RentonWong
Nov 4 2005, 09:00 AM
QUOTE
Published on TaipeiTimes
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/arc...1/04/2003278641Lee Teng-hui plans another Japan trip
By Jewel Huang
STAFF REPORTER, WITH CNA
Friday, Nov 04, 2005,Page 3
Former president Lee Teng-hui (李登輝) said yesterday that he is interested in visiting Japan this coming spring, saying he has been planning a trip but he wondered if "other people" would let him go.
He made the statement in Taoyuan after attending the closing ceremony for the Lee Teng-hui School's special program for Japanese professors and students.When asked if he was planning to visit Japan next April, Lee said, "Yes, I'm planning [the trip], and I want to go there, too. But I wonder if other people would let me go."
Lee did not say who "other people" were, but it is generally considered that he meant China, which has pressured the Japanese government not to allow him to visit Japan.
Lee intends to visit Tokyo and pay a visit to a scenic spot in northeast Japan called Okunohosomichi. In an interview with the Japanese press, Lee has also mentioned that he wanted to visit the Yasukuni Shrine to perform a memorial service for his brother, who is enshrined there, according to a friend of Lee's, speaking on condition of anonymity.At present, most of the newly appointed members of Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's Cabinet are friendly to Taiwan, which provides Lee with a good opportunity to revisit Japan, the friend said.
Lee has visited Japan twice in the past five years -- in April 2001 and last December -- and the spring is an advantageous time for Lee to go back to Japan, after his successful visit to the US last month.
"Although Lee's plan to visit Japan is not confirmed yet, the direction is quite sure and the plan will definitely move ahead," the friend said.
The slave finally shows his true colors.
chickery
Nov 4 2005, 10:55 AM
renton, once again you have nothing to say that will help relations between china & taiwan
product_ako
Nov 4 2005, 11:18 AM
More like LTH actions are not helping Taiwan and China cross-strait relations.
chickery
Nov 4 2005, 11:26 AM
right, because the former president's actions in present day dictate those relations
Suijen
Nov 4 2005, 04:00 PM
LTH is trolling, plain and simple.
fu-king
chickery
Nov 4 2005, 04:07 PM
i dont understand why its so wrong for LTH to go to Japan.
seriously, you people read way too much into what you want to believe.
RentonWong
Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
Suijen
Nov 4 2005, 04:44 PM
Why does he decide to go to the Yakasuni shrine NOW of all times when China is pissed off at Japan for doing that?
He's not going there to honor his Japanese brother. He's going there so that he can piss off the Chinese. It's the same reason the PM does it nowadays. He knows it's going to PO the Chinese. And he does it IN SPITE of it. How is this guy a diplomat?
chickery
Nov 4 2005, 05:52 PM
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM)
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
uh huh.
id say sorry, but since my taiwanese-AMERICAN has actually BEEN to the shrine, no thanks.
since you didnt know, its ok since you are only chinese-CANADIAN. (NOTE emphasis of Canadian)
chynagongju
Nov 4 2005, 06:27 PM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM)
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
uh huh.
id say sorry, but since my taiwanese-AMERICAN has actually BEEN to the shrine, no thanks.
since you didnt know, its ok since you are only chinese-CANADIAN. (NOTE emphasis of Canadian)

What did you do at the shrine?
LTH going to Japan to visit the Yasukuni Shrine is a bad thing. Even if he's a former leader. Perhaps especially because he is a former leader. The symbolism behind the PM of Japan's visits to YS is honoring war criminals from WWII. Bad stuff is LTH also wants to do the same.
How and why is his brother entombed at YS anyways?
Suijen
Nov 4 2005, 06:36 PM
I guess he aided the Japanese in occupying Taiwan and China,
Temujin
Nov 4 2005, 08:02 PM
STUPID JAPANESE DOGS!!!
