Full Version: WHY DO HMONG CHRISTIAN PROTRAY SHAMAN SO EVIL?
DON'T THE BIBLE TEACH THEM TO ACCEPT ALL DIFFERENCES?
cuz it's the devil's trick 
The problem is once know a little, claim to know too much. Lack of acceptance, education and flexiblility..
you could be asking the same question as to why homosexuality is not accepted by the church.
I'm actually a christian and raised as a christian. I really don't mind what religion any one is in. I do see that alot of christian people they detest the ones who are not and stll do the jinglebells heheh. But I strongly feel that people are free to believe what they feel is right for them. With the old religion I believe it's based on asestors that they worship not the devil or anything like that. So I mean, it's really not a bad thing. Every one believes in watz good for them and whatz not. Ne whose does any one agree wi me? HEHEHEHHE
Never heard of that..portraying shaman evil???!!!...But you can say the same thing about why do shamans portray christians dumb?..same thing...it's a vise versa effect.
Because christians are dumb...the facts speaks for itself, brotha. To convert thinking that we don't have our own spiritual beliefs, I say that's dumb. 
Just put yourself in their place. I don't mean to criticize christians but a 100% faith in belief of something does make everything else seem bad. "God is my savior." When you have that much faith it's like you want others to not fall into the hands of the devil. Think about it, if not god then who else? In the bible it states something like god should be the only one to show our love to. The else thought of it usually brings us to a fiery image of a red guy holding a pitchfork. (Muah hahahahaha!)
Anyway, in their quest to save others from the "devil" they believe that every other religion is wrong. Sorry if I sound biased but if there really was a god. He/she will be like a mother/father to us all. Mother/father should realize that what we do is up to us as we keep our morals. Shamanism isn't about worshipping the devil, it's about honoring our ancestor's spirits and having the ability to talk to spirits. Only the evil in the hearts of men order spirits to do evil deeds. My family is shaman and we still believe that there is god and only one god.
My point is christians want to "save" those who are not christian and in their beliefs of saving... they have blindly SINNED.
Anyway, in their quest to save others from the "devil" they believe that every other religion is wrong. Sorry if I sound biased but if there really was a god. He/she will be like a mother/father to us all. Mother/father should realize that what we do is up to us as we keep our morals. Shamanism isn't about worshipping the devil, it's about honoring our ancestor's spirits and having the ability to talk to spirits. Only the evil in the hearts of men order spirits to do evil deeds. My family is shaman and we still believe that there is god and only one god.
My point is christians want to "save" those who are not christian and in their beliefs of saving... they have blindly SINNED.
QUOTE(DatWonGai @ Nov 22 2005, 12:07 AM)
Just put yourself in their place. I don't mean to criticize christians but a 100% faith in belief of something does make everything else seem bad. "God is my savior." When you have that much faith it's like you want others to not fall into the hands of the devil. Think about it, if not god then who else? In the bible it states something like god should be the only one to show our love to. The else thought of it usually brings us to a fiery image of a red guy holding a pitchfork. (Muah hahahahaha!)
Anyway, in their quest to save others from the "devil" they believe that every other religion is wrong. Sorry if I sound biased but if there really was a god. He/she will be like a mother/father to us all. Mother/father should realize that what we do is up to us as we keep our morals. Shamanism isn't about worshipping the devil, it's about honoring our ancestor's spirits and having the ability to talk to spirits. Only the evil in the hearts of men order spirits to do evil deeds. My family is shaman and we still believe that there is god and only one god.
My point is christians want to "save" those who are not christian and in their beliefs of saving... they have blindly SINNED.
Anyway, in their quest to save others from the "devil" they believe that every other religion is wrong. Sorry if I sound biased but if there really was a god. He/she will be like a mother/father to us all. Mother/father should realize that what we do is up to us as we keep our morals. Shamanism isn't about worshipping the devil, it's about honoring our ancestor's spirits and having the ability to talk to spirits. Only the evil in the hearts of men order spirits to do evil deeds. My family is shaman and we still believe that there is god and only one god.
My point is christians want to "save" those who are not christian and in their beliefs of saving... they have blindly SINNED.
for once that was well said
they just hate hmong ppls for NOT believing in GOD...
What's a Shamanism...?
QUOTE(Donovan @ Nov 28 2005, 01:19 PM)
What's a Shamanism...?
in my opinion it is not really a religion but more of a cultural practice not religion...
QUOTE(photonicism @ Nov 30 2005, 09:22 AM)
QUOTE(Donovan @ Nov 28 2005, 01:19 PM)
What's a Shamanism...?
in my opinion it is not really a religion but more of a cultural practice not religion...
Do you guys believe in this stuff....?
Hmong Christians are overly believing it. They even said they can't eat raw meat where in the bible, there's not even any thing about not being able to eat meat. I'm guessing those portraying shamnism as a bad thing doesnt' know much about Christianity
I was also raised as a christine and never portrayed any shaman as evil, most of my friends are also shamans. I never she it where i go either, maybe its just some people, but yeah i do see christine people try to "convert" other hmong people into christine but i don't think its because they think that they're dumb.
But for me personally, any sort of religion isn't really true weather its christine, shamanism, or any other religion. I think that its just there so that people would be good and not act so bad. If you really read the bible, its says something like if a lady is on her period, she can't leave her house, and if she does the man must walk 5 steps in front of her ringing a bell yelling unclean to let the world know that she's on her period. But you don't she that happening today, theres alot of thing in the bible that is quite strange, but your suppose to follow it, supposelly if your a christine. So all you christine ladies, get a bell ready.
