Full Version: Do you know any East Timorese?
Just curious...hows ur relation?
Hi JMAC. I know an East Timorese, Maria Christina Carrascalao, who studied political science here in University of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia. She is the daughter of Manuel Carrascallao, leader of a prominent mestizo clan in East Timor. She is very friendly towards Indonesians, in fact the gang she hang out with are mostly Indonesians, Malaysians, and Omanis.
That's because most of East Timorese students here in Brisbane at least, used to study in Indonesian universities. Maria studied in University of Indonesia in Jakarta, and participated in the student demonstrations in 1998 that overthrew Suharto. I think she was in the executive committee of Forkot, a student organisation. Some other East Timorese in Brisbane that I've spoken with used to study in ITS Surabaya and Universitas Pancasila Jakarta. They speak Indonesian very well (with great Jakarta Betawi accent)
East Timorese here are much friendly to Indonesians than other nationalities, I guess because we have similar culture and they know our language well. There is no enmity whatsoever against Indonesians amongst the East Timorese, at least with those who lived under Indonesian rule, though I heard East Timorese who lived in exile (in Australia, Portugal, Angola, Mozambique) during the 25-year period are pretty hostile towards Indonesians.
That's because most of East Timorese students here in Brisbane at least, used to study in Indonesian universities. Maria studied in University of Indonesia in Jakarta, and participated in the student demonstrations in 1998 that overthrew Suharto. I think she was in the executive committee of Forkot, a student organisation. Some other East Timorese in Brisbane that I've spoken with used to study in ITS Surabaya and Universitas Pancasila Jakarta. They speak Indonesian very well (with great Jakarta Betawi accent)
East Timorese here are much friendly to Indonesians than other nationalities, I guess because we have similar culture and they know our language well. There is no enmity whatsoever against Indonesians amongst the East Timorese, at least with those who lived under Indonesian rule, though I heard East Timorese who lived in exile (in Australia, Portugal, Angola, Mozambique) during the 25-year period are pretty hostile towards Indonesians.
Hmmm .. thats great mas, i had quite the opposite experiance actually, but it was only once. 
QUOTE (sido @ Nov 18 2005, 08:59 PM)
Hmmm .. thats great mas, i had quite the opposite experiance actually, but it was only once.
I feel sorry for your unpleasant experience, my dear
But, I think we cannot blame East Timorese people if they hate us so bad. We murdered hundreds of thousands of their people.
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
aww.. that's so childish.. obviously you never met any east timorese in your short life, boy.
actually, east timorese are quite friendly fellows, and those who've lived under indonesia generally like hanging out with indonesians, just like they way they did when they were students in jakarta or surabaya..
QUOTE (purnomor @ Nov 19 2005, 12:44 AM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
aww.. that's so childish.. obviously you never met any east timorese in your short life, boy.
actually, east timorese are quite friendly fellows, and those who've lived under indonesia generally like hanging out with indonesians, just like they way they did when they were students in jakarta or surabaya..
I am curious........
How can East Timor people be friendly to us after we slaughtered hundreds of thousands of their people with cold blood?
^ LOL you are so childish and naive, my boy..
isn't that a myth, indonesia "slaughtering" hundreds of thousands of east timorese. while in 1974 (before indonesia came) there were 500,000 east timorese, and in 2000 (after indonesia leave) there were one million east timorese.
so, the truth is, under indonesia, the improvement in health actually doubles the amount of east timorese people. no wonder east timorese who lives under indonesia knows this truth and are very freidnly towards indonesians
isn't that a myth, indonesia "slaughtering" hundreds of thousands of east timorese. while in 1974 (before indonesia came) there were 500,000 east timorese, and in 2000 (after indonesia leave) there were one million east timorese.
so, the truth is, under indonesia, the improvement in health actually doubles the amount of east timorese people. no wonder east timorese who lives under indonesia knows this truth and are very freidnly towards indonesians
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
QUOTE (sido @ Nov 18 2005, 08:59 PM)
Hmmm .. thats great mas, i had quite the opposite experiance actually, but it was only once.
I feel sorry for your unpleasant experience, my dear
But, I think we cannot blame East Timorese people if they hate us so bad. We murdered hundreds of thousands of their people.
why ? I didnt kill anyone and neither did mas pur or you (i hope) ! why should they hate me so badly, do you hate japanese people ? I dont and my grandfather and his father and uncles fought and died against them.
It was just a bunch of uneducated group of east timorese that wanted to look for trouble. To bad they are the only group I have ever had contact with. Im sure if i had contact with a more educated group it would have been a different experiance, that is why i included the fact that i only ever got in contact with east timorese people 'once'.
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 19 2005, 05:59 AM)
QUOTE (sido @ Nov 18 2005, 08:59 PM)
Hmmm .. thats great mas, i had quite the opposite experiance actually, but it was only once.
I feel sorry for your unpleasant experience, my dear
But, I think we cannot blame East Timorese people if they hate us so bad. We murdered hundreds of thousands of their people.
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
They don't hate us. I think it's just politics. I know some Timorese really well. They're friendly. I can't believe I would walk away from them just because other people we don't know are fighting/killing. You don't seem like you've had much or even any experience with them. I think everything is blown out of proportion, when you speak...