RentonWong
Nov 4 2005, 08:06 PM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 05:52 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM)
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
uh huh.
id say sorry, but since my taiwanese-AMERICAN has actually BEEN to the shrine, no thanks.
since you didnt know, its ok since you are only chinese-CANADIAN. (NOTE emphasis of Canadian)
I'm not surprised if you visited the Yasukuni shrine. Your "taiwanese-American" probobly visited purely out of spite

2
Here is a description of the Yasukuni Shrine
QUOTE
Yasukuni Shrine (literally "peaceful nation shrine") is a controversial Shinto shrine located in Tokyo, Japan dedicated to the spirits of soldiers who died fighting on behalf of the Japanese emperor. The name of the shrine was originally written 靖國神社 (Yasukuni Jinja). But with the designation of the jōyō kanji, the name is now written in the simplified 靖国神社.
As of October 2004, its Book of Souls lists the names of 2,466,532 Japanese and former colonial soldiers (mostly Korean and Taiwanese) killed in war.
Also honored here are 14 Japanese Class A war criminals, a fact which has engendered protests in a number of neighboring countries who believe their presence indicates a failure on the part of Japan to fully atone for its military past.The shrine honors as kami the spirits of those who have fought on behalf of the emperor. This includes about 1,000 POWs executed for war crimes during World War II. In addition, on October 17, 1978, 14 Class A war criminals (according to the judgement of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East), including Hideki Tojo, were quietly enshrined as "Martyrs of Shōwa" (昭和殉難者 Shōwa junnansha). They are listed below, according to their sentencing:
* Death by hanging:
Hideki Tojo, Itagaki Seishiro, Heitaro Kimura, Kenji Doihara, Iwane Matsui, Akira Muto, Koki Hirota
* Lifetime imprisonment:
Yoshijiro Umezu, Kuniaki Koiso, Kiichiro Hiranuma, Toshio Shiratori
* 20-year imprisonment:
Shigenori Togo
* Died before a judicial decision was reached (due to illness or disease):
Osami Nagano, Yosuke Matsuoka
When this was revealed to the media on April 19, 1979, it started a controversy which continues to this day. For China, Korea (both North and South), Taiwan, and other nations that suffered from Japanese military aggression and occupation, the shrine is a symbol of Japanese militarism and right-wing nationalism. Peace groups in Japan also take issue with the shrine for similar reasons.In addition, Yasukuni Shrine operates a museum on the history of Japan which outside observers have criticized as presenting a revisionist interpretation. A documentary-style video shown to museum visitors portrays Japan's conquest of East Asia during the pre-World War II period as an effort to save the region from the imperial advances of Western powers. Displays deny that events such as the Nanking Massacre took place and systematically portrays Japan as a victim of foreign influence, especially Western pressure.
A pamphlet published by the shrine says: "War is a really tragic thing to happen, but it was necessary in order for us to protect the independence of Japan and to prosper together with Asian neighbors." It also says that Japanese POWs executed for war crimes were "cruelly and unjustly tried" by a "sham-like tribunal of the Allied forces".The shrine's English language website defends Japanese occupation and aggression prior to and during World War II, by stating the following: "War is truly sorrowful. Yet to maintain the independence and peace of the nation and for the prosperity of all of Asia, Japan was forced into conflict.