But for me personally, any sort of religion isn't really true weather its christine, shamanism, or any other religion. I think that its just there so that people would be good and not act so bad. If you really read the bible, its says something like if a lady is on her period, she can't leave her house, and if she does the man must walk 5 steps in front of her ringing a bell yelling unclean to let the world know that she's on her period. But you don't she that happening today, theres alot of thing in the bible that is quite strange, but your suppose to follow it, supposelly if your a christine. So all you christine ladies, get a bell ready.
have you niggas seen KINGDOM OF HEAVEN staring orlando bloom. the movie is about christiananity and muslims killing each other...the movie focuses on how your faith or religion gives you the strength to kill, in other words, GOD gives people strength to kill other people who dont believe in christ. and the movie talks bout how christianity was MOST SUPERIOR...but unfortunatly at the end of the movie, the muslin army annilated the christian army and took over jerusalem......my point...I fu-kEN HATE CHRISTIANANITY!!, WHERE WAS GOD WHEN THE HALOCOUST WIPED OUT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF JEWS, WHERE WAS HE DURING RWANDA, WHERE WAS HE DURING 9'11, god is a psycological means to premote good in person. thats it. the end. 
my fahter's a shaman, and i myself do believe in the "old" religion...it's not like we worship the devil or anything..we still hold some of the same values like christians do...like not killing people or whatever..it pisses me off when a person thinks their religion is the ONLY religion that should be followed and revered..i mean everyone is unique...and well..yeah.....some christains are VERY closed-minded indeed!! i don't mean to sound like a christain hater or anything...i have friends who are christians...but i do respect their religion and would just like to have the same respect for my religion too...
so many people have asked me this question before.."does it really work?"
my answer is that the religious rituals or ceremonies really do work...i mean it really does..it's not bull $hit like some christians think it is!!!
it jsut pisses me off when some christians are soo freakin arrogant about Christ...i'm not saying that it's bad or anything like that..but just to keep the eccentricity down a little bit....
Shamanism is quite an interesting religion or practice just as buddhism or muslim OR christianity is...
100% Shamanism *^^*
so many people have asked me this question before.."does it really work?"
my answer is that the religious rituals or ceremonies really do work...i mean it really does..it's not bull $hit like some christians think it is!!!
it jsut pisses me off when some christians are soo freakin arrogant about Christ...i'm not saying that it's bad or anything like that..but just to keep the eccentricity down a little bit....
Shamanism is quite an interesting religion or practice just as buddhism or muslim OR christianity is...
100% Shamanism *^^*
[quote=Donovan,Nov 30 2005, 12:23 PM]
in my opinion it is not really a religion but more of a cultural practice not religion...
[/quote]
Do you guys believe in this stuff....?
[/quote]
Do Christians believe in God? Or all that Noah's Ark and Jesus stuff? Of course Hmong people believe in thier religion otherwise we would all be Christians, Catholics, and Mormons...Anyways, it doesn't matter what people say, religion is religion, who cares what that person or this person believes in, as long as they have a belief.
in my opinion it is not really a religion but more of a cultural practice not religion...
[/quote]
Do you guys believe in this stuff....?
[/quote]
Do Christians believe in God? Or all that Noah's Ark and Jesus stuff? Of course Hmong people believe in thier religion otherwise we would all be Christians, Catholics, and Mormons...Anyways, it doesn't matter what people say, religion is religion, who cares what that person or this person believes in, as long as they have a belief.
To believe and to know are 2 different things.
For a fact, we do not know that god exists but we believe it. With every belief comes a risk to take. Miracles and curses... you hear about them but do you know for sure that they're real. Some things are hard to believe but they are real. Just because your eyes and your ears can't see or hear... it doesn't mean there's nothing there. Demons and angels... all those crap you hear about and you still don't believe, it doesn't mean that they're not real.
The Hmong religion and Christianity are no different from each other in beliefs. We all believe in god, or in our words (roughly translated) leader of the heavens. We hear about our ancestors that tells stories of spirits and monsters... and heck even bigfoot. It's not so different when Christians talk about demons and angels. Even the devil (the leader of the underworld or hell) has its own place in our stories. The only difference is that in our practice in Shamanism we look towards the spirits for help. In Christianity, they ask the all mighty lord, god, for help. And when we Hmong refer to as sky we mean the heavens. (Where god is.) I have no point for this paragraph but just to clear up some understandings.
There are those who shame the name of god with violence... I'm still not getting it to my head why that is. Though, I believe in god and spirits also... I believe most that the outcome of our decisions is within our souls. We decide to do good or bad, it is not for god to decide for us. We do not own god so we can't look up as though we carry him/her as our property. We look to god for help and for guidance, but for whatever reason of good or evil... it's still the person's choice and not god's. If god is truly evil and good, it's important that we stand up against the evil and promote the good. Yes, I will fight god if I have to.
Sorry if this is too long, got carried away.
For a fact, we do not know that god exists but we believe it. With every belief comes a risk to take. Miracles and curses... you hear about them but do you know for sure that they're real. Some things are hard to believe but they are real. Just because your eyes and your ears can't see or hear... it doesn't mean there's nothing there. Demons and angels... all those crap you hear about and you still don't believe, it doesn't mean that they're not real.
The Hmong religion and Christianity are no different from each other in beliefs. We all believe in god, or in our words (roughly translated) leader of the heavens. We hear about our ancestors that tells stories of spirits and monsters... and heck even bigfoot. It's not so different when Christians talk about demons and angels. Even the devil (the leader of the underworld or hell) has its own place in our stories. The only difference is that in our practice in Shamanism we look towards the spirits for help. In Christianity, they ask the all mighty lord, god, for help. And when we Hmong refer to as sky we mean the heavens. (Where god is.) I have no point for this paragraph but just to clear up some understandings.
