displaced the Ainu, who represent the original inhabitants. But if that were true, you might expect the Japanese language to show close affinities to some mainland language, just as English is obviously closely related to other Germanic languages (because Anglo-Saxons from the continent conquered England as recently as the sixth century A.D.). How can we resolve this contradiction between Japan's presumably ancient language and the evidence for recent origins? 

Archeologists have proposed four conflicting theories. Most popular in Japan is the view that the Japanese gradually evolved from ancient Ice Age people who occupied Japan long before 20,000 B.c. Also widespread in Japan is a theory that the Japanese descended from horse-riding Asian nomads who passed through Korea to conquer Japan in the fourth century, but who were themselves--emphatically--not Koreans. A theory favored by many Western archeologists and Koreans, and unpopular in some circles in Japan, is that the Japanese are descendants of immigrants from Korea who arrived with rice-paddy agriculture around 400 B.C. Finally, the fourth theory holds that the peoples named in the other three theories could have mixed to form the modern Japanese. 

When similar questions of origins arise about other peoples, they can be discussed dispassionately. That is not so for the Japanese. Until 1946, Japanese schools taught a myth of history based on the earliest recorded Japanese chronicles, which were written in the eighth century. They describe how the sun goddess Amaterasu, born from the left eye of the creator god Izanagi, sent her grandson Ninigi to Earth on the Japanese island of Kyushu to wed an earthly deity. Ninigi's great-grandson Jimmu, aided by a dazzling sacred bird that rendered his enemies helpless, became the first emperor of Japan in 660 B.c. To fill the gap between 660 B.c. and the earliest historically documented Japanese monarchs, the chronicles invented 13 other equally fictitious emperors. Before the end of World War II, when Emperor Hirohito finally announced that he was not of divine descent, Japanese archeologists and historians had to make their interpretations conform to this chronicle account. Unlike American archeologists, who acknowledge that ancient sites in the United States were left by peoples (Native Americans) unrelated to most modern Americans, Japanese archeologists believe all archeological deposits in Japan, no matter how old, were left by ancestors of the modern Japanese. Hence archeology in Japan is supported by astronomical budgets, employs up to 50,000 field-workers each year, and draws public attention to a degree inconceivable anywhere else in the world. 

Why do they care so much? Unlike most other non-European countries, Japan preserved its independence and culture while emerging from isolation to create an industrialized society in the late nineteenth century. It was a remarkable achievement. Now the Japanese people are understandably concerned about maintaining their traditions in the face of massive Western cultural influences. They want to believe that their distinctive language and culture required uniquely complex developmental processes. To acknowledge a relationship of the Japanese language to any other language seems to constitute a surrender of cultural identity. 

What makes it especially difficult to discuss Japanese archeology dispassionately is that Japanese interpretations of the past affect present behavior. Who among East Asian peoples brought culture to whom? Who has historical claims to whose land? These are not just academic questions. For instance, there is much archeological evidence that people and material objects passed between Japan and Korea in the period A.D. 300 to 700. Japanese interpret this to mean that Japan conquered Korea and brought Korean slaves and artisans to Japan; Koreans believe instead that Korea conquered Japan and that the founders of the Japanese imperial family were Korean. 

Thus, when Japan sent troops to Korea and annexed it in 1910, Japanese military leaders celebrated the annexation as "the restoration of the legitimate arrangement of antiquity." For the next 35 years, Japanese occupation forces tried to eradicate Korean culture and to replace the Korean language with Japanese in schools. The effort was a consequence of a centuries-old attitude of disdain. "Nose tombs" in Japan still contain 20,000 noses severed from Koreans and brought home as trophies of a sixteenth-century Japanese invasion. Not surprisingly, many Koreans loathe the Japanese, and their loathing is returned with contempt. 

What really was "the legitimate arrangement of antiquity"? Today, Japan and Korea are both economic powerhouses, facing each other across the Korea Strait and viewing each other through colored lenses of false myths and past atrocities. It bodes ill for the future of East Asia if these two great peoples cannot find common ground. To do so, they will need a correct understanding of who the Japanese people really are. 

JAPAN UNIQUE CULTURE BEGAN WITH ITS UNIQUE GEOGRAPHY and environment. It is, for comparison, far more isolated than Britain, which lies only 22 miles from the French coast. Japan lies 110 miles from the closest point of the Asian mainland (South Korea), 190 miles from mainland Russia, and 480 miles from mainland China. Climate, too, sets Japan apart. Its rainfall, up to 120 inches a year, makes it the wettest temperate country in the world. Unlike the winter rains prevailing over much of Europe, Japan's rains are concentrated in the summer growing season, giving it the highest plant productivity of any nation in the temperate zones. While 80 percent of Japan's land consists of mountains unsuitable for agriculture and only 14 percent is farmland, an average square mile of that farmland is so fertile that it supports eight times as many people as does an average square mile of British farmland. Japan's high rainfall also ensures a quickly regenerated forest after logging. Despite thousands of years of dense human occupation, Japan still offers visitors a first impression of greenness because 70 percent of its land is still covered by forest. 

Japanese forest composition varies with latitude and altitude: evergreen leafy forest in the south at low altitude, deciduous leafy forest in central Japan, and coniferous forest in the north and high up. For prehistoric humans, the deciduous leafy forest was the most productive, providing abundant edible nuts such as walnuts, chestnuts, horse chestnuts, acorns, and beechnuts. Japanese waters are also outstandingly productive. The lakes, rivers, and surrounding seas teem with salmon, trout, tuna, sardines, mackerel, herring, and cod. Today, Japan is the largest consumer of fish in the world. Japanese waters are also rich in clams, oysters, and other shellfish, crabs, shrimp, crayfish, and edible seaweeds. That high productivity was a key to Japan's prehistory. 

From southwest to northeast, the four main Japanese islands are Kyushu, Shikoku, Honshu, and Hokkaido. Until the late nineteenth century, Hokkaido and northern Honshu were inhabited mainly by the Ainu, who lived as hunter-gatherers with limited agriculture, while the people we know today as Japanese occupied the rest of the main islands. 

In appearance, of course, the Japanese are very similar to other East Asians. As for the Ainu, however, their distinctive appearance has prompted more to be written about their origins and relationships than about any other single people on Earth. Partly because Ainu men have luxuriant beards and the most profuse body hair of any people, they are often classified as Caucasoids (so-called white people) who somehow migrated east through Eurasia to Japan. In their overall genetic makeup, though, the Ainu are related to other East Asians, including the Japanese and Koreans. The distinctive appearance and hunter-gatherer lifestyle of the Ainu, and the undistinctive appearance and the intensive agricultural lifestyle of the Japanese, are frequently taken to suggest the straightforward interpretation that the Ainu are descended from Japan's original hunter-gatherer inhabitants and the Japanese are more recent invaders from the Asian mainland. 

But this view is difficult to reconcile with the distinctiveness of the Japanese language. Everyone agrees that Japanese does not bear a close relation to any other language in the world. Most scholars consider it to be an isolated member of Asia's Altaic language family, which consists of Turkic, Mongolian, and Tungusic languages. Korean is also often considered to be an isolated member of this family, and within the family Japanese and Korean may be more closely related to each other than to other Altaic languages. However, the similarities between Japanese and Korean are confined to general grammatical features and about 15 percent of their basic vocabularies, rather than the detailed shared features of grammar and vocabulary that link, say, French to Spanish; they are more different from each other than Russian is from English. 