After the revelation by the media, Emperor Hirohito stopped paying visits to Yasukuni Shrine and his successor, Emperor Akihito, has also refrained from doing so. However, there are strong voices among certain circles in Japan urging the emperor to visit the shrine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_shrine#Controversyhttp://www.yasukuni.or.jp/english/http://w...n20041220f1.htmHere is the same article in Lee Teng Hui's native language:
QUOTE
靖国神社(靖國神社、やすくに・じんじゃ)は、東京都千代田区にある神社で、近代以降の日本が関係した国内外の事変・戦争において、朝廷側及び日本政府側で戦役に付し、戦没した軍人・軍属等を、慰霊・顕彰・崇敬等の目的に祭神として祀る神社である。
日本で国家に殉じた戦没者(自衛隊殉職者も含む)を祭神とするため、日本国外では戦争神社(war shrine)と呼ぶ人もいる。地名から「九段」「九段下」などと呼ばれることも多い。
単一宗教法人であり、神社本庁には加盟していない。
A級戦犯の合祀
第二次世界大戦後の極東国際軍事裁判(いわゆる「東京裁判」)において処刑された(特にA級戦犯を指す)人々が、1978年10月17日に国家の犠牲者『昭和殉難者』として合祀されていた事実が、1979年4月19日にマスコミに大きく報道されて国民の広く知るところとなった。戦後昭和天皇は数年おきに参拝していたが、合祀以前の1975年(昭和50年)頃からマスコミによる「私的・公的」や「玉串料の支払」等の問いただしで、当時の三木首相の「私的参拝」発言により憲法論議を招来し政治的騒擾に巻き込む事になる。側近によれば昭和天皇はA級戦犯合祀に反対だったとされ、天皇親拝は1975年11月21日、終戦30周年が最後となっている。それ以降、春秋の例大祭などにおいては勅使が遣わされている。しかし、2004年8月15日には石原慎太郎都知事が「天皇陛下による参拝を望む」と、マスメディアに発言するなど、天皇による靖国神社参拝を望む声も多々ある。 尚、靖国神社に合祀されているA級戦犯は以下の14人である。
1. 刑死した者
* 東条英機(内閣総理大臣・陸軍大臣・陸軍大将・絞首刑)
* 広田弘毅(内閣総理大臣・外務大臣・駐ソヴィエト大使・絞首刑)
* 土肥原賢二(陸軍大将・奉天特務機関長・絞首刑)
* 板垣征四郎(陸軍大将・支那派遣軍総参謀長・絞首刑)
* 木村兵太郎(陸軍大将・ビルマ方面軍司令官・絞首刑)
* 松井石根(陸軍大将・中支那方面軍司令官・絞首刑)
* 武藤章(陸軍中将・陸軍省軍務局長・絞首刑)
2. 刑期中に病死した者
* 平沼騏一郎(内閣総理大臣・枢密院議長・終身刑)
* 白鳥敏夫(駐イタリア大使・終身刑)
* 小磯国昭(内閣総理大臣・朝鮮総督・陸軍大将・終身刑)
* 梅津美治郎(陸軍大将・関東軍司令官・陸軍参謀総長・終身刑)
* 東郷茂徳(外務大臣・駐ドイツ/駐ソヴィエト大使・禁固20年)
1. 戦犯指定を受けながら判決前に病死した者
* 永野修身(海軍大臣・海軍大将・海軍軍令部総長)
* 松岡洋右(外務大臣・南満州鉄道総裁)
極東アジアの軍人軍属の合祀
第二次大戦期に日本兵として戦った台湾や朝鮮出身の元軍人軍属も多数祀られている。
しかし、2001年6月29日、台湾や韓国の元軍人軍属の一部遺族計252名が、日本に対し戦争で受けた被害として24億円余の賠償金を求めた裁判(敗訴)があり、原告の一部から「戦死した親族の靖国神社への合祀(ごうし)は自らの意思に反し、人格権の侵害である」として、55人が合祀の停止、66人が遺骨返還、16人が生死確認を求めるなど、一部からは反発も受けている。合祀しなかった場合、日本人は台湾・韓国人元軍人軍属を平等に扱わなかったと別の面で批判された可能性も指摘されている。
「親族の意に反した合祀は日本によるアジア侵略の象徴である」との批判がある一方、「英霊として日本人と分け隔てなく祀ることは日本だけでなく台湾や韓国の元軍人軍属への最大の敬意の現れであり、靖国神社へ合祀している事は日本の台湾や韓国への植民地政策が、欧州各国による東南アジア植民地政策とは一線を画すものだ」とする意見もある。
なお、いったん合祀した神霊は、その後から分祀しても元々の社殿に残るため、英霊として祭られた人々の霊を靖国の社から取り除くことは不可能であると靖国神社は主張している。海外の遺族が、家族(の霊)を返してくれと抗議しても、叶わないのは、このような理由である。これはA級戦犯に関しても同じで、いったん合祀した霊魂を、靖国の社から取り除くことは不可能であるという。
(靖国神社問題を参照)
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9D%96%E5%...%A5%9E%E7%A4%BEJapanese is the first language for Lee Teng Hui aka 岩里政男 (Yanli Zhengnan) his preferred Japanese name

2
chynagongju
Nov 4 2005, 09:52 PM
QUOTE (Suijen @ Nov 4 2005, 05:36 PM)
I guess he aided the Japanese in occupying Taiwan and China,
I see. That's odd how LTH does not vouch for his brother's remains to be transported back to Taiwan. There are many groups in Taiwan that protest for that right.