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 19 2005, 06:52 AM)
QUOTE (purnomor @ Nov 19 2005, 12:44 AM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
aww.. that's so childish.. obviously you never met any east timorese in your short life, boy.
actually, east timorese are quite friendly fellows, and those who've lived under indonesia generally like hanging out with indonesians, just like they way they did when they were students in jakarta or surabaya..
I am curious........
How can East Timor people be friendly to us after we slaughtered hundreds of thousands of their people with cold blood?
Who's 'we', you and your military/captain/medic father?
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...
2
QUOTE (purnomor @ Nov 19 2005, 12:55 AM)
^ LOL you are so childish and naive, my boy..
isn't that a myth, indonesia "slaughtering" hundreds of thousands of east timorese. while in 1974 (before indonesia came) there were 500,000 east timorese, and in 2000 (after indonesia leave) there were one million east timorese.
so, the truth is, under indonesia, the improvement in health actually doubles the amount of east timorese people. no wonder east timorese who lives under indonesia knows this truth and are very freidnly towards indonesians
isn't that a myth, indonesia "slaughtering" hundreds of thousands of east timorese. while in 1974 (before indonesia came) there were 500,000 east timorese, and in 2000 (after indonesia leave) there were one million east timorese.
so, the truth is, under indonesia, the improvement in health actually doubles the amount of east timorese people. no wonder east timorese who lives under indonesia knows this truth and are very freidnly towards indonesians
A myth , huh?
We always make mistakes, but we never admitt the mistakes we made. We deny all kinds of our bad deeds because we are too coward to take the responsibility.
Actually, our friend Sirrikittong from Thailand forum who gave the information about 200 thousands East Timor people who were slaughtered by us when we occupied their country.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47128
QUOTE
Subject: AP: Truth hearings recalling Indonesian brutality conclude in East Timor
Truth hearings recalling Indonesian brutality conclude in East Timor
November 21, 2003 2:23am AP Online All
A witness Friday recounted seeing Indonesian troops and their militia proxies shooting and stabbing terrified refugees in a church in East Timor in 1999 during violence that swept the territory when it voted for independence.
The testimony at the East Timor Commission for Reception, Truth & Reconciliation occurred on the final day of a series of hearings here aimed at exposing the horrors _ and healing the wounds _ of Indonesia's bloody occupation of the territory.
The hearing comes after efforts to bring Indonesian suspects to trial over the massacres have largely failed, and East Timor's leaders have said they do not favor convening an international tribunal to bring them to justice.
Herminia Mendes said she saw Indonesian troops and police, along with scores of militia proxies, attack Liquica church on April 6, 1999, where hundreds of refugees were sheltering.
"My guess is there were about 60 or 70 dead bodies spread every where," she said. "I saw with my eyes the dead bodies were taken in a truck, but I do not know where they were taken," the 37-year-old told the commission.
Her testimony, one of a series since Wednesday about massacres in East Timor since 1975, was aired on national television and radio.
Commission organizers say the hearings are part of efforts by the tiny nation to come to terms with its violent past and publicly record the atrocities committed by Indonesian troops and their local proxies.
The testimonies could also be used in later prosecution of those responsible, but this is considered unlikely.
A special Indonesian rights court convened last has been widely criticized as a sham because it convicted only six of 18 Indonesian military and government officials. All remain free pending their appeals.
Last year, the court acquitted an Indonesian soldier of charges he failed to prevent the Liquica massacre.
Indonesian officials have ignored indictments from East Timorese prosecutors.
Moreover, East Timor's President Xanana Gusmao has made it clear he does not support calls for more efforts to bring those responsible to justice, saying the tiny country's relations with Indonesia were more important.
More than 1,000 people were killed before and after a 1999 referendum in which the East Timorese voted overwhelmingly for independence from 24 years of often brutal Indonesian occupation and, before that, more than four centuries of Portuguese colonial rule. Much of the half-island was destroyed in the 1999 violence.
Some estimates say as many as 200,000 East Timorese may have died during Indonesia's occupation as a result of military operations against the guerillas and starvation and disease.
Truth hearings recalling Indonesian brutality conclude in East Timor
November 21, 2003 2:23am AP Online All
A witness Friday recounted seeing Indonesian troops and their militia proxies shooting and stabbing terrified refugees in a church in East Timor in 1999 during violence that swept the territory when it voted for independence.
The testimony at the East Timor Commission for Reception, Truth & Reconciliation occurred on the final day of a series of hearings here aimed at exposing the horrors _ and healing the wounds _ of Indonesia's bloody occupation of the territory.
The hearing comes after efforts to bring Indonesian suspects to trial over the massacres have largely failed, and East Timor's leaders have said they do not favor convening an international tribunal to bring them to justice.
Herminia Mendes said she saw Indonesian troops and police, along with scores of militia proxies, attack Liquica church on April 6, 1999, where hundreds of refugees were sheltering.
"My guess is there were about 60 or 70 dead bodies spread every where," she said. "I saw with my eyes the dead bodies were taken in a truck, but I do not know where they were taken," the 37-year-old told the commission.
Her testimony, one of a series since Wednesday about massacres in East Timor since 1975, was aired on national television and radio.
Commission organizers say the hearings are part of efforts by the tiny nation to come to terms with its violent past and publicly record the atrocities committed by Indonesian troops and their local proxies.
The testimonies could also be used in later prosecution of those responsible, but this is considered unlikely.
A special Indonesian rights court convened last has been widely criticized as a sham because it convicted only six of 18 Indonesian military and government officials. All remain free pending their appeals.
