Tokyo objects to China comparing Japanese leader's shrine visits to Hitler

Japan objected on Wednesday to a Chinese official's statement that Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's visits to a war shrine were similar to worshipping Hitler.

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe told reporters that the comparison, which was made by Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing, was not appropriate.

"I can't help but feel that something is wrong with using such a metaphor," he told reporters.

Koizumi has visited the Yasukuni war shrine five times as prime minister, most recently in October. The shrine honors Japan's war dead, including executed World War II criminals, and Beijing has condemned the visits as a glorification of militarism.

On Tuesday, Li told reporters at a conference of Pacific Rim countries in South Korea that Japan should learn from the example of Germany, where officials no longer worship World War II dictator Adolf Hitler.

Abe said Koizumi's visits were aimed at the soldiers killed in the war, not those held responsible for Japan's conquest of East Asia in the 1930s and '40s.

"The prime minister is praying for those who died for the country and is paying respect to those people," Abe said. "It is of course not aimed toward a particular individual," he added, referring to the war criminals enshrined at Yasukuni.

Koizumi's October visit to the shrine, which also hosts a museum that attempts to justify Japanese militarism, contributed to a deterioration of ties with China and South Korea.

Beijing canceled a planned visit by Japan's foreign minister after the visit, and Li said on Tuesday that there was no chance Koizumi would meet with Chinese President Hu Jintao on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit this week.

Li met with his South Korean counterpart, Ban Ki-moon, on Tuesday at APEC in Busan, South Korea, and the Japanese war shrine issue was among those discussed, officials said.

"One should not worship those type of people who inflict harm on so many others," Li said, referring to Yasukuni. "There's been no one among the German leadership after the war who worshipped Hitler." (AP)

Chinese minister: Japan should learn from Germany and end worship of war criminals

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/new...0na019000c.html


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Shinzo should follow his own goddamn advice



then why is there war 1 thousand war criminals there?


lol japanese politicians are fu-king ridiculous.

I'm not surprised they objected, it's hardly the same thing at all, that's an idiotic comparsion to make in the first place.

how is it idiotic?

^ The names should be removed then everyone would shut up and stop whinging about it.
Chinese minister: Japan should learn from Germany and end worship of war criminals
They're not actually worshipping the war criminals, everyone knows that anyway

worship is the same as honoring. stop trying to spin it lol.

Except everyone knows he's going there to honour the dead citizens not the war criminals, China is just finding something else to b!tch about
Also, worshipping would be honour and adoration etc. Not all forms of honouring are forms of worship

Actually everyone knows he's honoring heavendamn dead SOLDIERS AND war criminals. China isn't only one who b!tch around. Korea and other Asian countries are b!tching too. Japan is also b!tching about how China emerge as superpower.

I highly doubt he's going there thinking about how much respect the war criminals deserve, he's not that stupid.
Korea and China are always complaining about Japan, it's nothing new.
Haven't read anything anywhere

dead citizens? yeah right everybody knows hes vising there for the war criminals

Sure he is

japan was never invated during ww2 so how many dead citizens were actually killed by foreign troops like what japan did to china and korea?proplly none,the japanese troops were the most sick and perverted troops in the history of man kind,they did sick exprements on chinese and koreans in northeast of china the unit was called 731,they mass murdered childrens,innocent citizens of china and korea the most famous one is in nanjing,and your people are still proud of it till today,as one can see in the vist to the war criminal shirne the only time your citizens were killed was by the two atomic bombs which your people asked for it when the US told your country to stop the war.

Considering there are around 2.5 million people on the list and only 14 war criminals you obviously don't read about these things much.
Yes the citizens asked to be bombed.........yes

read this




japan was never invated during ww2 so how many dead citizens were actually killed by foreign troops like what japan did to china and korea?proplly none,the japanese troops were the most sick and perverted troops in the history of man kind,they did sick exprements on chinese and koreans in northeast of china the unit was called 731,they mass murdered childrens,innocent citizens of china and korea the most famous one is in nanjing,and your people are still proud of it till today,as one can see in the vist to the war criminal shirne the only time your citizens were killed was by the two atomic bombs which your people asked for it when the US told your country to stop the war.


i don't see german presentent or people visting war criminal shrines? i don't see italy doing it? why only japan? and why the presentent?

1. I don't recall saying the 2.5million died at the hands of the foreign soldiers
2. Where did you get that from? I presume you wrote it considering its full of assumptions and awful spelling.