chickery
Nov 4 2005, 10:39 PM
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 4 2005, 06:27 PM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM)
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
uh huh.
id say sorry, but since my taiwanese-AMERICAN has actually BEEN to the shrine, no thanks.
since you didnt know, its ok since you are only chinese-CANADIAN. (NOTE emphasis of Canadian)

What did you do at the shrine?
LTH going to Japan to visit the Yasukuni Shrine is a bad thing. Even if he's a former leader. Perhaps especially because he is a former leader. The symbolism behind the PM of Japan's visits to YS is honoring war criminals from WWII. Bad stuff is LTH also wants to do the same.
How and why is his brother entombed at YS anyways?
YSis also a place that the Taiwanese feel strongly compelled to go to~ they believe many ancestors are housed there and frequently, Taiwanese groups along with Japanese groups go to plea for peace.
BTW i went there to observe the contraversy of the architecture as compared to the current events.
Kim Jung Il
Nov 4 2005, 10:43 PM
shameful
RentonWong
Nov 5 2005, 01:58 AM
Im glad your ancestors are proud to be tools for the imperial Japanese Army (IJA)
intestine_treasurer
Nov 5 2005, 06:29 AM
this is very low dignity behaviour for humans i cant explain it
chynagongju
Nov 5 2005, 10:54 PM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 09:39 PM)
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 4 2005, 06:27 PM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM)
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
uh huh.
id say sorry, but since my taiwanese-AMERICAN has actually BEEN to the shrine, no thanks.
since you didnt know, its ok since you are only chinese-CANADIAN. (NOTE emphasis of Canadian)

What did you do at the shrine?
LTH going to Japan to visit the Yasukuni Shrine is a bad thing. Even if he's a former leader. Perhaps especially because he is a former leader. The symbolism behind the PM of Japan's visits to YS is honoring war criminals from WWII. Bad stuff is LTH also wants to do the same.
How and why is his brother entombed at YS anyways?
YSis also a place that the Taiwanese feel strongly compelled to go to~ they believe many ancestors are housed there and frequently, Taiwanese groups along with Japanese groups go to plea for peace.
BTW i went there to observe the contraversy of the architecture as compared to the current events.
Shouldn't the Taiwanese protest for the remains of their ancestors to be returned to Taiwan instead of being stored in Japan? I heard that many aborigine groups do protest for this.
They go to plea for peace? What do you mean? If you want to plea for peace, that would not be the place to go.
chickery
Nov 5 2005, 11:56 PM
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 5 2005, 01:58 AM)
Im glad your ancestors are proud to be tools for the imperial Japanese Army (IJA)
wow clearly you didnt read anything i said.
oh and i think when in this day in age that taiwanese people are being murdered in china for the sole purpose of being taiwanese, someone like you should re-think criticizing another country for mistreating taiwan.
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 5 2005, 10:54 PM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 09:39 PM)
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 4 2005, 06:27 PM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM)
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
uh huh.
id say sorry, but since my taiwanese-AMERICAN has actually BEEN to the shrine, no thanks.
since you didnt know, its ok since you are only chinese-CANADIAN. (NOTE emphasis of Canadian)

What did you do at the shrine?