Last year, the court acquitted an Indonesian soldier of charges he failed to prevent the Liquica massacre.
Indonesian officials have ignored indictments from East Timorese prosecutors.
Moreover, East Timor's President Xanana Gusmao has made it clear he does not support calls for more efforts to bring those responsible to justice, saying the tiny country's relations with Indonesia were more important.
More than 1,000 people were killed before and after a 1999 referendum in which the East Timorese voted overwhelmingly for independence from 24 years of often brutal Indonesian occupation and, before that, more than four centuries of Portuguese colonial rule. Much of the half-island was destroyed in the 1999 violence.
Some estimates say as many as 200,000 East Timorese may have died during Indonesia's occupation as a result of military operations against the guerillas and starvation and disease.
I feel shame as an Indonesian
LOL again you show your childish naivity, my little boy.
I value your post with an F-minus for showing abscence critical thinking and poor analytical mindset.
The so-called "estimates" is nothing more but mythical separatist propaganda.
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
I hope your brain understand me, boy
Don't worry, boy. Since you are retarded, nobody will ever accept you as Indonesian.
It will be too shameful for us to have you as Indonesian, even my servant that never went to school shows more intelligence than you. That means you are not even exportable as TKI. If you're not capable to become a maid, what else can you be useful for?
It seems you're just a worthless boy not fit to become an Indonesian
I value your post with an F-minus for showing abscence critical thinking and poor analytical mindset.
The so-called "estimates" is nothing more but mythical separatist propaganda.
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
I hope your brain understand me, boy
QUOTE
I feel shame as an Indonesian
Don't worry, boy. Since you are retarded, nobody will ever accept you as Indonesian.
It will be too shameful for us to have you as Indonesian, even my servant that never went to school shows more intelligence than you. That means you are not even exportable as TKI. If you're not capable to become a maid, what else can you be useful for?
It seems you're just a worthless boy not fit to become an Indonesian
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 22 2005, 12:11 AM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...
2I CAN!!
It's so easy to identify a filipino..... It's just you guys that can't identify your countrymen from your neighbormen 2 I've met so many people who start conversations with me in Tagalog. Btw, East Timorese have this distinctive look that seperates them from the rest of Indonesians.
thanks for the input guys, just wanted to know how you feel about them.
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...2
I CAN!! It's so easy to identify a filipino..... It's just you guys that can't identify your countrymen from your neighbormen 2 I've met so many people who start conversations with me in Tagalog. Btw, East Timorese have this distinctive look that seperates them from the rest of Indonesians.
yeah its kinda hard to identify the average indonesian or filipino unless there's a very distinct feature..
QUOTE (anakjakarta84 @ Nov 22 2005, 05:27 AM)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 22 2005, 12:11 AM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...
2I CAN!!
It's so easy to identify a filipino..... It's just you guys that can't identify your countrymen from your neighbormen 2 I've met so many people who start conversations with me in Tagalog. Btw, East Timorese have this distinctive look that seperates them from the rest of Indonesians.yeah its kinda hard to identify the average indonesian or filipino unless there's a very distinct feature..
QUOTE (purnomor @ Nov 21 2005, 08:53 PM)
LOL again you show your childish naivity, my little boy.
I value your post with an F-minus for showing abscence critical thinking and poor analytical mindset.
The so-called "estimates" is nothing more but mythical separatist propaganda.
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
I hope your brain understand me, boy
Don't worry, boy. Since you are retarded, nobody will ever accept you as Indonesian.
It will be too shameful for us to have you as Indonesian, even my servant that never went to school shows more intelligence than you. That means you are not even exportable as TKI. If you're not capable to become a maid, what else can you be useful for?
It seems you're just a worthless boy not fit to become an Indonesian
I value your post with an F-minus for showing abscence critical thinking and poor analytical mindset.
The so-called "estimates" is nothing more but mythical separatist propaganda.
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
I hope your brain understand me, boy
QUOTE
I feel shame as an Indonesian
Don't worry, boy. Since you are retarded, nobody will ever accept you as Indonesian.
It will be too shameful for us to have you as Indonesian, even my servant that never went to school shows more intelligence than you. That means you are not even exportable as TKI. If you're not capable to become a maid, what else can you be useful for?
It seems you're just a worthless boy not fit to become an Indonesian
Why do you use personal attack again, purnomor?
If you disagree with my opinion, you can say your opinion.
But, you no need to do personal attack. Are you trying to provoke me?
Besides, moderator Batang Damo already gave us warning several times about this. I try hard not to do personal attack on you, but you keep doing personal attack on me.
QUOTE (JMAC @ Nov 22 2005, 06:40 PM)
thanks for the input guys, just wanted to know how you feel about them.
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...2
I CAN!! It's so easy to identify a filipino..... It's just you guys that can't identify your countrymen from your neighbormen 2 I've met so many people who start conversations with me in Tagalog. Btw, East Timorese have this distinctive look that seperates them from the rest of Indonesians.
yeah its kinda hard to identify the average indonesian or filipino unless there's a very distinct feature..
QUOTE (anakjakarta84 @ Nov 22 2005, 05:27 AM)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 22 2005, 12:11 AM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...
2I CAN!!