WW2 Casualties

everything i worte were true there was a unit called 731 ,the japanese did mass murdered citizens in nanjing the japanese troops were perverted people








Unit 731
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Body disposal at Unit 731Unit 731 (731部隊) was a secret military medical unit of the Imperial Japanese Army that researched biological warfare and other topics through human experimentation during the Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) and World War II era. For information on its origin see Kempeitai Political Department and Epidemic Prevention Research Laboratory.

The unit was disguised as a water purification unit. It was based in Pingfan, near the city of Harbin in northeastern China, the region which was then part of the puppet state of Manchukuo. It is estimated that over 3,000 Chinese, Korean, and Allied POWs were killed in the Unit 731 facilities. Many more people died in Unit 731's field experiments.

There were other units besides Unit 731, which serves as a general term in describing the Japanese biological warfare program. Other units include Unit 543 (Hailar), Unit 773 (Songo unit), Unit 100 (Changchun), Unit 1644 (Nanjing), Unit 1855 (Beijing), Unit 8604 (Guangzhou), and Unit 9420 (Singapore). The acts of Unit 731 are one of many major war crimes committed by the Imperial Japanese Army from the occupation of Manchuria in 1931 to the end of World War II in 1945.

After these laboratories were destroyed by the Japanese to hide their activities, many of the scientists involved went on to prominent careers in politics, academia and business. The United States granted amnesty, allowing these scientists to go unprosecuted in exchange for their experimentation data.







Formation
In 1932, Ishii Shiro and his men built the Zhongma Fortress, a prison on the outskirts of Harbin. In 1935 a jailbreak forced Ishii to shut down Zhongma Fortress. Ishii moved closer to Harbin at Pingfan to set up a new facility.

[edit]
Activities
A special project code-named Maruta used human beings for experiments. Test subjects were gathered from the surrounding population and were sometimes known as "logs" (maruta 丸太). This term was the result of the feeling of the scientists that killing a prisoner was the same as cutting down a tree. The test subjects ranged from infants, to old people, to pregnant women along with the baby. Many experiments were performed without the use of anesthetics because it was believed that it might affect the results.

[edit]
Vivisection
Live vivisections were performed on prisoners infected with various diseases; scientists would remove organs to study the effects of the disease on the human body.
Prisoners were amputated limb by limb to study blood loss.
Arms were cut off and reattached to opposite sides.
Limbs were frozen and sawed off.
Stomachs were surgically removed and the esophagus was reattached to the intestines.
Parts of the brain, lungs, liver, et cetera were taken out.
Vivisection of a pregnant woman (impregnated by one of the doctors) and the fetus.
(The accusation of experiments involving pregnant women is debatable. Although many experiments were performed to simulate battle-field injury and amputations, documentation of experiments involving women and children are scant and unreliable.)

[edit]
Weapons testing
Grenade tests used human targets at various distances and positions.
Flame throwers were tested on humans.
Bombs were tested on humans tied to stakes at various positions.
[edit]
Other experiments
Human subjects were deprived of food and water to study the effects and duration before death.
Prisoners were placed in pressurized chambers until they died.
Frostbite experiments were conducted on prisoners to determine how long humans can survive when exposed to extreme temperatures.
Temperature experiments were performed to determine the relationship between temperature, burns, and survival rate.
Prisoners were placed into centrifuges and spun until they died.
Animal blood was injected into humans.
Prisoners were bombarded with lethal doses of x-ray radiation.
Gas chambers tested chemical weapons on prisoners.
Air bubbles were injected into prisoners' bloodstreams to simulate a stroke.
Sea water was injected into prisoners to determine if it could be substituted for saline.
[edit]
Biological warfare
Japanese scientists tested the plague, cholera, smallpox, botulism, and other diseases on prisoners. Their research led to the development of the defoliation bacilli bomb and the flea bomb to spread the bubonic plague. Some of these bombs were designed with ceramic (porcelain) shells, proposed by Ishii Shiro in 1938. This enabled Japanese soldiers to launch multiple biological attacks by infecting agriculture, reservoirs, wells, and other areas with anthrax, fleas, and other deadly pathogens. Infected food supplies and clothing were dropped by planes in areas of China not occupied by Japanese forces.