LTH going to Japan to visit the Yasukuni Shrine is a bad thing. Even if he's a former leader. Perhaps especially because he is a former leader. The symbolism behind the PM of Japan's visits to YS is honoring war criminals from WWII. Bad stuff is LTH also wants to do the same.
How and why is his brother entombed at YS anyways?
YSis also a place that the Taiwanese feel strongly compelled to go to~ they believe many ancestors are housed there and frequently, Taiwanese groups along with Japanese groups go to plea for peace.
BTW i went there to observe the contraversy of the architecture as compared to the current events.
Shouldn't the Taiwanese protest for the remains of their ancestors to be returned to Taiwan instead of being stored in Japan? I heard that many aborigine groups do protest for this.
They go to plea for peace? What do you mean? If you want to plea for peace, that would not be the place to go.
when they go there, the do so to perform rituals that they believe will bring back their ancestors to taiwan.
chynagongju
Nov 5 2005, 11:59 PM
China murders people these days just for being Taiwanese?
RentonWong
Nov 6 2005, 12:00 AM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 5 2005, 11:56 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 5 2005, 01:58 AM)
Im glad your ancestors are proud to be tools for the imperial Japanese Army (IJA)
wow clearly you didnt read anything i said.
oh and i think when in this day in age that taiwanese people are being murdered in china for the sole purpose of being taiwanese, someone like you should re-think criticizing another country for mistreating taiwan.
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 5 2005, 10:54 PM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 09:39 PM)
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 4 2005, 06:27 PM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 4 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 4 2005, 04:16 PM)
Do you know the significance of the Yasukuni Shrine?
If not, it is ok because you are only taiwanese-AMERICAN. (NOTE emphasis of American)
uh huh.
id say sorry, but since my taiwanese-AMERICAN has actually BEEN to the shrine, no thanks.
since you didnt know, its ok since you are only chinese-CANADIAN. (NOTE emphasis of Canadian)

What did you do at the shrine?
LTH going to Japan to visit the Yasukuni Shrine is a bad thing. Even if he's a former leader. Perhaps especially because he is a former leader. The symbolism behind the PM of Japan's visits to YS is honoring war criminals from WWII. Bad stuff is LTH also wants to do the same.
How and why is his brother entombed at YS anyways?
YSis also a place that the Taiwanese feel strongly compelled to go to~ they believe many ancestors are housed there and frequently, Taiwanese groups along with Japanese groups go to plea for peace.
BTW i went there to observe the contraversy of the architecture as compared to the current events.
Shouldn't the Taiwanese protest for the remains of their ancestors to be returned to Taiwan instead of being stored in Japan? I heard that many aborigine groups do protest for this.
They go to plea for peace? What do you mean? If you want to plea for peace, that would not be the place to go.
when they go there, the do so to perform rituals that they believe will bring back their ancestors to taiwan.
Right...praying in a War Shrine to bring them back? I know of groups who have protested to physically bring their remains back to their Taiwanese families. Since when are Taiwanese businessmen murdered in China for being Chinese? Where are your sources?

2
chickery
Nov 6 2005, 12:00 AM
@chynagongju i can tell you over the phone....
lets just say, its pretty mortifying.
renton, even if i told you, would you belive me? would that change your opinion? i doubt it. and when did i say businessmen? i see twisting my words is one of your strengths.
chynagongju
Nov 6 2005, 12:01 AM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 5 2005, 11:00 PM)
i can tell you over the phone....
lets just say, its pretty mortifying.
Somehow it's not very believeable. If it honestly was happening simply because they're Taiwanese, I'm sure the media would get a big bite out of it. Sources?
RentonWong
Nov 6 2005, 12:02 AM
You are digging yourself in a hole...
228 was in Taiwan and it pales in comparison to what the IJA did in Korea, China, Taiwan, and Southeast Asia
chynagongju
Nov 6 2005, 12:02 AM
^Dude. She's not supporting the IJA.
chickery
Nov 6 2005, 12:04 AM
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 6 2005, 12:01 AM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 5 2005, 11:00 PM)
i can tell you over the phone....
lets just say, its pretty mortifying.