There are those who shame the name of god with violence... I'm still not getting it to my head why that is. Though, I believe in god and spirits also... I believe most that the outcome of our decisions is within our souls. We decide to do good or bad, it is not for god to decide for us. We do not own god so we can't look up as though we carry him/her as our property. We look to god for help and for guidance, but for whatever reason of good or evil... it's still the person's choice and not god's. If god is truly evil and good, it's important that we stand up against the evil and promote the good. Yes, I will fight god if I have to.
Sorry if this is too long, got carried away.
wow, there are a lot of christain haters in here. i'm a shamanist, btw, so don't trash me. anyways, i don't know what to say. honestly both sides hate each other. i seen hmong christains hate on hmong shamanists and i've seen hmong shamanists hate on hmong christains...the only thing i can say is...hmong don't like unity.
QUOTE(white_tiger @ Dec 11 2005, 11:06 AM)
I fu-kEN HATE CHRISTIANANITY!!, ....god is a psycological means to premote good in person. thats it. the end.
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
QUOTE(flyin15sec @ Feb 15 2006, 06:03 PM)
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
no, not really, thats no what i had in mind...its good to have good people around.
Here, let me be a mystic for a moment.
God is all around us... good intentions are naturally who we are. Though, my days spent traveling the world and seeing this world... there's more darkness than there is light that surrounds us. And those darkness are what makes us turn bad. We know that it is bad... but we still do it because it's that darkness controls us. Those darkness can be labeled has devilish, demonic/demons and evil. If you can't feel remorse for doing something bad... then you're not being human enough. All of us... is filled with the light (goodness) but every day that we spend around darkness it clings on to us. There are theories that you can know these demons from dreams, either they're monsters, demonic figures, shadows... and even the shape of animals. (usually dogs and cats)
It's important that we recognize our own doings and to question if it's us or is it some other force.
By the way, some Christians have no right to bear the name of Christ because if they're worse than I am about moral ethics... uh... 'nough said.
God is all around us... good intentions are naturally who we are. Though, my days spent traveling the world and seeing this world... there's more darkness than there is light that surrounds us. And those darkness are what makes us turn bad. We know that it is bad... but we still do it because it's that darkness controls us. Those darkness can be labeled has devilish, demonic/demons and evil. If you can't feel remorse for doing something bad... then you're not being human enough. All of us... is filled with the light (goodness) but every day that we spend around darkness it clings on to us. There are theories that you can know these demons from dreams, either they're monsters, demonic figures, shadows... and even the shape of animals. (usually dogs and cats)
It's important that we recognize our own doings and to question if it's us or is it some other force.
By the way, some Christians have no right to bear the name of Christ because if they're worse than I am about moral ethics... uh... 'nough said.
QUOTE(DatWonGai @ Feb 16 2006, 11:26 PM)
By the way, some Christians have no right to bear the name of Christ because if they're worse than I am about moral ethics... uh... 'nough said.
What people often fail to see and reconize is the fact that just because someone claims that they are a Christian, it doesn't mean they are one. It takes more than just going to church and professing that you are one.
Christianity, as with other religions, takes DAILY struggles with sin, not just on Sundays. If you're succumbing to sin daily and then washing it away on Sunday, sorry, you aren't a Christian.
Another myth people misunderstand, both from Christians and non, is bad habits. Drinking is not a sin. Heck Jesus drank wine, and we all know wine has alcohol in it. But drinking excessively can lead to "sin", that's adultery, robbery, etc. When someone is less in control of himself, they will sin more often.
Clothing. Wearing a mini skirt is not a sin. But by wearing a mini skirt, you can send a kind of message that can lead to sin. Same with baggy / loose pants, knit hats, etc. Best advice is abstinance.
I hear all the animist cry out "hipocrasy" constantly on this board, look this Christian did this and that..Well they aren't a Christian if they are sinning are they? I don't care if its the Pope, the President, Joe Bob your neighbor, or your cousin Tou, If you molest, rape, kill, steal, you aren't a Christian.
You have what 50million or so Chrirstians in the US. Well I can say that the number of actual Christians is alot less than that. And no I'm not a Christian.
i was talking with someone once and that person said to me that sometimes he feels that the followers of christianity and of muslim religion are very similar...
(he's not a christian/catholic, muslim, or shamanist)
after reading these posts, i'm just glad there are open-minded church goers as well as shamanists.
(he's not a christian/catholic, muslim, or shamanist)
after reading these posts, i'm just glad there are open-minded church goers as well as shamanists.
This is one of the biggest problems in my life most my friends are christians and i am not shamanism my family is i dont believe in those stuff but if the church teaches so many good things why dont it teach the kids who attend it to accept other religions too. Is christianity getting greedy? the other day one of my buddies was dissing the way the shamans do their healings and you know those stuff and even though i am not shamanism i still felt bad for them
I think the church is teaching the wrong things to the kids....
I think the church is teaching the wrong things to the kids....
Has always being that way, people are just too ignorant to notice it. They've forgotten who their ancestors were...
mann...this thread here just is getting very entertaining by the minute...hmm...the last time i checked...yeah...still entertaining...likewise the other ones too...about this subject matter 
Folks, it's time ya wake up. Regardless of what you beleive in, it pretty much end with the same result. Unless your one of those vampire freak or represent that tray 6. Most religion beleive in a better after life or recarnation. It's the fondation to help keep you living a good life. Christ. beleive in going to heaven and Sha. beleave you will go to the land of the dead to reunite with other families that has pass on. Maybe that's a Hmong heaven.??? Only time will till so for now live a good life. Word! 