It's so easy to identify a filipino..... It's just you guys that can't identify your countrymen from your neighbormen 2 I've met so many people who start conversations with me in Tagalog. Btw, East Timorese have this distinctive look that seperates them from the rest of Indonesians.yeah its kinda hard to identify the average indonesian or filipino unless there's a very distinct feature..
Are you Flip? I know how my countrymen look like, but sometimes can mistake a Thai for a Flip. I can even sometimes tell which part of Indonesia they're from.
Indonesians and Filipinos do look similar. Same skin colour, same feature etc etc etc. But when I see a Flip face, I would feel like it's a foreign face. That's how I could tell if I see an Indo, but not too sure if I see a Flip or a Thai, Cambodian etc.
I know many Chinese (non-Indonesians) and Koreans, but only 2-3 Japanese. For this reason I can tell if someone is Chinese, Korean or Japanese. I'm so familiar with how Chinese look like and how Koreans look like that I can tell them apart. I could tell the Japanese only because the face seems foreign to me (neither Chinese nor Korean looking).
I have seen many Japanese in TV, but that's not enough to make me familiar with them. You have to be really close to them, to be able to distinguish. I think you guys just need to know more of your people's types of faces.
QUOTE (anakjakarta84 @ Nov 22 2005, 12:11 PM)
QUOTE (JMAC @ Nov 22 2005, 06:40 PM)
thanks for the input guys, just wanted to know how you feel about them.
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...2
I CAN!! It's so easy to identify a filipino..... It's just you guys that can't identify your countrymen from your neighbormen 2 I've met so many people who start conversations with me in Tagalog. Btw, East Timorese have this distinctive look that seperates them from the rest of Indonesians.
yeah its kinda hard to identify the average indonesian or filipino unless there's a very distinct feature..
QUOTE (anakjakarta84 @ Nov 22 2005, 05:27 AM)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 22 2005, 12:11 AM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 18 2005, 10:59 PM)
The best way is everytime we see East Timor people near us, I suggest all of us to walk away and avoid problems.
how will you know if the one you are meeting is an east timorese by look?
you cant even identify an indonesian from a filipino or malaysian...
2I CAN!!
It's so easy to identify a filipino..... It's just you guys that can't identify your countrymen from your neighbormen 2 I've met so many people who start conversations with me in Tagalog. Btw, East Timorese have this distinctive look that seperates them from the rest of Indonesians.yeah its kinda hard to identify the average indonesian or filipino unless there's a very distinct feature..
Are you Flip? I know how my countrymen look like, but sometimes can mistake a Thai for a Flip. I can even sometimes tell which part of Indonesia they're from.
Indonesians and Filipinos do look similar. Same skin colour, same feature etc etc etc. But when I see a Flip face, I would feel like it's a foreign face. That's how I could tell if I see an Indo, but not too sure if I see a Flip or a Thai, Cambodian etc.
I know many Chinese (non-Indonesians) and Koreans, but only 2-3 Japanese. For this reason I can tell if someone is Chinese, Korean or Japanese. I'm so familiar with how Chinese look like and how Koreans look like that I can tell them apart. I could tell the Japanese only because the face seems foreign to me (neither Chinese nor Korean looking).
I have seen many Japanese in TV, but that's not enough to make me familiar with them. You have to be really close to them, to be able to distinguish. I think you guys just need to know more of your people's types of faces.
right, filipinos are more handsome....
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 22 2005, 12:02 PM)
Why, purnomor?
If you disagree with my opinion, you can say your opinion.
If you disagree with my opinion, you can say your opinion.
Aww.. you're such a poor little boy.. what's wrong, you think you are better than my domestic servant? still dreaming you will be accepted as an indonesian?
And you are such a stupid little boy, you've just answered your question in the first line in the second line
I saw East Timorese ppl on TV & they look like part papuans or somethin & some of them have Portuguese blood in them
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 22 2005, 05:49 PM)
right, filipinos are more handsome....
I don't think so. My sister's friend is a Fil and he's just average
theres mestizo class structure in east timor? thats sad!!! what is the mestizo of east timor?
is it spanish mix with native?
or protugese mix with native?
is it spanish mix with native?
or protugese mix with native?
Portuguese mix with native.
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Nov 23 2005, 01:19 AM)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 22 2005, 05:49 PM)
right, filipinos are more handsome....
I don't think so. My sister's friend is a Fil and he's just average
then he is one of the ugliest here in the philippines,,,,,
2 2 2
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 23 2005, 02:30 AM)
then he is one of the ugliest here in the philippines,,,,, 2 2 2
2 2 2 Don’t be so sure. I said “average” because I tried to be polite not to say “ugly”
I have many east timorean friends here in australia
even during and after all the bull$hit the indonesian govt did to east timor we have remained friends
but then again, maybe they talk bad about me and indonesia behind my back lol
even during and after all the bull$hit the indonesian govt did to east timor we have remained friends
but then again, maybe they talk bad about me and indonesia behind my back lol
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Nov 23 2005, 02:48 AM)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 23 2005, 02:30 AM)
then he is one of the ugliest here in the philippines,,,,, 2 2 2
2 2 2 Don’t be so sure. I said “average” because I tried to be polite not to say “ugly”
in a bunch of handsome apples, there is always a rotten one...
LOL! 2
2
QUOTE (dalawapo @ Nov 23 2005, 01:25 AM)
theres mestizo class structure in east timor? thats sad!!! what is the mestizo of east timor?
is it spanish mix with native?
or protugese mix with native?
is it spanish mix with native?
or protugese mix with native?