Since languages change over time, the more similar two languages are, the more recently they must have diverged. By counting common words and features, linguists can estimate how long ago languages diverged, and such estimates suggest that Japanese and Korean parted company at least 4,000 years ago. As for the Ainu language, its origins are thoroughly in doubt; it may not have any special relationship to Japanese. 

After genes and language, a third type of evidence about Japanese origins comes from ancient portraits. The earliest preserved likenesses of Japan's inhabitants are statues called haniwa, erected outside tombs around 1,500 years ago. Those statues unmistakably depict East Asians. They do not resemble the heavily bearded Ainu. If the Japanese did replace the Ainu in Japan south of Hokkaido, that replacement must have occurred before A.D. 500. 

Our earliest written information about Japan comes from Chinese chronicles, because China developed literacy long before Korea or Japan. In early Chinese accounts of various peoples referred to as "Eastern Barbarians," Japan is described under the name Wa, whose inhabitants were said to be divided into more than a hundred quarreling states. Only a few Korean or Japanese inscriptions before A.D. 700 have been preserved, but extensive chronicles were written in 712 and 720 in Japan and later in Korea. Those reveal massive transmission of culture to Japan from Korea itself, and from China via Korea. The chronicles are also full of accounts of Koreans in Japan and of Japanese in Korea--interpreted by Japanese or Korean historians, respectively, as evidence of Japanese conquest of Korea or the reverse. 

The ancestors of the Japanese, then, seem to have reached Japan before they had writing. Their biology suggests a recent arrival, but their language suggests arrival long ago. To resolve this paradox, we must now turn to archeology. The seas that surround much of Japan and coastal East Asia are shallow enough to have been dry land during the ice ages, when much of the ocean water was locked up in glaciers and sea level lay at about 500 feet below its present measurement. Land bridges connected Japan's main islands to one another, to the Russian mainland, and to South Korea. The mammals walking out to Japan included not only the ancestors of modem Japan's bears and monkeys but also ancient humans, long before boats had been invented. Stone tools indicate human arrival as early as half a million years ago. 

Around 13,000 years ago, as glaciers melted rapidly all over the world, conditions in Japan changed spectacularly for the better, as far as humans were concerned. Temperature, rainfall, and humidity all increased, raising plant productivity to present high levels. Deciduous leafy forests full of nut trees, which had been confined to southern Japan during the ice ages, expanded northward at the expense of coniferous forest, thereby replacing a forest type that had been rather sterile for humans with a much more productive one. The rise in sea level severed the land bridges, converted Japan from a piece of the Asian continent to a big archipelago, turned what had been a plain into rich shallow seas, and created thousands of miles of productive new coastline with innumerable islands, bays, tidal flats, and estuaries, all teeming with seafood. 

That end of the Ice Age was accompanied by the first of the two most decisive changes in Japanese history: the invention of pottery. In the usual experience of archeologists, inventions flow from mainlands to islands, and small peripheral societies aren't supposed to contribute revolutionary advances to the rest of the world. It therefore astonished archeologists to discover that the world's oldest known pottery was made in Japan 12,700 years ago. For the first time in human experience, people had watertight containers readily available in any desired shape. With their new ability to boil or steam food, they gained access to abundant resources that had previously been difficult to use: leafy vegetables, which would burn or dry out if cooked on an open fire; shellfish, which could now be opened easily; and toxic foods like acorns, which could now have their toxins boiled out. Soft-boiled foods could be fed to small children, permitting earlier weaning and more closely spaced babies. Toothless old people, the repositories of information in a preliterate society, could now be fed and live longer. All those momentous consequences of pottery triggered a population explosion, causing Japan's population to climb from an estimated few thousand to a quarter of a million. 

The prejudice that islanders are supposed to learn from superior continentals wasn't the sole reason that record-breaking Japanese pottery caused such a shock. In addition, those first Japanese potters were clearly hunter-gatherers, which also violated established views. Usually only sedentary societies own pottery: what nomad wants to carry heavy, fragile pots, as well as weapons and the baby, whenever time comes to shift camp? Most sedentary societies elsewhere in the world arose only with the adoption of agriculture. But the Japanese environment is so productive that people could settle down and make pottery while still living by hunting and gathering. Pottery helped those Japanese hunter-gatherers exploit their environment's rich food resources more than 10,000 years before intensive agriculture reached Japan. 

Much ancient Japanese pottery was decorated by rolling or pressing a cord on soft clay. Because the Japanese word for cord marking is jomon, the term Jomon is applied to the pottery itself, to the ancient Japanese people who made it, and to that whole period in Japanese prehistory beginning with the invention of pottery and ending only 10,000 years later. The earliest jomon pottery, of 12,700 years ago, comes from Kyushu, the southernmost Japanese island. Thereafter, pottery spread north, teaching the vicinity of modern Tokyo around 9,500 years ago and the northern--most island of Hokkaido by 7,000 years ago. Pottery's northward spread followed that of deciduous forest rich in nuts, suggesting that the climate-related food explosion was what permitted sedentary living. 

How did Jomon people make their living? We have abundant evidence from the garbage they left behind at hundreds of thousands of excavated archeological sites all over Japan. They apparently enjoyed a well-balanced diet, one that modern nutritionists would applaud. 

One major food category was nuts, especially chestnuts and walnuts, plus horse chest nuts and acorns leached or boiled free of their bitter poisons. Nuts could be harvested autumn in prodigious quantities, then stored for the winter in underground pits up to six feet deep and six feet wide. Other plant foods berries, fruits, seeds, leaves, shoots, bulbs, and roots. In all, archeologists sifting through Jomon garbage have identified 64 species of edible plants. 

Then as now, Japan's inhabitants were among the world's leading consumers of seafood. They harpooned tuna in the open ocean, killed seals on the beaches, and exploited seasonal runs of salmon in die rivers. They drove dolphins into shallow water and clubbed or speared them, just as Japanese hunters do today. They netted diverse fish, captured them in weirs, and caught them on fishhooks carved from deer antlers. They gathered shellfish, crabs, and seaweed in the intertidal zone or dove for them. (Jomon skeletons show a high incidence of abnormal bone growth in the ears, often observed in divers today.) Among land animals hunted, wild boar and deer were the most common prey. They were caught in pit traps, shot with bows and arrows, and run down with dogs. 

The most debated question about Jomon subsistence concerns the possible contribution of agriculture. Many Jomon sites contain remains of edible plants that are native to Japan as wild species but also grown as crops today, including the adzuki bean and green gram bean. The remains from Jomon times do not clearly show features distinguishing the crops from their wild ancestors, so we do not know whether these plants were gathered in the wild or grown intentionally. Sites also have debris of edible or useful plant species not native to Japan, such as hemp, which must have been introduced from the Asian mainland. Around 1000 B.C., toward the end of the Jomon period, a few grains of rice, barley, and millet, the staple cereals of East Asia, began to appear. All these tantalizing clues make it likely that Jomon people were starting to practice some slash-and-burn agriculture, but evidently in a casual way that made only a minor contribution to their diet. 

Archeologists studying Jomon hunter-gatherers have found not only hard-to-carry pottery (including pieces up to three feet tall) but also heavy stone tools, remains of substantial houses that show signs of repair, big village sites of 50 or more dwellings, and cemeteries--all further evidence that the Jomon people were sedentary rather than nomadic. Their stay-at-home lifestyle was made possible by the diversity of resource-rich habitats available within a short distance of one central site: inland forests, rivers, seashores, bays, and open oceans. Jomon people lived at some of the highest population densities ever estimated for hunter-gatherers, especially in central and northern Japan, with their nut-rich forests, salmon runs, and productive seas. The estimate of the total population of Jomon Japan at its peak is 250,000--trivial, of course, compared with today, but impressive for hunter-gatherers. 