My parents practice Shaman, and I married a Christian guy. I love the Christian way and everything, I'm proud to say that I am an active church member. However, it used to get on my nerves whenever I would be asked to be a part of something important in the church and my mother in law would go around telling everyone that I came from a non-Christian background...I guess therefore I'm not qualified to be a part of anything important. I don't understand why she did that, but you know what??? I don't care anymore, I love my Hmong people no matter what they practice. I still go and help my parents whenever they have Shaman ceremonies and yes, I eat the food they cook there also 
...why would you judge anyone? Doesn't the bible tell you not to judge people? I don't know, but darn I could write a whole book about this subject...Just try to l live right by you!
...why would you judge anyone? Doesn't the bible tell you not to judge people? I don't know, but darn I could write a whole book about this subject...Just try to l live right by you!
QUOTE(flyin15sec @ Feb 15 2006, 06:03 PM)
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
So are you saying Christians are the only "good" people left?
QUOTE(flyin15sec @ Feb 15 2006, 05:03 PM)
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
not all christians are "good"
wow i thought the topic was how much christians hate shamans
but after reading all your post...the topic should be "how much shamans hate christians"
i just wanna say dont stereotype us christians. i dont stereotype shamans. look at us as individuals because thats what we are "individuals"
if your christian friend did something to you..dont come hollering at me or anyone else. i dont do that to you guys
so far i havent seen any christians saying the they hate shamans or anything
plus if you guys wanna debate or talk about religion then put it in the debate section please
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
So are you saying Christians are the only "good" people left?
well actually there are no good people on earth because everyone sins
and sin = death
but because we are christians we are forgiven
dont wanna preach but thats what we believe.
but after reading all your post...the topic should be "how much shamans hate christians"
i just wanna say dont stereotype us christians. i dont stereotype shamans. look at us as individuals because thats what we are "individuals"
if your christian friend did something to you..dont come hollering at me or anyone else. i dont do that to you guys
so far i havent seen any christians saying the they hate shamans or anything
plus if you guys wanna debate or talk about religion then put it in the debate section please
QUOTE(flyin15sec @ Feb 15 2006, 06:03 PM)
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
QUOTE(HlubKojIbleeg1 @ Mar 13 2006, 12:01 PM)
So are you saying Christians are the only "good" people left?
well actually there are no good people on earth because everyone sins
and sin = death
but because we are christians we are forgiven
dont wanna preach but thats what we believe.
QUOTE(vintage @ Dec 9 2005, 10:22 AM)
Hmong Christians are overly believing it. They even said they can't eat raw meat where in the bible, there's not even any thing about not being able to eat meat. I'm guessing those portraying shamnism as a bad thing doesnt' know much about Christianity
That is not true. Not every Hmong Christian is against eating raw meat....I'm a christian and in my religion, we are allowed to eat whatever we want....
love this topic..this gett everyone one who believer of god or shamanins..attention..espeically in atown..
but to say..im a believer of shaman..and i think everyone have it rights to believe there own beliefs
but to say..im a believer of shaman..and i think everyone have it rights to believe there own beliefs
QUOTE
I was also raised as a christine
Sorry this made me chuckle.
^ ahahahaha...we have a CHRISTINE in the house!!! just kidding...ahahaha...funny though...
OK PEOPLE!!! CHECK THIS OUT! the quotes down below are my favorite ahahahahaha...
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
i must be a bad person then:D?
i'm just teasing...
There are theories that you can know these demons from dreams, either they're monsters, demonic figures, shadows... and even the shape of animals. (usually dogs and cats)
oh my...all my nightmares are dreaming of mad dogs chasing me!!! am i being chased by demons? that's a scary thought though...
This is one of the biggest problems in my life most my friends are christians and i am not shamanism my family is i dont believe in those stuff but if the church teaches so many good things why dont it teach the kids who attend it to accept other religions too. Is christianity getting greedy? the other day one of my buddies was dissing the way the shamans do their healings and you know those stuff and even though i am not shamanism i still felt bad for them
I think the church is teaching the wrong things to the kids....
hmm...good point there...
So are you saying Christians are the only "good" people left?
which you replied to FLYIN15SEC...ahahaha...mann...i was saying that too!!!
i just wanna say dont stereotype us christians. i dont stereotype shamans. look at us as individuals because thats what we are "individuals"
but because we are christians we are forgiven
ok...first sentence...some people just like to judge a whole group by a flaw caused by a person that belongs to that group...but yes...i am truly greatful there are people like you and i mean it!
second sentence...so that must mean those who are non-christians would not be forgiven? hmm...ok...*shrugg* yeah...*ahem* sorry i just find that kinda ehh...bleh...but
so...it's still interesting up till this day...but to be on topic...