[edit]
Members
Lieutenant-General Shiro Ishii
Lieutenant Colonel Ryoichi Naito
Dr. Masaji Kitano
Yoshio Shinozuka
Barone Ottavio
[edit]
Divisions
Unit 731 was divided into eight divisions.

Division 1: Research on bubonic plague, cholera, anthrax, typhoid, tuberculosis on live subjects. For this purpose a prison was constructed to contain around three to four hundred people.
Division 2: Research for biological weapons used on the field, in particular the production of devices to spread germs and parasites.
Division 3: Production of shells containing biological agents. Stationed in Harbin.
Division 4: Production of other miscellaneous agents.
Division 5: Training of personnel.
Division 6-8: Equipment, medical, and administrative units.
[edit]
Facilities

One of the buildings is open to touristsThe Unit 731 complex covered six square kilometers and consisted of more than 150 buildings. The facilities were very well designed making it hard to destroy them. Some of Unit 731's satellite facilities still remain and are open to tourists.

The complex contained various production facilities. It had around 4,500 containers for raising fleas, six giant cauldrons to produce various chemicals, and around 1,800 containers to produce biological agents. Approximately 30 kg of bubonic plague bacteria could be produced in several days.

Tens of tons of these biological weapons (and some chemical) were stored in various places in northeastern China throughout the war. The Japanese attempted to destroy every last evidence of the facilities after disbanding; however, this was not successful as evidence has occasionally harmed civilians even very recently. In particular, in August 2003, 29 people were hospitalized after a construction crew in Heilongjiang inadvertently dug up chemical shells that had been buried deep in the soil more than fifty years ago.

[edit]
Disbanding and the end of World War II

Information sign at the site todayIshii had wanted to use biological weapons in the Pacific conflict since May 1944, but his attempts were repeatedly foiled by poor planning and Allied intervention. When it was clear that the war would soon end, Ishii ordered the destruction of the facilities, and told his men "to take the secret to the grave." His Japanese troops blew the compound up in the final days of the war to destroy evidence of their experimentation. They also purposely released all the plague-infected animals. Chemicals were dumped into rivers or buried. Some of these chemicals continue to pollute China today.

The United States believed that the research data was valuable because the allies had never conducted this type of human experimentation. Also, the U.S. did not want any other nation, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons. Therefore, in exchange for the data, the United States did not charge the officers of Unit 731 with war crimes.

On the other hand, the Soviet Union relentlessly pursued the case and prosecuted several officials from the unit because many Russians were also tortured and experimented upon, along with Mongolians and Koreans. The officials were tried in the Khabarovsk War Crime Trials. However the Soviet Union also let off the criminals with a relatively light sentence, some believe after negotiating its own acquisition of the data.

Many former members of Unit 731 became part of the Japanese medical establishment. Dr Kitano Masaji led Japan's largest pharmaceutical company, the Green Cross. Others headed medical schools or worked for the Japanese health ministry.

[edit]
Politicization of history
Unit 731 activities are denied by right-wing nationalist Japanese historians, who say they are fabrications by Chinese propaganda. Meanwhile left-wing organizations have published histories of Unit 731 that stress the supposed cover-up by the US (in exchange for the data). As with many WWII topics (and the subsequent political debate) references to Unit 731 are omitted from many Japanese history textbooks. Some see this as evidence that, in modern Japan, revisionist history is part of the mainstream, which contributes to the perception that Japan has yet to accept full responsibility for the crimes of its past. Others point out that neither Chinese nor Allied wartime excesses are taught to Japanese children.

In late 1982, the Government of the People's Republic of China opened the Unit 731 War Crime Exhibition Museum in Harbin.

In 1997, 180 Chinese, either victims or the family of victims of Unit 731, sued the Japanese government for a full disclosure, apology and compensation.

In August 2002, the Tokyo District Court acknowledged the existence of Unit 731 and its biological warfare activities, but ruled that all compensation issues were settled by the Joint Communique of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China of September 29, 1972. However that document only mentions the renunctiation of reparations claims by the Chinese Government, not private individuals.

In 2000, the United States Congress passed the Japanese Imperial Government Disclosure Act to declassify most classified U.S. Government records about war criminals and crimes committed by the Japanese during World War II. As of 2003, this will be done through the Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group (IWG).