Somehow it's not very believeable. If it honestly was happening simply because they're Taiwanese, I'm sure the media would get a big bite out of it. Sources?
like i said, ill tell you over the phone.
RentonWong
Nov 6 2005, 12:04 AM
No but she thinks 228 was the worst thing to happen in the whole wide world...which is not exactly true
chynagongju
Nov 6 2005, 12:14 AM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 5 2005, 11:04 PM)
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 6 2005, 12:01 AM)
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 5 2005, 11:00 PM)
i can tell you over the phone....
lets just say, its pretty mortifying.
Somehow it's not very believeable. If it honestly was happening simply because they're Taiwanese, I'm sure the media would get a big bite out of it. Sources?
like i said, ill tell you over the phone.
Why don't you just post it?
Mortifying as in embarassing?
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 5 2005, 11:04 PM)
No but she thinks 228 was the worst thing to happen in the whole wide world...which is not exactly true
What is 228. Sorry for the ignorance.
I don't think she ever said it was the worst thing to happen in the whole wide world.
chickery
Nov 6 2005, 12:29 AM
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 6 2005, 12:04 AM)
No but she thinks 228 was the worst thing to happen in the whole wide world...which is not exactly true
um.
when did i say that?
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 6 2005, 12:14 AM)
Why don't you just post it?
Mortifying as in embarassing?
alright fine~
when i went to hangzhou, we went to stay at qiandao lake at the beach house, but they hid this from me because they thought id be too freaked out to go.
at qiandao lake a group of taiwanese tourists were beaten, robbed and murdered then thrown into the lake for the sole reason of being taiwanese.
chynagongju
Nov 6 2005, 12:30 AM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 5 2005, 11:29 PM)
QUOTE (RentonWong @ Nov 6 2005, 12:04 AM)
No but she thinks 228 was the worst thing to happen in the whole wide world...which is not exactly true
um.
when did i say that?
QUOTE (chynagongju @ Nov 6 2005, 12:14 AM)
Why don't you just post it?
Mortifying as in embarassing?
alright fine~
when i went to hangzhou, we went to stay at qiandao lake at the beach house, but they hid this from me because they thought id be too freaked out to go.
at qiandao lake a group of taiwanese tourists were beaten, robbed and murdered then thrown into the lake for the sole reason of being taiwanese.
And who did this? Does this have to do with the government? Or is it just some crazy people who did it? That's the sole reason? Or did they want the money/rob them for stuff?
RentonWong
Nov 6 2005, 12:33 AM
where is the source that said it was a "hate" crime and not just a crime based on greed?
the hole is getting deeper...
chynagongju
Nov 6 2005, 12:35 AM
^Could you explain what 228 is? Thank you!
chickery
Nov 6 2005, 12:42 AM
the source?
well, considering that the locals at qiandao all acknowledge it as a hate crime, i'd say words from the people that live there at least give an accurate description of their attitude.
http://it.stlawu.edu/~govt/376ReservesDreyer.htmlif you look at the footnotes of this article, you will see the incident im referring to.
chynagongju
Nov 6 2005, 12:46 AM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 5 2005, 11:42 PM)
the source?
well, considering that the locals at qiandao all acknowledge it as a hate crime, i'd say words from the people that live there at least give an accurate description of their attitude.
http://it.stlawu.edu/~govt/376ReservesDreyer.htmlif you look at the footnotes of this article, you will see the incident im referring to.