With all this stress on what Jomon people did have, we need to be clear as well about what they didn't have. Their lives were very different from those of contemporary societies only a few hundred miles away in mainland China and Korea. Jomon people had no intensive agriculture. Apart from dogs (and perhaps pigs), they had no domestic animals. They had no metal tools, no writing, no weaving, and little social stratification into chiefs and commoners. Regional variation in pottery styles suggests little progress toward political centralization and unification. 

Despite its distinctiveness even in East Asia at that time, Jomon Japan was not completely isolated. Pottery, obsidian, and fishhooks testify to some Jomon trade with Korea, Russia, and Okinawa--as does the arrival of Asian mainland crops. Compared with later eras, though, that limited trade with the outside world had little influence on Jomon society. Jomon Japan was a miniature conservative universe that changed surprisingly little over 10,000 years. 

To place Jomon Japan in a contemporary perspective, let us remind ourselves of what human societies were like on the Asian mainland in 400 B.C., just as the Jomon lifestyle was about to come to an end. China consisted of kingdoms with rich elites and poor commoners; the people lived in walled towns, and the country was on the verge of political unification and would soon become the world's largest empire. Beginning around 6500 B.C., China had developed intensive agriculture based on millet in the north and rice in the south; it had domestic pigs, chickens, and water buffalo. The Chinese had had writing for at least 900 years, metal tools for at least 1,500 years, and had just invented the world's first cast iron. Those developments were also spreading to Korea, which itself had had agriculture for several thousand years (including rice since at least 2 100 B.C.) and metal since 1000 B.C. 

With all these developments going on for thousands of years just across the Korea Strait from Japan, it might seem astonishing that in 400 B.C. Japan was still occupied by people who had some trade with Korea but remained preliterate stone-tool-using hunter-gatherers. Throughout human history, centralized states with metal weapons and armies supported by dense agricultural populations have consistently swept away sparser populations of hunter-gatherers. How did Jomon Japan survive so long? 

To understand the answer to this paradox, we have to remember that until 400 B.C., the Korea Strait separated not rich farmers from poor hunter-gatherers, but poor farmers from rich hunter-gatherers. China itself and Jomon Japan were probably not in direct contact. Instead Japan's trade contacts, such as they were, involved Korea. But rice had been domesticated in warm southern China and spread only slowly northward to much cooler Korea, because it took a long time to develop cold-resistant strains of rice. Early rice agriculture in Korea used dry-field methods rather than irrigated paddies and was not particularly productive. Hence early Korean agriculture could not compete with Jomon hunting and gathering. Jomon people themselves would have seen no advantage in adopting Korean agriculture, insofar as they were aware of its existence, and poor Korean farmers had no advantages that would let them force their way into Japan. As we shall see, the advantages finally reversed suddenly and dramatically. 

More than 10,000 years after the invention of pottery and the subsequent Jomon population explosion, a second decisive event in Japanese history triggered a second population explosion. Around 400 B.C., a new lifestyle arrived from South Korea. This second transition poses in acute form our question about who the Japanese are. Does the transition mark the replacement of Jomon people with immigrants from Korea, ancestral to the modern Japanese? Or did Japan's original Jomon inhabitants continue to occupy Japan while learning valuable new tricks? 

The new mode of living appeared first on the north coast of Japan's southwestern most island, Kyushu, just across the Korea Strait from South Korea. There we find Japan's first metal tools, of iron, and Japan's first undisputed full-scale agriculture. That agriculture-came in the form of irrigated rice fields, complete with canals, dams, banks, paddies, and rice residues revealed by archeological excavations. Archeologists term the new way of living Yayoi, after a district of Tokyo where in 1884 its characteristic pottery was first recognized. Unlike Jomon pottery, Yayoi pottery was very similar to contemporary South Korean pottery in shape. Many other elements of the new Yayoi culture were unmistakably Korean and previously foreign to Japan, including bronze objects, weaving, glass beads, and styles of tools and houses. 

While rice was the most important crop, Yayoi farmers introduced 27 new to Japan, as well as unquestionably domesticated pigs. They may have practiced double cropping, with paddies irrigated for rice production in the summer, then drained for dry-land cultivation of millet, barley, and wheat in the winter. Inevitably, this highly productive system of intensive agriculture triggered an immediate population explosion in Kyushu, where archeologists have identified far more Yayoi sites than Jomon sites, even though the Jomon period lasted 14 times longer. 

In virtually no time, Yayoi farming jumped from Kyushu to the adjacent main islands of Shikoku and Honshu, reaching the Tokyo area within 200 years, and the cold northern tip of Honshu (1,000 miles from the first Yayoi settlements on Kyushu) in another century. After briefly occupying northern Honshu, Yayoi farmers abandoned that area, presumably because rice farming could not compete with the Jomon hunter-gatherer life. For the next 2,000 years, northern Honshu remained a frontier zone, beyond which the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido and its Ainu hunter-gatherers were not even considered part of the Japanese state until their annexation in the nineteenth century. 

It took several centuries for Yayoi Japan to show the first signs of social stratification, as reflected especially in cemeteries. After about 100 B.C., separate parts of cemeteries were set aside, for the graves of what was evidently an emerging elite class, marked by luxury goods imported from China, such as beautiful jade objects and bronze mirrors. As the Yayoi population explosion continued, and as all the best swamps or irrigable plains suitable for wet rice agriculture began to fill up, the archeological evidence suggests that war became more and more frequent: that evidence includes mass production of arrowheads, defensive moats surrounding villages, and buried skeletons pierced by projectile points. These hallmarks of war in Yayoi Japan corroborate the earliest accounts of Japan in Chinese chronicles, which describe the land of Wa and its hundred little political units fighting one another. 

In the period from A.D. 300 to 700, both archeological excavations and frustratingly ambiguous accounts in later chronicles let us glimpse dimly the emergence of a politically unified Japan. Before A.D. 300, elite tombs were small and exhibited a regional diversity of styles. Beginning around A.D. 300, increasingly enormous earth-mound tombs called kofun, in the shape of keyholes, were constructed throughout the former Yayoi area from Kyushu to North Honshu. Kofun are up to 1,500 feet long and more than 100 feet high, making them possibly the largest earth-mound tombs in the world. The prodigious amount of labor required to build them and the uniformity of their style across Japan imply powerful rulers who commanded a huge, politically unified labor force. Those kofun that have been excavated contain lavish burial goods, but excavation of the largest ones is still forbidden because they are believed to contain the ancestors of the Japanese imperial line. The visible evidence of political centralization that the kofun provide reinforces the accounts of kofun-era Japanese emperors written down much later in Japanese and Korean chronicles. Massive Korean influences on Japan during the kofun era--whether through the Korean conquest of Japan (the Korean view) or the Japanese conquest of Korea (the Japanese view)--were responsible for transmitting Buddhism, writing, horseback riding, and new ceramic and metallurgical techniques to Japan from the Asian mainland. 

Finally, with the completion of Japan's first chronicle in A.D. 712, Japan emerged into the full light of history. As of 712, the people inhabiting Japan were at last unquestionably Japanese, and their language (termed Old Japanese) was unquestionably ancestral to modem Japanese. Emperor Akihito, who reigns today, is the eighty-second direct descendant of the emperor under whom that first chronicle of A.D. 712 was written. He is traditionally considered the 125th direct descendant of the legendary first emperor, Jimmu, the great-great-great-grandson of the sun goddess Amaterasu. 