In 2005, Professor Keiichi Tsuneishi of Kanagawa University found, in the U.S. National Archives, declassified documents showing that the U.S. Government had purchased information gleaned from Unit 731's experiments. The officers in charge of Unit 731 were persuaded to provide the results with money, gifts, entertainment and a waiver of war crimes charges. The motivation for the purchase was the enhancement of the US's own biological warfare program, itself a part of the arms race with the Soviet Union.

[edit]
Cultural depictions and representations
Japanese author Morimura Seiichi published the book The Devil's Gluttony (悪魔の飽食) in 1981, followed by The Devil's Gluttony - A Sequel in 1983, which were the first Japanese language publications to reveal the dark history of Unit 731.
The Chinese movie Man Behind The Sun is a film about the atrocities committed by Unit 731.
Two episodes of the television show The X-Files weave Unit 731 into the series' complex alien abduction/government conspiracy mythology. In the episodes "Nisei" and "731", Japanese scientists who were given amnesty in the U.S. after World War II are said to be continuing their work in secret, experimenting with creating an alien-human hybrid, possibly as a weapon to be immune to biological weapons. The name of the doctor in charge of the secret Japanese group of former Unit 731 doctors, Takeo Ishimaru, and his alias, Shiro Zama, is an amalgamation of the name of the real head of Unit 731, Dr. Shiro Ishi.
The death metal band Vile have a song on their 2002 album Depopulate called Unit 731.
The 1974 Japanese Chambara film "Shurayukihime: Urami Renga" (English Title: "Lady Snowblood: Love Song of Vengeance") deals with secret Japanese military experiments with biological warfare on innocent civillians (in this case Japanese) following the Russo-Japanese War, and is viewed as a commentary of sorts on the Unit 731 biological warfare experiments.
[edit]
Related topics
Japanese war crimes
Manila Massacre
Nanking Massacre
Kaimingye germ Weapon Attack
Changde chemical weapon attack
Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945)
Sook Ching Massacre
Unit 100
War Crimes in Manchukuo







The Nanjing Massacre
killing children



a woman was raped and killed



wommen and childrens were killed



and how in the world would a soldier do this to an old woman??

I know about unit 731, that's not what I was talking about. I'm talking about your idiotic statements like 'your people are still proud of it'. You obviously know either no Japanese people or just blatant d!ckheads.

I find it outrageous and appaling that your people committed these acts and yet your here telling us that were stupid for having a backbone and saying something about it. You must be one of those di*kheads your referring to.

Huh? Have you read anything I've said? I'm not telling you you're stupid for saying something about it.........I was saying it is unlikely Koizumi is going to the shrine to honour the war criminals

Since you seem to have all the answers why don't you enlighten us and tell everybody on this website here what the appropriate way to act is regarding past atrocities. Lets just say Japan was invaded by China and the atrocties were committed by us. How would you feel if we visited chinese war criminals? What would you say? Most importantly how would you go about expressing your emotions over this without sounding like a broken record?

I don't recall saying the fact that the war criminals names are on the list is correct. In fact I'd rather they were removed so don't make assumptions about my opinions.

Thats very nice but you didn't answer my questions?

Hmmm.........in general it wouldn't bother me so much, the past is the past. As for the war criminals, I don't agree with that anyway. Expressing my opinion about it.....I wouldn't go out of my way to bring the subject up but if someone wanted to discuss it I'd discuss it.

"Hmmm.........in general it wouldn't bother me so much"

^Care to elaborate on that. Because with all due respect I think your just feeding me a bunch of crock right now. I hardly fail to believe you when you tell me that you wouldn't care that much if the situation was reversed. Look at the hiroshima and nagasaki bombings it would seem from personal interviews and televised specials as well as public opinion that the japanese were extremly bothered by that ALOT. Alot of them even believe that it was over excessive force used by the americans so could you imagine the kind of reaction we would get if we were the ones that invaded you guys and do you understand why I don't belive you when you tell me that it wouldn't have bothered you that much..

Well tell me then how much would it bother you if its not that much???

^
It's something I wouldn't be able to change. I'm not the kind of person who would get angry about something I can't change, it's a waste of both my time and energy. People need to learn from their mistakes but if they no-one moves on they will never have the chance to learn from them.