If it was strictly a hate crime, they wouldn't have stolen their money and stuff I think. Who did it btw? Just a random group? That doesn't categorize all of China at all.
chickery
Nov 6 2005, 01:00 AM
^it doesnt categorize all of china, i completely agree! (as alan was saying as well btw lol) and he said that all of the people who commited the crime are now in jail, but i didnt get an orginazation or group name from him. i googled it and one newspaper said it was chinese soldiers, but im not going to jump to that conclusion.
but still, this is an example of rather recent incidents between china & taiwan which have shaken the grounds between the two. renton seems to think that taiwan is a "joke" & TIers are fighting for a pointless cause, but its not as if a TIer is against unification for no reason. he especially tries to take relations between Taiwan & Japan out of context to further the chinese misconception of TIers beliefs.
in another one of his recent topics, he lables taiwan as "loving hitler" when in fact the KMT created a commercial comparing ABien with Hitler, saying that the tyrannical rule needed to end. It was NOT the DDPs own commercial and NEITHER party was putting Hitler in a positive light, yet renton completely disregarded this and instead linked a Jewish organization's letter of protest to taiwan, without the actual SOURCE of the commercial.
chynagongju
Nov 6 2005, 01:06 AM
Hmm I see.
Have there been any hate crimes against Mainlanders in Taiwan?
Taiwan and Japan relations, LTH esp, is not a good image to feed to Mainlanders about Taiwan.
chickery
Nov 6 2005, 01:16 AM
donno~ havent heard of any recently (thats not to say it hasnt ever happened)
LTH comes from a certain generation of Taiwanese, and their mentality towards Japan is really hard to explain.
bobX
Nov 6 2005, 01:41 AM
Most 70 to 80 year olds are like that. During their time, they saw Japan "modernize" Taiwan by building roads, schools, hospitals, and rail roads.
Now very few people share LTH's degree of fondness toward Japan.
Remember LTH is a 80 year old, not all his ideologies and opinions are shared by the majority of the people in Taiwan.
bobX
Nov 6 2005, 02:01 AM
QUOTE (chickery @ Nov 6 2005, 12:42 AM)
http://it.stlawu.edu/~govt/376ReservesDreyer.htmlif you look at the footnotes of this article, you will see the incident im referring to.
When KMT landed and claimed Taiwan as a base, many locals resisted. Many were used to not having a central government after a long period of negligence.
228..
Soldiers came to villages and massacred families that were suspected in the "rebellion movement"
Some d!cks at that time would try to used this time of chaos to their advantage; they ratted on these who they disliked and the KMT secret police would pay the person a visit and take him/her away.
battleship
Nov 6 2005, 02:01 AM
make you all wonder why renton wong is constantly trashing Taiwan.
perhaps i will ask him.
is it perhaps your DDP girlfriend dumped you?
is it perhaps your DDP company fired you?
is it perhaps your Taiwan tourist visa expired and you got kick out of Taiwan?
is it perhaps a Taiwan Taxi driver took all your money and left you on the street? and now you are a bitter troll?
than what? do tell us and enlighten us.
well, let me tell you. perhaps you are the pet doggy kmt who worship the communist dictators, and we DDP will never join you.
oh, and lastly, it is mainland chinese who is buying all the japanese cosmetic, fashion clothings, electronics, etc etc and it is mainland chinese who is too afraid to protest against japanese claim of diayutai islands. just go china a see for yourself, made in japan products are selling like hot cakes.
bobX
Nov 6 2005, 02:07 AM
Take it easy on renton wong ....dont take him seriously.
As you see i had already pointed in another thread, renton wong is just immature and not very cerebral.
He likes to put labels and overgeneralize people. His way of thinking easily get him to have unreasonable hatred toward a whole region of people.
Just look at his interest under his profile... That explains everything about him. He is too filled with hate to think rationally.
kunomchu
Nov 6 2005, 02:17 AM
taiwanese who become traitors to the chinese people should be executed.
bobX
Nov 6 2005, 02:20 AM
Define treachery to Chinese people
And please describe how and by whom should they be executed.