JAPANESE CULTURE UNDERWENT FAR MORE RADICAL CHANGE in the 700 years of the Yayoi era than in the ten millennia of Jomon times. The contrast between Jomon stability (or conservatism) and radical Yayoi change is the most striking feature of Japanese history. Obviously, something momentous happened at 400 B.C. What was it? Were the ancestors of the modem Japanese the Jomon people, the Yayoi people, or a combination? Japan's population increased by an astonishing factor of 70 during Yayoi times: What caused that change? A passionate debate has raged around three alternative hypotheses. 

One theory is that Jomon hunter-gatherers themselves gradually evolved into the modern Japanese. Because they had already been living a settled existence in villages for thousands of years, they may have been preadapted to accepting agriculture. At the Yayoi transition, perhaps nothing more happened than that jomon society received cold-resistant rice seeds and information about paddy irrigation from Korea, enabling it to produce more food and increase its numbers. This theory appeals to many modem Japanese because it minimizes the unwelcome contribution of Korean genes to the Japanese gene pool while portraying the Japanese people as uniquely Japanese for at least the past 12,000 years. 

A second theory, unappealing to those Japanese who prefer the first theory, argues instead that the Yayoi transition represents a massive influx of immigrants from Korea, carrying Korean farming practices, culture, and genes. Kyushu would have seemed a paradise to Korean rice farmers, because it is warmer and swampier than Korea and hence a better place to grow rice. According to one estimate, Yayoi Japan received several million immigrants from Korea, utterly overwhelming the genetic contribution of Jomon people (thought to have numbered around 75,000 just before the Yayoi transition). If so, modern Japanese are descendants of Korean immigrants who developed a modified culture of their own over the last 2,000 years. 

The last theory accepts the evidence for immigration from Korea but denies that it was massive. Instead, highly productive agriculture may have enabled a modest number of immigrant rice farmers to reproduce much faster than Jomon hunter-gatherers and eventually to outnumber them. Like the second theory, this theory considers modem Japanese to be slightly modified Koreans but dispenses with the need for large-scale immigration. 

By comparison with similar transitions elsewhere in the world, the second or third theory seems to me more plausible than the first theory. Y, Over the last 12,000 years, agriculture arose at not more than nine places on Earth, including China and the Fertile Crescent. Twelve thousand years ago, everybody alive was a hunter-gatherer; now almost all of us are farmers or fed by farmers. Farming spread from those few sites of origin mainly because farmers outbred hunters, developed more potent technology, and then killed the hunters or drove them off lands suitable for agriculture. In modern times European farmers thereby replaced native Californian hunters, aboriginal Australians, and the San people of South Africa. Farmers who used stone tools similarly replaced hunters prehistorically throughout Europe, Southeast Asia, and Indonesia. Korean farmers of 400 B.C. would have enjoyed a much larger advantage over Jomon hunters because the Koreans already possessed iron tools and a highly developed form of intensive agriculture. 

Which of the three theories is correct for Japan? The only direct way to answer this question is to compare Jomon and Yayoi skeletons and genes with those of modem Japanese and Ainu. Measurements have now been made of many skeletons. In addition, within the last three years molecular geneticists have begun to extract DNA from ancient human skeletons and compare the genes of Japan's ancient and modern populations. Jomon and Yayoi skeletons, researchers find, are on the average readily distinguishable. Jomon people tended to be shorter, with relatively longer forearms and lower legs, more wide-set eyes, shorter and wider faces, and much more pronounced facial topography, with strikingly raised browridges, noses, and nose bridges. Yayoi people averaged an inch or two taller, with close-set eyes, high and narrow faces, and flat browridges and noses. Some skeletons of the Yayoi period were still Jomon-like in appearance, but that is to be expected by almost any theory of the Jomon-Yayoi transition. By the time of the kofun period, all Japanese skeletons except those of the Ainu form a homogeneous group, resembling modern Japanese and Koreans. 

In all these respects, Jomon skulls differ from those of modern Japanese and are most similar to those of modern Ainu, while Yayoi skulls most resemble those of modern Japanese. Similarly, geneticists attempting to calculate the relative contributions of Korean-like Yayoi genes and Ainu-like Jomon genes to the modem Japanese gene pool have concluded that the Yayoi contribution was generally dominant. Thus, immigrants from Korea really did make a big contribution to the modern Japanese, though we cannot yet say whether that was because of massive immigration or else modest immigration amplified by a high rate of population increase. Genetic studies of the past three years have also at last resolved the controversy about the origins of the Ainu: they are the descendants of Japan's ancient Jomon inhabitants, mixed with Korean genes of Yayoi colonists and of the modern Japanese. 

Given the overwhelming advantage that rice agriculture gave Korean farmers, one has to wonder why the farmers achieved victory over Jomon hunters so suddenly, after making little headway in Japan for thousands of years. What finally tipped the balance and triggered the Yayoi transition was probably a combination of four developments: the farmers began raising rice in irrigated fields instead of in less productive dry fields; they developed rice strains that would grow well in a cool climate; their population expanded in Korea, putting pressure on Koreans to emigrate; and they invented iron tools that allowed them to mass-produce the wooden shovels, hoes, and other tools needed for rice-paddy agriculture. That iron and intensive farming reached Japan simultaneously is unlikely to have been a coincidence. 

WE HAVE SEEN THAT THE COMBINED EVIDENCE OF ARCHEOLOGY, physical anthropology, and genetics supports the transparent interpretation for how the distinctive-looking Ainu and the undistinctive-looking Japanese came to share Japan: the Ainu are descended from Japan's original inhabitants and the Japanese are descended from more recent arrivals. But that view leaves the problem of language unexplained. If the Japanese really are recent arrivals from Korea, you might expect the Japanese and Korean languages to be very similar. More generally, if the Japanese people arose recently from some mixture, on the island of Kyushu, of original Ainu-like Jomon inhabitants with Yayoi invaders from Korea, the Japanese language might show close affinities to both the Korean and Ainu languages. Instead, Japanese and Ainu have no demonstrable relationship, and the relationship between Japanese and Korean is distant. How could this be so if the mixing occurred a mere 2,400 years ago? I suggest the following resolution of this paradox: the languages of Kyushu's Jomon residents and Yayoi invaders were quite different from the modem Ainu and Korean languages, respectively. 

The Ainu language was spoken in recent times by the Ainu on the northern island of Hokkaido, so Hokkaido's Jomon inhabitants probably also spoke an Ainu-like language. The Jomon inhabitants of Kyushu, however, surely did not. From the southern tip of Kyushu to the northern tip of Hokkaido, the Japanese archipelago is nearly 1,500 miles long. In Jomon times it supported great regional diversity of subsistence techniques and of pottery styles and was never unified politically. During the 10,000 years of jomon occupation, Jomon people would have evolved correspondingly great linguistic diversity. In fact, many Japanese place-names on Hokkaido and northern Honshu include the Ainu words for river, nai or betsu, and for cape, shiri, but such Ainu-like names do not occur farther south in Japan. This suggests not only that Yayoi and Japanese pioneers adopted many Jomon place-names, just as white Americans did Native American names (think of Massachusetts and Mississippi), but also that Ainu was the Jomon language only of northernmost Japan. 