*warning: tone of voice is sarcastic in the following paragraph*
WHY DO HMONG CHRISTIAN PROTRAY (should be portray) SHAMAN SO EVIL? because the shamans or txiv neeb deals with DEMONS and demons are bad and EVIL...because the shaman cooperates with the DAB...they bribe the DAB with all these stuff like pigs, chicken, cow, ect. that we would SLAUGHTER not "sacrifice"...so therefore it is WHOLLY cruel and inhumane to SLAUGHTER "innocent" animals...
anyhow...now here's this...the real thing...because some "christians" don't take time in being open-minded about other religions...such as shamanism...they tend to feel and believe that their religion is superior above all others...and of course vice versa...there are those who feel and believe that their own religion is superior above all others...not just christians...anyhow...back to what i was saying...some just don't take thier time in being open-minded and so they start to label the belief of shamanism "evil" and "bad" simply because when they hear the term "DAB"--which is often related to shamanism--and when the term "dab" is used...people that doesn't know the exact usage would assume it the general "dab"...meaning they think it's literally "MONSTER"...i mean...when hmong people use the term "dab" they are reffering to either "monster" or "bad/evil spirits"...and in this case...in shamanism...the term "dab" is used as bad/evil spirits...and the when "dab" is used as "monsters" is when little kids say, "kuv ntshai ntshai dab." meaning, "i'm scared of monster." so anyhow...whatever...
i really don't want to offend anyone but i just have to say this because i want to...
ok...the first people to adopt christianity were the white people...so...through out history from the beginning of time (before and after) the 13 colonies were colonized blah blah blah...white people believe they are superior above all others...therefore everything that they do is the "RIGHT" way and christianity is the right religion to believe and follow...therefore...white who believe they're superior...makes christianity to be viewed as superior as well...blah blah blah...i feel that it's because of this factor people often feel that christianity is superior above all other beliefs...which i can't blame them for doing so...i mean...i can careless...i'm not a really big believer of religions and stuff...i mean...i help my parents when they do rituals and ceremonies and all those "neng" stuff...but heck...what do i know about it? i hardly know most of the stuff...alls i know is why this and that ceremony is being performed or what not...and what the instruments used are for...i mean...believe what you wanna believe...believe what you feel is right for you...believe it until you die...no one has the right to tell you that their religion is better than yours and you have no right to say that your religion is right either...i mean...i already said this in this other thread in the "non-serious hmong chat room"...dr. terry yang recited what his teacher told him when he was younger, "religion is like a cake. if you eat it from that side, it is good; and it you eat it from the other side, it is still good." so ok...i think i should really quit now my gosh i "LOVE" this topic...
(damn they freakin limit the emotion icons you used too??? what the hell!!??)
OK PEOPLE!!! CHECK THIS OUT!
the quotes down below are my favorite ahahahahaha...QUOTE(flyin15sec @ Feb 15 2006, 06:03 PM)
Your point is you "HATE" good people?!
i must be a bad person then:D?
i'm just teasing...QUOTE(DatWonGai @ Feb 16 2006, 11:26 PM)
There are theories that you can know these demons from dreams, either they're monsters, demonic figures, shadows... and even the shape of animals. (usually dogs and cats)
oh my...all my nightmares are dreaming of mad dogs chasing me!!! am i being chased by demons
? that's a scary thought though...QUOTE(xaixai @ Mar 2 2006, 01:42 PM)
This is one of the biggest problems in my life most my friends are christians and i am not shamanism my family is i dont believe in those stuff but if the church teaches so many good things why dont it teach the kids who attend it to accept other religions too. Is christianity getting greedy? the other day one of my buddies was dissing the way the shamans do their healings and you know those stuff and even though i am not shamanism i still felt bad for them
I think the church is teaching the wrong things to the kids....
hmm...good point there...
QUOTE(HlubKojIbleeg1 @ Mar 13 2006, 12:01 PM)
So are you saying Christians are the only "good" people left?
which you replied to FLYIN15SEC...ahahaha...mann...i was saying that too!!!
QUOTE(darkrillen @ Mar 30 2006, 01:06 PM)
i just wanna say dont stereotype us christians. i dont stereotype shamans. look at us as individuals because thats what we are "individuals"
but because we are christians we are forgiven
ok...first sentence...some people just like to judge a whole group by a flaw caused by a person that belongs to that group...but yes...i am truly greatful there are people like you and i mean it!
second sentence...so that must mean those who are non-christians would not be forgiven? hmm...ok...*shrugg* yeah...*ahem*
sorry i just find that kinda ehh...bleh...but so...it's still interesting up till this day...but to be on topic...
*warning: tone of voice is sarcastic in the following paragraph*
WHY DO HMONG CHRISTIAN PROTRAY (should be portray) SHAMAN SO EVIL? because the shamans or txiv neeb deals with DEMONS and demons are bad and EVIL...because the shaman cooperates with the DAB...they bribe the DAB with all these stuff like pigs, chicken, cow, ect. that we would SLAUGHTER not "sacrifice"...so therefore it is WHOLLY cruel and inhumane to SLAUGHTER "innocent" animals...
anyhow...now here's this...the real thing...because some "christians" don't take time in being open-minded about other religions...such as shamanism...they tend to feel and believe that their religion is superior above all others...and of course vice versa...there are those who feel and believe that their own religion is superior above all others...not just christians...anyhow...back to what i was saying...some just don't take thier time in being open-minded and so they start to label the belief of shamanism "evil" and "bad" simply because when they hear the term "DAB"--which is often related to shamanism--and when the term "dab" is used...people that doesn't know the exact usage would assume it the general "dab"...meaning they think it's literally "MONSTER"...i mean...when hmong people use the term "dab" they are reffering to either "monster" or "bad/evil spirits"...and in this case...in shamanism...the term "dab" is used as bad/evil spirits...and the when "dab" is used as "monsters" is when little kids say, "kuv ntshai ntshai dab." meaning, "i'm scared of monster." so anyhow...whatever...
i really don't want to offend anyone but i just have to say this because i want to...