Portuguese mixed with native. Under Portuguese rule, East Timor was a place for exiling political dissidents from Portugal. For instance, East Timorese FM Jose Ramos Horta is the son of a political dissident exiled there by the fascist dictatorship of Antonio Salazar. Now, I heard the politics of the new state is monopolised by mestizos as well, that's why Portuguese was made into the national language of East Timor, despite the fact that less than 5% of the population speak that language (East Timorese mostly speak Tetum and Indonesian).
However, I think my friend Chris Carrascalao's mother is from Kupang, West Timor. That's why she consider herself as half-Indonesian.
i knew quite many people from Kupang (in Timor island, but belongs to Indonesia), but i don't know any East Timorese at all. i don't know why. maybe it's just a coincidence.
btw, i have a netfriend in australia (she's Indonesian) & her husband is (was - he's an Australia citizen now) Timorese.
btw, i have a netfriend in australia (she's Indonesian) & her husband is (was - he's an Australia citizen now) Timorese.
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Nov 23 2005, 02:48 AM)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 23 2005, 02:30 AM)
then he is one of the ugliest here in the philippines,,,,, 2 2 2
2 2 2 Don’t be so sure. I said “average” because I tried to be polite not to say “ugly”
OooOOwww so nice mbak, always caring about peoples feelings
2
QUOTE (sido @ Nov 23 2005, 03:36 PM)
OooOOwww so nice mbak, always caring about peoples feelings 2
2 It’s my nature
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Nov 24 2005, 12:09 PM)
QUOTE (sido @ Nov 23 2005, 03:36 PM)
OooOOwww so nice mbak, always caring about peoples feelings 2
2 It’s my nature
oh reallly???
I don't know any East Timorese ... yet.
... yet.
QUOTE (Aranadhel @ Nov 23 2005, 11:31 PM)
oh reallly???
I thought you knew me
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Nov 24 2005, 02:29 PM)
QUOTE (Aranadhel @ Nov 23 2005, 11:31 PM)
oh reallly???
I thought you knew me
eheheheh.. seneng banget bercanda sama furan..
East Timor President Xanana Gusmao and his wife and children playing with an orangutan when they visited Indonesia Safari Park II Prigen at Pasuruan, East Java, October 16. Xanana and family also visited other tourism places in East Java such as Batu and Mount Bromo. (Foto ANTARA/str-Musyawir)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 23 2005, 10:11 AM)
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Nov 23 2005, 02:48 AM)
QUOTE (The Red Baron @ Nov 23 2005, 02:30 AM)
then he is one of the ugliest here in the philippines,,,,, 2 2 2
2 2 2 Don’t be so sure. I said “average” because I tried to be polite not to say “ugly”
in a bunch of handsome apples, there is always a rotten one...
but if the tree died, then they would all be rotten
QUOTE (purnomor @ Nov 21 2005, 08:53 PM)
LOL again you show your childish naivity, my little boy.
I value your post with an F-minus for showing abscence critical thinking and poor analytical mindset.
The so-called "estimates" is nothing more but mythical separatist propaganda.
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
I hope your brain understand me, boy
Don't worry, boy. Since you are retarded, nobody will ever accept you as Indonesian.
It will be too shameful for us to have you as Indonesian, even my servant that never went to school shows more intelligence than you. That means you are not even exportable as TKI. If you're not capable to become a maid, what else can you be useful for?
It seems you're just a worthless boy not fit to become an Indonesian
I value your post with an F-minus for showing abscence critical thinking and poor analytical mindset.
The so-called "estimates" is nothing more but mythical separatist propaganda.
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
I hope your brain understand me, boy
QUOTE
I feel shame as an Indonesian
Don't worry, boy. Since you are retarded, nobody will ever accept you as Indonesian.
It will be too shameful for us to have you as Indonesian, even my servant that never went to school shows more intelligence than you. That means you are not even exportable as TKI. If you're not capable to become a maid, what else can you be useful for?
It seems you're just a worthless boy not fit to become an Indonesian
Another personal attack from you, purnomor?
Why you always say in uncivilized way?
It is because your family is military, and military is famous of its barbaric acts?
Yes?
****************************
QUOTE
purnomor said:
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
The undeniable truth is, Portuguese census from 1970 (prior to Indonesian rule) found 610541 people living in East Timor, while UN census in 2000 (after Indonesian rule) found over than one million people in the territory. That means East Timorese population actually almost doubles under Indonesia.
It is impossible that "one-third" of the population were "killed" by Indonesia, since the fact is East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule. Even for a country with high population growth rate and very low death rate, doubling the population within 25 years is very rare. In fact, East Timorese people should thank Indonesia for lowering their infant mortality rate and greatly increasing their life expectancy.
East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule?
Really?
Can you give me the data/evidence?
Or, you just make it up?
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 27 2005, 06:40 PM)
East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule?
Really?
Can you give me the data/evidence?
Or, you just make it up?
Really?
Can you give me the data/evidence?
Or, you just make it up?
Don't worry, boy. I am not like you, I never make up anything.
I got the data from the book "Unied Nations Administration in East Timor"
http://library.uq.edu.au/search/X(timor)&S...DA&350%2C350%2C
QUOTE (purnomor @ Nov 27 2005, 08:22 PM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 27 2005, 06:40 PM)
East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule?