That is, the modern Ainu language of Hokkaido is not a model for the ancient Jomon language of Kyushu. By the same token, modern Korean may be a poor model for the ancient Yayoi language of Korean immigrants in 400 B.C. In the centuries before Korea became unified politically in A.D. 676, it consisted of three kingdoms. Modern Korean is derived from the language of the kingdom of Silla, the kingdom that emerged triumphant and unified Korea, but Silla was not the kingdom that had close contact with Japan in the preceding centuries. Early Korean chronicles tell us that the different kingdoms had different languages. While the languages of the kingdoms defeated by Silla are poorly known, the few preserved words of one of those kingdoms, Koguryo, are much more similar to the corresponding Old Japanese words than are the corresponding modem Korean words. Korean languages may have been even more diverse in 400 B.C., before political unification had reached the stage of three kingdoms. The Korean language that reached Japan in 400 B.C., and that evolved into modem Japanese, I suspect, was quite different from the Silla language that evolved into modern Korean. Hence we should not be surprised that modem Japanese and Korean people resemble each other far more in their appearance and genes than in their languages. 

History gives the Japanese and the Koreans ample grounds for mutual distrust and contempt, so any conclusion confirming their close relationship is likely to be unpopular among both peoples. Like Arabs and Jews, Koreans and Japanese are joined by blood yet locked in traditional enmity. But enmity is mutually destructive, in East Asia as in the Middle East. As reluctant as Japanese and Koreans are to admit it, they are like twin brothers who shared their formative years. The political future of East Asia depends in large part on their success in rediscovering those ancient bonds between them.
DetunedRadio
wow i read the whole thing.

ok, so japanese and koreans are related.

but as the article indicates, both of you peoples would have been a bunch of hunter/gatherers if it weren't for chinese civilization.

as the article indicates, while the japanese were running around after animals, chinese were already living in walled cities, had extensive agriculture, political unification, and everything that a civilization is supposed to have.

cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif cool30.gif
northwestern_student
gah...stop bringing China into everything!! You might as well go to India chat and tell those guys there that China was responsible for Indian civilization.


...and the mods say i invite the trolling.
Suijen
^ How's the humility up there DR?
DetunedRadio
QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Nov 3 2005, 10:32 PM)
gah...stop bringing China into everything!! You might as well go to India chat and tell those guys there that China was responsible for Indian civilization.


...and the mods say i invite the trolling.
*


read the article. it plainly suggests China was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of both korea and especially japan.
toki
QUOTE (DetunedRadio @ Nov 3 2005, 10:29 PM)
wow i read the whole thing.

ok, so japanese and koreans are related.

but as the article indicates, both of you peoples would have been a bunch of hunter/gatherers if it weren't for chinese civilization.

as the article indicates, while the japanese were running around after animals, chinese were already living in walled cities, had extensive agriculture, political unification, and everything that a civilization is supposed to have.

cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif
*

gee thanks for your contribution sure.gif
northwestern_student
QUOTE (DetunedRadio @ Nov 3 2005, 10:33 PM)
QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Nov 3 2005, 10:32 PM)
gah...stop bringing China into everything!! You might as well go to India chat and tell those guys there that China was responsible for Indian civilization.


...and the mods say i invite the trolling.
*


read the article. it plainly suggests China was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of both korea and especially japan.
*



yes i read the articles. just because some had come from china, doesn't they are chinese, especially 12,000 years ago (they could have merely passed through China, since it's so big), when these nationalities hadn't formed nor have arrived at their present location.
DetunedRadio
QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Nov 3 2005, 10:38 PM)
yes i read the articles. just because some had come from china, doesn't they are chinese, especially 12,000 years ago (they could have merely passed through China, since it's so big), when these nationalities hadn't formed nor have arrived at their present location.
*


the fu-k? I never said the Japanese were Chinese. Of course they're not chinese. DUH!!

What matters is who brought civilization to whom and its obvious China started it all. First, by transmitting it to Korea and then Korea to Japan.

and the ancient chinese ARE genetically related to modern chinese. We've had over 5000 years of uninterrupted civilization. We may be well mixed but the ancient chinese are still our direct ancestors genetically.
northwestern_student
if you didn't know, china 12,000 years ago was inhabited by negritos. they were later (5,000 years after) driven off to the fringes of asia by people who are the ancestors of modern chinese. thus the culture that was spread to japan from china was definately not chinese in meaning we know today.
DetunedRadio
QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Nov 3 2005, 10:44 PM)
if you didn't know, china 12,000 years ago was inhabited by negritos. they were later (5,000 years after) driven off to the fringes of asia by people who are the ancestors of modern chinese. thus the culture that was spread to japan from china was definately not chinese in meaning we know today.
*


of course. china has undergone many changes. chinese culture we know today is very different from japanese culture. but if you go back 300-400 years, chinese culture is very similiar to japanese culture of today.

and what culture did japan have before being influenced by korea? hunting and gathering and making pottery? thats not exactly "culture."

the real cultural transmission began with korea bringing the customs it modified from china.

its so plainly obvious that japan was heavily influenced by korean culture and korean culture by chinese culture.
CJK
there's no doubt that china was the most advanced country back then in asia. there's no point in repeating something that is quite obvious. there arent any koreans or japanese that have claimed that they were more advanced than china back then; that's just retarded. koreans and japanese tend to look more towards the future than live in whatever greatness they had achieved in the past.

always bringing up the greatness of the past or the good old days makes even people sound like losers.
DetunedRadio
QUOTE (CJK @ Nov 3 2005, 10:59 PM)
there's no doubt that china was the most advanced country back then in asia.  there's no point in repeating something that is quite obvious.  there arent any koreans or japanese that have claimed that they were more advanced than china back then; that's just retarded.  koreans and japanese tend to look more towards the future than live in whatever greatness they had achieved in the past. 

always bringing up the greatness of the past or the good old days makes even people sound like losers.
*


chinese don't look to the past either. most chines dont even care about their own history. we're the least traditional of the 3. we're more concerned about modernization and joining the developed world.

and yes, koreans and japanese do dispute

many japanese feel that they were the ones who influenced china.

and many koreans believe they developed civilization along with china concurrently.
kyosak
Good job China. Good job.
DetunedRadio
QUOTE (kyosak @ Nov 3 2005, 11:42 PM)
Good job China. Good job.
*


are u korean or japanese?
northwestern_student
why does it matter
blob
QUOTE (DetunedRadio @ Nov 4 2005, 02:29 PM)
wow i read the whole thing.

ok, so japanese and koreans are related.

but as the article indicates, both of you peoples would have been a bunch of hunter/gatherers if it weren't for chinese civilization.

as the article indicates, while the japanese were running around after animals, chinese were already living in walled cities, had extensive agriculture, political unification, and everything that a civilization is supposed to have.

cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif
*


You make them sound primitive eek.gif
DetunedRadio
QUOTE (blob @ Nov 3 2005, 11:47 PM)
QUOTE (DetunedRadio @ Nov 4 2005, 02:29 PM)
wow i read the whole thing.

ok, so japanese and koreans are related.

but as the article indicates, both of you peoples would have been a bunch of hunter/gatherers if it weren't for chinese civilization.

as the article indicates, while the japanese were running around after animals, chinese were already living in walled cities, had extensive agriculture, political unification, and everything that a civilization is supposed to have.

cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif
*


You make them sound primitive eek.gif
*



they were. cool30.gif
BahDukeplayer
QUOTE (DetunedRadio @ Nov 3 2005, 05:29 PM)
wow i read the whole thing.

ok, so japanese and koreans are related.

but as the article indicates, both of you peoples would have been a bunch of hunter/gatherers if it weren't for chinese civilization.

as the article indicates, while the japanese were running around after animals, chinese were already living in walled cities, had extensive agriculture, political unification, and everything that a civilization is supposed to have.

cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif  cool30.gif
*


Gosh...I find it quite irritating when listening to Chinese people say that all of Asian's culture came from China.