ok...the first people to adopt christianity were the white people...so...through out history from the beginning of time (before and after) the 13 colonies were colonized blah blah blah...white people believe they are superior above all others...therefore everything that they do is the "RIGHT" way and christianity is the right religion to believe and follow...therefore...white who believe they're superior...makes christianity to be viewed as superior as well...blah blah blah...i feel that it's because of this factor people often feel that christianity is superior above all other beliefs...which i can't blame them for doing so...i mean...i can careless...i'm not a really big believer of religions and stuff...i mean...i help my parents when they do rituals and ceremonies and all those "neng" stuff...but heck...what do i know about it? i hardly know most of the stuff...alls i know is why this and that ceremony is being performed or what not...and what the instruments used are for...i mean...believe what you wanna believe...believe what you feel is right for you...believe it until you die...no one has the right to tell you that their religion is better than yours and you have no right to say that your religion is right either...i mean...i already said this in this other thread in the "non-serious hmong chat room"...dr. terry yang recited what his teacher told him when he was younger, "religion is like a cake. if you eat it from that side, it is good; and it you eat it from the other side, it is still good." so ok...i think i should really quit now
my gosh i "LOVE" this topic...(damn they freakin limit the emotion icons you used too??? what the hell!!??)
wow, this is my first time on this site and this was the first subject that caught my eyes. I have to say that there are a lot of people here with different opinions. I like that! I have to say that this is kind of an intense discussion. First I have to say that I am a christian and proud to be one. I have a really deep background in the bible and christianity. I have also seen and expereince shamain religion as well but I am going to say straight out that I don't know much. I don't hate any other beliefs that people believe. First off, I want to say that hmong churches are totally different or just a little different than the other CMA churches. (chrisntain missionary alliance) I have attended white churches in the past and I have attended hmong churches also and still do. I don't see why there are so many people who thinks that christian people aren't open minded. In the hmong churches and american churches what i see different is that hmong churches still carry their old traditions. Hmong beliefs such as respecting the elders, I know that some old hmong people don't really like to listen to a young paster or so. Hmong churches aren't all that bad. I would have to say that christians aren't bad b/c when you look around the world their are so many missionaries that help out the poor and also teach the gospel of the bible. So where are all the shamains and helping out their race. When I went to visit thailand about 4 summers ago I went to visit the hmong villiage and the people their were really nice. I kind of felt bad that with all my advangtages in america I should be really lucky. Back to the subject about thailand, i heard that their was a missionary that got caught in Laos and got killed. Just to let you know that Laos is communist and don't really like missionaries all that much. If I have to say that the one religion that helps out our people are christians. I don't see any shamains doing this either. I know that there are some churches and christians that don't seem to be like christians but I want you to not limit your judgement about christians solely based on a few people or a church. To really understand a religion one must have study the the reiligion and not just hear this and that from some one else. It takes time to understand and to learn. I know that the bible is really hard to understand b/c it was for me too. I have been going to church since i could remember and I am still learning. I am sorry if I sound like I am picking only one religion and sticking up for it, but I don't know much about an other religion so I don't want to say something that might offend them.
i'm sick of this kind of stuff.. 
i don't even want to think about it..makes my brians hurts..
i don't even want to think about it..makes my brians hurts..
QUOTE(drycreek @ Apr 4 2006, 02:17 AM)
If I have to say that the one religion that helps out our people are christians. I don't see any shamains doing this either.
first statement:
good for you, but why so?
i'm just teasing...you don't need to answer it...like i said...everyone's gonna think their religion is better so there's no need to reason...because all answers turn out the same anyway second statement:
ok...that's because they are two different beliefs...just like two individual can't be exactly the same...anyhow...i shouldn't reason with this too...again...everyone's gonna think their religion is better...don't deny it...yall know that there's that little something in you saying that, "my religion is better than yours."
some enlightment?:
let me correct all of you hmong folks...shamanism is not a religion...which i just found out recently (damn!)...the hmong peoples' religion is animism ["a belief in all spirits including spirits of the dead as well as spirits that are not originalted from human background" (Nide and Smalley, 1959)], but they practice shamanism ["a form of practice in the beliefs of animism: a visionary tradition, an ancient practice for utilizing altered states of conciousness to contact the gods and spirits of the natural world" (Drury 1989)]. so when someone ask you what religion you follow...those who say "shamanism"...you say, "I follow Animism but practice Shamanism."
anyhow *sigh* that was all...
QUOTE(white_tiger @ Dec 11 2005, 11:06 AM)
have you niggas seen KINGDOM OF HEAVEN staring orlando bloom. the movie is about christiananity and muslims killing each other...the movie focuses on how your faith or religion gives you the strength to kill, in other words, GOD gives people strength to kill other people who dont believe in christ. and the movie talks bout how christianity was MOST SUPERIOR...but unfortunatly at the end of the movie, the muslin army annilated the christian army and took over jerusalem......my point...I fu-kEN HATE CHRISTIANANITY!!, WHERE WAS GOD WHEN THE HALOCOUST WIPED OUT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF JEWS, WHERE WAS HE DURING RWANDA, WHERE WAS HE DURING 9'11, god is a psycological means to premote good in person. thats it. the end.
Hey white tiger,
Why are you so negative? I bet christiananity is not the only thing you hate? Why question where God is duing these evil events? What is good for you is not necessary good for other. Everything God create has a purpose. People like you is the reason why God sent His only son to the cross. Have you pay attention to the wonders of God when a woman is giving birth or how the earth is revolving in the giant solar system? How a child is created in nine months and have life inside of a woman is the wonder of God almighty. Do you know that without the earth atmosphere or ozone layer we will all die. Do you know that if the earth is too close to the moon there will be giant tidal wave. How come you don't thank God for holding the universe in a precise position so you and me don't die? We don't have the ability to understand the one that created us. God has a purpose for everything. Things that you and I can't never understand. It is not for us to understand. We just need to accept it. We are all God's children and when He calls your name to serve Him you will not be able to refuse. Look at the Apostle Paul, he prosecutes christian until God change him. He became a faithful servant of God and wrote most the book in the new testament.