Really?
Can you give me the data/evidence?
Or, you just make it up?
Really?
Can you give me the data/evidence?
Or, you just make it up?
Don't worry, boy. I am not like you, I never make up anything.
I got the data from the book "Unied Nations Administration in East Timor"
http://library.uq.edu.au/search/X(timor)&S...DA&350%2C350%2C
I check the link you gave me above.
The problem is when I tried to access online, they don't allow me because I am not a student of Queensland University.
So, you just try to trick me, right ?
So, it is correct that barbaric military murdered 200 thousands East Timor people with cold blood.
Were your military parents involved in such barbaric acts, purnomor?
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Dec 26 2005, 01:23 PM)
QUOTE (purnomor @ Nov 27 2005, 08:22 PM)
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Nov 27 2005, 06:40 PM)
East Timorese population actually doubles under our rule?
Really?
Can you give me the data/evidence?
Or, you just make it up?
Really?
Can you give me the data/evidence?
Or, you just make it up?
Don't worry, boy. I am not like you, I never make up anything.
I got the data from the book "Unied Nations Administration in East Timor"
http://library.uq.edu.au/search/X(timor)&S...DA&350%2C350%2C
I check the link you gave me above.
The problem is when I tried to access online, they don't allow me because I am not a student of Queensland University.
So, you just try to trick me, right ?
Wrong, boy. I was educating you.
QUOTE
So, it is correct that barbaric military murdered 200 thousands East Timor people with cold blood.
Wrong again, my boy. It seems your math skills is very retarded.
Let me try to make it simple equations to accomodate your brain capacity:
East Timor pop 1970 = 610541
East Timor pop 2005 = 1040880
pop05/pop70= 1040880/610541 = 70.5% increase
Credibility of the "genocide" theory = 0% aka big bull$hit
I hope your brain understands this simple logic, boy
QUOTE
Were your military parents involved in such barbaric acts, purnomor?
Not only you are dumb, but you are very rude, boy.
For insulting my parents, you must give me an apology.
That's why you shouldn't bolosing all the time, boy.
Now you only become more idiot and more rude.
No wonder everybody are disgusted with you.
QUOTE
purnomor said on December 27, 2005 ABOVE:
Let me try to make it simple equations to accomodate your brain capacity:
East Timor pop 1970 = 610541
East Timor pop 2005 = 1040880
pop05/pop70= 1040880/610541 = 70.5% increase
Credibility of the "genocide" theory = 0% aka big bull$hit
I hope your brain understands this simple logic, boy
Let me try to make it simple equations to accomodate your brain capacity:
East Timor pop 1970 = 610541
East Timor pop 2005 = 1040880
pop05/pop70= 1040880/610541 = 70.5% increase
Credibility of the "genocide" theory = 0% aka big bull$hit
I hope your brain understands this simple logic, boy
I see.....
You gave me mumbo jumbo calculation without giving credible source. It is just your imagination, right purnomor?
On the contrary, I can give credible information below:
http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of-indonesia
QUOTE
EAST TIMOR
From 1596 to 1975, East Timor was a Portuguese colony on the island of Timor known as Portuguese Timor and separated from Australia's north coast by the Timor Sea. As a result of political events in Portugal, Portuguese authorities abruptly withdrew from East Timor in 1975. In local elections in 1975, Fretilin, a party partly led by Marxists, and UDT, a Party aligned with the local elite, emerged as the largest parties, having previously formed an alliance to campaign for independence from Portugal.
On December 7, 1975, Indonesia invaded East Timor. Probably Indonesia hoped, that in the unclear situation, it could annex the tiny country of (then) 680.000 people; and indeed, it could do so de facto: it got material and diplomatic support, as well as the necessary armaments from the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom. Reasons include oil and gas reserves, a strategic location as well as various trade and cheap labor related interests. In the early years of the occupation, the Indonesian military killed 200.000 people — through murder, forced starvation, and other means. The years of occupation were riddled with massacres, programs of forced sterilization, hunger, and attempts at cultural annihilation. Tens of thousands suffered tremendous hardships to survive and resist the occupation.
On August 30 1999, the people of East Timor voted overwhelmingly for independence in a UN-conducted popular consultation. About 99 percent of the eligible population participated; more than three quarters chose independence despite months of systematic terror and intimidation by the Indonesian military and its militia. After the result was announced, the Indonesian military and its militia retaliated by wreaking havoc on the country: murdering some 2,000 East Timorese, displacing two-thirds of the population, raping hundreds of women and girls, and destroying much of the country's infrastructure.
In October 1999, the Indonesian parliament (MPR) revoked the 1976 decree that annexed East Timor, and the United Nations Transitional Authority in East Timor (UNTAET) assumed responsibility for administering East Timor until became an independent nation in May 2002.
Do you have any shame, purnomor?
It is one of many genocides we do. We are no better than NAZI.
You military people dare to do massacree, rapes, looting, murders, corruption, but you military people deny all your barbaric acts !! Cowardly animals !!!
It is one of many reasons why many Indonesians abroad, including me, feel shame to say that we are Indonesians to foreigners.
Your barbaric military acts humiliate all Indonesians in the world, purnomor !!
I've lived abroad for quite sometime now, and I know a lot of Indonesian people here who lived even much longer than me. One thing all of us have in common: we never deny our homeland, we are very proud of Indonesia.