It's all about "Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese...etc"...are descendants of China.

I mean come on...Japanese are mix of Mongoloids and Polynesian Jomon people. Some Japanese are mixed with Ainu...hence giving some Japanese people a pseudo-caucasian look.

I'd say Koreans are descendants of the Mongols and also tribes from Central Asia like Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.
Ton_Yu_Kuk
Only Japanese, Korean, Turkish and Mongolian belong to same language family and they have same Grammer and smillar pronounce types.
DetunedRadio
QUOTE (BahDukeplayer @ Nov 4 2005, 03:05 AM)
Gosh...I find it quite irritating when listening to Chinese people say that all of Asian's culture came from China.

It's all about "Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese...etc"...are descendants of China.

I mean come on...Japanese are mix of Mongoloids and Polynesian Jomon people.  Some Japanese are mixed with Ainu...hence giving some Japanese people a pseudo-caucasian look.

I'd say Koreans are descendants of the Mongols and also tribes from Central Asia like Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.
*


holy $hit how many times do i have to repeat this? I never said koreans and japanese ARE chinese people. I said it was china who brought CIVILIZATION to these countries.

key word is civilization. please differentiate civilization from things like language and genetics.

are the people in this forum illiterate or what? why is it so easy for people to put words in my mouth?
northwestern_student
what's the difference, china has influenced many other countries besides japan and korean, and japan and korea has been influenced by more than just china.
chilli21
whatever, this is about the genetics of the japanese people, which has nothing to do with china, so stop bringing china into everything.

back to the topic: whether japanese came from koreans or mongolians or whatever, japanese is one race now and i don't think japanese nationalists will like to hear about the korean roots of japanese people.
Hellsing Berserk
QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Nov 3 2005, 10:44 PM)
if you didn't know, china 12,000 years ago was inhabited by negritos. they were later (5,000 years after) driven off to the fringes of asia by people who are the ancestors of modern chinese. thus the culture that was spread to japan from china was definately not chinese in meaning we know today.
*

sometimes i wonder if you are really a chinese or just a troll pretending to be a chinese.



QUOTE (chilli21 @ Nov 4 2005, 10:13 AM)
whatever, this is about the genetics of the japanese people, which has nothing to do with china, so stop bringing china into everything.

back to the topic: whether japanese came from koreans or mongolians or whatever, japanese is one race now and i don't think japanese nationalists will like to hear about the korean roots of japanese people.
*



do you know the story of xufu? he brought 5000 men and 5000 women with him and made a lifetime in japan. besides that there were also migrants to japan from china during war times in china i wonder did uyghurs ever migrated to japan as well?
northwestern_student
QUOTE (Hellsing Berserk @ Nov 4 2005, 11:58 AM)
QUOTE (northwestern_student @ Nov 3 2005, 10:44 PM)
if you didn't know, china 12,000 years ago was inhabited by negritos. they were later (5,000 years after) driven off to the fringes of asia by people who are the ancestors of modern chinese. thus the culture that was spread to japan from china was definately not chinese in meaning we know today.
*

sometimes i wonder if you are really a chinese or just a troll pretending to be a chinese.





well...i could say the same for you. i wonder if you are really a uighur or just a chinese troll pretending to be one.
CJK
what the heck is this story of xufu?

how come nobody non-chinese has heard of this?
Hellsing Berserk
QUOTE (CJK @ Nov 4 2005, 01:17 PM)
what the heck is this story of xufu?

how come nobody non-chinese has heard of this?
*

even japanese themself knows this


http://www2.saganet.ne.jp/niesu/zyofuku/xufu.htm

Mr. XU Fu (Mr. JYOU Fuku) in Saga

(2001.1.14)

1. About Mr. XU Fu or Mr. JYOU Fuku

XU Fu is the Chinese name. The Japanese name is “JYOU Fuku”. Here, XU Fu is adopted.

(I think Mr. XU Fu is a VIP in Chinese and Japanese history, XI Fu is more formal than JYOU Fuku)

Mr. XU Fu is an alchemist and necromancer, who know everything, like a modern scholar. In order to find the elixir herb of life, Emperor QIN Shi Huang (B.C. 259-209) ordered Mr. XU Fu to Peng-Liai Country (a fabled abode of immortals) in the eastern of sea. Mr. XU Fu set out his voyage to Peng-Liai Country with his fleet, and didn’t come back China.



2. Mr. XU Fu in Chinese historical records

About, Mr. Xu Fu, there are five records in Shi Ji, a formal Chinese historical records, written by Mr. SHI Ma-Qian, (B.C. 145-86).

Qing Shi Huang Ben Ji, (a part of Shi Ji, and the most formal biography of Emperor QIN Shi Huang): “ to find the elixir herb of life on the sea.”

Huan Nan Heng Shan Rie Chuan, (a part of Shi Ji , and the biography of King, Huan Nan Heng Shan): “Emperor QIN Shi Huang (B.C. 259-209) ordered Mr. XU Fu to go to sea to find the elixir herb of life”.

Huan Shu Wu Po Chuan, (a part of Shi Ji, and the biography of WU Po, in Han Dynasty): “Emperor QIN Shi Huang was very happy to collect 3000 boys and girls, the seed of the five cereals (rice, two kinds of millet, wheat and beans), one hundred kinds of dab hands, and ask Mr. XU Fu to find the elixir herb of life. Mr. XU Fu arrived the big plain and marshland, became the king and didn’t come back China”.

And other two records.



3. Legend of Mr. XU Fu

In Japan: About 30 places, Saga, Wakayama, Mie, Aomori, Kyoto, Kagoshima, and ect. have the legends of Mr. XU Fu. Generally, along the Pacific Ocean and Chinese Sea.

In China: HeBei, Shangdong, JiangShu, Zhejiang. Generally along the east coast.



4. Mr. XU Fu in Japanese historical records and literatures

Genji-Monogatari, Herayama- Monogatari, and ect.

5. Legend of Mr. XU Fu in Saga

In Morotomi-Cho:

(1) Reed with one side of leaf, (normally, reed have two sides of leaf)

(2) Etsu fish, (only in near Saga, this kind of fish exist)

(3) The legend of getting help from Ami, (a kind of small shrimp), the fishermen in Morotomi-Cho don’t catch Ami.

(4) The well, Mr. XU Fu used the water from this well to wash the hand.

(5) The floating wooden cup. The floating wooden cup moved with tide and guide the Mr. XU Fu’s fleet safely arrived the coast in Morotomi-Cho.



In Saga City:

There is a most famous event relating Mr. XU Fu in the Kinri Shrine. This event is held once every 50 years. The last event is the name of 2650 years event. This event is recorded in the Japanese historical book (A.D.861).

(1) The love story of Mr. XU Fu and Miss Otatsu. Mr. XU Fu must go outside, and ask his accompany to tell Miss Otatsu that he will come back after five years. But his accompany is not good in Japanese. The pronunciation of five is the similar to fifty. The fifty years is impossible for her to wait. She is very sadness and died. This event held once every 50 years is from this story.

(2) The elixir herb of life.

(3) The place named Senfu (One thousand (Sen) pieces of cloth (Fu)). 2200 years ago, the road was very difficult to walk. The residents spread one thousand pieces of cloth on the road to welcome Mr. XU Fu.