QUOTE(flyin15sec @ Feb 22 2006, 01:01 PM)
What people often fail to see and reconize is the fact that just because someone claims that they are a Christian, it doesn't mean they are one. It takes more than just going to church and professing that you are one.
Christianity, as with other religions, takes DAILY struggles with sin, not just on Sundays. If you're succumbing to sin daily and then washing it away on Sunday, sorry, you aren't a Christian.
Another myth people misunderstand, both from Christians and non, is bad habits. Drinking is not a sin. Heck Jesus drank wine, and we all know wine has alcohol in it. But drinking excessively can lead to "sin", that's adultery, robbery, etc. When someone is less in control of himself, they will sin more often.
Clothing. Wearing a mini skirt is not a sin. But by wearing a mini skirt, you can send a kind of message that can lead to sin. Same with baggy / loose pants, knit hats, etc. Best advice is abstinance.
I hear all the animist cry out "hipocrasy" constantly on this board, look this Christian did this and that..Well they aren't a Christian if they are sinning are they? I don't care if its the Pope, the President, Joe Bob your neighbor, or your cousin Tou, If you molest, rape, kill, steal, you aren't a Christian.
You have what 50million or so Chrirstians in the US. Well I can say that the number of actual Christians is alot less than that. And no I'm not a Christian.
You sound like very smart person. Don't mislead other when you talk about sin and you're not sure what sin is. There is no such thing as almost a sin, little sin, or a sin zone. There is on gray area. You either sin or not. If you are not a christian and you don't live according to the bible (the law) then all you can do to measure sin is through the laws of men. If you want to know what God consider is sin use the laws in the bible. God's laws and the laws of men are not the same. How do you define christian?
QUOTE(xaixai @ Mar 2 2006, 01:42 PM)
This is one of the biggest problems in my life most my friends are christians and i am not shamanism my family is i dont believe in those stuff but if the church teaches so many good things why dont it teach the kids who attend it to accept other religions too. Is christianity getting greedy? the other day one of my buddies was dissing the way the shamans do their healings and you know those stuff and even though i am not shamanism i still felt bad for them
I think the church is teaching the wrong things to the kids....
What do you mean church teaching the wrong things? How do you know? Do you go to church? If this is only your opinion then go and talk to three other elders. Go visit three other churches. If they all preach and teach the same then you need to re-evaluate you thinking. Teaching in the church can only be wrong if it is not about God. In church should be teaching about God and praising & rejoicing God. Can you tell me what happen to you if you die today? Is this important to you? Or you just do't care. If you don't then none of your comment means anything, meaningless.
QUOTE(sure-thing @ Mar 10 2006, 10:02 AM)
My parents practice Shaman, and I married a Christian guy. I love the Christian way and everything, I'm proud to say that I am an active church member. However, it used to get on my nerves whenever I would be asked to be a part of something important in the church and my mother in law would go around telling everyone that I came from a non-Christian background...I guess therefore I'm not qualified to be a part of anything important. I don't understand why she did that, but you know what??? I don't care anymore, I love my Hmong people no matter what they practice. I still go and help my parents whenever they have Shaman ceremonies and yes, I eat the food they cook there also
...why would you judge anyone? Doesn't the bible tell you not to judge people? I don't know, but darn I could write a whole book about this subject...Just try to l live right by you!God is proud of you. I totally understand your situation. It is not easy walking on the road of God. It is sometime narrow and quiet but I encourage, God is holding your hand even during the roughtest time.
QUOTE
second sentence...so that must mean those who are non-christians would not be forgiven? hmm...ok...*shrugg* yeah...*ahem* sorry i just find that kinda ehh...bleh...but
oh well we believe that we are forgiven and jesus paid for our sins therefor at the end of days we will be with
God in his new world that he creates
QUOTE
ok...the first people to adopt christianity were the white people...so...through out history from the beginning of time (before and after) the 13 colonies were colonized blah blah blah...white people believe they are superior above all others...therefore everything that they do is the "RIGHT" way and christianity is the right religion to believe and follow...therefore...white who believe they're superior...makes christianity to be viewed as superior as well...blah blah blah...i feel that it's because of this factor people often feel that christianity is superior above all other beliefs...
wow you gotta look at christians in a different view
christian is not a "white" religion and it didnt originate from white people
thats a bad assumption
i dont really look at the shaman as evil but i scared as heck when they do the neng stuff
the special ones where they try to drives demons/spirits out is scary
you know those excorcist ones.
just the fact that your dealing with demons/spirits is scary enough
i guess if your looking for the one thing that gets me about shamans that i see alot is
you can do all the bad you want...steal,beat up, lie, kill, curse,blah blah blah
then you can get away with it just by killing a pig or cow then its back to your daily things again
im not saying that all shamans do this but a good bunch does...mostly the younger generations i've seen
QUOTE(darkrillen @ Apr 4 2006, 03:08 PM)
i guess if your looking for the one thing that gets me about shamans that i see alot is
you can do all the bad you want...steal,beat up, lie, kill, curse,blah blah blah
then you can get away with it just by killing a pig or cow then its back to your daily things again
*gasp* that is not true! you hurt me
...shamans only act as a doctor and a bridge (to the spirit realm)...a shaman does not forgive like how god does because he's just a human being that has the power to heal (hence that's why he do neng to call back their soul when they're ill). he is not a god!!! and it is "lub ntuj" (which is my god plus "daim av") to determine the fate of an individual who have committ a crime or so...meaning it's karma...sure...one can do all the bad things they want and can get away with it...but not by shamans performing rituals or ceremonies...again, shamans are only human beings who are acting as doctors...and when NENG take place...it is certainly not an act of riding off sins...it is an act to bring back an individual's soul or "ntsuj plig" to his or her body...who ever told you that DOING NENG is an act to rid sins??? and it's not killing we sacrifice...it's not like we're slaughtering the animals just for the heck of it like how slaughtering houses do...when we sacrifice the animals we thank his soul and pay him for helping...hence animism...