( I am looking for a paragraph atleast)
battleship
Nov 6 2005, 02:25 AM
traveling to another country is not a crime. it is only to express difference in political opinion.
and yes, I TOTALLY AGREE those who are traitors of chinese people should be EXCUTED.
the KMT who mass murdered million in china should be excuted!
the KMT who mass murdered 25,000 in Taiwan should be excuted!
the ccp who use the idea of proprganda during the cultural revolution and millions in china died , should be excuted!
the ccp dictators who stole billion and put into their own pockets should be excuted!
the ccp who don't allow freedom to vote for 1 billion chinese should be excuted!
let the excutions begin.!!
bobX
Nov 6 2005, 02:32 AM
Chinese governent officials who receive bribes outside of China should be executed.
Tell me, kunomchu, does your daddy happen to work for the goverment of China?
Are you living outside of China in a mansion with new shiny mercedes delivered to your house every year?
Or the people that allow factories to produce secound hand cheap products that dont follow any safety or health regulations should be executed.
Maybe some people here want reunification with Taiwan, so more of these cheap hazardous goods get sold.
Just compare any products with "labels of made in China" in north america and to these that get sold in the streets in China; the government of China sure loves its citizens.
The government that orderes its own children to be crushed by tanks should be executed.
Taiwanese people are eager and are longing for the day that they get govern by such governement.
kunomchu
Nov 6 2005, 03:10 AM
lol another taiwanese troll. Any Taiwanese that wants independence from "China" is a traitor. They shall be either A. Executed or B. Deported to Japan. I am American Chinese and I do not hide the faults of the CCP. My father does hold dual citizenship to the PRC. If I find that the PRC will allow me a higher standard of living than that of the USA, I will repatriach. Right now, I'm working on finishing my B.A. and getting a job. Who knows what my nationality will be in the future. It is numbskulls like you that can't see what is happening in China. It is changing and will turn democratic. Lol factories that produce cheap products? Are you talking about the millions of american merchandise and textiles that is made in China? Those that you buy from walmart? About the tanks running over its own people. Tiannamen had its reasons and consequences. Search AF to find the answers.
bobX
Nov 6 2005, 03:13 AM
Buddy, go buy a bottle of soy sauce in the street of Guang Zhou i dont think wall mart makes soy sauce.
"
It is numbskulls like you that can't see what is happening in China. It is changing and will turn democratic. Lol factories that produce cheap products? Are you talking about the millions of american merchandise and textiles that is made in China? "
Go sleep on mats made in china that are for people of china... You will wake up in the morning with all the dye on the matt on your pajama.
I think soda made from uranium enriched water taste yummy to me.
And yes one of the reasons why americans go to china to set up their factory because they know they can get away with alot of safety and health regulations by offering cash or cars to officials.
And when china becomes democratic...
Then talks of reunification can be serious.
kunomchu
Nov 6 2005, 03:30 AM
Yah and what does that have to do with Taiwan? I said in other threads that the PRC should set up federal agencies to monitor and test products. Your posts are like retarded rhetoric. Soda from Uranium? Why don't you post up some sources? Did I say corruption was none existant? Again this is a thread about Chinese traitors like LTH. Why don't you take your bs somewhere where they actually give a damn?
bobX
Nov 6 2005, 03:36 AM
QUOTE (kunomchu @ Nov 6 2005, 03:30 AM)
Y
ah and what does that have to do with Taiwan? I said in other threads that the PRC should set up federal agencies to monitor and test products. Your posts are like retarded rhetoric.
Soda from Uranium? Why don't you post up some sources? Did I say corruption was none existant? Again this is a thread about Chinese traitors like LTH. Why don't you take your bs somewhere where they actually give a damn?
1) hmm if China is all fixed up wouldnt reunification be easier for Taiwanese to accept?
2) Sorry I failed in expressing myself sarcastically. But it is a fact that factories get away with so much $hitz because of the corrupted governemnt
"Why don't you take your bs somewhere where they actually give a damn?"
A true chinese you are, you support the government that allow greedy americans to come to china to poison and cheapen the name of China with secound hand materials with "made in China " labels
Again i will repeat mysel: when china is democratic and fixes its corruption issues...then talk of reunification can become serious
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