In Fuji-Cho: Furuyu Hot Spring, the other name is XU Fu Hot Spring.



In Ariake-Cho: The decorated ships berth in the harbor under the music.



In Takeo City: There is a mountain named Peng-Liai (a fabled abode of immortals).



In Imari City: There is a place named Qing-Tsu (The harbor named Qing)



6. The study of Mr. XU Fu from legend to science researches

As one of events for the centenary of Saga City, the symposium of “The emissary of Yayoi Mr. XU Fu” was held in April 1989. The most famous scholars from Japan and China, included Prof. UMEHARA Takeshi, Prof. HIGUCHI Takayasu, Prof. AN Zhi-Ming, and ect., attended this symposium.

In this symposium, the Yoshinogari site was as a material object of the legend of Mr. XU Fu.

7. The relationship between Yoshinogari site and China or Mr. XU Fu

(1) The skeletons of Yoshinogari site are similar to those of the lower Yangtze River, China. (By Prof. Nakahashi, Kyushu Univ.)

According the database, 60% of the skeletons of Yoshinogari site are similar to those of the lower Yangtze River, China. Only 40% the skeletons of Yoshinogari site are similar to those of the Jyoumon people and other people.

The ratio of 60% to 40% is the same as the results of DNA.

The above research is helpful to solve the problem: where is Japanese from?



(2) Roots of Japanese Rice (By Prof. Wasano, Saga Univ.)

There are three times of rice arrived Japan from BC. 700 to AD. 300.

The first time is about BC. 700, generally from Korea peninsula. But the rice is dryland rice, not paddy.

The second time is from BC. 500 to 300, from the lower Yangtze River, China. It is paddy rice. (In this period, there were many wars in China, Chinese went to Japan with the seed of rice)

The third time is from BC.300 to AD. 300. from the lower Yangtze River, China. It is paddy rice. (This period is the same as the time when Mr. XU Fu arrived Japan)



(3) Roots of Yoshinogari Ancient Tomb (By Prof. Onitsuka and Dr. Tang, Saga Univ.).

Prof. Onitsuka and Dr. Tang are making the research project: “The varieties of geotechnical characteristics and transitions in construction technique of earthfill, from the Ancient Tomb (Dotonbo) in the lower Yangtze River (JiangNan), China, to Yoshinogari Ancient Tomb, Japan”.



(4) Silk

It has been proved that the silk in Yoshinogari site is from the lower Yangtze River, China, not from Korea peninsula. Because Korea peninsula is too cold and the silkworm is small, silk is thinner that that in the lower Yangtze River, China.



(5) The time periods

The time period of Yoshinogari site is the changing period from Jyoumon culture to Yayoi culture of Japan.



(6) The burial pots

The thinking of the burial pots was from China or Mr. Xu Fu (will not old and die ). It is different with the thinking of Jyoumon culture (came back forest).



(7) Bronze coin is from China

This coin has Chinese characters: Huo Qian



(8) The bronze sword is the same as that in China.

The similar design of sword, namely the body and the handle of sword is connected. (casting in one time using the same material), are found in the lower Yangtze River, China



http://www.chinastyle.cn/transportation/xufus-sailing.htm



Xu Fu's Sailing to Japan


in 219 BC, when Emperor Qin Shihuang arrived in Langya (today's Zhucheng in East China's Shangdong Province) during a sea cruise, Xu Fu (a man of the Qi State) and others, claiming there were three divine mountains in the sea, submitted a request to the emperor, asking him to send children to search for the elixir of life. The emperor, believing what the group said, sent thousands of little boys and girls to accompany Xu on the voyage. However, several years passed and a great deal of money was spent without any results.

in 210 BC, when Emperor Qin cruised Langya again, Xu Fu, fearing to be blamed, lied to the emperor, saying there were many sharks in the sea and so the Imperial Court should send archers to get rid of them. This time, Emperor Qin sent 3,000 little boys and girls, together with hundreds of artisans, to accompany Xu.

According to research, it was probable that Xu Fu followed such a route: He started off from the Shangdong Peninsula; then, via the Bohai Valley, he arrived at the Liaodong Peninsula before moving on along the coastal area of the Korean Peninsula to reach the Tsushima Strait; finally, he arrived in Kitakyushu via Okinawa Island.

Xu Fu's achievements in reaching Japan by sea show the ancient Chinese people had a good mastery of the technologies and knowledge on oceangoing navigation. Today, Xu Fu's tomb can still be found in Wakayama (Japan), with the inscription of "Tomb of Xu Fu of the Qin Dynasty (221-206BC)."

Xu Fu's voyage to Japan marked the beginning of Chinese people's ocean ventures

toki
ok.. now im pretty much convinced you are Rider on the Road. he sent me the EXACT article when he PMed me sure.gif
Tsunga
Nah, I have access to that article a long time ago. Also, didn't Chinese send their prisoners to Japan in the same way the British did to Australia?
Hellsing Berserk
QUOTE (toki @ Nov 4 2005, 03:33 PM)
ok.. now im pretty much convinced you are Rider on the Road. he sent me the EXACT article when he PMed me sure.gif
*

you sure about it? thats exactlly what i got from google when i typed "xu fu"


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=xu+fu


like tsunga said. that article is not exclusivie to rider . any one who types xu fu on google would get it.

QUOTE (Tsunga @ Nov 4 2005, 03:38 PM)
Nah, I have access to that article a long time ago. Also, didn't Chinese send their prisoners to Japan in the same way the British did to Australia?
*
ChinaPower
wow everybody talks about me wow toki you sure loved me.
toki
QUOTE (ChinaPower @ Nov 4 2005, 04:01 PM)
wow everybody talks about me wow toki you sure loved me.
*

oh. so. this is you rider? it just we wonder why you got banned icon_confused.gif
Zezei
nice statues
ChinaPower
QUOTE (toki @ Nov 4 2005, 04:11 PM)
QUOTE (ChinaPower @ Nov 4 2005, 04:01 PM)
wow everybody talks about me wow toki you sure loved me.
*

oh. so. this is you rider? it just we wonder why you got banned icon_confused.gif
*


for no reasons i think. i've wondered that myself a few days ago couldn't figured it out tho that's why i'm here icon_sad.gif
SantaKlaws
QUOTE (DetunedRadio @ Nov 4 2005, 09:45 PM)
QUOTE (BahDukeplayer @ Nov 4 2005, 03:05 AM)


Gosh...I find it quite irritating when listening to Chinese people say that all of Asian's culture came from China.

It's all about "Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese...etc"...are descendants of China.

I mean come on...Japanese are mix of Mongoloids and Polynesian Jomon people.  Some Japanese are mixed with Ainu...hence giving some Japanese people a pseudo-caucasian look.

I'd say Koreans are descendants of the Mongols and also tribes from Central Asia like Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.
*


holy $hit how many times do i have to repeat this? I never said koreans and japanese ARE chinese people. I said it was china who brought CIVILIZATION to these countries.

key word is civilization. please differentiate civilization from things like language and genetics.

are the people in this forum illiterate or what? why is it so easy for people to put words in my mouth?
*



Even the Chinese scholars have recently admitted that China had multiple sources of civilization from cultures apart from the Huanghe valley. So shut the fu-k up. With regards to your blatant statement that Koreans only lived in huts before "Chinese introduced civilizaiton", Chinese also lived in huts in small villages. The former epicenter of Ancient Chosun is currently heavily urbanized and any arhceological dig would mean demolishing some bulidings. Recently, an archeological site was found within Seoul. It was almost destroyed by construction before a brave archeologist illegally entered the construction site and brought proof that there are archeological relics on the site.