QUOTE(darkrillen @ Apr 4 2006, 03:08 PM)
wow you gotta look at christians in a different view
christian is not a "white" religion and it didnt originate from white people
thats a bad assumption
i forgot this part...so enlighten me?
don’t know if its true or not but there’s a book called the "davinci code" and in the book it tells that Jesus never died for our sins, in fact the book even insist on Jesus having descendents living up to this day, Jesus being crucifix and all that is one BIG cover up, "BIGGEST cover up since man kind".
^ ou...this is certainly off topic but yes...there are much negative talks about this issue...there's a movie which casts that one dude...oh my gosh i totally forgot his name anyhow a movie based on that book is being reconsidered if it should be release or not...because yeah...i guess it hurts too much to see a religion being looked down on...like when that one movie "passion of the christ" or something like that (only saw a clip of it...though i'd like to see all of it!) was released yeah...many people got offended...and of course people would get offended because if their religion gets hurt by other it hurts...and we all know that...we only do that in here...not out of ignorance itself but also out of pride too...oh and i'm sure of it...
QUOTE(yangholiday @ Apr 5 2006, 12:21 AM)
don’t know if its true or not but there’s a book called the "davinci code" and in the book it tells that Jesus never died for our sins, in fact the book even insist on Jesus having descendents living up to this day, Jesus being crucifix and all that is one BIG cover up, "BIGGEST cover up since man kind".
Why do you believe something that is made up like the davinci code but not the real documentation of history like the bible? Everyone knows that the davinci code is all a hoax. The davanci code is the same the holy blood holy grail book. Nowday we, as human, like to hear lies more than the truth.
QUOTE(photonicism @ Nov 18 2005, 12:47 PM)
DON'T THE BIBLE TEACH THEM TO ACCEPT ALL DIFFERENCES?
Do you believe just that little portion of the bible or the whole bible? It also says that love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul, and strenght. Thy shall not worship no other god but me (God). Is it because christian think shaman so evil is that they deals with the devil? Do you consider vodo a evil or good thing? What about people that practice witchcraft? If you hear someone talking and dealing with the evil spirit then it is evil stuff. Christian consider anything that deals with the devil is evil. That does not mean that chritian hate the people that practice evil act. Just a thought, how come some family just stop doing this shaman thing and they can still live their live normally? What is going to happend to you if you don't practice this shaman thing every year? I have a relative that became very ill and no matter how many shaman ceremony is perform her condition remains unchange. Doctor diagnose it to be depression disorder. What is the purpose of shaman anyway? Does it propel you to a goal?
QUOTE(darkrillen @ Apr 4 2006, 01:08 PM)
oh well we believe that we are forgiven and jesus paid for our sins therefor at the end of days we will be with
God in his new world that he creates
wow you gotta look at christians in a different view
christian is not a "white" religion and it didnt originate from white people
thats a bad assumption
i dont really look at the shaman as evil but i scared as heck when they do the neng stuff
the special ones where they try to drives demons/spirits out is scary
you know those excorcist ones.
just the fact that your dealing with demons/spirits is scary enough
i guess if your looking for the one thing that gets me about shamans that i see alot is
you can do all the bad you want...steal,beat up, lie, kill, curse,blah blah blah
then you can get away with it just by killing a pig or cow then its back to your daily things again
im not saying that all shamans do this but a good bunch does...mostly the younger generations i've seen
Sorry to say Darkillen but you definately contradict yourself in your response. Bad argument! You shouldn't tell a person to view things the way you do; especially when it's an issuse based on reglion. Since everyone isn't brought up the same way, not everyone sees and portrays God the way you do. You state, "i dont really look at the shaman as evil but i scared as heck when they do the neng stuff," definately contradicted yourself as a good Christian. Isn't God the savior? Therefore, he should be your almighty one and you shouldn't be afraid of anything else including the Devil, and especially not the Shamans. You also said, "the special ones where they try to drives demons/spirits out is scary you know those excorcist ones." Isn't the Excorcist based on a Priest's job? And that my dear, this is another contradictory statement of Christianity.
OKKAAYYY, so you also said, "one thing that gets me about shamans that i see alot is you can do all the bad you want...steal,beat up, lie, kill, curse,blah blah blah then you can get away with it just by killing a pig or cow then its back to your daily things again," where did you get such a statement? Is it an actual fact or is it just something that you concluded yourself? You say it as if Christians commit no wrong doings. We're all humans, and as you know it, no one is created perfectly, so don't judge people based on your first instinct. And if it's that easy to get away with all those crimes as you mentioned, then wouldn't all the criminals and murderers become Shamans to "get away"? Hahahahaha, and what cracks me up the most is your last line..."im not saying that all shamans do this but a good bunch does...mostly the younger generations i've seen". WOAH, you must be around really corrupted people that's all I have to say!
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