As for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, I feel sorry for the Japanese that died but I don't harbor any animosity towards Americans because of it. Granted I don't agree with what happened but I can't change it.

the world we have today is build upon the past.
are you saing thoes people are just hounouring dead citizens?a guy with half of brain would know what they are doing and they intentions are.

look at what thoes senior citizens were doing in the shrine and you calling this not hounuring war criminals? why is there class a war criminals in the shrine?


honouring kamikaze fighters

Statue of Kamikaze Fighter, entrance of the Yasukuni Shrine Museum, Tokyo



and this

still marching in the yasukuni shrine

^ As far as I'm aware soldiers and war criminals aren't the same thing. I'm not aware of how they defined the war criminals as being so though

I think what you fail to understand is from the chinese standpoint were not trying to get you to change anything. All we like is "recognition" of the deeds that were committed. You said it yourself that "People need to learn from their mistakes" but then again how are you ever suppose to do that when you can't even come to grips with what you did.

Its very easy for you to say its a waste of time and energy for you to keep thinkink to the past but that obviously wasn't the case with the japanese since they seemed to enjoy very much doing what they did. I myself feel sorry for the "innocent" japanese civilians that died but at the same time I've never denied the bombings happened???

thoes who dead weren't soldier more like animals. a real soldier doesn't rape women enslave women as sex slave,mass killing innocent childrena nd women. whats the difference between a japanese soldier and a war criminal? nothing difference, one is in commond and the others fellows.

^ I highly doubt every Japanese soldier agreed with what was going on
I wonder if it says anywhere how they defined them as being war criminals though, that would be interesting.


This is exactly what I mean, all this 'you' crap. You can't group all Japanese together and assume they all think none of this ever happened just because the government is choosing to be idiotic about the situation. I'm sure I've had this exact same discussion with you before.........

I say "you" because "you" have yet to prove to me that you feel differently from the government. Your not exactly making a great case for yourself in distinguishing your beliefs and morals from the japanese government. The japanese people were pretty susceptible to the propaganda fed to them by the army and its government 68 years ago whats to make us believe there still not that way now. Prove me wrong!

I don't see how considering we had a pretty lengthy discussion on the entire topic last time. I don't particularly feel like copying the entire thing out if all I'm going to do is repeat myself. Considering I don't live in Japan and I'm not 100% Japanese I highly doubt my opinions are anything like those of the government depending what you are referring to.
I'm not making a case for myself, I have nothing to prove to you

Maybe we did have this discussion before Im sorry if I don't remember but all Im trying to get is a better idea from you possibly on why there is still so much ignorant people in power in your country. And you say your opinions are not anything like those of the government but we already know thats not true considering you said "soldiers and war criminals aren't the same thing"????? They both served under the same ruthless dictatorship only difference is some of them were more twisted and violent then others??? Thats the only difference I can think of. Just my opinion though..

Like I said before I doubt that all the Japanese soldiers agreed with what was happening. Anyway as for the previous conversation this is the link:
Same old

Like I said before too you can say whatever you want you are entitiled to your opinion Im not mad at you .I just want to gain more insight into the psyche of the average japanese citizen in japan by discussing with you the possible reasons for this lack of acknowledgement of past atrocities.

Thanx for the link though.

Then read over the previous conversation, but like I've said before I wasn't born in Japan and I'm half Japanese As far as the average japanese citizen's opinion I can only judge that from those I've met in Japan.

I have read over the past conversations and like this conversation it isn't exactly answering any of my questions either.

Then list your questions and I'll try and answer them

Are you serious? What do you think you and I have been conversating for for the last hour?

Then what questions are you saying haven't been answered?

you can honor soldiers but you don't honor war criminals. is it so hard to remove these 1k war criminals? lol

Since you asked for a list of questions Im going to give it to you.

1)Why is it so hard for the government to bury there war criminals in a different location?

2)If you don;t think the government is being ignorant in denying this atroctiy then why does it still continue to be pushed aside and ignored for this generation of japanese?

3) What are your thoughts and ideas on dealing with this situtation in a positive and frank way?

1. No idea, only the government would know.
2. The atrocity being visiting the shrine? I presume the current generation feels that Koizumi is there for the citizens not for the war criminals.
3. Remove the names of the war criminals from the list.

I thought that maybe you would've gone alittle more indepth but thats fine. Thank you.

^ Well this is pretty much going over old ground

You were the one that asked me to shoot with the questions I did so don't reply by saying that your shortness of your answers is because this has already been debated. Like I said before you at least answered the questions it seems alittle half a** but whatever. Thank you anyways..

that's what wars mean.

I agree with Takashi

They should have nuked Tokyo first

^ lol they're not stupid, that wouldn't have benefited the US.