I may not know any Indonesian who pretend to be other nationalities, but the reverse is true here. I met a surprising number of white people here who proudly said 'my father is Indonesian' or something like that. Upon further inquiry, the father is actually Indonesian-born Dutch, but still very proud to be called Indonesian..still eating Nasi Goreng and cooking Bakmi and Sate or Gado-gado all this time. This after most of them getting booted by Sukarno in early 50's. Also, I met a lot of Acehnese refugee, most of them transfered from Malaysia - not Aceh- during the Malaysian sweep for illegal immigrants. This was pre-tsunami and pre-truce. I would think they would be hesitant about their nationality after what they've been through, but you know what? They still refer to themself as 'we - Indonesian'
I even participitated in a discussion when an East Timorese political figure came to town to talk about the possibility of building a new nation (the referendum was still in the process then). I was the only Indonesian in the forum, but would I 'pretend' I was from another country? Never!
Sure the military has done atrocities in the past- maybe even still today, what with all the conspiracy theories which worth a book of its own- but that part of history is really a very very tiny part of what makes one an Indonesian- would this make me any less proud to be an Indonesian? Never.
Would a Chinese citizen be ashamed of being Chinese because of what hapened during the Cultural Revolutions?
Would a German be ashamed of being German because of Hitler?
Would an American be ashamed of being American because they elected Bush Jr..you bet!2 j/k
We may loathe our government and its policies, but we always love our country. The former is only temporary, the latter will always be there no matter what. History is in the past for us to learn to build a better future, and denying our identity for a part of history that most of us has nothing to do .. is beyond comprehension and not to mention a regetful and shameful act.
Just my opinion.
I may not know any Indonesian who pretend to be other nationalities, but the reverse is true here. I met a surprising number of white people here who proudly said 'my father is Indonesian' or something like that. Upon further inquiry, the father is actually Indonesian-born Dutch, but still very proud to be called Indonesian..still eating Nasi Goreng and cooking Bakmi and Sate or Gado-gado all this time. This after most of them getting booted by Sukarno in early 50's. Also, I met a lot of Acehnese refugee, most of them transfered from Malaysia - not Aceh- during the Malaysian sweep for illegal immigrants. This was pre-tsunami and pre-truce. I would think they would be hesitant about their nationality after what they've been through, but you know what? They still refer to themself as 'we - Indonesian'
I even participitated in a discussion when an East Timorese political figure came to town to talk about the possibility of building a new nation (the referendum was still in the process then). I was the only Indonesian in the forum, but would I 'pretend' I was from another country? Never!
Sure the military has done atrocities in the past- maybe even still today, what with all the conspiracy theories which worth a book of its own- but that part of history is really a very very tiny part of what makes one an Indonesian- would this make me any less proud to be an Indonesian? Never.
Would a Chinese citizen be ashamed of being Chinese because of what hapened during the Cultural Revolutions?
Would a German be ashamed of being German because of Hitler?
Would an American be ashamed of being American because they elected Bush Jr..you bet!
2 j/kWe may loathe our government and its policies, but we always love our country. The former is only temporary, the latter will always be there no matter what. History is in the past for us to learn to build a better future, and denying our identity for a part of history that most of us has nothing to do .. is beyond comprehension and not to mention a regetful and shameful act.
Just my opinion.
Wulandari isn't an indonesian, we all know that. He won't understand your opinion. But I do. Very nice, rasibiduk.
QUOTE (furansizuka @ Jan 1 2006, 11:22 PM)
Wulandari isn't an indonesian, we all know that. He won't understand your opinion. But I do. Very nice, rasibiduk.
Makasih Furan- Wulandari bukan org Indo, toh? dasar oknum pencari gara-gara aja
Oh and to answer the original question: I actually met and knew a few fellow boyscouts from East Timor when I participated at the National Jamboree in Cibubur ages ages ago- but as time goes by we lost contact unfortunately.
QUOTE (rasibiduk @ Jan 1 2006, 04:20 PM)
I've lived abroad for quite sometime now, and I know a lot of Indonesian people here who lived even much longer than me. One thing all of us have in common: we never deny our homeland, we are very proud of Indonesia.
I may not know any Indonesian who pretend to be other nationalities, but the reverse is true here. I met a surprising number of white people here who proudly said 'my father is Indonesian' or something like that. Upon further inquiry, the father is actually Indonesian-born Dutch, but still very proud to be called Indonesian..still eating Nasi Goreng and cooking Bakmi and Sate or Gado-gado all this time. This after most of them getting booted by Sukarno in early 50's. Also, I met a lot of Acehnese refugee, most of them transfered from Malaysia - not Aceh- during the Malaysian sweep for illegal immigrants. This was pre-tsunami and pre-truce. I would think they would be hesitant about their nationality after what they've been through, but you know what? They still refer to themself as 'we - Indonesian'
I even participitated in a discussion when an East Timorese political figure came to town to talk about the possibility of building a new nation (the referendum was still in the process then). I was the only Indonesian in the forum, but would I 'pretend' I was from another country? Never!
Sure the military has done atrocities in the past- maybe even still today, what with all the conspiracy theories which worth a book of its own- but that part of history is really a very very tiny part of what makes one an Indonesian- would this make me any less proud to be an Indonesian? Never. Would a Chinese citizen be ashamed of being Chinese because of what hapened during the Cultural Revolutions?
Would a German be ashamed of being German because of Hitler?