According to your own Chinese scriptures, your Han army couldn't even breach the walls of Ancient Chosun for an entire year. Actually, they never did. A traitor within the city walls had to open the gates for you. Anyways, you're a real annoyance DR. Now I know why you were banned. Stop looking down on other cultures before I seriously start hurting your national/ethnic pride. Don't make me stoop down to your level, because I would really hate to bash other cultures, IF I'm capable of such barbarity.
Tsunga
^ Nice sig.

edit: to Chinapower
Kim Jung Il
I heard Korean's ancestors came from Manchuria, Mongolia and China.
michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(northwestern_student @ Nov 3 2005, 11:32 PM) [snapback]1212500[/snapback]

gah...stop bringing China into everything!! You might as well go to India chat and tell those guys there that China was responsible for Indian civilization.
...and the mods say i invite the trolling.



Hell yes!!! That's what I'm talking about. Finally, someone on this forum understand what I'm talking about. Just wait, pretty soon someone is going to claim that China invented the car and was the major inspiration behind the airplane. LMAO!
michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(DetunedRadio @ Nov 4 2005, 08:45 AM) [snapback]1213640[/snapback]

holy $hit how many times do i have to repeat this? I never said koreans and japanese ARE chinese people. I said it was china who brought CIVILIZATION to these countries.

key word is civilization. please differentiate civilization from things like language and genetics.

are the people in this forum illiterate or what? why is it so easy for people to put words in my mouth?



China, China, China. China, did this, China did that. Oh, you Chinese people, and your endless talk about "influencing" other cultures and bringing civilization! OKay, Japan and Korea didn't have a civilization so they did look to the Chinese for inspiration and a way to model their own states. But, the Chinese didn't "bring" it to them.
Similarly the Europeans all recieved civilization from Italians (Roman empire) who actually did bring civilization to them through, but do you hear Italians going off about how they're all related in Europe and act as if Europe owes them something? Hell no. Plus, Japan, Korea, and China have been seperate countries longer than the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

Please Chinese people! Stop with the "Everyone is Chinese" BS. And, stop talking about you bringing culture to anyone. No you didn't, they modeled something after you, but that's it. Plus, Japan and Korea have completely different cultures from you and speak languages that are less related Chinese than English is to Italian.

This whole "We're all Chinese" BS sounds simliar to racist comments that all Asians look the same in the US. No they're not the same, it's offensive. And, it's just Chinese nationalist propaganda to agree with such a comment. Also, no one wants to be Chinese, because no one wants their own government to run the over with tanks.
shaolin01
QUOTE(michinobu_zoned @ Apr 23 2006, 11:14 PM) [snapback]1782129[/snapback]

China, China, China. China, did this, China did that. Oh, you Chinese people, and your endless talk about "influencing" other cultures and bringing civilization! OKay, Japan and Korea didn't have a civilization so they did look to the Chinese for inspiration and a way to model their own states. But, the Chinese didn't "bring" it to them.
Similarly the Europeans all recieved civilization from Italians (Roman empire) who actually did bring civilization to them through, but do you hear Italians going off about how they're all related in Europe and act as if Europe owes them something? Hell no. Plus, Japan, Korea, and China have been seperate countries longer than the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

Please Chinese people! Stop with the "Everyone is Chinese" BS. And, stop talking about you bringing culture to anyone. No you didn't, they modeled something after you, but that's it. Plus, Japan and Korea have completely different cultures from you and speak languages that are less related Chinese than English is to Italian.

This whole "We're all Chinese" BS sounds simliar to racist comments that all Asians look the same in the US. No they're not the same, it's offensive. And, it's just Chinese nationalist propaganda to agree with such a comment. Also, no one wants to be Chinese, because no one wants their own government to run the over with tanks.


does your mom have chinese in her?
kunomchu
the western civilization seems to take pride that they are largely influenced by the Roman civilization. Non Chinese Asians don't seem to share that feeling toward the Chinese civilization. Not that I care really. Just interesting comparison.
korean_turtle87
QUOTE(DetunedRadio @ Nov 3 2005, 09:02 PM) [snapback]1212692[/snapback]


many japanese feel that they were the ones who influenced china.

lol. but in reality, its the other way around

QUOTE

and many koreans believe they developed civilization along with china concurrently.
i'll have to disagree somewhat. China started earlier, and accomplished more than us


QUOTE(BahDukeplayer @ Nov 4 2005, 01:05 AM) [snapback]1213382[/snapback]

I'd say Koreans are descendants of the Mongols and also tribes from Central Asia like Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.

i think we might have a fraction of northern chinese mixed in us

QUOTE(DetunedRadio @ Nov 4 2005, 05:45 AM) [snapback]1213640[/snapback]

I said it was china who brought CIVILIZATION to these countries.

bad wording. China never BROUGHT civilization to Korea. more like the king took culture and stuff FROM China, but i don't think China actually BROUGHT them

michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(shaolin01 @ Apr 24 2006, 12:19 AM) [snapback]1782152[/snapback]

does your mom have chinese in her?



NO!!! Why do you say that?
shaolin01
QUOTE(michinobu_zoned @ Apr 23 2006, 11:36 PM) [snapback]1782219[/snapback]

NO!!! Why do you say that?

im the one asking qusetions.

does your mom want any chinese in her?

Yes or No?
michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(kunomchu @ Apr 24 2006, 12:22 AM) [snapback]1782168[/snapback]

the western civilization seems to take pride that they are largely influenced by the Roman civilization. Non Chinese Asians don't seem to share that feeling toward the Chinese civilization. Not that I care really. Just interesting comparison.


Not actually, being an American, most people don't really care. Besides, the Romans no longer exist, their descendants (Italy) don't try to bully anyone around. China, on the other hand, does. They try to use excuses, like "We civilized you," to justify their coercion in that part of the world. So, other Asians try to deny it, because they don't want to give them any room, they don't want to budge a bit to these thugs.
At least Americans use "freedom" and "democracy" to justify what we do. China can't even do that, because China isn't free. It's people are ruled by an iron fist, and have to worry about their military using weapons on them for target practice if they openly complain.

QUOTE(shaolin01 @ Apr 24 2006, 12:41 AM) [snapback]1782229[/snapback]

does your mom want any chinese in her?

Yes or No?



Does she want... what?
Oh snap! Oh! I get it! LOL. $hit son, I never heard that one before. ROFL. It hit me like a truck, I could've never seen that one coming.
I guess we have a comic genius. LMAO G@@k, please you must have a mental disease.
Okay, I'll stop with that one. lol I hope no one was offended with that word, the G-word. Oh well, don't black people get to use the N-word so often? It can't be that bad.
EmperorMing
x
Ino
Only people who are blind cannot see that China's influence on Japanese culture was HUGE

MinaNY
edited
Ino
Study East Asian history and you will know that before Japan was called "Land of the Rising Sun" they were called "Land of the Dwarves" (Land of Wa)

My relatives in Japan are tall tho laugh.gif

enomosiki
QUOTE(Ino @ Aug 21 2006, 10:01 PM) [snapback]2204440[/snapback]

Study East Asian history and you will know that before Japan was called "Land of the Rising Sun" they were called "Land of the Dwarves" (Land of Wa)

My relatives in Japan are tall tho laugh.gif


Who are you, by the way? Japanese or Korean, or mixed?
HanulSky
if only they invented the video recorder back then.
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