Would an American be ashamed of being American because they elected Bush Jr..you bet!2 j/k
We may loathe our government and its policies, but we always love our country. The former is only temporary, the latter will always be there no matter what. History is in the past for us to learn to build a better future, and denying our identity for a part of history that most of us has nothing to do .. is beyond comprehension and not to mention a regetful and shameful act.
Just my opinion.
I may not know any Indonesian who pretend to be other nationalities, but the reverse is true here. I met a surprising number of white people here who proudly said 'my father is Indonesian' or something like that. Upon further inquiry, the father is actually Indonesian-born Dutch, but still very proud to be called Indonesian..still eating Nasi Goreng and cooking Bakmi and Sate or Gado-gado all this time. This after most of them getting booted by Sukarno in early 50's. Also, I met a lot of Acehnese refugee, most of them transfered from Malaysia - not Aceh- during the Malaysian sweep for illegal immigrants. This was pre-tsunami and pre-truce. I would think they would be hesitant about their nationality after what they've been through, but you know what? They still refer to themself as 'we - Indonesian'
I even participitated in a discussion when an East Timorese political figure came to town to talk about the possibility of building a new nation (the referendum was still in the process then). I was the only Indonesian in the forum, but would I 'pretend' I was from another country? Never!
Sure the military has done atrocities in the past- maybe even still today, what with all the conspiracy theories which worth a book of its own- but that part of history is really a very very tiny part of what makes one an Indonesian- would this make me any less proud to be an Indonesian? Never. Would a Chinese citizen be ashamed of being Chinese because of what hapened during the Cultural Revolutions?
Would a German be ashamed of being German because of Hitler?
Would an American be ashamed of being American because they elected Bush Jr..you bet!
2 j/kWe may loathe our government and its policies, but we always love our country. The former is only temporary, the latter will always be there no matter what. History is in the past for us to learn to build a better future, and denying our identity for a part of history that most of us has nothing to do .. is beyond comprehension and not to mention a regetful and shameful act.
Just my opinion.
I interested in your comments above (in red color).
The slaughters of East Timor is very very tiny in our history?
Wow !!
Tiny for whom ?
For you ? for me ? for Indonesians ?
Yes, it is !!
For East Timor people ?
I don't think so !!
I don't think East Timor people consider it is "tiny" if hundreds of thousands of their people were murdered, raped, looted, burned alive, by us.
what I meant was: Indonesian military history is just a tiny part of what constitutes one to be an Indonesian... if AT ALL.
To look for another example, Japanese barbaric militarism in WW II is almost non-relevant to the youths of Japan today, is it? Out of curiousity, I once asked a young Japanese if she ever heard the term 'Jugun Ianfu' and she just went blank.
And also, judging by your logic, EVERY single Dutch person or Japanese or Portuguese must be responsible for exploiting and killing MY countrymen? And I should inflict guilt everytime I met them, correct?
Kalau nggak ngerti2 juga...yah mau gimana lagi.
To look for another example, Japanese barbaric militarism in WW II is almost non-relevant to the youths of Japan today, is it? Out of curiousity, I once asked a young Japanese if she ever heard the term 'Jugun Ianfu' and she just went blank.
And also, judging by your logic, EVERY single Dutch person or Japanese or Portuguese must be responsible for exploiting and killing MY countrymen? And I should inflict guilt everytime I met them, correct?
Kalau nggak ngerti2 juga...yah mau gimana lagi.
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Jan 5 2006, 06:23 PM)
For you ? for me ? for Indonesians ?
LOL, unfortunately nobody else considers you as an Indonesian, boy
2QUOTE
For East Timor people ?
I don't think so !!
I don't think so !!
I don't think so, boy. Since Indonesia has injected massive subsidies each year for East Timor and have helped doubled its population, the East Timorese have no problems with Indonesians, as rasibiduk, furansizuka, and me found out. Even East Timorese President Xanana Gusmao is now best friend of General (Ret.) Wiranto. Gusmao wants to turn East Timor into an Indonesian vassal state.
Xanana Gusmao and General Wiranto, best buddies
about one or two months ago, MetroTV choose "Jembatan Airmata" as the best documentary movie in a competition held by MetroTV...
Jembatan Airmata is about a journey of an indonesian timorese girl from malang ( she studies there ) and is visiting her mom and dad in east timor....while Jembatan Airmata is a name of a bridge that separates Indonesia and East Timor.....when the east timor was about to proclaim itself....because of blood corelation, many families broke into two....like mom and daugher to east timor and son and father to indonesian...or mom and that to east timor, children to indonesia.....so every year they hv chosen a day when all these ppl come to the bridge to meet each other.......and they must burst in tears everytime they meet.....that's why the bridge is called....Jembatan Airmata = Bridge of Tear
very touching movie.....
Jembatan Airmata is about a journey of an indonesian timorese girl from malang ( she studies there ) and is visiting her mom and dad in east timor....while Jembatan Airmata is a name of a bridge that separates Indonesia and East Timor.....when the east timor was about to proclaim itself....because of blood corelation, many families broke into two....like mom and daugher to east timor and son and father to indonesian...or mom and that to east timor, children to indonesia.....so every year they hv chosen a day when all these ppl come to the bridge to meet each other.......and they must burst in tears everytime they meet.....that's why the bridge is called....Jembatan Airmata = Bridge of Tear
very touching movie.....
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